Just had a "shopping experience" that left me ... breathless. After months of reading, went out to test drive a Passat V6 and a Subaru GT, each with automatic. The VW dealer (Stevens Creek VW, San Jose, CA) didn't want me to touch a car until I understood that I'd be paying $3-4K OVER MSRP. "We have a unique situation right now; can't keep them on the floor, blah, blah." I said no thanks, and left for the Subaru dealer (Stevens Creek Subaru/Isuzu) thinking things couldn't possibly get any worse. I was wrong. I asked to drive a GT with automatic. The salesman took me to the only one on the lot, and we got in, and ... no gas. So I stood there, waiting for him to go get a gas can, and he stood there looking at me, and finally I said, "Uh, well ..." And he explained that well, gee, I could test drive an Outback with manual transmission: "It has the same feel." Incredulous, I asked how they sell cars when they can't manage to put gas in them, and he explained that guess what: "It's a hot car right now; can't keep them on the floor, blah, blah." What a crock! To Hell with both VW and Subaru! Tomorrow I'll see if I'm treated any better at an Acura dealer. I'm 56, BTW, neat and well-dressed.
I just went thru a similiar situation (dealer offered $2000 less than the KBB wholesale value of the trade-in). So I went ahead and sold it myself for the $2000 difference. FYI: It was a minimum hassle experience. I advertised strictly on-line thru Autoweb and sold it to the first person who looked at it. However, my vehicle was an older model so it might have been easier to sell (not too many folks have $17,000 in cash).
$2000-$2500 is a fairly standard dealer margin for a trade-in. It also sounds like they're giving you a pretty good deal on the OB so they'll be less flexible on the trade-in. Another dealer might offer you more but would make it up by not giving you as good as a deal on the new vehicle.
Regarding getting the maximum value for your trade-in, I found that Carmax offers a straight-out purchase for late model used cars that is significantly higher than any dealer offers for a trade. They come close to a retail price for the car. When I traded my Dodge Caravan for my 01 Forester S, I visited several dealers who offered a good price for the Forester, but a terrible trade value. Carmax offered $3,000 higher than the best trade in value offered.
Short story for all looking to trade a car, try Carmax. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Hi, I hope you're still reading this forum so you get this reply. FYI, I have heard repeated horror stories about several of the auto dealers on Stevens Creek in San Jose. One of the worst is definitely the Subaru dealership there. When I was test-driving recently, I think they used some of the slimiest tactics of any of the places I visited. The first time I went, the salesperson trashed the last place I had been (Honda) and attempted to engage in price negotiation by asking if I would buy the car that day if he gave it to me for half-price. The second time I went to the lot (to take another look at the colors), I had 5 salespeople stand in front of the exit trying to block me from leaving until I bought a car (might have worked a few years ago but I have learned since then!).
Anyway, I have heard other bad stories from friends who went to Stevens Creek Subaru - some have even felt they were involved in some shady activities.
So, go to Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City (no hassle pricing, straightforward dealing, even let you test drive a Forester S premium by yourself) or Santa Cruz Subaru (good prices, laidback approach, nice demonstration of all the features when you buy a new car) and enjoy!
paisan: That's right, I think it was named Axium? Looks too Judge Dread to me, though.
Roger: your paying invoice for your new one, so don't be surprised that the dealer is offering wholesale for you trade. It apples-to-apples. He'd lose money otherwise.
You'll earn more selling it yourself, so you have to decide if it's worth the heart ache. Car Max sounds like an option.
Craig: are there other Subaru or VW dealers in your area? Dealers are independent, so don't drop a manufacturer because of one bad dealer experience!
I second the recommendation of Carlsen over Stevens Creek. Even if you had to bear two hours of rush hour traffic to get to Carlsen, I would still recommend it.
My experiences with Stevens Creek Subaru were... um, memorable. I test drove a Legacy GT there last year. I pulled to a stop light after a test drive on the freeway, looked over to the passenger side, and found the salesman ASLEEP.
When we got back to the dealership, they offered to "talk about it". I told them I wasn't going to buy a car and that they should spend their time on another customer, but they kept on insisting. I needed some haggling practice and if they were willing to waste some time on me... what the heck. For 45 minutes, in response to whatever they threw at me, I repeated this phrase verbatim: "I don't want to buy a car today." Got them down to $1K under invoice (incentives at the time?) before I flat out told them that I wouldn't buy the car even if they offered it for $10K. Well, some of them got frustrated and stormed out of the room. Too bad, I thought. If you had listened to me, you wouldn't have wasted your time.
Fast forward to this year at Carlsen. Test drove two 2000 Outbacks (auto and stick) on separate visits by myself for about 35 minutes each. Told the salesman I wanted an white Outback with the all-weather package and the security upgrade. He told me there wasn't one in stock but there would be one arriving in 2-3 weeks. I looked at his manifest and noticed the arriving Outback also had the woodgrain door trim installed. The salesman offered to remove it, but I decided to keep it. He offered 2.9% over invoice (about $600) and I took the offer. Three weeks later, the car was in and I drove away in less than an hour. I even got four free oil changes (a promotion at that time).
Carlsen is a one-price store and the sales volume leader in Northern California. You could probably haggle if you think it's worth it.
