United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    ahem. there's a perfectly good off-topic discussion for conversation about the upcoming election and the candidates. Thanks!

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I just asked why she did not mention her once union husband! :) I would think that would have made some of those UAW, who seem to be democrats, take another look.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    With the police it is a performance thing. Most officers I've talked with still prefer the FULL FRAMED ford, but like the "POWER" of the Charger. Wonder why Ford refuses to upgrade the Power of the Police units

    Actually, most of the Charger police cars I've seen just have 3.5 V-6es. I'm sure the Hemi might find its way into a few units though. I forget what engine the Impala police interceptor uses these days, but it used to be the 3.9. As I recall, they're all fairly closely matched in performance.

    Many cops around here couldn't drive their way out of a paper bag to begin with, so the last thing they need is MORE power. Besides, as the old saying goes, the bad guys might be able to outrun a copcar, but they can't outrun the radio.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Never been there. I hear it's nice but the winters are brutal. Does Ford still have a plant in or near Chicago?

    Chicago is a great city. Yes the winters can be brutal, but really nice to visit in the non-winter months. Ford has an assembly plant there which builds the Taurus/Taurus X.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    She just referred that her husband was a proud union member a issue that Mitt Romney, was slamming in his speeches. Romney's true colors came out last night and he really showed he would do absolutely nothing for UAW members. Sarah Palin, isn't some multi-millionaire elite and seems very grounded and down to earth. Hopefully McCain, won't corrupt her way of thinking :surprise:

    Gagrice, hears you article pal !!!

    Screw That Bulb: How GE Is Plugging Into the Green Movement to Move Jobs and Advanced Technology to China

    http://www.screwthatbulb.org/

    Boeing pact extended despite strike vote

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080904/boeing_machinists.html

    $14 per hour: The new auto dream job Old article but interesting !!!

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Dato=20080226&Kategori=AUTO01&Lope- nr=802260359&Ref=AR

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wasn't she touring with "Alvin and the Chipmunks" back in the 1980s?

    image
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    dallasdude: Clinton raised taxes and still generated more revenue. Numbers don't lie.

    The economic recovery was well under way by the time he was elected to office. Those numbers don't lie. The deficit was being reduced by trends that started before January 20, 1993.

    dallasdude: Economics are best left to those who know.

    As I recall, you were the person who said, in an earlier post, that government could be in the black while running a deficit. That doesn't show much knowledge of economics to me...

    dallasdude: That same conservative congress that you give credit to, is responsible for the Bushit deficit.

    I was talking about Congress in the 1990s. It pushed for less spending. As I said in my previous post, in those days, Republicans remembered why they were Republicans. I have specifically criticized the Republicans since 2000, and please note that since 2006, we've had a Democratic Congress, and deficits are just as bad, and they haven't ended the war, like Rep. Pelosi said that they would.

    dallasdude: Universal health care wasn't tried, so hence, you don't know if it would lowered the cost of health care.

    It has been tried in Europe, and it has lowered the cost of health care by restricting access to more complicated procedures. Proof? Here's an example - compare survival rates of patients in the U.S. to those for patients in Great Britain after diagnosis of a serious disease. The survival rate for EVERY disease or conditon except diabetes (which may reflect the greater incidence of obesity in the U.S.) is superior in the U.S. compared to Great Britain, which has nationalized health care.

    Also note that most countries with socialized medicine have capped reimbursement rates for doctors and other health-care providers. My cousin in Germany is a urologist, and he prefers to see patients with private insurance, as the reimbursement rate is much better than it is through the government plans.

    dallasdude: But it is also fact, that Medicare/Medicaid are using 7% to administer and HMO/PPO/POS and the like are costing 14% to administer. Instant savings, not to mention other cost cutting measures.

