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Comments
John
I would use a Dawn solution first to remove your new wax (sorry,) then clay with lubricant, then re-wax. You will know immediately if this was the fix. If not, no harm.
Good luck!
This left fine scratches all over the car. Need advice on what Dealer or I should use to rectify this. When the car was delivered the car was first
waxed. Are these scratches in the wax ? or the clearcoat?
Should the car be 1)washed then 2)clayed
3)polished or glazed and then 4)rewaxed
Suggestions on sequence and products to use.
I am fuming mad.
This left fine scratches all over the car. Need advice on what Dealer or I should use to rectify this. When the car was delivered the car was first
waxed. Are these scratches in the wax ? or the clearcoat?
Should the car be 1)washed then 2)clayed
3)polished or glazed and then 4)rewaxed
Suggestions on sequence and products to use.
I am fuming mad.
By the way, what your dealer put on the car (to enlarge on 'erazer's' point) was probably 'hand glaze' which is a combination of wax and mineral oil. The oil filled the fine scratches. The problem with that approach, as you now know, is that the oil 'filler' washes away quickly. Washing with Dawn and claying is a preliminary must for any approach. But remember, too much Dawn is NOT really good for your clearcoat. Just use it rarely to remove any applied wax. After that, all I'll say here is: Z5.
Let me add these thoughts - you'd have to be very careful not to let the twist tie, if you use it, contact the car's finish to prevent scratches.
It is also a good idea to try to use towels or diapers that are 100% cotton made in USA. As I understand it, this country's regulations are more stringent than others in ensuring that claim is legitimate.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
look at http://autosupermart.com/
for the cloths and the wash mitt.
I was planning on waxing it in the first 3 months anyway, but I was curious about his comments on the lack of a clear coat on black cars. He stated that many of today's car manufacturers do not apply a clear coat to black or dark colored paints. Can anyone shed some light on this question?
I don't know whether what he told you about "many" manufacturers is true, though, perhaps someone else here knows.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Black can be incredible looking if cared for properly, but it will take a lot of steady work. Do the whole treatment yourself including clay and glaze and a good wax or polymer finish right away, or take it to a good detailer. If you care for it, PLEASE do not take it to any kind of car wash. Even if it is brushless, the super-strong detergent will strip your wax.
================================
CLAY: Literally a plasticene/abrasive mixture used to smooth new paint and remove over spray.
This type of product must be used with lots of lubricant. The technique of using a clay is a learned skill. Use too little lubricant, or get contaminants in the clay, and you have moved into scratch city. This is one product that is the fast lane to trouble if not used with extreme care. I do not recommend this product as a general paint cleaner. You literally grind off a layer of paint. Should be used as was intended, to remove paint over spray
Erazer makes a non-abrasive clay-like substance, and its website has a lot of good information on what the use of clay does for the car surface. Zaino also makes a non-abrasive clay, now.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Hopefully the dealer hasn't scratched the paint already. Ask your dealer if they put anything on the paint (so you know how to remove it if you decide to use a different wax or polymer polish). My Lexus dealer told me that they only wash the cars when they are delivered.
My neighbor just bought a new black Mercedes E320 - it was clear coated. It shows a lot of swirl marks already from the dealer washing or waxing it. Clear coat probably does show more swirls over black (I imagine you see both the swirl in the clear coat and the reflection of it on the black paint).
<< There is a topic on waxes that is mostly discussions about products, like Zaino, that require many hours of works and several costs,with waits between each coat. I am sure that those kind of waxes have their place, but not everyone is a detailer. >>
I just applied Zaino to my 99 300M. Took less than an hour to apply Z1 and Z2, and since it was below 50 degrees outside, I let it dry for 3 hours. Took about 15 minutes to get it off. The car shines like a jewel with just this ONE coat. Further down in the original post is this comment, which was echoed in later posts:
<< The only downside is if you get some on black trim, it is hard to remove. >
The Zaino came right off...no white marks on the black trim. Sure, you get the posts about multiple coats making it shine more, but ONE coat does great, and you don't have to wait for Z1 to dry, nor do you remove it before applying Z2. just put both on and and let it dry.
I have honestly never used a wax that required less effort for such amazing results. Z1 andnZ2 cost a total of $18. It's well worth the money and hands down is easier to use and produces a better shine than any of the waxes mentioned in this thread.
Sorry to "pollute" the board with a Zaino post, but if you all are avoiding Zaino because you perceive it to be difficult to apply, you are missing out.
What burns me is all the group postings all over Edmunds about what people think is a good price or what a great deal they got, etc. There is a group called Smart Shopper for car price topics.
It`s too easy!!!!!!!!!
We want to talk about the many other car care products on the market.Leave us alone ! What`s the matter, can`t find anyone who wants to listen to your raves about the z stuff?? Too bad,we don`t want to here about it either..Why do you think we started a seperate topic ?? It`s to get away from narrow minded one product people..
