United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    With his intimate knowledge of the workings of the UAW, Rocky should get a job as an organizer. Head down to one of the import auto plants and hang out in the local bar with UAW cards for them to sign.

    That would be one cool job if it was available !!!

    The Van's were cargo 1500 series Chevy's with a large ice chest. I went from believing I was going to be a warehouse worker for a food distributor to being a door 2 door salesman slinging steaks. Hell selling AT&T U-verse, had more credibility but they still owe me around $700 in back commissions most of which I'm sure I will never see. I was still getting calls from former customers this weekend and I quit the place 3 weeks ago.

    Gagrice, I heard Costco's meat is of very high quality. perhaps I need to apply there ??? I hear they pay half-way decent and some of their stores are even union I hear. :)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    62,

    My information on leasing is coming from my best friend and #1 sales women at her Chevrolet, dealership and my former employer !!!!

    "The Rock"
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Marsha7,

    I have considered leaving Michigan, thus why do you think I'm considering so seriously this armed security job in Lousiana. My side-arm was for 6 years
    a Glock-17 for both Palisades Nuclear Power Plant & BWXT-PANTEX. I worked at Pantex, under the direction of National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)
    I drove desert tan Armored Military Hummers (H-1) , Armored Suburbans (Vikings) operated very highly classified security detection and computerized camera equipment. I was trained on the MK-19 shooting moving and stand still targets out of Hummers. I have been trained to employ deadly force if needed with the SAW-249 automatic machine gun that would fire 800 rounds a minute. My primary weapon which I carried around with me most of the time was a M4/AR-15 with special optics. Let's say marsha7, a bad guy with a firearm was 600 meters away ol' Rocky, had the ability and training to shoot em'. I also had on the bottom of my M4 a M203 grenade launcher that I was dead accurate with. The Glock 17, I was trained to "stop the threat" within' 50 yards. We qualified from the 50 yard line thus yeah not to brag but my training not just in firearms but in lots of other area's speaks for its self !!!! ;) I still feel my greatest strength I can offer any employer is my people skills and work ethic. I'm a team player but have little tolerance for people talking stupid to me. I value honesty, integrity, morals. I can pretty much get a long with anyone and left Pantex, most days with job satisfaction even though I couldn't look at the final product and say yeah I made that. That was hard for some of my co-workers. I got my job satisfaction by saying another day has gone by and nothing has happened to my turf. I was a very proud Pantex Guards Union (PGU) employee and always tried to get the big-wigs to adopt change. I submitted many suggestions and had some in management adopt my idea's and claim they came up with them. I didn't care as long as the improvement came about. ;) I'm sure you are familar with the Savannaha River D.O.E. site in Georgia ????

    The Brinks and Loomis, jobs you would think would pay good. I applied for a couple of them and both only paid like $12 an/hr. to my surprise. Wished we would break ground on these nuclear power plants that we are suppose to build. I'm waiting for a couple of Casino's here in Western, Michigan to be completed and one of them which will be like only 15-20 miles away from my home. I have Indian connections thanks to my father being a best friend to a native american whom he worked with at GM.

    The unarmed security jobs don't pay worth a hoot. It's almost like being a non-union employee, compared to being armed and getting paid decent like union employee. :P Thought I'd throw that in their to get a rise out of ya !!!! :P

    Well one would think VW, will pay better than Kia ??? I have nary a clue if the UAW, will try to organize these plants. I guess once we have a President Obama, in the White House, and the Freedom Of Choice, legislation passed then just perhaps those jobs might be worth moving for. If they are going to be $9-12 an hour sweat shop jobs then why leave Michigan ????

    "The Rock"
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I buy at Our Costco because it is represented by the Teamsters Union.

    I'm very proud of you gagrice !!! :)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    WOW, what a labor day speech from dallasdude !!! :surprise: I guess with the baby bomb Sarah Palin, has dropped on our country along with Gustav, lets just say the news was really worth watching this labor day !!!! :blush:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    UAW: Obama-Biden team 'the right choice for America'

    DENVER -- The campaign team of Barack Obama and Joseph Biden "is the right choice for America," UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said today.

    "We have a chance to elect two proven leaders who have a track record of support for working families, and fighting for the good-paying jobs that keep our country strong," Gettelfinger said.

    "Both Senator Obama and Senator Biden are from auto-producing states -- and they both understand the critical importance of manufacturing to our nation's economy."

    Obama and Biden, Gettelfinger said, "have been leaders in the U.S. Senate in developing plans to build the next generation of fuel-efficient vehicles in the United States so we can reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying jobs here at home.

    "Joe Biden," said Gettelfinger, "is a veteran and effective legislator who wrote the bill to put 100,000 police officers on the streets, helped pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, and has been a critical and thoughtful voice on foreign and military policy. He will be a dynamic partner in Senator Obama's campaign to change America for the better.

    "Senator Obama has opened up the political process this year in new and innovative ways, raising tens of millions of dollars from small donors and inspiring millions of new voters," said Gettelfinger. "He reminds many people in our union of a young maverick we supported in 1972, when nobody thought he had a chance to win: Joe Biden, during his successful underdog campaign for the U.S. Senate from Delaware."

