By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
"I guess coming from someone who likely charges its clients $200-$300 an/hr. I should take your response with a grain of salt, no ??? "
Lord ,I am thick. Slow on the uptake or perhaps haven't been here long enough,rocky.
Rock - E ! Rock-E! But kudos regardless. Now as to your slick willy assertation. I will submit one small fact of acccounting. It is impossible to have a surplus if you are adding to the national debt. No doubt the Will was a skilled master. He could play poor Newt like a fiddle. Sample dialog. Willy Slick : We've got a budget surplus per the CBO. Maybe we should have a tax cut. Newt : tax cut tax cut big big tax cut. Willy : What do you mean tax cut ?, we can't afford a tax cut we have social services to pay for. Though brilliant and a damn good lawyer, he was alas, ethically void. Almost, ok actually, sociopathic Imho. Winner of the lilies of the field competition for 1992-2000, he toiled not nor did he sow . I am thinking the CBO and the DOL may have once made an accurate announcement. But I wouldn't take bets on it.
Government economists. you get what you pay for. Sidenote: Every president has either received false credit or false blame. Those that think they are responsible for the state of the economy are truly not in the know. Imagine being poor Jimmy Carter when Paul Volcker decided to demonstrate to the nation and world that the US would not tolerate hyper inflation.
20% ( verizon commercial ) when 10% was a double dose of cyanide? In the words of the illustrious Mr.T, I pity the fool.
LOL!!!!
I've lost my opportunity to become a double naught spy or an astronaut. Post on mon frere's.
That is why hundreds of thousands of employees were expendable whereas one Henry Ford was not...in half a million workers, not one of them had the brains, vision or talent that Henry Ford did...hence, workers are, and should be, expendable, as they always will be...trick question: what is the first thing to disappear when profit is gone???...employees who are no longer needed for the work that is no longer there...
rocky: "I guess coming from someone who likely charges its clients $200-$300 an/hr. I should take your response with a grain of salt, no ???"...actually, no...you forget, as most of you union brats do, that I am competing in the marketplace every day...if they don't like my rate, they can call 5000 lawyers in the Yellow Pages and go to the atty that is $10/hour less...for the price of a Chapter 7, I have lost clients who drove 25 miles away (not closer to their home) for a guy who charged $50 less...I compete in the open market every day, and I still believe in capitalism...you believe that unions should hold companies in a stranglehold, threatening to detroy them unless they give in to their demands...you won from 1930 until 1980s, until they found a way to beat back, and beat back they did...then, when they made junk (sorry, lemko, there still ain't enough of you to matter to bring the Big 3 back to 80% of the American auto market anymore), the market beat them back more, soon to oblivion...it took 50 years + or -, but market forces actually beat the union...
I have to survive on customer service to add value to what I do, and I hopefully do a decent job...that is a concept that has eluded UAW members, plus their families, friends, pets, etc...you still rah rah the union as the savior of mankind, yet you are blind to the junk that made them lose market share...
I can assure you that no one ever bought a Honda, Toy or Nissan because the CEO of GM or Ford was overpaid...they deserted the Big 3 because of quality issues, altho I wonder if they ever figured out that the quality issue was a union problem...
No worry, just give it time, and the UAW will be alongside the Roman Empire in the ancient history books...
You can add the USA to that list if we keep sending all our work overseas.
I wonder how many cars are assembled in the USA today vs 1970? I would guess more are built here today. Just not in Detroit. Japanese and Germans are building plants here to get away from repressive Unions in their countries same as the Big 3 leaving here to get away from the overbearing UAW.
Now if we could just get our TV and Refrigerator manufacturers back, we would be all set. We still make beer don't we?
Not in some places much longer. The great Anheuser Busch here in St. Louis is negotiating with Belgian brewer InBev on a buyout. :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And, of course, we could spend HOURS discussing whether those non-union cars are better made than the union cars, but the market speaks quite clearly...just not enough lemkos left to change that ratio forever...:):):)
The CAW split off from the UAW in 1984:
CAW
My one CAW car was, shall we say, not a good experience - the infamous Windstall. Can hardly blame the Canadians for that one. Our first Odyssey was built in Canada. My old Sebring was built in Mexico.
I have along line of American built Japanese makes. Right now three of our four cars are that, the Celica being the exception.
Even once had a Canadian Volvo.
