You are speaking to the choir...you seem to think that I believe that attorneys are above the law because they may know a judge...I am first in line to suggest reporting an attorney to the Bar for unethical behavior or a host of other infractions...I have ALWAYS believed that airing our dirty laundry, no matter how painful, is the best so that the public can see that we police our own...I apologize if my thinking disappoints you, but I do beieve in upholding standards...
As far as, say, DUI, there is almost always a fine and some jail time here in GA...remember, there are only so many folks that we can fit in the jails, so I would rather fine a DUI and save room for the murderers, rapists, armed robbers, child molesters, just to name a few...
If you would prefer to release them so that some lousy DUI at 0.10 BAC can sit in jail, let me know, but I think that is misguided thinking...
If we had umlimited space we could place every offender in jail...but we don't so we can't...and THAT is the reality that we face in the Court system, that we must prioritize the space for the worst offenders...
Is the system perfect???...of course not...if we had the space they have out in the Arizona desert, we could send them to boot camp like that sheriff who makes them live in so much agony that they never want to go back there...3 meals daily is 3 servings of bread and water, no A/C, live in tents, no TV, kinda similar to Cool hand Luke, which, BTW, I am all in favor of...chain gangs should NEVER have been eliminated...nothing like backbreaking work to make someone change their attitude..."What we have here is a failure to communicate"
tedebear: I do not know of the report, but I am simply looking at what the Big 3 will do, and I would be surprised, no, shocked, if they replace all those "buyout workers" one for one...it simply ain't gonna happen, and we will watch the UAW wither from the mighty redwood it once was to something about 1/3 the size...they forced the creation of "make work" jobs that never should have been created, but the profits were there so they were "absorbed" into overhead...with the steady loss of quality over 20-plus years, leading to sales down and profits down, there isn't the fluff to keep those who were never needed from Day One...reality has struck, and they are shedding unnecessary bloat that will never be replaced back to what it was...Ozzie and Harriet are dead, and so are the featherbedding days of the UAW...
It really is simple, and all anyone has to do to comprehend this is to pull their head out of the sand and watch...it is called Competition and the Real Market, and it is tough out there...
For all of my criticism, I believe that the Big 3 are improving and doing the right thing...but whoever said it was right...had they done this 25 years ago instead of wishing that Honda/Toy would simply go away, they WOULD have a greater market share, and the japanese would not be on such an offensive...
No one can or will deny that it was the japanese competition with better quality that (literally) exposed the Big 3 for the junk it was making, simply by making a better product...if the Big 3 had judged the threat properly, instead of calling it a flash in the pan, it would be different today...
They have awakened, and it is not too late...they are now doing with labor in a few years what could have been done over 10 years with less shock, but, like the heroin addict going cold turkey, they will either survive or perish...
I believe they will survive, but the unneeded, featherbedded workers must be shed NOW, as they simply do NOT need that many to make the amount of product they are making...
I have nothing to do with GM except for being an occasional customer.
The problem with GM was a sr. management team that did not put the needed priority on QUALITY, especially on the electrical side, including chassis wiring and accessories. Any GM car that I've had in the last 25 years was besieged with electrical failures. Consumer Reports verifies it. Some intermittent, others not. In any case these are the most expensive and most difficult problems to fix. Profits would have followed quality but unreliable cars lose resale value and that makes them more expensive.
Secondly the management team did not have the vision to design a vehicle that was forward thinking, leading edge and more advanced than the Japanese and Europeans. Now they have to worry about the Koreans and others.
Problem number one was a BOD that allowed the CEO to skate by without meeting any strategic results. They should have given him a 2 year contract with only minimal base compensation. If noticeable improvement in strategic measurement such as quality and customer ratings was not noted the CEO should have been kicked out with out bonuses of any kind.
>"Look up the latest figures and then come back and show me where ANY of the Big Three takes twice as many manhours to build a vehicle as it does ANY foreign car plant."
This is interesting! Please reference the post where Marsha7 said the Big 3 takes twice as many.
>"Are you down south? They got cheap labor down there, that is why the pants got moved there, not because your dumb, your life style is less then ours, If you would get the same money that we would we would all have are jobs and are homes and the economy would not be go in the [non-permissible content removed]...... "
Yep, I'm down south of the Hartsfield (Atlanta) airport! Home of GM Doraville, Chevy Lakewood, and Ford Hapeville. All are out of business now. All were UAW! Were they moved to your area, with the "More", Lifestyle ? :confuse:
Are you saying the housing and auto are going out of business, because of the south ???
>" If you would get the same money that we would we would all have are jobs and are homes and the economy would not be go in the [non-permissible content removed]......"
Those that were employed by the above plants did get the UAW wages. Are you saying, they didn't need it because of the "less" life style here? Or are you saying that everyone should have been paid according to UAW standards?
>"I have 21 years in the car biz... selling them and now in the service dept....I went to the service dept. is because the sale dept was and is going under.... "
My oldest has been selling cars for about 14 years. I think he would agree with you. The service departments of the Big 3 are doing a lot more business than the sales floors. Does that suggest anything?
Does it seem a bit strange to you that the "Rice Burners" are building plants "South" of Detroit and thriving, as are their lower paid employees?
My car selling son lives in southern Indiana. Another of my sons is in construction in the Chicago area. Visits up there show me that living expenses are considerably higher than here. Much less house for the same money, higher utilities, ETC..
You didn't say it, but those that think us southerners are backward and not overly bright, might stop and take a look at how we actually do live and enjoy life. But please stop retiring down here and telling us how you did it up there! We don't care.
Nothing better than attending a NASCAR event at AIR while munching on deep fried rattlesnake and sipping home brew. Now that is lifestyle! :shades:
The problem with GM was a sr. management team that did not put the needed priority on QUALITY, especially on the electrical side, including chassis wiring and accessories. Any GM car that I've had in the last 25 years was besieged with electrical failures. Consumer Reports verifies it. Some intermittent, others not. In any case these are the most expensive and most difficult problems to fix. Profits would have followed quality but unreliable cars lose resale value and that makes them more expensive.
You have a point there. My Suburban has so many electrical gremlins that sometimes I think they may have left an employee in the dash just to mess with me (probably still on payroll, LOL).
I push the button for fog lights and the rear washer pump runs. When I put is in reverse sometimes the rear wiper moves one swipe. I've decided not to fix those items, but have spent money fixing a 4wd dash switch, and several electrical components behind the dash so I could have heat that doesn't stay on the hottest setting for the driver while letting cold air in freezing the passenger.
When I took it to the dealer, they knew exactly what was wrong w/o looking at it and all the parts were in stock. So I must not be alone regarding these issues.
This is interesting! Please reference the post where Marsha7 said the Big 3 takes twice as many.
Okay, I'll copy and paste it again:
Lat's make it even simpler...if you have 100 people making cars, and you lose 50 and can still make the same amount of cars, wouldn't ANY logical person, and even rocky, admit that the 50 extra workers were simply a drag on company profits because they were never needed???...
If you look at the paragraphs above that statement it makes several references to the UAW being overstaffed. The "Lat's make it even simpler" gives a clearer example of what the message is saying.
I agree that not all of the Ford buyouts will be replaced with new workers. Most of that is due to product demand, or lack of it. However, there is absolutely no way they will get the same product volume out the door with 50% of the workers and the Harbour report shows that the gap is very, very close.
The MB with perhaps the worst reputation in the history of the company - the ML - is made in Alabama.
I think we should offshore legal knowledge to India. No reason people in Bangalore can't deciper the intentionally nebulous legalese and provide service at 10% the cost.
I agree !!! I'm paying my attorney $200 dollars and hour in Texas, so I have a hard time having somebody who probably charges that much to their clients tell me what a UAW autoworker should make. Pleeeaze !!!! :confuse:
Holy Cow !!! :surprise: I guess when the one who preaches free market has his job replaced by someone from india who will work for 75% less then perhaps that idea wasn't such a good one !!!
sorry, pal, once again your youth and lack of understanding of history prior to Bill Clinton will always come back and bite you in the ***********... :P
I guess the age of someone is the way you judge people's comprehension, intellegence, knowledge. Some of the absolute dumbest people I've ever met and/or know are much older than me. Just because I was young in the Pre-Clinton, years I did live in the Reagan, years where he flushed our economy down the toilet with deficit spending. He literally killed unions and employers got the upper hand on the working class and we've been climbing a up hill battle ever since. We also had a bunch of recessions during his tenure as president but I'm sure all of those were Carter's fault just like everything wrong today in the U.S. is still Clinton's fault. If you don't believe me listen to Rush, for an hour !!!.
The bottom line is you can poke fun of my youth and claim I'm dumb and not as smart as a "lawyer" and you of course "know better" because you went to "college forever". I love how you poke fun of my "experience" but it sounds like to me your experience is that of reading press clippings in the out-house by a slanted writer.
What's your experience outside of a court-room or a office ??? I'm writing this with a smile as it's so funny arguing with a lawyer, who is using "age" as a means to judge a person. If I was 15 you might have a leg to stand on. I will bite my tongue to not "offend" my elder on what I really think.
I am east of Atlanta, and I forgot about GM Lakewood, I was just thinking Hapeville (Ford) and Doraville (GM)...
rocky...is post 2424 directed at me, or someone else???...if me, I need to respond, if not, I can go back to sleep...
I am not referring to man Hours, per se...when you count the number of employees that were paid exorbitantly simply to sweep the floor, or those who went to the Jobs Bank (an oxymoron if there ever was one, getting a full week's pay to sit and drink coffee), I do not know if they are actually considered "production workers", so when I say that they can lose 50% of their employees and still make the same vehicles, I am stating that many of those who are employed are simply featherbedded jobs that were never necessary to begin with and were created out of the bloat of the profits of the past...
ManHours per vehicle sounds like you are using the actual number of people who are on the line making the cars...also, I would assume that ManHours would be reduced for every robot that does some job somewhere, like painting, welding, or dipping the chassis in anti-rust solution...
