the only sure way to know would be to do some dyno pulls just before and just after the oil change; otherwise it could be just guessing on the "butt-o-meter", and/or the placebo effect. Ditto with fuel mileage. I personally have tested for better fuel mileage with SynTec, coincidentally enough, and I figure 3% improvement. I kept very good records and went through a few climate changes, so I think that's pretty good data (for MY car of course, not all cars all over the world). If you wanted to say 3% power improvement, I wouldn't argue with that either. Of course, that's probably within dynomometer statistical error, so there's the problem.
I don't think a dealer would whine about Marvel Mystery Oil, no. It's just an upper cylinder lubricant, (used to be called "top oil" many years ago) which modern cars probably don't need anymore like in the old days of wheezy flatheads and sloppy machine tolerances.
As a "top oil" it was supposed to go in the gas tank, as I recall, not in the engine oil. Essentially turning your car into a "2 stroke" (total oil loss system to get oil into the top of the cylinder).
Remember Marvel Mystery Oil ? That is what I used to flush with believing as you Larry, old ways die hard, but no longer do that. That was in an old muscle car with 50k on it that had not been driven in 3-4 years, only turned over by hand and then MMO put in the spark plug holes. Still have the car but now use it more and make oil change once a year regardless of miles I drive it (usually 3 to 4k a year))
I can remember back in the 50's, when you pulled into a station (they were full service at no extra charge), there were racks of bottled oil, no doubt re-refined, that were filled from a huge drum, sitting by the pumps. They were identifiable only by weight. No one much cared what the brand was. Oil was oil, which frankly, I think is still pretty much the case. If you wanted something in a can with a fancy name, you paid extra.
I think you can still buy re-refined oil . It's just dirty oil that's been filtered, further supporting what I've said before. Oil doesn't break down, it just gets dirty.
After reading pages and pages of this Forum I need to put in my two cents worth.
I drove a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe in Europe for over 10 years (325K miles) changing the Mobil 1 5-30 every 30K miles and the filter every 5K miles. Twice I burnt valves (160K & 240K) so had the opportunity to check cam and bore ware. Both were negligable. On the cam you could feel no ware and there was only a slight groove in the bore. This car had mods to boost the turbo to 20-25 PSI, K&N long filter, 3" cat back exhaust, etc. and was driven routinely at 100+ mph (the cruise control stops at 115 mph).
My wife ran a 94 Mustang Cobra the same way with 30K oil changes. I do it now with my Mercedes Diesel.
None of these cars ever burned more than about 1/2 quart between 5K mile oil filter changes. Change the filter and add a quart. I have over a million miles on cars without any problem using this method. I guess I have saved $8+K (Mobil 1 was $20/liter in Germany, love the $4-5 here in the US) over the years if I use $50/oil change & filter.
How did I come to this regime? First, a fellow engineer (petroleum) told me one night that the advantage of synthetic was that the molecules were very very tough to break and in the presence of heat they did not form sludge and further change to carbon coke (verified by the Olds/GM 350 test of 100 hours at 90% power). His thesis was, "How much do you want to spend?", and to use as thin an oil as possible because the thinner oil would lubricate further up the piston and further down the valve guides. The only issue to him was how much would he use as the shear strength of even the thinnest synthetic far exceeded petroleum oil. In all my research on oil, filters, oil analysis I found that the folks who used synthetic oil and oil analysis normally did not begin to see any problems until about 50K miles. Some did have wear before 50K, so I picked 30K randomly. I also looked at a by-pass filter but decided I did not want to bother. Also, there are oils that by law can be labled synthetic that come from a petroleum base. I chose Mobil 1 because it was a true synthetic.
I also put synthetic lub in the transmission, differential and wheel bearings. I had about a 0.5 to 1 mpg improvement. Driving at 100+ without the radio antenna up did about the same.
Even on a new car the company has to show that your regime was at fault if they don't want to cover items under warranty. The new MB and BMWs come with sensors that tell you when to change the oil. One of my friends in Germany bought a new BMW 3 series wagon and the change oil light came on at about 12K.
Being that my dad changed oil every 1000 miles this is a big change.
Gee with my range of regime of Mobil One 5w30, 15,000 up to 25,000 miles for a VW Jetta TDI, Mobil One 5w40, you make me feel like a belt and suspenders kind of guy.