A few months later, I considered adding an aftermarket moonroof. I remembered that Carlsen installed them on a small number of their Outbacks, so I decided to check out quality of their installations. I walked into the showroom, explained my situation, and minutes later, I was outside playing around with the moonroof. They didn't try to sell me anything--in fact, they told me who they contracted the work out to and what the approximate cost was. After I was done poking around (about 10 minutes later), I thanked the salesman and that was that. Ultimately, I decided not to install a moonroof, but that's another story.
Here is not 1 but 2 horror stories about the subaru/isuzu dealer there...
In '97 I had leased my rodeo and my buddy who lived in DE loved it so he decides that we should go down there and check em out etc. This was in the fall of '97 after the new '98 had come out. I was leasing mine for $280/mo with $0 down. On the same vehicle they said the best they could do was $390/mo with $0 down. We were like "You are kidding?" They said nope, that was teh best they could do. So I said do I need to go outside and get the paperwork on my lease to show you? About the only good thing about them was I drove the '98 rodeo @ 105mph with the dealer in the car. I took him literally when he said "Go as fast as you want"
Fast foward 2 years...
I was looking at the troopers last summer, test drove one, it was a mid range, with no moonroof and no leather. I wanted both. This was in May actually. We get inside to start negotiating, and I told em I'd like to order one with leather and the roof, they said they can't order anymore and that they would get leather and moonroof put in. Knowing I wasn't actually buying it, I decide to go along with them... So the manager comes out and they start berrating me to buy the truck that day. "We are going to put you in this truck today, can you leave a deposit" So I am there and I go "does it have wheel locks?" they say "No but we can put em on" I say "well my dealer put wheel locks on my rodeo for free, can you do the same?" They say to me "No we're sorry, it's $30 for the locks, and $40 labor to put em on" So I turn to them and say "You mean to tell me on this truck that is costing me $30,000 you are going to charge me to put on 4 lug nuts?" I get up and begin to walk out. "Where are you going?" me:"This discussion is over, there is no way I'm paying $40 on a $30K car to have you put on 5 lug nuts, if you are willing to let this deal slip through your hands for $40"
The price he was giving me was pretty bad to begin with, but they didn't seem to understand that I wasn't buying it that day no matter what.
On the flip side, Staten Island Isuzu/Subaru (Manfredi Motors) has an excellent staff, totally laid back attitude. I usually go there 1x a week just to say hello and see the manager and my sales guy, talk about cars and what not. We usually help em sell some cars while we are there too (it's always good to have some happy customers there to sell a car)
Deliveries of 2001 Outbacks to the dealers have been made already. Other than an exterior temp gauge, I saw NO difference from the 2000 Outback. Of course, nothing has been shipped with the H6 engine as of yet!
I heard they're getting seatback map pockets, a dual trip odo like the Forester's, and bigger front brakes, too. That plus an outside temp guage.
Little stuff, but useful nonetheless.
My dad may end up waiting - he's shipping his '92 Ford Taurus wagon back here (silly, IMHO) before he arrives, so he's in less of a rush now. I'll probably recommend he wait for the 2001s.
You're right on. The 2001 Outback I looked at DID have the map pockets (netting), dual trip odo, and outside gauge. I did not ask about bigger front brakes but have heard that also. The model I saw was the wine color. I've heard on the board that wintergreen will also be offered. It seems (no confirmation) that the artic white will be available with H6s only.
Just got done purchasing a white Forester S with the Prem. pack, security upgrade, subwoofer, and auto transmission for 23.3K, which I'm pretty sure is right at invoice. Nonewithstanding the holdback, how can they make money this way? The car has been on the lot, so I presume the dealer is not getting the full 2% on the MSRP. I keep thinking I did something wrong.
Trust me, they wouldn't sell you one unless they were makig a profit. But I'd still say you did real good.
Assuming that your 23,3K didn't include the $495 destination charge, you paid $650 over invoice. Edmunds estimates the true market value for the Forester as being approx 3% over invoice which is $679 in your case based upon an $22,647 est true invoice. Therefore your dealer's profit was that 3% plus the 2% manufacturer's holdback.
Geri - sounds like you got a heck of a deal! Low 23's for a Premium? I usually see them for $24k and up, especially for autos.
Sure enough, the on-line dealer I usually refer to lists 2001 Legacys for sale already. Some are $100 under invoice, though the 2000s were $600 under because of the dealer incentive.
Still, there's all the "gravy" with the new features, plus at resale you'll make it back.
Actually, the dest was included, so I feel much better now. I had wanted the 4-speed manual and had to accept the automatic upgrade for pick up today, plus I told the dealer I was ready to go thi route or to the Toyota dealer for a Camry.
I guess most Subaru dealers and sales people are following the Subaru forums, particularly this one, very closely. I am sure they sometimes get useful information about a potential buyer with whom they are in the negotiation stage and who tries to get information here.
I hope my dealership in the DFW area is reading this post.
