One of those sneaky, non-obvious ones - San Diego county. :shades:
But the UAW Local 506 there is "downtown" (the county is pretty big). Not to be confused with UAW Local 2865 in La Jolla, part of the 13,000 member UC Student Workers Union.
Never thought much about it, but the full name is the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America.
Still not sure how they fit casino workers in that designation - guess they harvest dollars from billfolds.
I live in a building with a Comcast monopoly, I know what you mean. For years I had no problem with the company, but ran into some recent billing issues that had me irritated. It makes mobile phones look downright ethical and free.
Corporations are people too, right?
Seattle is kind of a mess, driving and parking there is a pain, transit can be iffy, and crime can be an issue in many areas. I have no desire to live there. However, if Comquack is against their car-hating money-wasting greenie weenie mayor, that makes me support him.
Pretty much the only unions here are public sector (which IMO includes Boeing) and a few odd groups.
>. For years I had no problem with the company, but ran into some recent billing issues that had me irritated. It makes mobile phones look downright ethical and free.
I'll trade you for our Time-Warner.
Actually I own some Comcast shares and they don't respond to shareholders any more than customers.
Might just be a contract negotiation ploy, but Boeing is threatening to move more production to South Carolina. They really don't have any place to expand to though, at least not in a timely manner.
Oh I don't know. Lots of corporations got rich during FDRs terms from war business. A survey of 238 presidential scholars put FDR as #1, but you know, he served at a time of America's greatest struggles and greatest triumphs. Timing has a lot to do with how a President fares in office. History does kinda make the man. Ditto someone like Churchill, who was ditched by the voters immediately after the war ended.
Certainly FDR's term was also a time of emerging union power. I imagine that most blue collar folks would vote for him.
FDR was a friend of the PRIVATE SECTOR UNIONS, Not the Public Sector!
“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”
That wasn’t Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul, or Ronald Reagan talking. That was George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955. Government unions are unremarkable today, but the labor movement once thought the idea absurd.
The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”
it's not so clear cut as that. FDRs stance has to be viewed in context of the times. Also, this opinion about FDR is based on one letter he wrote. That's about it. FDR seemed to have no problem with the TVA union, for instance. And he did not comment on the entire "public sector".
Of course, Federal workers still can't bargain over wages and benefits, only working conditions.
Washington Post ran a short piece this past Sunday about internet speeds and costs. Considering both factors, Seoul, South Korea lands in the number one spot. I think the best US city was Chattanooga, TN, and it something like 15th.
Can't find that article on the web site, or else I would post a link.
it's not so clear cut as that. FDRs stance has to be viewed in context of the times.
FDR's position was Public employees should NEVER go on strike. Wonder what he would think of the BART Union pukes tying up the transportation system in SF? Truman was as pro labor as any President. When the railroad workers went on strike after WW2 he threatened to draft them all into the military and force them back to work.
Nobody knows what his position was through his presidency. Everything on the subject is culled from one letter written in the 30s. He simply did not elaborate on this subject in public.
Then how about if I elaborate. Get rid of all Public employee Unions. They are raping the tax payers. They are over paid compared to the private sector. And the state legislature in CA gives them the keys to the bank vault. CA could eliminate half its employees and still be wasting money. It isn't that hard to break the Union if you have anyone with half brain running the show. I watched it happen in Alaska with the local native government in Barrow. The mechanics and MTC people signed cards had an election and became Teamsters. Only problem is the Borough government would not negotiate in good faith. Basically told the NLRB to buzz off. After two years and it looked like they could end up in court. They fired all of them and contracted to another company to do the work. The guys filed suits but could not afford to go against the high priced Native Corporation lawyers. If the PE Unions were negotiating against legislators that had the best interest of the tax payers in mind. It would be OK. That just does not happen in CA that often.
Then how about if I elaborate. Get rid of all Public employee Unions. They are raping the tax payers. They are over paid compared to the private sector.
Absolutely.
There used to be a concept of civil "servants". Where it was an honor to serve the constituents. Nowadays they are overpaid and entitled - just like the UAW was.
