You keep harping about "Toyota Posters" making derogatory remarks about other automakers when you do the exact same thing!!!! Stop being so hypocritical!!! :confuse:
I am sure the stockholders would like to know which models are not performing well. Don't you agree?
Don't get too smug about that question if I were you. You'll have to ask the stockholders. Neither you nor I can say what they might think........altho'......I'm pretty sure they're not going to complain about the annual report results---and what appears to be a pretty good dividend. That web page you posted also includes financial results for the past fiscal year. Pretty impressive, I would say!!
Now, where do the "Half truths" appear in that blurb??
PS. As far as your rights to speak your mind goes, that's fine with me and I'm sure what the forum allows, but---let's just be honest about what is said.
OK, Lexus Division Lexus passenger cars reported best-ever June sales of 17,457 units, an increase of 6.1 percent over June 2006. Passenger car sales were led by the ES 350 luxury sedan with June sales of 7,232 units. The all-new LS 460 and LS 460 L reported combined sales of 2,631, an increase of 149.9 percent over last June. Combined sales of the IS 250 and IS 350 posted best-ever June sales of 5,182 units, up 11.9 percent over the year-ago month.
Lexus Division light trucks reported June sales totaling 11,412 units. The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined June sales of 9,349 units. The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,562 units for the month, up 26 percent over last June.
Both the RX350 and ES350 were in negative sales territory compared to last year June sales. Would you have gotten that from the preceding report? I consider that a half truth. I am not saying that other auto makers would not do the same. This it Toyota, the one that is supposed to be the leader of the free world of auto makers. So should be held to a higher standard. In the past they would post a spreadsheet with actual numbers and the plus or minus for the YTD and same month last year.
I sell Toyotas. Been doing so for the past 10 years so you could say I'm a Toyota supporter. First let's clarify a couple of things that have been posted in this thread. 1. oldguy70 is correct in his statement that sales from the manufacturer to the dealer are counted as sales by the manufacturer. All auto manufacturers do this in the US. 2. british rover stated they are not considered sold until reported to Land Rover. This is not quite right. They are not considered sold at the dealership level until reported to the distributor which may be referred to as Land Rover or whatever manufactured we are talking about but in reality it's the distributor. RDR's are Retail Delivery Reports and are reported to the distributor when the vehicle is sold to a retail customer. RDR's are what the distributor uses to determine the dealers next month's allocation of vehicles. 3. The sales report you linked is actual sales to consumers as they are reported from the dealers to the distributors to the manufacturers and tallied up at month's end. 4. That'll be the day when the manufacturer's cut their profit margins. Once they ship the car to the dealer they get their money. They only care that the dealer order more cars and they can only do that by moving the ones on the lot. This is when rebates and other incentives come in. So that the factory can unload more cars to the dealers. :shades: Mackabee
I have never said I liked Toyota. What caught my attention was the title of the thread. You see I find Toyota to be OFFENSIVE on several levels. That and I like to give the fine Dr a chance to sharpen his posting skills.
I am sure you can find a thread where everyone agrees and the last post was in 2005.
I do hope all of you are having a fine FOURTH of JULY!! Now that is something we can all agree upon I would hope. I have to go get the grill hot for those that are coming over to watch the fireworks.
Lexus Division light trucks reported June sales totaling 11,412 units. The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined June sales of 9,349 units. The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,562 units for the month, up 26 percent over last June.
Both the RX350 and ES350 were in negative sales territory compared to last year June sales. Would you have gotten that from the preceding report? I consider that a half truth. I am not saying that other auto makers would not do the same. This it Toyota, the one that is supposed to be the leader of the free world of auto makers. So should be held to a higher standard. In the past they would post a spreadsheet with actual numbers and the plus or minus for the YTD and same month last year.
The problem with this is Lexus is competing with Lexus. Can you name the 2nd best-selling luxury SUV? Neither can I.
If you set a record last year, and this year you sold 8% less, is it a bad year? Should you be scrutinized for not setting another record? I don't think so.
I think that success could be what causes them the most problems. with a rapidly falling yen, a democratic congress, and possibly a democrat in the white house in 2008 (think pro labor, UAW), I could easily see a backlash against foreign cars and the introduction of some tarrifs. with the overall dissatisfaction with the current lopsided trade agreements, countries like japan's unwillingness to completely open up, It could very well happen.
