Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

backy

Yes indeed.

Similarities between E60 and Genesis:

* They are both 4-door sedans.
* Both have the Hofmeister Kink.

Differences:

* Different front ends, including headlamp shape/size, hood, grille, and air dam.
* Different rear ends, including trunk lid and headlamp shape.
* Genesis has a character line running through the door handles; E60 has a higher, sharper character line above the door handles.
* Different wheel styling
* Different mirror size/shape
* (Much) different interiors
* Genesis is a larger car (length, width, interior volume)

Restyle the C-pillar and they would look totally different. As it is, there is a similarity in the side views because of the prominent "kink" in the greenhouse. The differences are not that apparent from a side view. If the Genesis really wanted to copy the E60, they would have borrowed more than the Hofmeister Kink, which has become a favorite of many automakers over the past 20 years.

fintail

If chrome makes classy, the classiest people on the planet must be driving Maybachs and the 1958 GM senior lineup. But they aren't, are they? :shades:

I'd actually prefer the Genesis interior to the E60, at least in original form.

FWIW, keyless entry was standard on that car. My E55 also has a key slot in the front door handle...the keyless fob (the car has no key) has a fail safe blade style key that slides out and can open the door in case the electronic fob dies.

fintail

Same proportions, same profile, same greenhouse design, same kink. The greenhouse and profile are easily the most memorable traits of modern cars.

H designers knew not to give the Genesis the goofy "Dame Edna" style lighting, so they toned it down, and created a unique grille. It;s not like they could get away with a twin kidney design, even if they wanted to. There was no choice involved.

How much larger is the Genesis? Of course the cars aren't going to be identical down to the cm, that's simply not feasible.

Just face it, if the BMW didn't have that general profile, neither would the Genesis. One influenced the other, because there are aspirations of playing in a certain field. Sales figures aren't supporting it though.

toye

"Just enough chrome" to show off lines of the auto on the bottom where the auto on the top doesn't. I think Nissan and Ford and others have been at times "chrome overboard".on some of their vehicles.

The Genesis was designed so that you can never ever lock your keys inside. I don't know if your MB has that tech yet! So there is no need for the ugly key entry on the door handle.

backy

C'mon, now. The profile of both cars is similar to the profile of most modern 4-door sedans, dictated by the need for a low Cd for fuel economy. The profile, including the roofline, is hardly unique to the E60. The kink gives the greenhouses a similar appearance. With a different C-pillar (imagine the Genesis with a 3rd window beyond the door for example, or single-pane rear window) the similarity vanishes except for the generic sweep of the roof. What did you expect Hyundai to do, give the Genesis a flat roof? :surprise: Actually, the Genesis' roofline is very similar to that of the Gen 4 Sonata, which of course uses a different C pillar design. So Hyundai could have simply been following its own design heritage, with both cars being designed for low Cd.

The specs for the E60 and Genesis are easily available online, if you are really interested in the size difference. It's enough of a difference to put the Genesis in "large car" class interior-wise, plus a few inches difference outside.

Face it--these are examples of modern 4-door sedan design. The only clear borrowed styling element is the kink, and as we've discussed, that did not originate with BMW.

stever

The profile of both cars is similar to the profile of most modern 4-door sedans

You could flop eight or ten sedan pics up and I probably wouldn't be able to guess more than two of them. I bet most people couldn't either.

tjc78

! So there is no need for the ugly key entry on the door handle

My Genesis has a slot for the key on the driver's door and the trunk. How would you get into the car if the battery died and the power locks wouldn't operate? The key is hidden inside the "fob".

toye

You're probably right I'll have to examine the driver's door...It shows you how hidden the key entry is on the Genesis I knew of the key inside the fob...The key entry is probably also hidden on the trunk as well!

fintail

What lines are there to show off? To show off how it looks like a 5er? This isn't a car that enthusiasts will be embracing in 40 years and pining about the classic design. And yeah, Fords can be pretty chromey.

