Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

lucien2

I'm spending too much time on Bimmer boards! Still haven't found a car yet There's an '97 325is I know about that may come on the market in the new year with M3 springs, steering rack, 2 sets of rims, new paint, short shift, braided brakes, mintex pads, powerstop rotors, and koni adjstables for prolly around $5K IF it ends up getting sold. *sigh*

Then there is the SOOB side to the Bimmer clan....... 2002 owners!! Nice folks, friendly, remind me a lot of the people here. Met a bunch at a party that tried to talk me into the world of 2002...I dunno if I am ready to tackle one though. Still, one guy's wife has an Outback, another had a GL for part hauling, and yet another just bought an RS for foul weather/primary driver. They're all on modest incomes and go junkyard raiding every weekend for parts they can turn on Ebay to feed their 4-speed passions.

francophile

Among the Aztec's "faint praises" IMHO is the gray-up-to-the-doorhandles treatment, now seen even on such as Volvos and the new Ford Escape. Wassup with that? Am I the only one who finds that to be tacky looking? It looks like the car is metamorphozizing from metal into plastic from the bottom up.

bitman, it's a tough call. If there is a weld that hasn't been made up in there, and your vehicle's structural integrity is in question, then heck yeah! The headliner pull is worth it. If on the other hand it's some odd little groan associated with two parts rubbing together oddly, then the headliner pull isn't worth the effort. You have to listen, consider, and decide, I guess.

Good luck,
-wdb

originalbitman

Yeah, I agree if it's a weld. But I can get a similar sound just by putting a little pressure on the moonroof mechanism.... so I am thinking it might be that. How would I ever know it is a weld without pulling the headliner?

mike

francophile

I owned a 2002 once upon a time. Lifted its inside rear tire like a dog at a fire hydrant. That 325is sounds sweet but I'm always leery of highly modded cars; I figure the owner probably ran it hard.

Regards,
-wdb

lucien2

HA! that's a good one. Someone in the area has a tii that sounds SCHWEET, but a 2002tii may be more shadetree mechanic than I am ready for. The 325is has indeed been driven hard, but the car's history is well known and it has been meticulously maintained. There is a good one over on eBay, but I am not convinced that it is a good place to go car shopping.

p0926

wdb- The massive amounts of gray plastic cladding on many new cars looks ridiculous to me also. I think we're getting too old ("wassup" not withstanding). :-)

-Frank P.

paisan

Yep 2-tone and cladding are ugly, IMHO. That's why I got my Trooper in the LS trim (it's monotone)

I think about the only vehicle that looks good with cladding is the Vehicross, it goes with the whacky looks of the vehicle in general, but hey at least you know a person actually installed the cladding by hand on it!

-mike

ateixeira

bit: you should have looked for an L owner that wanted plood and just swapped. I know, they seem to be few and far between...

My headliner was removed for the moonroof. You do notice that fact, too. There are some dings in it, and the B-pillar on the driver side has a broken clip. I'm sure it's a 25 cent part, but a pain nonetheless. You may end up with more rattles than you started with.

Ask if they can apply lube to some parts without removing the headliner.

Loosh: when I read '97 I was going to find the guy and offer $6k! ) 2002s are very nice, but as guys in the club prove, not a primary driver.

wdb: plastic cladding is functional in that you get a ding proof surface, a la Saturn. If it's not painted, it's also scratch resistant. It looks better on some (Forester L, base Grand Cherokee) than it does on others (Echo, Aztec).

-juice

PS I've seen an RS lift it's inside rear tire too!

c_hunter

If it were me, I would wait until the groan became a real issue (or you had pinpointed the cause) before tearing into the headliner. You're likely to cause more problems that way. If it is due to rubbing, it may even go away after some time (as the parts wear in).

The way cars are spot welded and glued together with robots these days, I would be very skeptical of a manufacturing defect. That part of the manufacturinbg process has very good quality control.

Craig

rsholland

Re: My.Subaru.com? Will this work if you have work done at a non-Soob dealer? Or, does all the work/repairs have to be done by Subaru dealers?

If work is done by outside repair shops, can the Subaru owner manually update his/her files?

Bob

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/001204/nj_subaru_.html

amishra

All I can say is that while Subaru's may have AWD, they still slip around plenty on slush and snow.

A few months ago I read an article on an automotive site that showed that 2wd vehicles/w snow tires were better in typical winter conditions than 4wd vehicles/w radials. How true it is.

The stock Wilderness tires on the 2K OB might as well be summer tires for all I care, they are absolutely useless on slush and snow. I get much much better traction with my MX-6 and Yokohoma Guardex's.

Moral of the story: AWD in snow without the right tires won't help you combat winter.

2wd + snow tires > awd + radials

awd + snow tires? well that's a different story


-- ash

francophile

Patti, I have a small gripe with the service. In general I applaud it! But there is this one wee thing I'd like to see. A quote from the site's Privacy Policy:

Subaru of America, Inc keeps a database of the information collected by this site, on your behalf, to allow you future access to your information. Other uses of this information may include updating our customer records, fulfilling e-mail requests and sending you important information concerning your vehicle, as well as promotional material about Subaru products and services.

I'd really like to be able to say "no thanks" to the promotional material. I'm not saying I will, it depends largely on what and how much gets sent; but I feel very strongly that the option should be available to turn that stuff off.

Regards,
-wdb

ateixeira

ash: good point. Also, remember AWD does little under normal braking and cornering.

There are exceptions, though. On long down hills, if you use a lower gear to slow down, all four wheels are in play.

