I just purchased an Olds Silhouette and the paint finish seems to be much better these days than in years past. With the new clearcoat technology and the robot application of paint, I hardly see any "orange peel" in the finish. The only issue I have is that the top of the vehicle seems to have something on it that makes it slightly rough. Perhaps undercoating overspray or something along those lines. I noticed this after I waxed the vehicle with Mother's Carnuba Wax. I have not taken it back to the dealer yet to look at this. After reading many of your posts, I am considering correcting this myself. I think a hand polishing with glaze and another waxing should do the trick.
The "roughness" on your paint finish is most likely paint contamination such as rail dust, brake dust, industrial fallout, tree sap, paint overspray..etc. A hand polishing with a glaze will not remove this contamination. The best thing to do is to use a quality "clay-like" cleaning product which will remove these impurities from your paint finish. There are many posts in this discussion that touch base on using a "clay-like" cleaning product to truly cleanse your paint finish.
erazer is right - only the clay will take off the particles or contaminants causing the roughness - glazing will only polish the parts in between, unless you really grind down your new paint (I doubt you want this). And, if you take it to the dealer for fixing, this is probably what they would do. Try some clay on a small part first. If it gets smooth, then this is your best bet. The caly is available from many sources and auto parts and paint stores, including Erazer.
I would use a Dawn solution first to remove your new wax (sorry,) then clay with lubricant, then re-wax. You will know immediately if this was the fix. If not, no harm.
Took my 2 week old BLACK VW Passat into the dealer for some service and they washed the car. This left fine scratches all over the car. Need advice on what Dealer or I should use to rectify this. When the car was delivered the car was first waxed. Are these scratches in the wax ? or the clearcoat? Should the car be 1)washed then 2)clayed 3)polished or glazed and then 4)rewaxed Suggestions on sequence and products to use. I am fuming mad.
Took my 2 week old BLACK VW Passat into the dealer for some service and they washed the car. This left fine scratches all over the car. Need advice on what Dealer or I should use to rectify this. When the car was delivered the car was first waxed. Are these scratches in the wax ? or the clearcoat? Should the car be 1)washed then 2)clayed 3)polished or glazed and then 4)rewaxed Suggestions on sequence and products to use. I am fuming mad.
Most likely, the fine scratches were there (in the clearcoat) when you took possesion of the vehicle. If the vehicle had wax on it when you took it to the dealer for service, most likely what happened was that when it was washed, the wax was removed, thus exposing the scratches. Mose dealers don't use a very good wax, and they throw a "quick and cheap" wax on the paint just to make it look good until you get of the lot. The wax was probably filling in those tiny scratches in the clearcoat. As for a cleaning process, first wash the vehicle, then do a "clay cleaning" using a quality "clay-like" cleaning bar, next use a polish/glaze/sealant/wax.
Thank you "erazer" and "newwestd" for your responses. I think the rail dust explaination is probably accurate as I believe GM ships their minivans to NJ via rail from GA where they're built. I'm surprised that they do not shrink wrap the top surfaces like others when shipping. This would save everyone a whole lot of time and trouble (too sensible I guess). I'll try the clay since I've been wanting to use it on my GMC Jimmy anyway. I hope I can do it before it gets too cold out. So far, we've been blessed with mild weather in the northeat.
After reviewing some posts in this forum. I decided to try Nu Finish on my vehicle. I had always used a Carnuba Wax from various manufacturers. The Nu Finish on my new Odyssey shines as well as any Carnuba product I have used and seems to deflect dirt and grime better. The product did not leave any white residue during application and removal and was the easiest product to wipe off that I have ever used. I have washed the van 6 times since application of the Nu Finish and it beads as well as when first applied. I intend to put another coat on as soon as weather permits up here in Northern Ohio. From information I have gathered in this forum, additional applications of a polymer product do not remove the previous application as is the case with true wax products.
I am surprised that the wax manufactureres haven't come up with a better applicator than the little round sponges/pads. My fingers are getting sore. What I'd really like is for someone to design something more like the human hand (oval at the finger tips and then stops at wrist) about 4-5" in diameter. Put a strap across the back with something like a mouse pad as a support back. Make it either cleanable or inexpensive. Something like this would certainly allow a more even pressure to be used across the palm of the hand versus just the finger tips. Or even just a round sponge with a knob on top to help grip the sponge better.
Normally I would not comment in this topic, so I'll just say you should access the Zaino topic in this forum (waxes and polishes) because there are a number of products which address your specific needs.
By the way, what your dealer put on the car (to enlarge on 'erazer's' point) was probably 'hand glaze' which is a combination of wax and mineral oil. The oil filled the fine scratches. The problem with that approach, as you now know, is that the oil 'filler' washes away quickly. Washing with Dawn and claying is a preliminary must for any approach. But remember, too much Dawn is NOT really good for your clearcoat. Just use it rarely to remove any applied wax. After that, all I'll say here is: Z5.