Not sure of other experiences but Oshawa 1 and 2 (Century/Regal/Impala/Grand Prix/LaCrosse/Monte Carlo) consistently score as tops in both intial quality and long term dependibilty. Some years one car is #1 and another may be 4rth (data not available to public) but Oshawas cars are always near the top and outscore the Camry and Addord.
2006 VDS
Midsize Sporty Car
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Toyota Solara
Ford Mustang
Midsize Car
Highest Ranked: Buick Century
Buick Regal
Mercury Sable
2007 VDS
Midsize CarHighest Ranked:
Buick Century
Buick Regal
Mercury Sable
2008 VDS
Midsize Sporty Car
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Toyota Camry Solara Coupe/Convertible
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Midsize Car
Highest Ranked: Buick Century
Mercury Sable
Toyota Camry Sedan
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
BTW, the animal of the day for used for entering... is??? :confuse:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"I can assure you that no one ever bought a Honda, Toy or Nissan because the CEO of GM or Ford was overpaid...they deserted the Big 3 because of quality issues, altho I wonder if they ever figured out that the quality issue was a union problem... "
I wonder why EVERYTHING bad about the Big 3 is always the unions fault in your eyes. Yes, I have heard your experiences with UAW members and they ARE disheartening. Those incidents make me ASHAMED to be a union member!!!!
HOWEVER, I WILL REITERATE:
MANAGEMENT, not the UNION decided to ignore the US car market for 15 YEARS while they concentrated on trucks and SUV's
MANAGEMENT made the union build Buick Centuries and Cutlass Cieras with only COSMETIC CHANGES from 1982 'till 1996!!!!
MANAGEMENT decided to keep the Grand Prix on the SAME PLATFORM for 20 YEARS (1988-2008, thats actually 21 models)
MANAGEMENT flooded rental car companies with bare bones models, thereby diluting a soft resale market even further.
If you look at the new Malibu, actual sale prices far outstrip their predecessors because MANAGEMENT decided to use better materials in building what was a good looking car to make it that much more appealing. How about that???? Spend more money on better quality materials, AND build it with UNION labor, and the car still makes money.
Amazing what happens when MANAGEMENT pushes the right buttons.
Good post.
"Meanwhile, he believed that smart managers had an incentive to do right by their workers, because doing so would actually maximize their own profits. (Ford did acknowledge, however, that many managers were basically too bad at managing to understand this fact.) But Ford believed that eventually, if good managers such as himself could successfully fend off the attacks of misguided people from both left and right (i.e., both socialists and bad-manager reactionaries), the good managers would create a socio-economic system wherein neither bad management nor bad unions could find enough support to continue existing."
In spite of his dispising unions, he doubled his wage in 1914 because his managers were hiring 300 people every year to fill 100 positions.
But, in true CEO type fashon, he also pried into the lives of his employees to make sure they lived a lifestyle that he approved.
....
Not true. The GM10 platform GP was introduced in late 1988 and replaced by W platform GP in early 1997.
Rocky may go overboard in his union defense, but I think he means well. Sometimes I think Bob says his incendiary union comments to get him riled up :shades:
Thanks, Rocky. I went in this morning for my badge and benefits overview. I was quite impressed with the package.
As I said the other day, I'm both happy and sad about the career move. I'm happy at finding a new job with excellent benefits so quickly in today's economy that is similar to what I've been doing.
I'm sad about leaving my old job, where I've spent nearly half my life with the UAW. I've gotten to know a lot of people there over the past 25 years and I'll never see most of them again.
We had a big rally today in front of the plant. There were a handful of politicians who gave fiery speeches that drew lots of applause and chants of USA! USA! USA! At times I thought I was watching an Olympic hockey game against Russia.
The rally was meant to sway Cerberus from their decision to close the plant but I doubt it will make any impact. The upper echelon in Auburn Hills made their decision a long time ago and no amount of common sense reasoning with them is going to change that.
I hope your job search is successful.
You all make good points...I know mgmt decides when to change models, but I come back to gagrice's comments (maybe someone else) about poorly fitting doors, that are the direct responsibility of the assembly line...that is what sends buyers away, that kind of poor quality...I don't think design would be a problem, as folks have been buying Accords for years, and they don't change radically at all, IMO...
