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You will have to get a job at Costco. I buy most of my meat from them. If you pick the right store it will be Union. Not all Costco stores are Union. Only the ones from San Diego that were Price Club to start with.
If you like socialized medicin that much, please move to Cuba...they have all you could want, but the union population is probably a little low...
Well, that's what you say. I see a lot of rendering by the government an I'm not convinced you can lump it all under the bad category. (Alaskans got over $3,000 in handouts today, so it's fresh on my mind). There is a general welfare clause in Article I that's pretty wide open to interpretation.
In UAW news, Ford and Chrysler are offering more buy-outs (or outright cuts) and GM is planning to end a shift at the Moraine OH plant that makes SUVs. Mitsubishi is without a UAW contract as of last week but negotiations continue.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
P.S. I was picking on you gagrice, because like many in my family we are picky when it comes to food quality.
I tell you folks one thing it's pretty sad watching all these people getting laid-off. Delphi-Wyoming, MI where my step-dad works laid-off like a hundred people last week....... :sick: It's gotten so bad that they had their machines up for sale with no takers and thus will scrap them out for the steel content !!!! :surprise:
-Rocky
Well marsha7, your average citizen isn't smart enough to do the neccessary things needed to keep him/her afloat. The proof can be looked at people who win the lottery and are broke in a couple years. Not all of us human beings are blessed with a intellegent brains and common sense. Some of it boils down to genetics as not all people are created equal in that department. If you mix trash with trash marsha7, well in most cases but not all you will get trash !!! "If you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig" :P :P :P :P :P On the flip side given the circumstances of our current society the system is set-up for the elites and only they are living the american dream. The american dream for most is to have a good paying job, modest home, a couple of cars, and a loving spouse and kids, with a few bucks to do things like Clark W. Griswald, taking his family to Walley World !!!!
health care should be paid for, just like gasoline, food, car, and home...why do you insist like treating us all like welfare recipients, who are basically incompetent human beings (think Katrina and New Orleans) and have no right to steal, yes, steal, money from my paycheck and yours...
See above !!! To live in a safe and secure working society it takes money i.e. tax revenue !!!!
If you like socialized medicin that much, please move to Cuba...they have all you could want, but the union population is probably a little low...
Some of the best medical doctors in the world practice in Cuba. A country with such limited resources and a dictator running the show is better off than many other carribean islands !!!
-Rocky
I think they start at my Costco around $17. Not sure the top scale. I know I read an article that Costco has higher earnings per man hour than Sams Club. They attributed that to happier employees.
Some of the best medical doctors in the world practice in Cuba.
A very large percentage of Cuban doctors and other professionals bailed out and came to the USA. They continue leaving when possible. The population is dying of malnutrition and the health care is very basic. If Cuban Health Care was so great, why did Castro fly a doctor from Spain with all his equipment for his own treatment?
You are watching too many communist Hollywood types like Michael Moore. I have a friend that has sneaked into Havana via Mexico several times to play music and record the music. He says the poverty in Cuba is appalling. Only the Castro elites live like kings. If that is the kind of society you are looking for count me out.
As far as the Costco, wages for the unionized workers goes well that is respectable. I guess well paid workers will keep the moral high and keep quality workers in place for the long-term. I'd like to shop at ya'lls Costco !!!
"The Rock"
" Ah... but the beer itself will still be made in the U.S. of A. "
True, and we may be in fact benefited if they begin to brew beer as they do in Belgium. I'm not talking Amstel here, I mean the true quality stuff each Belgium town offers to locals. Rare is it to see a town without 3 local beers. Their cuisine as well is superb while the french is perhaps overrated. A short anecdote on Anheuser Busch. In the Budvar region of what used to be czechoslavakia ( didn't we used to spell it czechno? ) anyway, being from Budvar, the local beer was called Budweiser and their motto was the beer of kings. This beer has been brewed under this name since the late 1700's. So AB not only stole their name and mistranslated their motto but sued them to prevent them from using the Budweiser name in America. And won ! Globalization cannot be stopped. It has to do with an economic concept called comparative advantage which states, who ever shall be able to produce a good at the least cost should produce it. Though we may dislike it, the theory holds true with autos as well. We hold onto an America must produce automobiles ideal as we do an America must provide it own food ,and we pay for it. Paying farmer's not to produce something ? If you have to subsidy anything from the government, it's time to let it go. Do what you do best. It's almost radical in its simplicity. Anyway, should the UAW or more likely the UBB have existed in Belgium or at InBev. They would not have been exalted , more likely malted.
