To me how they market the product is a tad beyond the scope of the thread, unless we wish to really compare contrast all the oils. ie, Mobil One, Redline, Amsoil.
To me it is a matter of interest in the context of it driving the cost up or down. I think in the interest of fairness it is a tad like comparing WalMarts to your local 5/10 cents corner stores.
So while I am grateful for the choices we have, one of my criterion is cost/performance.
I know nothing about Amsoil or how it is marketed/sold, but..
An illegal pyramid scheme is not the same thing as the type of marketing/sales structure that I think you are referring to. I am assuming that what you mean is that amsoil is sold in the same way as things like Amway, Mary Kay, Avon, and Tupperware (not sure if Avon and Tupperware are still around). A newere scheme like these are some sort of candle parties I've heard about...forget what they call those.
These things are definitely annoying and definitely things I would stay away from.
I do not think the problem with Redline/Amsoil is near as serious as when Castrol won the arbitration; i.e., the right to call (group III) synthetic something that was previously understood NOT to synthetic. Conceivably anything that is hydrocracked in the way Castrol is can be called synthetic.
but a little over my head. i have a new 2006 civic. i drive semi-aggressively. maintain highway speeds of between 75 and 90 (at times) for 230 miles/oneway trip. i put royal purple 5w20 (recommended weight for this car). is this good or should i use mobil one (i wouldn't know where to begin to look for redline or amsoil), or castrol syntec?
I just bought a used '00 Corolla VE with 88K miles. The seller stated that they had been using Amsoil with 12K mile OCIs. I'd like to continue using synthetic oil, but will probably not use Amsoil since I can not buy it at my local Wal-Mart/AutoZone/NAPA. I drive 20 miles each way to work on a hilly, curving 2 lane highway (essentially no stops at all). I am thinking of going with Mobil-1 5W-30 and 7,500 mile OCIs. Any thought on the best oil and filter for my situation?
Highly unlikely, however, to be absolutely sure you might want to consider having oil analysis performed after the first exteded oil change with your chosen oil. FWIW, I'm a few weeks out from having the oil (Mobil-1 0W-40) in my Caravan analyzed after 7,500 miles (which is as far as I can go without having to add a quart and skewing the results) and I'll be using http://www.blackstone-labs.com for the work.
Well, to have a dual filter setup in my car was more important than having a navigation system or a high end stereo or expensive alloy wheels. It was also cheaper than a latte at Starbucks every day. What I am saying is that it is just a matter of personal preference.
Wether you can economically justify the investment or not, I really do not care.
The only thing I know is that my 2001 Echo presently has 142k miles and does not use ANY oil between 15K miles oil changes.
When the oil gets changed and on the occasions I have bothered sending in a sample for oil analysis, the results are outstanding.
I do keep my cars for 10 years and 400k or more so I will reap the benefits of a well lubed engine.
I am not an Amsoil advocate but I must say that both Mobil 1 and Amsoil ASL provide pretty much the same consistent and excellent results. European Castrol and a few other would probably be equally good.
If anyone is interested in the new SM 5w-30 TSUV Mobil 1 oil, i have the analysis on my new Titan here... just thought i'd like to share... nothing to me indicates that there is a big difference between the regular 5w-30 and this TSUV 5w-30 other than the fact that they're both labeled differently on the bottles.
I'm 4k miles in to an 06 Nissan Maxima. I've been trying to determine if premium oil / synthetic is worth the extra cash given my ownership characteristics. I drive about 16,000 miles per year with about 50/50 mix between highway and city. I'm on a five year loan. I'd say there's about a 50% chance I'll move on to another car within 4-5 years little chance I'll own it more than 7 years. That means my likely ownership mileage tops out at 112k.
Manual recommends 5w30 with 3,750 OCI. I don't change my own oil, alternate between quick change places and dealership depending on what other services are due. I'm leaning in the direction that sythetic would not be worth it for me, but appreciate any input.
I see that Wal-Mart is selling SuperTech full synthetic motor oil at $12.24 for 5qts. The specs seem to exceed all motor manufacturers requirements. Does anybody know who makes it for Wal-Mart and if it is worth a try ?
Yes, I am using the SuperTech for my garden tractor, and I can recommend it for the application. No need to decide what oil to use between seasons, when temperature varies from 40 to 60. In summer the oil does not evaporate, as a natural oil does during every mowing. I have no experience with using tractor in winter, but I guess that it would be easier to start it with synthetic oil.
If you plan on keeping to the recommended oil change interval (3750 or even 5000) then a regular SM rated oil will do you just fine. I live in northern Minnesota and most people up here use a regular oil with no problems (and many miles). Myself, have used both, but I prefer synthetic so I do not have to change it so much.