    And I'm sure the fact that they serve more a much more limited patient base, whose patients are more uniform in age and health characteristics (Medicare is only for the elderly, for example), has nothing to do with it. ;)

    Or that those programs severely cap the reimbursement rates for physicians and hospitals.

    dallasdude: I didn't elected in a representative who lacks moral turpitude and should be ashame. This is a prime example of where capital punishment should be used. Other wise this will go on forever, since there is no deterrent. This type of behavior encourages and breeds more morally corrupt behavior.

    I agree - for example, bailing out GM and the UAW after decades of stupid management rewards failure and is a waste of taxpayer money. Given your post, I'm sure that you would NEVER support any politician who pushes for that bailout!

    dallasdude: Then too the state is oil rich and the residents are far better off than say Michigan. Other than, Eskimo pies, what else do they produce? Michigan makes the Cadillac CTS.

    Given the fact that the demand for eskimo pies appears to be stronger than it is for most GM cars - last time I checked, eskimo pie makers aren't bribing people to buy their product, and Senator Obama isn't running around suggesting that we give a federal bailout to eskimo pie producers - I'd suggest you not cast aspersions on the good people who make them. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are more than welcome in the Presidential forum.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f185b68/1470
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Then too the state is oil rich and the residents are far better off than say Michigan. Other than, Eskimo pies, what else do they produce?

    Your lack of education is showing. Iowa is the home of the Eskimo Pie.

    Danish immigrant Christian Kent Nelson, a schoolteacher and candy store owner, claimed to have received the inspiration for the Eskimo Pie in 1920 (in Onawa, Iowa, USA) when a boy in his store was unable to decide whether to spend his money on ice cream or a chocolate bar. After experimenting with different ways to adhere melted chocolate to bricks of ice cream, Nelson began selling his invention under the name "I-Scream Bars." In 1921, he filed for a patent, and secured an agreement with local chocolate producer Russell C. Stover to mass-produce them under the new trademarked name "Eskimo Pie"

    You should do some research on Unions in Alaska. Most of the workers that built the Alaska Pipeline were UNION members. Our Teamster secretary treasurer, since passed away, negotiated a 50% Union hire agreement with Exxon and BP back in the 1970s that was in affect until 1990. That assured Union people would be able to get vested in the various Union retirement programs. The agreements were not so restrictive as to destroy the companies they were signed on with. It was good for the companies and the Union workers. The UAW could have learned from them about policing their ranks and weeding out the bad apples that have played a part in the downfall of the Big 3.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    :):):)...it appears to me that rocky would vote for Satan himself if he found out he was a former UAW member...:):):):):)

    rock: enjoy your union kick while it lasts...think of it like enjoying the ice on a 100 degree day while the heat melts the ice in your glass... :P ;)

    Any luck with a security job yet???...
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    dallasdude: But it is also fact, that Medicare/Medicaid are using 7% to administer and HMO/PPO/POS and the like are costing 14% to administer. Instant savings, not to mention other cost cutting measures.

    So tell us all then, dallasdude, why the UAW has never advocated shifting all retired UAW members over to Medicare from the current plan, given that retiree medical care is a HUGE expense for all of the automobile companies? If the coverage is equal, and the UAW wants to help ensure the survival of the domestics, wouldn't this make sense?

    But...could it be that the coverage under Medicare isn't nearly as generous as coverage provided by the current plan provided by the auto companies?

    Maybe that's why costs for Medicare are lower...? ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ...it appears to me that rocky would vote for Satan himself if he found out he was a former UAW member...

    I love labor unions more than most folks I admit.....however Satan, would never have been a union member, and more likely a CEO, like Neutron Jack Welch or Roger Smith, because they liked to watch people suffer while they benefited financially. ;)

    rock: enjoy your union kick while it lasts...think of it like enjoying the ice on a 100 degree day while the heat melts the ice in your glass...

    Your on a roll today, eh ??? :P ...... I think McCain's RNC convention was a bunch of slamming and playing the fear card like in 2004. :( I saw no evidence beyond more of the same trickle-down economic plans from McCain. 4 days later I have nary a clue how he's going to improve the economy for working class people like UAW members. :cry:

    Any luck with a security job yet???...

