I had never heard of Michael Buble. Thought you were making a joke. I am enjoying his nostalgic voice. Not sure I would fight a crowd to see him in person. Nice website: http://www.michaelbuble.com/
What is going on with that strike. Is it the end of those workers? Is this another factory gone south?
The recordings are better than his in-person voice through the amplification system. But I enjoyed it (I like LES Elgart/Larry Elgart and big band sound -- he has a GREAT band and showcased them during the show as individuals not just "the band." This was first event concert I've been too in a long time. Lots of ice shows and theater but no concerts. I hate the warmup acts. Gimme the real thing even if it's only 1 hour. Buble was much longer.
This is the most recent I got on Google. It sounds like the workers haven't got it that they're getting squashed like the migrants in Grapes of Wrath. Someone says that if the UAW had stood up to GM this group wouldn't be having to strike now to get what they want. Meanwhile the big landowners and businesses and government goes merrily on their way squashing the worker bees because more are coming in to do the menial tasks for less money.
I'm stunned by the relevance of Grapes of Wrath as I read it again to current economics in the US.
I thought about the strike and Rocky going to Cincinnati while passing a truckload of new Malibus on their way down I75 from the shipping yard next to the Moraine truck plant. Reps of the plant have gone to Detroit with local government leaders to tell GM that the community cares. They have production through 2010 and then the plant hasn't been assigned a new product as the Envoy and others they produce are phased out.
While the workers are overpaid, the alternative of closing the plants just to show them there's world competition out there is ruthless.
I sure hope that if Hillary gets it she corrects the blunder made during her husband's administration by allowing NAFTA to go through. I think they should abolish it altogether.
Heck, I missed you rocky! The GM bashers have been going wild in here despite the Malibu and the truly awesome CTS.
>I sure hope that if Hillary gets it she corrects the blunder made during her husband's administration by allowing NAFTA to go through.
Her handlers called the Canadians just as Obama's did. She didn't put that in the advertisements we saw in Ohio about Obama talking both sides of his mouth on the issue after the debate. She also told them it was just politics.
She doesn't intend to change a thing unless it means money in the bank for her.
I'm still waiting for the solution the Democrats had that ran for Congress in 2006 for the cost of gasoline. In April Pelosi said the Democrats had a solution for the (then) high prices and the oil companies.
I'm waiting.
So don't wait for a NAFTA change. Canada has too much oil to alienate them.
rocky: yes, you were missed...I began to feel my brain turning to slush as I would pontificate on how Detroit is dead and unions are killing us, and I kept thinking, "I need someone to dispute my thinking, even if they are wrong (... :P ...)...someone to keep me on my toes, just to show me how the other half thinks...I knew a topic like UAW would eventually bring you back, as you are magnetized by it as much as I am...selling many cars, I hope???
Imidaz: I read somewhere, recently, (sorry, no cite) that Canada's oil may not be usuable by the USA...something about the oil sands (which has 3X the oil of the Middle east, I believe) that if it gives off too many particles in refining then our environmental rules will prevent us from using the oil...my specific facts are wrong (I wish I had the article) but supposedly there is something that may prevent us from using a source of oil closer, safer, more friendly, and more voluminous, all because the wackos would rather see us all use bicycles...
gives off too many particles in refining then our environmental rules will prevent us from ...supposedly there is something that may prevent us from using a source of oil closer, safer, more friendly, and more voluminous, all because the wackos
The wackos kept us from building refineries, windmills, nuclear power stations. Next they'll block an available source of oil.
One of my problems (among the many) is that I read a lot of blurbs on the Internet and in many of the alternative publications I receive in the mail (meaning sources other than US News, Time, Newsweek, etc), so when I read something that piques my thinking, and then someone posts here about a topic, I really don't remember where I read it, so I cannot publish a cite...it bugs me, because I do not like to sound like I make this stuff up, but quoting a cite would certainly give folks a chance to read what I read without my "interpretation"...
This morning President Bush said each one of us would get a $1200.00 tax rebate. It was previously slated to be $1400.00, but they dropped it to a $1200.00 tax rebate because of various budget problems.
Now, if we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China, if we spend it on computers, most of the money will go to Korea or India .
If we spend it on gasoline it will all go to the Arabs.....and none of these scenarios will help the American ec onomy.
We need to keep that money here in America .....so the only way to keep that money here at home is to drink beer, gamble, or spend it on prostitution. Currently it seems that these are the only businesses still left in the U.S. :sick:
Or you could put it on a car built here in america. Just look at the sticker and make sure it was not imported.
The auto industry will lead the US out of this miserable economy. Watch Michigan and when things start getting better there the US will follow. And we jsut heard that Michigan home sales in the last few months have steadied out from plummeting so maybe things are getting better already. Of course 3.35 gas may stick a knife in that theory.
