United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

stever

Michigan is Eastern except for four counties in the way western part of the UP bordering on Wisconsin.

berri

While I feel a bit bad for the Lion's sorry past decade, as long as they have "cheap shots" Suh in the lineup I'll root against them.

marsha7

You know I gotta ask...is the position unionized?

gagrice

I don't think so. He would have said I am sure.

iluvmysephia1

cable TV, telephone and high-speed internet and it will hook-up Nov.5th. Son and I have had to watch the Seahawk games at a Coeur d' Alene bowling alley. Fine except for way too many S.F. 49er fans there. And the cigarette smoke is atrocious, too. Gross. I can't stand the constant smoking going on in there. It took my lungs a couple of days to recover after watching the last Seahawk game in there.

Can't wait ta have high-speed internet again, I've been going to the library for the internet. Yukko! My computer needs to get on my desk and ready for attaching that all-important cable. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve who already knows what he's gonna get but has ta wait until Christmas morning!

Hey, rockylee, come on here and say hello...I haven't cyber-spoken to you in what seems like years now.

gagrice

According to the congressional bean counters, $20 billion is gone for good.

Where did that money go? Mainly, it went to paying off debts owed by GM and Chrysler, and – in an historic distortion of our bankruptcy proceedings – to securing the pensions and livelihoods of UAW workers. It turns out the real debt was that of Mr. Obama to organized labor, which had ponied up some $400 million to help him defeat John McCain.


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2012/10/17/Obamas-Auto-Bailout-Was-Really-- a-Hefty-Union-Payoff.aspx#page1

stever

Wiki cites sources characterizing that outfit as "tycoon-funded" propaganda", billionaire Peterson being one of Nixon's appointees (Commerce Secretary). What timing.

In UAW news, Bob King is out stumping for Obama, but you knew that too I suspect. Not really news, lol.

Next topic?

How about Ford shutting down a Belgium factory costing ~4,500 union jobs? The article isn't clear; lots of those could be white collar jobs.

Ford closes Belgian plant in 2014; 9,500 jobs hit (Yahoo)

gagrice

A 50 year old plant has to be about depreciated out. Time to build big state of the art plants like Ford has in Brazil. If they want to keep up with VW. That is the direction that is needed. Close up inefficient factories. Cut as many union jobs as possible. Time to compete with the rest of the World.

stever

Old plants are a big problem. VW couldn't make a go of it back in the 70s when they purchased a plant in PA from Chrysler.

There's some UAW undertones in this NY Times story and poor sales contributed.

Volkswagen to Shut U.S. Plant

But Wikipedia notes that "the Westmoreland plant was "virtually outdated by the day it opened."

I'm sure a big reason VW chose TN for their new plant was institutional memories of UAW unrest at the PA factory.

fintail

Aren't we competing with the second world with our race to the bottom, already? Pity the rich tax policy, corrupt federal government, growing socio-economic chasm, iffy infrastructure, etc...sounds like we're just abut there :shades: :sick:

gagrice

I would bet VW picked TN over MI, for just that reason. They knew what dealing with feather bedding unions was all about. I would not look for ANY factories being opened in non RTW states unless they are subsidized by the Feds.

stever

I could see Ford or GM doing that.

Plus there's something to say for having a lot of a similar industry located in the same area. Easy for people to interact with and even switch companies, information and tech flows faster, lots of synergy.

robr2

How about Ford shutting down a Belgium factory costing ~4,500 union jobs? The article isn't clear; lots of those could be white collar jobs.

But on a positive note, it's possible that they could move Mondeo production to Flat Rock for export to Europe.

The Mondeo is also manufactured in Portugal, Russia and Vietnam. Genk also build the S-Max and Galaxy. Maybe those will shift to Portugal or Russia.

stever

Still a bit foggy, but Ford isn't shy about flexing their muscle. I guess they are good to go with the UAW for another three years with the October 2011 contract.

"Meanwhile unions were shocked by the pace of the planned cuts.