Do all of you really think that going a year or more, just installing a new filter occasionally and adding oil when it's low, cause damage to your motors? Doesn't say much for the motor. Means engines are getting worse, not better.
"Well essentially engines took a real "step forward" so to speak with the switch to unleaded fuel. Of course it took from the late 70's to early 90's to implement the current efficiency (or lack there of, in some cases).
"Well essentially engines took a real "step forward" so to speak with the switch to unleaded fuel. Of course it took from the late 70's to early 90's to implement the current efficiency (or lack there of, in some cases).
But really; Internal combustion engines have changed very little, as far as the internal workings go, since their inception. Cranks and cams still spin, pistons still run up and down in their cylinders etc. Most of the "improvements" are external, i.e. computerization, emission controls (still not convinced that does any good) fuel injection and so on. And of course the fuel. The basic functioning is the same as has been forever.
I am glad you understand my points! Also I personally have gone from 1.5k to MAX 3k OCI's to up to 25,000 mile OCI's. So while the ICE is "the same" I'd much rather have now that before!!
My first car was a '48 Ford 4-door sedan. It was only 8 years old and a piece of crap. But it was my piece of crap, and that's all that mattered. Flat-head V-8, 2-barrel carb with dual exhaust and 3-speed column shift. By today's standards it would have not been allowed on the road.
The quality and technology of today's cars have improved dramatically over the years. But, pull the heads off the engine of any modern engine and it would look just like my '48 Ford. Well, close.
I just got a new 05 and would it be ok to start useing full syn.on the first oil change around 3ooo miles? It is a 3.7 and was thinking about Mobil1 or castrol syntec.Any ideas? thanks
NO, NO, not me with the kerosene. Last I knew Marvel Mystery Oil was not considered kerosene
Seems that my use of a mixture of kerosene and oil to flush the oil pan has spooked lots of people. I wonder if they have any basis in experience.
I now have several thousand miles on that flush and my oil is still clear and clean, and I haven't experienced the "horrors" I've heard of. This isn't the first time I've done this. Never had a problem.
Of course if you change the oil as often as the "experts" say you should (you know; the ones sleeping with the oil companies), there still comes a day of reckoning; the sludge will show up sooner or later. :P
Kerosene is a solvent basically and washes the engine clean of any protective lubrication. It's really not a good idea as it is not a lubricant.
Kerosene has been used in dire emergencies, such as starting combat tanks in sub zero weather, but it's a risky business and I'm sure would void your warranty immediately on your engine should it suffer any bearing damage.
but it's a risky business and I'm sure would void your warranty immediately on your engine should it suffer any bearing damage.
I'm sure the risk is great if all there was in the crank case was kerosene, but I used a 50/50 mix with oil. And, I only let it idle for 30 minutes. I've done this many times over the years with other cars and never experienced any problems. It really works quite well.
I'd never personally recommend the use of a solvent in a modern engine---I haven't the scientific background to insist that it is actuallyharmful, but let's say it is totally harmless. It's still IMO a waste of time and money.
Why? Because engines will run up very high mileages with never having had a flush.
I think kerosene flushing is basically more like a placebo...it feels good and I understand the appeal of being the caretaker, but I can't think of one good reason to do it on a modern car (presuming you are fastidious about oil changes and use quality products.)
The argument is that kerosene has some oil in it and is thus a lubricant of sorts, but what better lubricant than oil itself?
I'd much prefer someone flush with cheap non-detergent oil if flushing is what you are trying to accomplish safely.
While we all "self insure or warrant" to one degree or another, I would not put kerosene in any of my modern engines. If only for the fact that almost all my engines hold back some oil during an oil change. The real clue is in the technical data; i.e., dry fill: 5 qts, oil change fill: 3 quarts. Basically what this means is you will have some % of kerosene circulating in the engine. As you do subsequent oil changes, this will of course dilute the % of kerosene. Also there is not a lot of data as to how kerosene affects effects the chemical properties of a modern day oil blend: most importantly: ENGINE.