I recently bought a 2000 Outback. I needed a car right away and this dealership happened to have the one I wanted. It had a few small scratches on the hood. The sales person promised me to get them out. I wouldn't see them at all, but I would have to bring the car in on a Friday, because the guy who specializes on this type of job gets contracted only on Fridays. I bought the car (at invoice) and drove off happily. A few days later, I had some accessories installed at which occasion the scratches got "treated" as well. It was a Tuesday. Afterwards, I found that there was just some paint put on the scratches. They were still clearly visible and very rough. So they didn't even polish the surface. And it was a Tuesday, which indicated that the "scratch expert" didn't work on the scratches. I really want to get the scratches fixed in a professional manner (well, it was part of the deal). So I complained. "No problem", was the answer, "bring the car in on a Friday". Since then (2 weeks) I am trying to get the repair scheduled by email and by phone. No answer to my emails. Interestingly, when I inquired about the car before buying it, I got answers within 10 minutes... When I call, the person handling my case is not available. My sales person is referring me to the person who is not available. The receptionist said she left a note with that person. No answer. Did I mention that I didn't fill out my survey yet...
Another thing. My car had 70 (seventy) miles when I purchased it. I am not complaining about the fact that it had been test driven a few times, as I elected to buy it. However, when registering the car, the dealership has to pass on the odometer reading to the registration bureau. The lady handling that showed the form to me, and it said "10 miles". I pointed out the "mistake" after which the lady retyped the form with the correct number on it. However, when I received my title yesterday, it said "10 miles"! Not a biggie, but something that makes me a bit uncomfortable.
I am sort of fed up, but I will give this dealership another week to get the job scheduled/done. If I don't hear from them, I will reveal on this forum what dealership it is and will spread the word accordingly. I will then fill out my survey and take my future business/maintenance needs, etc. somewhere else, allowing a competing dealership to remove my dealership's advertisement and replacing it with their own.
Mischa, can't blame you. But remind me not to get you ticked.
My question: getting ready to look/purchase a Legacy sedan (L or GT) for my wife's use. Probably will have the time to devote in two or three weeks.
That means I'll be pretty close to the time the '01s will be coming out. So, I'm wondering....
Assuming the two cars (00 & 01) are pretty much the same in features, options, etc., should I expect to get any kind of an _additional_ price break on the "left over"?
On the one hand, after a month either one I purchase would be "used," have the same miles, and so on. But would they have depreciated the same amount?
Otoh, the '00 would be a year "older." I realize that will be an impact on its value when I trade it in some day.
So: can I save any significant money by buying a leftover Subaru? Or is it a wash? Anyone have an experience that will help me decide how to approach it?
Joe, I looked at www.fitzgeraldautomall.com and it looks like they are selling 2001 Legacy's a few hundred dollars UNDER invoice (Internet price) and 2000's at even a greater discount. If you live in the Washington DC area, or can get here, looks like there are great bargains to be had on both the 2000s and 2001s. (For anyone looking for a great buy on a Subaru, and you really enjoy driving, why not visit our area and buy the car here; you can see some great sites and then drive home in your new Subaru.)
I'm looking for a 2000 Subaru Legacy in the Vancouver area, Canada. I know that the US invoice price is $18097 and MRSP $19895, which means that the MRSP is 109.5% of the invoice, or if you prefer, 9.5% more than the invoice. Can I use the same % with the Canadian MRSP to get the invoice?
Also, is it bad etiquette to contact dealers for prices thru email? Because for some reason, 50% (of 4 ealers) didn't reply me. And the ones who do reply me take a couple days.
So far, the best/only offer I got is 3% markup of the invoice. The problem is that I only have a rough idea of what the invoice is. So is 3% considred "good"?
It seems that the selling price for a Subaru is considerably less in the Middle Atlantic states where I live in comparison to the selling prices in the Pacific Northwest part of the US. I suspect price mark-ups will be the same in BC as the US Pacific Northewest. So, 3% over invoice might be very good in your area. Suggest you try sending requests via e-mail to the dealers in a reasonable distance from your home and see who offers the best price.....
Soobydoobydo: There are 6 Subaru dealerships in BC, and 2, I have to take a ferry too. I have contacted all the dealers that have email, and 2 have replied me. (4 had email). CarcostCanada does not give invoice prices to non members, however the dealer that offered 3% has to give a final price, so I can just figure it out from there I guess.
I'm also thinking of contacting some dealers in Alberta, they only have 7% tax (we have 14%). Demand might be a little more there too. (They have more snow).
I don't think it's bad etiquette, but I had similar experiences back when I was shopping for my Forester and tried e-mailing dealers. Basically, it seemed to boil down those dealerships who took the potential of attracting buyers via the Internet seriously and those dealerships that just didn't seem to understand the concept. I ended up buying from a dealer who was extremely good about responding to e-mail (it actually helped me a lot in my negotiations that the salesman had helped build the Web site, and thus was eager to make a sale to prove the value of his efforts).
For me, getting quotes via email is so much easier. I don't have to talk, and in their response, I can just skip anything I don't want to read, whereas in person or on the phone, I would have to listen to them (salespeople). I would only go with dealers who respond my email, but in my case, I don't have much choice. I think I'll wait a few weeks for a reply before phoning.
Texsubaru: What do you mean by "... the salesman had helped build the Web site..." Should website be car? (it would make more sense).
I feel really fortunate living here in the Washington DC area when it comes to purchasing a Subaru. Although it is a somewhat popular car here, there are several dealers that discount the vehicle. Right now, the Fitzgerald Auto Mall Subaru dealership is selling Outbacks well below invoice. Too bad you are so far away. I understand that in your area, Subarus go for a premium so there might not be as much incentive to a dealer to negotiate or to sell the car very close to the invoice price. Regardless, since you are going to be spending a lot of money for your new car, you might want to consider spending the $20.00 at carcostcanada to get the invoice price. You might be able to recoup the cost by having enough information to negotiate a low price. Or, the car might be in so high demand that it really doesn't matter what info you have, they know if you don't pay a high price, someone will. (In this area, it is difficult to find many luxury sport cars at anything less then full MSRP; the dealers will not negotiate so invoice prices are meaningless.)
