I'll throw my endorsement in also: If you don't mind traveling about 50-60 minutes south of Stamford to NJ, I recommend Wayne Subaru, which is not far off RT 287. It's a single line dealer (Subaru only), family run with good service. I bought my car from the owner, Bob, Jr., who sold me my car, completed the paperwork, and was actually cleaning and prepping it the day I picked it up. They are happy to order a car for you rather than push what's in stock, and Bob's helped me out with issues and repairs that were out of warranty (shhhh!).
Well, i travel often to upstate NY where I have a house, carrying all kinds of stuff up there, I drive quite expediently, therefore the lack of power in the subies couldn't cut it. My '88 XT6 had better acceleration than the GT. The Trooper doesn't roll over (that was a false statement by consumers) It get's 20mpg on the highway which isn't that much less than the GT... I also have a 2000lb boat trailer that i trail around the adirondacks which the GT wagon would have been straining. The trooper has AWD, which was a requirement for my car/truck... The seats are far superior to the subies, and the fit and finish is equivilent. The moon roof is much better than the dual moon roof in the GT wagon (why they have the front one only pop up is beyond me, I rather have none than that one) it came with the upgraded stereo and 6 disc cd standard, power driver and power passenger, skid plates (i do light off roading and the skid plates are nice) I would have had to add at least $1000-$2000 to the GT price to get the amenities of the trooper, and still not have the power.
Sorry to say it but SOA needs more power, the 4 bangers can't compare to the 3.3l SVX or even the 2.7l XT6 one...
Hopefully the new H6 will regain my confidence in the power/weight ratio...
Brigthon is gone, eh? I won't miss it. The L is a far better value for just a bit more green.
deadbolt - did you see any H6 models on the lot? Guess they're not due until the end of the year, huh?
Koshka - you can order the Subaru CD and have it installed, or go aftermarket. The audio options from Subaru are expensive, IMHO, even though many other options are not. Centavo installed this Sony CD head unit in his, and it looks good.
My tinting is SolarGard and cost $170, but it's not metallic. 3M metallic film may cost a bit more, only you can determine if it's worth it to you.
Steve: my guess is you've already missed the cut off for model year 2000 ordering. You may have to pick one off the lot.
The Trooper paisan got is the new, redesigned model, with a wider track and less of that tendency to lean.
Consumer Reports was slapped on the wrist, but the false statements were actually not in the magazine itself, but in press releases that followed. The article and its claims stand to this day (for the previous Trooper). They can even sell back issues.
All, thanks you for your advises, NJ is not to far to get the car, but I can hardly imagine me going there to do anything else. Actually I'm afraid that I will miss convenience of my mechanic which is just 5 min away from my place of work. I'm trying to decide between GT and L, and actually thinking of getting L and adding moonroof (sunroof) to it. One of the local dealers said that they can do it for something around 1200, which look to high for me. Can I do it cheaper? Where? How it will effect warranty?
In your case, it does appear that Subes lack sufficient power for your needs. However, you're posting in the wrong forum when you try to sell the Trooper as a better vehicle. Your Trooper may get 20 mpg but that's still 30% less than I get with my Forester (an amount that I consider pretty significant). And there's no way that the Trooper can hold a match to a Sube in the handling dept, the center of gravity is just too high. And while you can argue that Consumer Reports overstated the propensity for rollovers, the Trooper is still far more likely to roll than any Sube. There's also the mechanical reliability factor. Everything I've read indicates that the best you can hope for with an Isuzu is avg while Subes are rated either good or excellent depending on the source.
Bottom line, it's great that the Trooper satisfies your particular requirements, but for the vast majority of drivers, a Subaru is the better choice.
Isuzu is FHI, the reliability of all the isuzus and subies I know (and I know a lot of both owners) overall the repairs are the same... My '97 rodeo went 120,000 miles without 1 single repair. (and I beat on it every day)
I'll give you the handling, but how many people are running the indy 500 on a daily basis.
I'm just saying that the VDC is a bit expensive when you compare it to a trooper, $4500 is a lot of gas money....
I just want to make sure that everyone on here knows that subies aren't the be-all end all of vehicles. Sometimes car enthusiasts are quite blind to other alternatives and don't see vehicles for their each individual strengths and weaknesses.
What I wonder piasan, what do you have against Subaru? Did you have a bad dealer experience? I would like to know if you have ever owned a Subaru or did you just test drive one? I do not understand why you feel the need to go to the SUBARU Owners Clubs and bash? I would think that your time would be better put to use on Trooper information sites. We get the idea that You do not like Subaru. WE do we really do and I feel for you. But WE also like Subaru. You are wasting your time here.
Given that you have an XT6 and your new vehicle would not be your only vehicle, I now totally agree with you. I take back what I said about the rollover issue based on Juice said; only the previous Trooper was dangerous (those outrigger tests don't lie). And... how can you beat a ten year 120,000 mile powertrain warranty with 60,000 BTB, like the one on your Isuzu truck? Given the way you will use your truck, you're one of the few who can justify owning one (not that anyone needs to justify owning anything legal in our great land). By the way, Mike (Paisan): You're sending some guy from Connecticut to Staten Island to buy a car... Fuhgedaboudit!
Does anyone know if the 2001 GT Wagon will have side impact air bags. (The 2001 GT Sedan Limited did, but the 2000 GT Wagon did not, not even as an option.) I was at my dealer today, and he didn't have the specs for the 2001 GT, although some sales literature that said "all 2001 GT models will have side air bags". I want to confirm this before ordering. Any way I can confirm this (ie, place on the web that would have the 2001 GT Wagon specs).
Anyone notice Darlene just joined the Crew? Allow me to welcome you, Darlene!
Yes, the one from QSubaru, the parts and accessories wholesaler, my favorite supplier, Subaru Crew event sponsor, friend, basically all of the above.
Her XT is actually one of FOUR Subarus, mostly vintage models, so rest assured she's one of "us".
This is great. We have a dealer emloyee in sales, a rep from SoA, and now a wholesaler all participating directly in our little club.
While we're at it, I have good news for Forester owners. The strut tower brace from the SPT catalog doesn't only fit the Impreza - I just installed one on my Forester. Haven't driven it yet, but I'll post driving impressions once I do. It sure as heck looks cool, though.
-juice
PS Let's take it easy on our pal Paisan. People are certainly entitled to their own opinions, and his needs more more torque and hauling capabilities are something Subaru could and maybe even should address in future models. Think of it as constructive criticism.
I guess I missed that little bit of information. (Open mouth...insert foot!!) My apologies piasan. I do agree with you that the 4 cylinder leaves alot to be desired. I am waiting for the H-6. Again my apologies.