Because some believe the company should only exist to provide jobs and that profits only feed greedy management and shareholders.
Well some believe a company should only exist to feed the "Fat Cats, until they suck that saucer dry and are not held accountable for any actions as each one of them have golden parachute strings to pull. Some also believe it is neccessary for the company to exist as a means for people to buy it's stock one day and dump it the next. There is no loyalty in the market but their is loyalty from employees of that company. I guess that does not matter. :sick:
Fortunately, I was not one of those "college forever" people you refer to...you can only take so much classroom before your rear end hurts...those chairs are NEVER comfortable...
Age, in and of itself, offers nothing except the passage of time...and, I, too, have met folks in the 60s,70s that still do not understand how turn signal lights work...
But you consistently comment on the Carter/Reagan years as though you actually lived them, when you were either unborn or in your child years...
You literally have no idea how this nation was embarassed by the hostage crisis in Iran, and how utterly useless carter was as a President...while Reagan was certainly not perfect, he restored pride back in this nation, rebuilt our military (which would NOT have run up such deficits if Carter had not run it down so quickly) and did get the economy going again simply by cutting tax rates FOR EVERYBODY, and that is where your youth and lack of experience shows in every post...
All tax brackets were lowered in 1981-1983 (+ or-), and then, in 1986, he created two tax brackets, 15% and 28%...please tell me how that only favored the rich...no, it favored anybody who made money, from lower middle class all the way to upper class...you have been listening to your union buddies who taught you that Reagan was against the common man...he WAS against unions bullying the country, so he fired PATCO, and rightfully so...but he cut the common man's taxes by cutting the rates, and that caused federal revenues to grow from 500 Billion in 1980-1981 to 900 Billion in 1988-1989...
The rwason I atribute your lack of comprehension of reality to your youth is simply because you DID NOT live it, you literally know NOTHING about it, and, attributing it to anything other than your youth would be personally insulting to you, and I will not stoop to that level...
You did not live thru 20% inflation, 10% unemployment (when there WERE NO Japanese cars taking UAW jobs) and the humiliation of this nation under Carter...so your comments about it are really quite hollow...all you know, or think you know, is rah-rah from your union buddies who simply hate Reagan because of PATCO...
I think it was Will Rogers who said, "It ain't what we don't know that is so bad, it is what we know that ain't so that is so bad"...
What you know simply ain't so, so when you rail on about some topics, you really have no idea what you are talking about...period...
Umm...no, your original statement suggests the UAW is overstaffed by 50% and that they can build the same amount of vehicles if they eliminate 50% of their workforce. That's not even close to what you backpedaled on in this last message.
LOL, yeah one would think a expert on labor, would of read a few more facts on the subject. I guess since he lived it those facts don't matter.
Have you ever heard of the Harbour Report?
Obviously he hasn't. I guess he like bumpy, believes it's a union bought and paid for organization. :confuse:
It is a measure of how many hours per vehicle (HPV) is required to build a product. Whether a worker is installing seats directly into the vehicle, doing a sub assembly job offline, or an inspector running tests in another part of the facility they all count toward the manpower hours needed to get the final product out the door.
Look up the latest figures and then come back and show me where ANY of the Big Three takes twice as many manhours to build a vehicle as it does ANY foreign car plant.
And if you want to talk about things before the Clinton era, I'm all ready. I'm old enough to belong to AARP and I've been a UAW member for over 24 years and counting.
LOL, it's funny how some people who have "lived it" well have a selective memory of what happened around them.
an Edmunds Forum contributor has actually identified theirself as a UAW member. That's kind of...umm...revealing in a way.
Tell us about this jobs bank deal. Workers actually get paid to sit around and pick their nose and watch 'The Price is Right?' Since they've loyally paid their union dues and there is no real work for them they have "earned" the UAW right to sit there and eat raspberry jelly donuts and drink fine 'Seattle's Best' coffee and watch the bucks roll in. Doesn't that sound a tad retarded to y'all?
Oh, silly me. It's only a "temporary" thing. Eldon will be back in his "real" UAW job as soon as Joe takes a vacation and opens up a spot. Does this even start sounding overly spendful to you? Yikes. Gotta build us some more oversized, over-priced GM vehicles that the loyalists will slather up with quite some favor. Talk about the royal automotive treatment. This is only some of the twisted, money-losing thinking that has made things overly tough on those called upon to "save" the domestic manufacturers.
It's funny how some who made the so-called big bucks and sucked it in at the time will fault those that are presently there all because they switched careers. :confuse:
I suppose iluv would rather these people sit home sucking down coffee and watching The Price is Right on the PUBLIC DOLE instead of the private one that the jobs bank is.
You gotta remember alot of these folks were doing volunteer work representing GM. If they can pay Tiger Woods, tens of millions to advertise a certain car then what's wrong with having UAW workers temporary helping out at the Red Cross, sell automobiles, for a paycheck. Yeah, some did sit in the break room but the jobs bank was suppose to be a temporary program for displaced or un needed autoworkers that might be faced with slow times. Another program they had was sub-pay where UAW employees would take volunteer lay-off for a few weeks so the less seniority employees could work. They got 90% of their pay to stay at home for a few weeks paid by the UAW.
My step-grandfather worked at Boeing for 35 years in Witchita, Kansas and during the slow times they ate a few extra Jelly Doughnuts and drinked a few extra cups of coffee. Get my drift bumpy ?
I think I've said all I can on this age topic. Your view of the world in the 80's and mine is totally the opposite. I hate Ronald Reagan, with a passion because of what he did to unions and how he expanded outsourcing. I remember exactly what that senial, insane, old geezer, who read his speeches from cue cards. Corporate America, owned him. I'm not going to take this topic off into left field but you don't have to "live it" you can "research it" and see what laws passed on his watch. :mad:
I also will say I was more in tune than your average child because I "experienced" a lot because of my grandparents
You gotta remember alot of these folks were doing volunteer work representing GM. If they can pay Tiger Woods, tens of millions to advertise a certain car then what's wrong with having UAW workers temporary helping out at the Red Cross, sell automobiles, for a paycheck.
The difference is that Tiger Woods sells Buicks by endorsing them. Those in the jobs bank just raise the cost per vehicle. The jobs banks would have been less of a glaring problem if they were tied to getting re-trained. If you collect a pay check you are taking classes and getting a passing grade. This would have been a benefit to the employee. Enslaving them to a rubber room is not healthy for their minds. You cannot spin that entitlement into anything that is good. That was the dumbest thing the automakers allowed themselves to sign onto. Then comes health care for the life of the retiree.
As far as GM paying them not to work or the government. Unemployment compensation is paid by the corporations.
I think because you and some others are so close to the auto makers that foundations like the Harbour report mean something to you. I never heard of it until this thread was started. Each profession has publications that are specific to that field. They are of little interest to anyone else. And statistics put out by Harbour or CR or JD Powers are just data arranged to tell a story. I want to know what the total cost is per car. With all extraneous costs. Including the golden parachutes given to non productive management.
The jobs bank supposedly helped the unused workers look for work and take training courses, such as on the computers present, to expand their opportunities for employment elsewhere.
I thought the term was limited for the worker in jobs bank. I recall some articles about the jobs band in Kettering. Dayton is a suburb of Kettering along with Moraine where an IUE plant is located.
Didn't the jobs bank occur because the auto companies had agreed not to reduce employment below a certain level at certain plants for a certain number of years when they agreed to some contracts. So they couldn't reduce workers at a particular plant under those constraints. Hence those unneeded workers didn't show up at the work line but they showed up at the jobs bank location.
The article I recall described many as biding their time and a few feverishly making use of the resources, job hunts, college online classes, and I believe classes at the local (3) universities and junior college.
Carter's effect on me: I was in the 35% marginal federal income tax bracket while making less than today's minimum wage during Carter's last year in office. I bought a house in the year after Carter left office and 30 yr. fixed mortgage rates were 17.5% on my closing day. My rent was increasing 15% a year under Carter so I bought a house anyway.
Reagan's effect on me: Iran was s*itting on our country and laughing about it hard in 1979, but they knew they had to free the hostages at about 9PM on election day in 1980 when the country dumped Carter. Within 2 years I was in the 15% marginal tax bracket and I'm still in it.
Unions fought for and won important benefits for all workers. My family survived on union wages growing up, but if a Carpenter's Union worker didn't pull their weight they were physically attacked because if the union hall didn't perform, they didn't get the next job or jobs and men and their families went hungry. 24 years later, when I got to work amongst the UAW, I told my dad that the fast workers (new hires at reduced pay) were screamed and yelled and cussed at by the ones with 25-30 years in, threatening them to slow down to maybe 60% production rate or there would be big trouble. This was done in front of the management. Quite a contrast in attitudes. Go getters -vs- thugs. Today, all 31,000 GM jobs are gone from my county. Every last one. What company can afford to let a capable person put out 60% while demanding other co-workers do likewise, and while the Third world joins the global economy, willing to work for as little as 9 cents an hour, and is quickly becoming your competition?
do you think I miss my wacky Boeing job with suck-ups around every corner? The SPEEA union mentality that "let's fight against Mr.Big Boeing man, even if we don't understand what we're fighting for"...let's just fight.I couldn't believe it, in 2000 we struck Boeing for better wages, better health care benefits, etc. It was the longest white collar strike in U.S. history...45 days long.
The first offer from Boeing, that SPEEA members "fought off" and voted no on ended up being the better offer than the second Boeing offer that SPEEA "recommended" a yes vote on. The union thugs had everybody all so gung-ho to fight that they were blinded to the contracts details. We would have saved on health insurance and the pay part of it was just arranged differently, so that either offer would've worked out fine. But the benefits were worse on the second, agreed-to offer! I know for sure that they were, I studied the minutia in enlarged detail to make sure of this. They were blinded with union stupidity. Can I get a witness here? Marsha? Does this sound like you've heard this type of stuff before?