    The Obama-Biden team's support for manufacturing jobs, said Gettelfinger, "offers a very sharp contrast to Senator McCain's dismal record on this issue." While McCain has belatedly joined a bipartisan effort to support federal loans to finance re-tooling of the auto industry, said Gettelfinger, "he has supported every one of the terrible trade deals negotiated by President Bush, which will send more of our jobs overseas -- and he still supports tax breaks for companies that outsource.

    "McCain's plan to tax our health benefits will impose a huge new tax increase on working families," said Gettelfinger, "but it offers no solution at all to the rising health care costs that are crippling the U.S. manufacturing sector.

    "Instead of the failed policies of the past, Obama and Biden are offering a bold new approach," said Gettelfinger. "They'll take tough action on trade to protect American jobs; end tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas, expand access to health care, and provide real tax relief for the middle class.

    "That's the kind of change America needs -- and that's why our union is proud to support Barack Obama and Joe Biden."

    The UAW, one of the nation's largest and most diverse trade unions, has more than one million active and retired members, with active members working in manufacturing, public service, higher education, health care, casinos, and other industries.


    http://www.uaw.org/news/newsarticle.cfm?ArtId=496

    Well the democrats, need to gain more seats to get things done like lowering gas prices. They also need the presidency which they should get next January, unless McCain, can pull a play from Karl Rove's, election year 2000 playbook. However I believe "Change is on the way" and President Barack Obama, will fix our country like a young democrat govenor from Arkansas, did in 1992. ;)

    With all due respect gagrice, I'm not sure we are the ones that are narrow minded. dallasdude1 and I, don't want 4 more years. We want change. The last democrat president wasn't perfect but he was a lot better than Dubya. At least under Obama, trade, currency manipulation, unions, human rights, will at least be looked at by an Obama, administration. Those are staples of what Obama, is running on. Most people agree in this country that we are headed in the wrong direction and want change. Ron Paul, was your party's strongest candidate for change and I supported him but now that ya'll picked McCain, he's more of the same and I think this time people are fed up and will cast a vote. I've never seen the union workers, middle class, more fired up for a election than now. John McCain's comment of saying anyone making less than $5 million a year is "middle class" goes to show you really how out of touch he is and many people still want to put this guy in office !!!! :surprise: :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:

    Respectfully,

    "The Rock"
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Marsha7,

    Where in Ga is that Kia plant going to be built?
    Any other details would also be helpful.
    Thanks,
    Kip
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"John McCain's comment of saying anyone making less than $5 million a year is "middle class" goes to show you really how out of touch he is and many people still want to put this guy in office !!!!"

    Obviously you didn't see the interview where McCain actually said that. Anything can be taken out of context. Which this was. When that happens, it is a lie !

    But wait.....!, You just wrote, "anyone making less than $5 million a year is "middle class" That was you typing, so you must believe it.

    Do you actually believe, or think McCain believes anyone that makes under $5 million yearly is middle class ?

    Another example of that is when one of the left wing media asked McCain how long we would have troops in Iraq. He said, "it could be a hundred years, just as we have had troops in Japan, Germany, for over 60 years and counting" (paraphrased). But the media, Obama, and now Biden only use the 100 year part. That is lying through omission!

    The pathetic part is that rather than check out the lies, some voters are ignorant enough or desperate enough to actually believe it. :sick:

    Kip
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    And mine is coming from the group that makes the decisions on leasing. Leasing is not going away at GM. They are just not putting all the incentives into it. But that can always change. Next week they could change their mind and cut off all leasing like Chrysler did. But if I knew that and told you that would be insider info!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    A worsening economy has eroded past income gains for many households - especially among middle- and low-income families.

    Layoffs are sweeping across many industries, while all consumers are getting squeezed by high food and fuel costs, soaring health-care expenses, and housing woes.


    Things are looking bad. Bankruptcy, loss of jobs. Much less tax money going into the government coffers.


    That means a federal investment in subsidizing private health insurance for the millions of citizens who don't quality for existing programs - plus a mandate that everyone purchase insurance to keep costs under control.


    So lets MAKE everyone purchase health care insurance. How much harder can the government squeeze the people of this country?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Who ever posted that opinion, is somewhat uninformed.

    The success of the states' government health insurance programs in covering more people shows the importance of expanding the federal child health insurance program, as Bush refused to do.

    That bill shot down by Bush was to cover children who's parents made $88,000 per year. They should be able to buy coverage for their family. I pay my own as a retired person. They take it out of my SS each month. People need to assume responsibility for their own welfare.

    Universal Health Care is the main reason I do not vote for any Democrat. I do not want the same health care mess they have in Canada and the UK. The USA cannot afford to cover everyone in the manner in which people perceive of universal health care. If you have an emergency and do not have insurance you can still get taken care of. That is for EVERYONE even illegal aliens.

    The UAW provides for health care. People need to analyze why it keeps going up. If you go to the doctor when you stub your toe, you are driving the cost up. That is what has happened in this country.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Too many folks out there are hurting due to the ill fated Republican policies. There is NO trickle down going on..

    I think the Democratic controlled Congress hasn't helped the situation over the past 2 years either.