My family has about 9 subarus all vintages (except for GL/DL/Loyale) Ranging from my '88 XT6 to a '92 SVX, '91 FWD Legacy, '97 Outback, '97 Legacy, '99 OB Sport, '00 RS, '00 Outback. So I am one of the biggest Subie fans out there, I just like to try to keep ourselves in perspective... I'll try to tone down my ditching on the subies, I guess I'm just annoyed that I had to get the trooper, instead of a powerful subie. (I went to my dealer cash in had to make a deposit) I think my problem was that I wanted an RS and a Truck, and I thought the GT Wagon could give me best of both worlds, it just didn't cut it for me. I'll be searching for a replacement for the XT6 soon though. Probably SVX or WRX
And after driving all those subies, I'll never get a car w/o AWD again. I had turned off the AWD on the Trooper today, and almost spun it out in some loose gravel @ a stoplight. I learned to keept he AWD engaged...
I want to thank all those who shared their comments, good, bad, otherwise, in this post. Although I was just a reader, I gained considerable knowledge (and confidence) which lead to my purchase today of a '00 OB LTD Wagon at invoice price at Wakefield Subaru (in Mass.).
For all those looking to purchase a "Subie", this (Town Talk) has been a resourceful tool in making my decision (I almost bought a '98 Explorer XLT V8, and considered the 2001 Escape/Tribute). I'll be sure to check back in for accessory advise and will share my comments after driving my OB for a while. Thank you Juice for all your wisdom. - Brad
I picked up my new Forester S yesterday and it has been a blast ever since - I have already driven it about 400 miles! - (wow- I hope I didn't burn it out my first weekend). It performed great and I am completely satisfied with it.
I have one question, however. When I picked up the car at the dealership, I was surprised when the odometer paperwork I signed indicated 288 miles on the car! When I questioned the dealer, he indicated the car was driven to them from another dealership in MA - it was a difficult to obtain model apparently (I found out later that the other dealership was only about 145 miles away). I am wondering if I should have asked for some type of discount because of the mileage - at this point I might further question the dealer and maybe ask if they can do anything (put on some options at no cost?) to compensate me - any thoughts or advice?
Brad: you're welcome, congrats, and welcome to the Crew as a full fledged member!
boris8: that is a bit high to begin with, but state law allows up to 5k miles or so before it has to be sold as a used car. Those miles could be test drives, transportation, or even mileage from the occasional sample they pull out for testing.
Take a close look at everything, just to make sure it's clean and tight. I believe you have until 12k miles for free adjustments.
Now my turn for a question: my dad will be buying an '00 Outback Limited wagon later this month, but he's moving in from Belize, Central America, so he's worried about setting up insurance right away. He plans on going through Costco's Executive Member program with Traveller's Insurance, but it may take some time to set up. So, does the dealer cover the car for a few days, until you get your policy? Should he wait 'til it kicks in to drive the car?
In most states you can't register a car or get temp plates until the car is insured. If he is financing it, the financing company won't let him move the car til it has full coverage. I wouldn't drive a car w/o insurance, and I'm sure the dealer doesn't cover it either...
My husband had a similar situation with his new Honda: it had about 200 mi on it. You can request the dealer to put in writing that his dealership will honor btb warranty through 36200 mi not 36000. As for compensations, they are unlikely to give you any cash back after the deal is closed, but probably would not mind giving you free oil change coupons, or some discount on next maintenance service, etc.
I found, however, that in my area Foresters S+ sell so fast, that it's hard to negotiate anything with the dealer. This was not the case with slower moving Hondas.
The details vary from state to state. Your dealer will know what your state's requirements are.
In California, if you have existing insurance (on an old car) when you buy a new car, you automatically have 30 days during which you are covered on the new car (using your old policy numbers -- I bet insurance companies really hate this :-) .) If you have no insurance, you can pay a bit extra at the dealer to get some coverage. I never had to do the latter and am not 100% sure, but I suspect this is another 30-day deal and you are just in a "new car buyers' pool".
In Maryland, I was on my parents' policy when I got my first (used) car, and then got my own policy. When I bought a Golf new, I do not remember having to do anything at all with insurance paperwork -- but that was in 1987, and I think MD has gotten a bit more careful about these things since then.
In Illinois your existing policy covers new cars for 30 days, but I am not sure if it is comprehensive or just state-mandatory liability insurance. You can probably add your car on the day you buy (or even before) it by calling your insurer with the VIN.
You may recall my title snafu when the dealer let me use his plates for six days. They were very nervous about it and tried their damnedest to get me my own plates asap. If they had asked, I would have waited for the car, but they offered the plates because they wanted my money and who knows with another weekend to shop I just may have bought a different car. Still it was their "fault" that I could not get my own insurance where as in your case it's your father's "fault" and the dealer would probably be even more reluctant.
My insurance agent is very helpful in answering questions like these. Even if you don't use one, try calling a local agency and ask a local dealer as well.
Sorry but this is going to turn into a rant... I dont know how many people here have the MBNA / Subaru credit card but curently I'm pissed of at SOA and MBNA big-time. Here's why: I had this MBNA/SOA Mastercard and the terms were pretty good: 5% rebate for 60 months toward a new Subaru to a maximum of $500/year and $2500 total. Nothing to deal with no BS, just a simple 60 month cycle rebate program, buy a car get a rebate. I liked it and was using the MBNA card only for that reason. Not as good as the GM card witht he $3500 cap but I like Subaru enough so I got the card. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY CHANGE THEIR TERMS FOR ALL SUBARU CARD HOLDERS not just the new ones. The new terms: 3% cash back for 48 months Rebates are in $100 increments They send you stupid coupons that you have to save If not used they expire so there is no cycle $2000 maximum rebate (20 $100 coupons) The coupons can be used for Subaru accessories
Any way you look at it....at a minimum its a $500 loss AND you have to deal with coupons AND they can expire. I guess the benefit is you could buy an overpriced roof rack or something. I dont think so. They changed the duration, the amount, the expiration, and the convinent portion of the program all in one big swoop. Wow! A little change would have been OK I guess but what they did was just unacceptable to me.
The story contines: Since I'm a calm person and wanted to give SOA and MBNA to keep my buisness and reverse (or some portion of) this silly change.......what I did was: 1) Called MBNA and ask for the old terms back since I was a card member in good standing and was planning on starting other investments with them (about $5000). They replied "No". I cancelled my card and ate the $300 I had earned in protest and as a matter of principle. They will not get any of my investments either. Why? Because I'm stubborn and the new terms stink relative to the old ones and I'm not going to encourage that kind of crap. 2) Wrote SOA a letter. I got a reply about market conditions as a reason for the change. They refused to get me the old terms back too. Oh well.
