Or to think how it would look if there was no financing at all. Of course, subprime loans aren't anything new. Maybe just publicized more now due to the unpunished housing debacle.
No place is perfect, but some seem to have more pros than cons. Sometimes I wonder what is seen in my backyard, which has been experiencing steady in-migration for at least a couple decades now. It must be the dull mild climate, recreation-scenery, and localized employment areas. It aint perfect, but it beats some places.
I wonder if they have indulged in any trickle down nonsense. They do have a pretty thick social safety net, and mandated lower wage benefits that would make many Americans choke.
One thing for sure...California is doing much better as a one-party system than it did as a two-party brawl.
Must be nice living in the only bit of the state that is prospering due to our HORRIBLE Legislature and Governor. Although you have a bankrupt city Vallejo, caused by the PE Unions. I just need to buy some rose colored glasses or move out while I can still afford to. I see too many people lined up at our Food Bank each week to believe our state is not in the toilet. And that is in an Upscale neighborhood. I would hate living down with the masses of poverty we have.
From the map fintail posted we are near the bottom of the states on most factors. 38th out of 50 states is not a statistic to brag about.
I wonder if they have indulged in any trickle down nonsense. They do have a pretty thick social safety net, and mandated lower wage benefits that would make many Americans choke.
We have no trickle down. The Limo Liberals in the state distribute it to those that will vote for them. And we have a fraud filled welfare safety net here. Of course we have the highest population of welfare recipients. Many states have better assistance programs for those impacted by our HORRIBLE economy. Bottom line why pull the wagon for low pay when you can get in and ride with more cash in your pocket.
No trickle down? Nationally, that's what the US is all about. The past 30 years of tax changes are trickle down. It's obvious to see who has reaped the benefit, via the misguided and dangerous belief that things, well, trickle down. Class warfare is now real, and it is obvious who declared war on who - and who won.
If CA is so bad (and no doubt it is the further south you go), pull up stakes and move to a low wage/low amenity/low regulation area that you seem to desire. You've already got 1.5 of the 3 right at home. I bet you won't be any happier.
Class warfare is now real, and it is obvious who declared war on who - and who won.
The class warfare is not a simple one. It is state government against small businesses. It is the Rich and Poor against the middle class private sector. It is the environmentalist against common sense solutions. It is Union workers vs non union workers. It is liberalism against conservatism.
I personally am in a sweet spot. Decent income and a home I can afford. It is what is going on around me that is troublesome. Uncontrolled taxes, regulations and the masses being incited by the government to attack those that are more successful than they are. Finding the perfect location is not possible. If I should find it I will not let anyone know. I don't want it ruined by too many people moving there.
Ah, wrong analysis there, IMO. Vallejo went bankrupt due to the real estate collapse. It was one heavily-mortaged out city, and a corrupt one at that. It has nothing to do with the present legislature or the unions IMO. It was all about speculation and bad business deals.
I think the CAL legislature is doing great--an example for the country. Very progressive legislation, problems being addressed and solved.
The country will have to follow California, as we will dominate economically, population-wise, agriculturally, and in intellectual property. California is the future of America, like it or not.
Vallejo went bankrupt due to the real estate collapse. It was one heavily-mortaged out city, and a corrupt one at that. It has nothing to do with the present legislature or the unions IMO. It was all about speculation and bad business deals.
Yes, but San Jose and San Diego voters decide to cut pensions. That's not the fault of real estate I don't think. Seems to me the union pensions ARE an issue in the state. The public employee unions are a monopoly, which is why they're getting away with their level of benefits. Any private company with exorbitant unions has either failed or moved offshore - or the unions have found a way to acquiesce to save themselves.
I think bashing unions is just another form of scapegoating. When Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs make billions using taxpayer money (or tax benefits decreasing revenue), or when other business types game the system in their favor, well, they get a magazine cover, or become the envy of the community, or they steal all they can and get off scot-free. But when the UAW or the BART union figures out a way to game the system at make $60,000 building a car or $80,000 driving a train, everyone is in an uproar.