I'm having a very difficult time understanding why one would even bother. I mean, thirty-five years ago I dove into any number of engines that were so cruded up inside that some sort of a solvent to clean that junk out certainly couldn't have hurt. Fast forward those thirty-five years and what do we have instead? Unleaded fuel and high quality synthetic oil. So? With the advent of unleaded fuel, owners were then able to safely use fully synthetic oil in their engines (synthetic oil has been proven completely incapable of holding lead in suspension). With a true fully synthetic oil in the crank case, there is no ability for any deposits of any kind to build up in the engine. None, zero, zip, nada.
So, if you want a clean engine, skip all of the gimmick flushes (commercial flushes) as well as the gizmo flushes (kerosene, ATF or any other such back yard mechanic solution) and simply use synthetic motor oil.
Kerosene also made a great car wash. Or am I thinking of stove oil?? Either way, when I was stationed in France while in the air force, I used about a cup of kerosene/stove oil in a bucket of water. After rinsing, wipe with a towel. It leaves behind a fine film that that has a nice sheen and protects the paint. It would get down behind the chrome and other places and prevent rusting, or at least prolong the inevitable.
That was then, before today's modern paints and clearcoats. I like the new coatings much better. :shades:
Actually in the real old days (1920s--1940s) they used to wash even the finest automobiles like Packards and Pierce Arrows with gasoline and then rub them off with hot soapy water.
is noted, I would NOT replace dino or syn oil in the crankcase with either lamp oil or vegetable oil, unless you intend to "fry" your engine... :P :P :shades:
Saturday night, 11:10 pm, and here I am posting edmunds when I should be sleeping...
I gotta tell ya, with that comment above, I really slay me... :shades: :shades:
I'd give a BIG ditto on your post!! I have been using (synthetic) Mobil One oil for the better part of 743,000 miles and WITH 15,000 mile oci's with cheap filters. (no special ones like WIX, Mobil, etc.) All the vehicles have had NO sludge!!
Yet folks are endlessly fearful about using synthetic oil or even going past 3/5k on their conventional oil OCI's. Just seems like a waste of time, money, effort, and resources to do any less than 15,000 mile OCI's. Oh well.....
Just seems like a waste of time, money, effort, and resources to do any less than 15,000 mile OCI's. Oh well.....
Couldn't agree more. Especially with the cost of synthetic lubes. I still advocate changing the filter once in a while and topping off the oil. Change it rarely, like maybe once a year, if that. If synthetic lubes are as wonderful as has been touted here, there should be no problem.
"If synthetic lubes are as wonderful as has been touted here, there should be no problem."
A few hours ago I changed the oil on my current mount which has just over 100,000 miles on it, all but the first 5,000 miles on Synthetic Oil (Mobil-1 to be specific). For the duration of the warranty period I kept to the 7,500 OCI, and since then have averaged more like 12,000 miles between oil and filter changes. Today, as I peeked into the rocker cover and took a good look at the rockers and the rocker shaft, I saw nothing but perfectly clean oil covered metal. Period, full stop, the end. Oh, this last OCI was 12,000 miles and did require another quart to be added at about 8,500 miles. Not too shabby
The only problem that I've ever experienced with Synthetic oil (if you can call it that) is when switching a car with a fair accumulation of miles (say 40K) to Synthetic oil for the first time. Due to the far greater cleaning ability of the Synthetic, the engine gets its first real thorough cleaning, and as such, the oil and the filter get real dirty with the old crud, varnish and other deposits, real fast. As such, I make it a point to "ease" a newly converted car into the Synthetic oil regimen by changing say first at 3,000, then at 5,000 and then finally up to 10,000 or more.
I have been doing lots of reading on this concern about switching to synthetic oils on older engines causing gasket leaks and I'm feeling more and more confident that for the most part this is a myth without substantial evidence.
Also, there might be another phenomenon going on! Oil gaskets/seals (despite what oil you are using) will TEND to leak as it gets older. So now you have someone who might decide to TRY synthetic oil, long about the time the seals/gasket will start to leak ANYWAY.
I've always wondered if the engines that allegedly started leaking when converted to synthetic oil simply started leaking because the synthetic oil cleaned the gunk out of the engine. Once said gunk was gone, there was nothing left behind to plug up the cracks and gaps in the old gaskets.
the engine gets its first real thorough cleaning, and as such, the oil and the filter get real dirty with the old crud, varnish and other deposits, real fast.