After the strike ended they were all tromping around "we showed 'em, yeah, rah-rah-rah!"
What a bunch of hyperactive dorks. Unions are a crock. No, Boeing can fall in to the Puget Sound and their managers can wrestle with some of the larger octopii down at the bottom for all I care. I've never worked at such a politically-charged, dopey, Seattle's Best and raspberry donut sparkled place in all my life. Trouble is, I spent nearly 20 years working towards retirement there and some stupid, short-sighted group of know-it-all suckups decides to outsource a whole group's work. Yeah, it's all about the money. Nobody is deemed permanently helpful to the money-grubbers and business suit dorks who "must know it all"...I mean, they're wearing these grey suits and wear their Boeing badges proudly.
I was a union worker who worked hard and worked towards saving the company money, too. I didn't need some stupid continuous quality improvement Deming program to point me towards that. I just did it on my own because I knew it was right. And how did I get rewarded? Pink slip and a little nip of Boeing's fortune to go re-train in a real career. The Pacific NW can have and suckle Boeing to their hearts content. The big war against evil empire Airbus Industrie. Enjoy it, dorks and know-it-alls. The SPEEA union mentality was a joke and still is and really is as ineffectual an entitiy as could suck money off of members.
rocklee...whoever can suck a good salary off of mad Boeing can have at it. That whole area is a soul-sucking angst-ridden cesspoool of grey, drizzly skies and dreary depression. I favor the hot and sunny Arizona desert and a chance to directly help people with their health. I feel like I can have some control over my career, not being ping-ponged around like at Boeing by know-nothings in grey suits who wouldn't know a smart, honest hard-working employee if it hit them over their thick skulls dead-on.
My second pink slip was a real blessing to me and the SPEEA union remains just one more dopey factor in the Boeing game that leaves one with an insecure, shaky future and less money in your pocket at the same time.
I am happy to be an Allied Healthcare, non-unionized employee in the land of Geronimo and General Crook and Fort Bowie.
when I got to work amongst the UAW, I told my dad that the fast workers (new hires at reduced pay) were screamed and yelled and cussed at by the ones with 25-30 years in, threatening them to slow down to maybe 60% production rate or there would be big trouble.
One of my best friends that I worked with for 37 years came to Alaska as an IBEW telephone installer. The first week on the job in our office he was told to slow down by the shop steward. He was terminating twice as many pairs of wires as the old timers. The IBEW in Alaska during the 1960s and 70s were known as feather bedders. One of our engineers on the installation caught wind of what was going on. He talked to my boss and we hired Bob to work directly for RCA as a Teamster. He is going to retire this year. At 63 he is still one of the fastest workers I have ever worked with. The IBEW lost several big contractors that went non-Union because of the old timers holding up jobs. So it does happen.
I am happy to be an Allied Healthcare, non-unionized employee in the land of Geronimo and General Crook and Fort Bowie.
So the right to work laws have not hindered your making a living wage? I think more people with the, Union is the only way mentality, need to see that there are opportunities outside of Union jobs.
>"You did not live thru 20% inflation, 10% unemployment (when there WERE NO Japanese cars taking UAW jobs) and the humiliation of this nation under Carter...so your comments about it are really quite hollow...all you know, or think you know, is rah-rah from your union buddies who simply hate Reagan because of PATCO... "
You got that right!
I as I was born and raised here in Georgia, I remember how proud we were that a peanut farmer from south Georgia had become president. Didn't take long for that pride to turn into something quite the opposite. What an embarrassment he was, and still is.
Before Carter was out of office the interest rates were ridiculous. Good news was that Bank Certificates of Deposit were paying 15%. Bad news was that Mortgages were 17%-19% and car loans were 19%-22%, for those with good credit. Not good for auto or housing. Unemployment was averaging around 10%. Not a healthy situation.
I well remember the PATCO situation, as I was maintaining equipment for FAA at Hampton Ga, and at the local PATCO on Phoenix Blvd. in College park. On the surface, PATCO was wanting better working conditions for the controllers. That is what the news media were told and what they were reporting. In conversations during lunch, it became very apparent that money was also an issue. In fact money was THE issue. More than once I heard, that "THEY" were underpaid when compared to the Pilots. "Sick-outs" were running rampart, and it was a very dangerous situation with Planes flying around and not enough control or guidance from the ground. When Reagan took office, he gave them a time frame to get back to work so that the skys could be safer while negotiations took place.
Some came back. Those that didn't were fired. He kept his word. He didn't bust the Union. They busted themselves. They were trying to hold the entire country, and the feds hostage, through the airline industry, and it backfired on them.
To add insult to injury, PATCO started trying to help their "Fallen" soldiers by finding them jobs. Why was it an insult? Because PATCO was charging for that service. In effect they became an employment agency with a captive audience of the very people they had persuaded to "Hang" in there and the Government will fold! :sick:
Yes, I felt for those guys. Some had become friends. They were living a good life one day and facing hard times the next. They Believed their Union Leaders!
A lot of them were re hired after a time frame. Of course we didn't hear much about that from the liberal Reagan hating press.
>"if you have 100 people making cars, and you lose 50 and can still make the same amount of cars, wouldn't ANY logical person, and even rocky, admit that the 50 extra workers were simply a drag on company profits because they were never needed???... "
OK, Thanks.
Recon we were reading that from 2 different views. I thought he was saying that if the 50 remaining workers could produce the same number of cars without the 50 that were lost, it would indicate that the LOST 50 were not needed in the first place, and causing an unnecessary drain on the company.
You know what they say, rocky, there's no fool like an old fool! These guys who now mock us got to realize we'll be the ones taking care of them in their dotage.
As for Rush, he's probably called that because of all the drugs coursing through his system. The crackhead babbling underneath the elevated train probably makes as much sense as this so-called radio "personality."
That was my take on the PATCO strike. They believed their leaders and let themselves be pushed over a cliff. I also had a friend that was a ATC in Anchorage. He lost his job, then his wife, then his home. He believed you can go against the President of the USA and win. That was pure and simply STUPID. He was making more before the strike than most professionals in Anchorage. It was a high stress job and sometimes they were over worked. That is not a good enough excuse for what PATCO did. When the President is trying to establish some sense of order to a country that was in near chaos from the previous administration, you better go along or risk losing. No President in recent history had to deal with so many problems. When Reagan took office in 1981 he had the Iran hostages, higher oil prices than now, double digit interest, horrible tax rates, a gutted military. Then PATCO is going to shut down the countries air traffic. I wonder what some of these Union is the only answer folks would have done under the same circumstances.
He could have declared war on Iran and then shot them all for treason during war time.
>"You know what they say, rocky, there's no fool like an old fool! These guys who now mock us got to realize we'll be the ones taking care of them in their dotage. "
That is indeed scary!
Having someone that can't make their own decisions, make one on my behalf ? :sick:
Recon they would have to ask their union rep first. Then the rep would have to ask the committee and a vote would have to be taken. Scary stuff!
Just not worth the hassle. I'll just do as I most always have, make my own decisions, do my own negotiations, and settle in to a nursing home of my choice. :shades:
you are spot on. PATCO-Schmatco...idiots. I mean really, they would put air travellers at risk just to "fight" Reagan and get better pay and health care benefits? They shouldn't have had those air controller jobs, then, in the first place.
Hope I didn't step on anybody's toes that loves and respects The Boeing Company. It's just an irritating situation to work hard and produce important jet aircraft work and then, because of increased sales form Airbus, higher jet fuel prices, less orders coming in, the grey suits have to put down their raspberry jelly donuts for a minute and make some short-sighted decisions.
I do remember reading SPEEA union periodicals where union members were complaining about the lack of loyalty from Boeing management for it's workers, that all Boeing management cared about was making a profit for it's shareholders.
All the while the company had about 1.3B in savings and yet they can't see it in them to let some good working folks stay and work and help produce jet aircraft and work towards a Boeing retirement? And just wait out the economic negatives for a while?
Look at them now, if I were out of my mind and wanted to go back now would be the time, orders are rolling in and everybody is eating strawberry pie and drinking fine Seattle's Best coffee to their hearts content. Humm...it took about a year for Boeing to fire Phil Condit and start "re-firing" bullets again. Imagine that.
Suddenly orders came in, everybody wanted a 787 "Dreamliner" and life was all cherries and roses again. Some delivery delays, but that was what kept us humming on the drawing production line.
gagrice, yes, I and my two fellow Respiratory Therapists are making good pay and getting reasonable benefits(we all would love better healthcare benefits, yes)in this right-to-work state of Arizona. The hospital subs it's RT care out to a nationwide RT contractor but there's been talk of the hospital buying out our contracts from them and hiring the 3 of us direct. It would be a welcome move, same pay and better healthcare benefits through the hospital. Hope it happens.
He could have declared war on Iran and then shot them all for treason during war time.
OOPS, I forgot we did not have any military left. We sent our best to rescue the hostages. We ended up with broken down helicopters & dead soldiers out in the desert.
the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw, on April 24, 1980, which resulted in an aborted mission and the deaths of eight American military men.
PATCO should have taken the clue that Reagan was a man to be reckoned with when the Iranians let the hostages go the day he was inaugurated.
You should have lots of patients out there in the high desert. Many folks go there to help respiratory conditions. They used to go to Phoenix. Now it has worse air than Los Angeles.
Many businesses use sub contractors for employees they do not want to make permanent. Gives them a chance to watch and pick out the good workers. The oil companies in Alaska did that a lot. They would hire Union (IBEW) technicians to fill in for a while. If they liked them they would offer them a permanent job. With MUCH better pay and benefits than the IBEW guys were getting. When I left the BP techs were all making over $130k per year. For 24 weeks work per year. That was almost $20k more per year than we were getting for the same work as Teamsters.
It's great to finally come out of the shadows, where I've been lurking for several months reading this forum while helping others save thousands of dollars on their new car purchase in other Carspace forums.