I have to agree with you, including the games bet on by referees. That has to be watched closer by David Stern and the front office of the NBA. That's whacked. Have you ever watched a game that you feel is not being called fairly by the referees? Think back to Super Bowl 40 between Pittsburgh and Seattle. The referees made sure the Stealers won that game. For an NBA example, in the 1993 NBA playoffs between the Phoenix Suns and the Seattle Sonics, in a game in Phoenix, the Suns shot 63 free throws and the Sonics shot only 27. What the? That's dirty referee treatment, that's what that is. Gambling is alive and well in the U.S., gentlemen car freaks. I guarantee it. Yesterday at the mini-mart I was trying to pay for my $3.24/gallon 87 no-lead gas, and I had to wait for about 5 minutes(at least)while the blond woman ahead of me picked out her various assundry lotto tickets. Yikes.
are there happily with cash in hand. My Mom sent me some newspaper clippings from the Everett Herald(newspaper from a city just north of Seattle)that featured the latest millionaire lotto winner. Turns out the winner was my friend from high school. After taxes he and his wife will net about $850,000. Decent pocket change. He's decided to keep his job at the north Everett mini-mart he has become an institution working at. He's worked as a clerk there for about 18 years! Umm, no, I'm not gonna try and collect on that money he owes me, either.
Just kidding. I mean...he doesn't owe me any money!
I only have a couple of minutes because I have some follow ups to work on !!! Car sales are slow to be honest with you all. I sell pre-owned thus I haven't sold any new ones. I've tried switching some of my difficult customers to new but haven't had much success. The American Axel, strike has slowed things at GM & Delphi, and since I'm on the opposite side of the fence as you Marsha7, I hope those workers fight a tough fight because they are bringing NAFTA, back into the spotlight just when it was beginning to become old news. I like many americans want our jobs back and I've openly have said I will support the candidate that will do the most to repeal NAFTA. I know the 3 we have to choose from are't all at the top of my list but I believe Obama & Hillary, will do more than McCain, to fix the NAFTA, issue. McCain, wants to expand the trade treaty's and if that happens you can kiss unionized labor good bye. Any good that is manufactored will not be done in this country because it will be impossible for us to match the money that jingles like those folks are being paid !!!!
So the bottom line is we are not in a recession but are headed torwards a depression !!!!! Diesel prices are at $4.09 around here and the folks who would normally buy diesels aren't stopping in. The 6.0 V8 won't cut it my customers say but at $4.09 a gallon they will borrow their buddy's truck !!! It's just crazy. My female friend is selling the hell out of Malibu's, though !!! The Cobalts, Aveo's are moving pretty well. Truck sales are pretty slow and that is why we need the 2-Mode hybrid system in them !!! Next year I believe that option will be available !!!
I'm waiting for a call back on a interview with a Saturn, store. I'm putting in 60-65 hours a week and not making much money. Lot's of changes are happening at the momment here and it wasn't for the better.
I miss ya guys and I will try to get on a little more often as I didn't cover everything but you guys knew the strike would get me fired up, eh ? :P -grin !!!
We had a customer talking about the american axel strike and it looks like the striking workers are united as he has some relatives involved.
As in United we stand, United we fall. Every time a group strikes in this country I think of the 80,000 plus grocery clerks here in Souther Ca. Their 3 month stand gained them nothing and lost them a bunch. By the time they went back to work they got less than they were offered before the strike. How long do you think it will take GM to round up an offshore manufacturer for the stuff they need? The strike has gone on too long now to be good for the workers.
Well if we allow big business to win each time they don't want to play fair then what does that say about us normal average Joes ??? My generation has lost it's pride and just bends over. The three worthless people we allowed to be the remaining candidates running for president goes to show you how screwed in the head we really are !!! So you suggest they just take it up the tailpipe because some greedy corporation will buy from slave labor ??? That is weak gagrice !!! No offense but it's that type of thinking that is the perfect example of why this country is in shambles !!! You can't replace 26% of the jobs in this country with $7 an hr. service jobs with no benefits. The pseudo-capitalist golden eutopia has already been proven not to work but I guess if you are in that 1-5% it's just the way you envisioned it !!! Those great paying service jobs that were suppose to be created by these large scale trade treaty's and free market society well where are they ???? India, China, Pakistan ??? huh ??? Unions are hosed because the people in this country allowed it to happen and if I must choose between the 2 poison pill choicesof socialism with Hillary and pay higher taxes or choose McCain, and not only have a job at all and let the free market decide what my standard of living will be..... well gagrice, give me the socialism pill because I might not like it but at least I will have something !!!! :sick:
I assume you listened to Bill Gates speaking to the Congress about speeding up the immigration process. He is looking for trained people. Our schools are not supplying the need for educated people. Who would you like to blame for that? When UAW members are sent to the job banks are they taking that opportunity to get training for high tech positions? Somewhere the responsibility has to fall on the individual. Your hero Bill Clinton was from a poor broken family and managed to get a good education without being wealthy. It can be done. If this is truly land of the free. We should be free to do as well as we are capable of doing. If all a person is equipped mentally to do is put on lug bolts and all the lug bolt jobs are taken. He is in trouble and will have to find a different way to make a living. There is NOTHING in the Constitution guaranteeing everyone a great job with great pay and benefits. The UAW workers had a good run and now those jobs are dwindling. Maybe you should visit with some of the old timers that worked for Western Electric building telephone offices. It took 2 -3 years just to install an office for 10,000 subscribers. Now a cell site can be ordered and installed in a matter of weeks that can handle 100,000 or more subscribers. You think those 1000s of jobs are still with us. If you use a cell phone instead of an old dial phone you are part of the reason those jobs are gone. I know your whole life has been immersed in the auto industry. It just happens to be one of the last to survive. Nothing is forever. This country will provide a lot of jobs. If you are smart enough you can make a lot of money. If you are flippin' burgers it is going to be a rough life.
