United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited November 2012
    >federal employees have funded $60 billion in budget savings in 2011 and 2012 as a result of their ongoing pay freeze and an additional $28 billion in savings will be derived from the freeze extension through March 2013.

    REality check needed. Just as the UAW needs to pay back some of the money they were given in the bankruptcy to pay for Delphi workers' pensions, they also need to revamp the pay scale and put everyone on the same scale--lower the overpaid union seniors' salaries. The Govt and GM can't afford them.

    In the quote, those "savings" are imaginary just like Osama's savings through what we wouldn't spend on the "wars" over the next 10 years when he was claiming to save money. Those savings on the unions' parts are from lessening the increases built into the spending as normal progressions. What we need are actual freezes. The cost of their benefits went up even if the actual cash salaries stayed the same. We need decreases in salaries from those folks--and Congress can cut their own benefits and salaries as well. TEA.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We need decreases in salaries from those folks--and Congress can cut their own benefits and salaries as well. TEA.


    At least 10% so the Hostess twinkies don't feel cheated.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Fisrt of all the UAW represented employees haven't turned over their pensions in the Delphi belly up. It was the salaried employees who had their pensions turned over to the PBGC. During the good years, since their lot was a little better, they declined on many occasions collective bargaining representation. They now rue the day they did so. One has to recall that GM purchased EDS for millions and sold it for billion; purchased Huges aka Direct TV, which gave them On Star, was also bought for millions and sold for billions. The UAW made sure their memberships interest were looked after. They made sure their pension was fully funded. So when GM did belly up, the UAW pension plan, the United States government and Canadian gov't purchased it. Since Wall Street wasn't liquid, not even Bain Capital was in a position to buy these assets. However, you find that shot gun marriages of the banking system and throwing the TARP over the rest is just fine? My friend, this is central planning and thereby SOCIALISM. A form for welfare for the wealthy PERIOD. Then they go on to sell more shares to repay the TARP and thereby dilute the present shareholder value. This reeks of the Wall Street welfare entitlement mentality and the welfare for the rich which we have seen since the Reagan curse. It's fine to use taxpayers money to buy these wealthy folks stadiums/arenas? Does Jerry Jones need a billion plus stadium to match his ego? Admission is the first step to recovery. Supply side/trickle down economics failed to produce the promised prosperity and Keynes was right all along. The middle class and not this 1% is what fuels this economy. I'm just stating the obvious and I knew the Myth ticket was doomed all along. Only the kool aid drinking FAUX NEWS followers were out of reality. They spent billions and won how many swing states?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    "In granting Hostess’s motion, Judge Robert D. Drain of the Federal Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York cited the need for a quick and orderly shuttering of the company to avoid letting its assets molder."

    (NY Times)

    Yeah, I know it has little to do with the topic, but how can a judge not know that Twinkies last decades without moldering? :P

    Enjoy watching Washington beat the Cowboys tomorrow in Jerry's fancy digs. :D
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Believe it or not, Twinkies actually do have a shelf life of something like 30 days. Just saw something on local TV about using Twinkies with your turkey dinner. Essentially, remove the creme filling and baste turkey with it, then break up the rest of the Twinkies and mix in with the stuffing...OK, I'm not getting into this! I'm sure Twinkies will be back, but I suspect Hostess wonder bread and private label bread and bake goods business is the more attractive portion of the business financially. The actual baking plants are said to tend to be old and inefficient.

    On your other note, I was actually in Dallas a few years ago when they imploded the original Dallas Cowboys stadium. From the outside at least, the new stadium seems quite the spectacle.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Just won't be Thanksgiving without Twinkies.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I suspect truckloads of Teamsters will be looking for those Turkey bakers to do batting practice on. I say "Feed em Twinkies"

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    image
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    I'm not into twinkies and they are far from ideal as nutrition. Obamacare should address the slamming down a box of twinkies and chasing it down with a ding dong American diet. However, they do make superior pies to the Mrs Baird's (owned by the Mexican concern of Bimbo) here in Dallas. It's acceptable to do a weekly pie? I'm a Bears/Cubs fan from childhood. I rather watch my BAMA boys play, (the SEC is real football) we have ties to the Tide and find the University light years from the Wallace stigma. They amazed me the first time and have continued to do so. Racism is not an issue in Tuscaloosa and it's a world class campus.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    ...in college and the military I believe you chase those Twinkies down with a beer!