I am still young (24) but have been round engines since pops was livin under the family car on saturdays.. I started working on Harleys for 3 years (started my "career" is what I mean) and am now presently what is called a "lube tech" for the local quickie oil change place. My main deal is... "Whats" the deal with goin from syn to reg oil. H-D University states that once syn3 (mobil 1 synthetic) has been used in the engine, you cannot switch back to regular oils without changing out every seal and gasket in the engine. I thought this was bull till I saw it happen with my own eyeballs. The bike ran fine about 100 miles then startes smokin as the valve guides let go and oil becan drippin out of most of the seams on the crankcases.. Now that I am dealing with cars, rule of thumb is we never recommend Mobil 1 when a car reaches 40,000 miles or up as they tend to have problems. Now.. Thus is my question. Under the Mobil Website, they say you cant switch back while my FAQ page on the Castrol and Quaker State pages state there is no problem. Can anyone shed some light on the situation so that I can be straight with my customers? Or is this one of those things where there really is no answer. If you have info, get back at me at 4.9@comcast.net ... thanks
Seal problems are fairly old news as most (if not all) cars built in the last fifteen to twenty years came from the factory with seals that were compatible with Synthetic oil.
As for your 40,000 mile rule, well, forgetting for a moment cars like my last two BMWs (which require very high quality synthetic oil, period, full stop, the end), I use Mobil 1 in both our 2003 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan (which now has 68,000 miles on it) as well as our 1998 3.8 liter DGC which now has 117,000 on the clock. Given that Dodge was of course using conventional oil as the factory fill, I converted the 1998 to Mobil 1 before the 20,000 mile mark and I converted the 2003 to Mobil 1 at the 5,000 mile mark. Neither of those vans has ever leaked even so much as a drop of oil during the time they've spent parked in our garages.
What is interesting about this is that I've heard from many owners of DaimlerChrysler minivans with the 3.3 and 3.8 liter mills (same basic engine) who do in fact have lots of leaking problems (mostly from the valve covers). In every case the owners of the leaking vans have used conventional oil. Does that prove anything? Nope, but like I said before, it is "interesting".
I switched my E28 535is over to Mobil 1 somewhere around 90K, and the last time I talked to the current owner it had passed 300K- but he thought it might need a head gasket soon. What a piece of junk...
I have spoken to a couple of engine builders and the consensus seems to be that the leaking rumors are anecdotal and not backed up by any really good evidence. One guy builds Porsche engines all day long and has never experienced any issues switching back and forth. It's probably all co-incidental. Some of these old crates on the road would suffer a coronary from ANY increased frequency in oil changes regardless of type of oil used.
Thanks for that. I went and bought 5qts in the meantime and filled my Cavalier with it. I have always used Mobil 1 up till now but the car is getting on in miles - 140k - so I thought I would use the cheaper synthetic. My other cars all run on Mobil 1 and it's getting a bit expensive.
$12.24 for the Wal-Mart brand as against $21.40 for Mobil 1 is quite a difference. How did you find out that the Wal-Mart brand was the same as Mobil 1 ?
I am doing a repair on my brother's 99 GMC Pick-Up2500, with a no start problem. My Snap-On scanner gives me a No Communication display. Checked the ground, the positive supply, the connection and all seems to have continuity and battery and ground supply. Have you encountered such a problem? Replaced the ECM but still the same problem, so I put the old one back. Would appreciate if you have any tips and or suggestions. Many Thanks.
I have the Product Data Sheets for most of the Mobil 1 oils as well as the SuperTech 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils, and I have to tell you they are definitely NOT the same. I specifically compared the two 5W-30 Mobil 1 oils with the 5W-30 SuperTech and Mobil 1 outperformed ST in every classification.
I did a quick internet search and found all sorts of opinions on who the manufacturer is. My guess would be the correct answer is the one I found that says: "It can be anyone who meets their specs!& wants the business."
Another opinion I read, that makes sense, was:
To stores like Walmart and their packagers oils are just a commodity. Meaning they consider them all the same, so they are more interested in what their cost is. 99% of their customers only care about price and nothing else.
Assuming a Super Tech oil, that is made by QS etc, is the very same product you will find in the QS bottle is a huge leap. There are varing additives that can be used that would increase or decrease the cost of the raw product without affecting it meeting current spec's.
I think all you can say about store brands is that they are cheaper than name brands but you cannot say they are identical formulations...
In other words, it really does not matter who the manufacturer is.
