Drew, I must admit the times I've done that weren't even remotely close to normal stops. Once on gravel-- quickly decided that ABS sucked there (nothing like firsthand experience to back up what you read), once on snow-- almost got the neighbor's mailbox, and once on dry tarmac after a nice spin-- off camber, downhill corner at an autocross.
I suppose I ought to try a hardcore 60-0 test to see if my ABS still acts the way it does.
gtdriver -- Yes, based on my understanding, the A/T AWD system will split power starting at 50/50 in 1st, 2nd and R. I don't think it locks the front and rear axles, but instead starts with a 50/50 split and adjusts power accordingly. In 3rd and 4th it starts at 90/10 and adjusts accordingly. In contrast, the M/T AWD system always starts 50/50 in every gear.
graham -- The term "xenon headlamps" can be confusing. The type that you described is what Drew explained in his post (HID lighting). The other type mentioned in this topic is simply a regular halogen bulb with a trace amount of xenon gas. The xenon gas helps the filament to burn slightly hotter thereby producing more light. These bulbs do not produce anywhere near the light output of HID lighting and consequently don't have the characteristic glare.
KenS reported the torque split accurately for the automatic vs manual trannys. Hopefully, this clears up any confusion. I researched this as well before cementing my decision to go with the automatic even though I knew that I would be losing some acceleration when compared to the manual. Either I've become more accustomed to the power delivery w/the auto. or my car is getting more broken in, but I notice less of a difference from when I test drove both manual and auto versions of the OB Ltd. I suspect it's a little of both.
I'm sorry, I had to reread your sentence (Friday, you know). I believe that the auto. version is 50/50 when placed in 1st gear, 2nd, and reverser with the gear shift lever. Anybody read otherwise?
...could be only when the shifter is physically placed in the 1st/2nd/Reverse gear selector positions. But it could also be that in the first two forward gears (when the shifter is in "D") and reverse, the torque split is 50/50. The latter would be logical as there would be minimal wheelslip upon initial acceleration.
I suspect that it is probably a combination of both of these ideas though (i.e. 50/50 when in 1st/2nd/R, regardless of shifter position).
I installed the Subaru single-CD player in my new OB this morning (got it from Darlene at Q Subaru), and am quite amazed with the sound. With cassette or FM, the factory radio didn't sound very impressive, and I could feel it running out of volume when I cranked it up. With CD, it's like a totally different system. I know CD has a wider dynamic range than cassette or radio, but the sound difference with CD is much better than I expected, and seems to go beyond what a few extra Hz would do. Besides an increase in quality, the whole system seems to have more power. This is all with the stock (not premium) speakers.
Anybody thinking about adding CD to a base OB should definitely consider the Subaru unit. Yeah, it's more expensive than getting a totally new CD receiver, but it has the added benefit of blending in nicely and anonymously -- I think a stock Subaru radio system will probably disinterest most would-be thieves. That, and not having to monkey with detachable face plates is a big plus to me. Anything that sounds this good is worth consideration.
The Subaru World Rally Team homepage can be seen at www.swrt.com .
You can see specs of the Prodrive tweaked WRC Impreza by clicking on "Team" followed by "the car". Interestingly, they use 6 piston caliper water cooled brakes (similar to the Euro tractor race trucks) on the asphalt.
After waiting about three weeks, I picked up my Forester today! I know three weeks isn't that long, but patience isn't my strong suit. It's a red 2001, premium package (just like Pat88's, excluding the brush guard). I love it! Unfortunately, I have to fly out of town for work next week, so I have the weekend to enjoy it, then it can rest in the garage.
Foresters must be getting popular in Nebraska. Another salesman was ready to sell mine to someone else before he realized it was already sold.
The Sunday New York Times "Automobiles" column is about the Outback: http://www.nytimes.com/library/auto/wheels/071600auto.html. Unfortunately in the online version you don't get the fairly nice -- though quite basic -- little chart they ran in the print version (p. 33 of the National Edition) comparing it with the Audi Quattro BMW325xi, Mercedes E320, Passat and Volvo.
Craig: I have to agree with you concerning the CD player. I have the stock Subaru system in my 2001 Forester with the single CD player. The only upgrade to the system is the tweeter kit. While using the radio, the system is unimpressive but adequate. However, when using the CD player it feels and sounds like a more powerful system and sounds plenty good for my needs. Then again, I never really was a car audio buff.
