You wrote: not sure what above poster means the oil could leak thru rings into chamber when car sits
I read several postings on the Impala board, that if the car sits two-three days or longer, there is a smoke for several seconds after starting engine. An oil smoke. No smoke if the car is used every day.
Please forgive a dead dino user for posting, but, as I understand it, at one time Castrol marketed a synthetic oil that some people (and Mobil) didn't consider it to be a true, full synthetic oil. From lurking around these posts, it seems that many people remain leery of synthetic Castrol because of this brough-ha-ha, regardless of its present formulation. Steve Host SUV and Vans Message Boards
Has been manufacturing a full synthetic since forever. Why switch to someone who has been doing in for only a year? (if they are actually doing it now) As far as the questions above on which weight to use. First follow the guidelines in the owner's manual. Then realize that any of the syn weights will flow down to Antartic temperatures and that in hot climates they all act like 30 Weights at operating conditions. The plain truth is you can flip a coin. I live in Pennsylvania and several years ago we had -20 F stuff. 10W30 was fine with car parked outside. Relax.
They still do not make a full synthetic. The Syntec, as noted in Car & Driver, Nov issue is a reformulated dino oil where they re arrange the molecules to simulate a syntheic. Sorry, false and misleading advertising and they still have the nerve to charge $4/quart.
Stay away from companies that fail to inform the public about the rue nature of their product. It is not synthetic!!!!
A factory advertising magazine from Toyota came yesterday. It mentioned - change your oil at 5000 miles, and said if you are using synthetic, change at 6000.
I have been using Mobil 1 5w-30 for a long time and never had a sludge problem. The problem that you are talking about was in aviation engines using Mobil's Synthetic for aviation. This was due to an incompatibility with the lead in the fuel. This has nothing to do with automotive engines.
I have a T&C that will have the 60k service done tonight. It has the regular oil as far as I know ever since, and was wondering whether the change to Mobil1 would be beneficial or not? Thanks for your responses.
but the facts are that if you want better engine protection well beyond conventional oils syn is the way to go. I would do a gradual switch like 30% to 50% syn to regular oil for the first couple of changes. Synthetics clean up the engine and you don't want too much gunk floating around. Change when the oil turns dark. That well may be 1,000 or 2,000 miles. Eventually you will be able to go longer between oil changes than with conventional oil and the oil will stay cleaner. You can email me if you need more info.
Several years ago Amsoil had an Aviation oil that worked very well. I don't think they had FAA-PMA approval is the reason they don't use it in Aviation engines today?. Amsoil did not have a sludge problem Why does Mobil-1 have such a sludge problem if it is so good?? aspenwhite: I have a PF like yours and I have used Valvoline synthetic sence new and it works very well. Steve from PF owers club.
I use Amsoil and have for the past 9 years, oil analysis etc. A great oil. However, the only line that has the API doughnut on it is the Series 7500XL which was designed to go 7,500 miles between changes. No other Amsoil oil, (others can go up to 25,000-35,000 between changes) do not have the doughnut. Amsoil keeps saying that this is because they do not wish to pay the big bucks to get the doughnut and (perhaps) divulge their formula.. I have argued that point for years but to no avail. They lose sales because new car owner's manuals state specifically "look for the doughnut on the container" Amsoil (except for the 7500 series) does not have it and buyers are reluctant to take the risk. My two cents worth! A great oil, the longest I have gone is 15,000 between changes and the oil was still good based on analysis. Now go anywhere from 5,000 (turbo) to 12,000 depending on the driving. Longest car on it is a 92 Camry V6 with 130,000 miles changed every 7,500, engine clean as new..
I'm not sure if the Mobil 1 sludge problem has to do w/aviation or automotive engines (#760) but I'll use Valvoline SynPower on my next oil chng at 5k miles just in case. See you at the PF club owners board. Aspenwhite
What happens if there is too much oil in the engine? I just checked my oil level and it is a bit above max. Should I remove some or does it not make much of a difference? If so, how would I go about removing it? Thanks.
Slightly above the max indicator is fine. Too much oil may cause foaming of the oil and hinder lubrication. However, 8-10 ounces is probably not a concern. You can get a small pump sold at auto parts stores and pump it out (via dipstick) if you have to and or remove the filter and replace it which will drain probably too much.
you could drain a little out via the oilpan drain.....just loosen the bolt most of the way, but leave a thread or two engaged.