As far as Henry Ford, it is a paradox...no employer wants turnover or continual training new people for the same job, so, yes, he would want to keep people...when I say expendable, I simply mean that Henry Ford would replace an employee and train another long before he would close up shop...the bosses job is secure, because he IS irreplaceable, but an employee is not...in the same vein, a floor sweeper at WalMart is certainly more expendable then the regional manager...
Yes, but if you look at that report on GM that was on TV a few weeks back, look at the assembly workers comment. Years ago, when they mentioned about something poorly fitting, the supervisor would say "F&^k it, let the dealer take care of it". Now, they are taking care of it on the line.
I will always have my rants against the union, but I want to see GM make cars as good as my previous Prelude and Legend...I am of the opinion that the union has not been the "driving force" behind great quality in cars...maybe losing a few hundred thousand jobs made the union realize that their jobs are not divine right and bad cars can cause unemployment, or, worse, no auto plant in which to work...
Sure some of you are on the same page as me or close to being on the same page as me but even people like Bob, I have to admit is likable even though he pushes my buttons at times !!! :P :P :P :P
The bottom line is I hope Congress, approves the new stimulus package on behalf of the Big 3, it's the least they can do for screwing them over in the first place !!!! :mad:
Rocky, applied for a loss prevention investigator with Target, loss prevention & sales jobs with Best Buy and Costco today !!!!!!!! :surprise:
I was born on Thanksgiving aka November 25th 1978 in Long Beach, Cali in the U.S. Naval Hospital and from that day on I've impacted so many lives it's just crazy !!!!
Tomorrow Rocky, is going to interview for a activism job !!!!
I might have to grab the mic tomorrow and lay ground to my 2020' run for the presidency tomorrow :surpise: J/K
I had a social studies teacher that told me in the 8th grade that I would be the most likely to run for president out of all his students he's had !!!!
This job/group supports ending the war in Iraq, supports a 5+ billion government investment in clean energy, and also supports national healthcare, all of which I support. I probably will differ from the base on other issues but I might have to use my Slick Willy, charisma to show em' "The Rock" is right !!!
The young lady I spoke with said she couldn't wait to meet me
I told her she has nary a clue what she is getting herself in by inviting me !!! I'm a conservative socialist with genes and heritage I'm very proud of. 6 ft. 2 in. blond hair, scandinavian blue eyes, 2/3rds German,1/4 Norwegian & Danish (Scandinavian) touch of Irish, English, Scottish. I'm very confident I can take over a crowd !!!! I can fire up people !!! I've done it in talent contest and just perhaps "The Rock" will have to rock the mic, tomorrow and show some love for Barack Obama, even though I don't agree with him on all topics !!!!!!!!! :shades:
"The Rock"
Management certainly has made tremendous mistakes at GM. However they were being squeezed by their high cost structure which was largely due to the union. So while the management ultimately takes the final blame, if the structural costs were lower, perhaps they wouldn't have delayed new designs, chosen the cheapest suppliers, etc. -- which DO make a big difference in the quality of the product. So even the *management* decisions were not fully independent of the union situation, and the union deserves some blame, too.
As I've also posted before, when us non-union people hear nothing but stories of strikes for more money, more benefits, job banks, etc. while the product is junk then that doesn't cause a lot of sympathy. If I heard that the UAW was protesting/striking because the management was allowing a junk product to be made then I'd see much more value to the high UAW wages and benefits.
Rocky, we like you too! It got dull for a while when you weren't posting!
We wish you the best in your job search. Be flexible on the job and the state/location and I'm sure there is something out there that fits you well!
My father, might only be a factory rat but his GPA in high school was 3.9 and at MSU for pre-medical was 4.0
He signed up for the U.S. Naval Academy and orginally went into Navy Nuclear, to work on a subamarine because he was so damn smart !!! However, this same father, decided to work on the radio systems and thus became an electronic technician instead so he wouldn't have to spend so much time under water.
The union has to take some blame for the problems at GM, but ultimately both GM White & Blue Collar workers can blame Ronald Regan, for allowing outsourcing to become a regular practice under his administration !!!!!!!! :sick:
Can you smell what "The Rock" is cookin' ???????? :P
I appreciate it pal !!! I understand that I'm a extremist on the issues but don't thank for a momment, I wouldn't take a bullet for any of you !!!!
"The Rock" :shades:
I think in this case though, the Canadian plant was much more modern than the US plant, so that probably made most of the difference right there.