As for diesel's, I'm skeptical that they'll ever catch on in a big way. There's a premium on them, can be difficult in the cold, have less power than a similar gasoline car, and diesel fuel is (ATM) higher than gas in many areas. increase demand for diesel by adding a couple million more diesel vehicles, and who know how high it would go.
Yeah, but you have to know how to decipher it. Just looking on paper the Scion xA and xB had a terrible time! What the report doesn't tell you is we were sold out on the lot of xB's in May. The redesigned 2008 xB hit the lot in mid May and it's a HIT! We are pre-selling every one we get and I'm sure Dr. Fill's dealership is doing the same. The xA is also redesigned and won't be on dealers lots until August. So the numbers don't tell the whole story. :shades: Mackabee '
OK, you answered my last post. I do like the xB and might look for a clean used one with low mileage. I had plenty of headroom in the one I sat in. I could use a runabout for those 3 mile trips to the Home Depot, Lowes and the grocery store.
I am going to need to see a link to that rule regarding cars delivered to dealers are count as sold.
I see all the stats for Land Rover sales by model in the New England Market. I also see all the stats for our region and market as a percent of the entire nation.
Those are stats of vehicles RDR(Retailer Delivery Reported) either to a customer or punched as a Demo/Service Loaner.
The numbers I get match the nationwide numbers that are reported in press releases. One of my jobs is providing our market manager with weekly forecasts on how many cars we expect to sell. If you want I will email her tomorrow and ask her exactly how these sales are reported.
but I do agree with Gagrice that Toyota did get a free ride on offering a 5,083 dollar discount (the discount figure $$$ wise) from what I read on the Detroit news. If Mazda did that: offered a 5,000 dollar the Japanese Big 2 fans would diss Mazda in some sort of way. Keep in mind I like Honda too but the dissing of Mazda from Honda and Toyota fans I get in disbelief when I here people diss Mazda. Mazda makes some nice cars I think that deserve a look.
Also Gagrice said that Ford outsells Toyota thats wrong because if you take out Volvo, Jag, Rover and Aston Martin sales figures I think Toyota outsells Ford.
I was repeating what was said in the news about Ford selling 39k more than Toyota this quarter I believe it was. I think that Toyota counts Lexus and Scion in their numbers.
I am sure we would agree on other things in the real world.
"Aston martin sales aren't counted for Ford as Ford is not the majority owner of Aston Martin anymore."
Oh ok so only Volvo, Jag, and Rover are counted in Ford's NA sales now and not Aston.
"Toyota shouldn't count Scion sales then."
Well why shouldn;t Toyota count Scion in its sales totals? Afterall Scion is not a foriegn subsidarary of Toyota like Volvo or Jag is too Ford.
"Do they count lexus sales in the overall total?"
Yes they do but a sales chart like on autochannel will give you a breakdown model by model on a brand by brand basis in each they would list on how each Toyota and Lexus vehicle sold sales wise and than they would add Toyota's and Lexus's brand total sales up to give you Toyota's total sales numbers for that indvidual month and year. The autochannel lists how many Lexus's total SUVS and cars(how each segment sold seprately) and they do the same for Toyota's brands car and trucks as well in listing each segement seprately(cars and trucks.)
With all the partial ownership of the different nameplates it is difficult to determine who gets what. I know there is some non USA brand that sold 420k units and it is owned 49% by GM and was not counted in the race for who is biggest. I think the best way to say who is best is by return on investment. Who made the biggest percentage of profit. We know that leaves the Big 3 out for sure.
I am not misleading anyone on this. Like I've already said, talk to an accountant. Sorry to dispel your attempt to discredit, but that's the way it is--these rules apply to any manufacturer here. I can provide you with a detailled excerpt from tax and fiscal reporting rules, but I'm sure you won't accept it--and besides, it'll bore you to tears. Mackabee is in the business--see if his word is good enough for you--his earlier post confirms it. If that isn't sufficient, dream on.
If you're a Brit Franchise--things are a little different for Brit reporting--their accounting systems call for a 13 month fiscal year. But that's OK--the sun never sets on the Empire--right?
Biggest percentage profit--year on year? BMW North America, and Mercedes North America!! How'd they do it?? Good old marketing imagery elicits obscene markups. And our obssession with status is the catalyst. Those guys are really good at it.!!