I've used synthetic in the past but was never convinced I was getting my money's worth. However, after reading your post and finally understanding a few things, I may just go back to using it. I had heard it will say cleaner, but I didn't know it had those cleaning properties. That could explain why my oil was so dirty after my 4000 mile trip this past May. I changed the oil before leaving and dumped in Mobile 1. After the trip I went back to Chevron 5W-30.
I think another reason I am reluctant to use the more expensive synthetics, is because GM cars (mine is a 2001 Olds Silhouette) are engineered to use a quart every 2000 miles. I thought the service tech at the Cad dealer was blowing smoke, but I verified it with GM. It's pretty accurate. On the trip I added a quart of oil twice. Just doesn't seem right. Any idea why they would build an engine like that? It's a sweet runner otherwise.
1) The valve guides on many engines are designed to consume a minute amount of oil in an effort to keep them lubricated. As you can imagine, once oil makes its way past the valve guide seal and into the guide itself, it ain't comin' back. Assuming that your engine was designed this way, then yes, a quart every 2,000 miles is about right, any more oil is excessive, any less and you run the risk of needing an early valve job.
2) On other engines the valve guides are designed to run dry. DRY!?! What's up with that? Of my last three cars, two wouldn't use an entire quart of oil over the course of their 15,000 OCI (as defined by the factory), and the other, which has a 7,500 OCI uses almost exactly a quart in that period (which ain't bad for an engine with over 100K on the clock). What troubles me about these engines is that I've not yet read or been able to research anywhere just exactly why these valve guides and stems don't need lubrication. It just don't seem right. :-/
Every car uses some oil - oil has to get past the rings onto the upper portion of the piston; it has to protect the valve stems; and it gets vaporized and sent through the intake system via the crankcase breather.
Every car increases the original oil volume - via water picked up by the oil (hopefully very little), via combustion chamber byproducts.
So, what should the ideal loss in volume be? The difference in oil levels seeping past the rings and valves can be very little, at that mechanical level, but add up on longer oil change intervals. 3,000 mile oil changes hide a lot of oil consumption, with with longer intervals you can notice it, depending on the car.
Finally, break-in practices can affect oil consumption a lot. With combustion chamber crosshatching, seating the rings isn't such an issue, but abuse during break-in increases consumption over the life of the car.
Most manufacturers have a tolerance of 1 quart of oil consumed every 500 or 800 miles before a mechanical problem is indicated. Most drivers don't like to hear that, but it's true; and most of us are lucky enough to get engines with much, much lower consumption. But those engines don't necessarily last longer, use less gas, or have less power.
Like the host said, a little (not a lot) of oil consumption is a good thing...
Finally, break-in practices can affect oil consumption a lot. With combustion chamber crosshatching, seating the rings isn't such an issue, but abuse during break-in increases consumption over the life of the car.
Hmmm. I thought engine break-in was a thing of the past. Seems I read that today's modern engines are built to a tolerance that eliminates the break-in period. In fact, I haven't heard a dealer or tech mention it in years.
Yeah basically you don't have to "break in" a modern engine. Just don't get nuts about pegging the tachometer into the FAR RED for about 200 miles and you're good to go.
I just picked up my new 06 truck. I have a 2 yr/30,000 mile maintenance plan with it. I tried to ask them to see if they can use synthetic over the regular for my maintenance services but they said that regular every 3000 is efficient enough. I know i owned a car before and used synthetic on the old accord (which leaked alot),Im currently debating to see if i should stick with the conventional oil (supplied by the dealership service)or switch to synthetic after 1,000 mile mark (since my manual states that the break-in is 1200 miles). It has only 12 miles on it right now. Since i will b changing my oil and filter every 3,000 i should stick with conventional? I was using synthetic Mobil 1 on my old accord, but i'm trying to see if i should just stick with the conventional since my maintenance service is going to supply me free regular oil for 30,000 miles. Or, if i change with regular oil every 3k, does it leave about the same deposits with a synthetic? I dont really know. Can someone care to shed some light? Thanks
Given that my very successful experience with synthetic oil isn't even remotely scientific, you may disregard what I write at you leisure. ;-) That said, my bet is that using a 3K OCI will most likely protect your new engine about as well as maybe a 10-12K Mobil-1 OCI, however, there will probably be a slightly greater amount of deposits inside the engine once you hit that 30,000 mile mark with the 3K Conventional Oil plan.