Being advertised as a full synthetic oil, one would therefore assume that it's at least better than regular oil. So at that price it is still a bargain because regular costs about the same.
On the SuperTech container they claim to have additives for the protection of high mileage engines and to improve rubber seals. So there is some kind of package in there.
Per information from BITOG.com, the folks at Warren Distribution are the blenders of Mag 1 oil (their base stocks still remain something of a mystery). Of the Mag 1 oil product line they do in fact have a "Fully Synthetic" 5W-30 and 10W-30 and both of those are apparently sold by Walmart under the SuperTech label.
Thanks. Reading that information makes me come to the conclusion that SuperTech is not at all bad for what you pay. So for now I will use it again in my high mileage cars.
This can only put pressure on the better known brands to lower their price. I suppose Wal-Mart has a role to play in the great scheme of things. Or maybe, that's the price Mobil 1 should cost. We all know the profits the oil companies are making and what their CEO's are paid.
True, it ain't bad for what you get (assuming that Walmart hasn't specified a watered down version of the Mag 1 -something that I've heard folks suggest but with no supporting documentation-), however, based upon a couple of UOAs posted on BITOG, the TBN after ~7,000 miles is alarmingly low (like 2 something). As I am a high mileage driver I need an oil that I can run for 10,000 miles or better and apparently ST ain't it.
FWIW, I've just packaged up two samples of Mobil 1 0W-40, one virgin and the other with 7,500 miles on it from our 1998 DGC (which had 115,500 miles on it when I took the sample), and I hope to have time to send it off to Blackstone later today. I'll be sure to report the results when I get them. ;-)
On the Cavalier which for the past year has only been doing very short trips down to my wife's work, I'm changing the oil every 3 months. The engine barely warms up and it's worse in the winter when the car gets snowed under. It's parked outside all the time. So I think the SuperTech oil is fine for the situation. As I have said, it should be at least as good as the best regular oil.
I've been on a four to five month OCI schedule for both of our DGCs, however, in our case, that equates to 10,000 to 12,500 miles per change. I did my last change at 7,500 miles (for the purposes of having the Oil Analysis performed) specifically because that is as far as I can go without adding any "make-up oil".
In your case the only concern I would have about the Cavalier is acid and sludge formation (common in cars that don't get fully warmed up all that often). You might want to consider having a UOA performed on the SuperTech oil just to make sure it is up to the task.
Every weekend I take the Cavalier out for a long drive to warm the engine up and charge the battery. So maybe that would help. I'll see how it goes with the ST this summer and when winter comes I'll review the situation and do a UOA on the oil.
Speaking of driving conditions, was the guy with the 330Ci racing it or does the car do normal road duty?
Here's his description:
"Most of the miles (4500) were from 4 days, 1125 miles each. Two round trips Houston to Indianapolis. About 18 hours on the road each day. Mileage average was about 31.0 mpg at 70 - 75 mph."
It sure looks like the oil wasn't overly stressed.
Geez, I'm delighted that our "Oil Quality Radar" seems to have worked regarding the Castrol and at the same time stunned that BMW would use/recommend that stuff in their cars.
For those of y'all who haven't had a chance to follow the full exchange that div2 and I have been having over the last three or four years, the scenario sort of played out as follows: - After only 30,000 miles on my 1999 328i I noticed a significant build-up of brownish slimy varnish on the inside of my cam cover. Red-Flag #1. - Having turned a pretty fair wrench back in the 1970s I'd become painfully aware of the smell (as in the insides of the engines that I'd worked on would put a serious hurt on my nose) of engines that had been lubricated with Pennsylvania Grade Crude (Quaker State, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head and others), which I had always attributed to the fact that they were Paraffin based oils. Whenever I smelled that stench, a severely sludged engine was sure to be uncovered once it was opened up. Red-Flag #2. - Independent of my own Red-Flag events, div2 encountered some of his own, and when we compared notes we found that our suspicions were substantially validated by each other's findings. Scientific? Not in the least. Enough empirical evidence to keep them red flags a-flyin? Absotively.
Now with this latest data point from BlackStone suggesting that the BMW/Castrol Synthetic is only good for 6,000 relatively easy miles being added to the above flags and I’m thinking that I'm going to give the German Castrol 0W-30 a very wide berth from here on in. FWIW, while I've been leery of that oil for some time, there was no one thing I could point to that would disqualify it in my mind. Why? Well, back when I first started having concerns (in the 2001-2002 time frame), I also heard that some BMW dealerships had been caught using conventional oil in cars that specifically required the BMW Synthetic, and as such, there was a class action law suit being worked at the time. Was non-synthetic oil used in my 328i? Don't know, hence my hedge. This latest finding seems to put that hedge to rest, at least for me.