I am not trying to discredit anyone I am just explaining it as I have seen it on our own sales reports.
You obviously didn't read my post if you think I am in England as I said my market was in New England and referred to my region as the North East.
I mean I know we have received about the same number of LR3s from Land Rover this year as last year but LR3 sales are down 30 something percent.
Also I know many years ago they used new car registrations to measure month to month sales.
And honestly I don't care who is the biggest manufacturer. I am in high line sales and we don't do volume. We do less just a bit over 200,000 sales a year for the whole world.
Biggest percentage profit--year on year? BMW North America, and Mercedes North America!! How'd they do it?? Good old marketing imagery elicits obscene markups. And our obssession with status is the catalyst. Those guys are good!!
Do you have records to back your info on this post up? Nissan and Porcshe were the 2 most profitable auto companies I think a few years ago.
Porsche might be a close second, but Nissan? Not even in the running!! Sorry. BMW and Mercedes are way out in front--but they keep a low profile because they don't want folks to twig to those obscene markups! They aren't publicly held companies here, so they don't have to make public their fiscal results.................
Anyway--this has nothing to do with the topic, so let's drop it.
"What I meant was that if you don't count Volvo, Jag, Land Rover for ford then you shouldn't count Scion or Lexus sales for Toyota."
Yeah but my point was Scion and Lexus are not foreign subsidaries of Toyota like Volvo, Jag, and Rover are too Ford. Foreign subsidaries should not count in any car brands I don;t think.
"What I meant was that if you don't count Volvo, Jag, Land Rover for ford then you shouldn't count Scion or Lexus sales for Toyota."
Are Volvo, Jag, and Land Rover wholly owned subsidiaries of Ford? Scion and Lexus are fully owned by Toyota so those sales are counted for Toyota Motor Sales USA.
I find it entertaining to compare how a company is doing (profits) vs how an investor would do (buy low...).
I was nosing around at Schwab a bit looking at the auto sector and here's a brief summary:
Last 6 months stock performance for period ending 7/3/07 for the Automobile Manufacturers Sub-Industry sector (sector as a whole came in at +24.5%). Profit is for the last year.
DaimlerChrysler +50.7% Profit Margin +2.1% Ford Motor +25.4% Profit Margin -7.9% GM +29.0% Profit Margin -0.9% Honda Motor -5.7% Profit Margin +6.0% Nissan -8.9% Profit Margin +5.5% Toyota -5.4% % Profit Margin +7.0% Volkswagen +45.6% Profit Margin +10.4
Profit margin for the sector was -2.0% for last 12 months (net profit after taxes divided by sales for a given 12-month period).
I'm not sure what one can extrapolate out of this - probably is better suited for The Stock Market and Investing discussion.
This is the third time in two weeks I've seen this erroneous allegation posted without any substantiation. The most recent was by our old friend jreagan/VMax2007 over on ToyotaNation today.
As you said I'd like to see the verifiable and impartial references from which this goofy idea arose. As you and I both know it's the monthly RDR's that go to the manufacturer that denotes a sale and counts toward the monthly stats.
The post that you saw was incorrect. I'm certain it was not posted by an authoritative source. Likely it was just another poster with another opinion, which was wrong.
There are legalities and documents that have to be followed for both Federal and State tax reasons. Here is the key to proving it. Vehicle sales taxes are not reported to the state until a RETAIL sale is made. The state sales tax is determined on the final negotiated transaction price to the retail buyer not the invoice price nor the MSRP.
If, as that spurious poster seemed to think, the sale was made when the delivery took place to the dealer then the states would be clamoring for their tax monies on delivery not days, weeks or months later when a retail buyer took delivery.
Quite a lot of what's posted herein is opinion only.
I'm sorry my friend you are incorrect in your supposition. The auto industry has it's own very specific reporting requirements which are the RDR's which are linked to a state vehicle registration.
No Retail sale, No RDR, No state vehicle registration, No Sales Tax paid. That is the reality of the auto industry.
Now legally and accounting-wise yes a dealer does 'own' the vehicle in inventory, has to insure it as such and has to report it on the Balance Sheet and Income Statement as 'his' inventory. This is true of all vehicle manufacturers and as you say all distributors. But....the auto industry has very special rules regarding the reporting of RETAIL sales via the RDR system. This is what the monthly sales stats reflect.