    The rebirth of unionism/UAW are the answer to the failed compassionate conservative choke hold we find ourselves in.

    I hope unionism is not making a comeback. I may have to expedite my plans to move to some tropical island to retire. Although I had hoped to have some money, if unionism returns, I'll go and just work there the rest of my life.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    You forget that We were told in 2006 when gas was $2 that if you elected the Democrats to Congress they would get rid of high gas prices. Well I'm waiting. Just not holding my breath. When a Democrats lips are moving he is lying. He does not care about you or the UAW AT ALL. .

    I don't think the Democrats have a monopoly of over promising and lying. Neither party has much of a leg to stand on right now. Plain and simple, if you are waiting on the folks in Congress or the White House to make your life better, you are going to be greatly disappointed. We need an energy bill now not in February. We need to address this financial crisis now not in the 2010 budget. This winter when people have to shell out $1500 to fill their oil tanks instead of $700 last year, you will really see some financial problems.

    it's easy to point fingers at one party or the other. The real issue is our elected officials are more interested in getting elected than doing the right thing and running this country the right way.

    both candidates have their negatives and both have to deal with that 800 lb gorilla called the deficit. Not a job I would want. I rather have Rick Wagoner's job.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    OBama and the democrats very carefully named off unions in his milk toast speech at the convention. But the unions are the members of our workforce most likely to be hurt by his policies along with a congress that's controlled by democrats if elected.

    A commentator told how many of the delegates to the democrat convention were members of the teachers union. It was on the order of 1/3.

    The last 8 years have been [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat by the democrats. They were retaliating for what they perceived as excessive destructive publicity toward the Clintons. So they were out to vilify Bush no matter what he did. They stalled legislation to prevent anything that could be positive from getting through if they could stop it. Pelosi is the archexample of the villain here.

    The unions have nothing to gain because OBama will socialize more at their expense because union folk pay taxes. Unlike the off the table workers and illegals who work for cash, their pay is easily traceable along with the rest of the legitimate workforce.

    If you want to see lying check out Daily Koz and Moveon.org these days. They are so scared of Palin they're outdoing themselves. I await retaliation from Republican oriented groups now; OBama has lots of skeletons to bring out the weekend before election.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    rockylee: "Both Senator Obama and Senator Biden are from auto-producing states -- and they both understand the critical importance of manufacturing to our nation's economy."

    Apparently Mr. Gettelfinger doesn't read the newspaper, and is completely unaware that Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky are now "auto-producing" states.

    Of course, the factories there aren't unionized, so he may be ignoring them for that reason.

    The American people, however, appear to have discovered the vehicles produced by those factories, judging by sales trends.

    rockylee: Obama and Biden, Gettelfinger said, "have been leaders in the U.S. Senate in developing plans to build the next generation of fuel-efficient vehicles in the United States so we can reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying jobs here at home.

    This sentence needs to be rewritten for accuracy. Here is the accurate version:

    "Obama and Biden have advocated the receipt of taxpayer money by GM, Ford and Chrysler to build more fuel-efficient vehicles they haven't really wanted to build until now, as both management and union wanted to keep selling SUVs and light trucks to support unsustainable wage and benefit levels, maintain the Jobs Bank, and keep open brands that should have been put out of their misery, because in Detroit, it's always still 1965, and everything bad that has ever happened to the Big Three and the UAW is always somebody else's fault."

    Last time I checked, there are plenty of fuel-efficient, affordable cars that are being built here, with names like "Honda Accord," "Honda Civic," "Toyota Camry" and Toyota Corolla/Matrix." Granted, they aren't screwed together by the UAW and produced by GM, Ford and Chrysler, but perhaps someone needs to tell Senators Obama and Biden, Mr. Gettelfinger and the UAW that the domestic auto industry is no longer limited to GM, Ford and Chrysler.

    rockylee: Well the democrats, need to gain more seats to get things done like lowering gas prices.

    Yes, with more seats in Congress, the Democrats can repeal the laws of supply and demand as they relate to oil and gasoline, and pass legislation that will require everyone in India and China to give up their cars and walk.

    The fact that the U.S. Congress has no jurisdiction over India and China is just a minor inconvenience.

    rockylee: They also need the presidency which they should get next January, unless McCain, can pull a play from Karl Rove's, election year 2000 playbook.

    Considering that the economy isn't doing too well, we are in an unpopular war that Senator Obama can legitimately claim he opposed from Day One, and the incumbent is very unpopular and of a different party than Senator Obama, the fact that he can't break away from Senator McCain in virtually every poll I've seen is a cause for concern.

    rockylee: We want change.

    So do lots of people I know. That is why they are buying Toyotas instead of Chevrolets and Pontiacs, and Lexuses instead of Buicks and Cadillacs.

    Taking money from them, to prop up clueless companies and an equally clueless union, sounds like "more of the same," not "change."

    rockylee: At least under Obama, trade, currency manipulation, unions, human rights, will at least be looked at by an Obama, administration.

    Considering that the vehicles taking share away from GM, Ford and Chrysler are either built in Germany, Japan, Sweden and Korea, or produced in North American factories owned by companies based in those countries, I wonder how a human rights crusade is going to really help the Big Three.