A spokesman for British union Unite described Ford’s decision to close the Southampton Transit van plant as a betrayal.

“Ford has previously made commitments to the future of Southampton, so we believe this to be a betrayal. There are no decisions on what our next steps will be, we will be guided by our members but we are determined to fight the closures.”

Unions protest, but investors laud Ford Europe's 'bold' action (Detroit Free Press)

roadburner

When BMW decided to build a plant in the US they were looking for a RTW state with no auto manufacturing history. They wanted a non-union workforce that that didn't need to be re-trained to build cars the way BMW wanted them built.

gagrice

I thought all the Transits we get come from Turkey. My guess is they were building them for the EU market in the UK. Then re-evaluated which factory was putting out the best vehicles. People just don't understand the whole World is in dire straits from wasteful socialist programs. Half the population cannot support the other half sitting on their butts.

If the Unions want to build cars let them start a company and build them. The attitude that companies exist to supply jobs is wrong. If I don't make my boss money he will go out of business. If Jose can do a better job for less money I am out of a job.

gagrice

Any company thinking of starting up in the USA should look long and hard at the workforce and their attitude before setting up shop. My guess would be that it is easier to train a young person with no prior experience to build cars the way they want. I cannot imagine any of the foreign auto makers moving into Michigan filled with hardcore UAW members and families. Not to mention Detroit is like a war zone. Cops say travel through Detroit at your own risk.

berri

I think lack of prior union manufacturing experience would be more important than age. Young versus old workers each have their strong and weak points, but if you've done a task for a long time it can be hard to change a person's approach and belief patterns.

fezo

The Transit Connects are made in Turkey. Transits are a different animal I made the same mistake and am still not clear on the transits.

I'm not big on RTW states and and pretty much favor unions but I totally understand why the foreign companies are steering as far as they can from the UAW.

marsha7

" I cannot imagine any of the foreign auto makers moving into Michigan filled with hardcore UAW members and families"

That sums it up...UAW folks are welfare-entitled in their mentality, and yes, they do think that companies are established solely to provide jobs, not profit...plus, there is not one UAW person out there that does not have that "militant striking mentality" that they would rather shut a company down and lose their jobs than face reality of changing work conditions...

No company will ever, or almost never, go to any northern state that has former UAW workers...if I ran the company, as soon as I saw UAW on their resume, I would shred it and tell them to look elsewhere...I would not want a UAW person within 100 miles of a factory down here...

gagrice

Being a lifetime Union member with 37 years in the Teamsters, I do see the value in Unions. And am blessed with a union pension. I can see why companies would go for a RTW state. Unions like the UAW can be over bearing. I believe in the workers getting a fair deal. But in 1998 GM was bleeding red ink when the UAW went on strike and dealt them a horrible blow. I don't think they ever recuperated. If the tax payers had not kicked in $billions to the UAW retirement the retirees would be facing a big cut in their pensions. It was a ponzi scheme based on continual growth. When you go from over 50% market share to less than 20% you are not generating enough to keep the ponzi scheme rolling. That is the fault of the UAW for signing onto such a thing. Yet the tax payers are paying for their screw up. They also hung onto that gold plated HC for retirees. Our Union dumped it in the 1990s. It was not possible to hang onto. So I had to buy my own until I turned 65 and went on MC. That is the difference between a well managed Pension plan and the UAW plan.

robr2

The Transit Connects are made in Turkey. Transits are a different animal I made the same mistake and am still not clear on the transits.

The Transit is the full size van similar to the Sprinter from MB. We will be getting the Transit in North America for the 2014 model year:

gagrice

Will they pull the same trick with the transit as the Transit Connect? Sell as a passenger van, then pull the windows and ship them back to Turkey for the next batch. Will the Transit for the US have a diesel engine to compete with the Sprinter. No Gas Hog Vans wanted.

fezo

THAT is supposed to replace the Econoline? Ugh.

