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Comments
The van is the trip car, pile 'em in, bring everything, invite friends, car pool, let's go.
The CUV is very easy to drive, much easier to park. It's also my foul weather choice.
For me they serve different needs. I guess you could compare a Forester to a Mazda5 if they brought the AWD model here, but they don't, or the Focus C Max.
Forester is shorter than a Chevy Cobalt but offers 114 cubic feet of interior space, so it's small outside, medium-sized inside.
It is very, very practical.
They are in reality, for the most part, just smaller minivans for those who are too self-conscious to drive a minivan.
there is the mazda5, but it would be nice to have something a bit bigger and less goofy looking. Kind of like when they had regular and XL sized vans.
i am sure sales drove the packaging, but not everyone really needs that big of a barge. I found our '96 Voyager (standard) to be plenty long enough, and that was about the length of a mid-size CUV.
not that most of the people that shun a van would buy a smaller one. Just one of my pet peeves!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfeOrtoM7g&feature=player_embedded
#2: CGI, compares to Camry/Accord.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqGa75IS04&feature=player_embedded
#3: Awkward but hammer the MPG point home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM3srC7_t7U&feature=player_embedded
#4: Also a bit awkward, especially the kiss part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM3srC7_t7U&feature=player_embedded
That last one showcases the feature that beeps the horn when you air up and reach the right PSI. If you overfill it honks to let you know you've aired down enough.
Traverse, Flex, Pilot, maybe. But CRV? Rav4? Edge? Much smaller than an Ody or Sienna.
either getting something smaller than optimal and jamming in, or getting a barge sized SUV to have enough room, and putting up with the F350 driving dynamics!
speaking of the big barges, they are surprisingly innefficient (many of them). My SIL had a Tahoe (current style), and the 3rd row was a torture chamber, and cargo space with it up was negligible. Even with the 3rd row down (out?) still not a very large hold. The Suburban is obviously better, but man, is that big!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The Forester has better steering feel than any minivan I tried, which is what you recommended as an alternative.
It's far less isolated.
As for "unrealistic confidence" the rates above prove the SL AMG owners are #1 at that. :P
I test drove one, a few complaints:
* no power sliding doors (JDM has it)
* no AWD (also a JDM feature)
* only seats 4 when you have any cargo
You can get a 2nd row bench in the home market.
They really do not bring the best of that model to the US market.
Here's a commercial from Canada for the old model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnkHCJ4JBTw
We should just drop the mini part and call them vans.
I called the Mazda5 a "vanlet". The folks in that thread got a kick out of that.
We have 3 vehicles, so I get to commute in a fun roadster. :shades:
But ... that made it OK to get a minivan for weekends and trips. The van is over 2 tons and at 200" seems big to me, since I like small cars. I think a Suburban is 222.4" so forget it, I wouldn't want to drive one if you gave it to me.
Wife had a sedan, but nothing fits from the big box stores, Costco, etc. Then she got an AWD wagon, but she didn't like the low seating, so she's much happier with the CUV.
She test drove the dust-buster Ford Aerostar and she swore she'd never drive a minivan. And she hasn't.
SUV's and CUV's, for the majority of the 15 years we've been married:
Ford Expedition
Ford Explorer
(2) Saturn VUEs
Mazda CX-7
She likes the security of AWD; she likes the visibility of the high seating position. Now that the kids are older, the VUEs and CX-7 are a good mix of people and cargo carrying capacity.
fin - you and I agree most of the time, but not on this topic. If we were all 'sheep', wouldn't we all just need a Kia Rio? Who needs 300HP family sedans and 500HP supercars?
The US automobile market is about "want", not "need", for many people. 400HP pickup truck? You can get it. 200HP RWD 2+2? You can get that, too.
Horses and courses, me thinks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gnIML5-GM
You understand the benefits of a CUV better than most.
I'd love to see fin test driving a Lexus RX, in fact I'd pay to see it. First thing he'd complain about is the intrusive stability control. Fact is, VSC intrudes early and often, and discourages even semi-aggressive driving.