Globalization won't produce much good for westerners, unless one is already in the top 1%...
There is no love lost by myself for Lobbyist. I am hoping McCain will clean that up along with earmarks when he becomes President. He has also championed campaign finance reform. He went with the Federal campaign money and Obama did not. I think Obama made a mistake.
How much do you think the UAW spent on lobbyist?
I haven't looked it up in some years.....I know I'm going to get criticized for saying this but I view lobbying by labor unions different from corporations. The unions aren't getting direct earmarks from tax payers and the main reason why they have to do it because their opposition "corporate america" spend billions lobbying senators and congressman and the only way to combat stupid laws like the "Right To Work For Less" well they have to do something. If I remember the Teamsters, spend the most money on lobbying but that makes sense because they are the biggest labor union !!!
"The Rock"
P.S. Gotta go work on getting voters registered !!!!
What would you call the bailout of the Big 3 if not PORK? Was that not added to another bill before Congress adjourned?
Third party presidential candidate, Ralph Nader, is coming out against GM, Ford, and Chrysler's bid for $50 billion of low interest federal government loans.
Gotta go work on getting voters registered !!!!
Don't register any non-citizens or Illegals :shades:
Give us your opinion on how honest the operation is.
The bailout would benefit all the country in the end. It will benefit the areas with factories that supply the US brand auto makers. It will benefit the country when we don't end up with foreign companies controlling the auto industry even more than they've been allowed to so far.
I thought pork was money to benefit smaller groups or local interest politics. E.g., placing a training facility for FBI agents in rural, hard-to-reach West Virginia. Of course I believe they built an interstate to nowhere to serve that area subsequently--go Mr. Bird.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was more responding to rocky justifying Union lobbying. I think the whole lobby process is wrong. If the bailout money gets used as the legislation lays out it will probably help the workers keep their jobs a while longer. I hope they take the breather to re-train themselves if they are not close to retirement age. I do not see much hope for the Big 3 if they cannot build a small efficient car that people can afford and want. Heck they cannot even build an SUV that I want anymore. Of course they are all being built in Mexico. So my Sequoia put more bread on a US workers table than if I had bought another Suburban.
PS
Yes, Senator Byrd holds the Pork strings now with the Dems in Charge. Stevens had a good run when the Republicans had the majority. Sad way to run a country.
Well, if you would have bought a suburban, you would be supporting a few more mechanics
That is the sad truth :sick:
How's that Expedition? If Ford would put a small diesel in them, it would be on my new short list. This Sequoia is my last new gas engine.
That is a fact. And your lack of knowledge of the SS system is a testament. First and foremost. I paid into SS my 46 years of working. If I would have put that money in a simple savings account I would be a lot better off than I am. I would be getting a lot bigger dividend check. Second the SS fund was flush with money in the late 1950s and early 1960s when JFK and the Democrats decided it would be better used in the general fund. To date $3.5 trillion of our National Debt is owed to the SS fund. So this whole smoke and mirror thing of the current deductions going to pay the recipients of SS is just political BS. Just another example of tax and spend Democrats enslaving the populace for their own elitist benefit.
So why are UAW retirees not taking advantage of the Medicare they paid into? Why are the Big 3 strapped with their health care benefits after the age of 65? Our Union quit paying health care after retirement in the 1980s. They were smart enough to see the hand writing on the wall. The UAW was not and they are killing the goose that was laying the golden eggs. There is stupidity for you to think about.
But U.S. executive pay outpaces that of Asian companies, including Asian automakers.
Detroit automakers have focused on the gap between their hourly workers and those of the non-union foreign automakers in the USA. Union workers say the executive pay gap should be examined, as well.
"There is a huge difference between Asia and here when it comes to the top executive compensation," says Han Kim, a professor of business administration at the University of Michigan. "Rarely in Asia, especially Japan and Korea, do the CEOs get paid more than a million dollars."
