Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I washed and waxed it every other day and babied it like crazy!

    Your comment above just triggerred a thought of what my poor wife has to put up with. Yesterday we drove 80 miles west from our little town of Willcox, AZ, to Tucson, to visit Jim Click Mitsubishi and pick up a paintstick. For minor paint touch-ups. OK fine, we bought the stick and then I hop back in the car.

    She then has to endure the comments about the Tiburon's and Lancer's sitting all over the lot there. Jim Click Hyundai is right next to/combined with Jim Click Mitsubishi. Way back about 2002, oh, July or August I had test drove a white 2003 Hyundai Tiburon 5-speed. Drove it home from Bellingham, WA, to our home in Burlington, WA.

    "Honey, remember when the Hyundai dealer in Bellingham let me actually take the white Tibby home overnight?"

    "Yes, I remember," she replies, with that tone that says basically "can we not get in to a discussion about cars you love so much." Again!

    BYW-I saw some Veracruz's yesterday from the rear and they looked cool. After some more gibberish about Hyundai's and the fact that I like my Lancer GTS from Mitsubishi better by far than I ever liked a Tibby from Hyundai (I'm a kid in a candy store anywhere near a car dealer and in this case two of my favorite brands are back-to-back next to each other :P ) we tool off to the car wash.

    I had just washed my Lancer at our Willcox home Thursday but like usually happens in the Arizona sun and wind some dust had already caked on the Rally Red finish.

    "Hone, as soon as we hit the car wash on Grant we'll be free to go do whatever we want in Tucson." Long pause.

    "K," she utterred.

    After some contemplating about whether or not I would get $17 in change back from our $20 dollar bill I fed in the bill and out popped 17 ones from the machine.

    "Cool...I can always use $1 dollar bills!"

    Out we popped from the car wash, all shiny and Rally Red new once again. The side mirrors needed a pop back to normal. They always get pushed back during the car wash there on Grant.

    "OK, let's go find someplace to chow!" I barked as we pulled out on to Grant Avenue, one of the busy, main east-west arterials in Tucson. And off we went.

    My point in stating all of this is the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS just had to be babied to the max before our primary needs could even start to be met after our 80 mile cruise in to Tucson! Your comment just reminded me of the babying I give my car. ;)

    BTW- speaking of their being room in the luxury market for Hyundai, isn't the Veracruz considered Hyundai's luxury SUV? If so, it's appears there is room in the luxury market for Hyundai. Though I have heard the Veracruz doesn't sell in very large numbers for them.

    m4d cow-yep, that '99 Sephia was equipped with an engine that liked to be gunned and revved. I remember blowing away Corolla's and Civic's with that thing time and time again. She loved to be pushed. That Violet Mist, 5-speed with no A/C or radio 1999 Sephia was the car that inspired my Edmunds nickname and the car that turned me on to South Korea's megamachine of automobile manufacturing, Hyundai/Kia. I like to get great value out of my purchases, and Mitsu, Hyundai and Kia all deliver value. Plus, even Mitsubishi offers the 10 year and 100,000 mile Warranty. Those three car companies can virtually take care of any of my future carbuying needs without even contemplating my navel for a second.

    Or how nice it is to have Dennis Rodman out of the NBA picture for so long. Thankfully he hasn't decided to go in to coaching. :P

    Now if only Barbara Walters would give us all a break and retire, too. :sick: For crying out loud, lady, how many long years are we going to have to endure your whiny-butt voice on TV?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think there's medication for that issue - someone must have inoculated me in my early childhood 'cause I never wash cars.

    And I think your wife needs to be surprised with some flowers to grace the Thanksgiving table, Iluvmysephia1. ;)
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,068
    someone must have inoculated me in my early childhood 'cause I never wash cars.

    My girlfriend says I absolutely have a problem. Mine is washed almost every week, the mats are shaken out almost daily and there is nothing at all in my trunk or outside of a storage bin inside. Actually... now her car is the same way. I told her no dirty cars in my driveway!!

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • craigmricraigmri Member Posts: 243
    Glad I'm not the only one with Automotive OCD ;)

    Craig
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The first thing I do when I buy a new car is key it. Then I don't have to worry about the paint or scratches anymore.

    I'd likely key a new Genesis on a shock absorber though. :D

    Clay bars are kind of fun to play with, I admit.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, the early Sephia engines were from Mazda--even the entire car was based on a Mazda design at one time, wasn't it? I guess I was thinking of the early Hyundai engines that were from Mitsubishi designs.

