Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Synthetic motor oil

12122242627175

Comments

  • itsmeagainitsmeagain Member Posts: 11
    has 6-pack of Mobil 1 in all weights for $22.99
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    adc100, I got my 10W30 Redline from www.manhonda.com (Honda dealership in Manchester, CT) for $6.95 + S&H per quart. Pretty good deal as I've seen it for as much as $9 per quart.

    My theory was that the "Mobil 1 GM" formula was the stuff, with an added friction modifier, that was used in the Corvette from the factory ... and possibly other cars as well. I talked to other car guys that felt Mobil was giving them the run around concerning this stuff when they called. It was a couple months ago and they acted like the 2nd formula didn't even exist.

    I have NO IDEA what is in the store-brand synthetic oils. As one other person said, I'll pay the extra $0.50 - $1.00 per quart for a name brand so I know what I'm getting.

    I used to see Mobil 1 for under $4 per quart once in a while but that seems awfully rare lately. Walmart had Mobil 1 and Valvoline in 5 gallon jugs for around $15-16 each last fall. Now THAT was a good deal!!

    --- Bror Jace
  • 5spd5spd Member Posts: 38
    The old wisdom is that if you make frequent short trips (especially during winter) your oil will eventually collect a lot of moisture and contaminant in it. which means one should change the oil more frequently.

    But is that the same with synthetic oil ? If I have a car that I use for short trips, do I have to change the oil frequently even if I have synthetic oil in it ? It costs a lot to change out synthetic oil every 3k !
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    5spd, Yes, if you make lots of short trips in which your car does not get up to full operating temperature, your crankcase will begin to accumulate moisture over time.

    Therefore, if you have a car that sits a lot, I would recommend AGAINST using synthetic oil.

    Some synthetic oils, like Redline, stress the additive package they add to their oil to deal with moisture and the acids that the moisture helps form but I still think leaving that stuff sit in there for several months is a bad idea.

    So, for people who don't drive their cars frequently or on long drives, I suggest a less expensive, mineral oil and more frequent changes. The 15W40 oils designed for diesels and gas engines (Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo-400, Mobil Delvac) are all exceptional for fighting engine corrosion because they have to deal with diesel fuel fouling of the crankscase oil and extended drain intervals. I'd recommend those unless you live where the temperature is often at freezing or below.

    --- Bror Jace
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    1992 GM 3.1 engine
    Two 3 mile trips per day. (9-13 minutes each)
    max speed 35 MPH
    No oil or filter change in 2 years.
    TBM sat at end of test (total base #)
    Oil consumption .8 quarts
    4380 miles
    Engine disassembled
    Wear-very low
    Cleanliness- excellent.

    No sludge here!!
    Granted 3.1 engine is an excellent engine.

    This would be beyond my comfort level.
    Doing a longer trip every now and then would be a better than this condition above. At least this gives you the worst. One change every 10-12months and a filter every 5 or 6 months should be more than adequate.
  • 5spd5spd Member Posts: 38
    Thanks for your response. My other question is : is synthetic oil (Mobil 1 in my case) any better in fighting moisture accumulation ?

    Brorjace : I agree that in a car that makes frequent short trips, frequent dino oil changes might be better than extended changes with expensive synthetic. But I still don't want to give up the benefits of using synthetic. So it's a dilemma.

    Will it help if I make a long trip once every week ?