From my perspective though, I don't have the time to fiddle around with getting my oil changed every six weeks, hell, I have a hard enough time fitting the recurring 30K service visits for our cars into my schedule. For me at least, using Mobil-1 and a 10-15K OCI (depending on conditions and such) is a huge time and money saver, so much so that if I was looking at a car that required a 3K OCI, I'd keep looking.
I have a question. Just got a new Sienna and will eventually switch to synthetic as I have done in the past. I will probably wait until 5,000 miles when I do the first oil change to keep the break in oil in there (not sure if I believe this is true or not actually).
In the past I have always changed at about 1,000 miles to clear out any tiny metal wear particles.
My question is - has anybody just changed the filter with a synthetic one (pur one) to help get out the particles, and left in the break in oil. Would this actually accomplish anything - would the filter actually capture these particles?
I just don't feel comfortable putting in synthetic before the 3-5,000 mile mark. I suppose I could just do a conventional oil change though.
BTW 196,000 miles on my Integra, and the valvetrain still looks brand new.
-Dudley
edit: Looks like the post above is certainly not worried about it like I am.
There's no such think as break in oil, at least not scientifically, and many automakers use synthetic oil right from the assembly line. So sure, you can wait for the first oil change if you wish but you don't have to.
What you want to do with a new engine is vary your speeds so that the engine also works on its "pull" side (high vacuum, foot off the gas) as well as the push side (pistons driven by high combustion pressures).
Comments
Ray T. :shades:
Some guys flying old planes use it, so unless they mysterious stop posting, I suppose it's harmless.
I can remember back in the 50's, when you pulled into a station (they were full service at no extra charge), there were racks of bottled oil, no doubt re-refined, that were filled from a huge drum, sitting by the pumps. They were identifiable only by weight. No one much cared what the brand was. Oil was oil, which frankly, I think is still pretty much the case. If you wanted something in a can with a fancy name, you paid extra.
I think you can still buy re-refined oil . It's just dirty oil that's been filtered, further supporting what I've said before. Oil doesn't break down, it just gets dirty.
Larry
I drove a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe in Europe for over 10 years (325K miles) changing the Mobil 1 5-30 every 30K miles and the filter every 5K miles. Twice I burnt valves (160K & 240K) so had the opportunity to check cam and bore ware. Both were negligable. On the cam you could feel no ware and there was only a slight groove in the bore. This car had mods to boost the turbo to 20-25 PSI, K&N long filter, 3" cat back exhaust, etc. and was driven routinely at 100+ mph (the cruise control stops at 115 mph).
My wife ran a 94 Mustang Cobra the same way with 30K oil changes. I do it now with my Mercedes Diesel.
None of these cars ever burned more than about 1/2 quart between 5K mile oil filter changes. Change the filter and add a quart. I have over a million miles on cars without any problem using this method. I guess I have saved $8+K (Mobil 1 was $20/liter in Germany, love the $4-5 here in the US) over the years if I use $50/oil change & filter.
How did I come to this regime? First, a fellow engineer (petroleum) told me one night that the advantage of synthetic was that the molecules were very very tough to break and in the presence of heat they did not form sludge and further change to carbon coke (verified by the Olds/GM 350 test of 100 hours at 90% power). His thesis was, "How much do you want to spend?", and to use as thin an oil as possible because the thinner oil would lubricate further up the piston and further down the valve guides. The only issue to him was how much would he use as the shear strength of even the thinnest synthetic far exceeded petroleum oil. In all my research on oil, filters, oil analysis I found that the folks who used synthetic oil and oil analysis normally did not begin to see any problems until about 50K miles. Some did have wear before 50K, so I picked 30K randomly. I also looked at a by-pass filter but decided I did not want to bother. Also, there are oils that by law can be labled synthetic that come from a petroleum base. I chose Mobil 1 because it was a true synthetic.
I also put synthetic lub in the transmission, differential and wheel bearings. I had about a 0.5 to 1 mpg improvement. Driving at 100+ without the radio antenna up did about the same.
Even on a new car the company has to show that your regime was at fault if they don't want to cover items under warranty. The new MB and BMWs come with sensors that tell you when to change the oil. One of my friends in Germany bought a new BMW 3 series wagon and the change oil light came on at about 12K.