Someone on here recently said the days of good paying jobs without a college degree are over. They may want to read the article listed below for a second opinion. Here are some highlights:
The belief that you need a college education to have a well-paying and rewarding job is quickly fading. A four-year degree definitely has its benefits in the business world, but it’s not the only path to a successful career.
In fact, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), eight of the 10 fastest-growing occupations through 2014 don’t require a bachelor's degree.
So while a college degree was de rigueur for the baby boom generation, that's not necessarily the case now.
That is a good list. Anyone looking for a career or career change would be advised to look that list over carefully.
The automotive technician of today can make a handsome wage. In 2005 when I flew to Portland and bought a Passat TDI, the service manager was lamenting his head mechanic/technician had left to go to work at the Cadillac dealership. He got a substantial raise from the $140k per year he made there at the VW/Buick dealership.
As the article says most of the jobs listed would be nearly impossible to outsource to India or China.
Someone on here recently said the days of good paying jobs without a college degree are over. They may want to read the article listed below for a second opinion. Here are some highlights:
No doubt you can be successful w/o a degree, you have to be motivated/hungry whether you have a degree or not.
The one thing that is misleading about that list is the statement a Bachelor's degree is not required. Sure, a bachelor degree may not be required, but no doubt you'll be competing with poeple who have a degree for many of those jobs.
The list didn't say no college require, but a Bachelor's degree not required. Meaning, education beyond HS is still relevant and important.
No to mention college/extensive training is required to be an air traffic controller as listed below:
There are several ways to become an air traffic controller. Many are trained while in the military and after their service is completed, the FAA can hire them. If not a part of the armed forces, civilians can attend one of the 14 colleges recognized by FAA that give degrees in aviation administration with an emphasis in air traffic control.
Minimum Requirements 30 years of age or younger United States citizen Become an employee of the Federal Aviation Administration Pass a rigid medical examination including but not limited to vision, hearing, substance abuse/dependency along with a background check (Need More Info?) Currently the FAA is hiring candidates who have graduated from one of the 14 schools* across the US:
Community College of Beaver County, Beaver Falls, Pa. Daniel Webster College, Nashua, N.H. Dowling College, Shirley, N.Y. Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Fla. Hampton University, Hampton, Va. Inter American University of Puerto Rico, Bayamon, Puerto Rico Miami-Dade College, Miami, Fla. Middle Tennessee State University, Murfreesboro, Tenn. Minneapolis Community & Technical College, Eden Prairie, Minn. Mt. San Antonio College, Walnut, Calif. Purdue University, West Lafayette, Ind. University of Alaska Anchorage, Anchorage, Ala. University of North Dakota, Grand Forks, N.D. Vaughn College, Flushing N.Y.
Hardly a situation where you'll get your H.S. diploma on Friday and be an air traffic controller on Monday
>" Sure, a bachelor degree may not be required, but no doubt you'll be competing with people who have a degree for many of those jobs."
tedebear,
Fact is that if a potential employer has 2 or more job candidates, and everything else is equal, the one with the "degree" is going to have a much better chance.
And yes there are lots of folks making really good pay checks that have never been to any form of higher education, such as college, trade schools and such.
A few ways of doing that are:
1. Do a better job than your peers, and be recognized by your employer.
2. Have a brilliant idea and enough self drive to see it through.
3. Being in the right place at the right time.
4. Marry the bosses daughter.
5. Blind luck!
6. Divine intervention.
Notice that your supplied "List" did not include assembly line workers? So many of those jobs are now being done by robots. More are done in other countries, as sub assemblies and not much skill is required to bolt 2 sub assemblies together. When not much skill required and large list of applicants meet, job value/worth goes down. I'm speaking of "ANY" assembly line.
Fact is that American manufacturers no longer have a captive audience. Companies from around the world are competing for that audience and consequently those jobs. We don't have to like it....! We do have to deal with it. You find a way to reverse that and you will be a zillionare. (See #2 above)
Advice! Listen to those that went before you. Their advice comes from experience. That experience comes from both good and bad judgment. They know what use to work, and what works now. They have "seen" the changes take place.
Take a good look around! Your success will mostly depend on you! How much drive do you have, how much good advice you accepted, and how you handled that advice.
and this is what everyone has known they stand for:
Quote: "24 years later, when I got to work amongst the UAW, I told my dad that the fast workers (new hires at reduced pay) were screamed and yelled and cussed at by the ones with 25-30 years in, threatening them to slow down to maybe 60% production rate or there would be big trouble"...
That is what featherbedding is, since more workers are needed to produce a given qualntity, since theise on the line are working at 60%...
That, rocky, is why the union movement is dying and continues to die a well-deserved death...the world is onto the crap from the union workers, and companies simply will not stand for it anymore...
You can rah-rah all you want, but if Michigan is where you think the job growth is, you may want to face reality and move...in 10 years, unions will only be found in the history books...
BTW, good luck selling Chevys...how is it going, since you have been there, oh, how long???...seems like about a year after all these posts... :P :surprise:
Oh, if your grandparents were how you learned about the Reagan years, I assume they, too, only saw the union viewpoint, so when Ronnie fired Patco, as he should, there ain't a union person out there with the ability to understand why it was right, except that if a union was affected, then they always see it as "bad"...no matter how wrong they are...
Yep !!!! When the serf n' elite society takes hold on this country and unions are gone and average folks have zero rights or recourse then these anti-union, pseudo-capitalist might rethink their position. We as a nation can't compete with 3rd world labor. It seems a few among this forum understand this. The lower the wages the less people I will see here at the dealership. Eventually U.S. automaking will be outsourced to China. We are seeing clothing manufactors move shop from Mexico, to China, as we speak because wages are $0.43 an hour vs. $2 bucks an hour. That is the consequence of the global economy. Some understand it and others well have their head buried in the sand and preach GDP numbers but can't comprehend that we've reached our peak and the decline aka "recession" is in order. You can only borrow so much or as some call it "borrow from Peter, to pay Paul" before the bankers "China, India, Russia" is going to ask for their money.
So yeah I might rah-rah-rah-rah, but I have a damn good reason to as I have young kids that are going to have to live through the disaster the so called "Greatest Generation" has left for the future. :sick: I can see "why" this country is quickly headed for the 2nd/3rd world standard because we have people that think like they do. Buying non-union Chinese Made goods might allow you to buy more of what you want but at what cost ? What happens when your company out-sources your job ??? What happens iluv, when people can't afford to go to the hospital or afford to use your services ??? What if college graduate from India, replaces you in the health care industry and Marsha7, as a attorney. laugh now but that future isn't a unrealistic scenario. We are already seeing that happen as steve, posted a link. Next they will start their lives here and uncle sam will give them a tax break to start their practice because they are a minority. I will close by saying that some of y'alls anti-union stance is formed mainly because of what some yellow belly journalist printed in the local newspaper and slanted it in favor of the company and you sitting on the "John" are cursing them without getting all the facts. We all know that writers don't lie as Al Stump, once said !!!
I acknowledge what you say, but, as a lawyer, I am always trying to give my clients the best service I can...luckily, there IS a personal aspect to what I do that cannot, IMO, be replaced by an immigrant or a foreigner...
Heck, we already have the discount competition, as folks try to sell legal forms on the Web, charging 20% of what I would charge to do the same thing...so I already experience what it is like to have someone undercut me, this is nothing new...the difference is, I accept it as part of the free market, and all you can do is preach for the union...
Whether it is an outsourced lawyer in India or discount forms on the Web, what is the difference???...I still have to deal with it, NOW...
Of course, there is one small advantage, and I do mean small...most of the forms on the Web are generic and not state specific, altho some of them may be...the ads always state that it pays to have a local lawyer review the doc to see if it is proper...so, I may make only half as much, but I spend zero time drafting it...it is not my job to determine if the doc is COMPLETE, only if it conforms with GA law...so, as long as it conforms, it is legal to file...if it leaves something out, that is their problem...they should have retained me from the start so liability would be mine...now they can just blame themselves...or the Indian lawyer 5000 miles away...
Your post above is incomplete...I still maintain that of people want industry in this country, simply stop buying "Made in China" shirts, TVs, pants, shoes, sneakers, tires, spark plugs, computers, cell phones, you name it...
rocky, the power rests in the hands of the people RIGHT NOW..,. the reason it may not work with automobiles is that, like it or not, the Big 3 ruined their reputation for quality with 2 decades of crap (and that is something your grandparents cannot comprehend and could NEVER teach to you, meaning the Carter and Reagan years, before and after), and the imports have built a rep on the quality that America lost...
But, as long as a shirt fits, a cell phone works, shoes are comfortable, the Americans stand as good a chance as anybody because the investment is so little compared to the price of a car...
So, get all your union buddies, in and out of Michigan, and tell them to boycott WalMart, Sports Authority, Sears, etc, until they stop buying Chinese products and only stock the (more expensive) products made with American labor...as soon as you say "Boycott Walmart" the howls of laughter will rise like the smoke from a volcano, because they will not do it, not for one minute...
What do you think of my idea???...is it not infallible???isn't it guaranteed to work???...if the aisles of Walmart and Sears and Sports Authority and Circuit City are empty because we won't buy Chinese products, will that not change the American employment landscape within 90 days???...
One last thought...it ain't no journalist that has given me my opinion of unions...we dealt with them in NY and I dealt with their members in Detroit...NO journalist could EVER have written anything so damning of the unions as what 10 years of dealing with them, their attitude, and their poorer quality products, will do to one's mind...it is a pleasure to watch them wither on the vine...
...you're going to bash the supposed poor quality of domestic automobiles from 20 years ago yet defend the abominable quality of Chinese goods sold at abominable retailers like Wal~Mart? How can you defend a monstrous entity like Wal~Mart? They are the personification of everything that is evil about Corporate America. I certainly won't be laughing if rocky shouts, "Boycott Wal~Mart!" I already do!