    Left them another voicemail, again and they still haven't called me back. My best guess is their contracts were cancled because Gustav, wasn't the super hurricane we were expecting and it didn't hit New Orleans, directly !!!! I'm suppose to be receiving a call from a temp service tomorrow and I'm going to apply for a TSA, job tonight because I heard they are hirring from a friend.

    "The Rock"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Your lack of education is showing. Iowa is the home of the Eskimo Pie.

    Do they hire Illegal Eskimos to work there?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    That stimulus package sure stimulated things, eh?

    Bernanke, what a typical neocon crony genius :sick: ...if there is ever a Big 2.5 bailout and these guys are involved, it will be a failure.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do they hire Illegal Eskimos to work there?

    No such thing. Eskimos are the ORIGINAL North Americans. I know that because they will tell you they were in Alaska at the beginning of time. I think they only use illegals to make Kosher Eskimo Pies :shades:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Kosher Eskimo Pies? Now THERE'S a concept!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I agree it has to be grossly underrated lemko !!!!

    I spoke with the temp service and it's pretty sad when they have no work to offer you !!!! :surprise: I will have to try a different one on monday, I guess. :(

    -Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I agree it has to be grossly underrated lemko !!!!


    Well according to the bureau of labor statistics, Michigan had the highest unemployment rate in the country at 8.5% as of last month.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Yes, but generally, these numbers are based on those on unemployment insurance. If you run out of benefits, you are no longer considered "unemployed" for the statistics, even though you still have no job. Conversely, if you get a job under the table, you are still considered "unemployed" if you are collecting.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I fail to see how union organizing will fuel ANY growth at all...

    Imagine with me that all of the WalMart employees unionized tomorrow, and received $15/hour to sweep the floor and stock the shelves...I would bet prices would increase overnight, as overhead has gone up, yes, people would make more, but I would bet their employee roster would be cut in half so as to try and keep prices down...after all, if Walmart prices are no different than any other place, sales will certainly go down...

    So, the $9 shirts are now $14-17, lower income folks will buy fewer items from walmart, and nobody benefits except the few employees they keep...the ones they fire will be total losers, as they may have lost the only job they can qualify...

    Never forget that an economy, whether macro or micro, is not static...you cannot change one thing without altering many others...to say you just want more pay for the employees, it does not happen in a vacuum...something else must give, and it will probably be prices...
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I fail to see how union organizing will fuel ANY growth at all...

    I don't think so either, just more BS being spewed by the UAW. If organizing means growth, why has the UAW been shedding jobs for decades. Sounds to me the UAW is looking for another industry to suck dry.

    If a retail store like walmart had to increase wages by 50%, their choices would be to raise prices and/or employ less people. Then again, retail has always been low pay at clerk level regardless of union or non union. Retail stores just aren't going to pay a kid, or anyone, $15/hr to push carts or push a broom no matter what union gets in there.

    I don't have the numbers handy, but it seems to me that job losses have increased since the minimum wage went into effect in July.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    "I don't have the numbers handy, but it seems to me that job losses have increased since the minimum wage went into effect in July."

    But I doubt one could find a casual effect there.

    More people are in arrears or are in foreclosure than in July as well - minimum wage isn't a part of that either.

    Unemployment stats are a strange mirage, they don't report reality. Underemployment is also a disease in this ever more globalized world that nobody seems willing to touch. Maybe people should just get used to less, the one worlders want it that way, and it looks like they will get it...for awhile.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    When Wisconsin got rid of their union clerks, prices didn't exactly come tumbling down. So therefore we can't make such a statement (UAW jobs would only increase prices and be counter productive) and fail to back it with empirical evidence. One could argue that with the extra wages the clerks would purchase more and or their purchasing power would increase. This would have a multiplier effect and hence perpetuate a true economic stimulus. Certainly those clerks would be more able to afford the over supply of homes and autos which plague the economy at present. If you bought into the trickle down economics, you certainly would give the working folks/UAW a chance. Being it that unemployment is up, housing prices are dropping, auto sales are down, and things seem less than optimistic, its worth a try.