    If you're a Bears and Cubs fan, I guess I understand your "Bama " support - gotta have some "winner" in the portfolio.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    lol, I just posted over on Buying American Cars about Twinkies and Thanksgiving and now this. I'll stick to my cornbread dressing though, thank you.

    Funny, the reason that Twinkies do stay fresh is supposedly due to the airtight wrapping, not any preservatives in the recipe.

    Read a story last week about an overweight nutrition professor in Kansas who went on a Twinkie diet and lost 27 pounds in two months. His point was that losing weight was all about the calories. His fellow nutritionists were appalled naturally, (and kicked him out of the union?). (CNN)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You're Alma Mater Rutgers joining the Big 10 should bring some greater national recognition to it, while the Big 10 is probably looking for broadcasting bucks. Academically it will be a good fit I think.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    One has to wonder if the Wal-Martization of this nation is a good thing? It's no secret that suppliers have to travel to Bentonville AK to bring their wares to market, if it isn't made in China. Wal-Mart is the number one killer of small business and not Obama as some want you to think. Then Wal-Mart pressures their suppliers on pricing and the suppliers are taking action/cutting corners to produce an inferior product. While Aldi's does the opposite, fewer choices, however they opt to have a superior generic appearing brand. The quality issue is what were seeing here. Hostess is more costly and still sells. Mrs Baird is cheaper and also sells. Hence, I see it as my doing my shopping at Central Market and others opting and or forced by budget to go more frugal. Much like fast food from Chipotles carries a higher cost to say a Taco Bell? Chipotles is fresh and better healthwise, while Taco Bell isn't at that level. So it may go back to when Obama said cheap food isn't cheap if your burdened with higher medical cost in the future? Chipotles and Panera are growing at an astonishing pace if you track their stock.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'll stick to my cornbread dressing though, thank you.

    What is it with Cornbread Dressing?? They used to substitute that at camp for REAL DRESSING.

    As for Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder bread. I expect the names to be sold and truckloads coming up from Mexico within 2 months of the sale. Sugar and Labor are cheaper down there. Most of the factories will sit moldering like so many other factories in the USA. Kind of sad but inevitable.
    The Hostess Unions will be lucky to get 10 cents on the dollar for their pension funds. You would think these unions would know better than invest in the company they work for. Think GM, Enron etc.

    And yes management is a big factor. They should have liquidated in 2004 when they filed for Chapter 11. If they were losing money in boom years, expecting to make money in a recession is poor management. Don't forget the Feds played a big role in the demise of Hostess and other US bakeries and candy companies, protecting a sugar producers with high tariffs on foreign sugar.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited November 2012
    By the way Dude, best not talk up 'Bama with your Longhorn and Aggies neighbors! I'd have liked to see Texas link up with the Pac 10 or Big 10 personally, but I understand their financial motivation to stay put.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Have not tried Chipotle Mexican Grill. We have several in San Diego. I have not been to a Taco Bell in decades. The only worse Mexican food is Taco Johns. We have 5 mom and pop Mexican places in our little village. We eat at one of them at least a couple times a week. No Chain Mexican food I have eaten is even close to as good. And the cost at our local places is about half what the Chains charge.

    As far as healthy, eating out is not likely the healthiest choice under the best of conditions. If my taxes are going to support someone else's HC, I want to dictate what they eat, drink and smoke. Should be my right as benefactor. Also their exercise regimen.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    And if my taxes subsidize someone's investments, I want to dictate where those monies go. If my taxes subsidize other nations (some drawn up out of thin air), I want to dictate how they behave.

    Good luck with that,
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The only fly in that ointment though is that a lot of Hostess revenues came from bread and private label which requires a more local plant to service accounts. I'd think Twinkies would just be ancillary to that, but maybe they'll truck 'em up from south of the border. Don't know if another baking company has sufficient capacity in the various local markets to meet the new wonder bread and private label volume. There is also some talk of a buyout group taking on Hostess, but I'm a bit skeptical because of the many older, less efficient factories. I'm thinking they wouldn't be required to recognize the former unions, but that may be a local and state thing at each place. Of course, you've got to have the teamsters let trucks in and out!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    Wal-Martization of this nation is a good thing?

    There's good and bad. Had higher prices at the mom&pop chains in the old days and you couldn't easily return an item.

