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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • davids1davids1 Member Posts: 411
    When the Sociaty of Automotive engineers designed the testing criteria they probably knew that they would never be able to pull the wool over your eyes, but they gave it a good shot anyway.

    Please elaborate!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."The Camero test? Not in the neighbor hood of being scientific."...

    Upshot: It is a real world, duplicate able procedure, simulation of what the so called AVERAGE user would do an oil change, think etc. The procedural anomaly is every 1000 miles (up to 18 times for the Amsoil competitor and 14 times for the Amsoil) there is an oil analysis test so ANYONE can see the progression.

    Perhaps the real issue: you did not like the AMSOIL progression, especially since Amsoil was pooped out at 14,000 miles while it had a guarantee of 25,000 miles!!??

    Further the "other oil" lasted 4,000 more miles and is commonly known to only be good for 15,000 miles?

    Oil analysis really had it start literally generations ago. How do you know a fluid is doing its job or has a useful oil life remaining? Test and measure against known standards: new product, product that has been used. Airline maintenance was where it was extensively used To me it is removing the wool from the eyes of FALSE advertising.

    No one has made a case for the/a test being "scientific". A test, yes. Can you duplicate?? ABSOLUTELY. Anyone can take a sample and send it away to a laboratory of their choice.

    It is instructive only you have insinuated that some one (nobody actually) is making that claim of scientific validity. Indeed "science will not make good on the warranty should you/anyone feel as a consumer you would want or need it!!??

    Indeed the irony is MANY if not all Amsoil sites I have checked out and truly I have NOT checked all or most of them, do sell OIL ANALYSIS KITS!!!??? So indeed if oil analysis is not "SCIENTIFIC" why are these Amsoil dealers selling them!!?? These "to use your thought process "unscientific" products!!??

    You should stop the explanations, for they are becoming more disingenuous, the more you explain them.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The other is the very same "unscientific" oil analysis sold by the very same folks who sell Amsoil products are to be believed, (as unscientific as one would claim it to be) one should test the Camaro Amsoil product at 12,500 to 14,000 miles to make sure the TBN (and wear pattern by product accumulation) still leaves usable oil life.Indeed the test indicated Amsoil being nearly fully depleted at 14,000 miles. If one adds that seemingly necessary oil analysis cost, of what: 20-45 dollars; does this necessary extra cost increases the overall cost?

    Paradoxically, lower cost is what led us to Amsoil in the first place? If I knew what deductive reasoning was, would I sense a trend here?

    I might be the only fool on this thread, but I do not NECESSARILY see the Amsoil results of being fully depleted at 14,000 miles with a 25,000 mile guarantee as unsalvageable. You might have probably missed this, but that is the upfront and to you probably hidden reason for the questions on WARRANTY.

    Upshot: Will a vendor of Amsoil/Amsoil (in a timely manner) pay for the shown to be "necessary oil analysis at 12,500 miles and the products and services needed to change oil to go to 25,000 miles or another 12,500 miles? ( you know, bring it right over on the next weekend? to we are waiting for the second coming and not even HE who is coming knows when that is!? )

    So given the LACK of answers, I would be a fool to expect warranty fulfillment!!??
  • pulgopulgo Member Posts: 400
    In about 3 month the oil in my 2001 Toyota Echo will reach 25k miles. The oil is AMSOIL ASL 5w-30 and I am using a dual filter by-pass setup.

    After the oil analysis I will let you guys know the results.

    I know, the by-pass filter setup was not considered for the 25k mile guarantee, but what the heck.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >I am using a dual filter by-pass setup.

    Would someone give me the short explanation of dual filter bypass setup?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • pulgopulgo Member Posts: 400
    You have two filters instead of one. One is a regular full flow filter, the other one only receives about 10% of the oil flow and filters down to less than 1 micron, at least that is what Amsoil claims.

    The whole system is about 200 bucks plus installation, so not everyone would be interested, especially considering that most people only keep their cars for less than 100k miles or 4 or 5 years.

    The rationale is that if you keep your vehicle for a long time, you might recover the investment because your engine will last longer. Impossible to prove, of course.

