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I see a major red flag, though.
40% of those buying Genesis have traded in vehicles LIKE Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche.
My emphasis.
That is an important detail. What that means is trades from all luxury brands, most likely.
Still meaningful and important news, but it's not the same as saying 40% of buyers came from those 4 brands.
40% had owned a car from a luxury make, and that would probably include Infiniti, Acura, and Audi as well. Maybe even Cadillac and Lincoln.
That's a much bigger group than just the 4 he mentioned.
I don't see it as a major red flag, however. I think the point to take away from this article is the fact Hyundai is getting owners from other brands, and both the 90% and 40% figures are pretty significant in any way looking at it.
As did throwing in the Porsche name.
It's an impressive feat - 40% came from luxury makes. No need to spin.
Well, if a Porsche SUV does, I suppose so.
Are people listening to their selves when they make statements like that? Or is it just too irresistible to make dumb statements when you're jealous inside?
That is a nice red-orange on that thing, BTW.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I wonder if the H will be a regular production item.
It sure is important sometimes to sift thru the BS otherwise known as press releases etc.. A statement that could be easily construed to mean that 40% of Hyundai buyers came from the 'luxo' big 4, bought Genesis' - and that is not what that says. As you note 'like' could very easily include makes like Cadillac, Lincoln etc. and not quite the same as saying specifically that 40% of those sales were trade-ins (or whatever) of BMWs/MBs/Lexus' etc. I bet if you would survey those sales at a BMW dealer, a whole lot more than a lousy 40% of those sales come from previous owners of those same four marques. Simply because luxury buyers WANT to shop at luxury dealers, and Hyundai is still quite a bit shy in that department.
The day that the Hyundai dealer lot becomes a good place to find a deal on a used BMW (or MB, Lexus etc) is about the same day that Hyundai has found a real place in the 'luxury' market
Or, that's the day the Hyundai dealer's used car buyer has found some good cars at the auctions.
Instead of focusing on the figures, from a big picture persepective, Hyundai is getting new buyers, that's a good thing; Hyundai is getting luxury owners, that's also a good thing. Feel free to continue term the Genesis as a non-luxury car, especially since this may be the first non-luxury car (your term) to acheive such a high % of conquest sales from luxury brands
Some rose-colored glasses with a 'H' logo on them, perhaps?
There have been requests--actually more like demands--for evidence backing up numbers like this when they apply to Hyundai. So I think it's fair to ask for evidence for your numbers. And of course, as we have already been told, a quote by an executive from BMW, MB etc. regarding their conquest numbers is not sufficient evidence for this discussion.
So I'll turn your question around then, if 90% (my guess) of those that are out buying a Lexus are former Lexus/BMW/MB owners, how is it then that Hyundai's 40% is 'actually really good'.
The main difference here is that the 90% figure is your guess. The 40% figure was based on actual sales data, as explained to the press from someone in a position to know.
by this you mean auctionable BMWs/MBs/Lexii? Not likely. Largely because of the fact that these true luxo cars are so initially expensive, they do tend to be leased as this is the only way they can be affordable. A used BMW/MB more likely low mileage 'program' cars in excellent condition ((as lease cars tend to be) , auction cars tend to be high mileage cheapos, therefore more likely a Korean brand than a German one.
If you have the data to prove otherwise, I would love to see it.
It seems you are still confused by what the 40% represents. The 40% from the Genesis is a subset of the total 90% conquest Hyundai exec. mentioned in the interview.
You can't add both the % of repeated buyers and conquest sales together if you are trying to make a valid comparison.
Hyundai's 40% or 90% doesn't include sales from its current owners, the criteria you used does.
I think if people do trade in cars you'd see a lot of Avalons, 300s, Taurus/Five Hundreds, and other large sedans in the Hyundai used car lot.
90% is a high number of conquest sales, because you'd expect a lot of them would be upgrading from an Azera or Sonata.
Actually, the fact that only 10% came from within Hyundai could be seen as a bad thing - they may have a problem with customer retention.
Of course loyalty ain't what it used to be. You don't see a lot of dyed-in-the-wool fans of the brand like fintail very often any more.
Agreed. If there is any way to put a negative spin on any aspect of Hyundai's success to date with the Genesis, I am sure someone will do that.
10% coming from Hyundai could mean many other things, e.g. many Hyundai owners have cars like Accents, Elantras, and Sonatas, and might not be ready for a jump to a luxury sedan. Another reason for it could be that most Hyundai owners ARE satisfied with their cars, many of them are still probably under warranty, so these owners aren't in the market for a new car now.
Since one of Hyundai's main objectives (and perhaps THE main objective) with the Genesis was to uplift the brand and draw more buyers (and NEW buyers heretofore untapped) to Hyundai, I would say that the 90% conquest figure is very positive.
It seems the trend in recent times, as buyers are moving down largely due to the sign of times, and not up.
Perhaps it's too new, though, to have customers ready to trade for a newer Hyundai. It's only been out for a couple of years, right?
I wasn't trying to spin, just saying I'm surprised only 10% came from prior Hyundais.
I really like the interior. The leather is ultra-soft and the cabin definitely has an upscale feel that you don't get in the Santa Fe.