>"I know your whole life has been immersed in the auto industry. It just happens to be one of the last to survive. Nothing is forever. This country will provide a lot of jobs. If you are smart enough you can make a lot of money. If you are flippin' burgers it is going to be a rough life. "
The editorial writers and reporters and others of Dayton Daily News, a Cox newspaper, in Dayton, are getting some of their own medicine. Through the years they have stated how when employers can't afford to pay wages, workers just have to take lower wages.
Now they haven't had a new contract and don't like the old wage scale and the new one imposed by the newspaper. They put up a large billboard across from the newspaper's printing plant (which the newspaper built OUTSIDE the city of Dayton and the immediate area when they editorialized about companies leaving Dayton). They haven't had any newspaper coverage in the Dayton Daily News.
The newspaper broke the delivery people's union a decade ago when they built the big new printing plant in the next county. Now the worm has turned on the editorial staff and reporters.
...is full of it! There are PLENTY of trained people out there willing and able to work for him. He is able, but not willing to pay them a decent salary. He thinks a guy should spend tens of thousands of dollars to get a computer science degree and be willing to get paid like an assistant manager trainee at McDonald's.
Bill better be careful. If the fecal matter strikes the rotating electrical cooling device, society will revert to the pecking order of high school and guys like him will be stuffed in lockers or tossed naked into the girls' shower.
The editorial writers and reporters and others of Dayton Daily News, a Cox newspaper, in Dayton, are getting some of their own medicine. Through the years they have stated how when employers can't afford to pay wages, workers just have to take lower wages.
Now they haven't had a new contract and don't like the old wage scale and the new one imposed by the newspaper. They put up a large billboard across from the newspaper's printing plant (which the newspaper built OUTSIDE the city of Dayton and the immediate area when they editorialized about companies leaving Dayton). They haven't had any newspaper coverage in the Dayton Daily News.
The newspaper broke the delivery people's union a decade ago when they built the big new printing plant in the next county. Now the worm has turned on the editorial staff and reporters.
For the first time today I saw a 5 inch article about the conflict way back into the paper. I suspect it's there only because Senator Sherrod Brown showed up in support.
I would say the smart ones have taken the buyout package. If they are young enough and want to continue working they should use some of the cash for training in a different field.
When I took the buyout and retired, our company was trying to downsize. The older guys that thought about taking the buyout and retiring are now stuck working. If they decide to retire there will not be a nice cash bonus in their 401K. Shortly after I took the buyout the oil prices went up and along with it the work load went up. Now my old company is trying to find trained people. They have gone from 8 to 14 technicians and need more. It is not for everyone and they have had turnover. One left for a much higher paying job with Conoco Phillips. He got a $55k per year raise going from a Union job to a NON-Union job.
You cannot be stuck in a rut. Chances are that you will die in that same rut.
PS Bill Gates would have to marry someone at work. He never leaves the office. I'm surprised he has a kid..
I am surprised that any newspaper has even survived. Who reads them anymore? With TV and the Internet, news is old by the time they get it into print and out to the reader.
I would love to see a media person like Dan Rather "flippin' burgers" to survive.
anybody who expects things to stay the same as they were for the last 40 years, what you are really seeing is the failure or the inability to adapt to change...
The UAW had its run, and their greed or inability to alter working conditions "forced" automakers to move their plants elsewhere...but we know we can make good cars because the "imports" have been building here as fast as Big 3 are shutting them down...the difference is that the new workers are more broadly trained and more flexible, and not polluted/spoiled/brainwashed by the union work rules and the union mentality...for anyone to actually expect in this day to only be trained to install lug nuts, and to expect to be paid for sitting still if no lug nut installers are needed, while door installers are running short, is not based in reality...
The union will not die, but union work rules and the crap the union pulled over the last 40 years is gone...it's time the automworkers joined the real working world, where your employer sends you where they need you, not in the one area you want to work for the next 40 years...
The UAW has really two choices, adapt or wither away...now, if they strike too much, the company may not spend time in extended negotiations, they may just shut the plant and move tomorrow, and the workers may show up just in time to see the last milling machine being removed just before imploding the plant, whiel they watch their jobs implode with it...
Failure to adapt...it is that simple...in terms of Darwin, that which will not or cannot adapt will become extinct...immutable law of nature...