They have Transit Connects is NYC as taxis. Rodae in one once. That's my limit.

berri

Well Gary, the one I remember about the teamsters is that they had a reputation for being more likely to cause physical harm to those who crossed them than the UAW. Didn't rumor also have them involved with Hoffa? The teamster leadership also seemed to live high off of their members retirement funds. I think what hurts unions these days is their featherbedding and work rules, all geared to driving up membership while lowering economic efficiency of the enterprise. Toyota and Honda really don't have that big of a difference in basic compensation packages any more; it's the other stuff! My experience with unions is that they also seem to always be looking for a grievance to justify their existence, which causes a lot of workplace distraction and friction. By the way, this is just as true with highly skilled and educated airline pilots or nurses, as it is with any blue or grey collar profession - skilled or unskilled.

gagrice

All very true Berri. That is why the people that started the Alaska Teamsters local, distanced themselves from the International Teamsters. Our retirement plan is totally separate. We did not even pay into the International until a few years ago. Don't get me wrong we had our thug types in Teamsters local 959. Just don't know of any instance where kneecaps were busted. Jesse Carr that started the Alaska Teamsters was a tough negotiator. And did not live any higher off the hog than the average member. The current boss Rick Boyles worked for us as a summer hire while in college. We have spent many hours drinking and arguing politics. I look for him to go into politics one day.

You don't have to tell me about grievances. As a shop steward I heard them all. The operators wanted to go on strike over the toilet paper not being soft enough.

The worst featherbedding in my time was with the IBEW in Alaska. They did not want anyone coming in working hard and making them look bad. My best friend got run off the job and RCA hired him the next day. Best worker I was ever around. We worked together 37 years. Still talk to him about once a month. The company got screwed big time by the IBEW on that lost employee.

robr2

Will they pull the same trick with the transit as the Transit Connect? Sell as a passenger van, then pull the windows and ship them back to Turkey for the next batch.

No. The full size Transit will be built in Kansas City right next to the F150. BTW, Ford doesn't send those parts back to Turkey. It's cheaper to recycle them and buy new for production.

Will the Transit for the US have a diesel engine to compete with the Sprinter.

Yes it will.

No Gas Hog Vans wanted.

The reason the current E series was not offered with a diesel is that the engineering costs would've been too high for a low profit vehicle. The new Transit is being shared with Europe so the diesel was engineered in from the beginning.

gagrice

So the Transit production moving to Turkey will supply the EU only? Is this an existing factory in KC? I am surprised Ford does not ship the TC windows back to Turkey and claim them as exports.

gagrice

Looks like the USA gets the shaft again. No diesel only gas hog engines.

Powering the front-drive Ford Tourneo Custom will be a trio of 2.2-liter turbodiesel engines. The base 2.2-liter turbodiesel I-4 produces 98 hp while the other engines produce 123 hp and 153 hp. No matter the power output, the engines are mated to a six-speed manual transmission. Ford expects the Tourneo Custom to return roughly 34 mpg combined in European tests.

Ford has no plans to bring the Tourneo Custom to the United States, and instead will be building the larger Transit (which might be called the T-Series) in its Kansas City, Mo. Assembly Plant alongside the F-150. With the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 under the hood, the larger rear-drive Transit will be sold globally and replace both the E-Series Wagon and E-Series Vans in the U.S.

http://wot.motortrend.com/not-for-us-ford-tourneo-custom-van-unveiled-180739.htm- l/0/

stever

As I recall, Jesse Carr had a spread in Palm Springs. I'm guessing the UAW didn't have any members up there.

robr2

So the Transit production moving to Turkey will supply the EU only?

I believe Ford has another plant in the Netherlands that also produces the full size Transit. Southampton UK was only producing about 30K units annually with no room for expansion and Turkey has the capacity to make 220K a year.

Is this an existing factory in KC?

Yes, it's the current F150 plant.

I am surprised Ford does not ship the TC windows back to Turkey and claim them as exports.