...engines that had been lubricated with Pennsylvania Grade Crude (Quaker State, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head and others), which I had always attributed to the fact that they were Paraffin based oils.
Are they still paraffin-based? The most frequent complaint I see about Pennzoil is that, during the time period you were speaking of, the oil would sludge up an engine. I don't see many complaints about modern-day Pennzoil doing the same, and the oil analyses seem to indicate it is far better than other popular oils (I'm thinking of Valvoline, which infests nearly all of the quickie-lube places here in Kentucky--perhaps in part due to their nearby headquarters).
While I have no evidence to suggest that any of them still use Pennsylvania Grade Crude as the base, I have heard anecdotally that these oils do still contribute to sludging. To what extent? No idea, I stopped using Quaker State back in 1975 and stopped wrenching on (other peoples) cars in 1980.
Back before I switched to Mobil 1 in something like 1982 I would much rather have used the "O'Line" oils (Valvoline and Havoline) over any of the Pennsylvania oils, Pennzoil included. I'm actually surprised that you've seen evidence that suggests that Pennzoil now has apparently gotten a leg up on Valvoline.
Alternate Title: It's a damn good thing I've been using Mobil 1 for so long.
As this was my first oil analysis performed on a car I sent Blackstone Labs a virgin sample of unused oil to use as a baseline as well as a sample from our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 with 7,489 miles on it.
The comments from the unused oil were: No problems showed up in this sample of virgin Mobil 1 - 0W/40 engine oil. The viscosity was strong, reading in the mid-SAE 40W range. This will drop when you start using the oil in your engine (all oils tend to drop a little). The TBN read 12.2, which is a strong reading - 1.0 is too low. The oil additives would be suitable for gasoline engine use. Calcium is a detergent/dispersant additive, while phosphorus and zinc are from a compound called zinc-dithiophosphate and is an anti-wear additive. This oil should do well for your engine.
The comments from the used sample were: We found a high amount of potassium and sodium (key ingredients of anti-freeze) indicating that 0.29% of the sample was coolant. Luckily, it hasn't hurt engine wear at this point. A cooling system pressure check should find the source of the leak. 1.8% of the sample was fuel, which comes from idling/city driving. It didn't affect viscosity, which measured in the correct range for a 0W/40. The TBN was 4.4, some active additive left. Air and oil filtration appeared normal. We suggest short (3K miles) oil changes until coolant problem is fixed. This is a Caution report!
Oil analysis results: Basic facts: - Miles on Oil: ------- 7,489 - Miles on Veh: -- 115,489 - Sample Date: -- 17-Jun-2006
This van has been using maybe a quart of coolant every year or so since it was fairly new, possibly since new. The only time I can think of that might have caused a problem was when we were visiting a friend in late 1998 or early 1999 and the engine got hot from the extremely steep roads we were driving on (we took the scenic route as opposed to the main road) that some form of a failsafe mode was triggered in the engine/transmission electronics. I don't remember exactly what the failsafe mode was but I do remember that as soon as we started on the descent (and as a result the engine cooled), the mode switched itself off.
Anyway, the assumption is that this problem has existed for over 100,000 miles at this point and given the relative health of the rest of the above report, it seems likely that my use of a fully synthetic oil (which has a greater ability to shrug off the debilitating effects of coolant contamination) has allowed me to continually dodge a premature engine failure. The real question is "What has failed?" - A head gasket? Most likely and a simple fix to boot. - A cracked head? Well, they are aluminum and as such they are not quite as robust as good old fashioned heavy iron heads. If so, this is a simple fix as well (just ~$300 more costly). - A cracked block? Hmmm, I'm thinking not too likely as there are other more vulnerable things to fail first (the heads and the gaskets).
So, now the decision that I face is what to do next. Do I: 1) Ignore the problem and simply continue to use Mobil 1 at a slightly increased OCI level (I've been doing 10K-12K OCIs, however, the "3K mile" recommendation not withstanding, the above analysis seems to indicate that 7,500 is probably acceptable). 2) Assume the problem is a leaking head gasket and buy a complete gasket set for $181.49 from NAPA. 3) Assume a cracked head and pop for a set of reconditioned heads ($150 per from http://www.aluminumheads.com/Chrysler.html) totaling $481.49 (with the above gasket set) plus the cost of shipping from Portland, OR.
I think I'm going to have to ponder this one for a while.
Thanks for the analysis Shipo, seems like the guys at Bitog and I would agree that everything is holding on for the moment but i guess you know you should take care of that coolant leak.