Being that my dad changed oil every 1000 miles this is a big change.
NRK
Larry
But really; Internal combustion engines have changed very little, as far as the internal workings go, since their inception. Cranks and cams still spin, pistons still run up and down in their cylinders etc. Most of the "improvements" are external, i.e. computerization, emission controls (still not convinced that does any good) fuel injection and so on. And of course the fuel. The basic functioning is the same as has been forever.
Larry
To be sure.
My first car was a '48 Ford 4-door sedan. It was only 8 years old and a piece of crap. But it was my piece of crap, and that's all that mattered. Flat-head V-8, 2-barrel carb with dual exhaust and 3-speed column shift. By today's standards it would have not been allowed on the road.
The quality and technology of today's cars have improved dramatically over the years. But, pull the heads off the engine of any modern engine and it would look just like my '48 Ford. Well, close.
Seems that my use of a mixture of kerosene and oil to flush the oil pan has spooked lots of people. I wonder if they have any basis in experience.
I now have several thousand miles on that flush and my oil is still clear and clean, and I haven't experienced the "horrors" I've heard of. This isn't the first time I've done this. Never had a problem.
Of course if you change the oil as often as the "experts" say you should (you know; the ones sleeping with the oil companies), there still comes a day of reckoning; the sludge will show up sooner or later. :P
Larry
Kerosene has been used in dire emergencies, such as starting combat tanks in sub zero weather, but it's a risky business and I'm sure would void your warranty immediately on your engine should it suffer any bearing damage.
I'm sure the risk is great if all there was in the crank case was kerosene, but I used a 50/50 mix with oil. And, I only let it idle for 30 minutes. I've done this many times over the years with other cars and never experienced any problems. It really works quite well.
Larry
Why? Because engines will run up very high mileages with never having had a flush.
I think kerosene flushing is basically more like a placebo...it feels good and I understand the appeal of being the caretaker, but I can't think of one good reason to do it on a modern car (presuming you are fastidious about oil changes and use quality products.)
The argument is that kerosene has some oil in it and is thus a lubricant of sorts, but what better lubricant than oil itself?
I'd much prefer someone flush with cheap non-detergent oil if flushing is what you are trying to accomplish safely.
So, if you want a clean engine, skip all of the gimmick flushes (commercial flushes) as well as the gizmo flushes (kerosene, ATF or any other such back yard mechanic solution) and simply use synthetic motor oil.
Best Regards,
Shipo
That was then, before today's modern paints and clearcoats. I like the new coatings much better. :shades:
Larry
Saturday night, 11:10 pm, and here I am posting edmunds when I should be sleeping...
I gotta tell ya, with that comment above, I really slay me... :shades: :shades:
Yet folks are endlessly fearful about using synthetic oil or even going past 3/5k on their conventional oil OCI's. Just seems like a waste of time, money, effort, and resources to do any less than 15,000 mile OCI's. Oh well.....
Couldn't agree more. Especially with the cost of synthetic lubes. I still advocate changing the filter once in a while and topping off the oil. Change it rarely, like maybe once a year, if that. If synthetic lubes are as wonderful as has been touted here, there should be no problem.
A few hours ago I changed the oil on my current mount which has just over 100,000 miles on it, all but the first 5,000 miles on Synthetic Oil (Mobil-1 to be specific). For the duration of the warranty period I kept to the 7,500 OCI, and since then have averaged more like 12,000 miles between oil and filter changes. Today, as I peeked into the rocker cover and took a good look at the rockers and the rocker shaft, I saw nothing but perfectly clean oil covered metal. Period, full stop, the end. Oh, this last OCI was 12,000 miles and did require another quart to be added at about 8,500 miles. Not too shabby
The only problem that I've ever experienced with Synthetic oil (if you can call it that) is when switching a car with a fair accumulation of miles (say 40K) to Synthetic oil for the first time. Due to the far greater cleaning ability of the Synthetic, the engine gets its first real thorough cleaning, and as such, the oil and the filter get real dirty with the old crud, varnish and other deposits, real fast. As such, I make it a point to "ease" a newly converted car into the Synthetic oil regimen by changing say first at 3,000, then at 5,000 and then finally up to 10,000 or more.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The only caveat I still post regarding the use of synthetic oils is to probably not use them in rotary engines.