...seems to be wishful thinking or actual disinformation being posited by some to explain away the surge in Toyota sales.
Last month when the Camry hit 50,000 units others on other sites were certain that 50% of those sales were to fleets. No way they could mostly be to retail buyers.
The jump in Prius sales is obviously a mirage since it only gets 32 mpg... ( all the 48+ mpg posters are lying anyway ).
There is no way that this ugly Tundra outsold the professional grade Sierra this past month. :surprise: It's got to be some other reason. It has to be.
If Honda makes good on their promise of a 2009 diesel Accord, I think they will gain back much lost ground. The diesel Accord has the potential for close to 50 MPG on the highway. It will directly compete against all the Camry models including the hybrid.
I agree I think that going the diesel route for it's midsized vehicles is a great strategy for Honda. If it's priced right and ( HUGE and ) they can do the convincing of the American public they will be alone with an equal and competing technology to Toyota's HSD.
I think 50 mpg in a vehicle the size of the Accord is stretching it but 40+ should be right there immediately. Then it will be Toyota's move to bring the TCH up and over the 40 mpg mark ( new EPA regs ).
As you may know, it was discovered that Camry sends much less than 10% of it's Camrys to fleets, as opposed to over 25% for a Hyundai Sonata, for example.
Toyota, overall, is at less than 10%, with trucks below 5%, and Corolla at the high mark of 16%.
Regarding the Accord Diesel, the Next Accord looks like a nice piece, and will take a small piece from Camry (25k), but more from cars like Altima and Sonata.
It will take at least two years for customers to get comfortable with Diesels, cars, and Honda together in the same sentence.
But manufacturers are turning to diesel, and customers will come along. It took Toyota 5+ years to sell Hybrid power. Diesel is starting from ground zero, from what I can tell, with car buyers.
Diesel production, performance, and demand has been marginal at best for several years now.
By the time Honda can get a level of success out of diesels, Toyota will be into their 2nd generation with Camry Hybrid power.
Competition is good, and Toyota could use the push.
I am wating on my rep to get me the market, regional and national data for Land Rover. I think she is alls screwed up because of the holiday because I normaly have the detailed breakdown by now.
The numbers she gives me are RDR sales plus in-cycle service loaners. I get the detail breakdown by model and by dealership for my market and then the model breakdown for the region and nation plus what percentages everything is of national totals.
Land Rover has almost no rental sales. You will see a handful of Range Rovers and LR3s at highline rental agencies but that is it. I am not sure what the percentages are but they are probably around one or two percent.
I don't think the hosts will want us to make this a diesel vs hybrid thread. Your article written by pro hybrid people is just rehashing old information. Much of which is inaccurate or out of date. The truth is hybrids do not sell in markets where diesels are available. Toyota has a captive audience in states like CA. You better enjoy the sales boom in the Prius and TCh while you can.
The diesel vs. hybrid mileage/cost gap widens further. And the “clean” diesel’s just-barely compliant emissions still can’t touch the gas-hybrid’s practically breathable exhaust.
If you believe that lie from the article, why not park your Prius in a closed garage and keep the engine running. You will find out quickly how dangerous gas fumes are. The Prius puts out way more CO than a Jetta diesel.
So Honda may have figured out how to make it work here.
Diesels being more expensine that regular combustion engines doesn't explain away low diessl sales. Hybrids are more expensive too. They sell just fine.
What I believe is that diesel engines, for cars, do not enjoy strong word of mouth here. I believe demand is low, so supply is low.
I'm no expert on why cars with diesels aren't great sellers here, but my guesses as to reasons why are as follows:
They smell bad. They're noisy. They smoke. Not as many fuel stations carry diesel, and access is less than gasoline. Diesel fuel right now isn't much cheaper than gasoline--in fact at some places it's more. People don't understand them, and associate them with big rigs.
In time however,these perceptions will likely be overcome, and people will begin to use them more than now. Europe is a good example. When we lived there we had an old Mercedes diesel as a second car which had 200K miles on it (built like a tank!!) when we bought it. We put another 100K on it, and it never let us down.
