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Comments
I've driven the IS350, and IMO it's under-rated. I saw one review where it was much quicker yet still more fuel efficient, and clobbered the Bimmer in most objective tests, yet it still lost the comparo.
My point is this - it's as if editors have to pick a BMW to win a comparo to earn respect in this exclusive club, preferably using words like "soul" and "teutonic", i.e. vague and subjective reasons for picking a car that loses on paper.
Why should Toyota (Lexus) invest heavily when these car mags are going to just pick the BMW anyway, no matter how good the Lexus is?
They're darned if they do, darned if they don't.
If they do, car mags still pick the teutonic soul using vague, subjective preferences to justify this. Editors will tell you do spend $8 grand more for a much slower car that is less efficient because of "feel".
If they don't, well then they're a dull, boring car company that doesn't make sports cars.
This isn't limited to just Toyota, either. I feel the same way about the M45 from Infiniti.
The German PR machine has managed to propogate this myth that the Japanese, Asians overall even, cannot build a fun car.
Examples of great Asian cars that still don't get any respect:
Miata - girly car. Never mind that it's the car you most see at any given track, it still doesn't get any respect. Yet the LAME Z3 with a generation-old BMW suspension did, even with the 1.8l engine.
S2000 - torqueless wonder. Never mind that high revving is what it's all about, and it can run circles around its more expensive european competition.
Supra - dyno queen. Makes more HP in labs then it does on tracks.
WRX - too "budget", cheap interior. That didn't matter in the BMW 2002, yet here it does. Now that the interior is nicer, they say the styling is ugly, yet it looks just like the BMW 1 series, which is beautiful because it's German.
Help me out, I'm sure you guys could come up with dozens more.
Fact is, the 'ring is in Germany and they have managed to perpetuate this myth that all great cars come from that part of the world.
Now the 350 does have tons of power but..... AUTOMATIC only.
Every other car in the class, even the C-class from Mercedes which is the king of Auto only vehicles, offers a manual transmission.
That more then anything else kills the car from an enthusiast stand point. A sporty sedan that doesn't even offer a manual is a non-starter for me.
I will agree that BMW gets the edge in a lot of camparos just because of the BMW badge. It is said that certain people will buy anything with a BMW badge. There is even a smiley for it...
Maybe this new X6 will prove that anything, no matter how ugly and stupid will sell with a roundel on it.
Just kidding. Sort of.
X6 looks hideous, you can see my comments on the Blogs here.
Even some of their M cars don't come with a manual any more.
You can get all of the M cars with a manual now. There was such an uproar in the US about the SMG only M5/M6 that BMW made a six speed manual just for the US Market.
No one wants a M3 with a SMG. The values for the SMG M3s are actually less then the manual equipped one.
So, there's one piece of anecdotal evidence to counter yours, LOL.
Sounds like a piece of junk.
I do sort of understand where Gagrice is coming from though - I was stranded all too often in a '74 Volvo and had another bad experience with a friend's new one on September 14, 1980, and I still hold a grudge against them 30 years later. Irrational, I know....
I still will test drive a Ford if I like it, though.
Where have I heard this statement before? That's right - from GM and Ford, to justify stretching out model runs and minimizing investment in new models.
I don't think that is a good strategy to follow...
Problem is, you may not make money on new small cars, but you can bet that happy Corolla owners from the past are buying Siennas, Camrys, and even Lexus models today.
Unhappy Neon and Focus owners are probably not buying more Dodges and Fords, though.
It matters in the long run.
The Corolla has aged, but it's still class competitive.
Mackabee
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mackabee
Enjoy your vacation and be safe with whatever you're driving.
Anyone who holds a grudge against a car maker because:
A. they got stranded on the road, or
B. they got hit with an expensive repair
is just wasting precious energy in a lost cause.
All Brands Of Cars Break Down Sometimes.
A car is just a collection of mechanical devices all joined together to work in harmony.
Mechanical Devices Break.
The car with 100% redundant systems which is capable of limping along to a dealership is yet to be invented, and if it happens 100 years from now, it will be so expensive that only the top 1% of richest people in the world could afford one.
as I was saying. Living in a metro area makes it difficult to drive and enjoy a manual transmission car. I gave up on my MR2 because of that reason, not to mention the old left knee cap began creaking!
Mack
How about lying in a sleeping bag under a canoe nursing a thermos of hot Tang while fighting hypothermia in blowing snow and rain after two long days of frigid paddling waiting for my friend to try to get his #%#$^# Volvo started at the take out ... can't I nurse my grudge a few more years?
Funny how those are the trips (and cars) that you remember.
For me it was a Ford Mustang with a cooling system that "erupted", spewing hot coolant all over my brother. After that the car was nicknamed "Volc", short for Volcano.
That has mostly to do with my personal preferences and precious little to do with the overall market strength of Toyota or its future prospects; in fact it's true that as a business decision abandoning manuals isn't a bad one for a company with no sport models.
It took three strikes for me to think about abandoning Toyota, and the manual shift thing is only one.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Don't get me wrong I like Subarus, my current company car is a forrester and it is a fine little wagon, but the AWD does add weight and complexity.
1. Not all brands break down at an equal rate. Differences in the number of problems among various brands was MUCH larger just seven years ago than it is today. Seven years ago is not that long ago.
