Toyota is on the Offensive. Will it work?

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Comments

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Must have already gone. Nothing there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FJ Cruiser comvertible? Wild. Wonder how they will sort that out.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    But where will they run the wires that currently go through the roof? The supposed reason as to why the FJ does not have a sunroof is all of the electronics go through the roof instead of the floor. If they cut the roof off where will the wires go?

    Probably right back through the floor that isn't going to be waterproofed enough.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I imagine it will have to be changed rather extensively. I can't imagine the suicide door opening will allow it to be rigid enough.

    I bet we see some sort of half convertible like the old Sidekicks and 2 door Rodeos.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    2 door Rodeos Amigos
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think for one year they used the Rodeo name. Couldn't tell you what year that was.

    For most of the model run it was indeed called the Amigo.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    They pulled me right of the floor of the NYIAS many years ago.

    They really wanted to know hwat type of top they should use.

    Don't remember what I told them, but I got $50, so I must've got it right. :shades:

    DrFill
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They label it Rodeo Sport, sounds about right...

    image

    drfill - those marketing studies are profitable. I'll be in one next Monday, $150 for an hour or so at lunch time. Sweet. :shades:
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    As I've shown, I do good work, and give you value for your money! ;)

    DrFill
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Wow, great deal! How do you sign up? :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My wife finds these things. Look in your local paper, we get a Gazette that advertises for studies like this.

    Just avoid the experimental medical studies. :D

    I once did a Pizza Tasting Study, AWESOME!

    Had to eat 7 small pieces of pizza and offer my opinion, then they paid me $75. I'd have done it for free! :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I always wonder where they found the Aztek focus group members ... but I digress.

    mmm, pizza.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe they fed them free pizza, and at that point people will say anything to make the people interviewing them happy so they can get another slice! :D
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    than Pizza :blush: Pizza (along with Doritos, Cheetos, and other muchie food) cravings were merely the side effects for those Aztec designers... :D
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Looked like a giant Queche! :P

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Someone at Toyota must have liked the Aztec. The RAV4 is a lot like it. Maybe not quite as ugly. More of a sick bloated Aztec look. Midsized SUVs are a sick looking bunch of vehicles. Someone needs to bring back the clean classic lines of the 2000 Tahoe.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    GM killed that bird. Go kick them in their forum. ;)

    DrFill
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "For want of a piston ring costing $1.50, nearly 70% of Japan's auto production has been temporarily paralyzed this week. Analysts say the production shutdown will have a relatively small impact on annual earnings, as car makers can make up for the lost days during weekends and holidays." (sorry, Wall St. Journal subscription link).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would say with their largest nuclear reactor shut down indefinitely it will take time to get back up to speed.

    The Japanese operator of a nuclear power plant stricken by an earthquake earlier this week said Wednesday that damage was worse than previously reported and that a leak of water was 50 percent more radioactive than initially announced.

    For the third time in three days, Tokyo Electric Power apologized for delays and errors in announcing the extent of damage at the plant in this northwestern coastal city, which was struck Monday by a magnitude 6.8 earthquake. The company also said that tremors had tipped over “several hundred” barrels of radioactive waste, not 100 as it reported Tuesday, and that the lids had opened on “a few dozen” of those barrels.


    The Japanese have more serious problems than a piston ring. The truth is they knew about these faults in 1980 when they built the nuclear reactor. They decided they were inactive.

    The Asahi newspaper said inspectors had reportedly identified four fault lines in the area while conducting a geological survey before work began in 1980 but concluded that they were inactive.

    link title
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    RAV4 is doing fine. It sells a lot better than the old one did.

    So it seems like a lot of people disagree with your subjective opinion on the styling. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The CR-V and Escape are kicking the new RAV4s tail. Even with all the hype over the V6 power. I think Ford is the one Toyota needs to watch out for. They have 3 out of the top 5 selling SUVs in June.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    CR-V and Escape have been outselling the RAV4 for a long time now. Ever since the first year each of them came out, actually.

