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I hope that the public will keep assessing whether these labor grabs are things that are fair or not.
Of course California where the public voted themselves tax increases is probably not in that group, Gagrice! Amazing.
Labor unions are able to both campaign via advertising on behalf of their favored candidate and also to directy support paying workers to recruit, register, carry to polls, etc., without responsibility for declaring those monies. Then the people complain about businesses now being able to have speech just as do the SEIU, who both have speech via PACs and speech via manhours and off the cuff payments, such as the picketers in Ohio who said they were being paid to picket ($11/hr--the XXXXXphone lady in Cleveland).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You echo my thoughts completely. The proposition results in CA were pretty much disgusting. Tax increase and protect the unions. Most voters are either union members or too foolish to understand what they are voting for. Or they are on the dole so it makes no difference. Viva big government.
The Department of Labor has announced that new jobless claims rose by a staggering 78,000 in the first week after the election, reaching a seasonally-adjusted total of 439,000. Over the past year, and in the weeks leading up to the election, jobless claims were said to be declining, dipping as low as 339,000, with the media proclaiming that they had reached the "lowest level in more than four years." Now, suddenly, the news seems far less rosy.
From the Department of Labor press release this morning:
In the week ending November 10, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 439,000, an increase of 78,000 from the previous week's revised figure of 361,000. The 4-week moving average was 383,750, an increase of 11,750 from the previous week's revised average of 372,000.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hostess has not made any official announcement beyond the CEO's statement. Any update on liquidation would come on Friday.
Eyewitness News has learned insurance, health and welfare benefits for striking workers have been cancelled.
Workers are protesting a contract imposed by a bankruptcy court. The contract calls for an 8 percent pay cut in addition to health care and pension changes. The bakers union has called the contract "outrageous."
A liquidation would result in some 18,000 workers losing their jobs and an uncertain future for American icons Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder Bread.
http://www.kwch.com/business/kwch-hostess-ceo-gives-striking-workers-thursday-de- adline-20121114,0,2860295.story
Are there any statistics on the amount spent? PA is physically larger, but I would think FL and VA got a lot more of the PAC's and the campaign's monies.
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Nope, because I'm at least one step smarter than a box of rocks.
Anyone who watched what went on about FIAT's saying they would build additional Jeep production in China and then in Italy when that became a hot topic knows that the real positions of Romney and the current admin weren't presented to the public. Instead we got "politics of personal destruction" ads misrepresenting what Romney said and trying to raise the interest of the UAW folks and their kin. Romney recommended having the gov provide financial loans and expediting the bankruptcy--without protecting the UAW and giving GM to the UAW. Many Ohio citizens resent the bailout of a private company. Many Ohio citizens resent having given the UAW additional monies in reality from the loan.
However, many Ohio citizens have no idea what bankruptcy is since they can't use their free cellphone to find out or their food stamp card. Many of them appear to have voted. That's another whole story, but still relates to the UAW and unions working under the table to help "get out the vote Chicago style."
The auto jobs in Ohio are fewer than they were before the bankruptcy, according to an Ohio report, that the main stream media didn't seem to notice. There is no huge pool of new jobs saved by the One.
Also, because of the republican governor and legislature, the budget in Ohio has been balanced, although tediously, and the jobs have come to Ohio slowly because of the governor's open hand to new companies. That has given a sense in Ohio of less desperation than 2 and 3 years ago. So Ohio folks felt the economy is doing better.
And another factor is that the Obama campaign never closed offices--there has been a 5 year campaign. The vote in 2010 to repeal the union-busting Senate Bill 5 passed by a testosterone-laden legislature and governor was successful. That was in a small part due to a well-oiled labor movement with support of lots of reasonable folks. That vote and attitude continued on through the election here, apparently, and along with a grease-the-skids technique of getting people out to vote in the Santa Claus areas of the state, tipped the total number of votes barely in favor of another 4 years.