They have an absolute right to change the terms and I understand that. BUT I have a right to complain, voice my opnion, try very nicely to get the old terms back, and not buy their products because they pissed me off. I really object to companies that change the terms of anything that I agree to in good faith. I understand that there was no contract BUT why not keep the faithful happy by letting me keep the old terms. How much could it really cost them? $500 bucks over 60 months? Well.....since I was going to drop $30-40k.... I knew that in exactly 4.5 years I was going to drop $30-40k on what ever top of the line Subaru wagon was available. We did that this time on the 2000 OB Ltd. and we were going to do it again. What's $500 relative to $40k you ask? Its not much to me and should be EVEN LESS to Subaru/MBNA. Honestly, the money is only part of it....its the fact that they changed what I was happy with and did not give me a chance to finish what I started....At the same time mess up one of the main reasons (the $2500 bucks) that I was really excited about getting another Subaru.
So in summary Subaru/MBNA has managed to piss off and drive away one faithful customer for $500 over 60 months. I guess its not that big of a deal to most people but its just one of the things that really gets me nuts. In the end I'm sure it will not amount to much but I feel better about making my tiny and probably insignificant statement. I simply will not contribute to a company that does things like that if I can avoid it.
Dont get me wrong....I still like Subaru automobiles but geeesh its not like there are no choices out there!!!! I'm my case (and perhaps only mine) I think that Subaru messed up.
How can they get me back? Within the next month give me my 5%, 60 month cycle card terms back with all the money I had already earned. No coupons or any other garbage that makes it annoying. Really nothing more than what I thought was getting when I signed on. Dont want anything extra...just what I signed up for.
I was, on balance, pleased when I heard of this change, because although I get less, I am almost guaranteed to spend it. I own a Subaru, so I will have parts/service expense during the lifetime of the car. If I don't buy another Subaru, I'm not "wasting" money.
Now in your case, you DEFINITELY plan to buy a Subaru (or did plan) so you DEFINITELY lose money.
But even "definitely" isn't really for sure. What if, at time of car purchase, you find the current models ugly? Or overpriced, even with your rebate? Or your wife falls in love with a Volvo? Who knows?
My conclusion: I don't have to buy a Subaru to get 3% of my credit card spending back in stuff I need. I might still buy a Subaru of course, but I won't have a "golden handcuff" on one!
I completely understand your annoyance, but don't let the guys in the Finance/Marketing departments put you off of the fine work of the Engineering/Design/Build departments.
Got my new card in the mail and they changed the terms right afterwards. So I don't have anything invested in it and I just may not use the card now--don't think I can bear dealing with silly coupons. Either way, I completely understand your rant as well.
nematode: that's nothing if you compare it to my old Blockbuster card. It was no fee and gave me free movie rentals at 1% of purchases. Then they dropped the free movies. Then they added annual fees! Holy Cow! It was a complete removal of benefits!
Guess they were losing money and had to drop it. Too bad they didn't at least offer a "grandfather clause" for you, though.
I personally prefer the current offer, because it's more flexible and people are more likely to use it. I wonder how much unused balance the GM/Ford/Subaru card holders lost each year.
Plus, I buy lots of accessories and find they stretch the usefullness of your current ride. Need more room? Get the hard top carrier. More still? How 'bout a hitch to pull a small trailer?
Mine will last more than 5 years anyway, so I wouldn't even be ready to buy a new one, so I'd otherwise miss out.
At first I was totally agreeing with Nema's thesis. Then I thought about the possibility that for some reason I end up not buying another Subaru; all my accumulated dollars will we useless. I have planned from the beginning to max that sucker out for $3,500 on my next car, which would be a 6 cyl GT in 2002. I will have completed three years by the time they officially change the program in October, earning nearly the maximum possible for the 3 years, $2,100. So, had they left it alone, I would have earned another $1,400. Instead, I can save my vouchers for the next two years at $500/yr. and have a total of $3,100 for the five year period. The total loss due to the change to me is $400, and I like the idea of using the vouchers for service/parts, etc. (Will Darlene at Qsubaru accept them?) I agree that the new program does have some advantages, but overall it is weaker than the previous. I definitely think that they should have allowed anybody with any points accumulated to be at least given a choice of which plan they wanted for a five year period from the day the first point was accumulated. I certainly would have opted for the existing plan.
The thing that irritates me more than anything else is the happy horse___ letter that they sent trying to disguise the program changes as an "exciting", positive thing. Maybe they were right, they've gotten a lot of people, especially Nematode, quite excited. I suggest that those who are very unhappy, spend their energies writing to Mr. Joseph F. Barstys at SOA instead of ranting here, although maybe Patti will read these posts and spread the word. And hopefully the F. doesn't stand for "F-off"
Let's let Darlene answer that one. I don't see why not, though - QSubaru is a dealership.
Ooh, it's getting hot in here
I'd like to have a crystal ball to see the offerings in 2005 if I were to commit to the credit card, though. If GM redages the crap they sell (Aztec), that rebate would go to waste, and I'd be one PISSED OFF EX-Crew Chief.
If Subaru started selling the Japan-market B4 RSK, the wife would have a new car at a discount.
That's why I got a Toys R Us card instead. Free diapers.
Now, with the free accessories, I think I may change my mind and get the Subaru card after all, since it's 3% instead of 1%.
Went to talk dollars last night with a local dealer on a MY00 Outback. After far too much "negotiating" (they were dead set on _not_ giving me their best deal), I gave up. I'm sure there are other dealers in the area who won't play those kinds of games. One thing that did come to my attention though was their "Dealer Handling" fee. I inquired about it, and they said it was an extra ~$300 to cover some of the costs that they incur....their words were, "every dealer charges you this" and that it was non-negotiable. Just wondering if that is true. Of all of the posts I've read about people getting killer deals on new cars, I've never read about this mysterious dealer handling charge. Anyone have any insight?