Be patient and persistant, wait for responses from those that you sent e-mail messages, and then deal with those who want your business and care enough to respond. Good luck.
Hmm......it's funny. So far, I've only seen 2 Y2K Outbacks and no legacys out of a 200m radius of the dealership.
Some of the people are far from business-like. Since I use icq, I normally forget my capitalization. But when writing to them, I put my full effort of press that shift key (the "suspension" on the key is wearing), and they give me a reply with no capitalization (not even on the salutation) and no line breaks!
The other thing is I contacted a salesperson directly (the dealer as a whole has yet to contact me, and it's been a week), and he said that he had to consult the manager on what's the lowest price he can give. That was Friday, Today is Sunday. Does it normally take so long? I tought it was just running to the manager and asking.
They think you're just playing, mr quag. Dealers don't like to give prices over the phone or by email, etc, because you may be one of those who will just shop the price around without giving them a chance to actually "sell" you. You could also be affiliated with another dealer who is trying to find out the competition. So you need to make them believe you.
Suggestion: Do you have the gm's name at each dealership? If it's not on the web, you can get it by calling and asking the receptionist. Address the email directly to him/her. Then make a specific offer for the car ... show that you've done your homework. This will get them to take the web, and you, seriously. (Spending money for themembership so you can deal with real numbers makes sense, too.)
If they don't respond to that, you can: 1) try the same offer by fax; 2) try the same offer by snailmail.
I guess sooner or later I'll hvae to leave the comfort of my computer desk and go to the dealers. (they are actually quite far. The nearest is about 30 minutes).
The dealer that I received a response from (not the salesperson) was the general manager. I think most of the emails go directly to either him or the sales manager.
Thanks for your help
Jeff
p.s: quag is not actually my last name...it's just a nickname
Re: an earlier post about fitzgerald automall online prices I compared the invoice price icluding destination chgs.provided here at Edmunds for a listed 2001 auto Outback ltd.at Fitzgerald including all options stated and found their price to be $353 over invoice, while that might be a good deal it doesnt look like its being sold under "true" factory invoice as indicated on their site.Perhaps Im missing something,any thoughts?
Mike , I dont know if your post was a response to my #410 post. Your process in determining an offering price is sound and one that I have used for years , but my posting was specifically related to fitzgeralds aotomall posted factory invoice price. My concern is not if the dealer is making a reasonable profit or not (if he isnt he wont sell the car)but whether or not the prices that are posted on the dealers web page are valid.
Yeah I'd say if it appears that he's taking a loss it is a come-on advertisement... You know the ones where they list the VIN #, and when you get there that VIN# is already sold...
In my experience, the dealer is straight up and honest. I imagine there are either other options not listed, or the freight was not included in your pricing (they offer bottom-line pricing that includes freight and all, add taxes only).
I've been there in person, and their prices are hard to beat. They offer an even lower internet price, $300 less to be specific, but then you give up some service perks.
Mischa: you GO girl! Demand a repainted hood, and do not back off. I detest pushy dealers.
2000 or 2001? Well, the 2000 has a regional incentive in some areas, so they can be $500 less, plus a very small price increase for the 2001s. But the 2001s get the bigger front brakes, the seat back map pockets, the dual trip odo, and some other nice little stuff, plus better resale in the end, so price is a wash. I'd get the 2001.
Juice: Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a guy! Happens all the time.
Seriously, the lady managing the service department at my dealership indicated that, in order to remove those pesky scratches, painting the entire hood may be the only way to go. I said "Well then...".
That may be a good way to convert my car slowly from Deep Saphire Pearl to bright yellow (like the Nissan Xterra), which is my favorite color.
A sense of humor can go a long way! I agree with you that a bright yellow Subaru could be outstanding! I did see a Legacy wagon just outside North Andover, MA painted that color and it looked great. The vehicle was advertising Mavic bicycle wheels.
Keep the pressure on the dealer. And, don't fail to inform SOA if the dealer is less than cooperative. By doing so, we all gain!
mr_quag (aka Jeff) asked: "Texsubaru: What do you mean by "... the salesman had helped build the Web site..." Should website be car? (it would make more sense)."
I mean the salesman who answered my e-mails had also built most of that car dealership's Web pages (posted the pages, probably using a fairly modest HTML layout program, posted some digital camera photos, that sort of thing). He hoped the Web site would drum up sales -- a correct assumption since I probably wouldn't have even visited that particular dealership (in Waco, TX) if I hadn't run across the Web site. I think he really wanted to make a sale to an "Internet customer" like me to prove to his compadres that the Web site would bring in customers. I didn't actually buy the car over the Web; drove up to Waco a couple of times to test-drive it first, but did most of the haggling via e-mail.
Interesting how people can be. First they are happy to give you an email quote, then they ask you to call them to get a "competitive price". What should I do in this case? Be persistant and let him know that if he doesn't quote me a price, I'm just going to go to another dealer?