By the way, that 0w-40 M1 sure is a good oil. That oil is surely helping you out some.
Why bother doing anything (except changing your oil a little earlier)? You said, in part, "This van has been using maybe a quart of coolant every year or so since it was fairly new, possibly since new."
If it's surived to 115,000 miles why change anything now?
"Thanks for the analysis Shipo, seems like the guys at Bitog and I would agree that everything is holding on for the moment but i guess you know you should take care of that coolant leak."
No problem, any time. ;-)
By the way, that 0w-40 M1 sure is a good oil. That oil is surely helping you out some.
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that the engine would have long since gone Tango Uniform were it not for the Mobil 1. At this point I'm going to swap out the Ethylene Glycol antifreeze for Propylene Glycol antifreeze this weekend as it is (apparently) able to coexist (relatively) peacefully with engine oil unlike conventional coolant.
"Why bother doing anything (except changing your oil a little earlier)? You said, in part, "This van has been using maybe a quart of coolant every year or so since it was fairly new, possibly since new."
If it's surived to 115,000 miles why change anything now?"
I agree, unless I come up with a relatively inexpensive (from both a cost and a time perspective) way to fix the top end of the engine, I'm most inclined to "Run'er till she drops."
I have been using Mobil 1 in my 99 Tahoe for about the last 4 years ever since I bought it (used). I do 5000 mile OCI's. When I bought the Tahoe it had 41,000 miles and now has 86,000 miles.
at the 80,000 mile oil change, I decided to use Castrol Syntec. Several strange things happened during the 80,000-85,000 interval. 1.) Soon after the oil change, I noticed a pronounced growl upon acceleration at low (800-1200) RPM's. Could not be heard at idle and was independent of gear selection. 2.) The oil pressure gauge started operating erratically. The oil pressure gauge registers from 0-80 PSI. At startup, it registers a solid 50-60 psi. Once the engine warms up and the oil pressure drops to below 40 psi, the gauge jumps erratically between 20 and 40 psi. It only does this at idle. 3.) When I changed the oil at the 85,000 mark, I noticed some crud at the end of the drain plug. I was not sure if this crud was metal filings or just crud/scum that had accumulated in the oil pan. I did not notice this crud before but I could have missed it, although I doubt it.
I have since changed back to Mobil 1 at the 85,000 mark. The low RPM growl is gone, the oil pressure gauge is still kinda wacky and I don't know if there is any additional crud in the oil pan. I will have to wait until 90,000 miles to look again.
Would you guys like to weigh-in on the causes of the low rpm growl, the wacky oil pressure gauge (gauge may just be going bad), and the crud at the end of the drain plug.
Do you know where the oil-sending unit is located on the 99 5.7L?
The last SB Chevy I wrenched on was the 350 in my 1974 Monte Carlo. The oil pressure sender was located on the top of the block just behind the intake manifold.
Comments
To me it is a matter of interest in the context of it driving the cost up or down. I think in the interest of fairness it is a tad like comparing WalMarts to your local 5/10 cents corner stores.
So while I am grateful for the choices we have, one of my criterion is cost/performance.
An illegal pyramid scheme is not the same thing as the type of marketing/sales structure that I think you are referring to. I am assuming that what you mean is that amsoil is sold in the same way as things like Amway, Mary Kay, Avon, and Tupperware (not sure if Avon and Tupperware are still around). A newere scheme like these are some sort of candle parties I've heard about...forget what they call those.
These things are definitely annoying and definitely things I would stay away from.
Thanks,
Jim
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Wether you can economically justify the investment or not, I really do not care.
The only thing I know is that my 2001 Echo presently has 142k miles and does not use ANY oil between 15K miles oil changes.
When the oil gets changed and on the occasions I have bothered sending in a sample for oil analysis, the results are outstanding.
I do keep my cars for 10 years and 400k or more so I will reap the benefits of a well lubed engine.
I am not an Amsoil advocate but I must say that both Mobil 1 and Amsoil ASL provide pretty much the same consistent and excellent results. European Castrol and a few other would probably be equally good.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=003527
I currently have GC in there now, it'll be interesting to see what my UOA will be next after i hit about 21,000 miles on the odometer.
Manual recommends 5w30 with 3,750 OCI. I don't change my own oil, alternate between quick change places and dealership depending on what other services are due. I'm leaning in the direction that sythetic would not be worth it for me, but appreciate any input.
I live in northern Minnesota and most people up here use a regular oil with no problems (and many miles). Myself, have used both, but I prefer synthetic so I do not have to change it so much.