The cars work, the trains don't crash, so what is everyone's problem here?
Everyone operates in their own self-interest. There's no one to blame.
I don't know if I can see it so glibly. The worst part is "liberalism against conservatism", when those in the US who claim to represent those ideals don't seem to really practice them. I see a lot of "conservative" areas that are pretty dead, and many that aren't, are linked to government spending or resource extraction. Looks like pure old conservatism doesn't work. Just as pure liberalism creates an unsustainable mess like southern CA. If we want to examine who is vs who, it might also be corporations vs the masses. They are holding unparalleled sums of capital while receiving breaks for offshoring and otherwise betraying the place that built them. The gap is greater than at any time since before the depression, and it aint all from unions and liberalism.
No doubt there can be too much regulation, too much taxes, etc. But there also reaches a point there there can be not enough. How, and at what cost "success" is established might need to be examined, too.
I think bashing unions is just another form of scapegoating. When Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs make billions using taxpayer money (or tax benefits decreasing revenue), or when other business types game the system in their favor, well, they get a magazine cover, or become the envy of the community, or they steal all they can and get off scot-free. But when the UAW or the BART union figures out a way to game the system at make $60,000 building a car or $80,000 driving a train, everyone is in an uproar.
Well it's scapegoating in the sense that it's becoming more irrelevant, as private-sector unions are not a big issue anymore. The difference between a Steve Jobs and a UAW is that Steve revolutionized multiple industries, created the most valuable company in the world, and changed the lives of hundreds of millions of people for the better. Conversely, the UAW (along with the inept D3 management), helped nearly destroy an industry and cost the US billions of dollars. I'd say Steve warrants a positive magazine cover more than the UAW.
Everyone operates in their own self-interest. There's no one to blame.
So why does Obama and the Democrats continue to blame Bush for everything? He did sign off on the biggest Christmas present ever given to an incoming President to spend with TARP. Which he was able to Pay back the UAW and other campaign contributors with.
Bashing the UAW is justified, as part of the problem with the Domestic automakers inability to compete without government handouts.
Bashing the PE Unions is my right as a tax payer being raped by most of them in this state. I know you don't agree. I don't think you understand what the public employees are doing to the cities and state with 1000s of retirees knocking down $100,000 plus per year. Then you think the worst legislature in the USA is a good one. We are totally and diametrically opposed in our ideologies. Never will agree with each other.
Just as a question. If our progressive legislature is so great, why did they use substandard Chinese materials to rebuild the Oakland Bay bridge? That killed a lot of American jobs.
Conversely, the UAW (along with the inept D3 management), helped nearly destroy an industry and cost the US billions of dollars. I'd say Steve warrants a positive magazine cover more than the UAW.
Absolutely, making the UAW some sort of labor heros is crazy. Yes they stood up to repressive corporate bullies in the 1930s. By the 1950s & 60s the UAW and several other unions became the bullies. They did as much as anything to make off shoring a good option. The UAW leaders were too stupid to realize after NAFTA that setting up shop in Mexico was the logical way to get around their competition killing work rules. I don't think UAW wages were enough to push the D3 to Mexico and elsewhere. It was Federal Pension rules and old agreements on pensions with gold plated HC plans that was draining the coffers. The media never talks about the $29 billion we donated to the UAW pension funds.
Union members in general have a false sense of entitlement. The last few years we have seen that spread to the general population. They believe if they don't have a job it is the tax payers duty to support them. Like it is some RIGHT in the Constitution. Or that every job should pay a living wage.
Bit of hyperbole tonight eh? Don't you remember rioting in the streets in the 50's (Little Rock), 60's (Chicago), 70's (Boston), yada yada?
I see gangs of teens attacking people randomly and killing them in our cities. That is more than enough bloodshed for me. Drive by shootings are common place. The people are divided worse than ever in this country. Rioting is squashed by tank driving swat teams in our cities. That stops the riots before they get started. Could be why the Homeland Security is stocking up on Ammo. We drove past so many new complexes on this trip built by Homeland security. Some of the yards had 100s of armored vehicles. Maybe the Feds are just buying hundreds of useless vehicles to keep the UAW working.