Pat88: Nice ride. The monotone red looks real nice with the premium package. Love that brushgaurd. I think I'll have to add that to my list of upgrades for the Forester. Congrats on your new red forester as well Fayes.
Good article. It mentioned the excessive brake pedal play, which I've grown accustomed to. The article neglected to mention the AMC Eagle in the list of previous AWD wagons. The Eagle was a great car to have if you wanted to spend your entire weekend performing auto maintenance.
I would have liked to see that comparision chart as well.
I have a 99 Forester S with a CD & Tweeter kit. The sound was always a little unimpressive. About 3 weeks ago I replaced the 4 door mounted speakers. I ordered the replacements from Crutchfield - 2 Cerwin Vegas for the front and 2 Polk Audio for the rear. They were delivered the next day. What an incredible difference!
Although the swap out wasn't quite the easy switch I was anticipating, (some minor mod's were required for the front) overall it was a relatively painless process. The difference in sound is astonishing. I hear bass ! Real Bass ! The OEM speakers are paper cone, small magnet junk. Originally, I wasn't sure if it was the electronics or the speakers ... it's the speakers.
We came back from vacation and had a bit of a problem at our home. Our neighbor's house caught on fire and severly damaged ours. Since I do most of my visiting to this site from home and my computer is there, I haven't been able to check in. I will be trying to jump in here from work while this mess is straightened out. I'll post some responses by the end of the day today. Thanks in advance for your understanding!
Sorry to hear about your home. I hope everything works out for the better. Glad to have you back. Thought we may have scared you away with all our questions directed to you.
Patti: what can I say? Glad you're OK, sorry it happened? We miss you but please take your time getting everything resolved. I too was hoping you had "borrowed" an H6 for your very own long-term test
Hutch: let's hop over to the "Events" topic to get a group together for the Edmunds Live stop in DC. I'm in, Mike's probable. I bet we can get Lucien to go. Where else can you drive a Forester, an XTerra, and an Escape back-to-back on an off road track? Wonder if they'll have the 2.5 RS. Hope so!
Paisan: I though it was a "rhino bar". Guess it depends on where you live. That's what the Aussies in the Yahoo Forester Club call it (from experience, perhaps?).
Pat: looks sweet. I didn't like the red until I saw yours.
2ndwnd: trail sounds like fun. We need more stuff like that here in the east.
It's a big tall statue you can actually see from the highway. I think that's US50 isn't it?
Western Kansas is pretty bad though, not quite like West Texas (Amarillo, for example) but it's getting there. The drive from Branson west into south-central Kansas along US166 is gorgeous and very twisty.
EPA says its a passenger car. IIHS and NHTSA call it a small SUV, as do most publications (AAA, CR, C&D, etc).
Subaru calls it both, really. A hybrid, if you will. I call it a sport/cute.
But the term "SUV" is vague at best. Does a 2WD unibody Cherokee count? What about a Hummer, with 4 wheel independent suspension in place of solid axles? New SUVs have both a unibody and independent suspensions, so where do you draw the line? Low range? Aussie Soobs have them, but Escape/CR-V/RAV4 do not.
Federal regulators have their work cut out for them with all the new crossover hybrids.
So let's see, Chris owns an Accord and dreams of a BMW. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you don't want an elephantine truck; that a nimble handler that's still fun to drive would be more like it.
In that case, Forester is just what the doctor ordered. It won't alienate a car owner like you used to a comfortable ride, gives you pretty much everything most consumers really need from an SUV, and still manages to be fun to boot.
Bonus: it costs less and gets better gas mileage than those SUVs anyway.
Please understand, I'm a certified Subaphile like the rest of you, but amid all the splendour which is the new Outback, there is still much to leave me scratching my head. Today's topic: why is Subaru ashamed of its tow-hooks? The other day I decided to practice removing the front tow-hook cover (just in case I ever need it on some cold, wet night). If you haven't tried this yet, I would recommend it. Its not exactly difficult to remove the cover, but it isn't particularly easy either (like everything nowdays, its secured by cheap little molded plastic tabs, relying upon the elasticity of the part to hold things together: give me threaded fasteners). Here's my question: If somebody comes along to tow my car and I'm not there to tell them where the secret tow-hook is and how to get to it, will they just slap the hook onto anything they can find and start pulling? And, even if they figure out where the tow-hook is concealled, will they be as careful as I was not to snap off the tabs? Personally, I much prefer the big, honest towhook which sticks out of the grill on my 92 Legacy.