My MB is not a new model and uses the tech introduced for MY 1997 or 98. IIRC it was among the first non-key systems. My sharp mind prevents me from locking keys inside :P . I am not sure how modern proximity-based systems handle this...but as it is something I have never done, it hasn't caused me any thought...but I am sure any "keyless go" style system prevents it...but there must be a fail safe backdoor somewhere.

fintail

Come on now, indeed. The profile of the later car is almost identical to the earlier one, it uses a nearly identical greenhouse, is for all intents and purposes the same size. This isn't a game of "if"....had the BMW not used that greenhouse and general profile on the 5er, the Genesis wouldn't look as it does. Simple.

Gen 4 Sonata, the one that is really an Audi influenced piece, even though it shares almost no stylistic elements and has a completely different greenhouse? Right-o.

Most cars are designed for a low Cd, but not all cars look the same. Heck, MB W212 has one of the lowest Cd of any production car today, but it is an angular boxy thing.

"We" haven't discussed anything about the origin of that kink, it would behoove you not to jump to such conclusions. A wikipedia article doesn't necessarily reflect on reality, no credible body uses it as gospel. I'd love to see some corroboration to that Kaiser theory, but I suspect none will be offered. FYI that feature predates the Kaiser in more than one example. Your beloved wiki is no bible.

backy

... had the BMW not used that greenhouse and general profile on the 5er, the Genesis wouldn't look as it does. Simple.

I accept that, and respect it, as an opinion. But not fact, unless you have evidence. If you don't think there is any reality in what's in a public source such as Wikepedia, you certainly can't expect anyone to accept anything you say as fact, without substantiation.

Here's a 1951 car with the "kink"--note it's NOT a BMW:



Can you show us a photo of a pre-1951 BMW with the "Hofmeister Kink", to prove your assertion that it was originated by BMW? BTW, Wikipedia said the Kaiser Golden Dragon was ONE pre-1961 car with the kink, not the only one. Wikipedia is no bible, but I'll take it any day over someone with an obvious bias.

wolverinejoe80

You have no idea how impressive Equus looks in person. It makes LS boring. and actually I love the kdm bling.



i think people will be so impressed when they see Equus in person.

these people were impressed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22O5QnSLdeE

toye

Oh god don't show the Equus with the hood ornament Fintail may still think that this version will make to US lol :shades:

wolverinejoe80

i can line up at least 6 cars and all of them will look like bmw 5 series. Bangle's influence doesn't stop at Genesis.

Genesis looks different enough. why don't you line up LS and Genesis? you will have a similar result.

wolverinejoe80

Yes it's all subjective. but i think anybody can see koreans are getting better while honda or toyota is stuck at the 2nd gear and maybe even regressing. I'm the first will tell you that Hyundai has made some of the most boring cars ever. but you see a gradual improvement in their design. they are learning and adapting.

i was very critical on hyundais for the longest time. hyundai designed some of the laziest design ever to most boring car ever in last 20 years.

Here are my take on hyundai's recent design.

Genesis Sedan - an epitome of ultimate korean conservatism that works. 'let's be happy and be just good enough to compete' design. sure it looks good. I think Genesis is Hyundai Adaptation at its finest. no one hates genesis design because it's as safe as it gets. but it's not challenging. it's not bring anything new to the table. I understand the decision because it's just too risky to gamble on design when you are trying to sell a 40k car. Design works, and it's definitely the building block for good things for years to come.

Equus - Another conservative korean luxury with little bit of a spice to it. Definitely more adventurous than Genesis. I've seen it in person in 3 occasion and I was impressed by its masculine & powerful stance. 'Bentley' line doesn't really show up on pictures. it does reminds you of S/LS, but surprisingly it looks unique enough. It doesn't scream 'borrowed design'. bit disappointed at the rear design in pics, but in person it looks good.