    Which to kind of get back on track... years ago, Hyundai had to source engine designs from someone else--Mitsubishi. Then starting in 2004, Mitsubishi (also Chrysler) relied on Hyundai for the base design of both I4 and V6 engines (Chrysler has dropped out of that alliance now though, since they are tied at the hip with Fiat). Quite a turnabout, and a reflection of the swift progress Hyundai has made in engineering, along with the Tau and the latest Theta DI designs. Plus Hyundai will be the first to offer a hybrid sedan (Sonata) with a lightweight lithium polymer battery in the next year or so. That would be interesting to see in the Genesis... a competitor for the Lexus hybrid sedans.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Glad I'm not the only one with Automotive OCD

    Far from it. Most people use the "10 foot standoff" test, and if their car looks OK, it passes. I use the "18" and squint in good light" test.

    My 2005 Sonata and 2008 Tacoma usually stay spotlessly clean. Waiting on a warm day to clay the hard water spots off the Sonata's paint.

    When you keep cars 8-14 years as I have my last 6 vehicles, you have to keep up the paint.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    There's a cure for Carcoholism? :surprise:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    No cure if you're born with it. Maybe we need another support group here to go with Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous.

    I guess we sort of have one, but maybe the fumes got to them; no posts for a year now:

    Zaino Car Polishes/Products--Your Experiences (Part 2)

    Collinite sounds pretty good.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Bit the bullet, took the low Hyundai trade-in value and got a real luxury car. Not going to say what though, but it is not a Hyundai.
    Hyundai has made lots of progress, but they are still not a luxury car and that is the topic of this Forum. Even with the Equus they will not be. I believe the dealerships are closer to it than Hyundai Corporate HQ in my experiences.
    Hyundai needs to stop introducing new models as rapidly as they do and correct the faults of the existing models. While every manufuacturer forum has complaints about its vehicles, very few have as many show up as Hyundai does here and elsewhere. Also, other forums generally have isolated complaints, whereas H. has multiple ones about same body system and multiple body systems.
    H. also has too many dealerships competing with each other rather than with other car makes. GM, Chrysler and even Ford learned the error of this.
    They are spending too much money on marketing instead of R&D and quality control and they are rushing new models to market too quickly. With the money spent on marketing and the low prices, they have to be cutting something somewhere.
    On the plus side, H is moving up and putting pressure on the Japanese and European makes and this has led to better cars from those sources, as well as better deals.
    Good news for some of you! This is my last post on this forum and I wish all of you well. I also wish Hyundai success.
    I am not going to come back or even read this forum again, so I will not see any comments that you make. Bye. :)
  • espo35espo35 Member Posts: 144
    " Good news for some of you! This is my last post on this forum and I wish all of you well. I also wish Hyundai success.
    I am not going to come back or even read this forum again, so I will not see any comments that you make."

    Well, I guess that answers at least ONE, seasonal question.....

    ...there IS a Santa Claus!!

    Take care, carolinabob!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Cold turkey isn't supposed to happen for three more days down here in the US.

    Anyone shopping this week? Supposed to be one of the deadest times of the year on the car lots - might score a killer deal on a Genesis.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, I scored a killer deal on a Cadillac DTS two years ago the day after Thanksgiving.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Anybody taking bets here? :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    How about we just try to stick to the topic, ok?

    Thanks.

    Turns out that the Genesis has direct competition:

    Straightline

    image
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I am actually shopping for a larger car to replace my Rabbit. Just got rid of our last (I hope) minivan, and are left with two smallish cars. Although the Rabbit is mostly for me, and DW likes how the Rabbit drives (and has trouble keeping her speed down), it's a little hard for her to get into and out of with her bad back. Plus we still have 2 kids at home, so a 4-door would be more practical.

    Anyway, I have been looking at gently used Sonatas. I have always liked that car (2006+) and almost pulled the trigger on one a couple of times in the past. Hoping to pick one up for a good price near the end of the year. If I can't find a good deal, I can wait. Anyway, I went to a Hyundai dealer to look at a Sonata and saw a used Genesis sedan (black/black 3.8 base model) on the showfloor. So I sat in it a bit. I was reminded what a nice car it is, even in base trim. I adjusted the driver's seat for me (5'10") and got in the back. Absolutely limo-like. Just needs the little TVs in the seatbacks, maybe a wet bar. :) Black interior was a little cave-like for my taste, though--I prefer something lighter like tan.

    Budget will not support a Genesis at this time... maybe when the kids are out of school. ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    IMO the FWD Cadenza/Amanti is "direct" competition for the Azera--assuming it re-emerges. And I didn't see that the Cadenza offers anything like the Tau--does it? But as others have noted, some buyers don't care if a car is FWD or RWD, or I suppose whether it has a V6 or V8. Or Lexicon audio or not. Or... etc.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Other news sources today say that the Cadenza architecture is all based on Genesis underpinnings, so that's where I'm coming from on the "direct" part.