    Last time I checked, those countries aren't exactly known for cruel treatment of their citizens. Perhaps President Obama is going to ban Toyotas and BMWs based on what the Japanese and Germans did during the 1930s, although that is hardly a way to improve our standing with our allies (a big part of his platform).

    And - I'll say this again - before the inevitable Chinese red herring is dragged in to the discussion, please note that no Chinese-made vehicles are imported to the U.S., and will not be ready for import to the U.S. for at least another 10-15 years.

    GM, Ford and Chrysler are getting beaten TODAY by Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais and BMWs.

    As for the old currency manipulation charge - ALL countries attempt to manage their currency levels. The Big Three have lost market share, regardless of the value of the dollar versus the yen, mark or euro. Must be some other explanation...
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    I went to look into getting a 2008 CTS (UAW made in Lansing MI) and they were all out. Employee pricing and a $2000 rebate cleaned them all out prior to the Labor Day holiday. Then I talked to the sales associate and she informed me that 80% of their business was lease. This is in an affluent neighborhood here in Dallas. They assured me that leasing was still alive and well. Just because some stupid finance companies are feeling the credit crunch and made some ill advised SUV leases, isn't cause for worry. I'm sure GW will bail them out also. However, if your in trouble sink or swim.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well don't point the finger at me as I'm not the one who said it. I did watch the Fox interview of John McCain, where he made the comment. The bottom line is if you crunch his big tax savings plan the average person making between $38-66K will save approx. $319.00 a yr. John, who made $6 million will save like $373,000 under his tax plan. Only 1 out of 100,000 people make more than $5 million. I guess kipk, you must be one of those ???? :surprise: If so hey good for you !!! :) The fact that he didn't know how many homes he owned made things worse. John and Cindy McCain, technically own 10 homes.

    -Rocky
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Lots of Corolla's are made in California by UAW labor.

    http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/index.cfm
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    62'

    Well it appears without the incentives leasing will no longer be an attractive option. I always thought Lincoln, had the best leases on the market from a value perspective. If I were to ever land a good job and was going to buy a non-GM, car which is very unlikely then Lincoln, and their attractive lease programs would be on my radar. However since it appears leasing will be un attractive in the future that won't be a option. Thanks, for the update as thatis different than what I or she was told. :)

    -Rocky
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Under Clinton the deficit was actually in the BLACK and thus the national debt was being paid off. Interesting that we complain about congress and not our own congress person, they get re-elected over and over. Like the one from Alaska who was taking from the oil companies to remodel his home. He is due in court at about the same time as the general election and was re-elected. Anyone with a sloped head, inset eyes, and who's knuckles drag could get elected there. Talk about Eskimo pie?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Rocky,
    Do you have any links for the wild claims about McCain's tax proposals or the 10 homes? Remember Obama said he would give tax cuts to 95% of working families. Kind of hard to do when the bottom 50% do not pay squat. More liberal lies. They know how gullible UAW members are.

    Just for the record it is tough to cut taxes on someone that does not pay any:

    The tax plan announced on Jan. 11 by Sen. John McCain would provide little or no benefit to the three-fifths of taxpayers who earn less than $39,000 a year; it also offers little to the one percent of taxpayers who make more than $319,000. Instead:

    * More than half of McCain's proposed tax cuts would go to taxpayers making between $65,000 and $130,000 a year, a group that includes 15% of all taxpayers.
    * Most of the rest of McCain's tax cuts would be divided between the 20 percent of taxpayers making between $39,000 and $65,000 (who get 21% of the cuts) and the 4 percent of taxpayers making from $130,000 to $319,000 (who get 19%).
    * Overall, the McCain plan would cut taxes by about $500 billion over ten years.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Under Clinton the deficit was actually in the BLACK and thus the national debt was being paid off.

    Where do you get this crap. The National debt went up $1.5 trillion during the Clinton administration. He did not pay down the debt ONE PENNY.

    Yes if Ted Stevens gets convicted fine and dandy. He is a good example of why we should have term limits, along with Teddy Kennedy. You might look at the record and you will find that Sarah Palin has crossed horns with Stevens on wasteful spending. Now Byrd is in the appropriations handing out pork. What is the difference in our corrupt Congress. And electing someone like Biden that has been a big part of the corruption. Check out where Obama put in for an Earmark of $4 million for Biden's lobbyist son. No wonder the UAW is going to the dogs with such uneducated membership.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Overall, the federal budget has been going deeper into the red since W.W.II. The only significant transition to a balanced budget occurred during the Clinton years. When Clinton left office the budget was balanced. Future generations were saving $400 per person on the cost of past debts. That amounts to a savings of more than $2000 per person over the deficits that existed when Clinton took office.

    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/launchpad/5577/philo/fedbgt4.htm

    http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=107&subsecID=295&contentID=252964- - -

    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy04/sheets/hist01z1.xls

    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/27/clinton.surplus/
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Good article lemko !!!! :)

    "The Rock"
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Where do you get this crap. The National debt went up $1.5 trillion during the Clinton administration. He did not pay down the debt ONE PENNY.

    He's right. By the end of the 2nd Clinton Administration, the government was running substantial budget surpluses. Do your own research if you don't believe him.