What planet are you from? Demand for diesels is strong where they are sold. New diesel cars are banned in the largest market in the USA, CA. Ask one of your friends that sells VW or Mercedes how well they are selling in Texas. I have a friend here that owns a home in Dallas. He has an E320 CDI that he loves. Travels from San Diego to Dallas at least once per month. He says it is great going 800 miles on a tank of diesel. If he holds it below 85 MPH on Interstate 10 he gets 40 MPG. Does Lexus build a luxury car with even close to that range or mileage? You must have missed the X country comparison between the Mercedes ML320 CDI and the RX400h. The diesel beat the hybrid hands down.
Trust me Toyota would be building diesel cars, SUVs and Trucks for the US market if it was easy to get by all the anti diesel regulations in this country.
When was the last time you smelled a modern diesel from VW or MB? Have you driven either one? They are not like your old MB from the 1980s and before. The exhaust from my MB Sprinter and Passat TDI was less noxious than most of the gas cars on the road. Of course we have had ULSD in CA since 2004, which makes a big difference.
VW has been selling diesels for several years, and the buzz couldn't be less significant. Diesels haven't done much for the Touraeg.
Personally I do not need a 7500 lb SUV that will do 0-60 in 5 seconds. If they were to put a V6 TDI in the Touareg and drop the price from $60k down to $40k I would be interested. They only imported enough to qualify for racing in a stock class. You think ToyLex has anything close to that class of vehicle? If so name it and we will compare specs.
You can sell used diesel VWs in California for more then MSRP.
That is how strong the demand is since you can't sell them in the state new.
The cars have to have 7,000 miles or something on them and people actually make money doing this.
Lets not turn this into a diesel vs hybrid thread though. There are plenty of places for that. The ideal hybrid would be a diesel series hybrid. The little diesel engine could run at a nice steady 2,200 rpms or so all the time and be very happy.
Comments
you do the exact same thing!!!! Stop being
so hypocritical!!! :confuse:
Don't get too smug about that question if I were you.
You'll have to ask the stockholders.
Neither you nor I can say what they might think........altho'......I'm pretty sure they're not going to complain about the annual report results---and what appears to be a pretty good dividend.
That web page you posted also includes financial results for the past fiscal year.
Pretty impressive, I would say!!
Now, where do the "Half truths" appear in that blurb??
PS.
As far as your rights to speak your mind goes, that's fine with me and I'm sure what the forum allows, but---let's just be honest about what is said.
I was "Nah!"
DrFill
Lexus Division
Lexus passenger cars reported best-ever June sales of 17,457 units, an increase of 6.1 percent over June 2006. Passenger car sales were led by the ES 350 luxury sedan with June sales of 7,232 units. The all-new LS 460 and LS 460 L reported combined sales of 2,631, an increase of 149.9 percent over last June. Combined sales of the IS 250 and IS 350 posted best-ever June sales of 5,182 units, up 11.9 percent over the year-ago month.
Lexus Division light trucks reported June sales totaling 11,412 units. The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined June sales of 9,349 units. The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,562 units for the month, up 26 percent over last June.
Both the RX350 and ES350 were in negative sales territory compared to last year June sales. Would you have gotten that from the preceding report? I consider that a half truth. I am not saying that other auto makers would not do the same. This it Toyota, the one that is supposed to be the leader of the free world of auto makers. So should be held to a higher standard. In the past they would post a spreadsheet with actual numbers and the plus or minus for the YTD and same month last year.
1. oldguy70 is correct in his statement that sales from the manufacturer to the dealer are counted as sales by the manufacturer. All auto manufacturers do this in the US.
2. british rover stated they are not considered sold until reported to Land Rover. This is not quite right. They are not considered sold at the dealership level until reported to the distributor which may be referred to as Land Rover or whatever manufactured we are talking about but in reality it's the distributor. RDR's are Retail Delivery Reports and are reported to the distributor when the vehicle is sold to a retail customer. RDR's are what the distributor uses to determine the dealers next month's allocation of vehicles.
3. The sales report you linked is actual sales to consumers as they are reported from the dealers to the distributors to the manufacturers and tallied up at month's end.
4. That'll be the day when the manufacturer's cut their profit margins. Once they ship the car to the dealer they get their money. They only care that the dealer order more cars and they can only do that by moving the ones on the lot. This is when rebates and other incentives come in. So that the factory can unload more cars to the dealers.