Where are your manners??? surely z people have manners, don`t they??? Thank you for your efforts to enlighten us on a mail order product that is gaining a noticable following ,but were really not interested .AS OUR TOPIC NAME INDICATES !!!
Whew , think I`ve had too much coffee.
I am posting this response to post #426. I visited the link in the post and read the “tips on clay” and found it to be too general, and misrepresented true facts about “clay”.
As a manufacturer of a “clay-like” cleaning material (Erazer), I would like to set the records straight about “clay” being bad for your paint finish. There are many “clays” on the market today, and yes some can be abrasive to the paint, however, even the most abrasive of “clays” will not remove a layer of paint!
The analogy used in the “car care online tips” is ridiculous! They refer to “clay cleaning” as being like peeling a layer of your skin off to wash your face. “Clay” can clean the paint, like no chemical or compound can, and is the most effective and efficient method to truly clean the paint surface. One reason for some companies that recommend using “rubbing and/or buffing compounds” first before using “clay” is because the profit is more rewarding on the compound. A good quality “clay bar” can clean a minimum of 20 vehicles. It would take 3-6 gallons of buffing compound and many hours of exhaustive labor to clean 20 vehicles. Furthermore, it is proven that buffing will not remove the contaminants like a good quality “clay bar” can.
Post #426 also suggested that if “clay” picks up dirt or contaminants it is going to cause serious scratches. The risk of “clay” scratching your vehicle is no greater than if you are washing your vehicle. If you are washing your vehicle and your rag, mitt, sponge or towel is dropped on the ground, picks up contaminants, and you reuse it, it is going to scratch the vehicle. The color of a “clay bar” is very important, a light color (like the bright yellow color we make) allows you to easily inspect the bar to see what contaminants are present. The car care tips also suggests that “clay” was designed to remove “paint overspray”, therefore it must be strong enough to remove a layer of paint. Paint overspray is not truly bonded to the paint finish like a layer of paint and is more like “paint dust”. Body shops were among the first to suggest that “clay” was the best alternative to removing paint overspray. Instead of clay, body shops were using paint thinner, and wetsanding and buffing the paint finish to remove paint overspray. Because clay is still new to may in the commercial industry, (yes, it is a fact that many body shops, dealers and detailers still have no idea about “clay”) some are still using the old methods.
Today, clay is not only used by body shops, but also used by professional detailers, new and used car dealerships and companies that maintain fleet vehicles. In the recent years, an increase in paint contamination has been a huge problem for automobile manufacturers and those that care for the quality of paint finishes. Rail dust, brake dust, and increased industrial fallout is seriously infecting the quality of the paint finish. Rail dust is actually tiny sharp particles of bare metal. Rail dust is produced from the friction of the rail wheels on the railroad track. Since over 70% of new vehicles are shipped via railroad from the factory, most new vehicles are subjected to rail dust contamination. If you have seen the “plastic covering” on new vehicles, this is one of the methods used to deter rail dust contamination, however: at most only 60% of the vehicle is protected with the plastic, leaving 40% infected with rail dust contamination. In addition, any time a vehicle is traveling and/or parked near a railroad, it can be subjected to rail dust contamination. Brake dust is a problem that is having a major impact in the quality of paint finishes. In previous years, brake pads were made of asbestos materials. Because of the obvious health risks related to asbestos, a new method for making brake pads was developed. Today, all brake pads are “Metallic and/or Semi-Metallic” brake pads. This means that all brake pads today are made from metal particles. Basically, during braking metal on metal friction is occurring and producing metal shavings that adhere and imbed into the paint finish of all vehicles. Rail dust, and brake dust contamination is one of the most serious paint contamination problems today. This contamination is actually tiny, sharp particles of bare metal, and like all bare metal, it rusts and/or corrodes with the slightest bit of moisture. As the rail dust, and brake dust is rusting, it is deteriorating the paint finish and causing serious damage. “Clay” is currently the best method of removing and maintaining this contamination problem. Strongly so, “Clay” is recommended by GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota (just to name a few) to remove surface contamination from the paint finish of automobiles. On new vehicles, some dealers do a “clay cleaning” to every car before the customer takes delivery. Toyota recommends “clay” in the process of reconditioning their certified vehicles. In order for a Toyota vehicle to be a certified used vehicle, the paint finish has to be cleaned using a “clay” cleaning process. So you see, there is a bigger problem out there than that of paint overspray, and that is why “clay” cleaning a vehicle is absolutely necessary to maintain the highest quality of a paint finish.
There are many contaminants (that cannot be removed with normal cleaning methods) that are detrimental to the quality of the paint finish. Since “clay” is not toxic and easy to use, it is now part of the cleaning process for many professionals and consumers. As a “pre wax cleaner” professionals recommend using “clay”. Anytime a wax, polish and/or paint sealant is applied, it is best to do a “clay cleaning” to properly remove contaminants. Wax, polish and/or paint sealant will only cover up the paint contamination problem and that is why the finish may feel smooth after waxing without first doing a “clay cleaning”. There is no form of protection against rail dust, brake dust, and industrial fallout contamination, so the only alternative is to properly maintain the finish using a good quality “clay” during washings and/or every time before you apply wax, polish and/or paint sealant.