Ford doesn't do the conversions - it's done by Wallenius Wilhelmsen Logistics. They manage the vehicle RO-RO operations for the port of Baltimore. Multiple brands come in on their ships and get port prepped by WWL. They do the Transit conversions as well as installing options and repairing vehicles damaged in transit.

IIRC, the glass and seats are cheap enough that the added cost of shipping them back didn't make sense. BTW you can't claim export credits for something you import.

robr2

According to this later article and Ford's press release:

AMSTERDAM, Sept. 6, 2012 – Ford today revealed a new generation of world-class Transit commercial vehicles at its "Go Further" event.

In North America, customers can choose from several engines, including the proven 3.5-litre EcoBoost or a powerful diesel option; each features rear-wheel drive and at least 25 percent better fuel economy than a comparable E-Series. Multiple roof heights and wheelbases will be available. North American Transit vans will be manufactured in Kansas City, alongside the Ford F-150.

Press Release

marsha7

"The worst featherbedding in my time was with the IBEW in Alaska. They did not want anyone coming in working hard and making them look bad"

At this point, wages may not be the biggest union problem, just that they want to keep production low so more "jobs" can be created to "increase" production...plus if window installers cannot be moved to wheel installers, we have too many workers for too few jobs, and more overhead to do the same job...they simply don't get it, and they never will...

gagrice

Actually the Teamster's got run out of AK with their retirement horde of cash. So we bought several 1000 acres in Indian Wells near Palm Springs. We developed that and to date it has netted our retirement over $400 million. He of course had full access to the rental units on the golf course. In fact he was down their on a business trip when he died with a massive heart attack. He had just gotten a position in the International when he died at 59.

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-01-05/news/mn-11493_1_teamsters-union

stever

This obit says he died at his home in Indian Wells. (AP) I bet he did have some sweetheart deal.

Talks about his indictments too.

gagrice

Show me a Union boss without any indictments. When he got tied up with the International, he spent a lot of time down at the Indian Wells resort. There were a few privately owned places. Most belong to the resort. Only one governor was more powerful. That was Jay Hammond. He is the one that said we owned enough real estate in Alaska, take your money elsewhere. There was theories going around that someone in the International did not want him moving up. Maybe Hoffa Jr did him in. Union bosses are all thugs. Look at that lowlife running the Chicago Teacher's Union.

gagrice

'No Red Tape'? New Jersey Turns Away Non-union Relief Crews

WAFF-TV of Hunstville, AL reports:

Crews from Huntsville, as well as Decatur Utilities and Joe Wheeler out of Trinity headed up there this week, but Derrick Moore, one of the Decatur workers, said they were told by crews in New Jersey that they can't do any work there since they're not union employees....

Understandably, Moore said they're frustrated being told "thanks, but no thanks."

With so much at stake--and lives still in danger--it would seem logical to tell special interests to step aside.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sand- y-recovery

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/02/New-Jersey-Turns-Away-Nonunio- n-Relief-Crews

cooterbfd

Gary, was reading on a utility site that they aren't welcome because of spotty safety records.

My buddy pointed out though, if they were smart, they would have acceped their help, broke their crews up, pairing them with a union partner, then have the local bus. mgr's go out and solicit them to join.

It would be a win win of sorts. No bad publicity for turning them away, plus unfettered access to talk to the workers about unionizing.

gagrice

Too bad you weren't in charge to avoid a lot of bad press against unions. Bad safety records was one of our common tactics to organize new units. Unions generally enforce safety laws better.

gagrice

PERRYSBURG -- Perrysburg police arrested four Toledo area men early Friday morning on charges of stealing Mitt Romney campaign signs in Wood and Lucas counties in Northwest Ohio.

The signs were found in a pickup truck owned by Sheet Metal Workers International, Union Local 33 in Parma, according to the police report.

Many of the signs -- some measuring as large as 4 feet by 8 feet -- were believed to have been put up by members of Northwest Ohio Conservative Coalition, said John McAvoy, the group's president.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/4_sheet_metal_works_union_loca.- html#incart_river_default

stever

People of all political stripes have been stealing election signs for eons. If you get tagged for interfering in an election, you could even be looking at a federal offense; i.e. felony charges instead of local misdemeanor charges.