    Hostess did make a lot of special order breads for restaurant chains and school districts. You know they are scrambling at the moment. Even if the bakery buildings are dated, someone will want to crank them up if only to supply those markets.

    Cornbread dressing at the camps? Probably because most of the cooks were either Southern or Texans/Okies. Good stuff (so long as it's made with real cornbread without any flour or sugar in it). ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    As long as we are allowed country of origin labels so we can decide what to buy and what not to buy...

    The anti-union crowd probably doesn't like that, goes against capitalism and free trade and other myths.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    As long as we are allowed country of origin labels so we can decide what to buy and what not to buy...

    Where have you been Fintail? COOL are taboo says the WTO. We do not have the right in the USA to force country of origin labels in the USA. We are NOW owned by the UN and it's bunch of lackeys in the WTO.

    Try to find where your juice comes from on the bottle. Unless it says Made in USA it is probably from China. We are headed into the OWO at high speed.

    I am NOT anti Union in the private sector. I think the UAW has screwed US and the workers big time. Just like everything else there are good unions that understand you cannot get blood out of a turnip. And there are the Bakers at Hostess with their heads up their behinds.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    private label which requires a more local plant to service accounts.

    That is very true. We like San Luis Sourdough bread. I don't know if it was baked in a Hostess bakery or not. Kind of hard to tell about bread as the shelves were getting empty with Thanksgiving buyers. We have enough in the freezer for a couple weeks. Worse comes to worse the wife has a good sourdough starter in the refrigerator.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Spanish unions agreed to a series of measures that will lower Renault's labor costs and result in greater production flexibility, it said. These include expanding employees' working days to holidays, allowing plants to run seven days a week, slowing annual wage increases below inflation and—perhaps most importantly—allowing Renault to hire new workers on a limited 18-month contract and at a salary that is less than three quarters of some current employees, a Renault spokeswoman said."

    Renault to Expand Hiring in Spain (Wall St. Journal)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is the new reality WORLD WIDE. We may not like it. That is irrelevant to the facts. When it comes to labor there is a glut of low to medium skilled labor and cookie cutter college degrees. If I went into my field here in San Diego I would be lucky to make even half of what I was making when I retired in 2006. Not to mention the fact the job has changed a lot since I retired. The advances in communications is crazy.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And if my taxes subsidize someone's investments, I want to dictate where those monies go. If my taxes subsidize other nations (some drawn up out of thin air), I want to dictate how they behave.

    ...and if my taxes subsidize the permanently unemployed lower class in this country, I should be able to make some decisions on what those people should be trying to accomplish for them to continue getting that aid, too...

    The unions have it the best - work a while and then ride their pensions into the sunset...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Tlong you said it well. We had a welfare plan in place to encourage people to find work. This congress and administration have destroyed incentive with expanded welfare. Why work when you can sit on the couch and watch Oprah, eating whatever snacks are still made, collecting more in welfare than many people are making at a job?

    Much of the waste Fintail is ranting about is directly going to over paid government employees protected by public employee unions.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited November 2012
    >Why work when you can sit on the couch and watch Oprah, eating whatever snacks are still made, collecting more in welfare than many people are making at a job?

    How long were people unemployed able to collect unemployment checks at full rate? 2 years?

    Along with the nice welfare setups these enabled lots of folks to either work on the side paid in cash and still collect from the unemployment funds OR they just sat and watched Oprah and JZ. There seem to be few if any in the way of checks on what people are doing while on unemployment or collecting SNAP monies or whatever cute euphemism is the current one for welfare.

    The UAW high seniority folks are the ones who have made out like bandits. Others have been hired on at low rates and then were the first cut in past decades. Then the reorganization still gave the overpaid UAW high seniority folks full pay with a little trimming on benefits BUT no 8% cut in pay such as the bakers' union at Hostess was needing to take.

    Essentially the UAW made out like bandits in the Obama-managed reorganization because they are a UNION, the constituency that the party loves and who can donate huge amounts of undercover support in funds and manhours during an election, at the same time they are whining about PACs on the other side being able to put money in to campaign with their own freedom of speech. That will be an effort for repeal after card check is implemented.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How long were people unemployed able to collect unemployment checks at full rate? 2 years?