Shoot, if all the merchandise sold at Sears, Sports Authority, Circuit City and others was made here, virtually NO AMERICANS who wanted to work would be out of a job. There would be a lot less social ills like poverty, crime, drug abuse, alcoholism, child abuse, etc. as well. Come to Philadelphia which was once called "The Workshop of the World!" Postindustrial Philly is now refered to as "Killadelphia." I'm sure there would be a lot less thugs shooting people if they had viable jobs like there once were at Disston Saw, Dodge Steel, Botany 500, Stetson Hat, Baldwin Locomotive, The Budd Company, Philco, Merck, General Electric, Breyer's Ice Cream, Whitman Chocolate, etc.
I have young kids that are going to have to live through the disaster the so called "Greatest Generation"
We got 15,000 new Saudi college students in 2006. The Saudi government has requested visas for 21,000 more college students to be enrolled in our colleges this year. Can your children compete against Saudi riches just to pay tuition? Rocky, the demise of the UAW is miniscule in the BIG picture. We have illegal and legal students clamoring to get into our universities. Next it will be a huge influx of students from China and India and who knows where. The billions we waste on entitlement programs could be used as scholarships to our brightest students. We would rather spend $250 billion rebuilding that hell hole in New Orleans.
Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester.
The program will quintuple the number of Saudi students and scholars here by the academic year's end. And big, public universities from Florida to the Kansas plains are in a fierce competition for their tuition dollars.
The kingdom's royal family — which is paying full scholarships for most of the 15,000 students — says the program will help stem unrest at home by schooling the country's brightest in the American tradition. The U.S. State Department sees the exchange as a way to build ties with future Saudi leaders and young scholars at a time of unsteady relations with the Muslim world.
Administrators at Kansas State University, an agricultural school surrounded by miles of prairie grass, say the scholarships are a bonanza for public education.
"The Saudi scholarship program has definitely heightened our interest in that part of the world," said Kenneth Holland, associate provost for international programs. "Not only are the students fully funded, but they're also paying out-of-state tuition."
I just had a bowl of Breyer's ice cream. Was it made in China? I do believe our attorney friend was advocating the boycotting of Chinese made goods. I know my wife does it religiously. I know I got chewed out for buying a bag of fresh garlic that was a product of China.
I just had a bowl of Breyer's ice cream. Was it made in China? I do believe our attorney friend was advocating the boycotting of Chinese made goods. I know my wife does it religiously. I know I got chewed out for buying a bag of fresh garlic that was a product of China.
According to Breyer's website, the only facility outside of the US is in Ontario.
We have manufacturing plants in the following locations:
Clearwater, FL Framingham, MA Hagerstown, MD Henderson, NV Huntington, IN Sikeston, MO St. Albans, VT Waterbury, VT Simcoe, Ontario Our Corporate Office is located in Green Bay, WI.
Who knows where all of the incrediant's come from, but I don't think you have to worry about giving up your favorite treat anytime soon.
>Clearwater, FL Framingham, MA Hagerstown, MD Henderson, NV Huntington, IN Sikeston, MO St. Albans, VT Waterbury, VT Simcoe, Ontario Our Corporate Office is located in Green Bay, WI.
Only one of those is in the South. Haven't they recognized the expertise and cheap labor available there. What's the real reason they haven't built a plant in Missippi, Louisiana, Alabama?... I don't even consider FL the South. While visiting my sister in Boca it was more like the North translated hundreds of miles, and like Cuba creeping north.
I know. I just dug the box out of the trash. Nothing but Green Bay, WI as place of origin. My wife did go to Wal-Mart and bought an Anchor Hocking glass casserole made in USA today. She also bought 4 plastic storage containers made in USA by Sterilite of Townsend, MA. The paper napkins are also Made in USA. So we did our part today buying all made in USA products.
Now if Rocky and his friends in MI will only buy things made in USA we can get this ball rolling.
Only one of those is in the South. Haven't they recognized the expertise and cheap labor available there. What's the real reason they haven't built a plant in Missippi, Louisiana, Alabama?... I don't even consider FL the South. While visiting my sister in Boca it was more like the North translated hundreds of miles, and like Cuba creeping north.
Maybe it's because up in Green Bay they only have to run the freezers for about 3 mos. a year. LOL
Comments
As far as, say, DUI, there is almost always a fine and some jail time here in GA...remember, there are only so many folks that we can fit in the jails, so I would rather fine a DUI and save room for the murderers, rapists, armed robbers, child molesters, just to name a few...
If you would prefer to release them so that some lousy DUI at 0.10 BAC can sit in jail, let me know, but I think that is misguided thinking...
If we had umlimited space we could place every offender in jail...but we don't so we can't...and THAT is the reality that we face in the Court system, that we must prioritize the space for the worst offenders...
Is the system perfect???...of course not...if we had the space they have out in the Arizona desert, we could send them to boot camp like that sheriff who makes them live in so much agony that they never want to go back there...3 meals daily is 3 servings of bread and water, no A/C, live in tents, no TV, kinda similar to Cool hand Luke, which, BTW, I am all in favor of...chain gangs should NEVER have been eliminated...nothing like backbreaking work to make someone change their attitude..."What we have here is a failure to communicate"
tedebear: I do not know of the report, but I am simply looking at what the Big 3 will do, and I would be surprised, no, shocked, if they replace all those "buyout workers" one for one...it simply ain't gonna happen, and we will watch the UAW wither from the mighty redwood it once was to something about 1/3 the size...they forced the creation of "make work" jobs that never should have been created, but the profits were there so they were "absorbed" into overhead...with the steady loss of quality over 20-plus years, leading to sales down and profits down, there isn't the fluff to keep those who were never needed from Day One...reality has struck, and they are shedding unnecessary bloat that will never be replaced back to what it was...Ozzie and Harriet are dead, and so are the featherbedding days of the UAW...
It really is simple, and all anyone has to do to comprehend this is to pull their head out of the sand and watch...it is called Competition and the Real Market, and it is tough out there...
For all of my criticism, I believe that the Big 3 are improving and doing the right thing...but whoever said it was right...had they done this 25 years ago instead of wishing that Honda/Toy would simply go away, they WOULD have a greater market share, and the japanese would not be on such an offensive...
No one can or will deny that it was the japanese competition with better quality that (literally) exposed the Big 3 for the junk it was making, simply by making a better product...if the Big 3 had judged the threat properly, instead of calling it a flash in the pan, it would be different today...
They have awakened, and it is not too late...they are now doing with labor in a few years what could have been done over 10 years with less shock, but, like the heroin addict going cold turkey, they will either survive or perish...
I believe they will survive, but the unneeded, featherbedded workers must be shed NOW, as they simply do NOT need that many to make the amount of product they are making...
The problem with GM was a sr. management team that did not put the needed priority on QUALITY, especially on the electrical side, including chassis wiring and accessories. Any GM car that I've had in the last 25 years was besieged with electrical failures. Consumer Reports verifies it. Some intermittent, others not. In any case these are the most expensive and most difficult problems to fix. Profits would have followed quality but unreliable cars lose resale value and that makes them more expensive.
Secondly the management team did not have the vision to design a vehicle that was forward thinking, leading edge and more advanced than the Japanese and Europeans. Now they have to worry about the Koreans and others.
Problem number one was a BOD that allowed the CEO to skate by without meeting any strategic results. They should have given him a 2 year contract with only minimal base compensation. If noticeable improvement in strategic measurement such as quality and customer ratings was not noted the CEO should have been kicked out with out bonuses of any kind.
I don't think I've ever seen that for docs.
All of which seems to have little to do with the UAW.
And welcome to the new posters; thanks for jumping in!
This is interesting! Please reference the post where Marsha7 said the Big 3 takes twice as many.
Thanks.
Kip
"
Yep, I'm down south of the Hartsfield (Atlanta) airport! Home of GM Doraville, Chevy Lakewood, and Ford Hapeville. All are out of business now. All were UAW! Were they moved to your area, with the "More", Lifestyle ? :confuse:
Are you saying the housing and auto are going out of business, because of the south ???
>" If you would get the same money that we would we would all have are jobs and are homes and the economy would not be go in the [non-permissible content removed]......"
Those that were employed by the above plants did get the UAW wages. Are you saying, they didn't need it because of the "less" life style here? Or are you saying that everyone should have been paid according to UAW standards?
>"I have 21 years in the car biz... selling them and now in the service dept....I went to the service dept. is because the sale dept was and is going under.... "
My oldest has been selling cars for about 14 years. I think he would agree with you. The service departments of the Big 3 are doing a lot more business than the sales floors. Does that suggest anything?
Does it seem a bit strange to you that the "Rice Burners" are building plants "South" of Detroit and thriving, as are their lower paid employees?
My car selling son lives in southern Indiana. Another of my sons is in construction in the Chicago area. Visits up there show me that living expenses are considerably higher than here. Much less house for the same money, higher utilities, ETC..
You didn't say it, but those that think us southerners are backward and not overly bright, might stop and take a look at how we actually do live and enjoy life. But please stop retiring down here and telling us how you did it up there! We don't care.
Nothing better than attending a NASCAR event at AIR while munching on deep fried rattlesnake and sipping home brew. Now that is lifestyle! :shades:
Kip
You have a point there. My Suburban has so many electrical gremlins that sometimes I think they may have left an employee in the dash just to mess with me (probably still on payroll, LOL).
I push the button for fog lights and the rear washer pump runs. When I put is in reverse sometimes the rear wiper moves one swipe. I've decided not to fix those items, but have spent money fixing a 4wd dash switch, and several electrical components behind the dash so I could have heat that doesn't stay on the hottest setting for the driver while letting cold air in freezing the passenger.
When I took it to the dealer, they knew exactly what was wrong w/o looking at it and all the parts were in stock. So I must not be alone regarding these issues.