Upon reflection, the main reason I feel cheated is that I got nailed by a classic bait and switch (intentional or not). I was going to go with the GM card ($3500 in 7 years) BUT since we really liked our 2k OB Ltd. I decided to remain loyal to Subaru and just max the the MBNA / SOA card out ($2500 in 5 years) in the 60 month span and then buy what ever upscale wagon they had available at the time in exactly 4.5 years. So MBNA / SOA pulled me in with an attractive offer and then changed EVERY COMPONENT (I'm not kidding. EVERY COMPONENT) of the offer. If they had just said we have to reduce the term to 4 a year cycle instead of 5 years...I would have been pretty unhappy but not pissed-off. If they had said you can only do this one time....I would have been completely fine with that. If they had said you can only have 3% but can still earn the $2500 total in 5 years....I would have been unhappy but not just plain angry. BUT they changed everything that made me like the card and refused to make an acception. I realize they dont have to do anything special for me. Thats just fine because I dont have to buy the products of a company(ies) that behaves like that. By doing so I would feel like I was either tolerant, or willing to accept, of that kind of customer treatment. I think by the actions that I have taken I've clearly indicated to MBNA and SOA that I'm not gonna put up with the new policy and will take my money elsewhere. I think that most people realize that when buying a car (in particular the same brand again) you have a tremendous amount of power. There is no single maker of car that is so unique and special that I would blindly select them over all others without considering all the factors. If you think about it I was going to drop at least $35k (perhaps on a Subaru. But since they pissed me off that number is now $0. If they let me keep the original terms and eat the $500 now I still they would have come out way way way ahead. As far as that letter is concerned.....if they wanted to make the card more useful (or "exciting and new") they could have given the card holders the choice of which they prefered. Either $2000, deal with the $100 increment coupons, and the ability to use for accessories/service or the more simple $2500 toward a new car. A choice.
Of course the dealer has costs to cover, that's what the difference between MSRP and invoice is for (along with the holdback). It's been my experience that the closer to invoice the dealer is willing to sell, the more likely they are to add dealer handling, Doc prep and advertising fees. The best way to determine a reasonable sale price is to take the invoice price and add 2-3% to allow for the dealer's profit/operating expenses. That 2-3% should include all of the above mentioned fees. Of course, model demand and availability also effect how low the dealer is willing to go. Just because someone else got a vehicle at invoice doesn't mean that you will be able to match that deal. And was that pure invoice price or did they also pay handling, prep, advertising fees etc.
I too at first was somewhat dismayed by the changes made to the program. I've been on the program for the past two years and have managed to max out the points and looking forward to cutting the price of my first Subaru (2001/2002 Outback VDC) by $1400-$2100 and possibly more if I were more patient. But $1400-$1900 isn't too bad either. This should at least cover the taxes.
In all fairness to SOA and MBNA, the changes to the program aren't all that bad for the customer, eventhough I also wished they'd offered a "grandfather clause" for current card members. The new program does now permit the owner to purchase parts and services. So the positive spin on this is the money potentially lost from the purchase of a car in the old program can easily be made up when servicing the car in the future.
FWIW, I'm having second thoughts about the Outback VDC after having read about the Acura MD-X. I really like the way it looks, inside and out, and more importantly, the availability of the third row seats that hide-away (just like the second row). Perhaps I'm a little biased being that I've been a Honda owner all my life. I know it's considerably more money but may very well be worth it. Now, only if MBNA and Acura would develop a rebate program.
despe: just throw whatever extras they charge into the bottom line price, and compare those. Fitzgerald does not charge processing or advertising fees, so it isn't mandatory like they implied.
paisan has the right idea. Another alternative, if you don't feel as bold, is a no-haggle dealer. They tend not to have those hidden costs.
I like most parts of the MD-X too, but the lack of traction aids really means the LL Bean model is more comparable. My guess is that with the MD-X at retail plus markup, and the LL Bean at a discount, that difference will hit $10k.
I think that you read my mind. The new crop of mini-SUV, super-wagons, and hybrids are really amazing. Just thinking about this last night. I just love jacked up wagons/minivans!!! What a great time to be looking into the market!!!!! I have to wait but you are lucky if you are shopping now or in the next 2-3 years. If I were shopping on paper (VDC -vs- MDX) it would be the MDX and not because I'm angry with Subaru. I think it looks just excellent (while the VDC looks like our 2k OB which is OK not not new) and I like all the options like the 3rd row you mentioned. Dont forget the navigation system and HID lamps too.
The ones I would into eventually are (in no order): 1) BMW 3 series wagon. Perhaps the iX if under $40k???? 1a) BMW X5. I hear there will be a 6cyc version soon. If true it may be under $40k too for a stripped version. 2) Ford Escape or more likely the Mazda Tribute (if they offer a "Limited" super fancy version). Its only $25 with EVERY option including dealer stuff!!!!!!! Very tempting but my Contour was a royal pain. 3) GM Rendevous. Will be sold under Buick. This one looks like a winner on paper. 4) Lexus RX300. My current favorite. Once the MDX is out you can bet the prices will drop here. They are going after the exact same market. Capitalism is sooo cool!!! 5) Ofcourse the Acura MDX you mentioned. May sell over MSRP?? If its as good as the press says it is.....look out!!! If the VDC sells for $30-31k then the MDX will be up to about $6000-8000 more (MSRP) with the touring package. Or about $100-150 a month over a 60 month loan. OR in my case I would have to save for 1-1.5 more years and then the payments would be the same. I guess it really depends on how long my 89 Taurus lasts (140k and counting on the original transmission). 6) Audi 2.7T Avant (perhaps used it may be under $35-40k? in a few years. Very close to my dream wagon. If anyone gets one could I please drive it? 7) Volvo XC. Too much new. Used ones are popping up around here pretty cheat (relative to new). Reliability???? 7a) Volvo Wagons. I like the bread box look over their new rounding thing. I really like the V70 T5 HPT even with the horrible turbo lag. 8) Audi All Road Quattro. Its $50k so perhaps used?? 8a) Audi A4/A6. The A6 Avant is a killer wagon. 9) Larger/improved CR-Vs and Rav4s (small 6???) are also on the way. 10) SAAB wagons. I dont like their look all that much but really fun to drive. 11) Saturn LW2. If they ever get some resonable quality control this would be a great car. Also way under $25k super loaded. It needs a 5 speed. If anyone has not driven this car you really should because it a real sleeper if you dont mind poor build quality. The engine is under rated by 25hp or so. 12) Subaru Outback VDC. Looks OK on paper but will have to wait. May be overpriced?? Put that H6 in the GT wagon with a 5 speed and......hummmmmmm. 12a) Impreza Turbo (WRX). Perhaps in a sport wagon at some point like the OBS. 13) Ferrari 360 Modena Wagon. That would be cool but the mid mounted engine may be a SLIGHT problem. Aaah, who cares!!!! I think it would be cool.
I think the next 5-10 years are gonna be wonderful for wagon/hybrid/mini-SUV lovers to buy a automobile.
I agree many of those are sweet, but many prices break $40k once you add the options you mention.