Concealed tow hooks are not uncommon. The one on the back bumper of my ML is also hidden behind a plastic cover on the rear bumper. I think having one sticking out in the grill would probably not be very aesthetically pleasing to many, nor would it be very aerodynamic.
FYI, I believe that dealerships were actually instructed (in a recall?) to remove the tow hooks in the previous generation (I think) Legacys/Outbacks. There was concern that the tow hooks may make contact while driving over bumps or sloped pavement, and that in turn would set off the airbags.
If you are illegally parked, the city will come and hook you up, also ruining your awd unit in the process. Or when you drive through snow banks and end up @ a 70 degree angle in a ditch with your XT6 and have to get your buddy with his RS to tow you out...
I had to be towed out by a 5 ton gravel truck this past winter. The roads were damned slippery and two different fullsize trucks couldn't get me out of a ditch. No damage to the scooby btw, but I did call in sick to work (after spending 90 minutes in the snow in dress shoes!).
-Colin PS, the gravel truck yanked me out of the ditch like a toy.
Edmunds.com has a nice picture of the Forester, with the huge moonroof and the rear spoiler (which looks pretty good, IMHO). The rear spoiler, clear rear signal lamps, and monocromatic paint job give the Forester a much sportier look than before.
I'd take it with a few grains of salt though. They lumped the M-class and X5 together with the behemoths such as the TLC, VW Eurovan, Ford Expedition!! Anyone who thinks the Ford Excursion has about the same rollover probability as the Subaru Impreza must have a few screws loose. But, at least the Legacy is in the same category as the Porsche Boxster :-)
A couple of years ago, the TV programme "Wild About Wheels" aired a small section of the IMSA-certified Subaru comparison tests at Willow Springs. From the short amount of footage that I saw, the Legacy GT/Outback did extremely well vs. the competition. The tests were informative and quite entertaining.
I was wondering if it is at all possible for you to make this video available to us. I'm sure that everyone would be interested in seeing it.
The Outback ran great. I love that car! Could it really just be a car?
I said: Outback (have'vt given it a name yet), it's time to take you on up North for a look and let you see other Outbacks like yourself. I think it was beganing to think it was a Truck.
Found a bunch of Subarus in a parking Lot in Clayton,Mo. Said hey! See there, this is what other 00 Outbacks look like. Let me tell you folks,raising this Outback is no easy job.
Now it's out in the garage telling old Sube about all it's adventures on Highway 67 into Branson,Mo. from I-44. Old Sube has seen a lot of this Country, so I don't think He's going to be impressed.
Subaru team...sorry to hear about that. Fix'em up and keep going.
Let's hope I never need to use that tow hook, except to save someone else, of course!
Drew: I saw that report, but disagreed so strongly I didn't even feel like sharing the results.
They put the Explorer way, way below the Forester, probably because of a longer wheelbase. Guess what Monica Lewinsky rolled over in, though?
The Forester is in the same category as the Wrangler, gimme a break! Read up on the rollover topic under SUVs, and the same ones keep coming up: Explorer, Sportage, Blazer, and Wrangler.
I think they took height, wheelbase, and track into account, but this doesn't account for center of gravity, never mind suspension tuning or the ESP in the M-Class. The boxer engine sits at about knee level, versus waist or even chest level for some SUVs.
NHTSA will have numbers out this fall that supposedly account for center of gravity instead of just height. It still means little, since it's not a dynamic measure, though. I'll take a moose avoidance test any day over both of those static measures.
In a follow up article, Subaru even claimed the Impreza was less likely to roll over vs. their own Legacy.
I laughing, but not at the prarie dog thing. It's the Dave #274 that cracks me up. We probably do have about that many.
Oh I'm all over that BS rollover index in topic #933 in News&Views, rollover risk study. I'll try to link it (hate this javascript topic junk, usually don't do it right). >
If you go into the article, it states that the formula was derived from empirical evidence of 33 "cars" back in the late 80s to early 90s. Anyone know which cars they used? Any trucks in there?
As with any data-dervied formula, it predicts well only for samples that resemble the original data points. I wonder how many of those 33 "cars" had a boxer engine with a low center of gravity?