    My intention is to keep my 2001 Echo for at least 400k miles. I will never know, if and when it reaches that mileage, if it was due to good filtering of the oil.

    The rest of the car will fall apart by then, who knows.

    By the way, there are several other dual filter setups, some of them use toilet paper as a filter media, others simply are used to relocate a hard to reach filter and also to add oil capacity to the system. This allows for bigger filters, better engine cooling and longer OCI's.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If others do not think so, I will cease and desist the discussion on (dual) by pass oil filter/s. My thinking it is adds to the reasoning on why synthetic oil is being used. It is another arrow in the quiver, so to speak.

    Another to consider would be a pre oiler system. A pre oiler uses electrical motors to circulate oil before start up(hence PRE oilers) so there is little to no dry contact.

    The benefit: Fully 80% of the engine wear is due to so called dry contact at start up or cold temperatures. Since synthetic oil (for example) is not a magic elixer it does NOT STOP dry contact from happening. It does have a tendency to flow faster and better than conventional oil, thus cutting down the dry contact time.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    One of the major factors other than the advertized one of lower micron filtering is with the system installed one is actually running MORE oil, which in and by itself will let you run a percentage more miles. So for example when the system is installed, it will add say 1 quart of oil (usually more) So for example on the 2004 Honda Civic, the oil capacity goes from 3.4 quarts with a recommendation of 10,000 miles OCI's to 4.4 quarts. 1 quart more/3.4 qt=29.4% MORE. So 10,000 x .294= 2940 miles or just 12,940 miles OCI.
  • philzyphilzy Member Posts: 4
    I put synthetic oill in my 1980 Volkswagen diesal rabbit several hundred miles ago.Should I drain it and put diesel oill back in.do you think I might have damaged my engine?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I cannot imagine why you would think you damaged your engine. That said, some synthetic oils are formulated specifically for diesel engines, some are not. What oil did you use?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Also what are the original oil specifications?
  • ldcopeldcope Member Posts: 35
    You can put Diesel oil in a gas motor, but you can't use gas motor oil in a diesel for a long period, the TBN is too low.
  • ldcopeldcope Member Posts: 35
    ..."The Camero test? Not in the neighbor hood of being scientific."...

    A scientific test would involve several engines identicle as possible all operated the same way, then several oil samples taken taken from each tested a relable labs.

    Who knows what these guys agenda was and who did they work for. If it's on a website does that make it true?

    You're credibility went through the floor when you recommend the Wal Mart house brand of oil filter, just because it's made by company X, at $2.07 it must be a real jewel, HA!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    And you talk about my credibility? You're killin me!! :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Who knows what these guys agenda was and who did they work for."

    You are fast and loose when casting aspersions about the agendas of other folks, however, the only folks around here who seems to have an agenda are the handful of individuals that subscribe to the official Amsoil doctrine.

    "If it's on a website does that make it true?"

    Uh-huh, and if it's on your personal web site (or Amsoil's for that matter) we're supposed to believe it?

    "You're credibility went through the floor when you recommend the Wal Mart house brand of oil filter, just because it's made by company X, at $2.07 it must be a real jewel, HA!"

    There is a shortage of credibility for some folks around here, however, ruking1 has a significant amount of empirical evidence to draw upon when he posts.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • philzyphilzy Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the comeback,I used Castrol Syntec 10w-40 full
    synthetic
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    idcope:

    From sampling and testing on the bobistheoilguy website I've become a believe in the quality of some oil filters being much higher than their price implies. And I've become a believe in high-priced oil filters not meaning their better.