After a little thought here is a trick you can use if you don't like the little round pads/sponges. Get some play-do and form a ball about the size of the palm of your hand. If dry add a little water. Put in plastic (food wrap works well). Then take a clean towel or polishing cloth/diaper and place the clay in the center (if your wax calls for a damp cloth wet it first). Close the ends around the ball of clay and twist tightly (make sure the bottom is smooth and the tighter the better). Use a twist tie or rubber band to help hold the twist tight. Flatten out the clay slightly to form a pad that will be about the size of your hand. This will give you a nice size pad that will conform to the body of the car and be much easier to grip and control the application pressure. May want to make up several in case you drop one or need a clean one.
Let me add these thoughts - you'd have to be very careful not to let the twist tie, if you use it, contact the car's finish to prevent scratches.
It is also a good idea to try to use towels or diapers that are 100% cotton made in USA. As I understand it, this country's regulations are more stringent than others in ensuring that claim is legitimate.
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
just found that a soft cloth from one web site works great, i got a new black car from the dealer and told him not to wash it, then broght it home and used some p21s car wash, using a cotton wash mitt, and then polished with hd cleanse and then zymol vintage wax, man this stuff was great, no scratches at all and it was totally due to the cloths, i used about 25 of them and they were all very soft, look at http://autosupermart.com/ for the cloths and the wash mitt.
I use GM cleaner/wax on my GM vehicles and it works great. Easy on, easy off and beads as well 3 month's later as when first applied. Vehicles still shine like new. I don't know who makes it but I like it and it cost less than $10.00. I suspect that Meguiers makes it because the bottle is exactly like the one the Meguiers gold class wax comes in but it doesn't smell the same as the gold class. I don't have the time to spend hours waxing so I want something that is easy to use.
I just picked up my new black Lexus last week. My salesman told me it would not need to be waxed for at least 6 months-1 year, but then he stated that it did not have a clear coat applied because it was black, and scratches in a clear coat would be more noticeable on a black car than other colors. I was planning on waxing it in the first 3 months anyway, but I was curious about his comments on the lack of a clear coat on black cars. He stated that many of today's car manufacturers do not apply a clear coat to black or dark colored paints. Can anyone shed some light on this question?
I have heard that before about a black Lexus GS (300, I think). You may want to Search (feature at left) for topics on various Lexus models in our Sedans conference to find other recent purchasers of your model.
I don't know whether what he told you about "many" manufacturers is true, though, perhaps someone else here knows.
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
If the Black is metallic it has a clear coat. If it is a solid (non-metallic)color it does not. Meanwhile, do not wait for stains and microscratches to build up on your car.
Black can be incredible looking if cared for properly, but it will take a lot of steady work. Do the whole treatment yourself including clay and glaze and a good wax or polymer finish right away, or take it to a good detailer. If you care for it, PLEASE do not take it to any kind of car wash. Even if it is brushless, the super-strong detergent will strip your wax.
I noticed in earlier posts that the majority of the posts praise routine use of clay. Anyone care to take issue with the following, which was takes from the www.carcareonline.com website?
================================ CLAY: Literally a plasticene/abrasive mixture used to smooth new paint and remove over spray. This type of product must be used with lots of lubricant. The technique of using a clay is a learned skill. Use too little lubricant, or get contaminants in the clay, and you have moved into scratch city. This is one product that is the fast lane to trouble if not used with extreme care. I do not recommend this product as a general paint cleaner. You literally grind off a layer of paint. Should be used as was intended, to remove paint over spray
There are abrasive and non-abrasive clays. One brand, Clay Magic, makes a blue bar (non-abrasive) and a red bar (abrasive). A non-abrasive clay will not "grind off a layer of paint".
Erazer makes a non-abrasive clay-like substance, and its website has a lot of good information on what the use of clay does for the car surface. Zaino also makes a non-abrasive clay, now.
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Only the black GS300s do NOT have clear coat. You should go to work immediately on your paint to protect it - it is neither necessary nor desirable to wait anytime at all!
Hopefully the dealer hasn't scratched the paint already. Ask your dealer if they put anything on the paint (so you know how to remove it if you decide to use a different wax or polymer polish). My Lexus dealer told me that they only wash the cars when they are delivered.
My neighbor just bought a new black Mercedes E320 - it was clear coated. It shows a lot of swirl marks already from the dealer washing or waxing it. Clear coat probably does show more swirls over black (I imagine you see both the swirl in the clear coat and the reflection of it on the black paint).
This line is from the original post in this topic:
<< There is a topic on waxes that is mostly discussions about products, like Zaino, that require many hours of works and several costs,with waits between each coat. I am sure that those kind of waxes have their place, but not everyone is a detailer. >>
I just applied Zaino to my 99 300M. Took less than an hour to apply Z1 and Z2, and since it was below 50 degrees outside, I let it dry for 3 hours. Took about 15 minutes to get it off. The car shines like a jewel with just this ONE coat. Further down in the original post is this comment, which was echoed in later posts:
<< The only downside is if you get some on black trim, it is hard to remove. >
The Zaino came right off...no white marks on the black trim. Sure, you get the posts about multiple coats making it shine more, but ONE coat does great, and you don't have to wait for Z1 to dry, nor do you remove it before applying Z2. just put both on and and let it dry.
I have honestly never used a wax that required less effort for such amazing results. Z1 andnZ2 cost a total of $18. It's well worth the money and hands down is easier to use and produces a better shine than any of the waxes mentioned in this thread.