2. Often, it is not the fact that the vehicle breaks down or has a problem, but how the dealer and the manufacturer respond. In 1988, my parents bought a brand-new Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale Brougham that had numerous problems right off the bat. But the dealer really did work with them to correct the problems (even regularly providing a loaner car), and today my parents still drive GM products.
By contrast, virtually EVERY VW owner I know has not only complained about mechanical problems, but dealers who seem not to care about fixing those problems. As a result, every one of my friends who at one point owned a VW now drives something else.
And Saturn, if it continues to sell mostly rebadged Opels, will continue to offer manuals in the smaller cars I hope. It's too bad there's no stick shift '08 Vue/Antara though. RAV and CRV having done away with it, I guess GM figured there's no demand, but I wouldn't have it any other way! ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Our friend drfill just mentioned that Toyota avoids puttng in manual transmissions. My point in response was it is a good thing because they do not know how to build a decent clutch.
Steve, I don't like Volvo either.
Mackabee
Looks like it's time to trade you!
Mackabee
Count me in the club!
Anecdotal stories about one type of car or another leaving you stranded is NOT ( I repeat NOT ) an indicator of the quality of the manufacturer of the car !!
By your logic, there is NO CAR worth a crap, because All and Every Single carmaker in the history of the automobile has left hundreds, if not thousands, of people stranded !!!
Like I said - a car is a series of mechanical systems working together, and in most cases when one crucial component fails, the car can and will not run !!
Oh, so you've never owned a Volkswagen then? :P
Hehehe, I would like you to do an inventory search within 1000 miles of your store and tell me how many manual shift Camrys you find. I'm not kidding. Ditto Solara, although I thought they had actually officially cancelled manuals in Solara? But ditto - please go find out how many there are available in the 1000-mile radius.
The first Toyota vans had a standard stick, but have been auto-only since 1990. The T100 had a stick, gone in the Tundra days beginning almost 10 years ago. The RAV had a stick until 2005, gone. The HL was introduced in Y2K, so it never had one because by then Toyota was beginning to get out of the stick business. 4Runner, gone after 2000. Tacoma D-Cabs? You could check for stick shift inventory on those while you are looking up the Camry and Solara.
I agree with what you say here:
"You have to realize that Toyota is big business and they are going to do what is best for their bottom line plain and simple"
...and I know that from a business perspective they can afford to drop the stick shift, so I'm not sure why you are making such a big deal of my comments, or pulling the "what a crock" comment. I agreed with you in the first place, and the lack of stick shifts is just one of the reasons I am beginning to shuffle away from the big 'T'.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, my experience with Toyota clutches has been nothing but positive, ZERO problems. 140,000 miles 89 Corolla, zero problems, 100,000 miles 99 Corolla, zero problems, 105,000 94 Corolla, zero problems, neighbor's 88 pick-up, 120,000, no problems, etc. etc. I am sorry, you either got a rare defect (can happen to all makes), or it was abused. Tearing apart and looking at it would tell the real story.
I am sure my son was not easy on the Toyota. He was not easy on the Fiat either. Both cost me an arm and a leg to keep running. So you can say that Fiat and Toyota are comparable in reliability. Does that make you happy?
WRONG.
Apparently MB is following Lexus' footstep to offer manual on the C300 only. The top of the line C350 has auto tranny only. Seems to me MB does agree with Lexus' marketing strategy.
We do have a bunch of 5 spd tC's in stock and ready for delivery.
Mackabee
...But I didn't tell you about it."
Mack: Can you provide any additional information concerning this sport coupe that you didn't tell us about?
It's a shame Toyota limits themselves to the vanilla market. Their 3.5 engine is a gem just screaming for the right application. :mad:
The valid point made above by larsb (thank you larsb) is that your two problematic ones are statistically insignificant.
Sorry, but that's the simple truth. You may think your cases are more important than anyone else's, but fact is they are not. The surprise expressed by others here who have had long-life clutches goes to show yours was the exception that proves the rule.
I realize a personal experience can sour you on a brand, but the fact is the Land Cruiser is legendary for its durability and reliability, and yours was an exception that doesn't change that one bit.
I believe the only thing that we can conclude is you were surprisingly unlucky with your Toyotas, statisitcally very reliable Toyotas at that.
That's the wrong car to search for a manual on, though. Try any of the Scions. You'll find them.
Fitzmall has 8 tC manuals in stock right now, for instance. Their only xA in stock is a manual, too, so ironically you cannot find an automatic!
They also have 10 xB manuals. So 19 Scions in stock right now with manuals.
Besides, if you count the number of people prejudiced against Dodge vs. Toyota, Dodge would win 10 to 1, and that's not a good thing.
The thing is... even if Honda has one lemon for every 100 lemons produced at Dodge.... Dodges lemon has 10 X more problems than does the Honda Lemon. So you get worse in quantity, and worse in quality.
C350 Sport standard with a short throw 6 speed manual
Right now Merc makes a C230, a C280, a C350 Sport and a C350 Luxury.
The 230 and the 350 Sport can be had with the same 6 speed manual.
I looked all this up before I made the post because I knew someone wouldn't believe me.
I figured you would at least get the model names right. Did you bother to do any research at all?