    Here's the Car Connection blurb about it.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Car Connection has it wrong. It is based on an all new front drive platform.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That'll teach me to read the competition. :P

    Business Week at least calls it a luxury sedan.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Well, IMO, it is a really good looking design. Have to wait to see some reviews, etc. Being FWD is not a drawback for me. FWD, RWD, and AWD all have their pros and cons.

    Anyway, it looks like KIA is on the right track.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,505
    Stupid name, makes me think of "Credenza" or "Costanza". So, either a big heavy piece of furniture, or George.

    But, anything to replace that vomit-inducing Amanti , arguably the ugliest new car when it was introduced. Asian-bland is better than the worst mix of copied design themes in modern automotive history.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OK, then. The new Kia Amanti is a luxury sedan. But the Genesis isn't. :confuse:

    ;)
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    I'll have to go searching for the link/info but the platform this is based on is supposed to be the underpinnings of the next-gen Azera also. I'll find the reference and post it later. Have to go teach a class now, bye. ;)

    Having said that, here is a link...

    http://www.autotropolis.com/auto-industry-news/kia-unveils-2011-kia-cadenza-seda- n.html
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    the boys have done a good job on the new Kia Cadenza.

    OK, then. The new Kia Amanti is a luxury sedan. But the Genesis isn't.

    Don't tell me there's still some in here arguing that the Genesis sedan isn't a true luxo-vehicle?

    The Genesis sedan and the new Kia Cadenza are both luxury rigs. It's just that the Genesis model is RWD and the Cadenza is FWD. Also, Cadenza reminds me of the Cadbury candy bar...for whatever reason. Not to take anything away from it, though.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Don't tell me there's still some in here arguing that the Genesis sedan isn't a true luxo-vehicle?

    OK, we won't.

    But comparing a car to a Cadbury candy bar is a new one. In fact, that might never have been done before in the history of automobiles. Quite the day.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I just gotta keep ya honest here from the Southwest desert, man. :D

    No, over at the Kia World website I brought up the same point, actually more than once, about the Cadenza being a name that reminds my of the Cadbury candy bar. Of which someone on that site reminded me of the fact that that's a Canadian candy bar, no less.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Stupid name, makes me think of "Credenza" or "Costanza". So, either a big heavy piece of furniture, or George.

    LOL, kind of the same difference too.

    In other news, the new Ford is going to be renamed Festivus. There's a new Toyoto Cosmo due as soon as they can figure out why it keeps running out of gas on the freeway.

    We may have to open a whole discussion about Seinfeld cars. Poor Puddy - no more Saabs to fix.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Toyota is looking for a lawsuit from Mazda, then? I think Mazda has dibs on the Cosmo name...

    image
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Heh, figures there was one out there but I didn't search hard enough. :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    In other news, the new Ford is going to be renamed Festivus

    I've been waiting years for the Festivus. Some people like Toyotas, some people like Hyundais...but the Festivus is the perfect car for the restofus... :D

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,068
    Don't tell me there's still some in here arguing that the Genesis sedan isn't a true luxo-vehicle?

    We all believe what we believe.... I own one and still don't feel that it is. Not nearly exclusive enough with zero snob appeal. Recently a rep came to see me at the office and said I didn't see your Avalon in the parking lot. I said oh, I replaced it with a Genesis, as I point to it. "Pretty car, who makes it?" Hyundai. "Oh, things a little tough?"

    Perceptions are hard to change, remember? I know I made a smart decision and it is a great car, that I seem to like more now than when I first bought it. However, until some more time passes and Hyundai jumps into the luxury arena with the respect in the marketplace the Genesis is nothing more than an upscale car that competes with Avalons, Maxs, etc. Yes, it does steal some sales from the BMWs of the world. However, the economy sucks and many people have changed their spending habits.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Any idea what the rep drives? A Rolls no doubt. ;)
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I think the designer should be sued.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,068
    Any idea what the rep drives

    A company issued Impala. I don't know what his personal vehicle is. however, I think you missed the point. Hyundai (even though I personally believe keeps the J3 scratching their heads) still is looked at by many as a bottom feeding car company. Until the majority of the public realizes how good they are, thats the way it is. If I had a dollar for everytime someone said "you spent 35K on a Hyundai?"