    The particular Walmart filter is made by a quality company. Having tried other generic brands that Walmart has contracted for I've become a believer but always with an open mind.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I believe that it has been shown that all Castrol Syntec oils are not full synthetic as they are primarily composed of Group III hydrocracked crude. The lone exception to the Syntec product line is the German made (says Made in Germany right on the label) 0W-30 European Formula. That having been said, the 10W-40 is probably a good oil for a 1980 VW Diesel. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would surmise you are getting good results with that product! The thing that comes to mind: within your oem specification/s, try a lower viscosity. More specifically, use the lower viscosity that will support a lot of those subjective things one has to live with. This can work both ways on the winter side and normal ops side. Some examples: 0w40, 0w30, 5w30.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Since I do not know the exact specifications for the 1980 diesel, I would say you can really kill two birds with one stone with the Mobil One 0w40. It does meet a myriad of current diesel specifications. The nexus to you; more likely than not, it is back wards compatible with the 1980 diesel specifications. I would also swag that Mobil One 5w40 Truck and SUV aka Delvac One 5w40 will also be good.

    For the 0w30, ELF has a host of diesel oil products. However, Elf sells at considerable premiums'. It can be complex, yet at the same time very specific. Folks who have done the oil analysis have shown GREAT numbers (less wear, by products, etc.) This is a bit controversial for some of the newer VW TDI's the 5w40 viscosity does provide film buffer (so to speak)essential for LOWER to non existent camshaft wear. It is also a well researched and actually corrected OEM recommendation .

    If cost is a parameter, off the shelf products, such as: Shell's Rotella and Rotella T (synthetic, PAO III hydro cracked) are also very good bets. They test extremely well with 10,000 and less OCI's
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Redneck noise dude. Just get a Mobil 1 filter and the soon to be announced mobil 1 5-20 enhanced performance oil and go 5k between changes or longer depending on your service.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Just get a Mobil 1 filter and the soon to be announced mobil 1 5-20 enhanced performance oil and go 5k between changes or longer depending on your service."

    Why bother? Doing the above is a total waste of money for a 5,000 mile oil change. Might just as well use a Fram filter and Dino Juice. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    I tow a small bass boat in Texas heat and only drive 10k per year. 5k = about 6 months. I prefer to be conservative.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Your situation might well indicate being conservative, however, even then I think you're probably throwing your money away. You might want to send our used oil out for a UOA at your next change. I suspect that you'll find that you can probably move to yearly oil changes and still be "conservative".

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Thanks, I'll consider that.
  • jorgecjorgec Member Posts: 6
    I have a 1996 Buick Riviera with 29,200 miles on the clock, and I'm wondering wether to go the synthetic route since the car has always used regular oil and what is your recommendation for and oil change 3 or 5 months and should I use 5w30 or 10w30.

    Thanks for the reply
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    in 3 or 5 months?
    What kind of traffic?

    Krzys
  • philzyphilzy Member Posts: 4
    thanks for all the comebacks,I went back to diesal oil,if it ain't broke don't fix it.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    You made good call. Diesels are quite different from gassers a should have diesel specific oil. Just my .02.
  • beancountantbeancountant Member Posts: 34
    You mentioned that with Mobil 1 Synthetic, 10K miles is ok for
    OCI. What would you say about Pennzoil Platinum? can I use it
    for 10k miles too? It's an '02 Accord with 43k miles on odometer. Thank You! :D
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    To be more specific, I mentioned that Mobil 1 0W-40 was good for a minimum of 10,000 miles in our two old tech 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravans. For my two BMWs that same oil was good for 15,000 miles. The two DGCs and the second of the two BMWs had those OCIs validated by UOAs. Based on the above, I feel fairly confident that that particular oil and grade will go a fairly easy 10,000 miles in most any car built in the last decade or so.

    Regarding your Accord, Hondas as a rule are fairly easy on their oil and so 10,000 miles with most synthetics is probably well within reason. That said, there is no way I would trust that little factoid with out verifying its accuracy. Were I in your shoes, I would choose your poison, err oil, run it for 5,000 miles (synthetic oils in general and Mobil 1 in particular have a tendency to do some clean-up work when first introduced into an engine that hasn't used it before), and change it out. For your second fill of your synthetic of choice I would go say 7,500 miles, take a small sample and send it in for analysis. A week or so later you'll have your proof as to whether or not that oil is good for 10,000 miles (or more) in your car.

    Keep us posted on how you make out. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    P.S.