:shades:
Mackabee
TOYOTA RETAIL SALES
[edit] Hey Mackabee, good to see you!
I am sure you can find a thread where everyone agrees and the last post was in 2005.
I do hope all of you are having a fine FOURTH of JULY!! Now that is something we can all agree upon I would hope.
I have to go get the grill hot for those that are coming over to watch the fireworks.
Both the RX350 and ES350 were in negative sales territory compared to last year June sales. Would you have gotten that from the preceding report? I consider that a half truth. I am not saying that other auto makers would not do the same. This it Toyota, the one that is supposed to be the leader of the free world of auto makers. So should be held to a higher standard. In the past they would post a spreadsheet with actual numbers and the plus or minus for the YTD and same month last year.
The problem with this is Lexus is competing with Lexus. Can you name the 2nd best-selling luxury SUV? Neither can I.
If you set a record last year, and this year you sold 8% less, is it a bad year? Should you be scrutinized for not setting another record? I don't think so.
DrFill
Mackabee
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=arCITDsM1kRw&refer=home
Visiting Host
I think that success could be what causes them the most problems. with a rapidly falling yen, a democratic congress, and possibly a democrat in the white house in 2008 (think pro labor, UAW), I could easily see a backlash against foreign cars and the introduction of some tarrifs. with the overall dissatisfaction with the current lopsided trade agreements, countries like japan's unwillingness to completely open up, It could very well happen.
As for diesel's, I'm skeptical that they'll ever catch on in a big way. There's a premium on them, can be difficult in the cold, have less power than a similar gasoline car, and diesel fuel is (ATM) higher than gas in many areas. increase demand for diesel by adding a couple million more diesel vehicles, and who know how high it would go.
:shades:
Mackabee
'
Now what is going to happen with Scion? I did not realize they were doing that poorly. I kind of liked the practicality of the xB.
xB just came out last month, so it's still ramping up. xD won't be out until Aug/Sept.
Scion will be fine.
DrFill
I see all the stats for Land Rover sales by model in the New England Market. I also see all the stats for our region and market as a percent of the entire nation.
Those are stats of vehicles RDR(Retailer Delivery Reported) either to a customer or punched as a Demo/Service Loaner.
The numbers I get match the nationwide numbers that are reported in press releases. One of my jobs is providing our market manager with weekly forecasts on how many cars we expect to sell. If you want I will email her tomorrow and ask her exactly how these sales are reported.
Also Gagrice said that Ford outsells Toyota thats wrong because if you take out Volvo, Jag, Rover and Aston Martin sales figures I think Toyota outsells Ford.
I am sure we would agree on other things in the real world.
Toyota shouldn't count Scion sales then. Do they count lexus sales in the overall total?
Oh ok so only Volvo, Jag, and Rover are counted in Ford's NA sales now and not Aston.
"Toyota shouldn't count Scion sales then."
Well why shouldn;t Toyota count Scion in its sales totals? Afterall Scion is not a foriegn subsidarary of Toyota like Volvo or Jag is too Ford.
"Do they count lexus sales in the overall total?"
Yes they do but a sales chart like on autochannel will give you a breakdown model by model on a brand by brand basis in each they would list on how each Toyota and Lexus vehicle sold sales wise and than they would add Toyota's and Lexus's brand total sales up to give you Toyota's total sales numbers for that indvidual month and year. The autochannel lists how many Lexus's total SUVS and cars(how each segment sold seprately) and they do the same for Toyota's brands car and trucks as well in listing each segement seprately(cars and trucks.)
Like I've already said, talk to an accountant.
Sorry to dispel your attempt to discredit, but that's the way it is--these rules apply to any manufacturer here.
I can provide you with a detailled excerpt from tax and fiscal reporting rules, but I'm sure you won't accept it--and besides, it'll bore you to tears.
Mackabee is in the business--see if his word is good enough for you--his earlier post confirms it.
If that isn't sufficient, dream on.
If you're a Brit Franchise--things are a little different for Brit reporting--their accounting systems call for a 13 month fiscal year.
But that's OK--the sun never sets on the Empire--right?
BMW North America, and Mercedes North America!!
How'd they do it??
Good old marketing imagery elicits obscene markups.
And our obssession with status is the catalyst.