Japanese companies are not required to break out salaries and bonuses for top executives. Instead, they lump them together. Last year, Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined $21.6 million in salary and bonuses, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. U.K. firm Manifest Information Services, which analyzes proxy information, estimates Toyota's top executive, Hiroshi Okuda, earned $903,000 in 2006.
At Honda, the top 21 earned $11.1 million, combined, in salary and bonuses, SEC filings show.
"There is this huge gap between the average worker and the CEO, and the gap is greatest in the U.S.," Kim says. "That kind of thing might work where individual work counts the most, but in the manufacturing sector, it's all about teamwork."
It's difficult to get a precise comparison because Japanese companies are not required to include perks. "It's a very tough comparison to make," says David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research. The perks given to Japanese executives can include homes, chauffeurs, country club memberships. In the USA, "our disclosure on things like this is pretty complete. The first inclination is to say there's this huge difference, but I don't think that's true."
"It's true that they have some of those extra perks," Felax says. "But let's not kid ourselves; so do the American guys."
Focus on hourly pay
Despite UAW grumbling about executive pay, the focus throughout the current labor negotiations has been on hourly worker pay. GM's proposed contract attempts to close the gap between its workers and those of its foreign rivals.
It's estimated that GM workers earn an average $73 an hour when benefits including health care and pensions are added in. That appears to be about $25 an hour more than Toyota's U.S. workers.
Toyota and GM workers earn about the same hourly wages. Benefits are what push the UAW members ahead. The GM contract slashes the hourly rate by making changes in retiree health care. The contract also will allow GM to bring in certain workers at lower wages.
For Gregory Stack, a Chrysler union worker in Detroit, the conversation about hourly pay seems unfair.
"We're all pretty much watching helplessly as the situation with the domestic auto industry worsens daily," says Stack, who is a third-generation autoworker. "Unions are getting a lot of negative press as being the sole cause of all the problems with the corporations."
While he's willing to take some concessions in the upcoming contract, he says he hopes something is done to fix the wage structure up top, as well.
"The disparity is massive," he says. "It does not all necessarily lie with the unions."
Where is that advantage? We don't even want to go BMW or Benz since they make more in wages and benefits. These imports putting plants in the states get better labor rates (both hourly non-union and CEO) and are closer to the consumer, since Americans are the number one consumer nation.
Sorry for the diversion. UAW not striking while it is a good thing, makes for little news.
That was my contention in 1964 when I voted for Goldwater. Get rid of SS and let people take care of their own future. I will be lucky to live long enough to get even close to what I have put in, not counting the interest.
Here is the question: How many UAW workers will end up with little from the Big 3 and depend on SS to survive. If everyone on SS paid in as much and as long as I have the coffers would be overflowing. When you can immigrate to this country at 63 years old and start collecting SS at 65 you can see that the fund is not well managed. It is not a lack of funds. It is poor management by the Federal Government.
So far I'm happy with it. The trans was having an issue of not downshifting immediately to first when stopped. It wasn't much of an issue except when briefly stopping at a stop sign, it would stay in 2nd gear. I took it to a dealer and they reflashed some sort of powertrain control module (had a TSB) and it fixed the problem.
I was hoping I could hold on to the Suburban until a diesel version of a full-size SUV was available (besides Mercedes), but I couldn't stand it anymore. The Expedition has a level of refinement that is missing in the Tahoe/Suburban. If I could only put Toyota's or Nissan's v8 under the hood it would be perfect.
this is one of the reasons that the us auto companies are failing. if the govt is giving an handout to bailout auto companies, it should require executives to give up outrageous salaries, severance packages, and benefits first. This would make negotiation with the UAW easier.
Our friend that works for SSI is in the position to grant these monies. She told us that a Phillipine citizen can bring their parents into the states and shortly thereafter they will qualify for SSI (Social Security Income)
I may have to lump this goofy mistake in with the one of giving illegal immigrants free health care in states like Arizona, California, Texas
Which addresses Rocky's wanting universal health care. ANYONE can walk into ER and get taken care of if sick or wounded whatever. That includes prenatal health care for any woman that does not have insurance. When they say that 50 are uninsured that does not mean they cannot get medical attention.
Hey, gagrice, has anyone is San Diego ever told you the one about this land (CA, AZ, CO, NM, NV, TX)
Also parts of Oregon and Washington. Most voted to secede from Mexico. I know CA did.