    By the way have any of you seen the that video/story?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-hits-karl-rov_n_123852.html- - -
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    As I recall, you were the person who said, in an earlier post, that government could be in the black while running a deficit. That doesn't show much knowledge of economics to me...

    Get it right please.

    I said that govt spending wasn't a bad thing all of the time. As long as it doesn't crowd out private investment. Only when govt is borrowing so much in that private investment is more costly and or put off all together is it bad. No one would argue that govt spending wasn't a good thing during the great depression, however, at the time conservatives were upset. The robber barons survived and have seen things FDR's way since. The thing about it is they like govt spending as long as it benefits their pockets. No one would argue that Cheney wasn't happy to see all the rebuilding going on in Iraq.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    My friend the Teamsters sold out the new hires long ago. One has to work part time at UPS for FIVE years before they get full time employment. That is outrages and a complete sell-out of the new employees/hires. Pathetic, I got mine and now you get yours. Who can live at those low wages for FIVE years?

    Then United Transport is the Teamsters delivering all those new UAW autos to the dealerships. All unions depend on each other. There is no one as blind as he/she who will not turn on the light and or open their eyes.

    Enough cyber cadet, get a GED and then come on line. I refuse to engage in a verbal joust with an unarmed man!!!
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    So tell us all then, dallasdude, why the UAW has never advocated shifting all retired UAW members over to Medicare from the current plan, given that retiree medical care is a HUGE expense for all of the automobile companies? If the coverage is equal, and the UAW wants to help ensure the survival of the domestics, wouldn't this make sense?

    There is a thing called early retirement. Medicare doesn't kick in until 65. Medicare doesn't pay for everything either. There is a thing called medigap. The employer pays until you reach 65 and there after pays for the medigap. I'm just explaining the cost to administer, not benefits paid. There are actuarial charts/data that adjusts premiums to cost and assures a profit. Remember these insurance companies at one time owned Montgomery Wards, EXXON, and many more. They are poor investors on top of a gold mine. In the studies of economics banks and insurance companies are prefect in that they are impossible to belly up. Oops I stand corrected BEAR STEARNS.

    I would assume that Medicare would have higher costs as to benefits paid out.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well the fact is those unemployment numbers don't include people that have ran out of unemployment benefits that are still technically unemployed. :(

    Yes Michigan, does lead the U.S. in unemployment and would guess that 8.5% is well above 10%...... :cry:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You took the words out of my mouth pal !!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I fail to see how union organizing will fuel ANY growth at all...

    Imagine with me that all of the WalMart employees unionized tomorrow, and received $15/hour to sweep the floor and stock the shelves...I would bet prices would increase overnight, as overhead has gone up, yes, people would make more, but I would bet their employee roster would be cut in half so as to try and keep prices down...after all, if Walmart prices are no different than any other place, sales will certainly go down...


    I guess the major issue that I, dallasdude, lemko, have had the hardest time getting across toy you is that Walmart, would not have to raise it's prices and would have to face not making as many billions a year as they are accustomed too. I know that goes against your Mises, theory on capitalism that the worker bees are suppose to make slave wages because an illegal alien will work for that like they have done to our beef packing plants in this country that once paid decent wages and benefits. :mad:

    So, the $9 shirts are now $14-17, lower income folks will buy fewer items from walmart, and nobody benefits except the few employees they keep...the ones they fire will be total losers, as they may have lost the only job they can qualify...

    I'd rather pay more for that shirt and have qualified people that can speak my language give me customer service. Remember that Wal-Mart, worker now instead of making mininum wage will have more disposable income to perhaps buy a cheap automobile and won't be sucking your tax dollars dry when going to the hospital. ;)
    Those $9.00 shirts at Wal-Mart, are made for under a buck in Bangladesh.