I totally agree, I have a hard time believing that the much lower Forester is in the same category as the CR-V (which incidentally did rollover in the NHTSA's side impact crash test). I really hope that the NHTSA's index does a heck of a lot better. Of course, since it is only a static test instead of the much more relevant dynamic test, one can't expect too much from it either.
FWIW, I have yet to see/hear of a rollover involving an M-class from model year 1999 onwards. MY1999 is when ESP was added, so it seems like the system is doing its job pretty well.
Colin: how'd I know that would press your hot buttons?
There was one rollover in that topic of an early M-Class, but it was pulling a trailer and that was what caused the whole mess, so it isn't really relevant.
Anyone have a URL for the Swedish mag that does the Moose Test? Now that's more like it.
I read the NY Time review and other reviews that state that the OB is only capable of light-duty off-roading. That just does not wash with my experiences. Here in AZ the backroads fall into two categorys; roads and trails.
A trail is a narrow 2 track that pretty much promises scratched paint, banged undercarriages, and serious rock crawling no matter what vehicle you take down it. About 80% of the vehicles I see on trails are modified for off road performance.
A road may not be maintained but is generally passable in any higher clearance vehicle. It's steepest grades will not require low range. It may be very rough but there is no boulder hopping required.
I have taken my 2000 OB down more than a hundred mile of Forest Service and backroads. Every mile put a smile on my face. I'm confident that it can tackle roads as well as any SUV. I have "rally raced" it down flat gravel roads and poked up rocky desert mountain switchbacks. It's limits will be found only on the trails that promise scrathes and punishment even for modified SUV's. I'm happy keeping my 2000 Suby off the trails.
On top of it's capability there's the comfort. It is a comfortable ride on even the roughest roads. (And the CD player has never skipped!) Trucks and SUV's can't touch it in that measure.
Next time I have it out on the backroads I'll get some pictures so that you can see what I mean.
If you're willing to bang it up a little, you're probably right. The approach/departure angles are a bit modest, though. Just careful not to high center - bring a spotter and a winch
But that's bone-stock. Most, like you say, are heavily modified. We used the say the best Jeeps were not bought; they were built.
So, how 'bout some taller springs from ISR, a metal skid plate up front, a rear diffy protector, and some slightly bigger, more aggressive tires with fender flares to keep all the dirt they throw up under control?
I hope Subaru brings the dual range trannies over here, too. The ST-X had one, was that a hint?
I got a feeling I'm keeping my Forester forever. I still can't decide which direction I'm leaning towards (lifting it or slamming it), but it'll be my play toy a decade from now.
Allow me to dream for a minute...if I could afford a WRX wagon, then I could lift the 'ster and have the best of both worlds. Ain't life grand?
-juice
PS Anyone else see the Pikes Peak hill climb? Packed gravel - can you imagine any more fun than that?
I live just down the road from a facory outlet mall, and they did indeed have a Samsonite outlet store. I picked up a luggage carrier for $40, just like you said. I won't get to use it for another ten days, but I'm ready now.
It won't be too expensive, can't outprice the legacies. I'm betting the WRX to be in the 25-27 range tops maybe closer to 23-24. Still trying to figure out what to get to replace the XT6. Used RS, new WRX or SVX...
We had a '98 ML320 owner (pre-ESP), from the mailing list, who was towing a U-haul trailer along a notoriously problematic (from wind) stretch of highway. He was sitting in the front passenger seat at a time, with a less experience driver behind the wheel. The trailer moved sideways from a crosswind, and the driver was unable to compensate (I think she overcorrected too) and they ended up rolling over by the side of the highway. The vehicle was badly damaged - totalled - (but the engine still running, even on its side) with the roof pushed in about 3-4 inches. Apparently no one had an injuries though.
The first A-class failed the moose test, but MB spent millions to change the design and fit to ESP to the vehicle. Current owners were offered the improved versions of the vehicle. Hmm, Suzuki and Isuzu could learn something from them. Check this out: <<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/aclacap.htm">http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/aclacap.htm>. BTW, the M-class passed the same moose test without incident, even without ESP. In fact, it did very well, especially for an SUV. Popular Science even pointed out that it was capable of much higher cornering speeds vs. other SUVs.