Genesis Coupe - a good designed car minus a good confident front grill. it's probably hyundai's first real 'styling' achievement. although it's not perfect, it made people notice. it looks athletic, well proportioned and and is a no nonsense all out sports. shame that front doesn't work for many people. i got used to it, but i can see why people hate it.

sonata - isn't original, but it's daring because there were no 4 door coupe design in its segment before. it's the new kid, and it sure is making alot of noise. you might hate the Sonata, but most likely 8 of 10 people will prefer Sonata's look over Accord or camry.

new Elantra - Koreans taking another step. Hyundai is showing their design capability in a tiny little Elantra. This is by far the best korean car design ever IMO. it's adventurous with a good proportion. whether you like the insect like fish face or not, this is something Hyundai should be very very proud of. anyway, hyundai's take on big grill was dated all the way back in 03 with hcd8, and more complete version in 2006 with Arnejs. however, Hyundai never had balls back then. now, it seems like designers have much more freedom. no more bald korean men with ties interfering every design move. well, at least that's what it seems like. i would've never thought hyundai would 'ok' the hexagon design nor aggressive lines on 4 door midsize sedan. I fully expect next Azera to be as exciting as this elantra. same goes to Veloster which will complete the design cycle.

koreans now have family look going. people are now talking about their design. Honda? ultimate regression. Toyota? ulitmate laziness. I think Koreans will conitnue to surprise people. I've seen this already and that brand is called Samsung.

And I can go on and on about Kia and Schreyer and his mind boggling achievement. I think you guys can consider Genesis 1.0 and Equus 1.0 to be Hyundai's last batch of korean conservatism. next round will be all about sculpting the car as if it is about to jump off from the cliff. i can only see more provocative lines and 4 door coupe styling in the future. Sonata was just a start.

fintail

My microwave makes the LS look boring. The LS IS boring. And that bling might appeal to those who think an Escalade is class and taste, or that a faux Tuscan villa mcmansion is a sign of opulence and high society, but not everyone sees it that way.

The random person off the street also thinks my E55 is brand new and that my old fintail is worth a heavy 50K or more.

fintail

Bangle didn't invent that greenhouse nor those proportions. He stuck on the bits (light assemblies and interior in particular) that the Genesis actually looks better without.

LS and Genesis don't look similar. LS and Genesis also aren't in the same class, just as an M5 and a Genesis aren't in the same class.

wolverinejoe80

like the video that i posted, people would think the new Equus is a new $100k sedan from europe. it looks that impressive in person whether it is original or not.

and LS isn't boring IMO. it's bit outdated, but it was classy japanese luxury. but of course it will look boring when it sits next to a car that is bigger with more aggressive lines. it's kinda like when you see G37 and Genesis Coupe side by side, Gen Coupe makes g37 bland because Gen Coupe has that prominent Z character line and more exaggerated slanted eyes.

I've seen Equus in a rich korean neighborhood with bunch of 7 series and S classes. I even saw XJ. Equus did not look out of the place at all.

anyway best Hyundai design achievement so far IMO. will be my next car.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/08/184032.jpg

fintail

What counts as "substantiation" to you, and why should I provide it when you don't do likewise?

Looking at the others on the market with upmarket aspirations who have oh so coincidentally adopted this feature, and now this, says enough for me. Mimic a greenhouse or profile, maybe give it the lazy design trait of gigantic stretched light assemblies that is the darling of Asian makes, and boom, you can pretend you are a conqueror.

The onus is on you to show any actual supporting theory of who influenced the kink. BMW corporate propaganda claims it dates to the 30s - you gladly defer to Hyundai corporate propaganda, so you should have no problem with that.

Nearly every BMW since 1961 has had the kink, and if that wasn't the case, neither would the Genesis. It's just that easy.

Wikipedia has very little cred neither academic nor automotive.

fintail

Upon seeing the previous Infiniti M for the first time, my mother thought it was a Buick. She also thought a Scion xB was a Russian car. The average non-enthusiast is a lot more unwashed than some might fathom.

The LS is a car to ride in, not to drive. Dull dull dull, no performance, no life. Boring. Maybe fun if you are over 70.

For those coupes (which are not luxury cars), the side profile of the Genesis is more interesting yes. I take it the large engined variant also doesn't have that Infiniti exhaust drone.

Exaggerated eyes on a car aren't always a positive. Carmakers are really overdoing that one now, lazy lazy design.