Okay, I'll copy and paste it again:
Lat's make it even simpler...if you have 100 people making cars, and you lose 50 and can still make the same amount of cars, wouldn't ANY logical person, and even rocky, admit that the 50 extra workers were simply a drag on company profits because they were never needed???...
If you look at the paragraphs above that statement it makes several references to the UAW being overstaffed. The "Lat's make it even simpler" gives a clearer example of what the message is saying.
I agree that not all of the Ford buyouts will be replaced with new workers. Most of that is due to product demand, or lack of it. However, there is absolutely no way they will get the same product volume out the door with 50% of the workers and the Harbour report shows that the gap is very, very close.
I think we should offshore legal knowledge to India. No reason people in Bangalore can't deciper the intentionally nebulous legalese and provide service at 10% the cost.
I agree !!! I'm paying my attorney $200 dollars and hour in Texas, so I have a hard time having somebody who probably charges that much to their clients tell me what a UAW autoworker should make.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I guess the age of someone is the way you judge people's comprehension, intellegence, knowledge. Some of the absolute dumbest people I've ever met and/or know are much older than me. Just because I was young in the Pre-Clinton, years I did live in the Reagan, years where he flushed our economy down the toilet with deficit spending. He literally killed unions and employers got the upper hand on the working class and we've been climbing a up hill battle ever since. We also had a bunch of recessions during his tenure as president but I'm sure all of those were Carter's fault just like everything wrong today in the U.S. is still Clinton's fault. If you don't believe me listen to Rush, for an hour !!!.
The bottom line is you can poke fun of my youth and claim I'm dumb and not as smart as a "lawyer" and you of course "know better" because you went to "college forever". I love how you poke fun of my "experience" but it sounds like to me your experience is that of reading press clippings in the out-house by a slanted writer.
What's your experience outside of a court-room or a office ??? I'm writing this with a smile as it's so funny arguing with a lawyer, who is using "age" as a means to judge a person. If I was 15 you might have a leg to stand on. I will bite my tongue to not "offend" my elder on what I really think.
I'll leave it at that !!!! :shades:
-Rocky
rocky...is post 2424 directed at me, or someone else???...if me, I need to respond, if not, I can go back to sleep...
I am not referring to man Hours, per se...when you count the number of employees that were paid exorbitantly simply to sweep the floor, or those who went to the Jobs Bank (an oxymoron if there ever was one, getting a full week's pay to sit and drink coffee), I do not know if they are actually considered "production workers", so when I say that they can lose 50% of their employees and still make the same vehicles, I am stating that many of those who are employed are simply featherbedded jobs that were never necessary to begin with and were created out of the bloat of the profits of the past...
ManHours per vehicle sounds like you are using the actual number of people who are on the line making the cars...also, I would assume that ManHours would be reduced for every robot that does some job somewhere, like painting, welding, or dipping the chassis in anti-rust solution...
Well some believe a company should only exist to feed the "Fat Cats, until they suck that saucer dry and are not held accountable for any actions as each one of them have golden parachute strings to pull. Some also believe it is neccessary for the company to exist as a means for people to buy it's stock one day and dump it the next. There is no loyalty in the market but their is loyalty from employees of that company. I guess that does not matter. :sick:
-Rocky
Age, in and of itself, offers nothing except the passage of time...and, I, too, have met folks in the 60s,70s that still do not understand how turn signal lights work...
But you consistently comment on the Carter/Reagan years as though you actually lived them, when you were either unborn or in your child years...
You literally have no idea how this nation was embarassed by the hostage crisis in Iran, and how utterly useless carter was as a President...while Reagan was certainly not perfect, he restored pride back in this nation, rebuilt our military (which would NOT have run up such deficits if Carter had not run it down so quickly) and did get the economy going again simply by cutting tax rates FOR EVERYBODY, and that is where your youth and lack of experience shows in every post...
All tax brackets were lowered in 1981-1983 (+ or-), and then, in 1986, he created two tax brackets, 15% and 28%...please tell me how that only favored the rich...no, it favored anybody who made money, from lower middle class all the way to upper class...you have been listening to your union buddies who taught you that Reagan was against the common man...he WAS against unions bullying the country, so he fired PATCO, and rightfully so...but he cut the common man's taxes by cutting the rates, and that caused federal revenues to grow from 500 Billion in 1980-1981 to 900 Billion in 1988-1989...
The rwason I atribute your lack of comprehension of reality to your youth is simply because you DID NOT live it, you literally know NOTHING about it, and, attributing it to anything other than your youth would be personally insulting to you, and I will not stoop to that level...
You did not live thru 20% inflation, 10% unemployment (when there WERE NO Japanese cars taking UAW jobs) and the humiliation of this nation under Carter...so your comments about it are really quite hollow...all you know, or think you know, is rah-rah from your union buddies who simply hate Reagan because of PATCO...
I think it was Will Rogers who said, "It ain't what we don't know that is so bad, it is what we know that ain't so that is so bad"...
What you know simply ain't so, so when you rail on about some topics, you really have no idea what you are talking about...period...
LOL, yeah one would think a expert on labor, would of read a few more facts on the subject. I guess since he lived it those facts don't matter.
Have you ever heard of the Harbour Report?
Obviously he hasn't. I guess he like bumpy, believes it's a union bought and paid for organization. :confuse:
It is a measure of how many hours per vehicle (HPV) is required to build a product. Whether a worker is installing seats directly into the vehicle, doing a sub assembly job offline, or an inspector running tests in another part of the facility they all count toward the manpower hours needed to get the final product out the door.
Look up the latest figures and then come back and show me where ANY of the Big Three takes twice as many manhours to build a vehicle as it does ANY foreign car plant.
And if you want to talk about things before the Clinton era, I'm all ready. I'm old enough to belong to AARP and I've been a UAW member for over 24 years and counting.
LOL, it's funny how some people who have "lived it" well have a selective memory of what happened around them.
-Rocky
Tell us about this jobs bank deal. Workers actually get paid to sit around and pick their nose and watch 'The Price is Right?' Since they've loyally paid their union dues and there is no real work for them they have "earned" the UAW right to sit there and eat raspberry jelly donuts and drink fine 'Seattle's Best' coffee and watch the bucks roll in. Doesn't that sound a tad retarded to y'all?
Oh, silly me. It's only a "temporary" thing. Eldon will be back in his "real" UAW job as soon as Joe takes a vacation and opens up a spot. Does this even start sounding overly spendful to you? Yikes. Gotta build us some more oversized, over-priced GM vehicles that the loyalists will slather up with quite some favor. Talk about the royal automotive treatment. This is only some of the twisted, money-losing thinking that has made things overly tough on those called upon to "save" the domestic manufacturers.
It's funny how some who made the so-called big bucks and sucked it in at the time will fault those that are presently there all because they switched careers. :confuse:
-Rocky
Nice to meet you !!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
Yep !!!
-Rocky
My step-grandfather worked at Boeing for 35 years in Witchita, Kansas and during the slow times they ate a few extra Jelly Doughnuts and drinked a few extra cups of coffee. Get my drift bumpy ?
-Rocky
I also will say I was more in tune than your average child because I "experienced" a lot because of my grandparents
-Rocky
The difference is that Tiger Woods sells Buicks by endorsing them. Those in the jobs bank just raise the cost per vehicle. The jobs banks would have been less of a glaring problem if they were tied to getting re-trained. If you collect a pay check you are taking classes and getting a passing grade. This would have been a benefit to the employee. Enslaving them to a rubber room is not healthy for their minds. You cannot spin that entitlement into anything that is good. That was the dumbest thing the automakers allowed themselves to sign onto. Then comes health care for the life of the retiree.
As far as GM paying them not to work or the government. Unemployment compensation is paid by the corporations.
I think because you and some others are so close to the auto makers that foundations like the Harbour report mean something to you. I never heard of it until this thread was started. Each profession has publications that are specific to that field. They are of little interest to anyone else. And statistics put out by Harbour or CR or JD Powers are just data arranged to tell a story. I want to know what the total cost is per car. With all extraneous costs. Including the golden parachutes given to non productive management.
I thought the term was limited for the worker in jobs bank. I recall some articles about the jobs band in Kettering. Dayton is a suburb of Kettering along with Moraine where an IUE plant is located.
Didn't the jobs bank occur because the auto companies had agreed not to reduce employment below a certain level at certain plants for a certain number of years when they agreed to some contracts. So they couldn't reduce workers at a particular plant under those constraints. Hence those unneeded workers didn't show up at the work line but they showed up at the jobs bank location.
The article I recall described many as biding their time and a few feverishly making use of the resources, job hunts, college online classes, and I believe classes at the local (3) universities and junior college.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was in the 35% marginal federal income tax bracket while making less than today's minimum wage during Carter's last year in office.
I bought a house in the year after Carter left office and 30 yr. fixed mortgage rates were 17.5% on my closing day.
My rent was increasing 15% a year under Carter so I bought a house anyway.
Reagan's effect on me:
Iran was s*itting on our country and laughing about it hard in 1979, but they knew they had to free the hostages at about 9PM on election day in 1980 when the country dumped Carter.
Within 2 years I was in the 15% marginal tax bracket and I'm still in it.
Unions fought for and won important benefits for all workers.
My family survived on union wages growing up, but if a Carpenter's Union worker didn't pull their weight they were physically attacked because if the union hall didn't perform, they didn't get the next job or jobs and men and their families went hungry.
24 years later, when I got to work amongst the UAW, I told my dad that the fast workers (new hires at reduced pay) were screamed and yelled and cussed at by the ones with 25-30 years in, threatening them to slow down to maybe 60% production rate or there would be big trouble. This was done in front of the management. Quite a contrast in attitudes. Go getters -vs- thugs.
Today, all 31,000 GM jobs are gone from my county. Every last one. What company can afford to let a capable person put out 60% while demanding other co-workers do likewise, and while the Third world joins the global economy, willing to work for as little as 9 cents an hour, and is quickly becoming your competition?