Juice....if I were to do anything to my Forester I would lift it as opposed to slamming it. I guess I just prefer the aggressive high stance look as opposed to the slammed look. Then again, I won't be doing any major mods like that to my forester until the warranty runs out. In the mean time, it's fun to think about. Maybe just a few minor mods such as the ones you have given your Forester would be enough to hold a guy over until then
You probably don't want to lift the vehicle too much. This changes the driveshaft angle and will cause you to keep ruining CV joints. This is why those pickup truck lift kits aren't very good if you don't change your driveshafts to compensate for the different angles.
Glad you were able to find the Samsonite, Dave. Anyone in the DC area can just borrow mine if it's short-term.
Drew: that was the case I was referring to. Brazilians love the A-class, it just doesn't do much for me style-wise. You'd be surprised at how much I read up on
Skip: so true. The ice racers I've seen are probably a lot of fun, but to my eyes they look a little silly. Besides, the RS is the model for that type of driving.
I hear you about the aggressive lifts. The Yahoo Forester club is full of those, some with 4" plus tires and even re-welded spring bases for another half inch. One of them removed the front and rear bumpers - it looks like a bizarre safari vehicle. Sure enough, they tranny can be tough to engage (or it pops out of gear), and they've come up with several McGyveresque solutions.
The modest 2" lifts are generally trouble-free, though.
Comments
I suppose I ought to try a hardcore 60-0 test to see if my ABS still acts the way it does.
-Colin
graham -- The term "xenon headlamps" can be confusing. The type that you described is what Drew explained in his post (HID lighting). The other type mentioned in this topic is simply a regular halogen bulb with a trace amount of xenon gas. The xenon gas helps the filament to burn slightly hotter thereby producing more light. These bulbs do not produce anywhere near the light output of HID lighting and consequently don't have the characteristic glare.
Stephen
-mike
Stephen
I suspect that it is probably a combination of both of these ideas though (i.e. 50/50 when in 1st/2nd/R, regardless of shifter position).
Drew
Anybody thinking about adding CD to a base OB should definitely consider the Subaru unit. Yeah, it's more expensive than getting a totally new CD receiver, but it has the added benefit of blending in nicely and anonymously -- I think a stock Subaru radio system will probably disinterest most would-be thieves. That, and not having to monkey with detachable face plates is a big plus to me. Anything that sounds this good is worth consideration.
Craig
You can see specs of the Prodrive tweaked WRC Impreza by clicking on "Team" followed by "the car". Interestingly, they use 6 piston caliper water cooled brakes (similar to the Euro tractor race trucks) on the asphalt.
Enjoy!
Drew
Foresters must be getting popular in Nebraska. Another salesman was ready to sell mine to someone else before he realized it was already sold.
Faye
Unfortunately in the online version you don't get the fairly nice -- though quite basic -- little chart they ran in the print version (p. 33 of the National Edition) comparing it with the Audi Quattro BMW325xi, Mercedes E320, Passat and Volvo.
I have to agree with you concerning the CD player. I have the stock Subaru system in my 2001 Forester with the single CD player. The only upgrade to the system is the tweeter kit. While using the radio, the system is unimpressive but adequate. However, when using the CD player it feels and sounds like a more powerful system and sounds plenty good for my needs. Then again, I never really was a car audio buff.
Pat88:
Nice ride. The monotone red looks real nice with the premium package. Love that brushgaurd. I think I'll have to add that to my list of upgrades for the Forester. Congrats on your new red forester as well Fayes.
Skip
I would have liked to see that comparision chart as well.
-Lee
Frank P.
Enjoy!
Drew
I have a 99 Forester S with a CD & Tweeter kit. The sound was always a little unimpressive. About 3 weeks ago I replaced the 4 door mounted speakers. I ordered the replacements from Crutchfield - 2 Cerwin Vegas for the front and 2 Polk Audio for the rear. They were delivered the next day. What an incredible difference!
Although the swap out wasn't quite the easy switch I was anticipating, (some minor mod's were required for the front) overall it was a relatively painless process. The difference in sound is astonishing. I hear bass ! Real Bass !
The OEM speakers are paper cone, small magnet junk. Originally, I wasn't sure if it was the electronics or the speakers ... it's the speakers.
-hutch
-mike
Bob
Hutch: let's hop over to the "Events" topic to get a group together for the Edmunds Live stop in DC. I'm in, Mike's probable. I bet we can get Lucien to go. Where else can you drive a Forester, an XTerra, and an Escape back-to-back on an off road track? Wonder if they'll have the 2.5 RS. Hope so!