The MDX should start at $38k, but the nav system is $2k by itself. You'll pay retail at least.
The Bimmer 330ix is estimated at $36.5k by C&D, but expect the sports package, leather, and moonroof to be extra cost options, so it's also over $40k.
The X5 is just too small for the price. BMW is coming out with an X5L for extra length, but that'll cost more, not less.
Ford: Been there, done that. I've owned two Fords. No.
Buick Rendezvous: 3rd row is nice, but look at Aztec specs - and the Buick will be heavier, slower, and pricier.
RX300: should have traction/stability control for the price. Anything over $30k should, no excuses.
I don't think they sell the 2.7T in the Avant body style. The new Allroad looks sweet, though, with that manual height adjustment. Reliability, though? USED reliability?
The XC's just don't do much for me at all. And I'm a wagon guy!
Saab has poor quality control, though the 9-5 is supposed to get AWD.
CR-V is getting a bigger 4 banger, but no V6. RAV4 too, else they'd call it the RAV6 I guess. You forgot the Toyota Highlander, though. It'll be a bigger, bargain priced RX300.
Saturn L's have weird ergonomics. No AWD, no thanks.
The VDC at retail is out of reach for me. But OB LTDs sell for $3k below MSRP or so, so we should expect even bigger discounts eventually for the VDC. Imagine one at $28k? Or an LL Bean at $25k? Now the rest seem overpriced.
WRX Wagon: get in line behind me, thanks very much.
Choices are booming in hybrids, though. Should put pressure on Subaru to keep improving its products without price hikes. The 2001 Outback changes look good, and the price hasn't even kept up with inflation.
IMO, a Toyota Highlander with traction control would be a tough competitor. Or the Mazda Tribute with a real Mazda V6 engine and a manual tranny. Or the MD-X at invoice (yeah, right).
I've kept to a $20k price ceiling, so going to $30k is a bit of a stretch. For that much, it has to be PERFECT. I want 3 rows of seats, AWD, traction/stabiilty control, REAL leather, a huge moonroof, alloy wheels, ABS, power everything, air bags galore, heated seats, a sturdy roof rack, and an awesome AM/FM/CD changer.
What do I have in mind? A stretched Forester S Premium with all those options. The VDC should invoice for $28k or so, so $2k more for a 3rd seat should be doable.
A Saturn over a Subaru....no offense...but share the doobie...REALLY! I agree that it is sort of a sleeper but no AWD (option or std), embarrassing build quality. I know it's your list (and your opinion) but I feel somewhat insulted. :-)
I think it will be a while before you start seeing the LL Bean/VDC models being discounted. I sense that Subaru is going to trickle in these models, so, I expect the demand to outstrip the supply for some time, especially the VDC model.
The AWD Axion coming next year from Isuzu. I believe it will replace the current trooper, and the next generation trooper will be a V8 powered (which they are going to dump in the rodeo too) truck the size similar to a Land Cruiser. It just doesn't make sense to have the axion and the trooper in the same class.
In your latest rant #362, you incorrectly stated that you planned to earn the $2,500 max over five years. It was a $3,500 max over the 5 years, or $700 maximum per year.
I have to admit that with nearly $2,000 accumulated already, I have basically locked myself into another Subaru. I think they are foolish to change the terms. Under the new program, I may use the coupons for service and parts, and there won't be any worries about leaving a lot on the table when shopping for the next car, when an Intrepid R/T, Maxima SE, or some other car might appeal to me. I think Subaru must feel they are giving away money to loyalists who are coming back anyway. As much as I love Subaru (I've had 3 Legacies), there are other nice vehicles out there. Not that I think any are better than a Legacy, especially when they get the 6 cylinder into a Legacy GT that can "handle" the power. But as Juice points out, there are diapers to be bought as well, and we've gotten many free clothes, toys and diapers with the vouchers earned from the Toys 'R Us card. I've always made sure to max out the program on the Subaru card because of the 5%, but the new 3% is the same as the Toys 'R Us earning factor, so now I don't even care which card I use. In fact, the spending of the Subaru vouchers for parts and service is a high probability, but the spending of the Toys 'R Us vouchers is an absolute certainty. As Seinfeld used to say, "Who is the marketing genius who came up with this?"
Dealing with local dealer on 2000OB. Window price 25200. Agreed to 22300. Presently driving 98 OB lmt, 30th anniversary spec, loaded (less roof) cold air pkg etc. 20k miles. Still looks like day drove it out. Dealer only will allow 15500 on 98. The 98 is a cream puff and in this area will bring minimum 18. If sold outright, must pay full sales tax on 22 rather than 17 i am asking for 98 from them. Am i being unreasonable at $17? Everbody deserves a profit, but i believe my offer is fair. Comments PLEASE
Comments
If you don't mind traveling about 50-60 minutes south of Stamford to NJ, I recommend Wayne Subaru, which is not far off RT 287. It's a single line dealer (Subaru only), family run with good service. I bought my car from the owner, Bob, Jr., who sold me my car, completed the paperwork, and was actually cleaning and prepping it the day I picked it up. They are happy to order a car for you rather than push what's in stock, and Bob's helped me out with issues and repairs that were out of warranty (shhhh!).
Sorry to say it but SOA needs more power, the 4 bangers can't compare to the 3.3l SVX or even the 2.7l XT6 one...
Hopefully the new H6 will regain my confidence in the power/weight ratio...
-mike
deadbolt - did you see any H6 models on the lot? Guess they're not due until the end of the year, huh?
Koshka - you can order the Subaru CD and have it installed, or go aftermarket. The audio options from Subaru are expensive, IMHO, even though many other options are not. Centavo installed this Sony CD head unit in his, and it looks good.
My tinting is SolarGard and cost $170, but it's not metallic. 3M metallic film may cost a bit more, only you can determine if it's worth it to you.
Steve: my guess is you've already missed the cut off for model year 2000 ordering. You may have to pick one off the lot.
The Trooper paisan got is the new, redesigned model, with a wider track and less of that tendency to lean.
Consumer Reports was slapped on the wrist, but the false statements were actually not in the magazine itself, but in press releases that followed. The article and its claims stand to this day (for the previous Trooper). They can even sell back issues.
-juice
I'm trying to decide between GT and L, and actually thinking of getting L and adding moonroof (sunroof) to it. One of the local dealers said that they can do it for something around 1200, which look to high for me. Can I do it cheaper? Where? How it will effect warranty?