The thought of it making you overconfident and driving more aggressively is laughable.
my oldest is going into his senior year of college, so won't be around long, and rarely travels with us. And #2 is learning to drive, and once she can solo we may never see her again :sick:
so, we really don't need a barge like the odyssey. We do, however, need a decent amount of boxy carrying capacity. so for us, a small/midsize CUV is perfect. Pilot, highlander are just too big and bulky. and thirsty.
Oh, she also likes the sitting up a little higher angle now. so another reason for a trucklet. Off roading, not a concern. And a reason I would consider the FWD RDX (that, and I am "frugal")
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I really think crossovers are just glorified wagons and not in the same class as minivans (although minivans have gotten a bit too big).
Did a couple of hours in the in-laws Buick LeSabre Ltd today. Nice ride, lots of buttons to push, but I miss the higher seating position of our van. Our old Outback has plenty of room but it I'm sitting that low, I'm wishing I was in a Miata.
Buuuuut...there aren't any wagons, right? So if I don't want/need a 'mini' van, then a CUV is a-ok with me.
that was the one thing my wife worried about with the Outback. it looked too "wagony". I explained no, it was an SUV.
the explorer was just the modern LTD wagon for people that would not be caught dead owning the wagons their parents had.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Forester is really an evolved tall wagon than something pretending to be a rough and tumble off roader anyway.
That insurance blurb is one of the most vague and ridiculous things posted here. Not to mention I am quite sure a Veyron or Phantom carries more risk.
Want, not need...indeed. I want to not have to play dodgeball with those who suffer from situational distraction.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I don't think she's against minivans altogether - we have friends who own them and she is perfectly content to be a passenger. Just doesn't want to drive them.
Stick - The Expedition was bought in late '98, so the kids were 10 and 12 at the time. Before that, she had an Escort sedan (that the aforementioned Tempo was traded in on). The kids are now 25 and 23 - and the 23 year old is still at home, so there will often be three of us in the CX-7.
Fin - It's been a long while since I've spent any time in your part of the country, but here in Colorado I don't think you can link poor driving habits to any one particular type of vehicle. Given that I deliver pizza 3 or 4 nights a week I'm privy to a lot of bad and distracted drivers on the roads of my little burg (population 50,000).
With more AWD availability and taller cargo areas, sure.
My little '98 Forester fit an oversized clothes washer still in the box.
Our bigger '02 Legacy wagon could not do that.
We don't have the anti-wagon sentiment that many people do, nor do we have anything against minivans. We've owned both. I'd consider a Passat wagon TDI if VW produced consistently reliable cars.
Well, we're talking about other crossovers and you seem to have one specific model in mind, and then over-generalizing.
I don't think our Forester is any more isolated than an Impreza or Legacy sedan. Or Rogue vs. Sentra, etc.
Does AWD make everyone overconfident? Another generalization. At least provide some evidence to support the theory. Sure you've observed a few 4x4s in ditches, but isn't that likely because they're the only ones out there in those conditions?
If crossovers are so dangerous, why is the Highlander one of the cheapest cars to insure? Cheaper than any subcompact that costs half.
I'd argue that a "Sport" mode button in the center console would have far more of an effect at creating overconfidence than an out-of-sight, out-of-mind feature like AWD.
People press the button and think they're an Andretti all of the sudden. Have 700hp on tap probably hurts, too.
Insurance claims for sports cars are far, far worse than for crossovers.
The insurance blurb had a winky emotorcon that flew right over your head.
have my visibility blocked
You're following too closely. Leave a 2 second gap or more.
I get stuck behind them dawdling at on-ramps
Yesterday you were saying drivers are over-confident and drive them too fast, now they're too slow? Make up your mind.
prime offender in crosswalks when I am a pedestrian
So now they run people over?
tall poser
How would you even know that? Maybe they just want that box to fit in the trunk. You can pay $50 for each appliance delivery, but we don't have to. Are sports car drivers posing as Andretti?
play dodgeball with those who suffer from situational distraction
Are you saying that American drivers in sedans are skilled and well trained. Seriously? Around here I feel like nobody knows how to drive.