Paisan: I though it was a "rhino bar". Guess it depends on where you live. That's what the Aussies in the Yahoo Forester Club call it (from experience, perhaps?).
Pat: looks sweet. I didn't like the red until I saw yours.
2ndwnd: trail sounds like fun. We need more stuff like that here in the east.
-juice
Western Kansas is pretty bad though, not quite like West Texas (Amarillo, for example) but it's getting there. The drive from Branson west into south-central Kansas along US166 is gorgeous and very twisty.
-Colin
Bob
Subaru calls it both, really. A hybrid, if you will. I call it a sport/cute.
But the term "SUV" is vague at best. Does a 2WD unibody Cherokee count? What about a Hummer, with 4 wheel independent suspension in place of solid axles? New SUVs have both a unibody and independent suspensions, so where do you draw the line? Low range? Aussie Soobs have them, but Escape/CR-V/RAV4 do not.
Federal regulators have their work cut out for them with all the new crossover hybrids.
So let's see, Chris owns an Accord and dreams of a BMW. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you don't want an elephantine truck; that a nimble handler that's still fun to drive would be more like it.
In that case, Forester is just what the doctor ordered. It won't alienate a car owner like you used to a comfortable ride, gives you pretty much everything most consumers really need from an SUV, and still manages to be fun to boot.
Bonus: it costs less and gets better gas mileage than those SUVs anyway.
-juice
AnotherUbiquitousDave
FYI, I believe that dealerships were actually instructed (in a recall?) to remove the tow hooks in the previous generation (I think) Legacys/Outbacks. There was concern that the tow hooks may make contact while driving over bumps or sloped pavement, and that in turn would set off the airbags.
Drew
When do you use these, though? Besides to rescue 4Runners like our hero Dave Chen, that is.
-juice
aling1:
ateixeira
Is this what you're lookinng for?
Service Bulletin Number: 041399
Bulletin Sequence Number: 595
Date of Bulletin: 9904
NHTSA Item Number: SB605951
Make: SUBARU
Model: LEGACY
Year: 1996
Component: EQUIPMENT:LIFT:WHEEL/TOWING APPARATUS
Summary: SUBJECT REGARDING FRONT TOW-HOOK REMOVAL CAMPAIGN. *TT
-juice
-mike
-Colin
PS, the gravel truck yanked me out of the ditch like a toy.
Check out this "predicted rollover probability" info: http://www.usatoday.com/money/consumer/autos/mauto696.htm
I'd take it with a few grains of salt though. They lumped the M-class and X5 together with the behemoths such as the TLC, VW Eurovan, Ford Expedition!! Anyone who thinks the Ford Excursion has about the same rollover probability as the Subaru Impreza must have a few screws loose. But, at least the Legacy is in the same category as the Porsche Boxster :-)
Drew
I was wondering if it is at all possible for you to make this video available to us. I'm sure that everyone would be interested in seeing it.
TIA!
Drew
Back from the Gateway to the West.
The Outback ran great. I love that car!
Could it really just be a car?
I said: Outback (have'vt given it a name yet),
it's time to take you on up North for a look and
let you see other Outbacks like yourself. I think
it was beganing to think it was a Truck.
Found a bunch of Subarus in a parking Lot in Clayton,Mo. Said hey! See there, this is what other 00 Outbacks look like. Let me tell you folks,raising this Outback is no easy job.
Now it's out in the garage telling old Sube about
all it's adventures on Highway 67 into Branson,Mo. from I-44. Old Sube has seen a lot of
this Country, so I don't think He's going to be impressed.
Subaru team...sorry to hear about that. Fix'em
up and keep going.
Later Ya'll
I hope the Outback gets it right.
Drew: I saw that report, but disagreed so strongly I didn't even feel like sharing the results.
They put the Explorer way, way below the Forester, probably because of a longer wheelbase. Guess what Monica Lewinsky rolled over in, though?
The Forester is in the same category as the Wrangler, gimme a break! Read up on the rollover topic under SUVs, and the same ones keep coming up: Explorer, Sportage, Blazer, and Wrangler.
I think they took height, wheelbase, and track into account, but this doesn't account for center of gravity, never mind suspension tuning or the ESP in the M-Class. The boxer engine sits at about knee level, versus waist or even chest level for some SUVs.