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The Amanti - a Buick LeSabre with an E-Class front end and a Chrysler grille! :P

    I wonder if the Costanza would look a lot like a 1983 Chysler Town and Country convertible - a.k.a. "Jon Voight's car?"
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    said I didn't see your Avalon in the parking lot. I said oh, I replaced it with a Genesis, as I point to it. "Pretty car, who makes it?" Hyundai. "Oh, things a little tough?
    and we both know what a fine near lux sedan the Avalon actually is ;) - it too is no true luxury sedan, despite having a little bit of that 'snob appeal' that is a necessary component of a luxury sedan. The Toyota and the Avalon name both carry some of that appeal (and recognition), the Hyundai name as you say - zero on both counts. Not that it can't change. The Genesis name could elevate to some level higher someday, if Hyundai can isolate the car (separate dedicated dealers) from its more mundane relatives, while improving its own stature. Toyota - which can not be a lux brand (in this country) either - still has that high desireability quotient and quality name recognition but can only build luxury cars under a different name.
    Not because of any quality related concerns or as any sort of criticism of Hyundai itself but ANY company that sells a substantial portion of its products in the 10-15k (or even 20k) ranges is 'bottom feeding' and will fail as a 'luxury brand' just because of that.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Cadenza architecture is all based on Genesis underpinnings
    this would be another way for Hyundai to damage any luxury pretensions for Genesis branded vehicles - rebadging to some extent, as it minimizes the exclusivity and utlimately cheapens the brands. Look at what Ford is doing to Lincoln, once a true lux brand, now nothing more that spiffed up Fords - GM has done this for years with Cadillac and Buick.
    Might sell a few more cars, but not a one of them (Hyundai or Kia branded) will ever have an impact in the 'luxury' arena.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Oh, things a little tough?"

    You should have tossed him your keys. ;)
  • espo35espo35 Member Posts: 144
    Hyundai is aware of the "snob-appeal" issue with the Genesis. For the 2011 model, the Genesis comes STANDARD with a case of Grey Poupon.....
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,068
    Not that it can't change.

    It is and will continue to if they continue on the path they are on. From a truely business standpoint no one can argue the fact that their sales are up (by quite a bit) and just about everyone elses are down. As long as the increased volume doesn't hurt quality all will be fine.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,068
    You should have tossed him your keys.

    Yes, many people that have sat or ridden in it change their opinion pretty quickly!

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hyundai needs to have one of those traveling road shows where you get to drive on a track and collect some swag.

    Starting at Hershey and ending at the Concours d'Elegance at Pebble.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    very good - BUT it really doesn't need the Grey Poupon - for 2011 what it needs is a 'Genesis' dealer and some distance between it and the Hyundai dealer
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    As long as the increased volume doesn't hurt quality all will be fine.
    the Genesis (at least the V6 version) is showing pretty well but you have to wonder if all these sales won't effect what it naturally should effect - exclusivity - another component of what is a 'luxury' car.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,068
    They did something like that with the Genesis, also had a Caddy CTS and an E-class so people could compare them to the Gen.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I didn't miss your point. But I think the rep is missing something... like a clue. The guy is driving around in an Impala he doesn't even have to pay for, and takes jabs at someone for owning a Genesis. Sheesh. Maybe he's just jealous. ;)

    BTW, how do you know this rep is in the Majority?

    BTW 2, asking "you spent $35k on a Hyundai?" is different than not knowing how good Hyundais are. It's a very recent phenomenon that Hyundai offers cars in the price range of the Genesis. So I'm not surprised many folks wouldn't yet be aware of that. The Genesis ads I've seen don't highlight its price, for instance.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I can't believe this... first we read in some posts how the Genesis isn't selling well enough, compared with some competitors. Now we see how too many Genesis sales would be bad also.

    The Genesis, including the coupe, had just under 18,000 sales YTD through October. Compare that to the E Class and 5 Series, each with about 33,000 sales YTD. It looks like either those cars are selling too well, i.e. harming their exclusivity, or Hyundai has nothing to worry about re sales volume for quite awhile.

    Re "Toyota - which can not be a lux brand (in this country) either - still has that high desireability quotient and quality name recognition..." ... I heard two news reports in the last 24 hours that put new perspective on the "name recogition" of Toyota. And it's not wrt quality. The first was a TV news report on how 2001-2003 Tundras are literally falling apart--frames are corroding away. Probably a recall coming soon on that one. The second was a news report on the recall of 3.8 million Toyotas to replace their gas pedals. Ok, so that's not as much a quality thing as a design-flaw thing. But Toyota did get a lot of press/recognition out of those two recent events. ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I took part in that event in Minneapolis in August 2008. Drove the 3.8 and the CTS (a $50k unit) back-to-back. Genesis won hands-down in handling and wet traction, also has a much bigger back seat of course.
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    Since Hyundai is regularly accused (ignorantly) of being unoriginal and mere borrowers of other makers' design themes, I thought it interesting that the rear quarter panel of the M35 hybrid looks a lot like that of the new Equus:

    http://www.hybridcars.com/infiniti/m35%20hybrid/photo/26156

    http://www.hybridcars.com/files/imagecache/full_502/files/graphics/ininity-m35-h- ybrid-rear.jpg
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