In CA, not only do they get guaranteed pensions (something that few non-government employees get any more), but when the pension fund underperforms the taxpayers are on the hook. Yes, the same taxpayers who might have been decimated in their 401Ks and IRAs during the recession, are now also forced to guarantee the retirements of the entitled civil servants.
In private industry, this can't happen, as ultimately if the costs are too high the parent company goes belly up (a la GM). But in the private sector, it's an endless open-ended entitlement with the taxpayers footing the bills.
Tlong, I am glad I am not alone here in CA. Though we have too many low information voters in the state to ever turn the ship around in time. Thankfully I can afford to get out if need be. Most of my wife's family are not so fortunate. Though her oldest brother retired in WA, and her youngest sister lives in CO.
One nephew is lucky enough to be on the city dole. He hates it because of the waste in the police department. He is their IT guy. I told him you will not likely get a better job in the private sector. He works for the city with the highest paid retiree in the CALPers system at $600k+ per year.
>if the costs are too high the parent company goes belly up (a la GM).
Bad example using GM's restructuring under this administration as an example of the company's failure hurting the retirement plan of the workers. The UAW made out like bandits in the restructuring as did their pensions, bloated larger than a fat cat donor at a State Dinner.
The one I'm in is doing quite well, thank you very much.
I would be your most ardent ally if you suggested we split the state in two, just south of Santa Barbara, which city would be the designated DMZ and no fly zone.
Seems fair enough. We'd get advanced tech, progressive government, some auto industry, most finance, most of the arts, hemp cash crop for taxation, surfing, and best universities and medical facilities, you'd get the US Navy and Hollywood for defense and amusement and a great succulent garden.
you do get the Petersen Auto Museum, however, which I sadly had to give over.
"Bad example using GM's restructuring under this administration as an example of the company's failure hurting the retirement plan of the workers."
GM's restrucutring was an anomaly. How many companies do you know has the government bail 'em out to the tune of $35 billion?
OK, then how 'bout Bethlehem Steel? Company folded, retirement plan was underfunded, and most retirees took a significant reduction in benefits when the plan was taken over by the PBGC.
The one I'm in is doing quite well, thank you very much.
I'm not seeing you comment on the civil servant unions problem. I don't see how that's doing quite well unless you have a very short term view. Massively underfunded pension plans is just like the Feds running on deficits, it's just more hidden.
And if you take NorCal, don't forget we have the entire entertainment industry in the south. No more movies or TV for you!
OK, then how 'bout Bethlehem Steel? Company folded, retirement plan was underfunded, and most retirees took a significant reduction in benefits when the plan was taken over by the PBGC.
Most current airline pilots have also taken massive pension haircuts during their airlines' Chapter 11 journeys.
Yet the civil servants are fat and happy with their pensions guaranteed by the decimated taxpayers. And at the same time they (teachers) don't want to be "measured" for performance, because it's not fair!
I'm very happy with my civil servants (for the most part). I don't care if they have a nice retirement as long as they do their job and don't bankrupt the city I live in. The cops are great here, the FD does their job, everyone's nice to you in City Hall, the librarians are tremendously efficient---I got no gripes....I suppose we could all beat the typical scapegoat, the Post Office, but they don't get taxpayer money.
I don't care if they have a nice retirement as long as they do their job and don't bankrupt the city I live in.
Your turn is coming. The state cannot kick the can down the road forever like the Feds. CALPers has been in critical condition for over 5 years. One good year does not fix the problem. Right today after a good run it is at least $90 billion underfunded and depending on their continued returns could be as much as $170 billion underfunded. The tax payers are on the hook for that shortfall. Time to cut their plush benefits and wages. At least the top 50% of public employees.
How about you get Los Angeles. Most of the far Northern counties in the state want out as well. They would like to join with the unhappy Southern Oregon counties. Most people I know are tired of the big cities electing losers that screw over the rural counties. A great example is the recent VA election. Where a couple counties elected the governor.
NO PUBLIC EMPLOYEE SHOULD BE GETTING OVER $100,000 per year retirement. We are pushing close to 15,000 of the leeches in CA.