Poor Detroit carmaking management and a rapist's UAW Union are to blame. Since I can't tell who's more to blame I'll split it up 50-50.
Even if you blame 75% on management it still leaves plenty of blame on the greed of the UAW. The outrageous CEO packages are a fact of life. If some one in the UAW wants more they need to apply themselves to more education and work up the corporate ladder. Most CEOs did not start near the top unless Daddy owned the company.
One night I mentioned this insane jealousy thing going on with CEO salaries vs. Joe SixPack salaries. His response: "You can't even compare them, they're like comparing apples to oranges."
Dad felt like you're wasting your time complaining about CEO salaries, like gagrice said, are you bettering yourself to try and "climb the corporate ladder?" Are you taking extra schooling or training to "get ahead?"
Now, where I see your'all's point is measuring productivity, something The Boeing Company talked about, yet never tried to measure. It would have made the Union-card carrying Boeing managers have to try and evaluate someone's productivity. And that would mean work, something they don't all do very well. One meeting, in an adjoining Engineering building for these types of programs and issues at Boeing(in about the mid-90's)I raised my hand and asked a question to the tune of something like this:
"I was just wondering, Boeing talks about "measuring productivity", humm...this might work towards getting the work out faster, maybe even with less errors, but how about a program of keeping track of this productivity? Does Boeing have a new program where this information will be tracked and employees will be tracked to see how much they produce, and so on?"
Silence. She gave me a big smile(if she had a chocolate chip cookie she could've handed it to me at just that point and it would've been a wonderful photo opportunity)and just stated..."No, we don't have anything in place to track and reward individual productivity, but I'll take that back to the office with me and discuss it," etc., etc.
Yeah, right. So there ya go. Boeing is all about politics. They wouldn't know a good, productive worker if it came right out of Puget Sound and smacked them square in the face.
But back to the CEO salary issue. I agree they're paid too much. But why worry about it when it's totally out of your control? Can you do anything about it? One iota at-tall about it at your company? Or at Boeing? Or at GM? Let us know how's that's workin' out for ya, OK?
Dad and I discussed this and the point was mentioned that a CEO makes way, way more money than Joe SixPack, but he also has a lot more pressure on him. Or responsibility. Some get it done. Speaking of former Boeing CEO's straying to other companies, Mr.Alan Mullally was pretty successful at Boeing. And at Ford his task is rather huge, to turn Fo-Mo-Co around. It appears the Ford Titanic luxury liner is starting to turn hard to port. Man, it sure is taking that huge liner a long time to actually show those impatient deckhands and SOS dictograph men and Captain Smith and Co. progress, and...is that liner actually turning?
Anyway, at GM it appears that their CEO's have raked in huge salaries and bonuses, and have been and still are on the hot seat from everyone who is looking in to show more progress. Before having the right to take all of that money in. If you think Ford and the Titanic are an allegory, what would we call GM's fairy-tale allegory story? Put your strong thinking caps on now!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Where have I heard this before? :P
For the benefit of new people stumbling in here, like, say, Ron Gettelfinger, please try to make your points relevant to the union. Thanks.
BTW, tedebear, congrats on your new Boeing job! You're far enough away from Seattle and Boeing's headquarters in Chicago to feel those office politics too strongly, so you should make out OK working for them.
OK, steve, here's a UAW question for the U.S. masses...or maybe just one of the regulars in here. Does any UAW-represented job in America count up job packages you turn in? Or doors on a car you hang? Ya know, I never thought that much about it, but, while working for Boeing that might have been enough to kill my idea. That being one of accountability, watching the quality of your engineering work because it really matters to your own success as well as that of the Boeing Company's(insert Fo-Mo-Co or GM or Chrysler in here as well)? Now I know why I was laid off twice in 20 years!
I actually had an engineer tell me to slow down because I was making everyone look bad, only he wasn't in my engineering group. :surprise: This was as he was making a contorted pose in his office chair that I won't entertain in this forum. :sick:
Boeing was a zoo to work in, believe me when I say it. It really, really was. :shades:
If anyone can answer my UAW question, though, please have at it, only we've discussed this before and the socialist's profession is the pat answer here. Starbuck's coffee, raspberry jelly donuts, talk about NFL football till you're blue in the face, and don't make your union "brother" or "sister" look bad by actually working hard for a living. Same pay for everyone no matter what or where.