    ADC100 : don't you think it is just that particular GM engine is simply better than others ? Or the old wisdom about changing oil more often for frequent short trips is no longer valid for modern engines ?
  • rkpattrkpatt Member Posts: 23
    I just came back from the store with some Mobil 1 to switch from mineral oil in my 2000 Honda Odyessy with 8000 mi (this with be the 4th oil and filter changing driving habits similar to yours and read your message and the replies so far. I have nothing to add but it is great question . I guess I'll follow the thread and flip a coin.
  • jukeboxcarl2jukeboxcarl2 Member Posts: 35
    Several years ago I read a paper on Syn Oils. It stated that PAO had a tendency to shrink engine seals and ESTER base had a tendency to swell engine seals. Therefore it was desirable to have a combination of both in engineering an oil. At that time Mobil 1 had PAO and AMSOIL had ESTER base. I have used them both in the past but I just could not keep them in the crankcase long enough to justify the cost. Now I use Dino and change oil and filter at 3-4k miles.
  • jukeboxcarl2jukeboxcarl2 Member Posts: 35
    There is no doubt Synthetic is great stuff. But unless you are operating your vehicles under extream conditions its overkill. I think you are better off changing it often and getting rid of the contaminants etc. Just my 2cents.Do what ever makes you happy.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I know syn is just so much better, I am not going to use regular oil again...period. The cost is not an issue when I look at potential costs to repair a vehicle. I don't know if that GM engine is any better than others. I can only look at the conclusions. I have never done an oil test on any of my vehicles. Perhaps I should. But if the oil is clear enough to see the dipstick. That means to me that suspended solids are low. If Irons would be high the engine is headed down the road and there would be little I could do about it. I will not change syn oil when it is clean to the eye- analysis be damned. I am not recommending this policy to others. But this has worked for me through the years. I have never had an engine go bad when oil stayed clean for longer periods of time.
  • rkpattrkpatt Member Posts: 23
    While cleaning out my garage yesterday, I came upon upon a six pack of Slick 50 brand 10w30 full synthetic (yellow) bottles that I bough several years ago on sale and never used and I got buried in junk I forgot that I had it. I would like to use it up now in my 2000 Honda Odyessy instead of the Mobil 1 I just bought - I think 10w30 would be OK since it is spring and I live in Atlanta,GA. Am I tanking a big risk using this stuff ? Thanks
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I thought they only had their "snake oil" business. I have never seen their engine oil anywhere.

    If your engine calls for a 5w30 WELL, If the oil is synthetic and SH rated give it a try
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1143

    On the Corvette LS6 engine, the oem fill is 5-30W Mobil One. To date with 7.6k on the clock, this LS6 is far departed from break in (500 miles) and running flawlessly.

    (the oil was changed at app 1600 miles,{still have some vestiges of listening to old wives tales})
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    5spd, yes, a long trip (at least an hour) once a week ... or every other week ... would help boil off the contminants inside your motor's crankcase. Just make sure your PCV valve is clean and functioning properly. You should be able to hear it rattle when you shake it.

    jukeboxcarl2, I have a 1.5L Civic that I run at 75-80 mph for sometimes hours at a time. When I'm on long drives like this, I feel a LOT better knowing I have synthetic oil in my motor ... and as I pointed out, it doesn't cost much, if any, more money to use the stuff compared to the total expense of keeping a vehicle on the road these days.

    --- Bror Jace
  • juresjures Member Posts: 42
    i am planning to start putting mobil 1 10w30 in my wife's 99 explorer, it has been on dino oil for 30k miles. any words of advice not to switch to mobil 1. thanks roger
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    If you read previous posts you'll learn a lot from both advocates and nay-sayers of syn. I would just switch, use a good filter-Pure One, Mobil 1, Delco Ultraguard, or Amsiol. Be aware that for the first couple of changes to syn, the oil will get darker quicker than perhaps conventional motot oil. Thereafter it will stay cleaner much longer if your engine is sound.

    Bror Jace: thanks for the info on manhonda/Redline. I looked at the Redline site a little closer and one thing stuck out to me. They never compared their 10W-30 product to 10W-30 syn oil. Correct me if I am wrong. BTW I am still planning to try their 10W-30 product as you are.

    Regards,
    Al
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    '00 Chevy C2500 5.7L slightly modified pick-up since first change at 3000 mi. Use the AC Delco UPF filters. Truck is
    driven 95% on freeway, oil level full at each change, very dark. Truck running flawlessly so far at 20,000 mi.

    Have used Pennzoil Performax and the new PENNZANE in prior trucks with flawless results. Know friends and
    neighbors that have used all types, Syn, Dino with great and not so great results. IMHO depends on vehicle.

    Buying any new vehicle is a CRAP SHOOT, you never know if you will get a lemon, making high end oil changes
    a futile gesture.....

    If you plan to keep vehicle 10-100 years go SYN, if not, DINO should be fine unless you want the next purchaser of your
    vehicle to have the best that you can give....
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    If you read previous posts you'll learn a lot from both advocates and nay-sayers of syn. I would just switch, use a good filter-Pure One, Mobil 1, Delco Ultraguard, or Amsiol. Be aware that for the first couple of changes to syn, the oil will get darker quicker than perhaps conventional motot oil. Thereafter it will stay cleaner much longer if your engine is sound.

    Bror Jace: thanks for the info on manhonda/Redline. I looked at the Redline site a little closer and one thing stuck out to me. They never compared their 10W-30 product to 10W-30 syn oil. Correct me if I am wrong. BTW I am still planning to try their 10W-30 product as you are.