In your case, it does appear that Subes lack sufficient power for your needs. However, you're posting in the wrong forum when you try to sell the Trooper as a better vehicle. Your Trooper may get 20 mpg but that's still 30% less than I get with my Forester (an amount that I consider pretty significant). And there's no way that the Trooper can hold a match to a Sube in the handling dept, the center of gravity is just too high. And while you can argue that Consumer Reports overstated the propensity for rollovers, the Trooper is still far more likely to roll than any Sube. There's also the mechanical reliability factor. Everything I've read indicates that the best you can hope for with an Isuzu is avg while Subes are rated either good or excellent depending on the source.
Bottom line, it's great that the Trooper satisfies your particular requirements, but for the vast majority of drivers, a Subaru is the better choice.
Frank P.
I'll give you the handling, but how many people are running the indy 500 on a daily basis.
I'm just saying that the VDC is a bit expensive when you compare it to a trooper, $4500 is a lot of gas money....
I just want to make sure that everyone on here knows that subies aren't the be-all end all of vehicles. Sometimes car enthusiasts are quite blind to other alternatives and don't see vehicles for their each individual strengths and weaknesses.
-mike
You've obviously never commuted on I-285 around Atlanta! :-)
-mike
Given the way you will use your truck, you're one of the few who can justify owning one (not that anyone needs to justify owning anything legal in our great land).
By the way, Mike (Paisan): You're sending some guy from Connecticut to Staten Island to buy a car...
Fuhgedaboudit!
Darlene
Yes, the one from QSubaru, the parts and accessories wholesaler, my favorite supplier, Subaru Crew event sponsor, friend, basically all of the above.
Her XT is actually one of FOUR Subarus, mostly vintage models, so rest assured she's one of "us".
This is great. We have a dealer emloyee in sales, a rep from SoA, and now a wholesaler all participating directly in our little club.
While we're at it, I have good news for Forester owners. The strut tower brace from the SPT catalog doesn't only fit the Impreza - I just installed one on my Forester. Haven't driven it yet, but I'll post driving impressions once I do. It sure as heck looks cool, though.
-juice
PS Let's take it easy on our pal Paisan. People are certainly entitled to their own opinions, and his needs more more torque and hauling capabilities are something Subaru could and maybe even should address in future models. Think of it as constructive criticism.
(Open mouth...insert foot!!) My apologies piasan.
I do agree with you that the 4 cylinder leaves alot to be desired. I am waiting for the H-6.
Again my apologies.
And after driving all those subies, I'll never get a car w/o AWD again. I had turned off the AWD on the Trooper today, and almost spun it out in some loose gravel @ a stoplight. I learned to keept he AWD engaged...
-mike
Although I was just a reader, I gained considerable knowledge (and confidence) which lead to my purchase today of a '00 OB LTD Wagon
at invoice price at Wakefield Subaru (in Mass.).
For all those looking to purchase a "Subie", this (Town Talk) has been a resourceful tool in making my decision (I almost bought a '98 Explorer XLT V8, and considered the 2001 Escape/Tribute). I'll be sure to check back in for accessory advise and will share my comments after driving my OB for a while. Thank you Juice for all your wisdom.
- Brad
I have one question, however. When I picked up the car at the dealership, I was surprised when the odometer paperwork I signed indicated 288 miles on the car! When I questioned the dealer, he indicated the car was driven to them from another dealership in MA - it was a difficult to obtain model apparently (I found out later that the other dealership was only about 145 miles away). I am wondering if I should have asked for some type of discount because of the mileage - at this point I might further question the dealer and maybe ask if they can do anything (put on some options at no cost?) to compensate me - any thoughts or advice?
boris8: that is a bit high to begin with, but state law allows up to 5k miles or so before it has to be sold as a used car. Those miles could be test drives, transportation, or even mileage from the occasional sample they pull out for testing.
Take a close look at everything, just to make sure it's clean and tight. I believe you have until 12k miles for free adjustments.
Now my turn for a question: my dad will be buying an '00 Outback Limited wagon later this month, but he's moving in from Belize, Central America, so he's worried about setting up insurance right away. He plans on going through Costco's Executive Member program with Traveller's Insurance, but it may take some time to set up. So, does the dealer cover the car for a few days, until you get your policy? Should he wait 'til it kicks in to drive the car?
-juice
-mike
I found, however, that in my area Foresters S+ sell so fast, that it's hard to negotiate anything with the dealer. This was not the case with slower moving Hondas.
In California, if you have existing insurance (on an old car) when you buy a new car, you automatically have 30 days during which you are covered on the new car (using your old policy numbers -- I bet insurance companies really hate this :-) .) If you have no insurance, you can pay a bit extra at the dealer to get some coverage. I never had to do the latter and am not 100% sure, but I suspect this is another 30-day deal and you are just in a "new car buyers' pool".
In Maryland, I was on my parents' policy when I got my first (used) car, and then got my own policy. When I bought a Golf new, I do not remember having to do anything at all with insurance paperwork -- but that was in 1987, and I think MD has gotten a bit more careful about these things since then.
Chris
I'm trying to get him to apply for the Costco membership over the web. He's a bit slow to adapt new technology, so I'm working on it...
-juice
-juice
My insurance agent is very helpful in answering questions like these. Even if you don't use one, try calling a local agency and ask a local dealer as well.
Mary
Thanks.
-juice
I dont know how many people here have the MBNA / Subaru credit card but curently I'm pissed of at SOA and MBNA big-time. Here's why:
I had this MBNA/SOA Mastercard and the terms were pretty good:
5% rebate for 60 months toward a new Subaru to a maximum of $500/year and $2500 total. Nothing to deal with no BS, just a simple 60 month cycle rebate program, buy a car get a rebate. I liked it and was using the MBNA card only for that reason.
Not as good as the GM card witht he $3500 cap but I like Subaru enough so I got the card.
THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY CHANGE THEIR TERMS FOR ALL SUBARU CARD HOLDERS not just the new ones. The new terms:
3% cash back for 48 months
Rebates are in $100 increments
They send you stupid coupons that you have to save
If not used they expire so there is no cycle
$2000 maximum rebate (20 $100 coupons)
The coupons can be used for Subaru accessories
Any way you look at it....at a minimum its a $500 loss AND you have to deal with coupons AND they can expire. I guess the benefit is you could buy an overpriced roof rack or something. I dont think so. They changed the duration, the amount, the expiration, and the convinent portion of the program all in one big swoop. Wow! A little change would have been OK I guess but what they did was just unacceptable to me.
The story contines:
Since I'm a calm person and wanted to give SOA and MBNA to keep my buisness and reverse (or some portion of) this silly change.......what I did was:
1) Called MBNA and ask for the old terms back since I was a card member in good standing and was planning on starting other investments with them (about $5000). They replied "No". I cancelled my card and ate the $300 I had earned in protest and as a matter of principle. They will not get any of my investments either. Why? Because I'm stubborn and the new terms stink relative to the old ones and I'm not going to encourage that kind of crap.