I am so glad to be in the SW desert working in health care and outta that Boeing factory.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I know, I know, but some of y'all insist on featherbedding the discussion. I think Bob only got part of the memo. :P
You know what it says on the front page of the UAW "welcome to the union handout"?
"If at first you don’t succeed, try management."
(biglabor.com)
Why should a college graduate holding a clipboard, bringing their boss coffee, be more valuable than the UAW worker on the line ??? The UAW, worker is producing something for the company the college graduate is making coffee for his boss. Look at GM, and all the fat and layers of management. Ask anyone who has worked for one of these companies, and ask how little responsibility many of the McDegree, folks have on a day to day basis. My family are friends with retired executives from both GM and GE, and the truth well came out about how the business is ran in the ivory towers !!!
-Rocky
iluv,
The difference is if the CEO, fails he gets a golden parachute and if Joe Six-Pack, fails he gets a pink slip with nothing but the shirt on his back. Yeah, we can say the CEO, has a lot of pressure but regardless if he succeeds or fails he's set for life either way. He won't have to worry about feeding his family, or finding another job, social security, out-sourcing, retraining, that Joe-Six-Pack, well will have to worry himself and likely will get a ulcer.
Rocky
What is your point? That has not changed anywhere on this planet in the last 4000 years. You forget that joesixpack was a slave 150 year ago. He has a long way to go. And that is not just black men. There were white indentured servants at the beginning of this country. It was still horrible 75 years ago when the UAW got its start. Well the UAW had a good run now the pendulum is swinging back. You are stuck in the 1960s and they are not coming back.
Well gagrice, that doesn't mean I need to blow out my torch and is why I got involved part-time with a activist group. Like the UAW, we collectively will have our voice heard. I was tired, sore, at times bored, and got wet trying to get people registered to vote especially young people. I got a lot of praise from people at the gas station doing what I was doing. I talked about the issues when asked but didn't go out of my way to offend people who lean towards the right. I signed up one independent that was leaning torwards Obama. I had one lady that was mad at Obama, for not picking Hillary, and said she was likely going to vote for McCain/Palin, but said she would of voted for Obama, if he picked Hillary. I told her Michael Goodwin, predicts Biden, will drop off the ticket because of the Palin, phenomenon due to personal reasons and Hillary Rodham Clinton, would be the new Vice President. It sounds like a pie in the sky scenario, but this is politics and if Hillary, were to come on board it would be the biggest, most popular, topic the world has ever seen. Palin, would be yesterday's news !!!!
Here some articles I want ya'll to read .......
GM hears plan to keep Wis. plant open
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080913/BUSINESS07/809130309/10- 02/BUSINESS
Delphi to exit bankruptcy by 2009
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080913/BUSINESS01/809130314/10- 02/BUSINESS
Chrysler to roll out new buyout plans
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080913/BUSINESS01/809130312/10- 02/BUSINESS
62' it looks like all of the Big 3 will have it's senior workforce out the doors before long. Your brother, right ????.....will be leaving GM by next year correct ???
"The Rock"
Hey, anyone want to try and cook up some kind of a response to my question in one of my above posts? As in, does anyone with UAW job experience know and feel free to share how your management keeps track of your work? Like, how many widgets you produce every day, how well your work holds up, etc. And then, if your management is diligent enough to do just those things, do they give you raises based on that information they gather? Read on for more revealing fun on this subject.
I know, it sounds so simple and elementary, yet, at the unionized Boeing job I held for twenty years in Everett, WA, building 747's and 767's, (SPEEA union represented)Boeing managers would rely on their leads for that information. Even if you produce more drawings than normal, and little or no rework comes back from the System Engineering groups on it, your work is more or less "Ho-Hummed" by management. I have never worked anyplace like that, everything is so arbitrary it gives you a kind of spacey feeling. Like "Was I there today?" "Does my work count?" "I did take a good, hot shower before work this morning and put on deodorant, didn't I?" I think Boeing management was running so scared from the Airbus threat and their CEO were so busy flirting and having affairs(true stuff here, yep)that no one knew which end of the aircraft part was up and how to slap it together with the correct assembly. No kidding. Obviously there's a lot of smart, intelligent workers at Boeing, yes. But the place is a zoo disguised as an aircraft plant.