Back in 2005, some 1,841 retirees pulled down more than $100,000 a year in pension checks from the California Public Employees Retirement System.
By 2009, this so-called "$100K club" had more than tripled, to 6,133 members.
And by the end of 2012, membership more than doubled yet again, to 14,763, according to data from CalPERS.
That's up 700 percent in less than a decade. The rate of inflation over the same period was 38 percent.
If the economy hadn't collapsed this wouldn't be a problem. The housing bubble is the cause of all of it. No revenue from business, no money to pay for things. it's not overspending, it's under-funding. The budget was undermined.
Housing prices are back close to 2007 levels in most parts of the USA, including CA. We still have extreme unemployment levels. Far lower wages (a result of illegal cash workers). The contractors using illegal workers have decimated the trade unions in CA. My nephew is a Union Glazing contractor. He only gets Federal jobs now. Went from running a crew of 30 to just himself and one other union worker. Their pension fund is so far underfunded they are trying to extort money from the contractors to get it back above the critical stage. They want him to pony up over $1 million. He doesn't have a pot to P*** in let alone a million bucks. They are threatening his personal pension he has paid into for 25 years. The country is a mess and I blame NAFTA and uncontrolled illegal alien workers as much as the housing bubble. Which was a concerted effort from both sleazy parties.
I don't know, some of the public sector retirement packages are just insane. If a private sector worker can't manage the same ROI with the same investment, it's overspending - as it is subsidized by those who don't reap the same rewards.
Those brave hardworking built-it-themselves business owners, no doubt. Funny how there's no real penalty for employing those without documentation, almost like laws are bought.
"Vallejo’s current long-term obligation to the California Public Employees Retirement System is $195 million, Rob Stout, city finance director, told the council. He said $100 million of the obligation is from investment losses in the stock market crash."
In addition----"city revenue has plunged during a deep economic recession, dropping 30 percent since the bankruptcy "
it's not merely about "overspending". It's about the economy. Do the math here. 100 million investment losses and about 30 million revenue losses.
If the economy hadn't collapsed this wouldn't be a problem. The housing bubble is the cause of all of it. No revenue from business, no money to pay for things. it's not overspending, it's under-funding. The budget was undermined.
I don't agree with this. Budgets are undermined every time we go through an economic cycle. To predicate success of a retirement system on never having those cycles is irresponsible.
Wait about 10-15 years. There will be PLENTY of demolition and repair work for skilled contractors when those poor-constructed monstrosities built by "undocumented workers" start falling apart at the seams.
Funny how there's no real penalty for employing those without documentation, almost like laws are bought.
IMO, it should not be up to the employers to determine if someone applying for a job is here legally or not. That's supposed to be the fed's duty - protect the borders and all that.
VERY few (if any) of the financial gurus predicted the enormity of housing bubble collapse---not Cramer, (he really blew it) not the big dogs on Wall St, not the gov.
This wasn't a cycle, this was a total disaster unlike anything we've seen since '29.
You also can't set boomtown benefits for a chosen group of people and think they can be sustained for eternity, especially during an economic bubble as was experienced in the last decade.
It also looks like that finance "Director" (I wonder what kind of pension he'll get) made some overly risky choices.
Yep people like myself didn't buy in, as I could see it was too hot. Just about 7 years after the initial slowdown, and I can still buy a place cheaper now than then - and I am in an area that seems to be in a bubble all over again.
Good luck paying the taxes to support that. It would take a literal wall.
It's still virtually impossible to make a perfect fake of a social security card. If employers want tax breaks and coddling, they can put some skin in the game. When it comes down to it, as the socio-economic chasm continues to expand, some reap undeserved profits from illegal labor. They should pay a price for it.
VERY few (if any) of the financial gurus predicted the enormity of housing bubble collapse---not Cramer, (he really blew it) not the big dogs on Wall St, not the gov.
This wasn't a cycle, this was a total disaster unlike anything we've seen since '29.