Sorry to "pollute" the board with a Zaino post, but if you all are avoiding Zaino because you perceive it to be difficult to apply, you are missing out.
I believe that even your black Lexus has a clear coat. Please check with Lexus - not your dealer. Again, I'm not sure, but there is good reason to question your salesman's statement. Aside from the fact that 99.9% of car salemen lie about everything they can, there are only a few paint manufacturers who make paint for cars today. And all of them (to my limited knowledge) have finishing systems which require clear paint overcoat.
I don't really think you are polluting the board. I just wish Sal would accept credit card orders on his web site. I mean, why do we have to send a check? Sal needs to get with the 90's (oops, 00's) and create a real e-commerce site that takes credit cards, ships your order the same day, etc.
Please, do us all a favor and don't mention Zaino in this group. Most astute readers are fully aware that there is a group dedicated to Zaino postings. I am so sick of hearing about Zaino. This is a good forum. Please don't ruin it.
There is NO group that is dedicated to Zaino postings. If you start one, let me know. Besides, Zaino seems to be a very good product, I certainly don't mind hearing about it.
What burns me is all the group postings all over Edmunds about what people think is a good price or what a great deal they got, etc. There is a group called Smart Shopper for car price topics.
Sorry for the post. I won't mention the name again, but when I looked at the original post, it appeared that the poster felt that "that" product was too difficult to apply, yet I see posts about "Meguires part 1,2,3" and such. "That" product is easy to apply. I also see complaints about getting the white residue off the black trim. "That" product doesn't leave a white residue on plastic. But I guess I posted it because "that" product shines so much better than any store bought brand, and overall, for the 'minimal' protection level, costs about $5 more than a good store bought brand. Anybody who cares about how their car looks (and obviously, they do to be in a topic on wax) really should consider "that" product.
Obviously turtle wax has been around for a long time.Can anyone tell me if "Turtle wax Express shine" is ok to use on a new chevy pickup with red paint and clearcote ??? It`s for sure very easy to apply, and shine like anything else I`ve used in the past.But theres got to be a drawback It`s too easy!!!!!!!!!
The only drawback is that it probably will last until the next wash. I use the same type of quick wax from Meguiar's for bird droppings and in the summer for a little extra protection on the hood, roof, and trunk after washing. Shouldn't be any problem with your paint.
Pj: The folks who regularly use this topic have a right to decide its rules. I'm a proud 'that' product user, but when I read and/or post here, I tend to follow the existing rules. There are so many auto care products on the market today that having only one topic will not allow reviews, advice, and comparisons of all the worthy products. This we all can understand. The "Waxes and Polishes III" topic (#833) is the place for Zaino advice and recommendations. And to the topic regulars: Be a little tolerant, not everyone here is an experienced user. And the simple mentioning of the "Z" word in the course of a normal conversation is not a sin either.
is not sold in a local store does not mean it should not be discussed here. It is a good product. I think Edmund's is getting WAY too many groups to keep track of, the majority of them are about the same thing. Get a life people. If somebody were placing a topic about how to fly fish or something like that, then I agree, it does not belong here. But people don't always scan every topic in Edmund's, and when they run across something of interest, they like to post a comment about it, right then and there... not scour all topics in search of the most "PC" place to post it.
Evidently there are alot of z people.Who cares!!! We want to talk about the many other car care products on the market.Leave us alone ! What`s the matter, can`t find anyone who wants to listen to your raves about the z stuff?? Too bad,we don`t want to here about it either..Why do you think we started a seperate topic ?? It`s to get away from narrow minded one product people.. Where are your manners??? surely z people have manners, don`t they??? Thank you for your efforts to enlighten us on a mail order product that is gaining a noticable following ,but were really not interested .AS OUR TOPIC NAME INDICATES !!!
I for one am sick of reading about it. People who use it must also use Amway and Amsoil. We all know it's the greatest and God's gift to car owners, but lets discuss something else.Wayne.
If post #426 says Clay is bad for your paint finish, how come automobile manufacturers such as: GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota recommend using it to clean the paint finish?
I am posting this response to post #426. I visited the link in the post and read the “tips on clay” and found it to be too general, and misrepresented true facts about “clay”.
As a manufacturer of a “clay-like” cleaning material (Erazer), I would like to set the records straight about “clay” being bad for your paint finish. There are many “clays” on the market today, and yes some can be abrasive to the paint, however, even the most abrasive of “clays” will not remove a layer of paint!
The analogy used in the “car care online tips” is ridiculous! They refer to “clay cleaning” as being like peeling a layer of your skin off to wash your face. “Clay” can clean the paint, like no chemical or compound can, and is the most effective and efficient method to truly clean the paint surface. One reason for some companies that recommend using “rubbing and/or buffing compounds” first before using “clay” is because the profit is more rewarding on the compound. A good quality “clay bar” can clean a minimum of 20 vehicles. It would take 3-6 gallons of buffing compound and many hours of exhaustive labor to clean 20 vehicles. Furthermore, it is proven that buffing will not remove the contaminants like a good quality “clay bar” can.