I have a simple solution though. Amend the constitution and outlaw them. :shades:

roadburner

People of all political stripes have been stealing election signs for eons.

In my last election I went with "poly bag" yard signs; they simply slide over the wire wickets and don't need to be stapled like paper signs. One of my friends noticed that a lot of my opponent's signs had been replaced by my signs and we couldn't figure out what was going on. After the election a supporter confessed that he had discovered that my bag signs would slip over my opponent's signs and no one was the wiser.. Sure enough, when I drove around the county picking up my old signs I ran across about a dozen that were shrouding my opponent's signs... :P

gagrice

I have a simple solution though. Amend the constitution and outlaw them.

Unions or political signs? That would be a good thing to toss those four into Federal prison for about 10 years. People would think before they do stupid things.

Stopped to visit a neighbor this morning. We got onto politics and we both noticed the lack of signs for President this year. There are none within a mile or more of my place. The area is about 90% conservative so no need I guess.

imidazol97

>owned by Sheet Metal Workers International

I love the way unions are able to donate time to campaigns, pay others to work (such a picketing or passing out literature), as well as take down the oppositions' signs. The value of all that time as well as money that's not counted as donations to the union's chosen party is very high. The same folks get upset when businesses are able to contribute to PACs to push for something of benefit to the business.

These labor guys were just doing their job for their cause. :grin

gagrice

That is why Prop 32 is getting so much money spent on it. If it passes the Unions will not be able to donate union dues to their PACs without getting signed agreements by the members.
The Unions paying people to campaign and not accounting for it got Moonbeam elected. He did not spend much money. But I was called so many times by Public employees pushing his election. All volunteer campaigning should be considered campaign contributions. If Romney wins in Ohio, it will be backlash against the Unions.

stever

I don't know why people bother, especially for anything other than a local race. Do people really count the signs or know the property owner hosting the sign and that sways them?

I'm more likely to vote against someone putting out a forest of signs, moreso when they are in the ROW, and it doesn't matter if they were erected by union labor or not. :P

I'd post some UAW news links but it's about all political, except for someone illegally tossing geese carcasses in a UAW dumpster in Trenton (it's Canada goose season there).

gagrice

I have never voted based on a sign either. Seems like a waste of resources. Probably why we don't have any in a conservative area like mine. It would seem it is a waste in a UAW stronghold as well. We all know they are programmed to Vote the D column without question.

roadburner

Do people really count the signs or know the property owner hosting the sign and that sways them?

That was the case in my county. Believe me, I'd much rather save the money I spent on signs, but local politics demand them. If you aren't putting out signs you aren't a serious candidate. Stupid? Yes, but you do what you have to do to compete-such as buying a Wrangler in order to defuse an opponent's "Buy American" line of attack...

stever

"[The] push to enshrine collective bargaining rights in the Constitution was roundly defeated in Tuesday’s election, 58 to 42 percent — an embarrassing loss for labor in a state known as a cradle of American unionism."

In Michigan, a Setback for Unions (NY Times)

Not so in California, where the WSJ reports that "Unions also ramped up their turnout machine to kill a ballot initiative that would have barred unions from automatically withholding money from worker paychecks for political spending."

gagrice

The State of CA is the largest employer in the state by far. Most are Union members and can out vote the rest of US. People making minimum wages have this hair brained idea that they will in some way benefit from the Public Employees making mega bucks. I was hoping Prop 32 would pass and rein in the Public Employees stranglehold on CA. Not even close. Stupid CA voters. I get closer and closer every day to getting out of this mess. It is now just for the Rich, Public employees and Welfare recipients. Middle Class private sector is a diminishing percentage.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/maps/ballot-measures/prop/32/

A bunch more layoffs announced today. If I was a small business man I would get out before the government bankrupts me. And they are going to. Both States and Feds.