Good Day,
Steven
As for your 40,000 mile rule, well, forgetting for a moment cars like my last two BMWs (which require very high quality synthetic oil, period, full stop, the end), I use Mobil 1 in both our 2003 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan (which now has 68,000 miles on it) as well as our 1998 3.8 liter DGC which now has 117,000 on the clock. Given that Dodge was of course using conventional oil as the factory fill, I converted the 1998 to Mobil 1 before the 20,000 mile mark and I converted the 2003 to Mobil 1 at the 5,000 mile mark. Neither of those vans has ever leaked even so much as a drop of oil during the time they've spent parked in our garages.
What is interesting about this is that I've heard from many owners of DaimlerChrysler minivans with the 3.3 and 3.8 liter mills (same basic engine) who do in fact have lots of leaking problems (mostly from the valve covers). In every case the owners of the leaking vans have used conventional oil. Does that prove anything? Nope, but like I said before, it is "interesting".
Best Regards,
Shipo
BTW, it's "Mobil 1".
Best Regards,
Shipo
$12.24 for the Wal-Mart brand as against $21.40 for Mobil 1 is quite a difference. How did you find out that the Wal-Mart brand was the same as Mobil 1 ?
I am doing a repair on my brother's 99 GMC Pick-Up2500, with a no start problem. My Snap-On scanner gives me a No Communication display. Checked the ground, the positive supply, the connection and all seems to have continuity and battery and ground supply. Have you encountered such a problem? Replaced the ECM but still the same problem, so I put the old one back. Would appreciate if you have any tips and or suggestions. Many Thanks.
More Power to you.
Tatang06
Best Regards,
Shipo
Another opinion I read, that makes sense, was:
To stores like Walmart and their packagers oils are just a commodity. Meaning they consider them all the same, so they are more interested in what their cost is. 99% of their customers only care about price and nothing else.
Assuming a Super Tech oil, that is made by QS etc, is the very same product you will find in the QS bottle is a huge leap. There are varing additives that can be used that would increase or decrease the cost of the raw product without affecting it meeting current spec's.
I think all you can say about store brands is that they are cheaper than name brands but you cannot say they are identical formulations...
In other words, it really does not matter who the manufacturer is.
On the SuperTech container they claim to have additives for the protection of high mileage engines and to improve rubber seals. So there is some kind of package in there.
http://www.wd-wpp.com/products-mag1.html
http://www.wd-wpp.com/products.html#Lubricants
http://www.wd-wpp.com/specsheet/fullsynthetic.pdf
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Shipo
This can only put pressure on the better known brands to lower their price. I suppose Wal-Mart has a role to play in the great scheme of things. Or maybe, that's the price Mobil 1 should cost. We all know the profits the oil companies are making and what their CEO's are paid.
FWIW, I've just packaged up two samples of Mobil 1 0W-40, one virgin and the other with 7,500 miles on it from our 1998 DGC (which had 115,500 miles on it when I took the sample), and I hope to have time to send it off to Blackstone later today. I'll be sure to report the results when I get them. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'll stick to Mobil 1 for my other cars.
In your case the only concern I would have about the Cavalier is acid and sludge formation (common in cars that don't get fully warmed up all that often). You might want to consider having a UOA performed on the SuperTech oil just to make sure it is up to the task.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I now find myself wondering how well the Mobil 1 0W-40 would fare in the same car under the same driving conditions.
Speaking of driving conditions, was the guy with the 330Ci racing it or does the car do normal road duty?
FWIW, I finally managed to get my 7,500 mile sample of Mobil 1 sent off to Blackstone today, so stay tuned. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Here's his description:
"Most of the miles (4500) were from 4 days, 1125 miles each. Two round trips Houston to Indianapolis. About 18 hours on the road each day. Mileage average was about 31.0 mpg at 70 - 75 mph."
It sure looks like the oil wasn't overly stressed.
For those of y'all who haven't had a chance to follow the full exchange that div2 and I have been having over the last three or four years, the scenario sort of played out as follows:
- After only 30,000 miles on my 1999 328i I noticed a significant build-up of brownish slimy varnish on the inside of my cam cover. Red-Flag #1.
- Having turned a pretty fair wrench back in the 1970s I'd become painfully aware of the smell (as in the insides of the engines that I'd worked on would put a serious hurt on my nose) of engines that had been lubricated with Pennsylvania Grade Crude (Quaker State, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head and others), which I had always attributed to the fact that they were Paraffin based oils. Whenever I smelled that stench, a severely sludged engine was sure to be uncovered once it was opened up. Red-Flag #2.
- Independent of my own Red-Flag events, div2 encountered some of his own, and when we compared notes we found that our suspicions were substantially validated by each other's findings. Scientific? Not in the least. Enough empirical evidence to keep them red flags a-flyin? Absotively.