The first offer from Boeing, that SPEEA members "fought off" and voted no on ended up being the better offer than the second Boeing offer that SPEEA "recommended" a yes vote on. The union thugs had everybody all so gung-ho to fight that they were blinded to the contracts details. We would have saved on health insurance and the pay part of it was just arranged differently, so that either offer would've worked out fine. But the benefits were worse on the second, agreed-to offer! I know for sure that they were, I studied the minutia in enlarged detail to make sure of this. They were blinded with union stupidity. Can I get a witness here? Marsha? Does this sound like you've heard this type of stuff before?
After the strike ended they were all tromping around "we showed 'em, yeah, rah-rah-rah!"
What a bunch of hyperactive dorks. Unions are a crock. No, Boeing can fall in to the Puget Sound and their managers can wrestle with some of the larger octopii down at the bottom for all I care. I've never worked at such a politically-charged, dopey, Seattle's Best and raspberry donut sparkled place in all my life. Trouble is, I spent nearly 20 years working towards retirement there and some stupid, short-sighted group of know-it-all suckups decides to outsource a whole group's work. Yeah, it's all about the money. Nobody is deemed permanently helpful to the money-grubbers and business suit dorks who "must know it all"...I mean, they're wearing these grey suits and wear their Boeing badges proudly.
I was a union worker who worked hard and worked towards saving the company money, too. I didn't need some stupid continuous quality improvement Deming program to point me towards that. I just did it on my own because I knew it was right. And how did I get rewarded? Pink slip and a little nip of Boeing's fortune to go re-train in a real career. The Pacific NW can have and suckle Boeing to their hearts content. The big war against evil empire Airbus Industrie. Enjoy it, dorks and know-it-alls. The SPEEA union mentality was a joke and still is and really is as ineffectual an entitiy as could suck money off of members.
rocklee...whoever can suck a good salary off of mad Boeing can have at it. That whole area is a soul-sucking angst-ridden cesspoool of grey, drizzly skies and dreary depression. I favor the hot and sunny Arizona desert and a chance to directly help people with their health. I feel like I can have some control over my career, not being ping-ponged around like at Boeing by know-nothings in grey suits who wouldn't know a smart, honest hard-working employee if it hit them over their thick skulls dead-on.
My second pink slip was a real blessing to me and the SPEEA union remains just one more dopey factor in the Boeing game that leaves one with an insecure, shaky future and less money in your pocket at the same time.
I am happy to be an Allied Healthcare, non-unionized employee in the land of Geronimo and General Crook and Fort Bowie.
Gentlemen-draw your swords!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
One of my best friends that I worked with for 37 years came to Alaska as an IBEW telephone installer. The first week on the job in our office he was told to slow down by the shop steward. He was terminating twice as many pairs of wires as the old timers. The IBEW in Alaska during the 1960s and 70s were known as feather bedders. One of our engineers on the installation caught wind of what was going on. He talked to my boss and we hired Bob to work directly for RCA as a Teamster. He is going to retire this year. At 63 he is still one of the fastest workers I have ever worked with. The IBEW lost several big contractors that went non-Union because of the old timers holding up jobs. So it does happen.
So the right to work laws have not hindered your making a living wage? I think more people with the, Union is the only way mentality, need to see that there are opportunities outside of Union jobs.
You got that right!
I as I was born and raised here in Georgia, I remember how proud we were that a peanut farmer from south Georgia had become president. Didn't take long for that pride to turn into something quite the opposite. What an embarrassment he was, and still is.
Before Carter was out of office the interest rates were ridiculous. Good news was that Bank Certificates of Deposit were paying 15%. Bad news was that Mortgages were 17%-19% and car loans were 19%-22%, for those with good credit. Not good for auto or housing. Unemployment was averaging around 10%. Not a healthy situation.
I well remember the PATCO situation, as I was maintaining equipment for FAA at Hampton Ga, and at the local PATCO on Phoenix Blvd. in College park. On the surface, PATCO was wanting better working conditions for the controllers. That is what the news media were told and what they were reporting. In conversations during lunch, it became very apparent that money was also an issue. In fact money was THE issue. More than once I heard, that "THEY" were underpaid when compared to the Pilots. "Sick-outs" were running rampart, and it was a very dangerous situation with Planes flying around and not enough control or guidance from the ground. When Reagan took office, he gave them a time frame to get back to work so that the skys could be safer while negotiations took place.
Some came back. Those that didn't were fired. He kept his word. He didn't bust the Union. They busted themselves. They were trying to hold the entire country, and the feds hostage, through the airline industry, and it backfired on them.
To add insult to injury, PATCO started trying to help their "Fallen" soldiers by finding them jobs. Why was it an insult? Because PATCO was charging for that service. In effect they became an employment agency with a captive audience of the very people they had persuaded to "Hang" in there and the Government will fold! :sick:
Yes, I felt for those guys. Some had become friends. They were living a good life one day and facing hard times the next. They Believed their Union Leaders!
A lot of them were re hired after a time frame. Of course we didn't hear much about that from the liberal Reagan hating press.
Kip
OK, Thanks.
Recon we were reading that from 2 different views. I thought he was saying that if the 50 remaining workers could produce the same number of cars without the 50 that were lost, it would indicate that the LOST 50 were not needed in the first place, and causing an unnecessary drain on the company.
Thanks,
Kip
As for Rush, he's probably called that because of all the drugs coursing through his system. The crackhead babbling underneath the elevated train probably makes as much sense as this so-called radio "personality."
He could have declared war on Iran and then shot them all for treason during war time.
That is indeed scary!
Having someone that can't make their own decisions, make one on my behalf ? :sick:
Recon they would have to ask their union rep first. Then the rep would have to ask the committee and a vote would have to be taken. Scary stuff!
Just not worth the hassle. I'll just do as I most always have, make my own decisions, do my own negotiations, and settle in to a nursing home of my choice. :shades:
Kip
Hope I didn't step on anybody's toes that loves and respects The Boeing Company. It's just an irritating situation to work hard and produce important jet aircraft work and then, because of increased sales form Airbus, higher jet fuel prices, less orders coming in, the grey suits have to put down their raspberry jelly donuts for a minute and make some short-sighted decisions.
I do remember reading SPEEA union periodicals where union members were complaining about the lack of loyalty from Boeing management for it's workers, that all Boeing management cared about was making a profit for it's shareholders.
All the while the company had about 1.3B in savings and yet they can't see it in them to let some good working folks stay and work and help produce jet aircraft and work towards a Boeing retirement? And just wait out the economic negatives for a while?
Look at them now, if I were out of my mind and wanted to go back now would be the time, orders are rolling in and everybody is eating strawberry pie and drinking fine Seattle's Best coffee to their hearts content. Humm...it took about a year for Boeing to fire Phil Condit and start "re-firing" bullets again. Imagine that.
Suddenly orders came in, everybody wanted a 787 "Dreamliner" and life was all cherries and roses again. Some delivery delays, but that was what kept us humming on the drawing production line.
gagrice, yes, I and my two fellow Respiratory Therapists are making good pay and getting reasonable benefits(we all would love better healthcare benefits, yes)in this right-to-work state of Arizona. The hospital subs it's RT care out to a nationwide RT contractor but there's been talk of the hospital buying out our contracts from them and hiring the 3 of us direct. It would be a welcome move, same pay and better healthcare benefits through the hospital. Hope it happens.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
OOPS, I forgot we did not have any military left. We sent our best to rescue the hostages. We ended up with broken down helicopters & dead soldiers out in the desert.
the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw, on April 24, 1980, which resulted in an aborted mission and the deaths of eight American military men.
PATCO should have taken the clue that Reagan was a man to be reckoned with when the Iranians let the hostages go the day he was inaugurated.
Many businesses use sub contractors for employees they do not want to make permanent. Gives them a chance to watch and pick out the good workers. The oil companies in Alaska did that a lot. They would hire Union (IBEW) technicians to fill in for a while. If they liked them they would offer them a permanent job. With MUCH better pay and benefits than the IBEW guys were getting. When I left the BP techs were all making over $130k per year. For 24 weeks work per year. That was almost $20k more per year than we were getting for the same work as Teamsters.
Nice to meet you !!!
-Rocky
Hi Rocky,
It's great to finally come out of the shadows, where I've been lurking for several months reading this forum while helping others save thousands of dollars on their new car purchase in other Carspace forums.
Someone on here recently said the days of good paying jobs without a college degree are over. They may want to read the article listed below for a second opinion. Here are some highlights:
The belief that you need a college education to have a well-paying and rewarding job is quickly fading. A four-year degree definitely has its benefits in the business world, but it’s not the only path to a successful career.
In fact, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), eight of the 10 fastest-growing occupations through 2014 don’t require a bachelor's degree.
So while a college degree was de rigueur for the baby boom generation, that's not necessarily the case now.
http://www.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=- 1226&pf=true
The automotive technician of today can make a handsome wage. In 2005 when I flew to Portland and bought a Passat TDI, the service manager was lamenting his head mechanic/technician had left to go to work at the Cadillac dealership. He got a substantial raise from the $140k per year he made there at the VW/Buick dealership.
As the article says most of the jobs listed would be nearly impossible to outsource to India or China.
No doubt you can be successful w/o a degree, you have to be motivated/hungry whether you have a degree or not.
The one thing that is misleading about that list is the statement a Bachelor's degree is not required. Sure, a bachelor degree may not be required, but no doubt you'll be competing with poeple who have a degree for many of those jobs.
The list didn't say no college require, but a Bachelor's degree not required. Meaning, education beyond HS is still relevant and important.
No to mention college/extensive training is required to be an air traffic controller as listed below:
There are several ways to become an air traffic controller. Many are trained while in the military and after their service is completed, the FAA can hire them. If not a part of the armed forces, civilians can attend one of the 14 colleges recognized by FAA that give degrees in aviation administration with an emphasis in air traffic control.