    Believe it or not, the Federal budget, measured as a percentage of total GDP, actually shrank during the 2nd Clinton Administration.

    As I noted in an earlier post, Bill Clinton was was a centrist DLC Democrat when it came to money matters. Many liberal Dems considered him to be a closet Republican who cared too much about balanced budgets. Of course, Republican control of both houses of Congress helped keep Bill honest.

    Then George W. took over. He & the Republican Congress blew off the roof. They spent money like sailors on shore leave. Even liberals couldn't believe their eyes.

    And yet there are some among us who call themselves fiscal conservatives. They want to reward the Republicans for their fiscal irresponsibility by voting for them.

    Gary, you've said that we should vote out all incumbents. Well, the only non-incumbent in the field is Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. He's the only candidate who does not currently hold office.

    The Republican Party is utterly worthless & will stay worthless until we kick it to the curb & force it to rebuild itself.

    Vote Libertarian. You'll feel better about yourself the morning after Election Day.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Another good article lemko !!!!

    62' you say how much more can the government squeeze people. Well if we don't require the purchase of health insurance and thisis coming fromsomebody who currently has none and is taking that risk because of finanacial matters well it's the tax payer who will get stuck with the hospital bill which isn't fair. I think the article was referring to affordable health care coverage and the way to do that is through health care markets like the ones John Edwards, proposed. Low income people will either get assistance or tax breaks to be able to afford the purchase of such coverage. You are right our country is hurting. I predict automobile sales will be far worse next year than this year and then what ???? :surprise: I'm very worried about GM, just like you as it will not only affect my pal 62's employment but many members of my family as well. The life cycle of our economy has been broken and the worker bee's have lost their disposable income, some of which was used to buy automobiles. :sick:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well perhaps we should do like Norway, and use our natural resources like oil to pay for universal health care. I personally feel our natural resources like oil in the Gulf of Mexico, belongs to each citizen. The Gulf of Mexico, isn't owned by a private citizen is it ??? Any oil drilled on federal, public, state, lands should be used to solve some of our crisis IMHO. Yeah, call me a socialist but I feel I make a good point !!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I respectfully disagree with you imidazol97, as the union workers are being strangled by Bushes economics and electing McCain, is more of the same. I can't support a politican who will use my tax dollars as a thank-you for leaving gift to out source our american jobs to China. I also refuse to support any politcian who thinks expanding NAFTA and like trade deals is a good thing for our country. I guess I'm a little suprised by your post as you live in a very industrialized city called Dayton. Dayton, Ohio was a representation of what made our country so damn great !!! It was one ofthe industrial backbones of not only the midwest but of our country. Many union workers with disposable income that used their purchasing power to buy many of things. The average UAW check at the Moraine plant switched hands at least 7 times and the tax revenue created buy all those damn good union jobs allowed the citizens of that city to have some of the best public education in the U.S. which included excellent salaries for it's bright teachers who were attracted to the location. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I 100% agree dallasdude.......Mr. Grbeck, believes it's those nasty unions like the UAW & IUE are the main reason why down GM, is down and that currency manipulation which gives foreign car company's like Toyota, billions of dollars a year in additional revenue to use at it's disposal is false, half-truths, a giant facade !!! :confuse:
    (don't tell him their is several articles by economist that say otherwise)

    Yeah the un free trade laws on the books are really helping domestic industries to compete with lower wage foreign rivals and those govermnets aren't subsidizing there industry at all, eh ???.

    Or that Toyota, didn't keep it's recalls and other manufactoring defects a secret in the 80's/90's to give a false perception of quality....that I suppose had nothing to do with it, right ???

    The trade barriers set up in Japan, to virtually eliminate the american cars from their market is all a big lie also I suppose ??? I also suppose that automobiles sold in China, must be made in china, is all a lie as well, right ???

    Or that states give multi-million dollar tax breaks to set up new, modern plants, in the U.S. and buy their politicans from both major party's hasn't contributed to the demise of GM and the rest of the big 3 either. Or such companies, don't threaten or fire union activist that have attempted to unionize the transplants for better wages, working conditions, etc.

    It amazes me that many of you that have never turned a wrench in a factory and have nary a clue to what it's like have all the right answers. Capitalism, with no federal regulation will continue to destroy this country and it's important manufactoring base which use to provide good paying jobs and people had enoughleft over to buy stuff i.e. Trucks. The evidence points that GM, cars are made just as well as Toyota's and in some even cases better but with extremely high energy prices, millions losing their jobs, domestic cars have taken a huge hit. I personally believe GM, never thought gasoline would stay around $4.00 a gallon thus it took the risk and built some of the finest Trucks and SUV's in the world. With $2.00 gas/diesel prices they would be selling much better. However many people have lost their jobs while the oil companies got richer. I don't want 4 more years of the same !!! :sick:

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    First if you believe what Bill Clinton says in a speech you are not interested in the truth. Balancing the Budget is in NO WAY paying down the National Debt. The Debt Was about $4 trillion when Clinton came into office and $5.7 Trillion when he left.