Another option, loosen the bolt, then back it all the way out by hand, being careful to keep pressure on the bolt. Pull it away slightly until you've drained the correct amount, then simply thread it back in and tighten!!
Thanks for the quick responses. I've decided to just leave it, since it is only slightly above the max indication. Don't feel like getting dirty again to drain half a quart or less.
Like armtdm says 8-10 ounces would be no problem. You figure they need to have some margin of error with the spuds that screw up anything known to man with a car. I normally put about four ounces above the recommended level to get a little more oil in there. Just an old habit.
The problem with Avation Mobil 1 and Aviation engines/fuel is unrelated to Mobil 1 and automotive use. Mobil has puplished a paper in the SAE where in 1991 their oil was exceeding specifications in Quadruple-Length Sequence IIIE Tests and Double Length Sequence VE Tests. These tests are standards for sludge buildup and engine wear. These test results have not been duplicated/published by any other manufactures. Email me and I'll give you the info. Later
adc100: I have overhauled several aviation piston engines. Breakin oil is non-deturgent and used 50-100 hrs. without any problems. What if any difference is there in automotive oil and Aviation oil?? Not much. In the web-sight on sludge from AV-1 they commented about stuck oil control rings,main and rod bearings showed lubrication distress,severe cam lobe wear & spalling,ect. Their rationale was 100% synthetic oil is a superb lubricant but a lousy cleaner! I am using 100% synthetic in my SUV and blended oil in my others. But none with Mobil-1. Steve
will use the oil we are comfortable with. At least we agree that syn is better than dino oil. I have used Mobil 1 for almost 10 years with outstanding results. I use it because of the info in the SAE technical paper above. BTW it's #951026. Like I said I have read nothing technical to prove to me that anything is better. If I do, I'll be the first to eject Mobil 1.
There is a diff between avaition and automotive oil but I do not know what it is. Just like SJ versus SH. The SH I believe contains less of one additive (if you read the big to do that Harley has put forth on why not to use SH in Harley motorcycle engines) it has to do with air cooled engines running hotter and the SH , lacking the same amount of additive as the SJ, does not do the job. They claim the additive package was reduced to produce better mpg but hinders lubrication in their air cooled engines. For average user the higher letter designation is usually the better one to use for auto engines.
I believe all motor oil for gasoline engines are Service SJ nowadays. Even the Walmart brand are SJ. I recently changed the oil on my rider mower and because that is an air cooled engine, I had to use SAE 30 Weight oil. On the other hand if I wanted to use it in the winter as a snow plow, then I have to drain out the SAE 30 and put in 5w-30 since the manual says SAE 30 is too thick for winter and 5w-30 is not sufficient for air cooled engine during the summer heat.
This discussion is getting interesting. I have been using Mobil1 in my 1994 Camry since the first oil change (500 miles). It is now about 130,000 miles. Recently, the engine developed a noise from inside the timing belt cover and my mechanics changed the timing belt, pulleys, and water pump. After that the noise got louder and the mechanic suspects that the cam lobe gear is wearing down. I am still driving the car, but now I change the oil (mobil 1) every 3000 miles instead 5000 miles wishing it won't break down.
My commens earleir about SH not having the same amount of additives as the SJ should have been reversed. The SJ does not have the same amount as the SH and Harley recopmmends the SH for better protection. As to cahning the Mobil 1 more often then in the past due to some wear, I don not feel that it will make any difference. I am sure the Mobil 1 (like the Amsoil I use) is still perfectly fine at 5,000 and 7.500 and did not cause additional wear. I too have 130,000 on a 92 Camry V6 using Amsoil since 1,000 miles changed at 7,500 mile intervals
My friend has a Ford pick-up truck. Can't recall which model though. Anyway, his wife goes on a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles with it. On the way the radiator hose breaks and the engine loses coolant. The driver doesn't notice anything until the truck loses power and comes to a stop. By that time smoke is billowing out of the engine. The engine has got so hot the oil has boiled and pushed up out of the oil filler pipe onto the exhaust manifold. The engine compartment is dripping with oil.
The truck is towed to the nearest garage and the mechanic declares the engine is fried and a new one is needed. He didn't open it. My friend has the truck towed back to his house and takes off the cylinder head. The cylinder bores still show hone marks. There is no evidence of scoring. The only thing damaged is the head gasket. He replaces that, drains the remaining oil and, fills up with Mobil 1 again and 2 years later the truck is still going strong.