Hi, I just bought a '98 Legacy GT limited at Carr Mart in Beaverton, Oregon for $14,997. It has 75,000 miles on it. After buying the car I logged onto this site and read most of its posts. Read a few posts that were negative about the dealer I bought my car from. My experience with them went fairly good so far.. They let me and my wife test drive 5 different subies, for about an hour.. They actually quoted me $17,997, but somehow it ended up $14,997 on the final papers somehow.. the sales man, washed my car up for me real nice and pealed all the sales stickers off. That night somehow I got a rock stuck behind the brakes, thus making a horrible squealling noise..made a few calls early sunday.. left messages.. 1 person call me back Sunday, and two early Monday, all seemed quite helpful, but I had fixed the problem by then. As far as any possibility of them rolling back miles.. they did not..it has 75,000 miles on it.. and I got ahold of the original owner and he told me the miles also.. Anyway, my experience was fairly good, and hope other peoples is also..Please let me know If you think I got a decent price.. I will eventually find out a 100,000 miles or so I guess.
Glad to know I'm not the only one here who likes Yellow. My 1988 XT6 is painted Chrome Yellow and has black pin-stripes and black trim. Pictures will be on my web-page soon.
In "classic cream" It was kinda tan, kinda white, pretty ugly. But it had a 455ci, dual exhaust no cats (factory) and could move like a mutha. And carry 6 comfortably with 4 stiffs in the trunk.
I'm from the Northeast so I didn't post on and have no opinion of your dealer. Just wanted to say that it's harder with used cars to determine a price because it depends on condition so much as well as location. And condition is sometimes very subjective (e.g. what you can and can't live with). My understanding is that prices in Oregon are steep, so if the car is in good to excellent condition despite the miles, you probably got a fair deal.
FWIW, I recently passed on a 97 GT Wagon in MA with 65K advertised for 13.9 then jumped to 17.9 then reduced to 13. But by then I had decided that I didn't want the car unless they were giving it away because of a minor exhaust problem, minor exterior damage and rather extensive interior damage. The former owner said she was stopped by police and her dog went nuts on the upholstery; it was repaired, but uncountably many tiny claw holes, etc. remained. So I offered 12 which based on the condition, was still generous IMO, they refused and I'm glad.
Comments
The VW dealer (Stevens Creek VW, San Jose, CA) didn't want me to touch a car until I understood that I'd be paying $3-4K OVER MSRP. "We have a unique situation right now; can't keep them on the floor, blah, blah." I said no thanks, and left for the Subaru dealer (Stevens Creek Subaru/Isuzu) thinking things couldn't possibly get any worse.
I was wrong.
I asked to drive a GT with automatic. The salesman took me to the only one on the lot, and we got in, and ... no gas. So I stood there, waiting for him to go get a gas can, and he stood there looking at me, and finally I said, "Uh, well ..." And he explained that well, gee, I could test drive an Outback with manual transmission: "It has the same feel."
Incredulous, I asked how they sell cars when they can't manage to put gas in them, and he explained that guess what: "It's a hot car right now; can't keep them on the floor, blah, blah."
What a crock! To Hell with both VW and Subaru!
Tomorrow I'll see if I'm treated any better at an Acura dealer.
I'm 56, BTW, neat and well-dressed.
$2000-$2500 is a fairly standard dealer margin for a trade-in. It also sounds like they're giving you a pretty good deal on the OB so they'll be less flexible on the trade-in. Another dealer might offer you more but would make it up by not giving you as good as a deal on the new vehicle.
Frank P.
Short story for all looking to trade a car, try Carmax. You might be pleasantly surprised.
you get this reply. FYI, I have heard repeated
horror stories about several of the auto dealers
on Stevens Creek in San Jose. One of the worst
is definitely the Subaru dealership there.
When I was test-driving recently, I think
they used some of the slimiest tactics of any
of the places I visited. The first time I went,
the salesperson trashed the last place I had been
(Honda) and attempted to engage in price
negotiation by asking if I would buy the car
that day if he gave it to me for half-price.
The second time I went to the lot (to take
another look at the colors), I had 5 salespeople
stand in front of the exit trying to block me
from leaving until I bought a car (might have
worked a few years ago but I have learned since
then!).
Anyway, I have heard other bad stories from
friends who went to Stevens Creek Subaru -
some have even felt they were involved in
some shady activities.
So, go to Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City (no
hassle pricing, straightforward dealing, even
let you test drive a Forester S premium by
yourself) or Santa Cruz Subaru (good prices,
laidback approach, nice demonstration of all
the features when you buy a new car) and enjoy!
-mike
Roger: your paying invoice for your new one, so don't be surprised that the dealer is offering wholesale for you trade. It apples-to-apples. He'd lose money otherwise.
You'll earn more selling it yourself, so you have to decide if it's worth the heart ache. Car Max sounds like an option.
Craig: are there other Subaru or VW dealers in your area? Dealers are independent, so don't drop a manufacturer because of one bad dealer experience!
-juice
I second the recommendation of Carlsen over Stevens Creek. Even if you had to bear two hours of rush hour traffic to get to Carlsen, I would still recommend it.
My experiences with Stevens Creek Subaru were... um, memorable. I test drove a Legacy GT there last year. I pulled to a stop light after a test drive on the freeway, looked over to the passenger side, and found the salesman ASLEEP.