    Regards,
    Al
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    Jures, you should be fine to switch with no prep or anything special to worry about.

    adc100, I'll have to take a look at their site to see exactly what they're saying.

    For the record, I thought their site was good ... not perfect. I wish they did more direct comparisons between their oils and the competition in the same grade. >;^)

    --- Bror Jace
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Yea, I agree but that just caught my attention. I am wondering if their 10W30 and 5W30 are different somehow?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    HAving used synthetics for 9 years I have been on the look out for comparisons between synthetics. None of the synthetic companies use honest marketing tactics. They only compare (in my opinion) oils that they know that their own product is superior. This is true of Mobil, Amsoil and RedLine. No weight by weight comparisons and if they do they hand pick which tests to show you, never ever give you the full range of results because I am sure that they do not exceed the competition in all of them. Selective test results are provided. All of them, not just RedLine do this. It would take a truly independent lab with outside funding to test the oils because every comparison I have seen to date has been biased by who they compare it to and which results they show. Need a lab not funded by the manufacturing oil company!
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    with that. The older I get the less I trust things that I read. And that goes for all products. The most unbiased I have seen however does come from Mobil. Their report was submitted and accepted by SAE. There were some oils which beat out their 2 nd generation oils in some catagories. Unfortunately you could not find out their names. Needless to say however the majority of tests indicated that Mobil was the better product. The purpose of this paper was to give the methodology of developiing what Mobil 1 considers to be the Industry Standard syn Oil. We can certainly argue that point though, for reasons you have sited.

    Al
  • pepper32pepper32 Member Posts: 23
    If you are concerned about the price of synthetic oil find an oil jobber in your area. I buy chevron for $21 a case. Most jobbers sell other brands if chevron is not available in your area. Check the yellow pages.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    What is an oil jobber?
  • tc93tc93 Member Posts: 19
    I would suspect that if any oil mfg. caught wind of such a test by an independent lab with independent funding, the big co. would tie up the lab in the courts indefinitely, effectively enjoining them from publishing ANY meaningful independent data. Perhaps the closest we, the "common folk," got to an independent look see into at just how well a syn. performs (vs. a conventional oil) was the Consumer Reports test done perhaps in the mid-90's. The report was so disappointing! The magazine took such a lame and middle of the road position that I suspected they were fearful of some sort of legal action from the big oil companies. That's just my idle speculation.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I think that you are correct! Same reason that Mobil squashed advertising their Mobil 1 for 25,000 miles. It first came out that way then it quietly went away. I think it was due to their dino side fearing profit decline and from other oil companies and auto service depts.putting pressure on Mobil to cool it!
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    adc100, I think you see very little comparisons between the 5W30 and 10W30 oils because Redline has mostly appealed to the racers and guys running the heavier oils ... and those are the grades that they test most often. That's just a guess, though.

    Pepper, is Chevron synthetic isomerized/heavily hydrocracked mineral oil or is it real/traditional synthetic? I know Chevron is a pioneer in heavily processing petroleum oils (masquerading as 'synthetic'), that's why I ask.

    --- Bror Jace
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    We'll probably never know. But it was strange since they did put their 10W30 on two charts and did not have any 10W30 syn competing oils anywhere. Anywaw, I do plan on ordering some from the Manhonda place you recommended-thanks for that. When do plan on using it and do you have any thoughts on how to evaluate comparisons between Mobil1/ Valvoline/Redline? Unfortunately I will have little means of comparing because my '94 Corsica now belongs to my daughter and it will be difficult to compare because of her different driving conditions. My Sentra is new. My '94 Toyota gets changed fairly frequently (7 to 10 months) because the rings just are not right. Perhaps Redline can help this [non-permissible content removed]. Hopefully we can compare notes.
    If we could get Armtdm to try it our data base could be bigger. But he's too in love with Amsoil (just kidding). Hey..anybody else out there use Redline???? No Redline dealers-please.