Moral of the story? Use Mobil 1. If he had been using dino oil the engine would have been fried.
This is one place where synthetic has an advantage--extreme heat...but really, the engine only survived because the oil was able to do the cooling for a little bit...once the synthetic got hot enough, the engine would have seized. He was very lucky. The oil film obviously stayed on the metal surfaces. Had the engine seized, it would have stayed seized, of course.
My Porsche engine seized with synthetic oil, but it was an air-cooled engine, so that could have been an entirely different dynamic going on there.
I never use synthetic in normal use, as I am convinced it does me no good in everyday driving, but when I run across the desert in summer, I put it in.
If you ask why I wouldn't use synthetic for the type of protection the guy got in his pickup, I'd have to say that I would never let my engine overheat as he did in the first place. You've got to watch your gauges on modern cars...modern alloy engines give you very little slack for overheating damage, synthetic oil or no.
Well, it wasn't my friend himself who let it overheat. I agree that one should not let it happen. I also agree that the engine would have seized eventually. I was just showing the protection an engine can get from synthetic oil.
Which reminds of another story that happend to me. I was travelling at night on a lonely road sometime in the 1960's and it was pouring with rain - play spooky music while you read this. My concentration was on the road ahead and I failed to look at my gages. I thought I smelt burning rubber but ignored it. Many miles further on the car lost power and came to a halt. I glanced down but my gages including the temperature gage all showed normal. To cut a long story short, a radiator hose had burst and the coolant had leaked out. Why did the temperature gage still read normal? Because the sensor wasn't surrounded by coolant anymore and was in fact only measuring the temperature of the hot air around it. It was one of those rear engined er..Renault Dauphines. Funny little thing. But hey, it had a wet sleeved engine and sleeves and matching pistons were cheap! But I digress....
What was the rubber smell? The hoses had melted onto the coolant inlet and outlet on the engine. And what about the engine? Only the head gasket had blown! What was the secret of no further damage? STP had come onto the market in the country where I lived at that time. I had poured a container full into my engine oil. If I recall correctly, STP is also some synthetic concoction. I firmly believe that is what saved my engine.
Oh, you won't get any belief from me about STP--I think that stuff is pure VOODOO in a can...if you've ever opened up an engine that had STP used in it regularly, you'd be shocked as to what a mess it makes in there....HOWEVER, that being said, I have used it, mixed with oil, to lubricate new bearings going into an engine...as it is incredibly sticky for a few minutes at engine start-up.
So I have used it's GOO properties to advantage, but I don't think it does any good whatsoever...you got lucky is my theory....also both these "survival" stories seem to be related to big, heavy iron blocks on older cars or trucks....they are hard to kill from overheating, due to their crudity (how can you hurt a wood stove with fire?) while modern engines have little tolerance for it.
What do you folks think about Walmart brand synthetic oil? they have synthetic blend as well. both are significantly less expensive than the brand names.
Check to see if the Walmart oil is real synthetic or synthetic blend.
RE; Texas---yeah, I know it gets hot, but I've driven my Alfa is 100 degree Nevada heat with regular oil, day after day at high speeds, and never had a problem. That being said, if I wasn't so lazy at the time, I would have used synthetic for that type of driving, but I never thought it was the difference between having trouble in the desert and not having trouble...it was just a question of that little extra insurance under extreme conditions.
Normal engine oil is used in race cars going close to 200 mph, so I think it can handle anything we normally do as drivers on city or county roads.
I have to agree with you as far as synthetic being overkill for most of us.
I've been using Mobil 1 in my car ('97 Mazda 626 2.5L V-6, 5-spd) since the first oil change, and every 4k miles thereafter, and I've not noticed any earthshattering benefits. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm throwing money away!!
But, I decided this would be a long-term experiment, so I'll continue.....
Of course, to make this a true experiment, I'd need another identical in which dino. oil was used under similar driving conditions for a comparison.....
So, my advice? Buy Mobil's stock and reap the benefits of my curiosity!!!
Yea, hard to tell the truth from the misleading advertising. However, to my knowledge of the major brands only Castrol is not a synthetic. However, as the price is about the same for all brands stick with Mobil 1. I use Amsoil but I would use Mobil 1 if I could not get Amsoil quickly.
oil. You don't always get what you pay for but in the case of Mobil 1 and Amzoil its worth it. I personally prefer Mobil 1 because I have read a lot of their technical data and testing results. Also like armtdm, I would use Amzoil if Mobil 1 was not available. Castrol is a bunch of shysters IMHO.