TV and Sports are for sure the Opiate of the Masses. How about those that live on the street? I don't think you can watch TV or blog on an Obamaphone. That is the unknown until you have a glitch like last week when the EBT cards quit working. There were mini riots over that.
Same site says that Bob King is going to be replaced . Looks like King's term is up in nine months and he's too old to run again. So I guess he's trying to make the South his legacy.
I know UAW cheerleaders like Rocky hate Bob King. He won't be missed by many.
I don't see that as a big deal with Ford having a UAW plant there. Not sure the Card Check thing is actually legal. Another one of Obama's executive orders that goes against existing laws. At least the workers have a choice in KY. Unlike non RTW states.
Speaking of KY, we just looked at a beautiful 10 acres with a 5 acre stocked lake. A great ranch style home. It may be our new location to get away from the repressive prison CA is becoming. KY has some great benefits for retired people that CA does not have.
you said: 'The difference between a Steve Jobs and a UAW is that Steve revolutionized multiple industries, created the most valuable company in the world, and changed the lives of hundreds of millions of people for the better. '
That's a highly arguable statement, to say the least. To my mind, that's just another way of painting one dog white and the other green and saying they are two different species of animal.
There's nothing to say that without the UAW, your very nice Chevrolet might have performed like a Trabant, nor can you say that an iPad is equivalent to the discovery of penicillin.
I also think that too many Americans confuse what politicians and business leaders or union leaders SAY and what they actually DO. If we paid more attention to what they actually DO, we'd have a better sense of where they actually sit on the spectrum of left/right, or conservative/liberal or visionary/greedhead.
In my opinion, when the smoke and BS are all cleared away, most people operate as centrist and most people operate in their own interests, or the interests of their family and business intimates.
You can't be screaming that union labor is too high and then be screaming when bids are taken from non-union companies.
Shifty -- you are wasting your time talking to folks who blame unions for everything negative. They have all the "true" facts and it feeds some sort of inner rage creating a closed mind that will lash out at any reasonable discussion of this issue. I have no idea why the hosts tolerate these hate filled ramblings but for my part, I have hit the unwatch button.
Speaking of KY, we just looked at a beautiful 10 acres with a 5 acre stocked lake. A great ranch style home. It may be our new location to get away from the repressive prison CA is becoming. KY has some great benefits for retired people that CA does not have..
Please do, we need a few more folks to fight the good fight in the Bluegrass State!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
OK, but your comment equating the unions negativity versus overpaid execs, in my mind, is not really accurate either.
One person (Steve Jobs in this case) clearly built a huge industry and added a lot of value to the world.
The UAW may have been beneficial in the early days, but it's behaviors in the last 20-30 years weren't so good. While some workers were benefitted in the short to medium term, in aggregate their actions nearly destroyed an industry and drove lots of jobs offshore that probably would have stayed here. Certainly the jobs that are growing here are in the south where the union isn't so powerful.
I have no idea why the hosts tolerate these hate filled ramblings ...
Talk about going over the top! I don't see where any "ramblings" recently have been "hate-filled". I tend to reserve the word "hate" for truly awful things rather than throwing it around willy-nilly when somebody disagrees. Stating of opinions is what these boards are for.
Casting Steve Jobs as doing "good" and the UAW as doing "harm" is simply not a tenable position. Slave labor in China, people texting while crashing into trees, internet fraud, the destruction of the typewriter industry (lots of people out of work), privacy invasions, etc.
One can cast a scapegoat into any demonic form one wishes, but the social and economic fabric of the country, and the world, is far more complex than such notions IMO.
I think GM could have run itself into the ground if it had FREE labor....seriously.
"I think GM could have run itself into the ground if it had FREE labor....seriously."
Indeed. No matter the labor, when the middle and upper leaders are, as a group, so inept, it doesn't matter. Maybe some more middle managers and consultants will solve the problem.