I don't recall if that was the people who drop the paper at the door; I believe those are contract carriers. The union was those who handled the papers after printing and put them onto delivery vehicles which fan out in the early morning hours to spread the news to the great-unwashed living away from the ivory tower of the newspaper's editors and their opinion and slant on what gets printed and what doesn't get printed.
Haven't seen much in the way of firm buyout numbers at Ford - "UAW workers have said they expect only several thousand to accept the buyouts, far fewer than took offers in 2006." Reuters
But when this country goes belly up and you average slob can't put food on the table I agree with lemko, their will be a revolt. Gagrice, when Slick Willy, went to college it was actually affordable for poor folks. Unless you want a college loan debt the size of many mortgages it's just not feasable !!! College, is quickly becoming for those kids of the ubber wealthy. Sure, if you are a minority their are scholarships for you but a poor white male is SOL !!!! I also love how many of you say get a McDegree, and get that great job but when your starting salary is that of a Mickey D's assistant manager because of greedy pseudo-capitalist like Gates, they would rather import people from India, whom are college educated and will work for a fraction of the cost than assist a hard working american gain the knowledge and experience to grow !!! Yeah, anyone can pull specific cases to make their case against me like the Conoco Phillips, union guy but the fact of the matter is not all those opportunity's are available to everyone !!!! It still boils down to who you know as some of my college educated family members are finding out !!!
I guess that is why I'm pro-union because seniority seems like the only feasible way to eliminate favoritism, descrimination, etc, when going for promotions like in the skill trades !!!
when Slick Willy, went to college it was actually affordable for poor folks.
I am older than Bill Clinton. It was not less expensive when I graduated from High School. My ex-wife had a big college loan to go to a local college. Unless you worked full time and went to college or your parents paid your way it was EXPENSIVE. If you were a go getter you could get a scholarship. Or if you played sports you could get a scholarship. Nothing is changed. Just inflation has made it look like more. I know my folks could not afford to send me to college. I was helping support them. I think it is easier now with all the freebie guvmint programs. The best way was the GI bill. That made it worth doing time in the military.
College, is quickly becoming for those kids of the ubber wealthy.
Really? Let's see...
My family live in an Atlanta suburb single family house with a 2-car garage. Dad is a realtor (not a "hot shot" realtor) and mom is retired. Dad drives a '05 Toyota 4Runner, mom drives a '99 Camry and my younger sister has my beat-up '97 Accord. Mom and Dad supported me through college with the federal FAFSA student aids and my own HOPE scholarship, I also lived at home in order to relief some of their financial burdens. After college I got accepted into graduate school with full scholarship and research assistantship which covered my full tuition and provided additional $1,500 a month. Just so you know, this kind of financial assistance is pretty common for all engineering major students with an above average GPA. I graduated with a MS in Aerospace Engineering in summer '06 and had jobs lined up for me to choose. Right now I am working for a major defense contractor in LA and able to afford a pretty nice brand new Lexus IS350.
My sister right now is pretty much following my path (FAFSA, HOPE scholarship, you know the drill by now...) but instead of doing engineering she double majors in pre-law and psychology. Her goal is to become a prosecutor or some sort.
As you can see, we are just a normal middle class family like most other people in this country. One doesn't have to be ubber wealthy in order to receive world-class higher education and be successful.
Yeah, there's a lot of help to be had out there if you look.
Now I've been out of college many years so I won't use my example but I have my oldest daughter going to the local county college. I feel the pinch of paying it and I'm by no means wealthy but we manage. When she finishes there she'll be onto a four year college but half the degree is pretty reasonable.
I have a niece and nephew who are each putting themselves through college. It can be done.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
...why don't he do a world of good for his own country and open up a free computer science school for anybody who wants to learn information technology under the condition they work for Microsoft upon completing their training? He'll get the qualified people he needs.
Oh, Bill and Melinda Gates are over in India or some other third-world toilet helping the poor. Shoot, Bill! There are plenty of poor in Detroit, North Philly, Appalachia, Mississippi, and even the great state of Washington itself who would appreciate your help! Charity starts at home, Bill! If you're such a great philanthropist, help your fellow Americans and to heck with the rest of the world!
I know a lot of people in IT and a lot of them say these guys they bring in on H1B visas from India and China are dumb as rocks, can't communicate, and have a lot of personal and hygiene habits that leave a lot to be desired. Meanwhile, these companies are laying off thousands of highly qualified older individuals who are U.S. citizens. Companies don't want to hire these older guys and these extremely intelligent people end up working menial jobs any high school drop out could do. I knew one older gentleman who was once a software engineer working at the multiplex selling tickets because he couldn't get another IT job due to his age.
The most disgusting thing I heard was that the American IT worker must train his foreign replacement under threat of forfeiture of his severance pay! I'm surprised IT workers just don't hijack the IT infrastructure and bring the whole system crashing down until these despicable practices are stopped!