SF prices are so low, though, and most people aren't willing to spend the extra dough for a still-a-V6 Veracruz.
Sorry, being glib backfired again.
If you have a few minutes, we would greatly appreciate your participation in a quick (and fun) exercise on how best to organize our site information.
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E550 was not a replacement for the E55. E55 was the AMG tuned W210/211, E550 is simply the largest engined standard W211, replacing the E500. The engines are related only via manufacturer. E55 was 24 valve, dual spark - E550 is 32 valve single spark. Suspension and gearing in both cars are very different. The "latest" E55 is the E63, no car bearing the "E55" badge has been made for nearly 3 years. The E550 is tied with the older tech E55 in acceleration to maybe 100 where the old car will doubtless gain ground, while the kompressor knocks a clean second off a 0-60 time and will do the equivalent to other numbers.
Tell me when you've bought or tracked that Genesis
Racetracks are comprised of more than straightaways, however, and braking, cornering, and transitions are all aided by less weight - so I'm still not convinced your heavier E55 AMG sedan could better the Genesis Coupe on a track. Just my opinion, of course. Seems as if everyone here has one of those, and that's attested by the nearly two thousand opinions in this blog on the luxury market and Hyundai, which has still arrived at no concensus.
In order to arrive at a concensus, we would have to either (a) Precisely define "luxury car", or (b) Collect and tally opinions from Genesis owners that have owned cars that are widely accepted as luxury cars. "A" just isn't happening.
Even if Genesis sales numbers are excellent, and most of their owners believe they bought a luxury car, there will be people who reject them as a luxury car. It's not like defining beauty, which is 80% subjective and 20% objective. Cars have measurables that can be objectively compared quite easily. Again, I suggest reading the 84 Genesis reviews to the right of this page. They are eye openers.
Speaking of Hyundai and luxury...has the Genesis been sold to any fleets? I suspect the Azera gets that treatment, which impacts resale and makes them a used bargain. But it would be an unquestionably bad idea to do the same to the Genesis, IMO.
* Acura RSX, TSX
* BMW 1 series
* M-B A and B class, even low-end Cs
* Audi A3
etc.
you know that's funny that you mention it - I live in the 4th largest city in the country and spend a lot of time driving and in traffic - and have yet to see any flavor of Genesis on the road. If the Genesis is selling I haven't figured out where. But on a recent trip, to SoCal saw my first V8 Genesis, a taxi cab working out of Bob Hope Airport in Burbank. Looked really really superior when compared to all those CVs and TCs.
A taxi? That's a pricey cab...I wonder if it was a wrecked and rebuilt car or something. Who'd buy a top of the line car and make it a taxi? There's a market Hyundai could try to compete in, the large and utilitarian/heavy duty segment. Probably not the highest profit margins, and the cars will not be viable outside of NA...so I don't imagine they'd do it.
The MB's aren't selling here.
In some parts of the world where they can be bought dirt cheap, the clunky, Iron Curtain-style MB's are used as taxi's.
MBs used as taxis were made with spec levels mostly never seen here - smallest engines, basic interiors, no creature comforts. Remember, it was not always a "luxury" brand, that's essentially a creation of American marketers.
The black Genesis 4.6 sitting in a line that also included black Town Cars and the traditional 'yellow cab' Crown Vics. Cost wise - don't imagine a whole lot of price difference OTD between the Genesis and the Town Car. Cabs do seem to be getting a bit more upscale and do remember that MBs seemed to be the cab of choice in Hong Kong.
Noticing how 'well' that Ford has screwed up the' Lincoln' badge, however, is there anybody out there under the age of 40 or so that thinks of Lincoln as a 'luxury' car? Cadillac, still yes, because it does offer some significant models that you can't get from anybody else at GM (CTS, STS), Lincoln OTH a champean rebadger and proof IMO that the term 'luxury car' is about more than simply an options list and/or some nice leather.
Thank you! In fact, it's ALL created by marketing, and fanciful owners that think luxury isn't measurable.
The Lincoln note is interesting. Now that the brand equity has been so injured and the new models aren't getting the hype of Caddy, maybe the Genesis will take from that demographic too. It's a pretty conservative car, which was a key for the old Lincoln buyer.
Those MB cabs you see everywhere in Europe and even in Asia are pleather or cloth interiored cars with no gadgetry and lowline engines. They are bought on the old MB ideal of durability, no luxury to be found. Locals see them as ordinary cars.
Don't know what to make of the MKS. It looks like Lincoln made the same mistake as Acura did with the RL with no available V-8. The MKS just doesn't have the stately presence of a Town Car despite the Town Car being a big ol' dinosaur.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
With my own eyes, I've seen a good number of Genesis driving around town here, all privately owned.
I would think the chances of spotting a car increase with the higher % of vehicles sold to fleet.
PS: Genesis takes home another Car of the Year award; this time the Canadian Car of the Year.
PS2: This week the Genesis coupe actually took the spotlight from the sedan - having released an attractive pricing range at the Chicago Auto Show, including the very affordable and tunable turbo4 R-Spec. At least one automaker is listening to the enthusiasts.
How many R-8's and Enzo's were sold in 2008-09?
Take the shades off and you'll see a lot more Genesisisisiszz. :P