I have asked that very question. Has the UAW ever gone on strike because they were ashamed of the product they were building?
Another question. What percentage of white collar folks make less per year than the UAW workers at GM? I would expect the engineers to make a good percentage more on a yearly basis.
If your looking at loss prevention, I'd apply at every retail chain in your area. They always have a need. Do some research to find where the nearest district offices are for the likes of CVS, Walgreens, Kroger, Best Buy etc. They generally are decent paying jobs. Good luck.
This job/group supports ending the war in Iraq, supports a 5+ billion government investment in clean energy, and also supports national healthcare, all of which I support. I probably will differ from the base on other issues but I might have to use my Slick Willy, charisma to show em' "The Rock" is right !!!
Rocky, I wish you the best of luck, but some of these organizations - particularly the Public Interest Research Groups (PIRG) founded by Ralph Nader - offer low pay and tough working conditions. They are sweatshops in every sense of the word. And I've heard this from several disillusioned LIBERALS who actually worked for them. Be very careful...
One of the reasons management focused on trucks was because they were the high-margin products needed to maintain the high cost structure of the companies, which included very generous wages and benefits for both white- and blue-collar workers and retirees.
A company can't pay UAW-level wages and benefits when it relies on small cars to bring home the bacon. Americans simply will not pay enough for most small cars to make them THAT profitable.
Note that even Toyota was avidly pursuing the light-truck market (to the point of building that huge new plant in Texas to build the bigger-than-ever Tundra). Why? Because that is where the fat profits were. And Honda still imports the Fit from Japan. About the only real "premium" small car that sells in large numbers is the Honda Civic.
As I understand labor law, that would be an illegal strike, and the UAW would face sanctions for authorizing such a strike. The union can't just strike over anything.
W did have 2 different wheel bases at one time.
Actually they built 2 plants to build the trucks but are now xonverting the 2nd to cars.
Now, as far as rocky for President???...uh, fuggedaboutit...too radical, too far left, too wacky in thought process, just a good old American Socialist with some redeeming qualities...
National healthcare is a loser for one main reason...try reading the Constitution and it simply isn't there, among many other things...it would create a bureaucracy that will tell you what you can and cannot do...you think an insurance bureaucrat is bad now???...wait until a GOV'T bureaucrat can control your healthcare...why does everyone think that health care is a right, that someone else MUST give up their time and skill for you???...when, rocky, does the grocery store have to give you food because eating is a right???...when does the power company have to supply you with electricity w/o paying for it, because reading at night is a right???...basically, where do you come off thinking that anything that you WANT to be a right is a right???
Why can't people pay for what they get???...don;t tell me about the expense, because I have a string of uneducated poor in my family, they can't find $30 for a MD visit, but they NEVER lack money for cigarettes, satellite TV, and potato chips...it is their PRIORITY, and that is OK, but when you make something a right, that means someone else is FORCED to give them a product or service at their expense...tell me, rocky, when will you make cigarettes a right, so that those who smoke MUST be given cigarettes, because they cannot afford their addiction, so I must be taxed to pay for it...
No, rocky, your thinking is naive and childish...people can almost ALWAYS pay for what they want, as long as it is a priority...I have seen people complain at $30 office visits yet they just came back from a week at Disney...they put Disney on a credit card that will take 5 years to pay off, but the office visit, that is not high on their list...
Why don't you create a gov't bureaucracy that can grant or deny permission to folks going to Disney, or decide whether folks can have children, something that might make dent in something???...stop the poor from having children, since all they do is make more poor people...stop them from buying cigarettes so they have money for doctor visits...why don't you do the right thing and make people choose wisely, instead of simply GIVING them free healthcare while they abuse the hell out of themselves and their kids with junk food???...why can't you do something intelligent and teach them the smart choice instead of letting them be stupid with their choices and then force doctors to treat them for nothing???...why can't you see that your socialist leanings are detrimental to this country???...I won't even quote any of the hundreds of stories about people from sociliazed medicine countries coming here for their health care, because you may not understand them???
Good luck on the job...I hope you strike gold in your new niche...at least you won't be selling steak from door to door... :P
Well my brother signed the lease and at that juncture I had my phone turned off and when we left I turned my phone on and what ya know Best Buy, left me a voicemail and asked I return the call thus I called her back.