    Al
    Al
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Actually, I would be willing to try it on one of my cars but quite honestly, getting it is a problem for me as it has to be mail order and at $6.75/Quart plus shipping it is pretty steep. I will think about it though. I have used the gear oil and that stuff is fantastic.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    I don't understand. What are going to "compare"?
    Compare the oil analysis results on the same car using different brands of oil?
    I put RedLine 10W30 in my car at the 10,000 mile mark. Made the second change at 17,000.
    BTW I bought a case of that oil (12 bottles) for something like $ 5.99 a quart at Eurasian.
    As understand they increased their price a little since then. I guess it's now about $6.50
    I also use RedLine gear oil.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I don't really have an answer here. What did you use before the Redline? Any difference in gas milage, did the oil stay cleaner? How about oil consumption. Did the engine run cooler?
  • alanwagenalanwagen Member Posts: 28
    It is like this, take your hands and put them front of you 4 inches apart and rub. Now take your hand and do the same thing except 6 inches apart. That is the difference between dino and synth' oil. I have used both and found out that they both get dirty so you still have to change them about the same intervals. Synthetic oil is really mostly hype and not necessary.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    I changed the factory oil at 5,000 mile mark. The oil level went from the Full on the day of purchase down to the Low mark when I was changing oil. I filled the engine with the Motorcrart brand oil (I drive a Ford) of the recommended viscosity-5W30. I performed my next oil changed at the 10,000 mark. This time the engine burned no oil at all. I decided to go with RedLine. During all those changes I noticed no changes in gas consumption, engine noise, start up engine noise, high rpm revving abilities etc.
    After 7,000 miles the syntetic was quite dark. 70% of my driving is at the highway speeds. My next change is gonna be in 10,000 miles this time. I'll probably collect a sample and send it for analysis just to make sure that the engine has no defects. I'm perfectly comfortable with this schedule and planning to increase the intervals up to 15,000 miles. My OEM Ford filter has a Pure One filtering element. So no worries there.
    All I can say that the reason I went with the synthetic is that I believe in its qualities after everything I red on the topic. I don't think that you'll be able to notice any differences in the engine behavior. In my opinion people claiming noticable differences in gas consumption/horse power output after switching have rich imagination.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Yes they do get dirty approximately at the same time. But dark oil doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. This is when the oil analysis comes into the play.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    You should continue to use dino oil. It's apparant that you have not looked into or researched the differences between conventional oil and syn. I could tell you why syn is an order of magnitude better, but I know from experience I'd be wasting my time.

    Later,
    Al
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    If you're thinking about oil sampling, you might consider this:


    http://www.fumotovalve.com/

  • pepper32pepper32 Member Posts: 23
    dudleyr, an oil jobber is a wholesaler that sells to service stations, fast food marts, and anyone that walks in there store. Like a Sam's Club but strickly lubrication products.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I have two of these in use, really easy to change the oil once installed, no more plugs or mess taking the plug out. Simply push the spring loaded lever and move it down and the oil comes out. However, it does appear that due to the way it fits in my oil pans that about 2-4 additional ounces of oil cannot be drained out, not quite sure.

    For a newer car or thsoe that change their oil frequently a defenite "buy"
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    as you said, not all the oil comes out. Really...how much effort is it to remove and reinstall one drain plug?? One thing which is mandatory is to have an oil change pan whereby the plug doesn't fall in the oil when removed. Also I have heard of these quick plugs failing. I have not verified this however.
  • jukeboxcarl2jukeboxcarl2 Member Posts: 35
    I too agree with Alanwagon. There is no doubt Synthetic Oils are better, I used to be an AMSOIL dealer. Unless you are operating in harsh conditions, regular oil will take care of business just fine. Would you wash your car with a bucket of dirty water? The only way I would extend an oil change interval would be after the warranty period is up, and if I were using additional filtering. Otherwise your better off changing oil and filter 3-4k miles. Check out what lubrication engineers tell you. Also SAE and ASTM testing of oils. Dino with SJ is good for most.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Any links?
    Thanks.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I worked with "Lubrication Engineers" in my former working life...Thats why I use syn now.

    Yea...How about that link for "Lubricating Engineers" ????
  • fivespeedfivespeed Member Posts: 42
    just wrote that when synthetic oil is put into a car that does not use it, that it can cause oil seepage leaks. They also said varnish and gunk loosen up and move about. My warning is this:

    It may be better idea not to put any synthetic stuff in at all. When that motor came from the factory it didn't have no fake oil in it.

    And, where does varnish and gunk go after being removed? If it go into the filter then it seems like oil will have to be changed more often. FWIW * If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

    Synthetic stuff costs alot too. Much more than regular oil. Many say there is not no substantial documented proof that it works any better than petroleum oil. Toyota don't say anything about it in their owner book. Is it just a "cult" thing? What's the big deal about syntheytic?