To say the UAW drove jobs offshore while not acknowledging the actions of leadership is either careless or intentionally deceptive - take your pick. It takes two to tango, and for every union excess, there's white collar ignorance or error to go along with it.
The south, where reverse socialism wins jobs. Darn those liberals to heck.
Casting Steve Jobs as doing "good" and the UAW as doing "harm" is simply not a tenable position. Slave labor in China, people texting while crashing into trees, internet fraud, the destruction of the typewriter industry (lots of people out of work), privacy invasions, etc.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I see a big difference in the "admirability" of Jobs vs. the UAW.
I think GM could have run itself into the ground if it had FREE labor....seriously.
To say the UAW drove jobs offshore while not acknowledging the actions of leadership is either careless or intentionally deceptive - take your pick. It takes two to tango, and for every union excess, there's white collar ignorance or error to go along with it.
Well of course the jobs don't go offshore without management making that decision. But you have to ask yourselves what contributed to making that decision? Lots of labor problems, possibility of wild strikes whenever the company starts to get profitable, extremely high labor domestic labor costs... it's not hard to see what helped drive that decision, unless one is being careless or intentionally deceptive.
All those million-dollar muscle cars you see selling on Speedweek? All those hundreds of millions of dollars spent on the auto hobby? All those accessory vendors at SEMA? The hundreds of restoration shops? The classic car magazine industry?
The UAW built that.
Show me an iPad that won't be a useless pile of obsolete electronic junk in a couple of years.
Jobs in many industries also often go offshore to exploit regulation-free glorified slave labor areas, while the money saved simply gets added to the already enormous pile of capital so many treacherous entities are hoarding.
Labor issues/abuses contribute to those problems for sure, as well as monumentally poor managerial strategy and decision making - of which the big 2.5 has endless guilt. It seems only one side is ever taken to task. Must be more of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" line of thought which proves that what the American public doesn't know (or want to admit) is what makes them the American public.
"Show me an iPad that won't be a useless pile of obsolete electronic junk in a couple of years."
Well, I can show you a circa 1964 Lafayette short wave radio set that still works, at least until one of the tubes die and I can't get a replacement for it. No UAW there!
All those million-dollar muscle cars you see selling on Speedweek? All those hundreds of millions of dollars spent on the auto hobby? All those accessory vendors at SEMA? The hundreds of restoration shops? The classic car magazine industry?
You don't think any of those things would have existed if it wasn't for the auto workers being unionized?
Jobs in many industries also often go offshore to exploit regulation-free glorified slave labor areas, while the money saved simply gets added to the already enormous pile of capital so many treacherous entities are hoarding.
This is where you and I see things differently. It seems you see the treachery in the corporate environment. Ignoring obvious examples like the big banks, most companies operate within a set of rules passed by the governments. I expect those governments to set reasonable rules that look out for their respective countries. I don't fault companies for maximizing their profits legally and within the rules. That is what they are supposed to do. But what our government is *supposed to do* is look out for the people. That is where they have failed.
So in your example above, while you see treacherous companies, I see shoddy rules. And if the government takes payola to bend the rules to the will of the companies, then I see that as an abdication of the government's duty, whereas you appear to see it as treachery on the part of those companies.
The role of the companies is to make money, which is what they are trying to do. The role of the governments (in democratic or pseudo-democratic societies) is to look out for the people, which is what has failed in this case.
Show me an iPad that won't be a useless pile of obsolete electronic junk in a couple of years.
The value of something to be positive, or to enrich humanity, isn't always measured by the longevity of individual items. If that were the case, then we should dump all cars made after 1990 and go back to the muscle cars of the '60's and '70's!
Show me an iPad that won't be a useless pile of obsolete electronic junk in a couple of years.
The UAW built what someone else designed. They are not as valuable as robots are now in manufacturing. Without men like Ford, Daimler & Benz there would be no need for auto workers. Workers are NOTHING without inventors and entrpreneurs. Put a 100 UAW workers in a rubber room and what do you have at the end of the day. NOTHING but 100 over paid autoworkers.