    While not at full pay, two years of paid vacation makes it difficult to get back into the routine of working 40 hours per week. In CA you could get $450 per week on unemployment. It would be crazy to take a job that pays less than that. I know people that collected the full two years before getting motivated to find a job. It also gave folks a lot of time to research all the welfare options. Once you get on one program another is revealed. CA has about 12% of the USA population. They are the proud sponsors of 40% of all the welfare cases. When Ahnold proposed cuts to CA welfare programs he pushed the state back toward Jerry Brown and his bunch. As long as those on welfare are allowed to vote, the cash register drawer will be wide open.

    Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger on Friday unveiled plans to plug California’s budget deficit by slashing billions of dollars worth of funding for services designed to help the state’s poor.

    Schwarzenegger’s budget proposals would see spending cuts of 12.4 billion dollars and include the elimination of California’s welfare-to-work program and virtually all child care for low income families.

    “California no longer has low-hanging fruits,” Schwarzenegger said in Sacramento. “We have to take the ladder away from the tree and shake the whole tree. We must make very difficult decisions.”
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That will be an effort for repeal after card check is implemented.

    If CC gets pushed through which I doubt, with some sanity in the House, non RTW states will hear that sucking sound of jobs leaving their states. Indiana has implemented RTW and been the recipients of good paying jobs from companies like Caterpillar.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....COOL are taboo says the WTO"

    Gary, would that preclude the US from mandating that all products that are made here carry a "made in USA" label, thereby "mandating" that if it doesn't say "made in USA" on the label, then it's not made here?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Global trade isn't bad per se, it's the fairness and level playing field aspect to it where I think the US is getting the short stick. Our country seems to think we have to bend over backwards for others. It's further complicated by the fact that many giant US companies get a fair share of their sales and profits offshore. People may argue that trade wars were a key cause of the 1930's depression, and they were, but that isn't the same as demanding parity.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think putting "Made in USA" is one very positive way to protect US from less than safe products. My understanding of the WTO ruling was labeling food products as to country of origin. I know I have looked at several different name brand juice products and most DO NOT specify COO.

    U.S. country-of-origin labeling provisions violate global trade law and unfairly curb agricultural commerce, World Trade Organization judges said as they upheld an earlier ruling backing Canada and Mexico.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-29/wto-backs-ruling-against-u-dot-s-dot- -country-of-origin-labeling
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "...... In CA you could get $450 per week on unemployment. It would be crazy to take a job that pays less than that."

    Gary, that's the equivalent of $11.25/hr, based on a 40 hr week. Also, to get the full $450, you had to have been making quite a bit more than that, as unemployment is what 67-80% or thereabouts of your previous gross pay.

    But I ask, where were the jobs that were paying more than that, and would they guarantee more than a couple months work??

    Last yr there was an article in the USA Today talking about the people on unemployment. They mentioned one guy in the midwest who lost a professional job (computer programming???) making about $80K/yr. After a few months, he took a job at a private security company making $10-12/hr, because pride got the best of him. After about 6-8 months there, he got laid off again. Now, he goes for unemployment, and the amount he can collect is less than HALF what he was getting, because of the minimal wage he was getting!!!! He was beside himself, because by "doing the right thing" and going back to work, he essentially screwed himself.

    I'm not saying that there aren't those who lack ambition, or those who are discouraged enough to think they can just screw the system for 2 yrs because they feel they were wronged by the economy and "The Man", but really, human nature would ask why accept less than the "social saftey net" offers.

    And why don't employers who complain "they can't find anybody" to work offering up more scratch for the work??
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Happy Thanksgiving to all on Edmunds!!!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Global trade isn't bad per se, it's the fairness and level playing field aspect to it where I think the US is getting the short stick.

    I agree. No way we can compete with China making many products such as iPhones. Smartphones have to be one of our largest imports, pushing our trade imbalance. The One Worlders probably feel it is only fair after more than 100 years of US World dominance.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And why don't employers who complain "they can't find anybody" to work offering up more scratch for the work??

    You bring up some good points. I don't think it is the money as much as the skill levels that account for the 3 million unfilled jobs in the USA.

    I can see where you could shoot yourself in the foot by taking a low paying job that does not last long. The two people I knew that took the full two years were both making right at $100k. One for HP the other at Qualcomm. They are both back working one making $20 per hour in a Drs. office, the other back at QC making the big bucks.

    Don't forget the guy in Boston they interviewed that was enjoying his Pd vacation. Taking care of his young daughter while his wife worked. And he collected UI.