When we got back to the dealership, they offered to "talk about it". I told them I wasn't going to buy a car and that they should spend their time on another customer, but they kept on insisting. I needed some haggling practice and if they were willing to waste some time on me... what the heck. For 45 minutes, in response to whatever they threw at me, I repeated this phrase verbatim: "I don't want to buy a car today." Got them down to $1K under invoice (incentives at the time?) before I flat out told them that I wouldn't buy the car even if they offered it for $10K. Well, some of them got frustrated and stormed out of the room. Too bad, I thought. If you had listened to me, you wouldn't have wasted your time.
Fast forward to this year at Carlsen. Test drove two 2000 Outbacks (auto and stick) on separate visits by myself for about 35 minutes each. Told the salesman I wanted an white Outback with the all-weather package and the security upgrade. He told me there wasn't one in stock but there would be one arriving in 2-3 weeks. I looked at his manifest and noticed the arriving Outback also had the woodgrain door trim installed. The salesman offered to remove it, but I decided to keep it. He offered 2.9% over invoice (about $600) and I took the offer. Three weeks later, the car was in and I drove away in less than an hour. I even got four free oil changes (a promotion at that time).
Carlsen is a one-price store and the sales volume leader in Northern California. You could probably haggle if you think it's worth it.
A few months later, I considered adding an aftermarket moonroof. I remembered that Carlsen installed them on a small number of their Outbacks, so I decided to check out quality of their installations. I walked into the showroom, explained my situation, and minutes later, I was outside playing around with the moonroof. They didn't try to sell me anything--in fact, they told me who they contracted the work out to and what the approximate cost was. After I was done poking around (about 10 minutes later), I thanked the salesman and that was that. Ultimately, I decided not to install a moonroof, but that's another story.
The moral? Carlsen GOOD, Stevens Creek BAD.
-juice
Here is not 1 but 2 horror stories about the subaru/isuzu dealer there...
In '97 I had leased my rodeo and my buddy who lived in DE loved it so he decides that we should go down there and check em out etc. This was in the fall of '97 after the new '98 had come out. I was leasing mine for $280/mo with $0 down. On the same vehicle they said the best they could do was $390/mo with $0 down. We were like "You are kidding?" They said nope, that was teh best they could do. So I said do I need to go outside and get the paperwork on my lease to show you? About the only good thing about them was I drove the '98 rodeo @ 105mph with the dealer in the car. I took him literally when he said "Go as fast as you want"
Fast foward 2 years...
I was looking at the troopers last summer, test drove one, it was a mid range, with no moonroof and no leather. I wanted both. This was in May actually. We get inside to start negotiating, and I told em I'd like to order one with leather and the roof, they said they can't order anymore and that they would get leather and moonroof put in. Knowing I wasn't actually buying it, I decide to go along with them... So the manager comes out and they start berrating me to buy the truck that day. "We are going to put you in this truck today, can you leave a deposit" So I am there and I go "does it have wheel locks?" they say "No but we can put em on" I say "well my dealer put wheel locks on my rodeo for free, can you do the same?"
They say to me "No we're sorry, it's $30 for the locks, and $40 labor to put em on" So I turn to them and say "You mean to tell me on this truck that is costing me $30,000 you are going to charge me to put on 4 lug nuts?" I get up and begin to walk out. "Where are you going?" me:"This discussion is over, there is no way I'm paying $40 on a $30K car to have you put on 5 lug nuts, if you are willing to let this deal slip through your hands for $40"
The price he was giving me was pretty bad to begin with, but they didn't seem to understand that I wasn't buying it that day no matter what.
On the flip side, Staten Island Isuzu/Subaru (Manfredi Motors) has an excellent staff, totally laid back attitude. I usually go there 1x a week just to say hello and see the manager and my sales guy, talk about cars and what not. We usually help em sell some cars while we are there too (it's always good to have some happy customers there to sell a car)
-mike
Dealers can be so short-sighted some times.
-juice
Dad's coming in about two weeks, and will buy one probably the day he arrives.
-juice
Deliveries of 2001 Outbacks to the dealers have been made already. Other than an exterior temp gauge, I saw NO difference from the 2000 Outback. Of course, nothing has been shipped with the H6 engine as of yet!
Regards,
Don
Little stuff, but useful nonetheless.
My dad may end up waiting - he's shipping his '92 Ford Taurus wagon back here (silly, IMHO) before he arrives, so he's in less of a rush now. I'll probably recommend he wait for the 2001s.
-juice
You're right on. The 2001 Outback I looked at DID have the map pockets (netting), dual trip odo, and outside gauge. I did not ask about bigger front brakes but have heard that also. The model I saw was the wine color. I've heard on the board that wintergreen will also be offered. It seems (no confirmation) that the artic white will be available with H6s only.
Boy, you sure know your stuff!
Regards,
Don
He wants the wine as a first choice, green 2nd, so I'm glad to hear that they'll be available.
-juice
Assuming that your 23,3K didn't include the $495 destination charge, you paid $650 over invoice. Edmunds estimates the true market value for the Forester as being approx 3% over invoice which is $679 in your case based upon an $22,647 est true invoice. Therefore your dealer's profit was that 3% plus the 2% manufacturer's holdback.
Frank P.
Sure enough, the on-line dealer I usually refer to lists 2001 Legacys for sale already. Some are $100 under invoice, though the 2000s were $600 under because of the dealer incentive.