Post #426 also suggested that if “clay” picks up dirt or contaminants it is going to cause serious scratches. The risk of “clay” scratching your vehicle is no greater than if you are washing your vehicle. If you are washing your vehicle and your rag, mitt, sponge or towel is dropped on the ground, picks up contaminants, and you reuse it, it is going to scratch the vehicle. The color of a “clay bar” is very important, a light color (like the bright yellow color we make) allows you to easily inspect the bar to see what contaminants are present. The car care tips also suggests that “clay” was designed to remove “paint overspray”, therefore it must be strong enough to remove a layer of paint. Paint overspray is not truly bonded to the paint finish like a layer of paint and is more like “paint dust”. Body shops were among the first to suggest that “clay” was the best alternative to removing paint overspray. Instead of clay, body shops were using paint thinner, and wetsanding and buffing the paint finish to remove paint overspray. Because clay is still new to may in the commercial industry, (yes, it is a fact that many body shops, dealers and detailers still have no idea about “clay”) some are still using the old methods.
Today, clay is not only used by body shops, but also used by professional detailers, new and used car dealerships and companies that maintain fleet vehicles. In the recent years, an increase in paint contamination has been a huge problem for automobile manufacturers and those that care for the quality of paint finishes. Rail dust, brake dust, and increased industrial fallout is seriously infecting the quality of the paint finish. Rail dust is actually tiny sharp particles of bare metal. Rail dust is produced from the friction of the rail wheels on the railroad track. Since over 70% of new vehicles are shipped via railroad from the factory, most new vehicles are subjected to rail dust contamination. If you have seen the “plastic covering” on new vehicles, this is one of the methods used to deter rail dust contamination, however: at most only 60% of the vehicle is protected with the plastic, leaving 40% infected with rail dust contamination. In addition, any time a vehicle is traveling and/or parked near a railroad, it can be subjected to rail dust contamination. Brake dust is a problem that is having a major impact in the quality of paint finishes. In previous years, brake pads were made of asbestos materials. Because of the obvious health risks related to asbestos, a new method for making brake pads was developed. Today, all brake pads are “Metallic and/or Semi-Metallic” brake pads. This means that all brake pads today are made from metal particles. Basically, during braking metal on metal friction is occurring and producing metal shavings that adhere and imbed into the paint finish of all vehicles. Rail dust, and brake dust contamination is one of the most serious paint contamination problems today. This contamination is actually tiny, sharp particles of bare metal, and like all bare metal, it rusts and/or corrodes with the slightest bit of moisture. As the rail dust, and brake dust is rusting, it is deteriorating the paint finish and causing serious damage. “Clay” is currently the best method of removing and maintaining this contamination problem. Strongly so, “Clay” is recommended by GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota (just to name a few) to remove surface contamination from the paint finish of automobiles. On new vehicles, some dealers do a “clay cleaning” to every car before the customer takes delivery. Toyota recommends “clay” in the process of reconditioning their certified vehicles. In order for a Toyota vehicle to be a certified used vehicle, the paint finish has to be cleaned using a “clay” cleaning process. So you see, there is a bigger problem out there than that of paint overspray, and that is why “clay” cleaning a vehicle is absolutely necessary to maintain the highest quality of a paint finish.
There are many contaminants (that cannot be removed with normal cleaning methods) that are detrimental to the quality of the paint finish. Since “clay” is not toxic and easy to use, it is now part of the cleaning process for many professionals and consumers. As a “pre wax cleaner” professionals recommend using “clay”. Anytime a wax, polish and/or paint sealant is applied, it is best to do a “clay cleaning” to properly remove contaminants. Wax, polish and/or paint sealant will only cover up the paint contamination problem and that is why the finish may feel smooth after waxing without first doing a “clay cleaning”. There is no form of protection against rail dust, brake dust, and industrial fallout contamination, so the only alternative is to properly maintain the finish using a good quality “clay” during washings and/or every time before you apply wax, polish and/or paint sealant.
To reiterate, some “clays” are abrasive, and some are not (such as Erazer). Those that are not abrasive, use a friction technology like that of a “squeegee”. As the “clay” is rubbed across the paint finish, the contaminants are pulled from the paint and are suspended into the “clay”. As the “clay” is pulled stretched and refolded to expose a new clean side, the contaminants will not resurface to cause problems. As pressure is applied to the “clay” during the cleaning process, the “clay” makes contact with the paint finish, and the contaminants are sinking further into the “clay”.
I hope that I have been helpful and offered more understanding of the “clay cleaning process” and it’s benefits. Please feel free to visit our website located at www.erazer.com for additional information, and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at any time.
Call me old fashioned.I`m not rubbing no bar of clay all over my brand new truck ,no matter what you call it.Sure. I bet those metal slivers just magicaly dissapear into the bar of clay, never to be seen again. Sorry I`ll pass,and no offense !!
Your feelings re the "Z" are correct (see my post #437), but (as even you seem to suggest) could have posted it in a better way. Manners, Manners. Again, not every new user understands the rules, so be nice (the first time). And as a "Z" user, I'll only comment here regarding other products, methods, etc. Like clay.