Now, you mention student aid and scholarships (rocky mentioned being white, I don't know if you are considered a minority or not). I'm sure your above average GPA helped with assistance. But I looked up prices from 50 years ago and this is what I come up with:
House: $30,000 Average income: $4,650 Ford car: $1967-$3929 Milk: $1.01 Gas: $.24 Bread $.19 Postage stamp: $.04 Chef Boy-Ar-Dee spaghetti, 15 1/2 .oz can.: $ .19 Corned Beef: $.59 lb.
Swiss Steak: $.75 lb. Libby Tomato Juice, 5 (46 .oz) cans: $1.00 Kraft Carmels, 1 lb pkg: $.37 Milk: $.42 half gal. Uncle Ben’s Rice, 14 oz box - $.19 Sunkist Oranges, 5 lbs.: $.49 Cantaloupe: $.05 lb. Celery: $.04 lb. Tuition at Harvard: $1,250 yr. Nathan's Hot Dog: $.25 Roundtrip airfare London to New York: $453
Now, what you'll notice is that alot (not all) of items are about 1/10th of what they are today. Here in RI $300,000 will get you a modest home, and $46,000 a yr. is about right. You'll notice Harvard's tuition is $1,250 in 1958. Today, it's a whopping $32,557, WITHOUT ROOM AND BOARD!!!! Now, to be fair, the article on the Harvard web site also talks about student aid (in the form of scholarships, jobs, and loans) that will reduce the burden (that, given your stated modest means, I assume you would have qualified for) to $10,500 a yr., which is more in line with price increases over the last 50 yrs. What I can't find is what the average assistance would've been 50 yrs ago. But 2 things that have outpaced inflation in recent years are college tuition and health insurance premiums.
First of all, FAFSA is color blind, look it up. HOPE is too and I am sure Marsha7 can back me up on that.
Second, I don't care about how much a college education cost 50 years ago. I went in at 2000 and graduated with a master's in 2006 as stated in the previous post.
Last but not least, if one can't afford Harvard then go to a good public school. Universities like UC Berkeley, UCLA and Georgia Tech are all good school which provides world class education at a much lower cost than those Ivy league schools.
The bottom line is that there are options out there, one just have to look for it.
I know Bill Gates gave a big donation to San Diego State. It was on the local news. His complaint is valid that kids are not getting an education out of many of our schools that equips them for college. What I see from a lot of kids today is a total lack of incentive to get ahead. That is not the case in India and many other countries. There is a reason Gates and other software companies hire Engineers from India. They are better on average than we are providing from our universities. He wants the best in the World for his company. Not just the best available in Washington or the USA. I do know his philanthropic foundation is the largest in the US. He has donated over $5.2 billion in the US of which $3.7 billion was to further education. I dare say the money he has put out has done more good dollar for dollar than the tax dollars you and I spend on education.
First of all, I WASN'T trying to insinuate that a minority status helped you, just trying to verify it in reference to Rocky's comment.
Second of all, Using Harvard was just a reference-that's it. Nothing more-nothing less. The point was that the tuition went up 30X's while wages went up 10X's. Tuition HAS outpaced inflation, just like healthcare premiums have.
Thirdly, I guess you missed the last segment of my comment, where Harvard's tuition assistance could allow people like you and me to attend for just $10,500, more inline w/ inflation over the years.
Actually, colleges like Harvard, Yale and Princeton for starters have insanely huge endowments much of which is dedicated to paying for grants to those that can't afford it. The majority of the undergraduates receive aid. If you can get in they won't let money get in your way.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Well isn't there a difference between tens of millions in compensation and $150K a yr. that the UAW president makes ??? A modest raise compared to some that get millions in compensation when they are going belly up like ARM at Ford !!!
Gagrice, that is just crazy to point that out !!! :confuse:
I don't think it is. If he was able to negotiate a 3% increase for the members then he deserves a 3% increase. If memory serves me there were losses in the last contracts. The UAW is not a for profit organization. He should make more than the members. But getting a raise when the workers are taking cuts does not look good. I guess I was just too involved with our local to accept that. Most years the Business agents made less than the guys in our unit. We were the highest paid so it was kind of a sore subject with the Union bosses. The head guy (secretary/treasurer) only made a slight bit more than we did. They are elected by the members and paid by the members. Sounds like the UAW guys are too lazy to keep tabs on the Union bosses.
As far as management getting big paychecks that is the board and stockholders problem. If they want to waste money on worthless management that is taking the company down, they are the ones that will lose money.
Comments
UAW strike is slowing production at Moraine Dayton plant.
NAFTA is a touchy point because it affects the Canadians who are good trading partners.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.michaelbuble.com/
What is going on with that strike. Is it the end of those workers? Is this another factory gone south?
The recordings are better than his in-person voice through the amplification system. But I enjoyed it (I like LES Elgart/Larry Elgart and big band sound -- he has a GREAT band and showcased them during the show as individuals not just "the band." This was first event concert I've been too in a long time. Lots of ice shows and theater but no concerts. I hate the warmup acts. Gimme the real thing even if it's only 1 hour. Buble was much longer.