The iPhones & iPads you are making fun of are making more money for Apple than all the cars built by the UAW are making for the D3. Consumer electronics is a far bigger industry than automotive.
Riding mower? You want him out there for two days a week eh? Better get a John Deere bush hog (except, there's a lot of UAW workers at various John Deere plants).
>The iPhones & iPads... are making more money for Apple....
And it's all being made for the wealthy management of Apple and Wall Street funds. On the backs of $1.00 day workers in plants in China. Little investors will lose money in Apple; they don't know when to buy in and sell out. It's like going to the casinos which have been popular in the Midwest for a few years and just opened in Ohio: the house wins.
Riding mower? You want him out there for two days a week eh?
I cut @2.5 acres in less than 90 minutes with my Cub Enforcer that has just a 54 inch deck. A 60 inch Scag, Grasshopper, or Dixie Chopper would probably let him mow 10 acres an less than 5 hours, easy...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Is the area that you are mowing broken up with flower beds, trees, storage barns, etc.? Do you have those things to mow around or is it a straight area like cutting a farm field with nothing to slow your pace?
Actually, knowing who we're talking to, it'll have to be a push mower - there'll be dozens of fruit trees and garden plants all over and no way for anything bigger than a 22" deck to navigate.
Heck Tiong, I think both sides have become atrocious. Congress votes it's special interest money and even when they pass a useful law, the legal system has become so prostituted that corporate lawyers can get it tossed or re-interpreted over and over. The Supreme Court has become nothing more than another partisan Washington organization using very stretched interpretations of the Constitution to justify their "personal" beliefs. Washington is so polarized by their moneyed backers that no one can compromise anymore, let alone lead, and that means when they do legislate it's likely going to be bad law. The business side seems solely motivated by how big the overpaid senior executives can pad their bonus with little concern about future impacts on their company, let alone society - they got theirs! Vulture capitalists strip companies of their liquidity so that even if they can claim they "turned them around", most have little chance of being successful long term after they've been raped. Sadly, my generation, the Boomers, needs to step aside. We started idealistically out of college, but have quickly slipped and stooped to total avarice at the expense of our country's future. I'm personally embarrassed and ashamed. I just pray that the next generation can fix all of this mess so our grandkids don't have to learn Mandarin...and unfortunately, the tea party has shown they aren't going to be the answer either. Yes, companies are in the business to make money and government is supposed to enhance it's citizenry and govern, but both need to do things responsibly and demonstrate some concern for the country and loyalty to America. I'm just not seeing this anymore in either the Capitol or on corporate Mahogany Row...and people wonder how come America has become so rude and ill-tempered!
On the backs of $1.00 day workers in plants in China.
We gave up most consumer electronics to cheap foreign labor in the 1950s. I do not believe you could build a big enough factory to satisfy the demand for consumer electronics in this country. Factories with 250,000 workers are just not in our mindset. When a new factory is needed in China it is built in a matter of weeks. Here you would not have a permit for at least a year in most states. By the time all the red tape was done the need would be passed. Not to mention finding 250k people all ready to work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week for MW. You will not see consumer electronics manufactured in the USA. Just too much competition from foreign companies. Heck Samsung is bigger than Apple and would really wipe out a company trying to make electronics with our Union labor.
Companies buy the rules. Corporations control the government, not the other way around. This is an oligocracy. It's funny how easy it is to find regulations that help your desires when the regulations are bought and paid for by a lobbyist society. Shoddy rules, yes, but look who is behind them. Government has failed, and so has our esteemed executive class - they are both treacherous. When the rules are bought and the game is rigged, any idea of "legally" becomes a parody.
If I hire someone to shoot someone, and they do it, we are both guilty of a crime, not only the one who pulls the trigger.
Comments
Must be nice living in the only bit of the state that is prospering due to our HORRIBLE Legislature and Governor. Although you have a bankrupt city Vallejo, caused by the PE Unions. I just need to buy some rose colored glasses or move out while I can still afford to. I see too many people lined up at our Food Bank each week to believe our state is not in the toilet. And that is in an Upscale neighborhood. I would hate living down with the masses of poverty we have.