Erazer is long winded but correct. I too was a bit of a skeptic regarding clay. Until I used it. And I tried Erazer's product. It really did pick up a lot of stuff from a new car. After I had washed it too. And no, it did not damage my paint and/or clear coat in any way. Like any product, you do have to be careful. You do have to use a lot of lubricant or the clay stuff will leave smuge streaks. Fortunately, you can easily wipe out those streaks, but it does require some effort. The trick is: lots of lub and don't press down. Just a very moderate amount of pressure does the trick. And its fairly quick too. It takes less time than say a good wash job. You'll really see the results AFTER you apply your next coat of wax. See, I didn't use that word!
I am a car fanatic, with nearly 40 years of learning meticulous ways to make cars look great and keep them looking like new or better.
Clay if used properly is fantastic, and a darn sight better than a) REALLY grinding off a layer of paint with rubbing compound to get it smooth, or b)leaving the contaminants on your paint to stain and ruin it. You cannot believe how smooth the car can be until it is clayed.
The clay referred to is very soft and smooth, today a friend said it reminds him of "Silly Putty". It is not like pottery clay!
Okay..but I'm just a little bit skeptical. I have been tempted to use this type of product since I first heard about it 5 or 6 years ago...but I do worry about particles caught in the clay being rubbed over my car's finish and causing scratches.
It seems to me you would have to keep a real close eye on the clay to make sure there are no large particles contaminating it, turning it very frequently...or does using the lubricant make this somewhat unecessary?
Erazer states that the risk of scratches using clay is no greater than washing the car...okay--but then seems to compare the risk of claying a car to washing a car with a mitt or sponge that has been dropped on the ground. Not what I want to hear--If I drop my mitt on the ground while washing the car--I discard it immediately and use another one--to avoid scratches.
It seems a lot of people are extremely happy with this type of product--but--how "careful" do you have to be?
I've used clay quite a bit. Did a whole brand new pickup and no scratches. Did my wife's car horizontal surfaces and sides down to the belt line and no scratches. The clay does get dirty and even when I should have gotten a new piece I just kept reusing it. I found when it got dirty the risk is not scratching but you lose the ability to clean the surface. No way have I found the clay to be anyway similar to a dirty wash mit.
I just purchased a new truck off the lot, it happens to be black and of all wonders only had a few little nicks and no swirl marks. I made sure the dealer did not detail it before delivery. The first step on receipt was wash with detergent and clayed, on close inspection after all steps of my procedure I inspected the black paint under fluorescent light and could not detect any swirling or scratching. NOTE:- I made sure to use 100% cotton towels. I too was a little sceptic but am satisfied with the results and the clay is picking up dirt even after a thorough washing.
As for the particles/contaminants that are removed during “claying”, some “clays” are softer than others, such as Erazer. The softness of the “clay” will allow the contaminants that are being removed to sink into the “clay”. Turning, folding, and kneading the "clay" helps to ensure a clean surface at all times, but with the stiffer clays it is not as easy to fold and knead.
My reference to the wash mitt and/or sponge is simply that when dropped on the ground, and reused, it can introduce scratches to the paint finish. The thing of it is, clay is an application that should be performed after the paint finish has been washed. As long as the paint is free from large and/or loose dirt and debris, there should be no problem. If you are planning on doing a “clay” cleaning without first washing the finish, you are just rubbing dirt into the paint. If clay is dropped on the ground and reused, it can also introduce scratches to the paint finish. This is virtually the only way that “clay” will introduce scratches to the paint. Although, that doesn’t cover all clays. As stated previously by myself and others, there are some “clays” that are abrasive and many companies have 2 separate “grades” of clay. Most abrasive clays are used in the professional industry, however some companies private label these products and offer them to the consumer so you have to be sure what you are using. Professionals in the industry and many consumers use Erazer. The one composition of Erazer is aggressive enough to be used in the professional industry, yet not abrasive to the paint finish.
It would seem that if the clay is significantly softer than the paint, that it cannot press on any particles hard enough to scratch the paint. Perhaps that is why there are no scratches. Erazer?
Newwestd, you are correct, as force is applied to the clay, the contaminants that are present, sink further into the clay, and the clay itself is what is making contact with the paint finish. Therefore, you are not introducing new scratches to the paint finish.
Break your clay bars in half that way if you happen to drop it, you can throw it out and still finish the vehicle with the other half. This was a suggestion from Chris Parrish in the "other" topic a long time ago.