I felt like a politician in front of them and they said "Rocky, we want to offer you a job" so I agreed to do it part-time because their was no benefits due to limited obvious resources. It was something I felt I needed to do. I have relatives who have ran for office and my 2nd cousin is currently running for senate in Idaho. She has a legit chance to win. I guess politics is in my blood. Barack Obama, has inspired me to get involved and both him and McCain, did a good job talking about "public service" this evening on CNN.
So yeah I had quite a blessed day. I'm going to call on another job tomorrow my step-mom told me about so hopefully my luck is changing for the better and my prayers are paying off.
I wanted to post these articles for ya'll !!!!!!!
Today is pension deadline for Delphi
Auto parts supplier Delphi has until today to transfer its pension plans for hourly workers to its former parent, General Motors Corp., or the government's pension insurer says it plans to file a claim for another $900 million of Delphi's assets.
The lien for missed contributions could be filed as early as today with the Washington, D.C., Recorder of Deeds, said Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. spokesman Jeffrey Speicher. The PBGC has filed $1.6 billion in liens against Delphi's foreign subsidiaries.
"PBGC must continue to protect Delphi's pension plan participants and the pension insurance program as the funding deficiencies of Delphi's plans grow ever larger," PBGC Director Charles Millard wrote in a letter Tuesday to Delphi and GM.
Closing to be discussed
Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle is leading a delegation to Detroit today to talk with General Motors Corp. officials about a planned closing of the automaker's plant in Janesville.
The automaker plans to close the plant by 2010 because high gas prices have curtailed sales of SUVs, leaving hundreds of people without jobs
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080912/BUSINESS01/809120302/10- 14&GID=9zgobd9WJcLw6bflQKUvoxF579kNV+75aB7oL4JQUAM%3D
Things aren't looking good for Delphi !!!!! :sick:
"The Rock"
ROTFFLMAO !!!! :P The bad part is I planned on making a trip to San Diego, to sell some to gagrice, since he's not picky about the quality of his meat !!! :P :P :P
Marsha7, I can't believe you of all people a hard core liberatarian, would disagree with my socialistic positions ???? I'm stunned !!!!
The bottom line is more people in this country than not agree with me on the issues.... The majority believe we need national healthcare or some other form to lower costs for the individual citizen. I don't see too many Europeans, complaining, or starving about how bad it is. you can say this or that about socialized medicine but I'd rather spend the money on healthcare, than Iraq !!!! I don't care if I have to pay more taxes. It will save my beloved Big 3 money as well and would defintely improve there situation. I love my governement and have faith in them. I'm not anti-government, like some of ya'll. The consitution was a great foundation for this country back 200 years ago but like the times it needs to be well updated. I disagree with anyone who says the private sector works better than our government at everything. Some of our brightest people are in our government and they showed how well they can work when they join hands for a common cause like they did with Hurricane Gustav. I was proud to be an american, that day and was proud that my government took corrective action.
I do agree with some of your positions regarding disney, on a credit card but no to a doctor. The flip side of the coin is life is tough and sometimes people do questionable stuff just to save their family. Perhaps that trip to Disney, saved a marriage and a family. I'm not saying what they did is right but my god marsha7, many people are borderline ready to loose it in this country. we as americans are working ourselves to death for our employers and they cut this and that all because of the global economy. The idea of going global, is the greatest mistake in american history !!!! We have not gained one positive long-term benefit from outsourcing to China !!! The lead tainted goods that are inexpensive have destroyed our country. People might of got less in the past but damn it they had qaulity stuff and their brothers, sisters, friends, had good paying jobs !!!!
I believe I might not always be right on all the issues but many of them like Trade, Border Security, 2nd Amendment, have 100% faith in my judgement because I've studied these issues from all angles for a darn long time.
"The Rock"
P.S. I got some friends and family to sign the employee freedom of choice act !!!
John: "You can help them now".
Sam: "How"?
John: "You can come to my house and spend the day working in the yard. You know, cut the grass, trim the hedges, and make the yard pretty. When you are finished I will pay you for your hard work."
Sam: "How does that help the poor and homeless?"
John: "You can take the money and give it to a homeless person, and they can buy what they want."
Sam: "Why don't THEY just do the yard work themselves and you can pay them for THEIR labor?"
Kip
Sam: "Why don't THEY just do the yard work themselves and you can pay them for THEIR labor?"
John: Welcome to the Republican Party
No Work, No Eat