    I know he can spin it so a UAW worker believes he did a good job. Nothing I say will make you or Rocky believe otherwise. You need to study the National Debt a little more to understand that we are borrowing today for our children to pay. And Bill Clinton added his share.

    http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

    All figures are from the U.S. Treasury Department Website.

    Clinton's last day as President
    National DEBT on Jan 19, 2001............ $5,727,776,738,304.64 $Tril

    Clinton's 1st day as President
    National DEBT on Jan 20, 1993............ $4,188,092,107,183.60 $Tril

    DEBT: Down/(Up) under Clinton......... ($1,539,684,631,121.04) $Tril

    http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/bill-debt.html

    http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2008/08/bill-clintons-s.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    While I agree with you. For a President to pay down the National Debt it would have to be less than when he took office. I also disagree with the way he balanced the budget. It was by closing bases and cutting military spending. Those cuts cost good paying jobs. The military according to my Army lifer brother was a shambles under Clinton.

    I do share a lot of principles with Libertarians. I email back and forth a lot with Mike Benoit that is running for our Congressional seat. I would vote for him if I thought he had a chance. Same goes for Barr. We are stuck with a two party system. Without an amendment to get US out of that system third party candidates are only spoilers. Nader & Perot come to mind.

    Was 9/11 a good excuse for the NeoCons to do their thing? Could be. I am not at all happy with the spending over the last 7 years. It is still as a percentage of the GDP less than during WW2.

    You have to ask yourself. Would all those Nader voters in 2000 take back their votes to put Gore in Office? Do all those Perot voters lament putting Bill Clinton into office?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Rocky,
    Do you have any links for the wild claims about McCain's tax proposals or the 10 homes? Remember Obama said he would give tax cuts to 95% of working families. Kind of hard to do when the bottom 50% do not pay squat. More liberal lies. They know how gullible UAW members are.

    Just for the record it is tough to cut taxes on someone that does not pay any:


    Well let's count them togeather gagrice. ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhuMgUkiVOY

    McCain's tax proposal

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP-0pedQeGw

    -Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't want 4 more years of the same !!! :sick:

    Yeah, but I live in the state that Obama comes from. I don't want 4 years of the same either. Just look at Illinois, high taxes, out of control spending, and corruption. Our (D) Governor thought nothing of flying round trip on a private jet from Chicago to Springfield, IL, 9 times during a month long series of state budget meetings @ $6k a pop until people started screaming. Obama comes from this machine, maybe he is different, but I have a hard time trusting any politician out of Chicago.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I gotta agree that in todays US, $5 million yearly income sounds like a reasonable number to be rich. That would sorta be "filthy" rich. Lots of actors and celebrities and sports characters make that kind a money. That is 1 in 1000 americans and does not count those who make nothing per year but have huge savings. It depends on what you mean by rich. I think very, very well off would be $.5 million per year.

    There are lots of dual income professionals in this country that make 6 figures each. Say a total of $250,000. That to me is higher middle class. Neighborhood after neighborhood are filled with these hardworking professionals that live in little McMansions. They are living the american dream, the good life. And it was usually not given to them.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"The unions have nothing to gain because Obama will socialize more at their expense because union folk pay taxes. Unlike the off the table workers and illegals who work for cash, their pay is easily traceable along with the rest of the legitimate work force. "

    Yep !

    >"If you want to see lying check out Daily Koz and Moveon.org these days. They are so scared of Palin they're outdoing themselves. I await retaliation from Republican oriented groups now; Obama has lots of skeletons to bring out the weekend before election"

    Absolutely !

    I believe that the Clintons will somehow be instrumental in dragging out some of those skeletons. While I'm not a Clinton fan, I do feel that Hillary was kicked to the curb by the media, in favor of Obama. Just as McCain is being "Kicked" now.

    The Clintons don't like and are not properly acquainted with loosing. They aren't finished IMO.

    If Obama wins this thing, he will likely be there 8 years, and Hillary would be pushing 70 before any real chance at the White House would come again.

    On the other hand, maybe Obama has promised her a Supreme court seat or something. :sick:

    Maybe she has forgotten what a liar he is. ;)

    Kip
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    There are lots of dual income professionals in this country that make 6 figures each. Say a total of $250,000. That to me is higher middle class.

    I would have to agree. I have several friends from college where both spouses make 125k -150k each. Certainly high earners on their way to being well off but certainly not rich, like the dems claim.

    To me, rich is having enough money not to work and still have money for recreation etc.. That would require a minimum of $3-5 million worth of investments (not including real estate) to live on.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The issue is that, at least if you are not rich, you spend what you make. This is pretty much true of everyone. Most likely those dual income folks are in close, if not over, million dollar homes. Also they are probably close to paying 50% of their income in taxes-income, property and sales, with federal income really taking a bite because of their tax bracket. And they are also into the AMT which really sucks them down. AND they do not have any kind of method to reduce their taxs like the real rich do.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Just at the Cadillac dealer yesterday and there was a really nice Escalade in the showroom. It has got to be about the nicest SUV ever made! Too bad there isn't a market for such a vehicle. My crazy friend just bought a loaded Tahoe, but he's rich. I often thought about getting a truck to replace my old Park Avenue someday and the GMC and Chevrolet full-size trucks are about the nicest ones out there. My choice would probably be a "plain Jane" version as it would be strictly a work vehicle.