From the map fintail posted we are near the bottom of the states on most factors. 38th out of 50 states is not a statistic to brag about.
http://assetsandopportunity.org/scorecard/
We have no trickle down. The Limo Liberals in the state distribute it to those that will vote for them. And we have a fraud filled welfare safety net here. Of course we have the highest population of welfare recipients. Many states have better assistance programs for those impacted by our HORRIBLE economy. Bottom line why pull the wagon for low pay when you can get in and ride with more cash in your pocket.
http://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/09/Welfare-v-work-2.png
If CA is so bad (and no doubt it is the further south you go), pull up stakes and move to a low wage/low amenity/low regulation area that you seem to desire. You've already got 1.5 of the 3 right at home. I bet you won't be any happier.
The class warfare is not a simple one. It is state government against small businesses. It is the Rich and Poor against the middle class private sector. It is the environmentalist against common sense solutions. It is Union workers vs non union workers. It is liberalism against conservatism.
I personally am in a sweet spot. Decent income and a home I can afford. It is what is going on around me that is troublesome. Uncontrolled taxes, regulations and the masses being incited by the government to attack those that are more successful than they are. Finding the perfect location is not possible. If I should find it I will not let anyone know. I don't want it ruined by too many people moving there.
I think the CAL legislature is doing great--an example for the country. Very progressive legislation, problems being addressed and solved.
The country will have to follow California, as we will dominate economically, population-wise, agriculturally, and in intellectual property. California is the future of America, like it or not.
Yes, but San Jose and San Diego voters decide to cut pensions. That's not the fault of real estate I don't think. Seems to me the union pensions ARE an issue in the state. The public employee unions are a monopoly, which is why they're getting away with their level of benefits. Any private company with exorbitant unions has either failed or moved offshore - or the unions have found a way to acquiesce to save themselves.
The cars work, the trains don't crash, so what is everyone's problem here?
Everyone operates in their own self-interest. There's no one to blame.
No doubt there can be too much regulation, too much taxes, etc. But there also reaches a point there there can be not enough. How, and at what cost "success" is established might need to be examined, too.
There's no perfect place.
Well it's scapegoating in the sense that it's becoming more irrelevant, as private-sector unions are not a big issue anymore. The difference between a Steve Jobs and a UAW is that Steve revolutionized multiple industries, created the most valuable company in the world, and changed the lives of hundreds of millions of people for the better. Conversely, the UAW (along with the inept D3 management), helped nearly destroy an industry and cost the US billions of dollars. I'd say Steve warrants a positive magazine cover more than the UAW.
So why does Obama and the Democrats continue to blame Bush for everything? He did sign off on the biggest Christmas present ever given to an incoming President to spend with TARP. Which he was able to Pay back the UAW and other campaign contributors with.
Bashing the UAW is justified, as part of the problem with the Domestic automakers inability to compete without government handouts.
Bashing the PE Unions is my right as a tax payer being raped by most of them in this state. I know you don't agree. I don't think you understand what the public employees are doing to the cities and state with 1000s of retirees knocking down $100,000 plus per year. Then you think the worst legislature in the USA is a good one. We are totally and diametrically opposed in our ideologies. Never will agree with each other.
Just as a question. If our progressive legislature is so great, why did they use substandard Chinese materials to rebuild the Oakland Bay bridge? That killed a lot of American jobs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global/26bridge.html?pagewanted=all&_- r=0
I think we are more divided that before the Civil war. This is the most divisive President and to a lessor extent Congress in our history.
Around here they are still reliving the copper miner's strike in 1913 but the last "bloody" union strike was back in 1922.
The last UAW strike was in '07 against GM and lasted two days. (All per wiki).
Absolutely, making the UAW some sort of labor heros is crazy. Yes they stood up to repressive corporate bullies in the 1930s. By the 1950s & 60s the UAW and several other unions became the bullies. They did as much as anything to make off shoring a good option. The UAW leaders were too stupid to realize after NAFTA that setting up shop in Mexico was the logical way to get around their competition killing work rules. I don't think UAW wages were enough to push the D3 to Mexico and elsewhere. It was Federal Pension rules and old agreements on pensions with gold plated HC plans that was draining the coffers. The media never talks about the $29 billion we donated to the UAW pension funds.