    Never forget that an economy, whether macro or micro, is not static...you cannot change one thing without altering many others...to say you just want more pay for the employees, it does not happen in a vacuum...something else must give, and it will probably be prices...

    You are correct as likely the prices would go up at Walley World, because the greedy Walton, kids would be damned to take less profit and have to compete with the smaller locally owned stores they ran out of business. Thiswill be exactly what the Chinese automobile manufactors goal will be. Undercut The Big 3, Japanese, European, automobile manufactors with non-union, child and slave labor in China.

    Marsha7, for every positive you see with the free market i.e. (imports from China) somebody here in the U.S. will pay in some way, shape, or form. ;)
    I guess I should explain myself before posting this ??? What I mean is a U.S. company will either close, ship it's jobs to china, and the tax base that localshop provided is gone as well thus the chain reaction/domino affect well happens.
    I just can't support that type of economics and never will !!!! :sick:

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Free Choice Act

    I could go along with the stronger laws protecting workers that advocate going Union. I cannot see where getting rid of the secret ballot is a good thing. I don't like being intimidated by management or the Union members.

    This law will not make any changes in Right to Work states. It will only make them a better place to set up factories. I think the law is flawed.

    But under the proposed law, parties must begin bargaining within 10 days of card check certification. Then, if a settlement hasn’t been reached after 90 days, the union can request federal mediation. The sides then have another 30 days to negotiate a voluntary agreement. Failing that, a third-party arbitrator would impose a binding contract.

    Would you want some unknown 3rd party arbitrator deciding your contract? I would not.

    This law will push more business out of the USA than you can imagine. Look across the border into Tijuana. There are 100s of new factories from every major manufacturer in the World. There are as many as 30 million illegals that would gladly go home and work if given half a chance. There are 100s of 1000s of acres of cheap land to build on. There are hardly any environmental roadblocks. What will stop the migration of business?

    Take a real hard look at Michigan. It was a state with lots of Union workers. It now has the highest unemployment in the Nation. Pass that law and Unemployment will spread faster than a prairie fire.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I strongly agree with your post pal !!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Exactly !!! If the money actually trickled down into workers pockets from their employers we might be able to take this economy off life support. ;)

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My friend the Teamsters sold out the new hires long ago. One has to work part time at UPS for FIVE years before they get full time employment. That is outrages and a complete sell-out of the new employees/hires. Pathetic, I got mine and now you get yours. Who can live at those low wages for FIVE years?

    I will agree that part time is a sleazy way to get out of paying benefits. Some people want part time. Instead of trying to make people go Union with a repressive law Congress could make companies over a certain size provide benefits for part timers. Not sure that would help.

    When I went to work at Pacific Telephone in 1961 the progression was 6 years to top pay in each classification. You change to a new position it was 6 more years. That was a Union CWA job.

    Maybe people should learn to live on less. Having a home, family, TV in every room with 2 cars in the driveway is not in our Constitution.

    People losing homes is sad. We have two now in our family. Look close at the circumstances they bought into an ARM or borrowed way more than is smart. My wife's Brother sat across our dining room table and we begged them to not get into that big house. They did and now they are using our vacant home until they can afford another place. They lost $500,000 of equity in their old home that was paid for. You can blame Congress for pressuring lenders to be less critical of peoples ability to pay back their loans. It created the housing bubble. You can only borrow so long before the bills start coming in.