    Funny thing is I don't see any '80s Toyotas or Hondas out there while there still is PLENTY of Detroit iron out there. I just spotted a really nice Park Avenue of my car's vintage this morning. The car was in awesome condition. Too bad he didn't want to sell it. I would most definitely buy another 1980s Park Ave or Chrysler M-body if my car dies.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    There are lots of dual income professionals in this country that make 6 figures each. Say a total of $250,000. That to me is higher middle class. Neighborhood after neighborhood are filled with these hardworking professionals that live in little McMansions. They are living the american dream, the good life. And it was usually not given to them.

    The people you describe sound EXACTLY like my friends! I was there when they were going to school and they most definitely worked hard for what they have! These are bright people and the pressure from school often caused my one friend to act like a psycho until the pressure let up. Today, they have a beautiful house in a beautiful neighborhood and three children. He has a Corvette and just bought a new loaded Tahoe.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    The issue is that, at least if you are not rich, you spend what you make. This is pretty much true of everyone. Most likely those dual income folks are in close, if not over, million dollar homes.

    I think all too often though, people are victims of their own success. Every time they get a raise, promotion, or something that gets more income coming in, they find ways to "upgrade" their lifestyle so that they're actually no better off than before. They'll buy a new, flashy car when their current ride suits them just fine, take an erotic vacation, or trade up to a bigger house, that comes with a bigger mortgage, bigger utility bills, and a bigger property tax bill.

    Now there's nothing wrong with buying those things, IF you can afford them. But too many people struggle financially and put themselves at risk just to acquire that stuff, and in the end, it ends up owning them.

    Of course, stuff like those tax brackets, AMT, etc don't help things. But if people could control their spending and start living within their means, they'd be better off in the long run. Of course, short-term, in an economy that thrives on consumption, it would probably throw us into a full-blown recession if everybody started living frugally!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    For me to be rich, I wouldn't have to work at all and still live at least as well as I do. If I wanted to buy a car, I could just write a check and be done with it. I wouldn't even have to touch the Big Money. I could just live well off the interest generated by the sum invested. I could get up in the morning and just decide to go anywhere or do anything I pleased. "Wow, today I feel like skiing in Aspen! Let me call my secretary and ask her to make the arrangements!" Maybe tomorrow I just feel like crashing on the couch and watching Jerry Springer and Maury Povich in succession.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    They'll buy a new, flashy car when their current ride suits them just fine

    Oh c'mon! If you saw that 100-point Pebble Beach Concours quality R-body with the 360 V-8, you wouldn't buy it if you got a substantial raise?

    take an erotic vacation

    Did you mean take an "exotic" vactation? I'd love to take an erotic vacation but girlfriend always claims she's tired! :cry:

    or trade up to a bigger house, that comes with a bigger mortgage, bigger utility bills, and a bigger property tax bill.

    It is cheaper to buy more guns, get a c/c permit, a sophisticated security/surveillance system, and your property taxes should drop when the 'hood starts to change.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"Well don't point the finger at me as I'm not the one who said it"

    Sure you said it. It is right there in your post. Over your signature. ;)

    >"Only 1 out of 100,000 people make more than $5 million. I guess kipk, you must be one of those ???? " :surprise:

    Sorry darlin ! You guessed wrong! :surprise:

    >"John, who made $6 million.... "

    Cindy had an income of $6 million. Be honest now..., How much did John make??

    Obama reportedly made in excess of $4 million last year as a junior senator, while, running for president and voting in the senate with "Present". Where did that income come from? How much of that do you think he will willinging pay in taxes to support those that choose to not work? Of course he did spend $1.5 million on a house, with the help of a slum lord, who is now in jail.

    >"John and Cindy McCain, technically own 10 homes."
    What makes you think they are THEIR Homes, rather than just houses. . Big difference in homes and houses.

    In a recent speech, Biden said 7 houses.
    They most likely own a lot of other stuff that you and I don't. Neither of us know the true story of those houses. Are most of them rented out? Does extended family live in them?

    My across the street neighbor owned 3 houses until recently. He is retired from the Navy as a Master Chief. Does that mean he must have an income of 33% that of McCain, as he owned 33% as many houses? The fact that 2 of them were rental property has nothing to do with it ???

    You might want to forget about the UAW and join the navy and make those BIG $$$$ like my neighbor. $2 million a year retirement ain't all bad. Go for it! ;)

    Kip
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I also disagree with the way he balanced the budget. It was by closing bases and cutting military spending. Those cuts cost good paying jobs.

    If you're a true fiscal conservative then you know that the purpose of military spending is to safeguard the United States - not to create "good-paying jobs". It's defense, after all - not welfare. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, we had far too many bases. Everyone agreed about that but no one had the political guts to do anything about it.

    National defense is the Federal government's most important job. I'm willing to spend what it takes to keep us safe - but not one nickel more. Don't ask me to foot the bill for some useless base in Bumpoop - even if it creates "good-paying jobs".

    We are stuck with a two party system. Without an amendment to get US out of that system third party candidates are only spoilers.