Yet another factor, which most of you outside Ohio won't realize, is there was an ancillary set of ads on the UAW but actually against their great benefit from your bailout money. That was the problem with Delphi nonunion folks who were not given funding into their Delphi pension fund. So they went into a tax-payer funder fund (by us) to pay their pensions. Many get 1/4, 1/3 to hear them tell it. They have been lobbying DC to "give them" their pension back. Actually the UAW got that money along with the GM salaried employees and they should be the ones making the Delphi workers whole. There are many of those in the Dayton area and another area of Ohio where Delphi plants were located. Those ads were running but were run by the Senate candidate Brown as an attempt to show how he was working to give away MORE taxpayer money tot he Delphi retirees to make up for the money given to the UAW and their pension fund by you generous taxpayers.
But overall, the lack of desperation in the economy here, thanks to Republican Governor Kasick, compared to other states helped the votes for the admin along with the welfare machine. Even Honda announced a few weeks earlier they were adding a couple factories in West Central Ohio--NON UAW. One for engines, IIRC.
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The overfed union guy was saying the company should have cut somewhere else so they could pay the bakers union workers even more. He deserves to have his job shipped to China, my personal opinion. Oblivious.
Anyone think Obama will step in and give taxpayer money to save those union supporters' jobs as he did in the GM case?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My guess is that the fed's involvement will be limited to guaranting pensions and whatever retraining the workers may qualify for. 7,500 jobs are Teamster ones, so most of those drivers should already have CDLs.
Hm, the news says Hostess was already controlled by a group of investment firms. That explains a lot. Probably chasing volume instead of profits so they could bulk up sales and dump the company on the next sucker.
The company has been struggling under the weight of an $860 million debt load and soaring expenses tied to its labor force. Hostess has up to 100,000 creditors, chief among them labor unions and pension funds that represent the company’s employees, according to the Chapter 11 petition filed in United States Bankruptcy Court in New York.
“We remain hopeful that we can reach an agreement that will allow us to amend our labor contracts so that we can emerge from Chapter 11 as a highly competitive company that provides secure jobs for our employees,” the company’s president and chief executive, Brian J. Driscoll, said in a statement. If the company is unable to reach a new labor deal, Hostess said it would ask the bankruptcy court to halt the existing agreement.
While it recorded net revenue of about $2.5 billion in the fiscal year ended May 28, 2011, it posted a $341 million net loss. Burdensome debt and labor costs, compounded by the lingering economic downturn, ultimately prompted the bankruptcy, according to court documents.
About 80 percent of the company’s 19,000 employees belong to a dozen separate unions, most notably the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, and the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, Mr. Driscoll explained in an affidavit attached to the bankruptcy filing.
In particular, Hostess said pension and medical benefits, as well as “restrictive work rules,” were cutting into profit. The company paid about $52 million in workers’ compensation claims in the fiscal year ended May 28, 2011, the affidavit said.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/hostess-files-for-bankruptcy/
Fast forward:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/hostess-brands-says-it-will-liquidate/
Edit: Yes, Sara Lee sold out to Bimbo. Hostess bread IS sold in Mexico under the Bimbo label, though.
During yesterday's morning news show, they interviewed one of the striking Hostess workers. That interview gave cred to a key postulate of journalism: the least qualified representative will always find their way to the reporter's mic. Like pet hair & black suits, red wine & white carpet... they're destined to meet.
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Seems to me the UAW is acting more like the Teamsters in working with the Big 3, even though they may be sounding like the Bakers in their sound bites.
(Maybe we can rehash the election results at some political site? Thanks).
"So far, Big Labor has gotten the brunt of criticism for the demise of Hostess, since the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers ,and Grain Millers union refused, despite warnings from fellow union heads, to return from strike at some 20 facilities nationwide.
Since 1934, Congress has supported tariffs that benefit primarily a few handful of powerful Florida families while forcing US confectioners to pay nearly twice the global market price for sugar.
Th[e] refusal to address tariffs that neither support infant industries nor provide national security as come despite damning reports from the Commerce Department about the impact on US jobs, including the fact that for every sugar job saved by tariffs, three confectionery manufacturing jobs are lost.
Some of those job losses came when candy companies like Fannie May and Brach’s moved the bulk of their manufacturing to Mexico and Kraft relocated a 600-worker Life Savers factory from Michigan to Canada, in order to pay global market prices for sugar."