I've always wondered if the engines that allegedly started leaking when converted to synthetic oil simply started leaking because the synthetic oil cleaned the gunk out of the engine. Once said gunk was gone, there was nothing left behind to plug up the cracks and gaps in the old gaskets.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Thanks
I've used synthetic in the past but was never convinced I was getting my money's worth. However, after reading your post and finally understanding a few things, I may just go back to using it. I had heard it will say cleaner, but I didn't know it had those cleaning properties. That could explain why my oil was so dirty after my 4000 mile trip this past May. I changed the oil before leaving and dumped in Mobile 1. After the trip I went back to Chevron 5W-30.
I think another reason I am reluctant to use the more expensive synthetics, is because GM cars (mine is a 2001 Olds Silhouette) are engineered to use a quart every 2000 miles. I thought the service tech at the Cad dealer was blowing smoke, but I verified it with GM. It's pretty accurate. On the trip I added a quart of oil twice. Just doesn't seem right. Any idea why they would build an engine like that? It's a sweet runner otherwise.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Larry
1) The valve guides on many engines are designed to consume a minute amount of oil in an effort to keep them lubricated. As you can imagine, once oil makes its way past the valve guide seal and into the guide itself, it ain't comin' back. Assuming that your engine was designed this way, then yes, a quart every 2,000 miles is about right, any more oil is excessive, any less and you run the risk of needing an early valve job.
2) On other engines the valve guides are designed to run dry. DRY!?! What's up with that? Of my last three cars, two wouldn't use an entire quart of oil over the course of their 15,000 OCI (as defined by the factory), and the other, which has a 7,500 OCI uses almost exactly a quart in that period (which ain't bad for an engine with over 100K on the clock). What troubles me about these engines is that I've not yet read or been able to research anywhere just exactly why these valve guides and stems don't need lubrication. It just don't seem right. :-/
Best Regards,
Shipo
You and me both. That said, neither of my BMWs burned even a full quart during their 15K OCI.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Every car uses some oil - oil has to get past the rings onto the upper portion of the piston; it has to protect the valve stems; and it gets vaporized and sent through the intake system via the crankcase breather.
Every car increases the original oil volume - via water picked up by the oil (hopefully very little), via combustion chamber byproducts.
So, what should the ideal loss in volume be? The difference in oil levels seeping past the rings and valves can be very little, at that mechanical level, but add up on longer oil change intervals. 3,000 mile oil changes hide a lot of oil consumption, with with longer intervals you can notice it, depending on the car.
Finally, break-in practices can affect oil consumption a lot. With combustion chamber crosshatching, seating the rings isn't such an issue, but abuse during break-in increases consumption over the life of the car.
Most manufacturers have a tolerance of 1 quart of oil consumed every 500 or 800 miles before a mechanical problem is indicated. Most drivers don't like to hear that, but it's true; and most of us are lucky enough to get engines with much, much lower consumption. But those engines don't necessarily last longer, use less gas, or have less power.
Like the host said, a little (not a lot) of oil consumption is a good thing...
Hmmm. I thought engine break-in was a thing of the past. Seems I read that today's modern engines are built to a tolerance that eliminates the break-in period. In fact, I haven't heard a dealer or tech mention it in years.
Larry
From my perspective though, I don't have the time to fiddle around with getting my oil changed every six weeks, hell, I have a hard enough time fitting the recurring 30K service visits for our cars into my schedule. For me at least, using Mobil-1 and a 10-15K OCI (depending on conditions and such) is a huge time and money saver, so much so that if I was looking at a car that required a 3K OCI, I'd keep looking.
Best Regards,
Shipo
In the past I have always changed at about 1,000 miles to clear out any tiny metal wear particles.
My question is - has anybody just changed the filter with a synthetic one (pur one) to help get out the particles, and left in the break in oil. Would this actually accomplish anything - would the filter actually capture these particles?
I just don't feel comfortable putting in synthetic before the 3-5,000 mile mark. I suppose I could just do a conventional oil change though.
BTW 196,000 miles on my Integra, and the valvetrain still looks brand new.
-Dudley
edit: Looks like the post above is certainly not worried about it like I am.