Any UAW experienced people out there who want to shout out some inner workings of your workplace and how ridiculous places are managed? Really it was a good paying, good beneees kinda job, but it was managed so hardy-hardly I can't believe our drawings helped those jets get slapped together...and then helped them take off into the air and ran efficiently. Can't y'all tell I loved my unionized Boeing job to the hilt?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Unionized jobs many times breed discontent in those that are truly conscientious. My contempt was usually aimed at management. In 46 years in telecommunications, all Union, I only had 3 supervisors that I respected. I probably worked for 50 different men and women in that span of time. I had a supervisor from 1964 to 1970 that truly knew the job and was not fooled by anyone under his supervision. He could do every job in the office and would examine each employees work from time to time and gave honest accurate evaluations. No one since was close to him. I had a 2nd level manager in Alaska with RCA that was very good also. No nonsense and extremely fair to everyone under him. He was able to spot the losers, document their failures and get them going in the right direction. One lady supervisor that I worked for a short time was also knowledgeable and fair with all those under her. The dozens that would come and go over the rest of my career were worthless know nothing worthless employees. Most I got along with fine. Just did not know their job or really apply themselves to make the company better.
I also worked with good Union techs and lousy techs. One of the few that I ever remember being fired was in Alaska. He was selling drugs, carried a 9mm to work and ran a prostitute business in his motor home parked in the RCA parking lot. The only reason he was fired is a warrant from San Francisco came through for his arrest. I cannot imagine a Non-Union company putting up with some of the incompetence displayed by many Union people I have worked with. All technicians are not created equal, just as I am sure all UAW workers are not equal.
The responsibility to maintain a quality workforce lies with management. If the Union has too much power it can be very difficult to weed out the poor workers.
If the Union has too much power it can be very difficult to weed out the poor workers...."...that is my point to rocky, who never met a union employee that wasn't a five star worker...because unions cannot weed out deadwood, they often hurt the company and the morale of good workers...as stated earlier, it took 2 years of grievances and appeals before a UAW worker was shown the door, whether for incompetence, drunk, absenteeism, sabotage or whatever...rocky wants the union to protect the worthless and has no comprehension how that damages the product...that is why his ongoing rah-rah is doomed to fail, because companies will now do anything they can to avoid the union that he is incapable of finding fault with, and that is one way how we become de-industrialized, by people like rocky who can't see what unions have done, as it is all he knows and how no perception about how normal businesses run, where bad workers are eliminated in under a day...sorry, rock, you simply are too young to understand anything about what goes on in normal, nonunion businesses...
Good luck on the job search...and, unlike you, I believe that regardless of the INTELLIGENCE of the average person, I believe they have the RIGHT to determine their lives and health care, whereas you want a bureaucrat to decide...if we were to use your theory, then half of the Democrats would be ineligible to vote, cuz they sure aren;t smart enough to decide who THEY want to vote for...
Leadership comes from the top. We consider ourselves innovative people working for a customer. Hence, my experience has been great in the aerospace industry or at least in the concern I have worked in for the past 26 years. The company tends to hire and nurture the best talent out there. Opportunity is there for all to move up. We all know the president, vice president, and other high level management and respect everyone as a professional. In the research and development environment we all know our role and what is expected of us. I have had the good fortune to work with a group of some of the most talented people. Together we have done some of the most amazing thing. Then we, as employees, never ever forget the customer, the soldiers out there in harms way.
At one time I had my suspicions about management and their motives. So I set forth to fight off that evil. Elected into union office, I went forth to make a difference and morph the future of the UAW represented employees. Only to find these folks in management/labor relations/human resources always went beyond expectations and treated people fairly. Sometimes, they would say no, however, they really meant, give us justification and or good reasoning. They really made me look good as a union representative. Little did they know that I liked dealing with labor relations on a personal level. Its like I saw the big picture. Only to figure out that its was just a small piece of the big puzzle.
Soon, I was disillusioned in my original motives and sought other avenues of service. Even then the company has been more than expected of an asset. The company and I have the same core values. Their concern and support about other things, other than the business, shows they are indeed the employer of choice. I'm now very active in community service and am spreading myself thin. Together we get allot done, much more than I could have ever imagined.