Now with this latest data point from BlackStone suggesting that the BMW/Castrol Synthetic is only good for 6,000 relatively easy miles being added to the above flags and I’m thinking that I'm going to give the German Castrol 0W-30 a very wide berth from here on in. FWIW, while I've been leery of that oil for some time, there was no one thing I could point to that would disqualify it in my mind. Why? Well, back when I first started having concerns (in the 2001-2002 time frame), I also heard that some BMW dealerships had been caught using conventional oil in cars that specifically required the BMW Synthetic, and as such, there was a class action law suit being worked at the time. Was non-synthetic oil used in my 328i? Don't know, hence my hedge. This latest finding seems to put that hedge to rest, at least for me.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Are they still paraffin-based? The most frequent complaint I see about Pennzoil is that, during the time period you were speaking of, the oil would sludge up an engine. I don't see many complaints about modern-day Pennzoil doing the same, and the oil analyses seem to indicate it is far better than other popular oils (I'm thinking of Valvoline, which infests nearly all of the quickie-lube places here in Kentucky--perhaps in part due to their nearby headquarters).
Back before I switched to Mobil 1 in something like 1982 I would much rather have used the "O'Line" oils (Valvoline and Havoline) over any of the Pennsylvania oils, Pennzoil included. I'm actually surprised that you've seen evidence that suggests that Pennzoil now has apparently gotten a leg up on Valvoline.
Best Regards,
Shipo
As this was my first oil analysis performed on a car I sent Blackstone Labs a virgin sample of unused oil to use as a baseline as well as a sample from our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 with 7,489 miles on it.
The comments from the unused oil were:
No problems showed up in this sample of virgin Mobil 1 - 0W/40 engine oil. The viscosity was strong, reading in the mid-SAE 40W range. This will drop when you start using the oil in your engine (all oils tend to drop a little). The TBN read 12.2, which is a strong reading - 1.0 is too low. The oil additives would be suitable for gasoline engine use. Calcium is a detergent/dispersant additive, while phosphorus and zinc are from a compound called zinc-dithiophosphate and is an anti-wear additive. This oil should do well for your engine.
The comments from the used sample were:
We found a high amount of potassium and sodium (key ingredients of anti-freeze) indicating that 0.29% of the sample was coolant. Luckily, it hasn't hurt engine wear at this point. A cooling system pressure check should find the source of the leak. 1.8% of the sample was fuel, which comes from idling/city driving. It didn't affect viscosity, which measured in the correct range for a 0W/40. The TBN was 4.4, some active additive left. Air and oil filtration appeared normal. We suggest short (3K miles) oil changes until coolant problem is fixed. This is a Caution report!
Oil analysis results:
Basic facts:
- Miles on Oil: ------- 7,489
- Miles on Veh: -- 115,489
- Sample Date: -- 17-Jun-2006
Category ----------------- Used Sample ----- Virgin Sample ---- Universal Avgs.
Aluminum ---------------------------- 4 ----------------- 1 ------------------------- 5
Chromium --------------------------- 1 ----------------- 0 ------------------------- 1
Iron ---------------------------------- 25 ----------------- 0 ----------------------- 33
Copper ------------------------------- 8 ----------------- 0 ------------------------- 7
Lead ---------------------------------- 7 ----------------- 1 ------------------------- 5
Tin ------------------------------------ 0 ----------------- 0 -------------------------- 1
Molybdenum ---------------------- 88 --------------- 71 ------------------------ 51
Nickel -------------------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 -------------------------- 1
Manganese ------------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 -------------------------- 1
Silver --------------------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 -------------------------- 0
Titanium ----------------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 -------------------------- 0
Potassium ----------------------- 245 ----------------- 1 -------------------------- 9
Boron ------------------------------- 50 ------------- 146 ------------------------- 29
Silicon ------------------------------ 15 ---------------- 5 -------------------------- 21
Sodium --------------------------- 146 ---------------- 4 -------------------------- 20
Calcium ------------------------ 2,714 ---------- 2,650 ---------------------- 2,424
Magnesium ----------------------- 23 --------------- 14 ------------------------ 252
Phosphorus --------------------- 861-------------- 790 ------------------------ 788
Zinc: ------------------------------- 882 ------------- 889 ------------------------ 891
Barium: ------------------------------- 0 ---------------- 0 --------------------------- 0
SUS Viscosity @ 210 F: ----- 71.7 ------------ 73.3 --------------------- 65-76
Flashpoint F: -------------------- 340 ------------ 445 ---------------------- greater than 375
Fuel %: ---------------------------- 1.8 ---------------- 0 ----------------------- less than 2.0
Antifreeze % ------------------- 0.29 ----------------- 0 --------------------------- 0
Water % ----------------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 ---------------------- less than 0.1
Insolubles % --------------------- 0.3 ----------------- 0 ---------------------- less than 0.6
General Thoughts (from me not from Blackstone):
This van has been using maybe a quart of coolant every year or so since it was fairly new, possibly since new. The only time I can think of that might have caused a problem was when we were visiting a friend in late 1998 or early 1999 and the engine got hot from the extremely steep roads we were driving on (we took the scenic route as opposed to the main road) that some form of a failsafe mode was triggered in the engine/transmission electronics. I don't remember exactly what the failsafe mode was but I do remember that as soon as we started on the descent (and as a result the engine cooled), the mode switched itself off.