    Nobody wants to put something into their motor that will cause all it's joints to begin leaking oil all over the place. Leaks are awful.

    This remind me of how Arm & Hammer Baking Soda recommended folk buy their box product and then go dump it down the sink drain...it didn't do a thing. "Money down the drain", they said.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Thanks for sharing anyway.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    like a "Lubricating Engineer"
  • fivespeedfivespeed Member Posts: 42
    I am not a Lubercating Engineer", but I want to report about it. I use Valvoline and it has worked real good. I don't think it makes any sludge as some oil makes.

    I'm not sure about England, is synthetic brands used over there much??

    fivespeed
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Wow, pretty stong attitude against synthetics.
    I was very skeptical at first, 9 year's ago and started with 3000 mile changes with oil analysis and have worked my way up to different schedules based on the car. Two with 7000-10,000 miles I now do once a year, another 7500 and another at 12,000. I have reams of oil analysis print outs that show that there is basically no difference (in my cars) in wear metals, dirt, TBN, water and fuel as a % of volume etc. between 3000 mile changes and 12,000 mile changes. Over 12,000 miles I start to see some dirt build up as silicon over 32 ppm. I have become a convert but to each his own comfort level. I now go to extended drains on new cars and do not worry about any warranties.
    Also, as to seepage, well, on a new car my experience is htat it will occur around 90,000 miles and on cars converted over later in life about one year from the conversion date. Usually valve covers or oil pan gaskets and simply tightening the bolts does the trick. Who knows if this would have occurred anyway?
    As noted in multiple posts, there are no independent lab results on synthetics as there are none on petroleum oil comparisons and non on filters. So buyer beware and do what you can live with. With five cars 3000 mile changes are ridiculous, too much hassle.
  • mrgeorgemrgeorge Member Posts: 2
    What are you thinking? You had a bad experience, and then decide to write off for everyone. I’ve ran all my cars on Mobil1, wouldn’t think of anything else because of its special properties, and it keeps the engine clean. If you ran synthetic from the start you wouldn’t have a sludge problem. I have another car with 175K miles, no oil burning or leaks.
  • tc93tc93 Member Posts: 19
    I had a 1986.5 Nissan (2D21, I think, hardbody) p/u with the little 4 cyl. that I ran for 386,000 miles on Mobil 1 10W30 and OEM oil and air filters. Then someone rear-ended me and ended my personal and unofficial (and admittedly unscientific) vehicle longevity field test. I observed extended drain intervals (or what I would have considered extended drain intervals), and near the end all cylinders still pumped between 175 and 180 psi, it used no discernable amount of oil (I never had to add any make up oil) and I had no visible oil leaks. (I did have to replace 6 alternators, 3 clutches, 2 water pumps, an ECU computer - ouch! $1,200 -, but only 2 brake replacements and 3 sets of tires.) I must add, for whatever it's worth, that while I did drive it alot, I didn't abuse it. Would a coventional oil have done the same for me? I can't argue yes or no, nor would I, or could I. But, for MY money, synthetics are the way to go.
  • fivespeedfivespeed Member Posts: 42
    Good for you. If you can afford the synthetic and feel better having it in your car then that is good for you. I see that you have a expensive Mercedes-Benz CLK430. I guess if mobil was used from the onset then everything would be ok. Haven't ever read that synthetic is a bad lubercant.

    I am not currently using synthetic oil. I ran across a post in the Camry Maintenance where this guy put synthetic oil in his car and the joints of the motor started to leak oil (he says).
    Another poster said that it was normal for synthetic to start leaks in cars that normally used petroleum based oil.
    You might kindly go back and read my original post (1193) more slower. Then you might know better where I was coming from. I just wanted to notify those people who were thinking about using fake oil that there may be some unpleasent side-effects occuring if they switch from their real oil. That being the "leak seepage" that was mentioned.

    I have a used 1990 camry 4 cyl. with just over 160,000 mile on it and it has no leaks either. No motor failure. It use about a half a quart every 5,000-6,000 miles (change time). Of course, I take care of my car. I use valvoline motor oil. Synthetic oil couldn't do anything significant for it except maybe cause leaks..why chance it? Maybe some other day, some other car.

    Thanks for your advises everyone.

    Whoa, I just read the last poster number tc93. 386,000 miles on one car! Wow, I guess you call that getting your monies worth. I'd love to see what the seats looked like in that job.LOL
Sign In or Register to comment.