    The latest RAV4 that you find unattractive closed the gap a bit.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    It has two general problems, having sold them myself:

    1. High starting price (if you see one on the lot, expect to start at $23k)

    2. No incentives, and little mark-up for negotiations. It sells well, and I believe Toyota uses it as more of a profit center than a volume model. Highlander is more sold on volume.

    The Hybrid has definitely helped the Ford. Escape is up 3%, but this redesign pales in comparison to the Rav4, and the Rav4 is making up ground quickly. Escape is #17 in US sales, Rav4 #18. I KNOW Rav4 can make up 5k units in six months. ;)

    It won't catch the CR-V, doh. :(

    The Rav4 can do things the other two cannot, but you gotta pay to play. :blush:

    DrFill
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So, pick the Camry for best economy, Altima for best performance, and an Aura under no circumstances whatsoever.

    GM should be ashamed of that mileage. I bet a non-hybrid Altima does better than 24mpg. :mad:
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Should get 25-26 MPG, consistently, so you have to be over 30MPG to get some type of return on Hybrids.

    I don't think Toyota would've released a Camry Hybrid unless it was 20-25% more efficeient than the 4-cylinder, under any circumstances.

    DrFill
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    So, pick the Camry for best economy, Altima for best performance, and an Aura under no circumstances whatsoever.

    yeah pick the camry or the altima and in 18 quick years you will have saved enough gas to make up the difference in price.Sounds like a no-brainer to me :sick:

    We'll admit that it would take more than 18 years to recoup the price difference between the Altima and Aura in fuel-cost savings alone. (We're using the current average U.S. fuel cost, a rate of 15,000 miles per annum and the same observed fuel economy we achieved — 31.5 and 24.5 mpg, respectively.)
  • agc2007agc2007 Member Posts: 4
    GM's second-quarter world sales topped Toyota's, so there is some hope. I think Toyota's peak is soon. Quality issues are arising, customer service is having to be repaired after complaints, the negative publicity about product recalls is abundant, its product line is failing to standout (aside from the Prius and Tundra), and its Scion line is losing the traits that made it so attractive. The xB has been widely smacked around to becoming heavier and more expensive. The Camry failed to impress anyone except Motor Trend. Toyota's failing to make a noticeable presence in China, the fastest-growing market. Toyota remains a grand name for motoring, but I question company management's decisions for moment. I do think Toyota will recover from these setbacks and move forward to the No. 1 spot.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I wondered why the lack of gloating on this thread. So Toyota was a one quarter horse so to speak. I would think giving some of the highest incentives in the USA they would have gained more on GM this last quarter. I guess even giving cars away or dumping is no longer working. It looks like GM sold 100k more full size PU trucks so far this year than Toyota has sold Camrys & Tundras. That has to hurt.

    I don't think that China will ever allow Toyota to get very big in their country. They have a much longer memory than we do.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Camry sales rise.

    Tundra sales rise (faster).

    Pain or pleasure? ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    This is a down year for Toyota, no question.

    But Toyota's down years are the domestics Mardi Gras. :)

    What's important is Toyota hasn't gotten smug. They are working hard to improve, and stay in front of the pack. They know they have some things to work on, and that's what will fuel their ascent.

    Not that there are many places left to conquer.

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are a funny guy.....

    What's important is Toyota hasn't gotten smug

    Toyota wrote the book on smug. And Toyota dealers have written the book on arrogance with a little help from the Honda dealers.

    When was the last time Toyota gave incentives on the Camry in its first year of release? Right now they are selling very close to invoice. Does not leave much for the dealers. I think it is Karma for all the gouging they have done on popular models. You got to wonder if they will ever be able to sell the Tundra at a profit. What with $5083 on the hood they are looking like a fire sale in their debut year.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I NEVER sold a Camry with incentives. Not one.

    I was the Ghost Writer on smug at Toyota. Toyota had nothing to do with it. Buyers lump dealers into two categories: Smug or desperate. I vote smug. Shoot me. Always work from a position of strength. Always! If you want desperate, go across the street. I got what you need.