Your comments about the "softness" of the clay are what I wanted to know...I was just wondering how this type of product could be pulling small metal particles like rail dust or brake dust out of an automotive finish--and not be making scratches while you are dragging it over the finish
The idea of the particles sinking into the clay so that they don't scratch the finish makes sense to me. I would guess that the lubricant also helps. And I do understand that you have to turn and knead it periodically...and (obviously) you don't want to use it if you drop it on the ground
Your comments about the "softness" of the clay are what I wanted to know...I was just wondering how this type of product could be pulling small metal particles like rail dust or brake dust out of an automotive finish--and not be making scratches while you are dragging it over the finish
The idea of the particles sinking into the clay so that they don't scratch the finish makes sense to me. I would guess that the lubricant also helps. And I do understand that you have to turn and knead it periodically...and (obviously) you don't want to use it if you drop it on the ground
I was also thinking this thing isn't going to work. Then I gave it a try on my mom's old bemmer (89 325). When I finished claying, the car literally "shined" like a brand new, and after the wax, I found the old scratches disappeared or less visible. It's miracle, and we sold it for $8,000 couple months later--great price! If you don't believe it. Here is my suggestion:
First, buy the clay set. 2nd, drive to a deserted parking lot. 3rd, try the clay on a old car--not new, I feel bad for them. At the end, apply wax on the clayed surface and buff after few minutes. Now touch and you will,"ah hhhaaaa". THINK about it, you will only waste $15-20 if you think it doesn't work. If you are kind, maybe you should clay the wohle car and wax it :-) Good Luck, don't get caught
Comments
John
I would use a Dawn solution first to remove your new wax (sorry,) then clay with lubricant, then re-wax. You will know immediately if this was the fix. If not, no harm.
Good luck!
This left fine scratches all over the car. Need advice on what Dealer or I should use to rectify this. When the car was delivered the car was first
waxed. Are these scratches in the wax ? or the clearcoat?
Should the car be 1)washed then 2)clayed
3)polished or glazed and then 4)rewaxed
Suggestions on sequence and products to use.
I am fuming mad.
This left fine scratches all over the car. Need advice on what Dealer or I should use to rectify this. When the car was delivered the car was first
waxed. Are these scratches in the wax ? or the clearcoat?
Should the car be 1)washed then 2)clayed
3)polished or glazed and then 4)rewaxed
Suggestions on sequence and products to use.
I am fuming mad.
By the way, what your dealer put on the car (to enlarge on 'erazer's' point) was probably 'hand glaze' which is a combination of wax and mineral oil. The oil filled the fine scratches. The problem with that approach, as you now know, is that the oil 'filler' washes away quickly. Washing with Dawn and claying is a preliminary must for any approach. But remember, too much Dawn is NOT really good for your clearcoat. Just use it rarely to remove any applied wax. After that, all I'll say here is: Z5.
Let me add these thoughts - you'd have to be very careful not to let the twist tie, if you use it, contact the car's finish to prevent scratches.
It is also a good idea to try to use towels or diapers that are 100% cotton made in USA. As I understand it, this country's regulations are more stringent than others in ensuring that claim is legitimate.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
look at http://autosupermart.com/
for the cloths and the wash mitt.
I was planning on waxing it in the first 3 months anyway, but I was curious about his comments on the lack of a clear coat on black cars. He stated that many of today's car manufacturers do not apply a clear coat to black or dark colored paints. Can anyone shed some light on this question?
I don't know whether what he told you about "many" manufacturers is true, though, perhaps someone else here knows.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Black can be incredible looking if cared for properly, but it will take a lot of steady work. Do the whole treatment yourself including clay and glaze and a good wax or polymer finish right away, or take it to a good detailer. If you care for it, PLEASE do not take it to any kind of car wash. Even if it is brushless, the super-strong detergent will strip your wax.
================================
CLAY: Literally a plasticene/abrasive mixture used to smooth new paint and remove over spray.
This type of product must be used with lots of lubricant. The technique of using a clay is a learned skill. Use too little lubricant, or get contaminants in the clay, and you have moved into scratch city. This is one product that is the fast lane to trouble if not used with extreme care. I do not recommend this product as a general paint cleaner. You literally grind off a layer of paint. Should be used as was intended, to remove paint over spray
Erazer makes a non-abrasive clay-like substance, and its website has a lot of good information on what the use of clay does for the car surface. Zaino also makes a non-abrasive clay, now.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Hopefully the dealer hasn't scratched the paint already. Ask your dealer if they put anything on the paint (so you know how to remove it if you decide to use a different wax or polymer polish). My Lexus dealer told me that they only wash the cars when they are delivered.
My neighbor just bought a new black Mercedes E320 - it was clear coated. It shows a lot of swirl marks already from the dealer washing or waxing it. Clear coat probably does show more swirls over black (I imagine you see both the swirl in the clear coat and the reflection of it on the black paint).
<< There is a topic on waxes that is mostly discussions about products, like Zaino, that require many hours of works and several costs,with waits between each coat. I am sure that those kind of waxes have their place, but not everyone is a detailer. >>
I just applied Zaino to my 99 300M. Took less than an hour to apply Z1 and Z2, and since it was below 50 degrees outside, I let it dry for 3 hours. Took about 15 minutes to get it off. The car shines like a jewel with just this ONE coat. Further down in the original post is this comment, which was echoed in later posts:
<< The only downside is if you get some on black trim, it is hard to remove. >
The Zaino came right off...no white marks on the black trim. Sure, you get the posts about multiple coats making it shine more, but ONE coat does great, and you don't have to wait for Z1 to dry, nor do you remove it before applying Z2. just put both on and and let it dry.
I have honestly never used a wax that required less effort for such amazing results. Z1 andnZ2 cost a total of $18. It's well worth the money and hands down is easier to use and produces a better shine than any of the waxes mentioned in this thread.
Sorry to "pollute" the board with a Zaino post, but if you all are avoiding Zaino because you perceive it to be difficult to apply, you are missing out.