Koreans will be as impartial about the Equus as Stuttgarters are about the S class. I don't care about the KDM.

sweendogy

i just find it funny. --i'm assuming this is the same dealership you did research on and said you saw alot of fords in the used car lot- -- cant remember the exact post but you def have done a lot of research on all car companies.

wolverinejoe80

everybody hated the insect like look of 458 at first. it was not like any other Ferrari. now people are all over the new radical look of the 458. still there are many haters out there, but people can't seem to stop talking about the new sheriff in town. i was bit skeptical too, but now i'm a convert. it makes f430 boring as hell. it's way ahead of its time. I have to say i like it even more than F40.

you can say Elantra's headlight design is very much 458 like. new elantra makes Cruze 3-4 year old design already. i see Hyundai really going for that futuristic look to take over the small car market globally. I think the success of the new elantra will dictate Hyundai's design in the future.

backy

Since you don't want us to believe any statement made by Hyundai, I know that for the sake of fairness you won't want us to believe any statement from ANY automaker, including BMW.

But I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used your recommended Internet source, google, to look at lots of photos of BMW models from the 1930s. I couldn't see one "kink" in the C pillar. They were all perpendicular or rounded. Maybe you can do the same and if you find a photo of that elusive BMW "kink" from the '30s, you can share it with us--since BMW declined to do so.

The "Hofmeister kink" is a good example of what great marketing can do. Take something created by someone else, make it your own, take credit for it, and market the heck out of it. Pretty soon, everyone thinks you invented the thing.

smarty666

no, I never said anything about used Ford so your thinking about someone else. I'm not sure what your going on about with this research stuff. I guess you get confused when your so busy putting people down who owns or get vehicles you don't like.

smarty666

Most Lexus and MB are like that, they are car to ride in, not to drive in. Dull, dull, dull, no performance, no life. Boring. That is why I've steered away from both Lexus and MB. Everyone will tell you, if you want a performance, driver oriented luxury vehicle, go get a BMW, Audi, or Infiniti.

No one is going to recommend people to go get a MB or Lexus if they are looking for those characteristics. Except for a few sport specific models, those two companies are more focused on luxury comfort. Doesn't get any more comfortable then a LS or S-Class!

sweendogy

i put sales numbers and comparisons in chats for informational purposes and to debunk generalizations given by owners of such cars-- i.e. the TL being a performance leader--or the fact that it sells well, given the new design of such car has been a complete failure when you look at US sales numbers. Enjoy the ride.

fintail

Well, the F360/430 style was from the 90s and hadn't really been updated. It was time for a change. I see the new style Ferraris every few days in my neck of the woods, and I don't find them objectionable. Shocking in their own way, but time will breed comfort. The 360/430 cars were quite a departure from the 355 style cars too, but in a decade a design can go stale.

I'll take a 250GT Berlinetta Lusso or a 288GTO, thanks.

The Cruze is pretty much a 3-4 year old design now. I think the Elantra has a kind of ridiculous looking face, but that's just me. I like a little subtlety and balance, not large light clusters compensating for a lack of solid design.

fintail

I'll take the normal MB over the normal Lexus for spirited driving, and certainly the sport model in a like comparison. It's a huge reason why the LS just can't compete with the S and 7er in Europe, where people drive a little more enthusiastically than here.

MB has never been about pure sport (although it does have a stable of historic and current sport models to make anyone green with envy). BMW has been sport-luxury, in that order. MB has been luxury-sport, in that area. Lexus is luxury-isolation.IMO you don't find much sport in an Audi unless you seek a few sport specific models too.

fintail

I'll find that pic of an old BMW as soon as I see corroborating evidence about BMW copying the feature. Deal? :shades:

You seem to really be hung up on this, maybe you could email BMW and ask. Awfully big claims for someone who can't document where the kink started and who inspired BMW.

I have never seen a piece of BMW advertising extolling the kink. It gets a little mention on a side page on the main website. It has nothing to do with marketing. Ask the average BMW buyer what it is - they won't know.