    There is no magic bullet that will save jobs in this country. There are so many forces at work destroying our manufacturing base. Unions are not helping to save jobs.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Perhaps you are right. The only way this law will be solid is if we have huge tariffs on all imports and the freedom of choice becomes a federal law which over rides any right to work laws on the books. That is the push that needs to be made but I still believe the law as it stands is better than none at all. :sick:

    -Rocky
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    gagrice wrote :
    " Save your money the next 10 years is going to be tough. "
    Amen senor Amen, Per the WSJ and NYT in the last hour, The Feds are nationalizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That's 5.73 trillion of mortgages going into conservatorship and being added to the national debt. Holy meltdown batman. Preferred and bonds are A-ok, common is diluted but not destroyed but faces a tough row to hoe. Not sure of the reaction of the market when they hear it, either omg they've finally done it or we're in deep doo doo . A mistake I'm thinking as 90% of the two gse's mortgages are pre-2005. But what's done is done. Uaw, balk at a detail in a contract at your own peril. As Tom Wolfe said in his book, The Right Stuff, subsequently made into a movie. When an astronaut would make a major faux pas, the expression would go among fellow astronauts,They have " screwed the pooch " Verily if it is not so.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    There is no magic bullet that will save jobs in this country. There are so many forces at work destroying our manufacturing base. Unions are not helping to save jobs.

    I agree with some of your post but what good would it be for this country to have a bunch of $10 dollar an hour manufactoring jobs. Those folks aren't going to buy squat and contribute to the U.S. economic life-cycle because they still won't have the disposable income needed to purchase goods and services like you and my father were able too. :(

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I just can't support that type of economics and never will

    You have no choice. And it will get worse. When my daughter and SIL were offered a job in Indiana paying what he was making here with a slight raise. I said go for it. They are finally saving money. There rent is half of what it was here in San Diego. He only drives 5 miles to work. Here school bus is $500 per year for my grandson. It is free in Indiana. You need to go where the best wage to cost of living ratio is. It is not static. It is always changing. Michigan had a good run. Now it is Dead. I see no possible way for it to EVER regain the glory of the past.

    There are people so far above President Bush or Clinton that could care less about your woes. They think globally. though I think Clinton has secured himself a spot in that world. He is flying rather high these days. His non profit is sitting on half a billion dollars. He is knocking down close to $20 million per year. And all he has to do is jet set around cruising chicks with one of his billionaire buddies.

    I did not get to see McCain's speech. Someone talked about his experience in Vietnam. He went from a selfish hotshot jet pilot to an insignificant piece of crap in a little cell. Rocky the sooner you learn that in this world you and I are insignificant, the easier it will be for you to really be someone.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    a bunch of $10 dollar an hour manufactoring jobs.

    You need to forget working in manufacturing. I hire a fellow that lives in Tijuana to help me around our place. I pay him $12 per hour. His wife works 3 days a week in a Sony factory for $20 per day. The reason is she gets health care for the family. He has 3 girls. I was paying some of the boys in the church to help because they were great workers. They are now working full time construction at 18 years old making $20 per hour. Why would Sony build a factory in the USA? They get people to work just across the border for $20 per day. I gave him extra money the other day. His mom is in a coma after a stroke. It is costing he and his brother $300 per week to take care of her. Do you have any idea what that care would be just 5 miles across the border?

    Like it or not Rocky we are being consumed by a global market. We cannot compete with our cost of living. Our standard of living will go down to meet the rest of the world as it comes up.
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    Rocky, I agree with your statement. It would do no good at all to have $10.00 /hr jobs. But please recognize what my above post portends.
    The two largest Government sponsored enterprizes in the country have been declared insolvent. The debt the country is absorbing is just under 6 trillion dollars. The sins of Wamu, Countrywide, , Citi and any California bank that has Glen in it's name and 12 others that don't have come to roost. The Uaw current posture should be close to Bob Cratchett in A Christmas Carol. Forget Gm's & Fords billions of debt, Chrysler a foregone conclusion. They are dust in the wind. the good old days are just that. ' tis an ill wind that bodes no good.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Phoenix

    Out of my ashes
    will rise a new phoenix.

    A soaring being
    returning from death
    proving once again
    that life is eternal.

    I live forever
    because the spirit
    never dies.

