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But, I've had the good fortune to travel extensively across the 50 states, and one doesn't have to do much work to find barely literate bumpkins in every region of the US.
SC builds every BMW X3, X5 & X6 sold worldwide, not to mention the state-of-the-art Boeing Dreamliner.
Folks generally see what they want to see, and ignore the things that are contrary to their desired perception. It's a widespread behavioral trait...
A lot of designer label stuff is in fact made in less than high skill environments.
I have to say I too would prefer my German car to have a "W" VIN.
I do find it funny that a rabidly conservative RTW place like GA has such a wasteful and inefficient amount of counties with huge layers of public sector workers - and that the locals who will preach personal responsibility and logic will live in poorly built subdivisions light years away from employment centers, and prefer to commute in gas swilling bloatmobiles.
Some of that UAW protecting the bad apples stuff also seems to apply to police unions. Will they ever go RTW?
Anyone who has made money lately with MSFT was able to get in a long time ago, like well into the last century. Hard to compare that to the undeserved explosion in executive wages and compensation.
The offshoring movement, trade surrender, easy consumer debt, corporations becoming people have done far more harm than any unions. Remember why unions were born.
I find a nicely kept old car to be more impressive than a brand new car that required special financing to obtain.
Getting back to Union salaries vs CEO salaries. I see at most a 20 times ratio. Not the sensationalist 380 pushed by the Liberal propaganda sites.
If the Congress and Presidents were not owned by the very wealthy, we would have seen a tax increase on LTCG to match a persons regular tax rate. Then you could have heard Warren Buffett screaming bloody murder.
I think it is safe to say the Unions have created a bigger gap between the haves and have nots than the CEOs. When the servants make more than those paying the bills there is a disconnect from reality. I think this last election made it clear the tax payers are tired of paying over the top salaries and pensions to public employees. Most of which are protected by tight Union contracts and liberal legislators. And that includes the over paid cops and fire fighters.
How the money used to buy those stocks was obtained should be scrutinized in every case. There are sore ethical issues everywhere, if not legitimate legal issues. It begins with the insider trading going on in congress, and goes up from there fast. Fact of the matter remains, the gap is now at a greater point than at any time since before the depression. We do not need a return to a Dickensian social structure.
I don't see anything to make me believe a 20:1 ratio, but even that is out of line. The average CEO (and upper manager, corporate director, elite consultant, etc) is overpaid, far more than the average public sector paper pusher or revenue enforcement officer or UAW hubcap installer. There may be far more of the latter three, but it is the former who buys the legislation (trade policies, domestic and foreign policy standards, etc) that hurt us all.
I see the waning days of the UAW, but I don't see anything being done about the untouchable public sector groups yet.
Look at what's going on in Wisconsin.
The average Fortune 500 CEO makes less than $2 million in salary. Those are the facts. If they decide to sell their company stock they may end up with a bucket of cash in the year they sell. My friend to an IT job with a Dot.com that was expected to do very well. He was given the option to buy 25,000 shares at 25 cents per share. Short story, company went under and he got nothing. What I see in the media is the person that hit the jackpot that year. One year it was Seinfeld who got $225 million. Hope he invested well as that will be his last big payday.
false promise of trickle down theory
What would you call the false promise that high UAW wages extend to others in the area. Looks to me like the masses in Michigan are still struggling to keep food on the table. What did the high UAW wages do for the poor [non-permissible content removed] working at Home Depot? What I see is high wage union people running up the price of homes and rent.
I am not making excuses for the greedy people on top. I am just saying greed has infiltrated our society. The UAW members are not worried about the people making less in the Mercedes plant. They only want more dues coming into their coffers.
It goes back to Reconstruction days and the Georgia Constitution, and it is the most wasteful thing I can think of...we have 159 counties (NY only has 84) which means 159 Superior Courts, Magistrate Courts, Probate Courts, Sheriffs, and on and on...
Anytime someone (like me) brings up the concept of "consolidation" they go nuts, because some of those positions would be eliminated...
I will say here in Newton County, my taxes have dropped due to the decrease in home value and I know county employees who complain that they don't have enough help (meaning they now actually work for their paycheck) due to county layoffs due to the lowered tax revenue...so, it seems that the "system" is working correctly here...lower home values, means less revenue, means less money to pay county employees, means LESS EMPLOYEES, less benefits, less pensions, LESS, LESS, LESS...this is good...
My home taxes dropped from an outrageous $1200 a year down to $800 a year...can anybody even IMAGINE paying property taxes at the over-the-top amount of $1200 a year???...do property taxes even go that high anywhere else in the country???...:):):):):)
Surely thou jesteth. :P There are homes in my zipcode with property tax bills in excess of $10,000. Our county got re-assessed for 2011, and in many cases those assessed values dropped by 50% or more. The house next door to me, for instance, was re-assessed at 54% less than 2010! Mine only dropped about 33%, which surprised me a bit. But then, a few years before when assessments were on the rise, mine didn't go up as quickly, either.