What burns me is all the group postings all over Edmunds about what people think is a good price or what a great deal they got, etc. There is a group called Smart Shopper for car price topics.
It`s too easy!!!!!!!!!
We want to talk about the many other car care products on the market.Leave us alone ! What`s the matter, can`t find anyone who wants to listen to your raves about the z stuff?? Too bad,we don`t want to here about it either..Why do you think we started a seperate topic ?? It`s to get away from narrow minded one product people..
Where are your manners??? surely z people have manners, don`t they??? Thank you for your efforts to enlighten us on a mail order product that is gaining a noticable following ,but were really not interested .AS OUR TOPIC NAME INDICATES !!!
Whew , think I`ve had too much coffee.
I am posting this response to post #426. I visited the link in the post and read the “tips on clay” and found it to be too general, and misrepresented true facts about “clay”.
As a manufacturer of a “clay-like” cleaning material (Erazer), I would like to set the records straight about “clay” being bad for your paint finish. There are many “clays” on the market today, and yes some can be abrasive to the paint, however, even the most abrasive of “clays” will not remove a layer of paint!
The analogy used in the “car care online tips” is ridiculous! They refer to “clay cleaning” as being like peeling a layer of your skin off to wash your face. “Clay” can clean the paint, like no chemical or compound can, and is the most effective and efficient method to truly clean the paint surface. One reason for some companies that recommend using “rubbing and/or buffing compounds” first before using “clay” is because the profit is more rewarding on the compound. A good quality “clay bar” can clean a minimum of 20 vehicles. It would take 3-6 gallons of buffing compound and many hours of exhaustive labor to clean 20 vehicles. Furthermore, it is proven that buffing will not remove the contaminants like a good quality “clay bar” can.
Post #426 also suggested that if “clay” picks up dirt or contaminants it is going to cause serious scratches. The risk of “clay” scratching your vehicle is no greater than if you are washing your vehicle. If you are washing your vehicle and your rag, mitt, sponge or towel is dropped on the ground, picks up contaminants, and you reuse it, it is going to scratch the vehicle. The color of a “clay bar” is very important, a light color (like the bright yellow color we make) allows you to easily inspect the bar to see what contaminants are present. The car care tips also suggests that “clay” was designed to remove “paint overspray”, therefore it must be strong enough to remove a layer of paint. Paint overspray is not truly bonded to the paint finish like a layer of paint and is more like “paint dust”. Body shops were among the first to suggest that “clay” was the best alternative to removing paint overspray. Instead of clay, body shops were using paint thinner, and wetsanding and buffing the paint finish to remove paint overspray. Because clay is still new to may in the commercial industry, (yes, it is a fact that many body shops, dealers and detailers still have no idea about “clay”) some are still using the old methods.
Today, clay is not only used by body shops, but also used by professional detailers, new and used car dealerships and companies that maintain fleet vehicles. In the recent years, an increase in paint contamination has been a huge problem for automobile manufacturers and those that care for the quality of paint finishes. Rail dust, brake dust, and increased industrial fallout is seriously infecting the quality of the paint finish. Rail dust is actually tiny sharp particles of bare metal. Rail dust is produced from the friction of the rail wheels on the railroad track. Since over 70% of new vehicles are shipped via railroad from the factory, most new vehicles are subjected to rail dust contamination. If you have seen the “plastic covering” on new vehicles, this is one of the methods used to deter rail dust contamination, however: at most only 60% of the vehicle is protected with the plastic, leaving 40% infected with rail dust contamination. In addition, any time a vehicle is traveling and/or parked near a railroad, it can be subjected to rail dust contamination. Brake dust is a problem that is having a major impact in the quality of paint finishes. In previous years, brake pads were made of asbestos materials. Because of the obvious health risks related to asbestos, a new method for making brake pads was developed. Today, all brake pads are “Metallic and/or Semi-Metallic” brake pads. This means that all brake pads today are made from metal particles. Basically, during braking metal on metal friction is occurring and producing metal shavings that adhere and imbed into the paint finish of all vehicles. Rail dust, and brake dust contamination is one of the most serious paint contamination problems today. This contamination is actually tiny, sharp particles of bare metal, and like all bare metal, it rusts and/or corrodes with the slightest bit of moisture. As the rail dust, and brake dust is rusting, it is deteriorating the paint finish and causing serious damage. “Clay” is currently the best method of removing and maintaining this contamination problem. Strongly so, “Clay” is recommended by GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota (just to name a few) to remove surface contamination from the paint finish of automobiles. On new vehicles, some dealers do a “clay cleaning” to every car before the customer takes delivery. Toyota recommends “clay” in the process of reconditioning their certified vehicles. In order for a Toyota vehicle to be a certified used vehicle, the paint finish has to be cleaned using a “clay” cleaning process. So you see, there is a bigger problem out there than that of paint overspray, and that is why “clay” cleaning a vehicle is absolutely necessary to maintain the highest quality of a paint finish.