USA Today strike
This is the most recent I got on Google. It sounds like the workers haven't got it that they're getting squashed like the migrants in Grapes of Wrath. Someone says that if the UAW had stood up to GM this group wouldn't be having to strike now to get what they want. Meanwhile the big landowners and businesses and government goes merrily on their way squashing the worker bees because more are coming in to do the menial tasks for less money.
I'm stunned by the relevance of Grapes of Wrath as I read it again to current economics in the US.
I thought about the strike and Rocky going to Cincinnati while passing a truckload of new Malibus on their way down I75 from the shipping yard next to the Moraine truck plant. Reps of the plant have gone to Detroit with local government leaders to tell GM that the community cares. They have production through 2010 and then the plant hasn't been assigned a new product as the Envoy and others they produce are phased out.
While the workers are overpaid, the alternative of closing the plants just to show them there's world competition out there is ruthless.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Heck, I missed you rocky! The GM bashers have been going wild in here despite the Malibu and the truly awesome CTS.
Her handlers called the Canadians just as Obama's did. She didn't put that in the advertisements we saw in Ohio about Obama talking both sides of his mouth on the issue after the debate. She also told them it was just politics.
She doesn't intend to change a thing unless it means money in the bank for her.
I'm still waiting for the solution the Democrats had that ran for Congress in 2006 for the cost of gasoline. In April Pelosi said the Democrats had a solution for the (then) high prices and the oil companies.
I'm waiting.
So don't wait for a NAFTA change. Canada has too much oil to alienate them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Imidaz: I read somewhere, recently, (sorry, no cite) that Canada's oil may not be usuable by the USA...something about the oil sands (which has 3X the oil of the Middle east, I believe) that if it gives off too many particles in refining then our environmental rules will prevent us from using the oil...my specific facts are wrong (I wish I had the article) but supposedly there is something that may prevent us from using a source of oil closer, safer, more friendly, and more voluminous, all because the wackos would rather see us all use bicycles...
The wackos kept us from building refineries, windmills, nuclear power stations. Next they'll block an available source of oil.
American Axle: Top Bargainers at Table
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Kip
Deja Vu All Over Again
Subject: Tax Rebate
This morning President Bush said each one of us would get a $1200.00 tax
rebate. It was previously slated to be $1400.00, but they dropped it to
a $1200.00 tax rebate because of various budget problems.
Now, if we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China,
if we spend it on computers, most of the money will go to Korea or India .
If we spend it on gasoline it will all go to the Arabs.....and none of
these scenarios will help the American ec onomy.
We need to keep that money here in America .....so the only way to keep
that money here at home is to drink beer, gamble, or spend it on
prostitution. Currently it seems that these are the only businesses
still left in the U.S. :sick:
The auto industry will lead the US out of this miserable economy. Watch Michigan and when things start getting better there the US will follow. And we jsut heard that Michigan home sales in the last few months have steadied out from plummeting so maybe things are getting better already. Of course 3.35 gas may stick a knife in that theory.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Just kidding. I mean...he doesn't owe me any money!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
So the bottom line is we are not in a recession but are headed torwards a depression !!!!!
I'm waiting for a call back on a interview with a Saturn, store. I'm putting in 60-65 hours a week and not making much money. Lot's of changes are happening at the momment here and it wasn't for the better.
I miss ya guys and I will try to get on a little more often as I didn't cover everything but you guys knew the strike would get me fired up, eh ? :P
Miss ya guys !!!
-Rocky
I thought you were going to say don't stick your pen in company ink as one of my former co-workers told me a month back.
We had a customer talking about the american axel strike and it looks like the striking workers are united as he has some relatives involved.
Rocky
As in United we stand, United we fall. Every time a group strikes in this country I think of the 80,000 plus grocery clerks here in Souther Ca. Their 3 month stand gained them nothing and lost them a bunch. By the time they went back to work they got less than they were offered before the strike. How long do you think it will take GM to round up an offshore manufacturer for the stuff they need? The strike has gone on too long now to be good for the workers.
Rocky
"The old ways of doing business are gone" - Ford to their US hourly workers today on the last day to sign up for the buyout/early retirement packages.
Ford Motor Buyout Offer Coming to an End (Houston Chronicle)
That is an excellent summary!
Kip
Now they haven't had a new contract and don't like the old wage scale and the new one imposed by the newspaper. They put up a large billboard across from the newspaper's printing plant (which the newspaper built OUTSIDE the city of Dayton and the immediate area when they editorialized about companies leaving Dayton). They haven't had any newspaper coverage in the Dayton Daily News.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLb1npylA4
The newspaper broke the delivery people's union a decade ago when they built the big new printing plant in the next county. Now the worm has turned on the editorial staff and reporters.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Bill better be careful. If the fecal matter strikes the rotating electrical cooling device, society will revert to the pecking order of high school and guys like him will be stuffed in lockers or tossed naked into the girls' shower.