Before that re-assessment, the house next door to me had roughly a $10,000 tax bill. And it's nothing that special. 2500 square foot 4br/3.5ba colonial on 1/2 acre, 2 car garage, and a basement that floods.
http://www.henrygeorge.org/bust.htm
I don't think the high pay of UAW workers has lowed that ratio much. Your use of only direct pay, rather than compensation, lowers it way down. But we all know that the year-after-year pay of executives is more than their pay alone--didn't Ford's exec work for $1 per year?
It's a little like the one party not wanting high earners to have to pay a larger portion of their rich rewards in taxes; they have all kinds of justifications, but the reality is the top folks, including some members of the other party and including the current POTUS are all rich folk. They go around pretending to be ordinary and understand what yourself and I had to do to earn a living, but in reality they are rich folk who need to pay a little more. The rich compensation of executives needs to be lowered down and more pay go to the worker bees--not the high seniority, overpaid UAW folks-- but the real workers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
At the peak of Domestic auto manufacturing the UAW had about 1.5 million members. All making way above the national average. That was in the late 1970s. Just about the time inflation was double digit out of control. Even with the obscene compensation given to the few on top, it did not compare to the disparity between UAW workers and Joe average American. It was the same trickle down economics pushed by Reagan and the GOP in the 1980s. The UAW justified it by telling the workers they were worth that much. Even as late as 1998 when they broke the back of GM with a crippling strike.
It is true the rich are getting richer & given obscene packages. It is not money taken from the middle class. It is from the trade agreements starting with NAFTA that have made it more profitable to buy labor from countries like Mexico, Korea, India and now the giant labor source China. The UAW will go away when the Tax payers quit subsidizing them. GM needs to stand on its own and the UAW can help by matching wages of the imports and transplants or die. Our standard of living will come down as we become just another country in the Global community.
And, with the screaming ultra-high earners paying off the government (both parties) to keep their taxes below anything where they should be, and the lion's share of total taxes paid coming from a shrinking middle-class, there's only one way this can end, unless some significant changes are made pretty soon.
parasiteschildren in school...You'll be happy to know that as a reasonably newly disabled sort I can now get my property taxes frozen here in NJ. Otherwise I'd have had to wait until I turned 65.
Mine are way above yours but not nearly so high as Andre's neighbor.
If anybody here gets Hemmings Classic Car, they run a column in the magazine called "I Was There". It's written by subscribers who "were there" during a particular period in automotive history in the U.S. I have seen several written by guys who when young had summer jobs in various U.S. auto plants and who felt the toll on their bodies and the numbing of their minds, weren't worth the pay. "Made me decide to go to college" is something I've seen repeatedly in those articles.
Of course, those who bemoan the UAW most have never worked in a car plant. Neither have I, nor anyone in my family. I knew one father of a friend who was a tool and die guy at Lordstown in the '70's, but that's it.
The UAW job losses are middle class jobs gone. The others moved out of the country so that the executives can make even more money as they buy their product from China very cheaply also are jobs from the middle class. The one guy just can't figure out that his 40 months hasn't worked to improve the jobs in this country. Even though he gives lip service to our auto UAW laborers, he really doesn't care: it's just all about buying votes for the next election. The UAW is finding themselves the unloved stepchild.
I have to support that they overpriced themselves and played politics till they have lost the war but won certain battles. Nice to have rights and nowhere to pursue them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's the entire system, which consists of individuals selling their influence to the highest bidder.
While I'm no Obama-man, neither am I a Mitt-man. Any cursory review of how Bain Capital operated should make it clear he's not in it to save the "common man".
As long as corporations are people, and unions are treated in the same manner (but they can't get the death penalty like you and me) and unlimited $$$$ can be thrown at government individuals anonymously this is our reality.
It's an unsustainable path, destined to crash and burn at some point.
Say hello to "I pledge allegience to the United States of the Bananna Republic of America"...
Indeed. When you look at total tax burden the states are closer than you might think. A huge amount of stuff has to get paid for the same in all 50 states.
Uh, thanks for the insight...I forgot I was one of those parasites, along with my 2 brothers (one in GA and one in FL)...when we went to public school, we were actually taight things, besides multiculturalism...
Get this...our school had on the sides of its buses "Ardsley Union-Free School District"...really...but this was quite some time ago, like the 1960s and early 70s...
I wonder how it is now... :confuse: :confuse:
No wonder you're so prejudiced against unions. The school district taught that to you.
I assume that was actually an em between words Union and Free instead ofa hyphen. I think it changes the meaning for the name of district.
Ducking and running. :grin
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually, no...I simply had extended dealings with UAW members for 10 years in Detroit (you would be amazed at the hostility expressed by Detroit citizens who were not UAW members, often PO'd at their UAW neighbors), and I also saw what the Teamsters did to my father's company...
As previously stated, the greatest destructive forces on this planet are:
1. earthquakes
2. tsunamis
3. tornados
4. hurricanes
5. labor unions
Where's rocky when I need him???...does he still think that floorsweepers are worth $57/hour (current total cost of UAW member to GM), or has he come down some???... :P
If someone knows where rocky is, tell him I said hello, and give us an update on his job prospects and his ex-wife situation (I hope he found a decent lawyer by now)...