I wouldn't use STP today. But remember, I was talking about the 1960's when it first came out. I don't believe any oil was much good in those days. I only use Mobil 1 in my cars now and never put any additives in.
Which brings me another story. In the 1950's I used to use William Penn oil - today's Pennzoil maybe? My car was a British Morris Ten. (har har har) Anyway, the reason I used it was because it had a nice green color which stayed that way till the next oil change. One day I happened to take the valve cover off. Well, I saw why the oil stayed so clean. It simply left all the sludge in the engine. It looked like a great black block of jello under there. It wasn't a detergent oil at all. But what did we know about oil in those days anyway? So you see, even STP must have been better than that.
I also remember when I was a kid-early fifties- a neighbor was tearing down his engine. I didn't know what I was looking at then. But under the valve cover was s-o-l-i-d, like you said- black jellow-yikes!!! Also remember a friend of mine had a 57 Fury-I believe. He poured a can of STP down the carburator as it ran!!!!!!!!!!!! I was there-neither of us knew any better. The thing smoked so bad and after that the car always smoked. Probably did some ring damage.
Racing---I think you could pick out any race car at random and find them using "regular" high quality racing-spec'd oil. Of course, many use synthetic also...depends on sponsorship and personal view of the engine builders I'd guess. If you pinned me down to particulars, I would feel safe to guess that the Mazda that won Lemans didn't use synthetic, as synthetic is not recommended for rotary engines. Next time I see a NASCAR car, I will definitely ask! I know my friends who race SCCA don't all use it, but I will ask a buddy who just finished racing at Daytona what he uses and let you know.
Comments
I read several postings on the Impala board, that if the car sits two-three days or longer, there is a smoke for several seconds after starting engine. An oil smoke. No smoke if the car is used every day.
Impala have the 3800 V-6 engine.
Steve
Host
SUV and Vans Message Boards
Stay away from companies that fail to inform the public about the rue nature of their product. It is not synthetic!!!!
It mentioned - change your oil at 5000 miles, and said if you are using synthetic, change at 6000.
I don't think they had FAA-PMA approval is the reason they don't
use it in Aviation engines today?. Amsoil did not have a sludge problem Why does Mobil-1 have such a sludge problem if it is so good??
aspenwhite: I have a PF like yours and I have used Valvoline
synthetic sence new and it works very well. Steve from PF owers club.
I'm not sure if the Mobil 1 sludge problem has to do w/aviation or automotive engines (#760) but I'll use Valvoline SynPower on my next oil chng at 5k miles just in case. See you at the PF club owners board. Aspenwhite
Another option, loosen the bolt, then back it all the way out by hand, being careful to keep pressure on the bolt. Pull it away slightly until you've drained the correct amount, then simply thread it back in and tighten!!
Later
Later
is non-deturgent and used 50-100 hrs. without any problems. What if any
difference is there in automotive oil and Aviation oil?? Not much. In the web-sight
on sludge from AV-1 they commented about stuck oil control rings,main and rod
bearings showed lubrication distress,severe cam lobe wear & spalling,ect.
Their rationale was 100% synthetic oil is a superb lubricant but a lousy cleaner!
I am using 100% synthetic in my SUV and blended oil in my others. But none
with Mobil-1. Steve
If I do, I'll be the first to eject Mobil 1.
Later
I have been using Mobil1 in my 1994 Camry since the first oil change (500 miles). It is now about 130,000 miles. Recently, the engine developed a noise from inside the timing belt cover and my mechanics changed the timing belt, pulleys, and water pump. After that the noise got louder and the mechanic suspects that the cam lobe gear is wearing down. I am still driving the car, but now I change the oil (mobil 1) every 3000 miles instead 5000 miles wishing it won't break down.
As to cahning the Mobil 1 more often then in the past due to some wear, I don not feel that it will make any difference. I am sure the Mobil 1 (like the Amsoil I use) is still perfectly fine at 5,000 and 7.500 and did not cause additional wear. I too have 130,000 on a 92 Camry V6 using Amsoil since 1,000 miles changed at 7,500 mile intervals
when they had the valve covers off?