Union members in general have a false sense of entitlement. The last few years we have seen that spread to the general population. They believe if they don't have a job it is the tax payers duty to support them. Like it is some RIGHT in the Constitution. Or that every job should pay a living wage.
I see gangs of teens attacking people randomly and killing them in our cities. That is more than enough bloodshed for me. Drive by shootings are common place. The people are divided worse than ever in this country. Rioting is squashed by tank driving swat teams in our cities. That stops the riots before they get started. Could be why the Homeland Security is stocking up on Ammo. We drove past so many new complexes on this trip built by Homeland security. Some of the yards had 100s of armored vehicles. Maybe the Feds are just buying hundreds of useless vehicles to keep the UAW working.
Hm, wonder just how many Facebook friends the UAW has...none? 14,000 likes.
Growing up in the "deep" South, we considered Kentucky to be a border state, but perhaps the firewall/dike/Maginot Line is cracking a bit more.
"Workers at the automotive supplier Faurecia Interior Systems Inc. plant in Louisville, Ky., have elected to join the UAW.
A majority vote by the 172 workers at the plant gives them a union voice, the UAW said today in a statement."
Faurecia plant in Louisville joins UAW (Automotive News)
Same site says that Bob King is going to be replaced . Looks like King's term is up in nine months and he's too old to run again. So I guess he's trying to make the South his legacy.
I don't see that as a big deal with Ford having a UAW plant there. Not sure the Card Check thing is actually legal. Another one of Obama's executive orders that goes against existing laws. At least the workers have a choice in KY. Unlike non RTW states.
Speaking of KY, we just looked at a beautiful 10 acres with a 5 acre stocked lake. A great ranch style home. It may be our new location to get away from the repressive prison CA is becoming. KY has some great benefits for retired people that CA does not have.
That's a highly arguable statement, to say the least. To my mind, that's just another way of painting one dog white and the other green and saying they are two different species of animal.
There's nothing to say that without the UAW, your very nice Chevrolet might have performed like a Trabant, nor can you say that an iPad is equivalent to the discovery of penicillin.
I also think that too many Americans confuse what politicians and business leaders or union leaders SAY and what they actually DO. If we paid more attention to what they actually DO, we'd have a better sense of where they actually sit on the spectrum of left/right, or conservative/liberal or visionary/greedhead.
In my opinion, when the smoke and BS are all cleared away, most people operate as centrist and most people operate in their own interests, or the interests of their family and business intimates.
You can't be screaming that union labor is too high and then be screaming when bids are taken from non-union companies.
Please do, we need a few more folks to fight the good fight in the Bluegrass State!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Check out the Big South Fork area - the river is nice.
One person (Steve Jobs in this case) clearly built a huge industry and added a lot of value to the world.
The UAW may have been beneficial in the early days, but it's behaviors in the last 20-30 years weren't so good. While some workers were benefitted in the short to medium term, in aggregate their actions nearly destroyed an industry and drove lots of jobs offshore that probably would have stayed here. Certainly the jobs that are growing here are in the south where the union isn't so powerful.
Talk about going over the top! I don't see where any "ramblings" recently have been "hate-filled". I tend to reserve the word "hate" for truly awful things rather than throwing it around willy-nilly when somebody disagrees. Stating of opinions is what these boards are for.
One can cast a scapegoat into any demonic form one wishes, but the social and economic fabric of the country, and the world, is far more complex than such notions IMO.
I think GM could have run itself into the ground if it had FREE labor....seriously.
Indeed. No matter the labor, when the middle and upper leaders are, as a group, so inept, it doesn't matter. Maybe some more middle managers and consultants will solve the problem.
The south, where reverse socialism wins jobs. Darn those liberals to heck.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I see a big difference in the "admirability" of Jobs vs. the UAW.