NHTSA will have numbers out this fall that supposedly account for center of gravity instead of just height. It still means little, since it's not a dynamic measure, though. I'll take a moose avoidance test any day over both of those static measures.
In a follow up article, Subaru even claimed the Impreza was less likely to roll over vs. their own Legacy.
I laughing, but not at the prarie dog thing. It's the Dave #274 that cracks me up. We probably do have about that many.
-juice
-Colin
As with any data-dervied formula, it predicts well only for samples that resemble the original data points. I wonder how many of those 33 "cars" had a boxer engine with a low center of gravity?
FWIW, I have yet to see/hear of a rollover involving an M-class from model year 1999 onwards. MY1999 is when ESP was added, so it seems like the system is doing its job pretty well.
Drew
Colin: how'd I know that would press your hot buttons?
There was one rollover in that topic of an early M-Class, but it was pulling a trailer and that was what caused the whole mess, so it isn't really relevant.
Anyone have a URL for the Swedish mag that does the Moose Test? Now that's more like it.
-juice
state that the OB is only capable of light-duty off-roading. That just does not wash with my experiences. Here in AZ the backroads fall into two categorys; roads and trails.
A trail is a narrow 2 track that pretty much promises scratched paint, banged undercarriages, and serious rock crawling no matter what vehicle you take down it. About 80% of the vehicles I see on trails are modified for off road performance.
A road may not be maintained but is generally passable in any higher clearance vehicle. It's steepest grades will not require low range. It may be very rough but there is no boulder hopping required.
I have taken my 2000 OB down more than a hundred mile of Forest Service and backroads. Every mile put a smile on my face. I'm confident that it can tackle roads as well as any SUV. I have "rally raced" it down flat gravel roads and poked up rocky desert mountain switchbacks. It's limits will be found only on the trails that promise scrathes and punishment even for modified SUV's. I'm happy keeping my 2000 Suby off the trails.
On top of it's capability there's the comfort. It is a comfortable ride on even the roughest roads. (And the CD player has never skipped!) Trucks and SUV's can't touch it in that measure.
Next time I have it out on the backroads I'll get some pictures so that you can see what I mean.
But that's bone-stock. Most, like you say, are heavily modified. We used the say the best Jeeps were not bought; they were built.
So, how 'bout some taller springs from ISR, a metal skid plate up front, a rear diffy protector, and some slightly bigger, more aggressive tires with fender flares to keep all the dirt they throw up under control?
I hope Subaru brings the dual range trannies over here, too. The ST-X had one, was that a hint?
I got a feeling I'm keeping my Forester forever. I still can't decide which direction I'm leaning towards (lifting it or slamming it), but it'll be my play toy a decade from now.
Allow me to dream for a minute...if I could afford a WRX wagon, then I could lift the 'ster and have the best of both worlds. Ain't life grand?
-juice
PS Anyone else see the Pikes Peak hill climb? Packed gravel - can you imagine any more fun than that?
I live just down the road from a facory outlet mall, and they did indeed have a Samsonite outlet store. I picked up a luggage carrier for $40, just like you said. I won't get to use it for another ten days, but I'm ready now.
-mike
The first A-class failed the moose test, but MB spent millions to change the design and fit to ESP to the vehicle. Current owners were offered the improved versions of the vehicle. Hmm, Suzuki and Isuzu could learn something from them. Check this out: <<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/aclacap.htm">http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/aclacap.htm>. BTW, the M-class passed the same moose test without incident, even without ESP. In fact, it did very well, especially for an SUV. Popular Science even pointed out that it was capable of much higher cornering speeds vs. other SUVs.
Drew
100 million pounds was spent on the redesign!
Skip
Drew
Drew: that was the case I was referring to. Brazilians love the A-class, it just doesn't do much for me style-wise. You'd be surprised at how much I read up on
Skip: so true. The ice racers I've seen are probably a lot of fun, but to my eyes they look a little silly. Besides, the RS is the model for that type of driving.
I hear you about the aggressive lifts. The Yahoo Forester club is full of those, some with 4" plus tires and even re-welded spring bases for another half inch. One of them removed the front and rear bumpers - it looks like a bizarre safari vehicle. Sure enough, they tranny can be tough to engage (or it pops out of gear), and they've come up with several McGyveresque solutions.
The modest 2" lifts are generally trouble-free, though.
-juice