Those guys are really good at it.!!
You obviously didn't read my post if you think I am in England as I said my market was in New England and referred to my region as the North East.
I mean I know we have received about the same number of LR3s from Land Rover this year as last year but LR3 sales are down 30 something percent.
Also I know many years ago they used new car registrations to measure month to month sales.
And honestly I don't care who is the biggest manufacturer. I am in high line sales and we don't do volume. We do less just a bit over 200,000 sales a year for the whole world.
BMW North America, and Mercedes North America!!
How'd they do it??
Good old marketing imagery elicits obscene markups.
And our obssession with status is the catalyst.
Those guys are good!!
Do you have records to back your info on this post up? Nissan and Porcshe were the 2 most profitable auto companies I think a few years ago.
Not even in the running!!
Sorry.
BMW and Mercedes are way out in front--but they keep a low profile because they don't want folks to twig to those obscene markups!
They aren't publicly held companies here, so they don't have to make public their fiscal results.................
Anyway--this has nothing to do with the topic, so let's drop it.
Oh ok so only Volvo, Jag, and Rover are counted in Ford's NA sales now and not Aston.
"Toyota shouldn't count Scion sales then."
Well why shouldn;t Toyota count Scion in its sales totals? Afterall Scion is not a foriegn subsidarary of Toyota like Volvo or Jag is too Ford.
What I meant was that if you don't count Volvo, Jag, Land Rover for ford then you shouldn't count Scion or Lexus sales for Toyota.
Yeah but my point was Scion and Lexus are not foreign subsidaries of Toyota like Volvo, Jag, and Rover are too Ford. Foreign subsidaries should not count in any car brands I don;t think.
Are Volvo, Jag, and Land Rover wholly owned subsidiaries of Ford? Scion and Lexus are fully owned by Toyota so those sales are counted for Toyota Motor Sales USA.
:shades:
Mackabee
I was nosing around at Schwab a bit looking at the auto sector and here's a brief summary:
Last 6 months stock performance for period ending 7/3/07 for the Automobile Manufacturers Sub-Industry sector (sector as a whole came in at +24.5%). Profit is for the last year.
DaimlerChrysler +50.7% Profit Margin +2.1%
Ford Motor +25.4% Profit Margin -7.9%
GM +29.0% Profit Margin -0.9%
Honda Motor -5.7% Profit Margin +6.0%
Nissan -8.9% Profit Margin +5.5%
Toyota -5.4% % Profit Margin +7.0%
Volkswagen +45.6% Profit Margin +10.4
Profit margin for the sector was -2.0% for last 12 months (net profit after taxes divided by sales for a given 12-month period).
I'm not sure what one can extrapolate out of this - probably is better suited for The Stock Market and Investing discussion.
DrFill
This is the third time in two weeks I've seen this erroneous allegation posted without any substantiation. The most recent was by our old friend jreagan/VMax2007 over on ToyotaNation today.
As you said I'd like to see the verifiable and impartial references from which this goofy idea arose. As you and I both know it's the monthly RDR's that go to the manufacturer that denotes a sale and counts toward the monthly stats.
There are legalities and documents that have to be followed for both Federal and State tax reasons. Here is the key to proving it. Vehicle sales taxes are not reported to the state until a RETAIL sale is made. The state sales tax is determined on the final negotiated transaction price to the retail buyer not the invoice price nor the MSRP.
If, as that spurious poster seemed to think, the sale was made when the delivery took place to the dealer then the states would be clamoring for their tax monies on delivery not days, weeks or months later when a retail buyer took delivery.
Quite a lot of what's posted herein is opinion only.
No Retail sale, No RDR, No state vehicle registration, No Sales Tax paid. That is the reality of the auto industry.
Now legally and accounting-wise yes a dealer does 'own' the vehicle in inventory, has to insure it as such and has to report it on the Balance Sheet and Income Statement as 'his' inventory. This is true of all vehicle manufacturers and as you say all distributors. But....the auto industry has very special rules regarding the reporting of RETAIL sales via the RDR system. This is what the monthly sales stats reflect.
Last month when the Camry hit 50,000 units others on other sites were certain that 50% of those sales were to fleets. No way they could mostly be to retail buyers.
The jump in Prius sales is obviously a mirage since it only gets 32 mpg...