One of the things that I have noticed over the years is that in any large organization only 10% of the people are active/passionate. However, this is not the case at work. As if some special exception to the rule applies. I wish I had words to explain or knew what it is we have going here.
Sorry, I don't have the negative experience many here have. But then I always look beyond the superficial and or the obvious. I know there is malice and wicked motives somewhere out there, which need to be defeated.
There are two American auto industries, one generally thriving and the other drastically shrinking.
In all this lies a tale of hubris, missed opportunities, disastrous decisions and flawed leadership of almost bibilical proportions.
Japan's car companies...gained a competitive advantage largely by forging an alliance with American workers.
Detroit...has remained mired in mutual mistrust with the United Auto Workers union.
The result of this burden... has been catastrophic....Detroit lacks a diversified source of profits...i.e. small cars, midsize sedans, etc.
In June 2000, GM's confident new CEO, Rick Wagoner, invited journalists to a resort in Italy's Alpine lakes to describe a future of "fewer cars, more trucks". Ford's CEO...upgraded the decor on the corporate jets....while the Ford Taurus was falling further behind the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
Not...long ago...Ford dispatched a team of welding experts to a factory to explore efficiency moves. The plant's union leaders, fearing layoffs...refused to meet with the team....when everything is a negotiation, many things don't get done.
To thrive...Detroit will ahve to use the brains of its workers...and the UAW will have to allow it.
The article's premise is that bad labor relations combined with extremely poor management to led us to where we are today. It will be hard for GM to raise enough money to survive without bankruptcy or government bailout; Ford is in a bit better cash position with more options. They also feel the potential GM/Chrysler merger would be likely a disaster. The article talks about how a recent machine failure in one of the Honda plants had a bunch of workers come up with a novel quick-fix solution, and only 150 cars were lost on the schedule - no union squabbling, arguments about who could fix the machine, etc. Even if the Detroit 3 (or two or one) survive, the article feels that ultimately the labor relations have to be as productive as with the Japanese transplants, or it's going to be just a matter of time.
And that's why the now closed UAW thread was so important to the auto industry, and why many of the apparent conversations that drifted off the main topic were still really on the topic!
So sad.
This looks like a free link to the story or try a headline search (How Detroit Drove Into a Ditch ).
" Were all a sum total of our life experiences. You certainly have had bad experiences with union represented people. However, there are exceptions and to judge everyone by your experiences is just throwing the baby out with the bath water. Some of us look for the negative/flaws in everything. That is not a bad thing, but rather an opportunity for changing things.You can't really believe that all union people are worthless. Or that all Democrats are ignorant. It stands to reason there are many still in the dark in both union and non-union as there are in every political party. Mutually exclusive statements only serve to create stereotyping, which are anything but scientific, and only moves mankind back into the dark ages."
Good post sir. Still it is sad that we must hope and pray for a GM /Chrysler merger so they will be "too big to fail ". If so they, the uh big.. three may survive. Except Ford who had better cut a deal asap. Posturing is over. It's the 11th hour and it's time for let's make a deal. UAW concede or else. Global economics is a cruel taskmaster.
link title
If the UAW would take another wage cut and cut the benefits they're wanting US to pay for, that would be different. I just saw a FoxNews interview with a Union person not wanting to lower anything--just give them the money.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Probably, yes. Will it change anything? Only if there are huge strings attached. IOW, Government would oversee the auto industry. Which begs another question: What does anyone in Washington know about restructuring and building a new industry?
When you re-engineer something, you get rid of the old process. That includes management and most of the current model line-up and dealer networks.
At the end of the day, I fear the money will be a short-lived approach. Let's see what happens because things are moving very fast.
Regards,
OW
Let's see...$50 billion now or if they file bankruptcy the government says it could cost taxpayers over $100 billion to pay for the guaranteed pensions. Which way do you want it?
Today I became officially laid off my UAW job with Chrysler, where I'd been for 25 years. I am working at a new job in my same field, where I've been for 8 weeks. I'd been on vacation from Chrysler for several weeks and was working two 8 hour per day jobs for over a month. Excellent dual income but I wouldn't want to do it forever.
I'm already finding these anti union tirades easier to tolerate than I would have 6 months ago. If the Big Three go under it will be too late when some of these union bashers realize just how much decent paying union jobs stimulated the overall economy.