Nobody with eyes can deny the Genesis wouldn't look as it does if the E60 didn't look as it did.

backy

I have already found corroborating evidence that proves BMW copied the kink from other automakers including Kaiser. As I said, I have scanned photos of all BMW models from the 1930s and found no sign of the kink, contrary to BMW's claim that they first used this design feature in the 1930s. The reasonable and logical conclusion is that BMW took an existing design feature created by others and incorporated it into their cars in the early '60s. If you wish to provide evidence to the contrary, go ahead, otherwise I consider the matter closed.

I have never seen a piece of BMW advertising extolling the kink.

Web sites are a modern form of advertising, and one of the main tools companies use today for marketing. To say that a web site like the one extolling the design of BMWs has nothing to do with marketing is naive at best.

BTW, did you notice how MB borrowed from the Lexus design book for the latest E-Class? The resemblance in the rear is unmistakable. Also looks a lot like the Gen 4 Sonata. Looks like the German marques have no problem copying styling details from other automakers: Lexus, Hyundai, Kaiser...

smarty666

I don't even have the new TL :confuse: :sick:

fintail

Blather at wiki is not evidence, sorry. Close the case all you want, it speaks volumes. Not one credible voice will contend BMW was influenced by Kaiser. Reminds me of public sector sucks who say "no comment" when they do wrong.

Look at that website and tell me how the mention of the kink is marketing. If BMW is using that styling trait as a marketing tool, they are doing an insanely poor job - which is unlikely as BMW is a marketing master in virtually every attempt it makes. Talk about naive. BTW, your thinly veiled personal insults speak volumes. Naive indeed.

I look at the W212 as more Acura influenced than anything, with the weird angularity and almost kind of a beak. Of course, when designed properly it has an insanely low drag coefficient. The Lexus lights curve up steeper and have a completelt different lens design. The E60 (Genesis influencer) also has lights that angle up a little, and Alfa has used narrow vertical rear lights for eons. The rest of the car couldn't be more different - if anything, the dull and barely selling GS is another derivative of the Hofmeister, and another car that wouldn't wear it BMW did not. And to speak of the GS, the second gen model was definitely influenced by the W210. That Sonata on the other hand, it apes the 03 Accord....even if H might claim it comes from a "European design house" like the tale it spun about the Genesis. Maybe I should consider the source. Is Hyundai making payments for all this?

And all of this because I dare to point out the E60 influence in the Genesis, and how I'd rather spend money on a late model S than a new Genesis. Amusing.

sweendogy

who said you did ? :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

backy

Blather at wiki is not evidence, sorry.

How about evidence from a site dedicated to BMWs:

http://www.bmwism.com/bmws_designers.htm

Note in the bio of Herr Hofmesiter, there's a picture of a 1951 Kaiser with the caption, "prototype of the Hofmeister kink iin (sic) the American design of Dodge Kaiser, 1951". Since no BMW designer penned the 1951 Kaiser, it's clear the "kink" predates its use on BMWs. It's also interesting that apparently Hofmeister didn't even design the first BMW with the "kink". That is attributed by several sources to Bertone. Note the comment on the above page (emphasis added by me):

It (Hofmeister Kink) has been shown for the first time in 1961 on the BMW 3200 CS, so most likely it was designed by Bertone.

More evidence that the "kink" did not appear on BMWs until 1961.

I think this one is also interesting:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/01/16/hofmeister-squared/

Be sure to read the comments at the end, which point out how Raymond Loewry used the "kink" in the 1950s and that likely other designers used it before 1961 (see Kaiser) as well, because it's a good way to strengthen the roof.

In addition to the "kinked" 1951 Kaiser, Studebaker (for whom Loewry was a designer) it turns out used the "kink" quite a bit, especially on their coupes, dating back to the early '50s, e.g.:


Look at that website and tell me how the mention of the kink is marketing.

Since that isn't possible to do without insulting your intelligence, I will pass on that.

You are getting really picky on the GS vs. E Class design similarity. Lens design? Curve up steeper? Are you saying, if a feature is not an exact copy, there's no influence? If so, there's no influence of the E60 on the Genesis. True, both cars have the Hofmeister Kink, but that feature didn't originate with BMW. If you think in your own mind Hyundai copied the E60 with the Genesis, fine. But there's no evidence to support that opinion.