    I will return
    in another body
    in another time,
    but it is me.

    The me who is me now
    will always be.

    As long as I live,
    I learn.
    And I live
    F o r e v e r
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So what do you suggest ??? I at almost age 30 try to find a skill that I may or may not like and pack up and move every couple of years because the business closes ??? What kind of life is that ??? Say good-bye to friends, family, every couple years, forget about ever getting remarried or having a stable place ??? I hate this global economy and big business has ruined our way of american life all because of greed. Don't let thoseconservatives fool you because we are weaker today than we were yesterday because we have invested so much damn money in enemies that want to kill us. Am I the only american left that is truly is patriotic and is angry that his government is allowing corporate america to feed the enemy by allowing the interests of corporations to override the good of the country and its citizens ??? If any kid today goes gets a college education his job and wage isn't safe !!! It seems every few years people get laid-off or replaced by some immigrant, or graduate because somebody is willing to do it cheaper. Not everybody your age is wealthy and can hop on a airplane and go see there children and grandchildren. What happen to our family values the republicans always talk about ??? It's B.S. and you know it !!! You can't have family values when people are working 60-70 hours a week in a factory, office, restuarant, store, etc, just to make ends meet. If we tariffed the hell out of all imports all those Delphi, GM, Ford, Chrysler, plants would have no choice but to return !!! Any car made outside the U.S. should have at least a 100% tariff imposed on it. If you don't want to pay such a tariff then you better build the car and all 100% of its part here in the U.S. with american labor :mad: Any car part, TV, boom box, shirt, refridgerator, washer, dryer, jeans, food, firearm, medicine, shoes, etc, made or grown outside of the U.S. should be tariffed, plain and simple !!!! :mad: The free market should only exist inside the U.S.

    I love my state of Michigan, I honestly don't want to leave but I might someday have too. I've been looking out of state for good paying jobs and I shouldn't have too. This is Michigan, a place where good paying jobs use to be almost everywhere. I'm very flexible on my occupation. I will do armed security, corrections, manufactoring, sales, customer service rep, it's not like I'm being a picky [non-permissible content removed] !!!! I'm angry that for 8 years we have done nothing to make life better in this country and as many flaws as Barack Obama, might have I still feel he's my best chance to not get everything I want done but at least something to go my way.

    Ya'll better be glad I wasn't president because the oil in this country would be controlled by the federal government like in Norway, for the benefit of the citizens. Healthcare, would be government run and Wal-Mart, would be in a Anti-Trust violation and broken up. Microsoft, would be broken up as well. All our military, would come home and any rebuilding like done in Iraq, would be done with the U.N. and all expenses would be shared by other nations so us tax payers wouldn't be absorbing all the costs. The money saved by taking troops out of Iraq, would be reinvested into military "black" projects, alternative energy, and rebuilding our infrastructure and grid system. The chinese, would be forbidden to own any highways. Any front company that's owned by a foreign country would be taken over and all assets ceized !!! Our border would have land mines, along with other barriers. The troops coming home from Iraq, would be given the best mental and physical medical care in the world and would be given preference on border security jobs. I would build dozens of nuclear power plants with reprocessing centers. Unions would have freedom of choice law passed and it would be illegal to cross a picket line and the union members would have the right to protect that picket line even if that meant using force. The 2nd amendment would be protected and firearms safety would be a requirment to graduate high school. All graduates would have to serve 2 years in the military, or do public service and their college would be free.....

    So what ya say "rockylee" for president in 2020' :blush: :shades:
    I know my conservative socialism, scares the heck out of many of ya'll !!! :P

    "The Rock"
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    You are absolutely right, Rocky.....I am glad you are NOT PRESIDENT!!!!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Amen! Everything is in balance at all times. You just can't see it in the minute.

    Regards,
    OW
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't let thoseconservatives fool you because we are weaker today than we were yesterday because we have invested so much damn money in enemies that want to kill us.