    I specified the grade of Mobil 1 that I use simply because different grades use slightly (or not so slightly) different formulations, and as such, are not covered by the UOAs that I've had done.
  • jorgecjorgec Member Posts: 6
    I have had the car only about 28 days
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    my questions are still valid.

    How many miles do you plan to put in 3 or 5 months?
    What kind of traffic will you encounter?

    Krzys
  • ldcopeldcope Member Posts: 35
    You made good call. Diesels are quite different from gassers a should have diesel specific oil. Just my .02.

    My pleasure.
  • ldcopeldcope Member Posts: 35
     You are fast and loose when casting aspersions about the agendas of other folks, however, the only folks around here who seems to have an agenda are the handful of individuals that subscribe to the official Amsoil doctrine.

    And we don't hide our agenda we are passionate about the products and love to share.
     
     
    Uh-huh, and if it's on your personal web site (or Amsoil's for that matter) we're supposed to believe it?

    I think a reasonable person would give more credence to a company website that belongs to an outstanding company that has been in business for 35 years and could have something to lose if they were found doing deceptive trade practices as compared to a group of good old boys turned scientific oil testers, or a website that you seem to refer to at each drop of the hat called Bob's that's sponsored by oil companies.
      
    There is a shortage of credibility for some folks around here, however, ruking1 has a significant amount of empirical evidence to draw upon when he posts.

    So I can surmise this empirical evidence is if you go by his recommendations you won't be pulling a piano down the road? Or no could it be that you all have a vested interest in the Bob's sight, which is a money making operation and is not PBS online, or could it be you must own stock in WalMart, BP and Exxonmobil? It's about time to change the batteries on your empirical thesaurus.
     
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."So I can surmise this empirical evidence is if you go by his recommendations you won't be pulling a piano down the road? Or no could it be that you all have a vested interest in the Bob's sight, which is a money making operation and is not PBS online, or could it be you must own stock in WalMart, BP and Exxonmobil? It's about time to change the batteries on your empirical thesaurus."...

    Absolutely NOT for the first silly graphic. Definitely NOT for the rest of "thinly veiled " and grossly misdirected accusations of "profiteering" questions. This is a very interesting attempt at misdirection, being as how the one doing the misdirecting is in fact a self described Amsoil VENDOR !!?? If you are not, I would stand corrected.

    I would assume Amsoil vendors makes profit selling AMSOIL products and who would get residual income from "recruits" to the "MLM WAY" multiple level marketing. Indeed, among others, Amsoil vendors advertise and market freely on Bobistheoilguy.com.

    Indeed when ANY (an Amsoil) vendor takes extreme umbrage to an administrative housekeeping logistical almost (in my opinion)NON issue, I would say I did a service in the spirit of "Buyer Beware".

    Incidently, the question has yet to be answered. When the product has been shown to be depleted by oil analysis kits showing Amsoil to be depleted at 14,000 miles, when the product is guaranteed for 25,000 miles: as is in reference to the 18,000 mile Camaro Amsoil vs Mobil One "shoot out", how does one get Amsoil products replaced?
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Your post made no sense at all...what are you trying to say? I've read all your posts and honestly, you use so much double speak and nonsensible words it's just amazing. How can anyone use so many words and say nothing. If you truly are a salesman for this product, you are in the wrong business. A true salesman gets his messege across in such an easy, understandable way that customers want to buy his product. Personally, I'd never buy anything from you.
    Am I alone here in not being able to understand anything this guy says???

    The Sandman :confuse: :confuse:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."when the product is guaranteed for 25,000 miles: as is in reference to the 18,000 mile Camaro Amsoil vs Mobil One "shoot out", how does one get Amsoil products replaced? "...

    I guess it does NOT!!???
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    "I think a reasonable person would give more credence to a company website that belongs to an outstanding company that has been in business for 35 years and could have something to lose if they were found doing deceptive trade practices as compared to a group of good old boys turned scientific oil testers, or a website that you seem to refer to at each drop of the hat called Bob's that's sponsored by oil companies."

    I bet it is the same line of thought the ENRON stockholders had before it sunk.