There are many contaminants (that cannot be removed with normal cleaning methods) that are detrimental to the quality of the paint finish. Since “clay” is not toxic and easy to use, it is now part of the cleaning process for many professionals and consumers. As a “pre wax cleaner” professionals recommend using “clay”. Anytime a wax, polish and/or paint sealant is applied, it is best to do a “clay cleaning” to properly remove contaminants. Wax, polish and/or paint sealant will only cover up the paint contamination problem and that is why the finish may feel smooth after waxing without first doing a “clay cleaning”. There is no form of protection against rail dust, brake dust, and industrial fallout contamination, so the only alternative is to properly maintain the finish using a good quality “clay” during washings and/or every time before you apply wax, polish and/or paint sealant.
To reiterate, some “clays” are abrasive, and some are not (such as Erazer). Those that are not abrasive, use a friction technology like that of a “squeegee”. As the “clay” is rubbed across the paint finish, the contaminants are pulled from the paint and are suspended into the “clay”. As the “clay” is pulled stretched and refolded to expose a new clean side, the contaminants will not resurface to cause problems. As pressure is applied to the “clay” during the cleaning process, the “clay” makes contact with the paint finish, and the contaminants are sinking further into the “clay”.
I hope that I have been helpful and offered more understanding of the “clay cleaning process” and it’s benefits. Please feel free to visit our website located at www.erazer.com for additional information, and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at any time.
Thanks,
John
Again, not every new user understands the rules, so be nice (the first time). And as a "Z" user, I'll only comment here regarding other products, methods, etc. Like clay.
Erazer is long winded but correct. I too was a bit of a skeptic regarding clay. Until I used it. And I tried Erazer's product. It really did pick up a lot of stuff from a new car. After I had washed it too. And no, it did not damage my paint and/or clear coat in any way. Like any product, you do have to be careful. You do have to use a lot of lubricant or the clay stuff will leave smuge streaks. Fortunately, you can easily wipe out those streaks, but it does require some effort. The trick is: lots of lub and don't press down. Just a very moderate amount of pressure does the trick. And its fairly quick too. It takes less time than say a good wash job. You'll really see the results AFTER you apply your next coat of wax. See, I didn't use that word!
Clay if used properly is fantastic, and a darn sight better than a) REALLY grinding off a layer of paint with rubbing compound to get it smooth, or b)leaving the contaminants on your paint to stain and ruin it. You cannot believe how smooth the car can be until it is clayed.
The clay referred to is very soft and smooth, today a friend said it reminds him of "Silly Putty". It is not like pottery clay!
To refuse to use clay is to neglect your car.
It seems to me you would have to keep a real close eye on the clay to make sure there are no large particles contaminating it, turning it very frequently...or does using the lubricant make this somewhat unecessary?
Erazer states that the risk of scratches using clay is no greater than washing the car...okay--but then seems to compare the risk of claying a car to washing a car with a mitt or sponge that has been dropped on the ground. Not what I want to hear--If I drop my mitt on the ground while washing the car--I discard it immediately and use another one--to avoid scratches.
It seems a lot of people are extremely happy with this type of product--but--how "careful" do you have to be?
Any replies would be appreciated.
The first step on receipt was wash with detergent and clayed, on close inspection after all steps of my procedure I inspected the black paint under fluorescent light and could not detect any swirling or scratching.
NOTE:- I made sure to use 100% cotton towels.
I too was a little sceptic but am satisfied with the results and the clay is picking up dirt even after a thorough washing.
My reference to the wash mitt and/or sponge is simply that when dropped on the ground, and reused, it can introduce scratches to the paint finish. The thing of it is, clay is an application that should be performed after the paint finish has been washed. As long as the paint is free from large and/or loose dirt and debris, there should be no problem. If you are planning on doing a “clay” cleaning without first washing the finish, you are just rubbing dirt into the paint. If clay is dropped on the ground and reused, it can also introduce scratches to the paint finish. This is virtually the only way that “clay” will introduce scratches to the paint. Although, that doesn’t cover all clays. As stated previously by myself and others, there are some “clays” that are abrasive and many companies have 2 separate “grades” of clay. Most abrasive clays are used in the professional industry, however some companies private label these products and offer them to the consumer so you have to be sure what you are using. Professionals in the industry and many consumers use Erazer. The one composition of Erazer is aggressive enough to be used in the professional industry, yet not abrasive to the paint finish.
Terry
The idea of the particles sinking into the clay so that they don't scratch the finish makes sense to me. I would guess that the lubricant also helps. And I do understand that you have to turn and knead it periodically...and (obviously) you don't want to use it if you drop it on the ground
Sounds like a good product...I'll give it a shot.
Thanks to everyone for your replies.
The idea of the particles sinking into the clay so that they don't scratch the finish makes sense to me. I would guess that the lubricant also helps. And I do understand that you have to turn and knead it periodically...and (obviously) you don't want to use it if you drop it on the ground
Sounds like a good product...I'll give it a shot.
Thanks to everyone for your replies.
First, buy the clay set. 2nd, drive to a deserted parking lot. 3rd, try the clay on a old car--not new, I feel bad for them. At the end, apply wax on the clayed surface and buff after few minutes. Now touch and you will,"ah hhhaaaa". THINK about it, you will only waste $15-20 if you think it doesn't work. If you are kind, maybe you should clay the wohle car and wax it :-) Good Luck, don't get caught