I think GM could have run itself into the ground if it had FREE labor....seriously.
Well, you may have a point there...
Well of course the jobs don't go offshore without management making that decision. But you have to ask yourselves what contributed to making that decision? Lots of labor problems, possibility of wild strikes whenever the company starts to get profitable, extremely high labor domestic labor costs... it's not hard to see what helped drive that decision, unless one is being careless or intentionally deceptive.
The UAW built that.
Show me an iPad that won't be a useless pile of obsolete electronic junk in a couple of years.
Labor issues/abuses contribute to those problems for sure, as well as monumentally poor managerial strategy and decision making - of which the big 2.5 has endless guilt. It seems only one side is ever taken to task. Must be more of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" line of thought which proves that what the American public doesn't know (or want to admit) is what makes them the American public.
Well, I can show you a circa 1964 Lafayette short wave radio set that still works, at least until one of the tubes die and I can't get a replacement for it. No UAW there!
OMG. A blast from the past. Layfayette. I actually bought and built a Heath stereo receiver amplifier. But I remember looking at Layfayette items.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You don't think any of those things would have existed if it wasn't for the auto workers being unionized?
This is where you and I see things differently. It seems you see the treachery in the corporate environment. Ignoring obvious examples like the big banks, most companies operate within a set of rules passed by the governments. I expect those governments to set reasonable rules that look out for their respective countries. I don't fault companies for maximizing their profits legally and within the rules. That is what they are supposed to do. But what our government is *supposed to do* is look out for the people. That is where they have failed.
So in your example above, while you see treacherous companies, I see shoddy rules. And if the government takes payola to bend the rules to the will of the companies, then I see that as an abdication of the government's duty, whereas you appear to see it as treachery on the part of those companies.
The role of the companies is to make money, which is what they are trying to do. The role of the governments (in democratic or pseudo-democratic societies) is to look out for the people, which is what has failed in this case.
Just two different ways of looking at things.
The value of something to be positive, or to enrich humanity, isn't always measured by the longevity of individual items. If that were the case, then we should dump all cars made after 1990 and go back to the muscle cars of the '60's and '70's!
Show me an iPad that won't be a useless pile of obsolete electronic junk in a couple of years.
The UAW built what someone else designed. They are not as valuable as robots are now in manufacturing. Without men like Ford, Daimler & Benz there would be no need for auto workers. Workers are NOTHING without inventors and entrpreneurs. Put a 100 UAW workers in a rubber room and what do you have at the end of the day. NOTHING but 100 over paid autoworkers.
The iPhones & iPads you are making fun of are making more money for Apple than all the cars built by the UAW are making for the D3. Consumer electronics is a far bigger industry than automotive.
And it's all being made for the wealthy management of Apple and Wall Street funds. On the backs of $1.00 day workers in plants in China. Little investors will lose money in Apple; they don't know when to buy in and sell out. It's like going to the casinos which have been popular in the Midwest for a few years and just opened in Ohio: the house wins.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I cut @2.5 acres in less than 90 minutes with my Cub Enforcer that has just a 54 inch deck. A 60 inch Scag, Grasshopper, or Dixie Chopper would probably let him mow 10 acres an less than 5 hours, easy...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Do you have those things to mow around or is it a straight area like cutting a farm field with nothing to slow your pace?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just disc it and put in pea plants.
We gave up most consumer electronics to cheap foreign labor in the 1950s. I do not believe you could build a big enough factory to satisfy the demand for consumer electronics in this country. Factories with 250,000 workers are just not in our mindset. When a new factory is needed in China it is built in a matter of weeks. Here you would not have a permit for at least a year in most states. By the time all the red tape was done the need would be passed. Not to mention finding 250k people all ready to work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week for MW. You will not see consumer electronics manufactured in the USA. Just too much competition from foreign companies. Heck Samsung is bigger than Apple and would really wipe out a company trying to make electronics with our Union labor.
If I hire someone to shoot someone, and they do it, we are both guilty of a crime, not only the one who pulls the trigger.