    Nothing frees you from using your own head. You love Amsoil - drink it. Just do not claim that everything else is junk.

    Krzys
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Can't beat this price to performance! It's certainly good enough for my fairly short oci's.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I'm in the middle of an oil change on my 06 Accord for the first time. I collected about 300 mL of the oil. Can someone tell me which lab is the best and how much oil I should send? Thanks.

    The car has over 6K miles. The oil minder is at 30%. The oil looks DARK! I'm dying to find out that the oil analysis says.
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    I like Blackstone Labs. I'm not sure how much they need but they'll send you the kit to put the sample in if you request it from their website. Don't worry about the color of the oil... it doesn't mean much.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I don't have time to wait for their free kit. Can I send the sample in in a box? It sounds like I'm supposed to fill out a form. I can't find it on their website (blackstone). Also the website doesn't say how I should pay for it, by check?
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    Read their FAQs. I think it says what you can send it in if you don't have the sample kit. The form & pricing is on the website somewhere.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I mailed out the oil this afternoon to Blackstone to have it analysed. I requested TBN too. I can't wait to find out what the report says. This was the first oil change on my 06 Accord VP 4-cyl at 6178 miles with the oil life minder at 30%. It looked pitch black and very light weighted (flowed like water). I'm causiously optimistic and hope the Honda engineers knew what they were doing when they recommended this kind of oil change intervals. We'll find out soon. If it were up to my local dealer, I wouldn't be due for an oil change for probably another 2K miles.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    I would expect it as Honda uses 5W20 or 0W20.

    Krzys
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Whatever happened to STP? :shades:
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I have a 97 Chrysler Town & Country 3.8 with 148K miles on it.My last oil change I used a synthetic/petro mix.I would like to use Mobil 1 my next oil change.Is this a good idea,and if so what weight should I use.I dont drive this vehicle much,so I dont change the oil any more that twice a year regardless of the miles,which usually is less than 1000 in that period of time.I would guesstimate that 90% of the 148K is highway. :confuse:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    We have two DGCs with the 3.8, one of which is a 1998 and has a little over 133,000 on the clock (but will catch you in mileage by September). I've been running Mobil 1 0W-40 in both vans for several years (and other weights of Mobil 1 prior to that) and had a couple of Used Oil Analysis (UOA) performed on each van, one each at 7,500 miles on the oil (no make-up oil required) and one each at 11,000 miles on the oil (one quart make-up oil for each van), and the UOAs all looked stellar indicating that the oil could go for 13,000 miles or more.

    Said another way, this oil is showing itself to be VERY compatible with our engines, winter or summer, urban crawl or high speed rural highway, it makes no matter. For your van (did I read that correctly, 1,000 miles per year?) my bet is that the Mobil 1 0W-40 (which is considered to be a "light" 40) will perform very well.

    On a slightly different tack, if it's true that you are only driving 1,000 miles per year, how long does the van sit between starts? I ask because synthetic oil isn't necessarily the best oil to use if the van is going to sit for months at a time. The problem here is that the synthetic oil is so good at keeping the innards of the engine clean that the ordinary varnish that forms from conventional oil is washed away and kept away. Not necessarily a bad thing in a high use vehicle, however, that same varnish can protect internal engine parts from rust and corrosion that WILL threaten an infrequently used engine.

    My general rule of thumb is this: for my limited use engines (garden tractor, lawn mower, snow blower and generator) I use conventional oil, and for my high use engines (cars), I use Mobil 1 0W-40 (or German made Castrol Syntec 0W-30).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    My general rule of thumb is this: for my limited use engines (garden tractor, lawn mower, snow blower and generator) I use conventional oil, and for my high use engines (cars), I use Mobil 1 0W-40 (or German made Castrol Syntec 0W-30).

    What do you think about car that gets limited mileage put on it, but is still run frequently? One case would be a vehicle that is driven daily but mostly on short trips (less than 5 miles) and gets maybe 3000 miles in a year. Another would be longer trips (eg. typical daily use being 10 miles each way to work and back), but still only 6000-8000 miles per year.
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