And if you think the Gen 4 Sonata apes the '03 Accord, then you must also believe Honda was influenced by the early '90s Buick Skylark.




Other than the Accord and Sonata having horizontally-oriented tail lamps, there's no similarity in their designs whatsoever. Oh, wait... both cars have four doors, four wheels, eight windows, two outside mirrors, and an "H" on the trunk lid.

iluvmysephia1

that's close enough for fin!

fintail

A fansite. No sources, no documentation, simply a once sentence blurb and an image. No bibliography, no supporting material. Please, stop wasting my time.

I don't know why you can goggle some junk and then try to lecture me about automotive design, but I am not fooled.

If we want to talk about a little kink, the hours of googling you succumbed to in the neverending quest to defend the honor of the swoopy H, you missed this American original:

- predates the Kaiser by a full 3 years.

And if we want to talk about reverse slanted C-pillars, this predates the pretty Studie by 15 years:



Let's just deal with it and move on. If the BMW didn't have a certain look, neither would the Genesis. The latter desperately wants to compete on the same level of the former, and fanboys along with corporate propagandists will do anything possible to believe it is so. Understand?

The E and that toaster of an old Sonata (oh no wait, it resembles an Audi, hahahaha!!!) have about as much in common as the Accord and that Buick.

Next.,,,,,

smarty666

oh I thought you were implying I did? I have the previous gen TL a 2008 so I got that one just in time as you can imagine. I like the interior on the new TL but can't stand the size growth and that front plow grill they have on it now :sick: I've tried to like it but I just couldn't live with it and warm up to it. Acura is suppose to change it for the MMC update next April but I don't know if that will be enough though.

I understand Acura wanting to make big changes and differentiate themselves from the other luxury companies but I can think of as least a half dozen better ways, off the top of my head, they could have done it then with that shield grill! Just my opinion of course. I don't think all their problems lie with the shield grill though b/c the MDX and TSX have the same grill, just in a smaller version, and they both had sold consistently well even with the grill.

backy

I don't know why you can goggle some junk and then try to lecture me about automotive design...

How about because that's what you asked me to do--check out google for evidence the Hofmeister Kink did not originate with BMW?

You could save everyone here a lot of time if you could please list for us those Web sites you find acceptable to you. I expect it will be a very short list.

Thanks for posting some other cars that used the "kink" long before BMW did. As I've already noted, per the references I posted including Wikipedia, several automakers used that design feature many years before BMW did. BMW simply stole that feature in 1961 and put their stamp on it through clever marketing. But good marketing is necessary to be successful in the automotive world, as Hyundai has learned over the past decade or so.

If the BMW didn't have a certain look, neither would the Genesis.

That statement has no basis in fact... unless you can provide us with something other than "because I say so".

backy

For those of you with access to Automobile Magazine, the September issue has an article on Hyundai and what makes it tick, including the concept of "Hyundai Speed". I found it very enlightening as it explains how Hyundai is different from other automotive companies. I couldn't find a link to that article, but maybe someone else can find it or maybe the article will be posted online in the near future.

sweendogy

i was (am) a fan of the previous TL-S. Sharp looking car- was not trying to be something its not.. I think they acura understands that in its current form they cant compete with better all around cars... The MDX is a nice truck and does well for what it is but its not the bread and butter of the car company-- the TSX has grown in size as well and prob sells well but again its not going to get people in the door either. I cannot understand acuras move in this direction.. to put that grill on this car-- plus to oversize it while still offering the RL is stupid... On my way back from a trip i saw a group of 2nd generation Legends -- (must be a car club of some sort).. both coupe and sedan-- boy are those good looking cars that still still perform (with the Type2? eng) and look like they belong in the year 2010. Acura could learn alot from hyundai (now i know they are on different platforms) but the Genesis (coupe and sedan) are what acura needs to be -- good looking with performance..