Still, there's all the "gravy" with the new features, plus at resale you'll make it back.
-juice
I can't believe my luck!
They loved their 2001 Forester auto, and it hit 60 in a scant 9.1 seconds.
-juice
Geri
I hope my dealership in the DFW area is reading this post.
I recently bought a 2000 Outback. I needed a car right away and this dealership happened to have the one I wanted. It had a few small scratches on the hood. The sales person promised me to get them out. I wouldn't see them at all, but I would have to bring the car in on a Friday, because the guy who specializes on this type of job gets contracted only on Fridays. I bought the car (at invoice) and drove off happily.
A few days later, I had some accessories installed at which occasion the scratches got "treated" as well. It was a Tuesday. Afterwards, I found that there was just some paint put on the scratches. They were still clearly visible and very rough. So they didn't even polish the surface. And it was a Tuesday, which indicated that the "scratch expert" didn't work on the scratches. I really want to get the scratches fixed in a professional manner (well, it was part of the deal). So I complained. "No problem", was the answer, "bring the car in on a Friday". Since then (2 weeks) I am trying to get the repair scheduled by email and by phone. No answer to my emails. Interestingly, when I inquired about the car before buying it, I got answers within 10 minutes... When I call, the person handling my case is not available. My sales person is referring me to the person who is not available. The receptionist said she left a note with that person. No answer. Did I mention that I didn't fill out my survey yet...
Another thing. My car had 70 (seventy) miles when I purchased it. I am not complaining about the fact that it had been test driven a few times, as I elected to buy it. However, when registering the car, the dealership has to pass on the odometer reading to the registration bureau. The lady handling that showed the form to me, and it said "10 miles". I pointed out the "mistake" after which the lady retyped the form with the correct number on it. However, when I received my title yesterday, it said "10 miles"! Not a biggie, but something that makes me a bit uncomfortable.
I am sort of fed up, but I will give this dealership another week to get the job scheduled/done. If I don't hear from them, I will reveal on this forum what dealership it is and will spread the word accordingly. I will then fill out my survey and take my future business/maintenance needs, etc. somewhere else, allowing a competing dealership to remove my dealership's advertisement and replacing it with their own.
Any comments/suggestions ?
Mischa
My question: getting ready to look/purchase a Legacy sedan (L or GT) for my wife's use. Probably will have the time to devote in two or three weeks.
That means I'll be pretty close to the time the '01s will be coming out. So, I'm wondering....
Assuming the two cars (00 & 01) are pretty much the same in features, options, etc., should I expect to get any kind of an _additional_ price break on the "left over"?
On the one hand, after a month either one I purchase would be "used," have the same miles, and so on. But would they have depreciated the same amount?
Otoh, the '00 would be a year "older." I realize that will be an impact on its value when I trade it in some day.
So: can I save any significant money by buying a leftover Subaru? Or is it a wash? Anyone have an experience that will help me decide how to approach it?
Thanks.
Take care.
Joe W.
I looked at www.fitzgeraldautomall.com and it looks like they are selling 2001 Legacy's a few hundred dollars UNDER invoice (Internet price) and 2000's at even a greater discount. If you live in the Washington DC area, or can get here, looks like there are great bargains to be had on both the 2000s and 2001s. (For anyone looking for a great buy on a Subaru, and you really enjoy driving, why not visit our area and buy the car here; you can see some great sites and then drive home in your new Subaru.)
I'm looking for a 2000 Subaru Legacy in the Vancouver area, Canada. I know that the US invoice price is $18097 and MRSP $19895, which means that the MRSP is 109.5% of the invoice, or if you prefer, 9.5% more than the invoice. Can I use the same % with the Canadian MRSP to get the invoice?
Also, is it bad etiquette to contact dealers for prices thru email? Because for some reason, 50% (of 4 ealers) didn't reply me. And the ones who do reply me take a couple days.
So far, the best/only offer I got is 3% markup of the invoice. The problem is that I only have a rough idea of what the invoice is. So is 3% considred "good"?
Jeff
Try www.carcostcanada.com to get some info on canadian dealer prices.
It seems that the selling price for a Subaru is considerably less in the Middle Atlantic states where I live in comparison to the selling prices in the Pacific Northwest part of the US. I suspect price mark-ups will be the same in BC as the US Pacific Northewest. So, 3% over invoice might be very good in your area. Suggest you try sending requests via e-mail to the dealers in a reasonable distance from your home and see who offers the best price.....
Good luck and keep us informed.
There are 6 Subaru dealerships in BC, and 2, I have to take a ferry too. I have contacted all the dealers that have email, and 2 have replied me. (4 had email). CarcostCanada does not give invoice prices to non members, however the dealer that offered 3% has to give a final price, so I can just figure it out from there I guess.
I'm also thinking of contacting some dealers in Alberta, they only have 7% tax (we have 14%). Demand might be a little more there too. (They have more snow).
Jeff
Texsubaru: What do you mean by "... the salesman had helped build the Web site..." Should website be car? (it would make more sense).