Now they haven't had a new contract and don't like the old wage scale and the new one imposed by the newspaper. They put up a large billboard across from the newspaper's printing plant (which the newspaper built OUTSIDE the city of Dayton and the immediate area when they editorialized about companies leaving Dayton). They haven't had any newspaper coverage in the Dayton Daily News.
You Tube of rally
Other paper reference
The newspaper broke the delivery people's union a decade ago when they built the big new printing plant in the next county. Now the worm has turned on the editorial staff and reporters.
For the first time today I saw a 5 inch article about the conflict way back into the paper. I suspect it's there only because Senator Sherrod Brown showed up in support.
News article
It's not UAW but it is from a historically UAW area, until many of them didn't get paid as much as they used to be.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When I took the buyout and retired, our company was trying to downsize. The older guys that thought about taking the buyout and retiring are now stuck working. If they decide to retire there will not be a nice cash bonus in their 401K. Shortly after I took the buyout the oil prices went up and along with it the work load went up. Now my old company is trying to find trained people. They have gone from 8 to 14 technicians and need more. It is not for everyone and they have had turnover. One left for a much higher paying job with Conoco Phillips. He got a $55k per year raise going from a Union job to a NON-Union job.
You cannot be stuck in a rut. Chances are that you will die in that same rut.
PS
Bill Gates would have to marry someone at work. He never leaves the office. I'm surprised he has a kid..
I would love to see a media person like Dan Rather "flippin' burgers" to survive.
The UAW had its run, and their greed or inability to alter working conditions "forced" automakers to move their plants elsewhere...but we know we can make good cars because the "imports" have been building here as fast as Big 3 are shutting them down...the difference is that the new workers are more broadly trained and more flexible, and not polluted/spoiled/brainwashed by the union work rules and the union mentality...for anyone to actually expect in this day to only be trained to install lug nuts, and to expect to be paid for sitting still if no lug nut installers are needed, while door installers are running short, is not based in reality...
The union will not die, but union work rules and the crap the union pulled over the last 40 years is gone...it's time the automworkers joined the real working world, where your employer sends you where they need you, not in the one area you want to work for the next 40 years...
The UAW has really two choices, adapt or wither away...now, if they strike too much, the company may not spend time in extended negotiations, they may just shut the plant and move tomorrow, and the workers may show up just in time to see the last milling machine being removed just before imploding the plant, whiel they watch their jobs implode with it...
Failure to adapt...it is that simple...in terms of Darwin, that which will not or cannot adapt will become extinct...immutable law of nature...
Delivery people's union? Yeesh. :confuse:
I don't recall if that was the people who drop the paper at the door; I believe those are contract carriers. The union was those who handled the papers after printing and put them onto delivery vehicles which fan out in the early morning hours to spread the news to the great-unwashed living away from the ivory tower of the newspaper's editors and their opinion and slant on what gets printed and what doesn't get printed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Gee, you say that like it's a bad thing. :shades:
Bill did so leave the office, Gary. Every time he did he got pied though.
Some interesting tidbits in this Retiring Daimler exec recalls Chrysler's last big turnaround interview with the Detroit News.
Haven't seen much in the way of firm buyout numbers at Ford - "UAW workers have said they expect only several thousand to accept the buyouts, far fewer than took offers in 2006." Reuters
There was a separate union just for that? Wow, that's some featherbedding. :sick:
I guess that is why I'm pro-union because seniority seems like the only feasible way to eliminate favoritism, descrimination, etc, when going for promotions like in the skill trades !!!
Just my $0.02 opinion !!!!
Rocky
I am older than Bill Clinton. It was not less expensive when I graduated from High School. My ex-wife had a big college loan to go to a local college. Unless you worked full time and went to college or your parents paid your way it was EXPENSIVE. If you were a go getter you could get a scholarship. Or if you played sports you could get a scholarship. Nothing is changed. Just inflation has made it look like more. I know my folks could not afford to send me to college. I was helping support them. I think it is easier now with all the freebie guvmint programs. The best way was the GI bill. That made it worth doing time in the military.
http://qbrundage.com/michaelb/pubs/essays/working_at_microsoft.html
Really? Let's see...
My family live in an Atlanta suburb single family house with a 2-car garage. Dad is a realtor (not a "hot shot" realtor) and mom is retired. Dad drives a '05 Toyota 4Runner, mom drives a '99 Camry and my younger sister has my beat-up '97 Accord. Mom and Dad supported me through college with the federal FAFSA student aids and my own HOPE scholarship, I also lived at home in order to relief some of their financial burdens. After college I got accepted into graduate school with full scholarship and research assistantship which covered my full tuition and provided additional $1,500 a month. Just so you know, this kind of financial assistance is pretty common for all engineering major students with an above average GPA. I graduated with a MS in Aerospace Engineering in summer '06 and had jobs lined up for me to choose. Right now I am working for a major defense contractor in LA and able to afford a pretty nice brand new Lexus IS350.
My sister right now is pretty much following my path (FAFSA, HOPE scholarship, you know the drill by now...) but instead of doing engineering she double majors in pre-law and psychology. Her goal is to become a prosecutor or some sort.