Did Congress kill the Twinkie? The tariff tale behind the Hostess demise. (Christian Science Monitor)
That is the rule I have lived by and has served me well. In this job market, I would be lucky to make 50% of what I was making when I retired in 2006. I could go back to the Arctic and get my old job back. That just does not appeal at all. If a family of four has a total income of $24k they will qualify for Food Stamps and possibly utility assistance. That is the complaint with WalMart. We are subsidizing their workers. Then you have to look at the overall job market. Not many places are offering jobs above minimum wage which is under $16k per year. Those with decent jobs will be carrying the burden for those with poor paying jobs for the future, is my guess. Don't count on the Buffetts or Romneys to kick in much help.
Can't talk about just cash salary. We need to include the value of the benefits, both current and projected retirement benefits.
That's what was done for the UAW workers. Remember those estimates of $75 per hour that people with no college degrees were making putting on lugnuts?
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My point was that some want to talk about total compensation, along with future compensation potential costs, when it comes to the past discussions of UAW earnings and also of public workers as in the WI and OH discussions with the efforts of the publicans to break the unions.
So why not talk total compensation package here. I hear that part of the bankruptcy court's decreases were the 8% in salary along with drastic reductions in side benefits for the unions at Hostess.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is reminiscent of the 1998 GM strike by the UAW. The company was bleeding red ink and the UAW did not care. That is the difference between a good union and a bad one. When we took a huge cut it was a result of oil prices falling and the oil companies cutting back. Our company serviced them and the work was not there. We laid off half the crew and cut hours on the guys that were left. WE DID NOT GO ON STRIKE. Sometimes you just bite the bullet.
More pertinent, what was the average Hostess Teamster salary vs a Baker's salary? If driving a route truck paid a lot better, no wonder the Bakers let them twist in the wind.
I could see the second tier UAW hires doing something similar.
1. They took a second significant cut to pay
2. Their benefits package was significantly reduced, so total compensation package was pretty negatively affected.
3. Top management richly rewarded themselves while screwing over the workers.
The third one can make smart people become emotional. It is really a big driver in all of the pilot problems at American Airlines and these employees are highly educated (primarily degrees in the sciences, engineering and business), as well as mostly former military officers. They want the Dallas leadership out because of it and that is the impetus behind the US Air merger rally there.
The more I've looked into this, the more I understand the workers bailing. Eventually the US job market will turn and all of the management ugliness during this recession will likely be properly rewarded in time. US leadership is far too short sighted about things, as well as increasingly self absorbed and selfish. Goes for both business and government IMO.
Not sure your point? Are you saying someone with 20+ years experience in High Tech should not make double what an entry level job should pay? My dad took a job at Nabisco for minimum wage in 1952. He was on the line making Oreos the first day. We are not talking highly trained or skilled employees here. They were probably over paid at $24k per year.
As far as management bonuses etc. I think the CEO and execs that did that were dumped in the first bankruptcy, by the equity firm that took over management. If the bakers are so smart why didn't take over the company while it was in bankruptcy? Or offer to do so instead of striking?
I was reading that lame brain Krugman a bit ago. He has the same workers paradise ideology as I see expressed here. All those people that worked for Ford 90 years ago would not have built cars if not for Henry Ford. For every 100,000 workers we may produce one person capable of building a viable company. And I am being optimistic with that figure.
But I can still buy Ring Dings, made by Drake Bakery, and Devil Dogs, if I can find them, and Ring Dings were always better than Twinkies...
That said, it looks like the judge called BS and they will be back mediating.
The article I read was that the executives were to be paid bonuses instead of salary during the restructuring. At some point, the bonuses were converted to salary without the court's approval.
Gary, I was asking about the average salary - there are (were) plenty of Teamsters doing all sorts of clerical and entry level jobs back in the day. As I recall, they had a lot of Anchorage city employees on the payroll and who knows what else.
There's not much difference in skill level needed to drive a route truck or stock shelves or bake up some Ding Dongs.