    What worries me is the surge in disability claims due to lack of JOBS. These are people that we will be supporting FOREVER. They drop out of the employment lines and onto the welfare roles.

    You ask where are the JOBS. They are low paying service jobs for the most part. Our economy is in very bad shape if you do not have a good job or retirement. I am not optimistic about good paying jobs returning to the US. No good reason to open a factory here unless you get government subsidies. That cannot go on forever.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    edited November 2012
    And you should also be able to make some decisions about the political and corporate forces who combined to create that unemployed underclass to begin with. These people didn't come out of thin air. They are in many ways a product of our "free trade" lie.

    The US is being derailed much more by continued failed trickle down dreams and foreign control of expensive defense and foreign policy ideals than it is by a welfare state that still comes up short compared to other first world nations.

    I'd say the CEO class and lucky sperm club have it even better than unions - live a virtual fairytale life with not much input required, no accountability, and no vilification by an older generation who made theirs during unrepeatable economic expansion and could never make what they have now with identical skills and credentials, and now tell others to go pound sand...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    It's the public sector union control of so many economic facets that prevents welfare recipients from working on labor intensive infrastructure projects. The worst part is, IMO, many who are jobless would be fine with getting out and doing this work. But they can't.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Maybe our military should just send a few missiles to WTO HQ and disband the entity once and for all. Really, what good has it done?
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    2 things.

    They say there is always a surge in SSDI claims during a downturn. Again, not to justify, but "lets stick it to the man"????

    The other thing is that those low paying service jobs are below the safety net for the average full time worker. Those are the "second jobs" that people would get or the ones gotten by the "non bread winner".

    Someday those comapnies will understand that if they don't bring the jobs back, nobody will have any money to buy what they import. Hopefully, it's not too late by then.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >Last yr there was an article in the USA Today talking about the people on unemployment. They mentioned one guy in the midwest who lost a professional job (computer programming???) making about $80K/yr. After a few months, he took a job at a private security company making $10-12/hr, because pride got the best of him. After about 6-8 months there, he got laid off again. Now, he goes for unemployment, and the amount he can collect is less than HALF what he was getting, because of the minimal wage he was getting!!!! He was beside himself, because by "doing the right thing" and going back to work, he essentially screwed himself.

    I thought the admin had taken care of all of these things with their "fixes during the last 4 years. I'm surprised they hadn't taken care of all those problematic details in the welfare state system while they were fixing the GM/C bailouts. There has certainly been enough money passed around and the UAW was a big, big beneficiary along with GM salaried.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    by a welfare state that still comes up short compared to other first world nations.

    That is just NOT true. We spend more per capita on welfare and education than any other 1st World country.

    I'd say the CEO class and lucky sperm club have it even better than unions

    How is it any different in say Germany. They allow family businesses to be passed down tax free.

    The assessment of real property and encumbrances for inheritance tax purposes in Germany is more complicated. Business assets are subject to special rules which may allow heirs, who continue a business, to reduce or even avoid inheritance tax liability.

    http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=21353

    Being born with a silver spoon would include being born into a UAW family. Until the UAW killed the golden goose, those high paying low skilled jobs were handed down from father to son.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    "And why don't employers who complain "they can't find anybody" to work offering up more scratch for the work?? "

    Or realizing their demands are too much. I work in a corporate nightmare managed by idiots. I see some relatively entry level positions suggesting graduate degrees now - while the boomer aged senior leadership doesn't have nearly similar credentials or any knowledge gained by them. Academic inflation by our should be hanged corporate leadership class certainly isn't helping anything.

    I have a friend who got laid off from a public sector job, collected UI for 11 months, then took a similar job in a much hailed "right to work"/low amenity state for significantly less money. He claimed his new pay was not significantly more than unemployment, and when moving expenses were counted, he lost money in the escapade. He recently found a lower job than his original, and moved back to the first world, happy to do so, as the lower position still paid more than the second job.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    edited November 2012
    I don't know...You must be counting corporate welfare and monies diverted to preferred industries (military-industrial-profit based war etc) as part of that "welfare". Healthcare is added to that too, right? Of course our bloated failed healthcare system spends more, and gets less.

    And education? Figured how so, by who, when?

    I'd say continuing a business rather than simply receiving undeserved wealth through birth are different worlds. Did you read that article?