Anyway, the assumption is that this problem has existed for over 100,000 miles at this point and given the relative health of the rest of the above report, it seems likely that my use of a fully synthetic oil (which has a greater ability to shrug off the debilitating effects of coolant contamination) has allowed me to continually dodge a premature engine failure. The real question is "What has failed?"
- A head gasket? Most likely and a simple fix to boot.
- A cracked head? Well, they are aluminum and as such they are not quite as robust as good old fashioned heavy iron heads. If so, this is a simple fix as well (just ~$300 more costly).
- A cracked block? Hmmm, I'm thinking not too likely as there are other more vulnerable things to fail first (the heads and the gaskets).
So, now the decision that I face is what to do next. Do I:
1) Ignore the problem and simply continue to use Mobil 1 at a slightly increased OCI level (I've been doing 10K-12K OCIs, however, the "3K mile" recommendation not withstanding, the above analysis seems to indicate that 7,500 is probably acceptable).
2) Assume the problem is a leaking head gasket and buy a complete gasket set for $181.49 from NAPA.
3) Assume a cracked head and pop for a set of reconditioned heads ($150 per from http://www.aluminumheads.com/Chrysler.html) totaling $481.49 (with the above gasket set) plus the cost of shipping from Portland, OR.
I think I'm going to have to ponder this one for a while.
Best Regards,
Shipo
By the way, that 0w-40 M1 sure is a good oil. That oil is surely helping you out some.
If it's surived to 115,000 miles why change anything now?
No problem, any time. ;-)
By the way, that 0w-40 M1 sure is a good oil. That oil is surely helping you out some.
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that the engine would have long since gone Tango Uniform were it not for the Mobil 1. At this point I'm going to swap out the Ethylene Glycol antifreeze for Propylene Glycol antifreeze this weekend as it is (apparently) able to coexist (relatively) peacefully with engine oil unlike conventional coolant.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If it's surived to 115,000 miles why change anything now?"
I agree, unless I come up with a relatively inexpensive (from both a cost and a time perspective) way to fix the top end of the engine, I'm most inclined to "Run'er till she drops."
Best Regards,
Shipo
at the 80,000 mile oil change, I decided to use Castrol Syntec. Several strange things happened during the 80,000-85,000 interval. 1.) Soon after the oil change, I noticed a pronounced growl upon acceleration at low (800-1200) RPM's. Could not be heard at idle and was independent of gear selection. 2.) The oil pressure gauge started operating erratically. The oil pressure gauge registers from 0-80 PSI. At startup, it registers a solid 50-60 psi. Once the engine warms up and the oil pressure drops to below 40 psi, the gauge jumps erratically between 20 and 40 psi. It only does this at idle. 3.) When I changed the oil at the 85,000 mark, I noticed some crud at the end of the drain plug. I was not sure if this crud was metal filings or just crud/scum that had accumulated in the oil pan. I did not notice this crud before but I could have missed it, although I doubt it.
I have since changed back to Mobil 1 at the 85,000 mark. The low RPM growl is gone, the oil pressure gauge is still kinda wacky and I don't know if there is any additional crud in the oil pan. I will have to wait until 90,000 miles to look again.
Would you guys like to weigh-in on the causes of the low rpm growl, the wacky oil pressure gauge (gauge may just be going bad), and the crud at the end of the drain plug.
Thanks,
David
Does anybody know an "easy" way of testing the oil pressure gauge? Not really interested in tearing into the dash to get at it!!
Do you know where the oil-sending unit is located on the 99 5.7L? My google searches have not been very fruitful.
Thanks
The last SB Chevy I wrenched on was the 350 in my 1974 Monte Carlo. The oil pressure sender was located on the top of the block just behind the intake manifold.