As you can see, we are just a normal middle class family like most other people in this country. One doesn't have to be ubber wealthy in order to receive world-class higher education and be successful.
Now I've been out of college many years so I won't use my example but I have my oldest daughter going to the local county college. I feel the pinch of paying it and I'm by no means wealthy but we manage. When she finishes there she'll be onto a four year college but half the degree is pretty reasonable.
I have a niece and nephew who are each putting themselves through college. It can be done.
Oh, Bill and Melinda Gates are over in India or some other third-world toilet helping the poor. Shoot, Bill! There are plenty of poor in Detroit, North Philly, Appalachia, Mississippi, and even the great state of Washington itself who would appreciate your help! Charity starts at home, Bill! If you're such a great philanthropist, help your fellow Americans and to heck with the rest of the world!
I know a lot of people in IT and a lot of them say these guys they bring in on H1B visas from India and China are dumb as rocks, can't communicate, and have a lot of personal and hygiene habits that leave a lot to be desired. Meanwhile, these companies are laying off thousands of highly qualified older individuals who are U.S. citizens. Companies don't want to hire these older guys and these extremely intelligent people end up working menial jobs any high school drop out could do. I knew one older gentleman who was once a software engineer working at the multiplex selling tickets because he couldn't get another IT job due to his age.
The most disgusting thing I heard was that the American IT worker must train his foreign replacement under threat of forfeiture of his severance pay! I'm surprised IT workers just don't hijack the IT infrastructure and bring the whole system crashing down until these despicable practices are stopped!
Now, you mention student aid and scholarships (rocky mentioned being white, I don't know if you are considered a minority or not). I'm sure your above average GPA helped with assistance. But I looked up prices from 50 years ago and this is what I come up with:
House: $30,000
Average income: $4,650
Ford car: $1967-$3929
Milk: $1.01
Gas: $.24
Bread $.19
Postage stamp: $.04
Chef Boy-Ar-Dee spaghetti, 15 1/2 .oz can.: $ .19
Corned Beef: $.59 lb.
Swiss Steak: $.75 lb.
Libby Tomato Juice, 5 (46 .oz) cans: $1.00
Kraft Carmels, 1 lb pkg: $.37
Milk: $.42 half gal.
Uncle Ben’s Rice, 14 oz box - $.19
Sunkist Oranges, 5 lbs.: $.49
Cantaloupe: $.05 lb.
Celery: $.04 lb.
Tuition at Harvard: $1,250 yr.
Nathan's Hot Dog: $.25
Roundtrip airfare London to New York: $453
Now, what you'll notice is that alot (not all) of items are about 1/10th of what they are today. Here in RI $300,000 will get you a modest home, and $46,000 a yr. is about right. You'll notice Harvard's tuition is $1,250 in 1958. Today, it's a whopping $32,557, WITHOUT ROOM AND BOARD!!!! Now, to be fair, the article on the Harvard web site also talks about student aid (in the form of scholarships, jobs, and loans) that will reduce the burden (that, given your stated modest means, I assume you would have qualified for) to $10,500 a yr., which is more in line with price increases over the last 50 yrs. What I can't find is what the average assistance would've been 50 yrs ago. But 2 things that have outpaced inflation in recent years are college tuition and health insurance premiums.
Second, I don't care about how much a college education cost 50 years ago. I went in at 2000 and graduated with a master's in 2006 as stated in the previous post.
Last but not least, if one can't afford Harvard then go to a good public school. Universities like UC Berkeley, UCLA and Georgia Tech are all good school which provides world class education at a much lower cost than those Ivy league schools.
The bottom line is that there are options out there, one just have to look for it.
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/UnitedStates/Grants/default.htm?showYear=2008
PS
Is the UAW still on strike at Axle?
Second of all, Using Harvard was just a reference-that's it. Nothing more-nothing less. The point was that the tuition went up 30X's while wages went up 10X's. Tuition HAS outpaced inflation, just like healthcare premiums have.
Thirdly, I guess you missed the last segment of my comment, where Harvard's tuition assistance could allow people like you and me to attend for just $10,500, more inline w/ inflation over the years.
So how is UAW management any more deserving of a raise than GM management? They both are partners in cutting the cost of labor.
Gagrice, that is just crazy to point that out !!! :confuse:
-Rocky
I don't think it is. If he was able to negotiate a 3% increase for the members then he deserves a 3% increase. If memory serves me there were losses in the last contracts. The UAW is not a for profit organization. He should make more than the members. But getting a raise when the workers are taking cuts does not look good. I guess I was just too involved with our local to accept that. Most years the Business agents made less than the guys in our unit. We were the highest paid so it was kind of a sore subject with the Union bosses. The head guy (secretary/treasurer) only made a slight bit more than we did. They are elected by the members and paid by the members. Sounds like the UAW guys are too lazy to keep tabs on the Union bosses.
As far as management getting big paychecks that is the board and stockholders problem. If they want to waste money on worthless management that is taking the company down, they are the ones that will lose money.