From what I have seen of infrastructure in unincorporated Newton county, indeed $1200 is too much - if you are getting nothing, you should pay nothing. My mother lives in small town WA, pays about $1000/year, but gets sidewalks and lots of roads and buses etc.
My friend now lives in a cardboard and plywood subdivision (one with over 50% occupancy, which is not the entire amount of developments there) south of the county seat in Newton, house sold for 175K when built in 07, it just sold for 60K and IMO is overpriced at that - as the quality is less than reassuring, and my friend is sure someone was bought off in the inspection process.
Our standard of living will also fall as those who buy the laws expand their own fortunes. It's happening now.
My friend in GA took me on a little drive Sunday, we went out and looked at "ghost developments" in his area - subdivisions with streets and slabs, sometimes pretentious entrance gates, sometimes streetlights, sometimes even some houses, but are abandoned. They are EVERYWHERE there, it is crazy. The mirage economy of the oughts. No unions there to blame it on, either :shades:
Spelling not being one of them.....
No, actually that would be typing which is always a downfall for me as well.
I don't believe that union wages benefit anything more than union members, and especially union administrators. I agree 100% that when union leaders speak about wages, their own wages are the key. But that doesn't excuse what the top few who write our commercial and financial laws have been able to get away with.
I live in an area with very little union workforce, and rents/home prices are still high.
What's this WE Jazz???? I have never voted on a CEO pay package. I have voted on annual corporate elections and always vote against the incumbent BOD members.
I think we agree on the benefits of Union membership does NOT trickle down to the poor soul at the bottom of the pile.
On empty houses in a RTW state. I don't think any place can compare to the abandon properties in Detroit. And that can be laid at the feet of the UAW. Time to clear the land and get back to planting crops. Everyone has to eat or they die. Give every unemployed person a plot and some seeds. Or better yet start cooperatives with this as a model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOaS5OtIsbs
The Detroit catastrophe is related to numerous inputs, and I can't see how union workers are part of it - that problem started before union abuses encouraged the loss of jobs from consumers shopping elsewhere and employers moving production work. But the other empty houses disaster, maybe not as deep.
Detroit could be some kind of experimental urban farm - maybe if our corporate sponsored criminal justice system was reformed, and some societal issues changed.
SC has something like the 4th lowest gas tax in the country, and the roads show it clearly. The rationality of fairly taxing to pay for desired services has flown out the window, yet the state legislators can draw retirement pay while still serving in office, sometimes in an amount 3 times higher than regular statehouse pay.
An example: sales tax on a base Kia is $300.00. Sales tax on a New Rolls Royce? The same $300.00. No joke. One would think the voters would see the value in limiting such unfairness in tax policy, but every attempt to raise the sales tax on higher $$$ cars has failed since I have lived in SC, and I've been here for 35 years.
Yet, the folks complaining the loudest about the roads are the same ones wanting to cut taxes. Go figure.
To answer your question more directly, though, there are always carpetbaggers around when money is being thrown around. RTW states aren't any different than anywhere else...
CA has about the highest gas tax and some of the worst roads I have been on.
Sales tax on a new ML350 Bluetec here is about $4800. Plus registration etc.
Income tax is 10%. From what I have seen over the last decade in CA, higher taxes does not equate into better services. Be thankful and buy an expensive car to take advantage of the $300 entry fee. By the way, if I lived in OR, the only fee on a new car is registration, which last I checked was $30. Alaska was the same. I don't think RTW would help in CA. We are too far gone.
PS
We just elected BOZO the Clown, (MoonBeam)
I'm certainly no tax fan, but as a BMW owner, I could afford a bit more in sales tax. Anyone buying a car in excess of $40K ought to be able to swing a few more tax $$$.
Another example: The state owns the school bus system, and the buses are so old and out of date that if it were a privately run bus system, it would be shut down due to unsafe vehicles. There's a big movement now to privatize the school bus system, but there isn't a chance in hell it will provide even what we have now at the same costs, much less lower costs.
One big thing strangling CA is the public employee retirement debt, and to some extent, it's the same here, but not nearly as bad.
The fact that, as a voting population, we allowed the government to create and use a different methodology for keeping its financial books than what business is required to do has come back to haunt us big time.
Business has to account for all future retirement expenses, but government only has to account for current expenditures.
Yet, for the most part, we continue to re-elect the same jokers over and over, and when we do rise to the occasion and replace one of them, it's usually with one with such extreme right or left ideology that any compromise is simply out of the question.
Sucking tax dollars - the UAW is but a drop in the bucket.
I suspect that a lot of the new income tax money from the more prosperous people working at the transplants in the south are subsidizing the entitlements of sinkholes like Detroit.
Now THERE is the wise statement. We are decaying from both above and below. Above, the rich set up systems to reward themselves ever more. Below, the votes of the gullible are bought and paid for with the labor of the middle class. Though the middle class proportion is declining and it is unsustainable. Capitalism works, it's just going to take a bit of time. Lucky for those who timed it well and got free rides. And a lot of the union workers (including the already retired UAW ones) sail into the sunset, while the debris is left behind to pick up.