2) Wrote SOA a letter. I got a reply about market conditions as a reason for the change. They refused to get me the old terms back too. Oh well.
They have an absolute right to change the terms and I understand that. BUT I have a right to complain, voice my opnion, try very nicely to get the old terms back, and not buy their products because they pissed me off. I really object to companies that change the terms of anything that I agree to in good faith. I understand that there was no contract BUT why not keep the faithful happy by letting me keep the old terms. How much could it really cost them? $500 bucks over 60 months? Well.....since I was going to drop $30-40k....
I knew that in exactly 4.5 years I was going to drop $30-40k on what ever top of the line Subaru wagon was available. We did that this time on the 2000 OB Ltd. and we were going to do it again. What's $500 relative to $40k you ask? Its not much to me and should be EVEN LESS to Subaru/MBNA. Honestly, the money is only part of it....its the fact that they changed what I was happy with and did not give me a chance to finish what I started....At the same time mess up one of the main reasons (the $2500 bucks) that I was really excited about getting another Subaru.
So in summary Subaru/MBNA has managed to piss off and drive away one faithful customer for $500 over 60 months. I guess its not that big of a deal to most people but its just one of the things that really gets me nuts. In the end I'm sure it will not amount to much but I feel better about making my tiny and probably insignificant statement. I simply will not contribute to a company that does things like that if I can avoid it.
Dont get me wrong....I still like Subaru automobiles but geeesh its not like there are no choices out there!!!! I'm my case (and perhaps only mine) I think that Subaru messed up.
How can they get me back? Within the next month give me my 5%, 60 month cycle card terms back with all the money I had already earned. No coupons or any other garbage that makes it annoying. Really nothing more than what I thought was getting when I signed on. Dont want anything extra...just what I signed up for.
Sorry for the long rant/post
I was, on balance, pleased when I heard of this change, because although I get less, I am almost guaranteed to spend it. I own a Subaru, so I will have parts/service expense during the lifetime of the car. If I don't buy another Subaru, I'm not "wasting" money.
Now in your case, you DEFINITELY plan to buy a Subaru (or did plan) so you DEFINITELY lose money.
But even "definitely" isn't really for sure. What if, at time of car purchase, you find the current models ugly? Or overpriced, even with your rebate? Or your wife falls in love with a Volvo? Who knows?
My conclusion: I don't have to buy a Subaru to get 3% of my credit card spending back in stuff I need. I might still buy a Subaru of course, but I won't have a "golden handcuff" on one!
I completely understand your annoyance, but don't let the guys in the Finance/Marketing departments put you off of the fine work of the Engineering/Design/Build departments.
Now kiss and make up with your Outback!
- Martin
Mary
Guess they were losing money and had to drop it. Too bad they didn't at least offer a "grandfather clause" for you, though.
I personally prefer the current offer, because it's more flexible and people are more likely to use it. I wonder how much unused balance the GM/Ford/Subaru card holders lost each year.
Plus, I buy lots of accessories and find they stretch the usefullness of your current ride. Need more room? Get the hard top carrier. More still? How 'bout a hitch to pull a small trailer?
Mine will last more than 5 years anyway, so I wouldn't even be ready to buy a new one, so I'd otherwise miss out.
-juice
I agree that the new program does have some advantages, but overall it is weaker than the previous. I definitely think that they should have allowed anybody with any points accumulated to be at least given a choice of which plan they wanted for a five year period from the day the first point was accumulated. I certainly would have opted for the existing plan.
The thing that irritates me more than anything else is the happy horse___ letter that they sent trying to disguise the program changes as an "exciting", positive thing. Maybe they were right, they've gotten a lot of people, especially Nematode, quite excited.
I suggest that those who are very unhappy, spend their energies writing to Mr. Joseph F. Barstys at SOA instead of ranting here, although maybe Patti will read these posts and spread the word. And hopefully the F. doesn't stand for "F-off"
Ooh, it's getting hot in here
I'd like to have a crystal ball to see the offerings in 2005 if I were to commit to the credit card, though. If GM redages the crap they sell (Aztec), that rebate would go to waste, and I'd be one PISSED OFF EX-Crew Chief.
If Subaru started selling the Japan-market B4 RSK, the wife would have a new car at a discount.
That's why I got a Toys R Us card instead. Free diapers.
Now, with the free accessories, I think I may change my mind and get the Subaru card after all, since it's 3% instead of 1%.
-juice
Darlene
-juice
-just another Dave
BUT they changed everything that made me like the card and refused to make an acception. I realize they dont have to do anything special for me. Thats just fine because I dont have to buy the products of a company(ies) that behaves like that. By doing so I would feel like I was either tolerant, or willing to accept, of that kind of customer treatment. I think by the actions that I have taken I've clearly indicated to MBNA and SOA that I'm not gonna put up with the new policy and will take my money elsewhere.
I think that most people realize that when buying a car (in particular the same brand again) you have a tremendous amount of power. There is no single maker of car that is so unique and special that I would blindly select them over all others without considering all the factors. If you think about it I was going to drop at least $35k (perhaps on a Subaru. But since they pissed me off that number is now $0. If they let me keep the original terms and eat the $500 now I still they would have come out way way way ahead.
As far as that letter is concerned.....if they wanted to make the card more useful (or "exciting and new") they could have given the card holders the choice of which they prefered. Either $2000, deal with the $100 increment coupons, and the ability to use for accessories/service or the more simple $2500 toward a new car. A choice.
Frank P.
In all fairness to SOA and MBNA, the changes to the program aren't all that bad for the customer, eventhough I also wished they'd offered a "grandfather clause" for current card members. The new program does now permit the owner to purchase parts and services. So the positive spin on this is the money potentially lost from the purchase of a car in the old program can easily be made up when servicing the car in the future.
FWIW, I'm having second thoughts about the Outback VDC after having read about the Acura MD-X. I really like the way it looks, inside and out, and more importantly, the availability of the third row seats that hide-away (just like the second row). Perhaps I'm a little biased being that I've been a Honda owner all my life. I know it's considerably more money but may very well be worth it. Now, only if MBNA and Acura would develop a rebate program.
John
paisan has the right idea. Another alternative, if you don't feel as bold, is a no-haggle dealer. They tend not to have those hidden costs.
I like most parts of the MD-X too, but the lack of traction aids really means the LL Bean model is more comparable. My guess is that with the MD-X at retail plus markup, and the LL Bean at a discount, that difference will hit $10k.