There is no way that this ugly Tundra outsold the professional grade Sierra this past month. :surprise: It's got to be some other reason. It has to be.
I agree I think that going the diesel route for it's midsized vehicles is a great strategy for Honda. If it's priced right and ( HUGE and ) they can do the convincing of the American public they will be alone with an equal and competing technology to Toyota's HSD.
I think 50 mpg in a vehicle the size of the Accord is stretching it but 40+ should be right there immediately. Then it will be Toyota's move to bring the TCH up and over the 40 mpg mark ( new EPA regs ).
Toyota, overall, is at less than 10%, with trucks below 5%, and Corolla at the high mark of 16%.
Regarding the Accord Diesel, the Next Accord looks like a nice piece, and will take a small piece from Camry (25k), but more from cars like Altima and Sonata.
It will take at least two years for customers to get comfortable with Diesels, cars, and Honda together in the same sentence.
But manufacturers are turning to diesel, and customers will come along. It took Toyota 5+ years to sell Hybrid power. Diesel is starting from ground zero, from what I can tell, with car buyers.
Diesel production, performance, and demand has been marginal at best for several years now.
By the time Honda can get a level of success out of diesels, Toyota will be into their 2nd generation with Camry Hybrid power.
Competition is good, and Toyota could use the push.
DrFill
The numbers she gives me are RDR sales plus in-cycle service loaners. I get the detail breakdown by model and by dealership for my market and then the model breakdown for the region and nation plus what percentages everything is of national totals.
Land Rover has almost no rental sales. You will see a handful of Range Rovers and LR3s at highline rental agencies but that is it. I am not sure what the percentages are but they are probably around one or two percent.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=4039
DrFill
The diesel vs. hybrid mileage/cost gap widens further. And the “clean” diesel’s just-barely compliant emissions still can’t touch the gas-hybrid’s practically breathable exhaust.
If you believe that lie from the article, why not park your Prius in a closed garage and keep the engine running. You will find out quickly how dangerous gas fumes are. The Prius puts out way more CO than a Jetta diesel.
Diesels being more expensine that regular combustion engines doesn't explain away low diessl sales. Hybrids are more expensive too. They sell just fine.
What I believe is that diesel engines, for cars, do not enjoy strong word of mouth here. I believe demand is low, so supply is low.
DrFill
They smell bad.
They're noisy.
They smoke.
Not as many fuel stations carry diesel, and access is less than gasoline.
Diesel fuel right now isn't much cheaper than gasoline--in fact at some places it's more.
People don't understand them, and associate them with big rigs.
In time however,these perceptions will likely be overcome, and people will begin to use them more than now.
Europe is a good example.
When we lived there we had an old Mercedes diesel as a second car which had 200K miles on it (built like a tank!!) when we bought it.
We put another 100K on it, and it never let us down.
Trust me Toyota would be building diesel cars, SUVs and Trucks for the US market if it was easy to get by all the anti diesel regulations in this country.
When was the last time you smelled a modern diesel from VW or MB? Have you driven either one? They are not like your old MB from the 1980s and before. The exhaust from my MB Sprinter and Passat TDI was less noxious than most of the gas cars on the road. Of course we have had ULSD in CA since 2004, which makes a big difference.
Gagrice
So what is the problem then?
VW has been selling diesels for several years, and the buzz couldn't be less significant. Diesels haven't done much for the Touraeg.
Emissions are probably holding it back, but those tests will only get harder.
I don't see the enthusiasm you have spreading very far. Maybe it's just me? :confuse:
Maybe you can expound upon the lack of press on something that should help millions, at a time when they want such a product.
DrFill
Personally I do not need a 7500 lb SUV that will do 0-60 in 5 seconds. If they were to put a V6 TDI in the Touareg and drop the price from $60k down to $40k I would be interested. They only imported enough to qualify for racing in a stock class. You think ToyLex has anything close to that class of vehicle? If so name it and we will compare specs.
That is how strong the demand is since you can't sell them in the state new.
The cars have to have 7,000 miles or something on them and people actually make money doing this.
Lets not turn this into a diesel vs hybrid thread though. There are plenty of places for that. The ideal hybrid would be a diesel series hybrid. The little diesel engine could run at a nice steady 2,200 rpms or so all the time and be very happy.