I think the point is that the retirement system is unsustainable regardless. It pays extremely overgnerous benefits to people who should have been civil servants. These benefits are way beyond what most people receive in the private sector, and would bankrupt any normal for-profit company, but with government there are no decent controls.
The CALPERS pension fund has been underfunded even in good times; it just got much worse due to this severe recession. The CALSTRS (Teacher's retirement fund) was talking about its underfunding in the mid-2000's, a relative boom time. So the recession is not the appropriate scapegoat, it only made things worse.
You don't think stapled-together tyvek and pressboard chateaus will stand the test of time?
The buildings are only as good as the building codes enforced by the Cities and counties. We pay about $45,000 in San Diego for a residential building permit. They inspect every segment of the work done. Shouldn't the local government share in the responsibility for those structures?
And I have posted many times. In CA the idiots in our legislature banned the use of E-Verify to keep the illegals working here. Even though most are working in the cash society our government has forced on US. Momma has the kids that supply the welfare and poppa works for cash to keep the welfare rolling in. Then they file for EIC for dozens of non existent dependents. It is the American way.
"Yep people like myself didn't buy in, as I could see it was too hot. Just about 7 years after the initial slowdown, and I can still buy a place cheaper now than then - and I am in an area that seems to be in a bubble all over again. "
We bought our house in '07 and we refinanced late last year. I was shocked that our house appraised for more than we paid for it. Granted, it was an appraisal for the local bank, but I did get a copy of the appraisal and it used similar comps. I didn't see any obvious areas where they took liberties to boost the value. Plus, I had enough equity in the house that I didn't need a top dollar appraisal.
It was when the budget matched reality. They thought they had the revenue, obviously. Same with the current national deficit. The gov't ended up not taking in enough money. When a government approves a budget, it balances out on paper.
Now of course we don't know how speculative some of these expected revenues were--I'm sure some were based on the assumption that risky investments were going to pay off.
But, bottom line, whether it is WAshington DC, Vallejo, Detroit or your grandma, a budget means your outlays match your receipts when you "pass" the budget.
The DEBT, as most of you know, is the accumulated deficits year to year, and the gov't has been running those up since Clinton left office.
So the longer the recession, the bigger the deficit, because the less the revenue.
Which is why cutting taxes and cutting spending in a recession is close to lunacy and has never worked in human history----but....BUT....it *might* someday.
What the D3 did was cut quality out of the car to make up for the deficit incurred by their labor contracts. Also a form of lunacy.
But, bottom line, whether it is WAshington DC, Vallejo, Detroit or your grandma, a budget means your outlays match your receipts when you "pass" the budget.
I think the last time that happened was 1998 for the Feds. We need adult leadership in CA and DC. Moonbeam was playing loose and easy with his projections for CA. We are BROKE and no longer able to borrow money at a reasonable rate. They could not get anyone to loan them money for the HSRail project. One more downturn in the Stockmarket and it is curtains for CALPers and California.
Comments
But the UAW Local 506 there is "downtown" (the county is pretty big). Not to be confused with UAW Local 2865 in La Jolla, part of the 13,000 member UC Student Workers Union.
Never thought much about it, but the full name is the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America.
Still not sure how they fit casino workers in that designation - guess they harvest dollars from billfolds.
Corporations are people too, right?
Seattle is kind of a mess, driving and parking there is a pain, transit can be iffy, and crime can be an issue in many areas. I have no desire to live there. However, if Comquack is against their car-hating money-wasting greenie weenie mayor, that makes me support him.
Pretty much the only unions here are public sector (which IMO includes Boeing) and a few odd groups.
I'll trade you for our Time-Warner.
Actually I own some Comcast shares and they don't respond to shareholders any more than customers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Certainly FDR's term was also a time of emerging union power. I imagine that most blue collar folks would vote for him.
No question about that.
“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”
That wasn’t Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul, or Ronald Reagan talking. That was George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955. Government unions are unremarkable today, but the labor movement once thought the idea absurd.
The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/02/18/the-first-blow-against-public-em- ployees/fdr-warned-us-about-public-sector-unions
Of course, Federal workers still can't bargain over wages and benefits, only working conditions.