    You need to clear your mind of all that you were told by the Pro Union family and friends about Republicans and Democrats. In this business world we are in, they are the SAME. Take Rupert Murdoch owner of Fox News. He is close friends with Bill and Hillary. Look back to a much worse time than now. You and I are too young to remember the depression. It was a 100 times worse than now. Who was one of the people making money during the depression hand over fist. Joe Kennedy. The millions he made off of foreclosing on homes, farms and businesses during the depression he put into off shore accounts. These shady earnings have supported a huge family for the last 75 years. The Kennedy, Rockefeller, Mellon and the Walton family's fortunes are not going to be tapped by any party in power. They control those in power. What you are missing is this. When Bill Clinton left office in 2001 he was in debt over his philandering battle. Today the Clinton's have a net worth of $122 million as reported by Hillary for the Presidential run. Do you think they earned $122,000,000 in the last 7 years? No they played the Global market game and were rewarded. The sooner you realize that politicians are doing what they do for POWER first and money is just a given.

    Once you come to the realization that politicians are lying to you we can move onto the Union leaders. Ron Dinglefinger is as big of a liar as any of the others. He knows the UAW days are numbered. The UAW cannot compete without cutting paychecks. That is a tough sell for any Union leader to do. I watched almost every Union contract being cut in 1985-86 in the Alaska Oil Fields. Then in 1990 almost every Union went away. We were still vital providing communications and survived. The work is still being done. Mostly by non-Union workers. The only time large groups of Union people would come up was to expand a pipeline. The Welders and Pipefitters did not have any real non union competition.

    Ya'll better be glad I wasn't president because the oil in this country would be controlled by the federal government like in Norway, for the benefit of the citizens.

    How is Norway any different than say Alaska? The people of Alaska get oil money from the state just for being there. One big difference, there is no Fat A** King stealing all the oil money for his own treasury. Gas is not $10 per gallon as in Norway. And anyone is welcome to come to Alaska and share in the wealth. Just go get a job and be part of the oil boom.

    By the way. What would Norway do if Putin decided that he wanted the North Sea Oil that Norway now lives off of? Don't give me NATO, they are as worthless as the UN. Which, by the way, are all part of the One World Global Economy you say you hate.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,699
    How about those union people striking Boeing for not having a contract?

    I'll post this link because Steve probably would have put it up but I believe he's out of town.

    Boeing strike

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Wow, Rock, I understand your anger and frustration, but what you suggest would be economic suicide. I do like your idea of mandatory military service. But such drastic tariffs and protectionism policy would kill our economy. It might help GM, probably not since very few would be able to afford any car. Any US company that exports would probably die. If we raise tariffs 100%, what do you think our trading partners would do? They would reciprocate, which is what happened in 1930 with the Smoot-Hawley Tarrif Act. Unemployment was at 7.8% in 1930 when the Smoot-Hawley tariff was passed, but it jumped to 16.3% in 1931, 24.9% in 1932, and 25.1% in 1933. It alone nearly killed farming as Ag was one of our largest exports. Now the causes' of the Great Depression can be argued all day, but protectionism didn't help.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    "We're not greedy, we just want a piece of the pie" - Scott Daniels, 41, a facility worker at Boeing's Renton, Wash., plant.

    That sounds like one of Rocky's UAW lines. Our friend in Wilcox AZ can give us first hand analysis of the way Boeing operates. I look for Boeing to expand their Chinese operations. How hard is it to build an airliner in China and fly it back to the states for delivery? Our standard of living is headed down to meet the rest of the World's coming up. I am surprised we have held off the inevitable as long as we have.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    the Great Depression can be argued all day, but protectionism didn't help

    The Great Depression is only a few lines in the US History books in school. If people today think that what we are going through compares, they are totally out of touch with reality. We were riding high for a good long time in this country. I fear it is time to pay the PIPER. As in 1376 it will be our children that pay the ultimate price.
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