To reiterate, some “clays” are abrasive, and some are not (such as Erazer). Those that are not abrasive, use a friction technology like that of a “squeegee”. As the “clay” is rubbed across the paint finish, the contaminants are pulled from the paint and are suspended into the “clay”. As the “clay” is pulled stretched and refolded to expose a new clean side, the contaminants will not resurface to cause problems. As pressure is applied to the “clay” during the cleaning process, the “clay” makes contact with the paint finish, and the contaminants are sinking further into the “clay”.
I hope that I have been helpful and offered more understanding of the “clay cleaning process” and it’s benefits. Please feel free to visit our website located at www.erazer.com for additional information, and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at any time.
Thanks,
John
Again, not every new user understands the rules, so be nice (the first time). And as a "Z" user, I'll only comment here regarding other products, methods, etc. Like clay.
Erazer is long winded but correct. I too was a bit of a skeptic regarding clay. Until I used it. And I tried Erazer's product. It really did pick up a lot of stuff from a new car. After I had washed it too. And no, it did not damage my paint and/or clear coat in any way. Like any product, you do have to be careful. You do have to use a lot of lubricant or the clay stuff will leave smuge streaks. Fortunately, you can easily wipe out those streaks, but it does require some effort. The trick is: lots of lub and don't press down. Just a very moderate amount of pressure does the trick. And its fairly quick too. It takes less time than say a good wash job. You'll really see the results AFTER you apply your next coat of wax. See, I didn't use that word!
Clay if used properly is fantastic, and a darn sight better than a) REALLY grinding off a layer of paint with rubbing compound to get it smooth, or b)leaving the contaminants on your paint to stain and ruin it. You cannot believe how smooth the car can be until it is clayed.
The clay referred to is very soft and smooth, today a friend said it reminds him of "Silly Putty". It is not like pottery clay!
To refuse to use clay is to neglect your car.
It seems to me you would have to keep a real close eye on the clay to make sure there are no large particles contaminating it, turning it very frequently...or does using the lubricant make this somewhat unecessary?
Erazer states that the risk of scratches using clay is no greater than washing the car...okay--but then seems to compare the risk of claying a car to washing a car with a mitt or sponge that has been dropped on the ground. Not what I want to hear--If I drop my mitt on the ground while washing the car--I discard it immediately and use another one--to avoid scratches.
It seems a lot of people are extremely happy with this type of product--but--how "careful" do you have to be?
Any replies would be appreciated.
The first step on receipt was wash with detergent and clayed, on close inspection after all steps of my procedure I inspected the black paint under fluorescent light and could not detect any swirling or scratching.
NOTE:- I made sure to use 100% cotton towels.
I too was a little sceptic but am satisfied with the results and the clay is picking up dirt even after a thorough washing.
My reference to the wash mitt and/or sponge is simply that when dropped on the ground, and reused, it can introduce scratches to the paint finish. The thing of it is, clay is an application that should be performed after the paint finish has been washed. As long as the paint is free from large and/or loose dirt and debris, there should be no problem. If you are planning on doing a “clay” cleaning without first washing the finish, you are just rubbing dirt into the paint. If clay is dropped on the ground and reused, it can also introduce scratches to the paint finish. This is virtually the only way that “clay” will introduce scratches to the paint. Although, that doesn’t cover all clays. As stated previously by myself and others, there are some “clays” that are abrasive and many companies have 2 separate “grades” of clay. Most abrasive clays are used in the professional industry, however some companies private label these products and offer them to the consumer so you have to be sure what you are using. Professionals in the industry and many consumers use Erazer. The one composition of Erazer is aggressive enough to be used in the professional industry, yet not abrasive to the paint finish.
Terry
The idea of the particles sinking into the clay so that they don't scratch the finish makes sense to me. I would guess that the lubricant also helps. And I do understand that you have to turn and knead it periodically...and (obviously) you don't want to use it if you drop it on the ground
Sounds like a good product...I'll give it a shot.
Thanks to everyone for your replies.
The idea of the particles sinking into the clay so that they don't scratch the finish makes sense to me. I would guess that the lubricant also helps. And I do understand that you have to turn and knead it periodically...and (obviously) you don't want to use it if you drop it on the ground
Sounds like a good product...I'll give it a shot.
Thanks to everyone for your replies.
First, buy the clay set. 2nd, drive to a deserted parking lot. 3rd, try the clay on a old car--not new, I feel bad for them. At the end, apply wax on the clayed surface and buff after few minutes. Now touch and you will,"ah hhhaaaa". THINK about it, you will only waste $15-20 if you think it doesn't work. If you are kind, maybe you should clay the wohle car and wax it :-) Good Luck, don't get caught