Can't find that article on the web site, or else I would post a link.
One thing about moving to the UP from Boise, my available speed jumped up to 50 Mbps. I think Seoul had that ten years ago though.
FDR's position was Public employees should NEVER go on strike. Wonder what he would think of the BART Union pukes tying up the transportation system in SF? Truman was as pro labor as any President. When the railroad workers went on strike after WW2 he threatened to draft them all into the military and force them back to work.
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5137/
Absolutely.
There used to be a concept of civil "servants". Where it was an honor to serve the constituents. Nowadays they are overpaid and entitled - just like the UAW was.
In CA, not only do they get guaranteed pensions (something that few non-government employees get any more), but when the pension fund underperforms the taxpayers are on the hook. Yes, the same taxpayers who might have been decimated in their 401Ks and IRAs during the recession, are now also forced to guarantee the retirements of the entitled civil servants.
In private industry, this can't happen, as ultimately if the costs are too high the parent company goes belly up (a la GM). But in the private sector, it's an endless open-ended entitlement with the taxpayers footing the bills.
One nephew is lucky enough to be on the city dole. He hates it because of the waste in the police department. He is their IT guy. I told him you will not likely get a better job in the private sector. He works for the city with the highest paid retiree in the CALPers system at $600k+ per year.
Bad example using GM's restructuring under this administration as an example of the company's failure hurting the retirement plan of the workers. The UAW made out like bandits in the restructuring as did their pensions, bloated larger than a fat cat donor at a State Dinner.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The one I'm in is doing quite well, thank you very much.
I would be your most ardent ally if you suggested we split the state in two, just south of Santa Barbara, which city would be the designated DMZ and no fly zone.
Seems fair enough. We'd get advanced tech, progressive government, some auto industry, most finance, most of the arts, hemp cash crop for taxation, surfing, and best universities and medical facilities, you'd get the US Navy and Hollywood for defense and amusement and a great succulent garden.
you do get the Petersen Auto Museum, however, which I sadly had to give over.
GM's restrucutring was an anomaly. How many companies do you know has the government bail 'em out to the tune of $35 billion?
OK, then how 'bout Bethlehem Steel? Company folded, retirement plan was underfunded, and most retirees took a significant reduction in benefits when the plan was taken over by the PBGC.
it might be best to look at selective bail-outs as a form of "triage".
I'm not seeing you comment on the civil servant unions problem. I don't see how that's doing quite well unless you have a very short term view. Massively underfunded pension plans is just like the Feds running on deficits, it's just more hidden.
And if you take NorCal, don't forget we have the entire entertainment industry in the south. No more movies or TV for you!
Most current airline pilots have also taken massive pension haircuts during their airlines' Chapter 11 journeys.
Yet the civil servants are fat and happy with their pensions guaranteed by the decimated taxpayers. And at the same time they (teachers) don't want to be "measured" for performance, because it's not fair!
Your turn is coming. The state cannot kick the can down the road forever like the Feds. CALPers has been in critical condition for over 5 years. One good year does not fix the problem. Right today after a good run it is at least $90 billion underfunded and depending on their continued returns could be as much as $170 billion underfunded. The tax payers are on the hook for that shortfall. Time to cut their plush benefits and wages. At least the top 50% of public employees.
How about you get Los Angeles. Most of the far Northern counties in the state want out as well. They would like to join with the unhappy Southern Oregon counties. Most people I know are tired of the big cities electing losers that screw over the rural counties. A great example is the recent VA election. Where a couple counties elected the governor.
NO PUBLIC EMPLOYEE SHOULD BE GETTING OVER $100,000 per year retirement. We are pushing close to 15,000 of the leeches in CA.
Back in 2005, some 1,841 retirees pulled down more than $100,000 a year in pension checks from the California Public Employees Retirement System.
By 2009, this so-called "$100K club" had more than tripled, to 6,133 members.
And by the end of 2012, membership more than doubled yet again, to 14,763, according to data from CalPERS.
That's up 700 percent in less than a decade. The rate of inflation over the same period was 38 percent.
http://www.ocregister.com/taxdollars/city-515888-100k-club.html
Besides, your nephew wouldn't do the work they do, let's face it.