I agree that driving a bread truck stocking shelves is not what I would consider a skilled trade, anymore than baking a twinkie. The point is the Teamsters realized they were not going to have a job if they did not accept the contract. Now if the court says to mediate I would say the monkey is back on the Union's shoulders. It sounds like the judge gave the Union a last chance to go back to work by tomorrow.
"Many people, myself included, have serious questions as to the logic behind this strike," said Judge Robert Drain, who heard the case in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York in White Plains, N.Y. "Not to have gone through that step leaves a huge question mark in this case."
The mediation talks are set to take place Tuesday, with the liquidation hearing set to resume on Wednesday if an agreement isn't reached. Jeff Freund, an attorney for the bakers union, said any guess as to how the talks will go would be "purely speculative."
http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2012/11/19/judge-orders-hostess-to-mediat- - e-with-union
If I was at Hostess making lousy money as a Baker, I wouldn't hesitate to hose my Teamster "brothers and sisters" and vote against further concessions. Their jobs are no more difficult than mine; maybe less so since they are out in the field away from the bosses' eyes.
Now think of the animosity growing between the UAW old guys and new hires; tier ones or whatever you call them.
Not a good analogy. The UAW workers are doing the same job for half the wage with no chance of catching the older workers. And probably more capable than the worn out workers to boot.
All we know is the Unions took an 8% cut in pay. Wanna bet they don't get 50% as much on unemployment? When we took our hit in the 1980s the cooks and housekeepers took BIGGER hits in their union contracts. Within 5 years they were all gone. A few came back working for non union contractors. This was in 1990 when the Union hire agreement with the Oil Companies expired. House keepers that were making $18 per hour were making $10 per hour. They are still not making much. Many cannot speak English. Mostly Filipinos. These Union people have to come to the realization that there are more workers than entry level jobs. I would bet the bakers were making more than VW is paying their new hires making cars. Our standard of living is going down hill and I don't see any changes. It reminds me of the 1950s when things were really tough. Unless you had a UAW job.
Another factor to look at in the executive overpay which has fluorished since the 80s, is take a look at the union executives, their pay and their percent of funding in their pension fund. They, along with the company execs, will usually have taken very good care of themselves. I recall a few years back hearing about one union where the worker's fund was low, let's say 40% in funding, while the union leader's separate pension fund was at 103%.
Workers have unions to protect themselves from the abuse of the company execs, and their own union leaders are abusing the money as well. Maybe the workers need different, new unions and different setups where the union leaders are in the same funds and pay scales as the workers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-12/hostess-closing-bakeries-as-workers-won- -t-cross-lines.html
But the unions and democrats definitely don't want anything like a Bain takeover where someone tries to get the company back to operating condition. :P After spending all those billions of PAC and some foreign donations to villify a Bain company, I'm very much against having any kind of resurrection. After hearing all about how awful it is that GM was given some taxpayer cash (and the UAW given even more in ownership), I don't want any kind of taxpayer money here.
And we especially don't want any kind of change where the company moves production to another country. I saw enough ads about how that never happens with Jeep and GM, living in Ohio during the recent unpleasantness called a campaign, that I don't want to see that.
Of course, Obama used Carlyle, a Bain-like company, to save a refinery in link title New Jersey.
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The Federal-Postal Coalition -- a group representing more than two dozen federal employee unions -- pleaded with Congress on Monday to spare their members in any deal related to the "fiscal cliff."
Federal workers, the coalition wrote in a letter, have contributed more than their fair share toward reducing the debt and are the only group that has been targeted so heavily.
“Federal and postal employees and their families are hardworking, middle-class Americans who are struggling during these tough times just like other Americans,” the group wrote. “No other group has been asked to financially contribute the way they have, and it is time our nation’s leaders found other ways to reduce the deficit than continually taking from those who have dedicated their lives to public service.”
According to the coalition, federal employees have funded $60 billion in budget savings in 2011 and 2012 as a result of their ongoing pay freeze and an additional $28 billion in savings will be derived from the freeze extension through March 2013.
http://nationaljournal.com/congress-legacy/federal-workers-to-congress-leave-us-- out-of-deficit-deal-20121120