Minimum Requirements
30 years of age or younger
United States citizen
Become an employee of the Federal Aviation Administration
Pass a rigid medical examination including but not limited to vision, hearing, substance abuse/dependency along with a background check (Need More Info?)
Currently the FAA is hiring candidates who have graduated from one of the 14 schools* across the US:
Community College of Beaver County, Beaver Falls, Pa.
Daniel Webster College, Nashua, N.H.
Dowling College, Shirley, N.Y.
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Fla.
Hampton University, Hampton, Va.
Inter American University of Puerto Rico, Bayamon, Puerto Rico
Miami-Dade College, Miami, Fla.
Middle Tennessee State University, Murfreesboro, Tenn.
Minneapolis Community & Technical College, Eden Prairie, Minn.
Mt. San Antonio College, Walnut, Calif.
Purdue University, West Lafayette, Ind.
University of Alaska Anchorage, Anchorage, Ala.
University of North Dakota, Grand Forks, N.D.
Vaughn College, Flushing N.Y.
Hardly a situation where you'll get your H.S. diploma on Friday and be an air traffic controller on Monday
>" Sure, a bachelor degree may not be required, but no doubt you'll be competing with people who have a degree for many of those jobs."
tedebear,
Fact is that if a potential employer has 2 or more job candidates, and everything else is equal, the one with the "degree" is going to have a much better chance.
And yes there are lots of folks making really good pay checks that have never been to any form of higher education, such as college, trade schools and such.
A few ways of doing that are:
1. Do a better job than your peers, and be recognized by your employer.
2. Have a brilliant idea and enough self drive to see it through.
3. Being in the right place at the right time.
4. Marry the bosses daughter.
5. Blind luck!
6. Divine intervention.
Notice that your supplied "List" did not include assembly line workers? So many of those jobs are now being done by robots. More are done in other countries, as sub assemblies and not much skill is required to bolt 2 sub assemblies together.
When not much skill required and large list of applicants meet, job value/worth goes down. I'm speaking of "ANY" assembly line.
Fact is that American manufacturers no longer have a captive audience. Companies from around the world are competing for that audience and consequently those jobs. We don't have to like it....! We do have to deal with it. You find a way to reverse that and you will be a zillionare. (See #2 above)
Advice! Listen to those that went before you. Their advice comes from experience. That experience comes from both good and bad judgment. They know what use to work, and what works now. They have "seen" the changes take place.
Take a good look around! Your success will mostly depend on you! How much drive do you have, how much good advice you accepted, and how you handled that advice.
Check out Post 2445, above. You decide! :shades:
Kip
Quote: "24 years later, when I got to work amongst the UAW, I told my dad that the fast workers (new hires at reduced pay) were screamed and yelled and cussed at by the ones with 25-30 years in, threatening them to slow down to maybe 60% production rate or there would be big trouble"...
That is what featherbedding is, since more workers are needed to produce a given qualntity, since theise on the line are working at 60%...
That, rocky, is why the union movement is dying and continues to die a well-deserved death...the world is onto the crap from the union workers, and companies simply will not stand for it anymore...
You can rah-rah all you want, but if Michigan is where you think the job growth is, you may want to face reality and move...in 10 years, unions will only be found in the history books...
BTW, good luck selling Chevys...how is it going, since you have been there, oh, how long???...seems like about a year after all these posts... :P
Oh, if your grandparents were how you learned about the Reagan years, I assume they, too, only saw the union viewpoint, so when Ronnie fired Patco, as he should, there ain't a union person out there with the ability to understand why it was right, except that if a union was affected, then they always see it as "bad"...no matter how wrong they are...
So yeah I might rah-rah-rah-rah, but I have a damn good reason to as I have young kids that are going to have to live through the disaster the so called "Greatest Generation" has left for the future. :sick: I can see "why" this country is quickly headed for the 2nd/3rd world standard because we have people that think like they do. Buying non-union Chinese Made goods might allow you to buy more of what you want but at what cost ? What happens when your company out-sources your job ??? What happens iluv, when people can't afford to go to the hospital or afford to use your services ??? What if college graduate from India, replaces you in the health care industry and Marsha7, as a attorney. laugh now but that future isn't a unrealistic scenario. We are already seeing that happen as steve, posted a link. Next they will start their lives here and uncle sam will give them a tax break to start their practice because they are a minority.
-Rocky
Heck, we already have the discount competition, as folks try to sell legal forms on the Web, charging 20% of what I would charge to do the same thing...so I already experience what it is like to have someone undercut me, this is nothing new...the difference is, I accept it as part of the free market, and all you can do is preach for the union...
Whether it is an outsourced lawyer in India or discount forms on the Web, what is the difference???...I still have to deal with it, NOW...
Of course, there is one small advantage, and I do mean small...most of the forms on the Web are generic and not state specific, altho some of them may be...the ads always state that it pays to have a local lawyer review the doc to see if it is proper...so, I may make only half as much, but I spend zero time drafting it...it is not my job to determine if the doc is COMPLETE, only if it conforms with GA law...so, as long as it conforms, it is legal to file...if it leaves something out, that is their problem...they should have retained me from the start so liability would be mine...now they can just blame themselves...or the Indian lawyer 5000 miles away...
Your post above is incomplete...I still maintain that of people want industry in this country, simply stop buying "Made in China" shirts, TVs, pants, shoes, sneakers, tires, spark plugs, computers, cell phones, you name it...
rocky, the power rests in the hands of the people RIGHT NOW..,. the reason it may not work with automobiles is that, like it or not, the Big 3 ruined their reputation for quality with 2 decades of crap (and that is something your grandparents cannot comprehend and could NEVER teach to you, meaning the Carter and Reagan years, before and after), and the imports have built a rep on the quality that America lost...
But, as long as a shirt fits, a cell phone works, shoes are comfortable, the Americans stand as good a chance as anybody because the investment is so little compared to the price of a car...
So, get all your union buddies, in and out of Michigan, and tell them to boycott WalMart, Sports Authority, Sears, etc, until they stop buying Chinese products and only stock the (more expensive) products made with American labor...as soon as you say "Boycott Walmart" the howls of laughter will rise like the smoke from a volcano, because they will not do it, not for one minute...
What do you think of my idea???...is it not infallible???isn't it guaranteed to work???...if the aisles of Walmart and Sears and Sports Authority and Circuit City are empty because we won't buy Chinese products, will that not change the American employment landscape within 90 days???...
One last thought...it ain't no journalist that has given me my opinion of unions...we dealt with them in NY and I dealt with their members in Detroit...NO journalist could EVER have written anything so damning of the unions as what 10 years of dealing with them, their attitude, and their poorer quality products, will do to one's mind...it is a pleasure to watch them wither on the vine...
What say you??? (legal lingo, there)...
Shoot, if all the merchandise sold at Sears, Sports Authority, Circuit City and others was made here, virtually NO AMERICANS who wanted to work would be out of a job. There would be a lot less social ills like poverty, crime, drug abuse, alcoholism, child abuse, etc. as well. Come to Philadelphia which was once called "The Workshop of the World!" Postindustrial Philly is now refered to as "Killadelphia." I'm sure there would be a lot less thugs shooting people if they had viable jobs like there once were at Disston Saw, Dodge Steel, Botany 500, Stetson Hat, Baldwin Locomotive, The Budd Company, Philco, Merck, General Electric, Breyer's Ice Cream, Whitman Chocolate, etc.
We got 15,000 new Saudi college students in 2006. The Saudi government has requested visas for 21,000 more college students to be enrolled in our colleges this year. Can your children compete against Saudi riches just to pay tuition? Rocky, the demise of the UAW is miniscule in the BIG picture. We have illegal and legal students clamoring to get into our universities. Next it will be a huge influx of students from China and India and who knows where. The billions we waste on entitlement programs could be used as scholarships to our brightest students. We would rather spend $250 billion rebuilding that hell hole in New Orleans.
Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester.
The program will quintuple the number of Saudi students and scholars here by the academic year's end. And big, public universities from Florida to the Kansas plains are in a fierce competition for their tuition dollars.
The kingdom's royal family — which is paying full scholarships for most of the 15,000 students — says the program will help stem unrest at home by schooling the country's brightest in the American tradition. The U.S. State Department sees the exchange as a way to build ties with future Saudi leaders and young scholars at a time of unsteady relations with the Muslim world.
Administrators at Kansas State University, an agricultural school surrounded by miles of prairie grass, say the scholarships are a bonanza for public education.
"The Saudi scholarship program has definitely heightened our interest in that part of the world," said Kenneth Holland, associate provost for international programs. "Not only are the students fully funded, but they're also paying out-of-state tuition."
I just had a bowl of Breyer's ice cream. Was it made in China? I do believe our attorney friend was advocating the boycotting of Chinese made goods. I know my wife does it religiously. I know I got chewed out for buying a bag of fresh garlic that was a product of China.
According to Breyer's website, the only facility outside of the US is in Ontario.
We have manufacturing plants in the following locations:
Clearwater, FL
Framingham, MA
Hagerstown, MD
Henderson, NV
Huntington, IN
Sikeston, MO
St. Albans, VT
Waterbury, VT
Simcoe, Ontario
Our Corporate Office is located in Green Bay, WI.
Who knows where all of the incrediant's come from, but I don't think you have to worry about giving up your favorite treat anytime soon.
Framingham, MA
Hagerstown, MD
Henderson, NV
Huntington, IN
Sikeston, MO
St. Albans, VT
Waterbury, VT
Simcoe, Ontario
Our Corporate Office is located in Green Bay, WI.
Only one of those is in the South. Haven't they recognized the expertise and cheap labor available there. What's the real reason they haven't built a plant in Missippi, Louisiana, Alabama?... I don't even consider FL the South. While visiting my sister in Boca it was more like the North translated hundreds of miles, and like Cuba creeping north.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now if Rocky and his friends in MI will only buy things made in USA we can get this ball rolling.
Maybe it's because up in Green Bay they only have to run the freezers for about 3 mos. a year. LOL