I will find out Nov. 12 what Chrysler and the UAW have negotiated as far as early retirement and buyout packages are concerned. I'm expecting a substantial offer from some of the rumors I've heard.
My guess you are one of the smart ones that hustled out to get a job when you saw the handwriting on the wall. Those left will be wailing in a few weeks about their loss of lifestyle. Then we knew you were a go getter because you ride a bike a LONG ways to work. That to me took dedication. Something that I imagine carried over to the workplace. A good paying job is a two way street. The worker makes big bucks and the company has to make big bucks to pay the worker. I believe many UAW workers were not concerned with their company making money.
Let's see...$50 billion now or if they file bankruptcy the government says it could cost taxpayers over $100 billion to pay for the guaranteed pensions. Which way do you want it?
Here is my take on the bailout. If it happens and I am not sure it fits the criteria of the bailout bill. We give the Big 3 all that money. They keep the UAW happy for a few months until that runs out. Then we get stuck with the bankruptcy coverage of the retirees. GM especially needs a plan. Not just the Volt that may never be built here. I don't believe they have the will to make the changes without filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
it will be too late when some of these union bashers realize just how much decent paying union jobs stimulated the overall economy.
No doubt in my mind high paying Union jobs keep the wages and benefits in any given trade at a higher level. When it gets a bit tight companies will try to beat the Union down. The technicians left at my company have lost benefits since I retired. They are acting like they could do better without the Union. They have no idea what they are considering. Kids today are stupid and idealistic, you cannot tell them anything. Management will work them against each other and wipe out what we fought 37 years to attain.
Good luck in that new career. Hope it all works out with your UAW retirement. A bird in the hand is a good thing.
i thought most of this $$$ was going towards some other things, as far as the union goes - seems the union is the true backbone to protecting and guiding(aide) workers - alot supposedly gets done that we don't hear about(good things) and not necessarily locally. i thought most any union could assist almost any company workers in building their own union although miracles do not always happen just overnight, god bless ‡
Well I would like you to define what overpaid means ??? You know darn well Keith, what those folks in the GM, plants are really getting with this two-tier wage system. If Uncle Sam, doesn't save these three large corporations because certain members many of which were recently voted for back in office support unfree-trade then just what in the heck are these folks suppose to do. I hear so many folks gripe and complain about how great these people have yet they themselves thought they were to good to go work in a car factory back in the day !!! I wish my generation had the opportunity of yours to make a good living making cars or car parts !!! GM, agreed to the define pension plan and invested plenty of money at the right times back a few years ago when the stock-market was booming to pay for retiree healthcare costs !!! It amazes me just how uneducated Faux News, is on the subject and they showed their right-winged biased all morning on "Faux and Friends" enough to make me puke everytime I hear them say "fair and balanced" CNBC, had Michigan's Govenor Jennifer Granholm, whom I admire a lot because she has tried harder than anyone to close down free trade and support the automobile industry and labor unions !!! If we can throw $85 billion so far at AIG, we can sure loan GM, the money !!! I can guarantee you one damn thing and that is Barack Obama, will fix this economy !!!! It will take him two-terms to rid ourselves of failed Bush Economics, but I have confidence that this community organizer ya'll love to hate will succeed at being a successful president !!! He has top people around him for advisors including some republicans !!!
If the UAW would take another wage cut and cut the benefits they're wanting US to pay for, that would be different. I just saw a FoxNews interview with a Union person not wanting to lower anything--just give them the money.
Are you still mad about the election as to why you would say something like this ??? You know from several posting from me and others that a entry level job at the car plants is $14 an/hr. and ask what will that get you in Dayton, Ohio ??? A Chevy Aveo and a efficiency apartment ???? That would be like me saying school teachers are over-paid, right ??? Your spouse is a school teacher, right ??? Many on the right think they should have their wages slashed as well something I don't support !!! You rail on the UAW, but did not say anything regarding the compensation or golden parachutes these executives have in place. If anything the government should put a statue of limitations on executive compensation packages !!! Don't tell me you wouldn't attract the best and brightest because you've seen just what kind of talent Detriot's Big 3 has attracted with their recent launches they've released !!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Have a great day imidazol97 !!!
-Rocky