    And when it comes down to it, historically, those children born into UAW families have been the ones who go off and die in wars so legitimate silver spoons can profit.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It's the public sector union control of so many economic facets that prevents welfare recipients from working on labor intensive infrastructure projects.

    That is why the Stimulus was a joke. When they specified Union only it left out many jobless non union contractors. It opened the door for shady subcontractors to hire illegals to do the actual work at substandard wages. While filling the pockets of the big union contractors.

    Maybe our military should just send a few missiles to WTO HQ and disband the entity once and for all. Really, what good has it done?

    Absolutely agree, the UN and WTO are not our friends.

    Someday those comapnies will understand that if they don't bring the jobs back, nobody will have any money to buy what they import. Hopefully, it's not too late by then.

    I think it is already too late for 100s of 1000s of people that are falling between the cracks. If you are 18 to 35 single without kids, you are screwed if mom and pop cannot give you a couch to sleep on and meals. We have examples of the results of free unfair trade around the World and our leaders did nothing. Now the jobs are gone and no one is willing to spend the money to bring them back. Why should they, states like CA are horrible places to do business on just about every level.

    while the boomer aged senior leadership doesn't have nearly similar credentials or any knowledge gained by them.

    They should soon be gone. I saw that coming in the late 1960s when they required a college degree for low level management at Bell. Thankfully I got out before the whole Bell system imploded and into a much better working environment. The guys I worked with at Bell got dumped early and live in sub poverty on SS and a meager pension.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    > They are low paying service jobs for the most part. Our economy is in very bad shape if you do not have a good job or retirement.

    Most high-paying jobs have been replaced by low-paying jobs during the last 4 years. The high salary jobs went to other countries. The jobs touted as being "made" here are low pay and part time.

    Not a good prognosis unless you're one of the UAW people who actually still has a job. Most of the low pay new employees, like a neighbor and his wife, from 15 years ago and more recently are long cut out leaving the high pay, high seniority UAW. Need to just cut the wages including benefits, short and long term, by 20% to make GM competitive.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Figured how so, by who, when?

    Percentage of GDP for education is NOT per capita. Last study I saw was comparing Germany to Los Angeles City Schools. Germany spends $12k per student per year through High School. LA spends $25k per student per year. Over twice spent and a much worse level of education. Money wasted.

    And when it comes down to it, historically, those children born into UAW families have been the ones who go off and die in wars so legitimate silver spoons can profit.

    When you look at the small percentage of prima donna UAW workers, I don't buy it. For every UAW worker at the peak how many hundreds of non union workers were in the USA workforce, making about half the wages? Their kids went and died or came back to a low paying job in a meat packing plant or bakery. My step dad was making minimum wage at Nabisco in the 1950s when the UAW workers were knocking down the big bucks, inflating the cost of cars for the rest of US.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    But when purchasing power and other local conditions are examined, a % of GDP is a more accurate number. Devalued currency and local corruption make raw dollar comparisons tough. Germany also doesn't have a generation of young people handicapped by student loan debt, millions handicapped by medical debt, ridiculous salaried vs hourly labor tensions, hatred of the 47% by those who think they "built it", and so on.

    Compared to the amount of people in the living wage working class/ middle class and the stability of those incomes, along with prices of housing, healthcare, education etc, were cars 55 years ago really price inflated? I don't see it that way.

    Either way, it is those in one untouchable irresponsible prima donna group who profit when those in another are fooled into dying in wars - and that group isn't people who bolt fenders onto Chevies.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The US is being derailed much more by continued failed trickle down dreams and foreign control of expensive defense and foreign policy ideals than it is by a welfare state that still comes up short compared to other first world nations.

    IMHO the biggest thing failing us is the ability of big money to buy off our politiicians, diminishing the role of the individual in government. And our wonderful Supreme Court has supported that situation.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    > of big money to buy off our politiicians

    Are you saying the current Admin was reelected by the big money behind them? Some was foreign donations..., but are you talking about the huge PAC monies? Huge money was spent in Ohio by PACs and one biggest was Harry Reid's PAC (why does a senator have his own PAC?) to support Sherrod Brown on behalf of the UAW interests in Ohio. Their goal is card check.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Are you saying the current Admin was reelected by the big money behind them? Some was foreign donations..

    both sides, and at all levels of government -- but more at higher levels (federal, state)
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