Jeff
I feel really fortunate living here in the Washington DC area when it comes to purchasing a Subaru. Although it is a somewhat popular car here, there are several dealers that discount the vehicle. Right now, the Fitzgerald Auto Mall Subaru dealership is selling Outbacks well below invoice. Too bad you are so far away. I understand that in your area, Subarus go for a premium so there might not be as much incentive to a dealer to negotiate or to sell the car very close to the invoice price. Regardless, since you are going to be spending a lot of money for your new car, you might want to consider spending the $20.00 at carcostcanada to get the invoice price. You might be able to recoup the cost by having enough information to negotiate a low price. Or, the car might be in so high demand that it really doesn't matter what info you have, they know if you don't pay a high price, someone will. (In this area, it is difficult to find many luxury sport cars at anything less then full MSRP; the dealers will not negotiate so invoice prices are meaningless.)
Be patient and persistant, wait for responses from those that you sent e-mail messages, and then deal with those who want your business and care enough to respond. Good luck.
Some of the people are far from business-like. Since I use icq, I normally forget my capitalization. But when writing to them, I put my full effort of press that shift key (the "suspension" on the key is wearing), and they give me a reply with no capitalization (not even on the salutation) and no line breaks!
The other thing is I contacted a salesperson directly (the dealer as a whole has yet to contact me, and it's been a week), and he said that he had to consult the manager on what's the lowest price he can give. That was Friday, Today is Sunday. Does it normally take so long? I tought it was just running to the manager and asking.
Thanks
Jeff
Suggestion: Do you have the gm's name at each dealership? If it's not on the web, you can get it by calling and asking the receptionist. Address the email directly to him/her. Then make a specific offer for the car ... show that you've done your homework. This will get them to take the web, and you, seriously. (Spending money for themembership so you can deal with real numbers makes sense, too.)
If they don't respond to that, you can: 1) try the same offer by fax; 2) try the same offer by snailmail.
Hope this helps out. Let us know how you do.
Take care.
Joe W.
I guess sooner or later I'll hvae to leave the comfort of my computer desk and go to the dealers. (they are actually quite far. The nearest is about 30 minutes).
The dealer that I received a response from (not the salesperson) was the general manager. I think most of the emails go directly to either him or the sales manager.
Thanks for your help
Jeff
p.s: quag is not actually my last name...it's just a nickname
-mike
I've been there in person, and their prices are hard to beat. They offer an even lower internet price, $300 less to be specific, but then you give up some service perks.
Mischa: you GO girl! Demand a repainted hood, and do not back off. I detest pushy dealers.
2000 or 2001? Well, the 2000 has a regional incentive in some areas, so they can be $500 less, plus a very small price increase for the 2001s. But the 2001s get the bigger front brakes, the seat back map pockets, the dual trip odo, and some other nice little stuff, plus better resale in the end, so price is a wash. I'd get the 2001.
-juice
Seriously, the lady managing the service department at my dealership indicated that, in order to remove those pesky scratches, painting the entire hood may be the only way to go. I said "Well then...".
That may be a good way to convert my car slowly from Deep Saphire Pearl to bright yellow (like the Nissan Xterra), which is my favorite color.
Mischa
A sense of humor can go a long way! I agree with you that a bright yellow Subaru could be outstanding! I did see a Legacy wagon just outside North Andover, MA painted that color and it looked great. The vehicle was advertising Mavic bicycle wheels.
Keep the pressure on the dealer. And, don't fail to inform SOA if the dealer is less than cooperative. By doing so, we all gain!
Good luck!
Don
I mean the salesman who answered my e-mails had also built most of that car dealership's Web pages (posted the pages, probably using a fairly modest HTML layout program, posted some digital camera photos, that sort of thing). He hoped the Web site would drum up sales -- a correct assumption since I probably wouldn't have even visited that particular dealership (in Waco, TX) if I hadn't run across the Web site. I think he really wanted to make a sale to an "Internet customer" like me to prove to his compadres that the Web site would bring in customers. I didn't actually buy the car over the Web; drove up to Waco a couple of times to test-drive it first, but did most of the haggling via e-mail.
Interesting how people can be. First they are happy to give you an email quote, then they ask you to call them to get a "competitive price". What should I do in this case? Be persistant and let him know that if he doesn't quote me a price, I'm just going to go to another dealer?
Jeff
My 1988 XT6 is painted Chrome Yellow and has black pin-stripes and black trim.
Pictures will be on my web-page soon.
Darlene
I should know better, too. I'm Brazilian and work at the World Bank, where 60% of the staff are foreigners.
I'd take a B4 RSK turbo in yellow. Heck, I'd take ANY turbo in yellow.
-juice
-mike
Mary
-mike
Convenient, too, it hid the actual rust very well!
The hatchback design meant I couldn't carry any stiffs, though
-juice
I'm from the Northeast so I didn't post on and have no opinion of your dealer. Just wanted to say that it's harder with used cars to determine a price because it depends on condition so much as well as location. And condition is sometimes very subjective (e.g. what you can and can't live with). My understanding is that prices in Oregon are steep, so if the car is in good to excellent condition despite the miles, you probably got a fair deal.
FWIW, I recently passed on a 97 GT Wagon in MA with 65K advertised for 13.9 then jumped to 17.9 then reduced to 13. But by then I had decided that I didn't want the car unless they were giving it away because of a minor exhaust problem, minor exterior damage and rather extensive interior damage. The former owner said she was stopped by police and her dog went nuts on the upholstery; it was repaired, but uncountably many tiny claw holes, etc. remained. So I offered 12 which based on the condition, was still generous IMO, they refused and I'm glad.
The main thing is welcome and enjoy your new car.
Mary