smarty666

agreed on most parts, though the MDX has been there bread and butter since the last gen TL, it has consistently had the highest sales of all their models. They have turned strangely into Lexus now. There biggest seller is their luxury SUV (MDX) like the RX is for Lexus. The TSX is very close behind in sales to the MDX. Of all the Acura models on the road now, I see the MDX the most.

fintail

Wikipedia certainly isn't a credible site. Maybe I can go in and wreak havoc on the Hyundai pages

Show me the marketing that BMW uses for the kink. A page that nobody reads buried on the boring part of a website is not marketing. Go to the average BMW driver and ask them to tell you about the kink. I actually have asked this (I also asked about the amount of cylinders in the engine)...they got the second question anyway. No maker has used that kink like BMW - it is a trademark shape for one, which means wannabes will use it.

If the 5er didn't have that look, neither would the Genesis. It's not some random cosmic coincidence. Cut and dried, "case closed". If you don't like it, you are free to do something about it, bring it on...but only the most obsessive fanboy would deny this.

backy

It is well known that press releases are a powerful marketing tool; see for example:

A press release or a media release, as it is also called, is a condensed article that is written in a journalistic style. The purpose of the news release is to highlight interesting and newsworthy news about your company or organization. Press release publishing offers benefits to any business, and is a powerful marketing tool in an integrated marketing plan.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/press.htm

Here's a BMW press release highlighting the Hofmeister Kink in a new BMW model:

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub/p/us/pressDetail.html?outputChannelId=9- - &id=T0061273EN_US&left_menu_item=node__2237

(There's many more BMW press releases that mention the "kink", if you want to see them.)

The inescapable conclusion (for everyone but the most obsessive German luxury car fanboys) is that BMW uses the "kink" in its marketing.

Yes, cut and dried, case closed--agreed.

fintail

PR stuff only has value if it reaches the consumer. The average consumer couldn't have the slightest idea about the name Hofmeister. That 10 month old blurb hidden in a distant corner of the internet is nice, but few ever saw it.

No BMW kink, no imitator kink. It's just that easy.

backy

Well, now you are talking about whether BMW's marketing is effective or not. Which could be sort of on topic... ineffective marketing on BMW's part could weaken the company and brand and make it easier for others in the luxury market, such as Hyundai.

No kink on Cadillacs, Studebakers, Kaisers et. al., prior to 1961, then no kink on BMWs--itself an imitator of what others had done. The fact Hyundai and many, many other auto companies have used that same design feature is really pretty much a nit to this discussion of whether Hyundai is making room in the luxury market... don't you think?

p.s. There's lots more press releases where the one I posted came from: 3-Series, 5-Series, SUVs... BMW likes to talk up the Hofmeister kink a lot it seems.

stever

Wikipedia certainly isn't a credible site.

Oh, it can be as credible as its footnotes.

Check out this post for luxury car sales numbers, if you're curious:

circlew, "GM News, New Models and Market Share" #12048, 15 Aug 2010 4:05 pm

tjc78

That chart is very interesting in the fact that it does not have the ES350, G , 3 & TL. I also would love to know if in the Genesis sales if the coupe is included. If so the chart is not accurate.

Also, how in the heck are the above models not on the list when the Genesis is? It can't be price point because any of them can certainly get pricier (or equal to) the Genesis. If the ES350 etc aren't considered luxury cars I don't believe the Genesis should be either.

fintail

Putting a short paragraph on the back 40 section of a site that nobody reads is not PR or marketing or anything of the sort. Again, the only ones who know what the kink is are enthusiasts, and they didn't learn it from the basement of a website or an old archived PR release.

BMW wasn't trying to compete with or emulate Caddy et al - the Genesis et al are desperate to compete with BMW and the 5er in particular, which is why the Gen bears an insanely strong resemblance to the E60. No BMW kink, no imitator kink.

fintail

Oh, it's not credible. Examine the dissection of that chart - seems like arbitrary or random choices, and if the non-luxury coupe is included in those Gen figures, it is wrong.

stever

CircleW's graphic appears to have come from thetruthaboutcars.com but there's no analysis there about where the numbers came from or how models were chosen.