    Where did you get this crazy idea? Have you read the Constitution lately? Probably not. Otherwise, you'd know that the Constitution doesn't even mention political parties - not even once. Why, then, do we have to amend it?

    What keeps the two party "system" alive is dumb habit, pure & simple. You're so used to political debates that take the form of Republicans vs. Democrats that you can't imagine anything else. Your excuse, such as it is, is that no one else has a chance, so why bother? Well, no one else has a chance because you've made up your mind that no one else has a chance.

    If you believe in low taxes & limited government & you go ahead & vote Republican, then you're an enabler, just as you would be if you gave your alcoholic brother-in-law a ride to the local tavern because - who knows? - maybe he'll change after he's had one more drink.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Funny thing is I don't see any '80s Toyotas or Hondas out there while there still is PLENTY of Detroit iron out there.

    Are you paying attention? Just yesterday, I spotted a 2nd generation (1987-91) Camry wagon & a 3rd generation (1986-89) Accord hatchback. Both looked rust-free to me.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Don't see any in Philly. I remember when these cars were dirt common. Now, I'm more likely to see a Duesenberg Phaeton rolling down Roosevelt Blvd. than an '80s Camcord.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    Oh c'mon! If you saw that 100-point Pebble Beach Concours quality R-body with the 360 V-8, you wouldn't buy it if you got a substantial raise?

    Well sure...heck, I've probably made more off-the-wall purchases than that in my lifetime. But I've never over-extended myself financially to do it. I'm probably cheaper when it comes to cars now than I was when I was younger! For instance, I just looked over some records, and I make almost double what I made when I bought my Intrepid. I still remember that thing was $22,389 out the door, with taxes, tags, an extended warranty I never got to use (although that might be a good thing), etc.

    But that doesn't mean that I now want to go out and buy a $44-45K car, simply because my income has doubled! Heck, I don't even like the thought of buying another car at the same price point as that Intrepid was, nearly 9 years ago!

    Also, just because my income had almost doubled, doesn't mean my takehome has. I contribute a lot more into my 401k than I did back in 1999. Health insurance is a lot more money these days. And other expenses have gone up as well. Electric rates have gone up about 60-70% in just the past few years. I don't know what the property taxes were on my house back in 1999, but I'd say they've gone up easily 50%. And we all know how much gasoline and home heating oil prices have done over the past few years. :sick:

    Plus, back in 1999 I still had that part time job delivering pizzas. Once you factor that in, I was easily taking home more per week than I do today! So maybe I'm not so much better off, after all. :surprise:

    Did you mean take an "exotic" vactation? I'd love to take an erotic vacation but girlfriend always claims she's tired!

    Yeah, that's what I meant, but just felt like typing it wrong. :shades:

    It is cheaper to buy more guns, get a c/c permit, a sophisticated security/surveillance system, and your property taxes should drop when the 'hood starts to change.

    Actually, that's one situation where I'd strongly recommend moving...when your neighborhood starts to turn south. No sense in risking your life by staying in a bad neighborhood because it's cheap. Or if you have kids and live in a community with really bad schools.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Well let's count them togeather gagrice

    Do you think the John Kerry or Al Gore had any idea of their property holdings? Al Gore claimed he did not even know he was a slum lord in 2000, until his renter raised a stink about substandard plumbing. Here is a true compassionate Democrat elitist.

    Al Gore is essentially a slumlord. A family (wonderfully) named the Mayberrys live in a house — 150 yards from Al Gore's Kennebunkport — infested with vermin and teeming with mentally disabled children, several of them adopted. And, Al Gore — yes, they write their rent checks to "Al Gore" — has been trying to evict these people from a house he refused to repair until the Mayberrys went public. The family of seven lives on $1,500 in disability checks. The Vice President's flunkies have been belittling and mocking the Mayberrys (lifelong Democrats) from the get-go.

    I am still waiting on the McCain tax proposal. An ad by the Democrats taking statements out of context is hardly a tax proposal. You also need to keep in mind, that the bottom 50% of the taxpaying public. Those are people working not on welfare paying NOTHING. The bottom 50% pay a total of 3.6% of the taxes. Kind of hard to give them much of a tax break. In spite of Obama's lies to the contrary. Nothing from nothing is still NOTHING.

    I am sure that any UAW worker that is my age and worked since high school as a Union member should have just as much to retire on as I do. I am no where near rich. I have less than a million in assets including my 401k. I am on a fixed retirement income and have to pay my own medical premiums through medicare. SS and Medicare that I paid into 46 years. If they pissed it away is that somehow the government's fault?

    Younger people that were hoping to jump on the UAW gravy train are SOL. They need to get used to it and get better educated. Do you really think the Democratic party that has taken more money from Chinese business men than can be accounted for, is going to do anything to stop that flow of money?

    I would plan on UAW Delphi jobs leaving for China, India, Mexico and other 3rd World countries no matter who gets into Congress or the Presidency.

    Just a thought. I hear that Rush Limbaugh pushes GM vehicles and proudly drives an SUV. While Obama and Democrats like Al Gore push Americans to buy Econo boxes like the Prius. Tell me again how the Democrats are helping the UAW with Al Gore buying a 100% made in Japan Prius????
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