The truck is towed to the nearest garage and the mechanic declares the engine is fried and a new one is needed. He didn't open it. My friend has the truck towed back to his house and takes off the cylinder head. The cylinder bores still show hone marks. There is no evidence of scoring. The only thing damaged is the head gasket. He replaces that, drains the remaining oil and, fills up with Mobil 1 again and 2 years later the truck is still going strong.
Moral of the story? Use Mobil 1. If he had been using dino oil the engine would have been fried.
My Porsche engine seized with synthetic oil, but it was an air-cooled engine, so that could have been an entirely different dynamic going on there.
I never use synthetic in normal use, as I am convinced it does me no good in everyday driving, but when I run across the desert in summer, I put it in.
If you ask why I wouldn't use synthetic for the type of protection the guy got in his pickup, I'd have to say that I would never let my engine overheat as he did in the first place. You've got to watch your gauges on modern cars...modern alloy engines give you very little slack for overheating damage, synthetic oil or no.
Which reminds of another story that happend to me. I was travelling at night on a lonely road sometime in the 1960's and it was pouring with rain - play spooky music while you read this. My concentration was on the road ahead and I failed to look at my gages. I thought I smelt burning rubber but ignored it. Many miles further on the car lost power and came to a halt. I glanced down but my gages including the temperature gage all showed normal. To cut a long story short, a radiator hose had burst and the coolant had leaked out. Why did the temperature gage still read normal? Because the sensor wasn't surrounded by coolant anymore and was in fact only measuring the temperature of the hot air around it. It was one of those rear engined er..Renault Dauphines. Funny little thing. But hey, it had a wet sleeved engine and sleeves and matching pistons were cheap! But I digress....
What was the rubber smell? The hoses had melted onto the coolant inlet and outlet on the engine. And what about the engine? Only the head gasket had blown! What was the secret of no further damage? STP had come onto the market in the country where I lived at that time. I had poured a container full into my engine oil. If I recall correctly, STP is also some synthetic concoction. I firmly believe that is what saved my engine.
Oh, you won't get any belief from me about STP--I think that stuff is pure VOODOO in a can...if you've ever opened up an engine that had STP used in it regularly, you'd be shocked as to what a mess it makes in there....HOWEVER, that being said, I have used it, mixed with oil, to lubricate new bearings going into an engine...as it is incredibly sticky for a few minutes at engine start-up.
So I have used it's GOO properties to advantage, but I don't think it does any good whatsoever...you got lucky is my theory....also both these "survival" stories seem to be related to big, heavy iron blocks on older cars or trucks....they are hard to kill from overheating, due to their crudity (how can you hurt a wood stove with fire?) while modern engines have little tolerance for it.
RE; Texas---yeah, I know it gets hot, but I've driven my Alfa is 100 degree Nevada heat with regular oil, day after day at high speeds, and never had a problem. That being said, if I wasn't so lazy at the time, I would have used synthetic for that type of driving, but I never thought it was the difference between having trouble in the desert and not having trouble...it was just a question of that little extra insurance under extreme conditions.
Normal engine oil is used in race cars going close to 200 mph, so I think it can handle anything we normally do as drivers on city or county roads.
I've been using Mobil 1 in my car ('97 Mazda 626 2.5L V-6, 5-spd) since the first oil change, and every 4k miles thereafter, and I've not noticed any earthshattering benefits. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm throwing money away!!
But, I decided this would be a long-term experiment, so I'll continue.....
Of course, to make this a true experiment, I'd need another identical in which dino. oil was used under similar driving conditions for a comparison.....
So, my advice? Buy Mobil's stock and reap the benefits of my curiosity!!!
handle anything we normally do as drivers on city or county roads"
Would you please specify what race cars you're talking about.
Thanks.
Walmart has both fully synthetic and synthetic blend. Both costs significantly less than the name brands.
Vadp,
I think Mr. Shiftright meant the Radio Shack remote controlled race cars going at 200mph (to scale).
Don't know about WalMArt, ask who makes it?
Which brings me another story. In the 1950's I used to use William Penn oil - today's Pennzoil maybe? My car was a British Morris Ten. (har har har) Anyway, the reason I used it was because it had a nice green color which stayed that way till the next oil change. One day I happened to take the valve cover off. Well, I saw why the oil stayed so clean. It simply left all the sludge in the engine. It looked like a great black block of jello under there. It wasn't a detergent oil at all. But what did we know about oil in those days anyway? So you see, even STP must have been better than that.