    Anybody, even you, can get a car close to invoice. Not exactly splitting the atom.

    Every Tundra sold is one less Silvy sold. Period. Pretty easy to sell against, actually. Money right off GM's bottom line. I practically have my hand in GM's pocket! :surprise:

    What is important is people want to see Toyota's invoices. They may have to settle for a domestics, doh. :(

    I make you laugh. I amuze you..... Funny how? :mad:

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Tundra is not taking the Thunda out of the GM PU truck sales. I think you already read the article posted. Most Tundras are sold to folks with the old Tundra ready to fall apart. You may have gotten a F150 owner or two. GM owners are smarter than being fooled by $100,000,000 ad campaigns and %5000 incentives. They know that will come back to bite em in the butt when they trade in.

    I am just going by Edmunds on the incentives for Camrys. Says $500 off after dropping the price close to invoice. Maybe buyers in your part of the country do not check Edmund's to get the latest scoop on the late great Toyota car company incentives. They want that number one so bad they would give away cars to get it.

    How are you funny?
    Your desperation to pull Toyota out of the doldrums is absolutely hilarious..... :D
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Than the domestics must be burning in the fire of eternal damnation. :cry:

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here is a little number for you to chew on. Every time Toyota sells a Tundra at below cost, GM sells 4.4 full sized PU trucks with just a small discount from MSRP. Cha Ching into the GM vault.

    You better get out on the lot. You gotta sell 20k of them puppies per month to make the king of Toyota in his castle happy. You don't want him to come to America with that big Samurai Sword and start chopping and hacking.

    Though he needs to with the horrible Customer relations ratings, Toyota dealers have.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    If for once you could back up your rhetoric.

    http://www.articleblast.com/Auto_and_Trucks/General/Toyota_needs_More_Discounts_- - - - - - for_its_Tundra/

    Last June, the average Tundra price or the price which customers actually pay including incentives has reached $33,605 according to Edmunds.com. The Santa Monica, California-based company also added that the average price for Ford's F-150s was $29,657 while for GM's Silverado 1500s its $29,151.

    I guess everybody's buying $40k Tundras for $35k? GM is blasting corks if they unload a LTZ! You've thought this out beautifully. ;)

    All this paragraph says is:

    "I try to get all the truck I want at Toyota, and then if it doesn't work out (the monthly payments), I'll get the Chevy."

    Toyota is making a tidy sum next to The General. No sweat. And sales are still rising. 10k in March. 13k+ in April. 17k+ in May. 21k+ in June. :surprise:

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'll bet you can sell 25k in July if you kick it up to $6k on the hood. All you are saying with the prices shown is the Tundra is overpriced. That and you cannot unload the piles of standard Tundras sitting on the lots.

    From your article:

    The Japanese automaker last June has began giving discount reaching as much as $3,500 for the 2007 Tundra that is four months after the truck was release for sale. Tundra's list prices range from $22,290 to $41,850. Edmunds.com has estimated that the average Tundra incentive that Toyota has given last month reaches $5,083 which is more than from what GM and Ford has offered for their large pickups.

    It proves you can sell ANYTHING if you discount it enough. Even a ugly Tundra!
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Well, I can't really fault Toyota to offer huge incentive in order to gain market share. Because one extra Tundra sold is one less F150/Silverado/Ram for the domestics. The mission for the new gen Tundra is to gain as much market share as possible so a loyal base can be established. I guess the worst part for the domestics is that Toyota has the money to throw around in order to achieve that but they don't.

    This reminds me of the arm races during the Cold War between the US and former USSR. Anyone remember the outcome...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Anyone remember the outcome...

    One guy blinked and another guy took all the credit. :shades:
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    We outspent the USSR on defense till we forced their economy to collapse.

    Reagan wasn't such a bad guy in the end at all.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This is not necessarily so.

    Because one extra Tundra sold is one less F150/Silverado/Ram for the domestics

    The facts are in. The biggest segment buying the new Tundra are previous Tundra owners. It looks like they did steal a few from the Titan. How many upgraded from smaller Tacomas etc? Dodge Ram has actually gained in what is considered a down market for PU trucks. That leaves a very small amount of turncoats from GM & Ford.