-juice
John
The new crop of mini-SUV, super-wagons, and hybrids are really amazing. Just thinking about this last night. I just love jacked up wagons/minivans!!! What a great time to be looking into the market!!!!! I have to wait but you are lucky if you are shopping now or in the next 2-3 years.
If I were shopping on paper (VDC -vs- MDX) it would be the MDX and not because I'm angry with Subaru. I think it looks just excellent (while the VDC looks like our 2k OB which is OK not not new) and I like all the options like the 3rd row you mentioned. Dont forget the navigation system and HID lamps too.
The ones I would into eventually are (in no order):
1) BMW 3 series wagon. Perhaps the iX if under $40k????
1a) BMW X5. I hear there will be a 6cyc version soon. If true it may be under $40k too for a stripped version.
2) Ford Escape or more likely the Mazda Tribute (if they offer a "Limited" super fancy version). Its only $25 with EVERY option including dealer stuff!!!!!!! Very tempting but my Contour was a royal pain.
3) GM Rendevous. Will be sold under Buick. This one looks like a winner on paper.
4) Lexus RX300. My current favorite. Once the MDX is out you can bet the prices will drop here. They are going after the exact same market. Capitalism is sooo cool!!!
5) Ofcourse the Acura MDX you mentioned. May sell over MSRP?? If its as good as the press says it is.....look out!!! If the VDC sells for $30-31k then the MDX will be up to about $6000-8000 more (MSRP) with the touring package. Or about $100-150 a month over a 60 month loan. OR in my case I would have to save for 1-1.5 more years and then the payments would be the same. I guess it really depends on how long my 89 Taurus lasts (140k and counting on the original transmission).
6) Audi 2.7T Avant (perhaps used it may be under $35-40k? in a few years. Very close to my dream wagon. If anyone gets one could I please drive it?
7) Volvo XC. Too much new. Used ones are popping up around here pretty cheat (relative to new). Reliability????
7a) Volvo Wagons. I like the bread box look over their new rounding thing. I really like the V70 T5 HPT even with the horrible turbo lag.
8) Audi All Road Quattro. Its $50k so perhaps used??
8a) Audi A4/A6. The A6 Avant is a killer wagon.
9) Larger/improved CR-Vs and Rav4s (small 6???) are also on the way.
10) SAAB wagons. I dont like their look all that much but really fun to drive.
11) Saturn LW2. If they ever get some resonable quality control this would be a great car. Also way under $25k super loaded. It needs a 5 speed. If anyone has not driven this car you really should because it a real sleeper if you dont mind poor build quality. The engine is under rated by 25hp or so.
12) Subaru Outback VDC. Looks OK on paper but will have to wait. May be overpriced?? Put that H6 in the GT wagon with a 5 speed and......hummmmmmm.
12a) Impreza Turbo (WRX). Perhaps in a sport wagon at some point like the OBS.
13) Ferrari 360 Modena Wagon. That would be cool but the mid mounted engine may be a SLIGHT problem. Aaah, who cares!!!! I think it would be cool.
I think the next 5-10 years are gonna be wonderful for wagon/hybrid/mini-SUV lovers to buy a automobile.
The MDX should start at $38k, but the nav system is $2k by itself. You'll pay retail at least.
The Bimmer 330ix is estimated at $36.5k by C&D, but expect the sports package, leather, and moonroof to be extra cost options, so it's also over $40k.
The X5 is just too small for the price. BMW is coming out with an X5L for extra length, but that'll cost more, not less.
Ford: Been there, done that. I've owned two Fords. No.
Buick Rendezvous: 3rd row is nice, but look at Aztec specs - and the Buick will be heavier, slower, and pricier.
RX300: should have traction/stability control for the price. Anything over $30k should, no excuses.
I don't think they sell the 2.7T in the Avant body style. The new Allroad looks sweet, though, with that manual height adjustment. Reliability, though? USED reliability?
The XC's just don't do much for me at all. And I'm a wagon guy!
Saab has poor quality control, though the 9-5 is supposed to get AWD.
CR-V is getting a bigger 4 banger, but no V6. RAV4 too, else they'd call it the RAV6 I guess. You forgot the Toyota Highlander, though. It'll be a bigger, bargain priced RX300.
Saturn L's have weird ergonomics. No AWD, no thanks.
The VDC at retail is out of reach for me. But OB LTDs sell for $3k below MSRP or so, so we should expect even bigger discounts eventually for the VDC. Imagine one at $28k? Or an LL Bean at $25k? Now the rest seem overpriced.
WRX Wagon: get in line behind me, thanks very much.
Choices are booming in hybrids, though. Should put pressure on Subaru to keep improving its products without price hikes. The 2001 Outback changes look good, and the price hasn't even kept up with inflation.
IMO, a Toyota Highlander with traction control would be a tough competitor. Or the Mazda Tribute with a real Mazda V6 engine and a manual tranny. Or the MD-X at invoice (yeah, right).
I've kept to a $20k price ceiling, so going to $30k is a bit of a stretch. For that much, it has to be PERFECT. I want 3 rows of seats, AWD, traction/stabiilty control, REAL leather, a huge moonroof, alloy wheels, ABS, power everything, air bags galore, heated seats, a sturdy roof rack, and an awesome AM/FM/CD changer.
What do I have in mind? A stretched Forester S Premium with all those options. The VDC should invoice for $28k or so, so $2k more for a 3rd seat should be doable.
-juice
Stephen
Bob
-mike
I have to admit that with nearly $2,000 accumulated already, I have basically locked myself into another Subaru. I think they are foolish to change the terms. Under the new program, I may use the coupons for service and parts, and there won't be any worries about leaving a lot on the table when shopping for the next car, when an Intrepid R/T, Maxima SE, or some other car might appeal to me. I think Subaru must feel they are giving away money to loyalists who are coming back anyway.
As much as I love Subaru (I've had 3 Legacies), there are other nice vehicles out there. Not that I think any are better than a Legacy, especially when they get the 6 cylinder into a Legacy GT that can "handle" the power.
But as Juice points out, there are diapers to be bought as well, and we've gotten many free clothes, toys and diapers with the vouchers earned from the Toys 'R Us card. I've always made sure to max out the program on the Subaru card because of the 5%, but the new 3% is the same as the Toys 'R Us earning factor, so now I don't even care which card I use. In fact, the spending of the Subaru vouchers for parts and service is a high probability, but the spending of the Toys 'R Us vouchers is an absolute certainty.
As Seinfeld used to say, "Who is the marketing genius who came up with this?"