You're just spewing one offensive stereotype after another, with no concrete evidence to support any of these outlandish (even contradictory) claims.
Not posing in any way, shape, or form. Used as intended.
Visibility has nothing to do with following distance, ever hear of peripheral vision? It becomes more difficult as the wannabe adventure seekers need to sit higher and higher. Eventually all of us who prefer actual cars are going to have to donk our rides to see.
Where did I say anything about driving too fast? Overconfidence is related to much more than speed.
A certain vehicle and driver demographic does seem to be the key crosswalk crowder in my area, yes.
How would I know? The box can fit in a van or wagon. But some just need to sit tall to feel strong and safe, and they love the image.
You don't have a right not to be offended. If you want to play that game, I am offended by your perpetual devils advocate stance, and your constant rooting for the supposed underdog, no matter how false may it be. If you don't like the cut of my jib, you can skip my posts. Have fun trying :P
You don't find isolation in the ride height? That's where it comes from. Of course, the coarse engine (oh, it's charm) might negate some of it.
What "evidence" do you want? The Highlander mostly just dawdles from office park to tract house. It's one model, another beige Toyota.
Sports cars cost far far more to repair than mall cruising soft roaders. One fender bender will cost 10x the price of a wannabe tough truck crash. Who was defending sports cars anyway? I guess the red herring works in the crooked beltway. 700hp? Another fish, I guess.
Sure it does.
In my Miata, if I tailgate a Cooper I can't see anything. Farther back I see just fine.
Where did I say anything about driving too fast?
Too fast for conditions. Same thing.
A certain vehicle and driver demographic does seem to be
Selective attention, I'd wager.
box can fit in a van or wagon. But some just need to sit tall to feel strong and safe
How do you know which? You're making assumptions.
If crossovers drivers really were that inattentive we'd see insurance premiums skyrocket. If they hit pedestrians at crosswalks the premiums would be entirely unaffordable in this litigious society.
I'd argue that it's more "dumbed down drivers training".
Quoted your post from the diesel thread. :P
Do orchards count?
I want the ground clearance to get around in the snow. Trucks leave tracks so if you don't have 8" or more you're stranded, pretty much.
I welcome the ground clearance considering how often my Miata bottoms out. Even the speed bumps in the garage are scary.
I bet if you put your AMG on a lift, you'd see a few scrapes on the under carriage.
http://vimeo.com/35220096#
It is funny, though, that they wax nostalgic in a wagon that never existed (GTO wagon is a one-off).
Also, he says a sheet of plywood will not fit in any minivan and that is patently false. It does, I have. With room to spare.
I'll put my flame suit on before I say that my Sienna drives 100 times better than my dad's Old Custom Cruiser. That thing guzzled gas and could never track straight. It needed constant steering corrections. I don't miss it one bit, despite the V8/RWD layout.
Selective attention, or smoke where there is fire. It must be one of those :P
Stereotyping isn't always right, but it tends to be somewhat accurate.
Who said anything about being hit? Pedestrians are good at dodging things. From someone who is on foot 5x a week in a dense high traffic area, I seem to find crowders fitting a specific description with high regularity. Last time I had to loudly slap a car for coming too close, it was a Sienna, FWIW :shades:
My car doesn't sit terribly low, the old car feels lower. Neither do any duty in deep snow, and I am among the 98% of the population who has no exposure to unpaved roads.
I guess you're fine is long as your neighbor owns a CUV/SUV and can bail you out. :shades:
Speaking of commercials, just saw one for the Altima...that thing really has a dose of Infiniti in it. Huge improvement from the very aged previous model, even if it isn't exactly beautiful.
Problem solved!
Saw the ILX ad again...just lame.