    How much is Toyota willing to spend to make the Tundra a success is the question? If they maintain the 20k plus sales for the next 6 months they will have reached their 200k per year goal. Time to sit back and watch. How many foo foo truck buyers are out there?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    You just don't get it...

    If those people do not buy Tundra they'll just go out to buy F150/Silverado/Ram (okay maybe even Titan but that's like a non-factor) regardless what they previously own. The fact that the new Tundra is doing better than the old one shows that not ALL the new Tundra buyers are coming from the old one.

    I don't know how much Toyota is willing to spend but all I was saying is that they can afford to because they are in much better situation than the domestics. The half-tons are the bread and butter for the domestics (especially GM and Ford), without it they are done for. However, as for Toyota, this is almost like a pet project for them. Regardless successful or not of the new Tundra, Toyota as a whole isn't heavily depend on it unlike the big 2.5. Thus any success with the new Tundra is Good for Toyota and that is an approach the GM and Ford don't have the luxury to have.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    How many disgruntled Ford/Chevy/Dodge owners are there out there.

    Things started out as just Toyota owners trading up, but now, as the trucks are hitting the street and word of mouth grows, domestic owners are getting the idea this is something to be looked at, and driven.

    And the ad campaign is very effective. :shades:

    When I sold, I was straight up, and said Toyota wants these trucks out on the street, to build word of mouth. Toyota's sell on word of mouth, not incentives. You're in the right place, at the right time. Toyota built a great truck, and they feel a need to push it, which is not generally the case at Toyota. Usually if they build, they will come.

    The full-size truck world runs on incentives now, so Toyota can play that game, they'd prefer not to.

    If the domestics want to throw money around, they can't say anything when Phil Hellmuth hits the table. They just got bought out of their own game. Who's fault is that? :surprise:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    An excellent post. That we are in accord, notwithstanding. ;)

    DrFill
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    pick the camry or the altima and in 18 quick years you will have saved enough gas to make up the difference in price.Sounds like a no-brainer to me

    By that logic just pick a non-hybrid Aura. Better yet a 4 cylinder Altima or Camry, which will probably get better mileage than the Aura hybrid.

    What's the point of a hybrid if mileage is lousy to begin with? It just plain shouldn't exist! It serves no purpose whatsoever.

    The other hybrids will use 50% less imported oil, and enjoy more range. Drive farther and you can find cheaper gas, I've found (*).

    -juice

    * I have a Miata (250 mile range) and a Sienna (400+ mile range). In the Miata, I'm always low on gas near home, at inopportune times. Gas is $3.23 in Potomac, only a few pennies less in DC, so that's what I pay. I've had the van since 5/22 and have not paid $3 for gas so far. It goes so much farther on a tank of fuel that I can afford time to shop around and find better gas prices.

    Range saves you money. About 10% in my case.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "It looks like GM sold 100k more full size PU trucks so far this year than Toyota has sold Camrys & Tundras. That has to hurt."

    Gagrice, I'm sure the Domestics would love for one of their mid-size sedans to sell as many units as the Camry does each year.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "When was the last time Toyota gave incentives on the Camry in its first year of release? Right now they are selling very close to invoice."

    So, did you take into account what incentives competing mid-size sedans that are going up against the Camry have? So they are selling close to invoice? I don;t see what the big deal is about that. Most cars sell for 300-500 dollars over invoice(depending on the dealer holdback) unless you are buying a Mercedes.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "GM owners are smarter than being fooled by $100,000,000 ad campaigns and %5000 incentives. They know that will come back to bite em in the butt when they trade in."

    I;m sure GM has to hand out more incentives to unload Cobalts and 07 Malibu's than Toyota does Corolla's. In addition your saying GM owners are too smart to be fooled by big ad and incentives campaigns well GM did give alot of incentives a few years ago to unload their cars off of lots but at the same time I do understand that the GM of 2007 has a different pholisophy than the GM of 2004.
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