I wonder if any similar workers are in the UAW.
A guy I know from high school retired from Vallejo Fire a couple years ago(you know, that 1st city to go broke).
He's on that list, making 140K this year, with COLA applied going forward.
DANG!
I shoulda fought fires...
In addition----"city revenue has plunged during a deep economic recession, dropping 30 percent since the bankruptcy "
it's not merely about "overspending". It's about the economy. Do the math here. 100 million investment losses and about 30 million revenue losses.
You can't pay boomtown wages in a bust economy.
I don't agree with this. Budgets are undermined every time we go through an economic cycle. To predicate success of a retirement system on never having those cycles is irresponsible.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
IMO, it should not be up to the employers to determine if someone applying for a job is here legally or not. That's supposed to be the fed's duty - protect the borders and all that.
And neither can you pay boomtown retirement benefits when the tax revenues dry up, because of that same bust economy.
This wasn't a cycle, this was a total disaster unlike anything we've seen since '29.
It also looks like that finance "Director" (I wonder what kind of pension he'll get) made some overly risky choices.
It's still virtually impossible to make a perfect fake of a social security card. If employers want tax breaks and coddling, they can put some skin in the game. When it comes down to it, as the socio-economic chasm continues to expand, some reap undeserved profits from illegal labor. They should pay a price for it.
But they are built by a "free market", they must be good!
This wasn't a cycle, this was a total disaster unlike anything we've seen since '29.
I think the point is that the retirement system is unsustainable regardless. It pays extremely overgnerous benefits to people who should have been civil servants. These benefits are way beyond what most people receive in the private sector, and would bankrupt any normal for-profit company, but with government there are no decent controls.
The CALPERS pension fund has been underfunded even in good times; it just got much worse due to this severe recession. The CALSTRS (Teacher's retirement fund) was talking about its underfunding in the mid-2000's, a relative boom time. So the recession is not the appropriate scapegoat, it only made things worse.
The buildings are only as good as the building codes enforced by the Cities and counties. We pay about $45,000 in San Diego for a residential building permit. They inspect every segment of the work done. Shouldn't the local government share in the responsibility for those structures?
And I have posted many times. In CA the idiots in our legislature banned the use of E-Verify to keep the illegals working here. Even though most are working in the cash society our government has forced on US. Momma has the kids that supply the welfare and poppa works for cash to keep the welfare rolling in. Then they file for EIC for dozens of non existent dependents. It is the American way.
We bought our house in '07 and we refinanced late last year. I was shocked that our house appraised for more than we paid for it. Granted, it was an appraisal for the local bank, but I did get a copy of the appraisal and it used similar comps. I didn't see any obvious areas where they took liberties to boost the value. Plus, I had enough equity in the house that I didn't need a top dollar appraisal.
Critics seems to always pick the extreme outliers and expect us to regard them as the norm.
Are you suggesting that this is a reasonable and sustainable system?
Now of course we don't know how speculative some of these expected revenues were--I'm sure some were based on the assumption that risky investments were going to pay off.
But, bottom line, whether it is WAshington DC, Vallejo, Detroit or your grandma, a budget means your outlays match your receipts when you "pass" the budget.
The DEBT, as most of you know, is the accumulated deficits year to year, and the gov't has been running those up since Clinton left office.
So the longer the recession, the bigger the deficit, because the less the revenue.
Which is why cutting taxes and cutting spending in a recession is close to lunacy and has never worked in human history----but....BUT....it *might* someday.
What the D3 did was cut quality out of the car to make up for the deficit incurred by their labor contracts. Also a form of lunacy.
I think the last time that happened was 1998 for the Feds. We need adult leadership in CA and DC. Moonbeam was playing loose and easy with his projections for CA. We are BROKE and no longer able to borrow money at a reasonable rate. They could not get anyone to loan them money for the HSRail project. One more downturn in the Stockmarket and it is curtains for CALPers and California.
On that we agree. So why did we bail out the schmucks that screwed the US car buyers?