Also, with AWD in corners you're less likely to break traction when slowing down or speeding up.

-juice

originalbitman

I would like to wait to pull the headliner. Juice makes a good case for waiting. But this is 12k warranty issue and I am at 11,200 miles right now. My dealer says to pull and reinstall the headliner is a 6 hour job so that's $500 if I have to pay it after warranty.

It really is a minor thing that I can only hear at very low speed. So either I can drive faster (should be fun entering the driveway) or ignore it.

I think I might see if I can once again prove to the wife my OCD is real and get her to back in an out of the driveway a few dozen times with me in the back seat . I'll put a little pressure on the moonroof mechanism and the roof rail and see if I can make it stop. Even knowing what causes the groan will relieve some of the anxiety.

Maybe the front strut brace I ordered will stiffen things enough to stop the groan. Wouldn't that be nice?

bit

ateixeira

Remember the movie "The World According to Garp"? He parked that way. Though there was an unfortunate accident...

How 'bout spraying some lithium grease in the affected area? A few bucks a can and it does not harm rubber and plastic surfaces (which is why you should not use WD40 in certain areas).

Plus, with the little straw they provide, you can aim it throught the dome light opening (if you're willing to remove that).

-juice

bluesubie

Wouldn't that be covered under the B to B warranty? I had squeaks and rattles in my hatch repaired under warranty long after the 12,000 mi. warranty expired.
Dennis

paisan

I would think so too, the stuff that isn't covered is normal wear and tear items after 12K miles (alignments, brakes, wipers, bulbs, etc. etc.)

-mike

grahampeters

Perhaps a more practical solution to the warranty deadline is to contact Subaru now, explain that there is a noise which you hope will go away but get their agreement to it being a warranty claim if it does not develop. If you have agreement now and it continues, problem is no harder to sort than today. If it improves, problem solved without the hassle for either party.

It is however reasonable to agree a deadline for resolving the problem. Three or six months is usually a fair thing. Any dramas which develop after that time are really not the manufacturers problem.

Do get any such agreement noted a get a warranty reference number from Subaru to avoid any hassles later.

Cheers

Graham

bluesubie

What do you people think about aftermarket siping? It's supposed to make all-seasons a step closer to a snow tire. I had never heard about it but read this post on the vmag forum. http://forums.vmag.com/suvsubaru0200/messages/4267.html
Dennis

originalbitman

Did a little more investigating and can definitely duplicate the groan by putting a little pressure on the roof just behind the rear moonroof. Sound seems to come from an area where the inner roof sheet metal makes contact with the moonroof outer frame. Hard to really tell as it is a cave in there and the sound travels. Anyway, pulled out the trusty lithium spray can with tube (thanks juice) and lubed it up. Surprise! Seems to have made a difference... at least in the tone of the groan. So I will give a few days and a few twisty road miles and see what develops.

bit

babaoriley

Just took my 00 OB up the north coast of California and had a great time. Decided to try some off-roading on the Ft.Bragg/Shermann Road. It's about 30 miles of unpaved road over the coastal mountain range. It turned to 3 inch deep mud, very wet, rather quickly. My Outback was very game. Slipping and sliding uphills, but handling flat and downhills very well. As stated earlier, the stock tires suck for slippery surfaces, not enough tread depth or spacing. With power on, going uphill, my car tended to slip right or left depending on which way the trail tilted. Letting off the throttle and slowly braking kept me from sliding off the trail into the forest. But, for the most part, it forged through the muck well. After about 3 miles, my fiance started getting paranoid (muttering about getting help from "hill people" if we got stuck). So I reluctantly turned the car around and headed back to civilization.
Even though my OB wasn't as sure-footed as I would've like, I had a BLAST! But, I must get better tires, a come-along and good tow rope if I attempt something like that again.

lucien2

does the '00 OB have an LSD? If not, you got pretty lucky!

Snow- I really had no problems last winter in my OB; I am a little mystified by the griping. Baltimore was completely snowed under, and I spent 2 days straight ferrying family and co-workers around

ateixeira

Glad to hear that, bit.

Dennis: sounds iffy. Tires are designed a certain way, and modifying them like so will surely change their performance. You may get better snow traction, but lose dry traction and quietness, and maybe even tread wear.

Brett: I bet simply airing down to 20psi would have made a big difference. Just make sure you have a pump with you to air back up later!

The 2000s had the LSD optional, with the AWP. For 2001 it's standard though.

Loosh: maybe you're just a great pilot! Nah, it's the Soobie...

-juice

babaoriley

Loosh: I do have LSD on mine. That was the only reason I got the Cold Weather Pkg. at that time. Now I'm addicted to the seat warmers and side mirror defrosters.

Juice: You're absolutely right. I forgot to lower the tire pressure until I was in the middle of it. It did help tighten up the steering, but powering uphill would still cause me to go slideways.

One bummer: didn't get pictures taken, the car looked fantastic afterwards!

babaoriley

just understanding the limits better. My Outback was extremely well-behaved in the snow last year, even when I got cocky and went too fast for the conditions. For 15K miles, the car has performed almost flawlessly.

subaru_team

Hey, does our C. S. group (I hate repeating the number, but I do it for the ease of my friends here) (1-800SUBARU3) have a file on you?

If not, feel free to call us and start one. If you prefer not to, just keep the RO's from the dealer. That can document the concern in warranty (which may be why some folks get help beyond warranty - not for sure - but it makes sense based on how we operate). But. . .if you have a problem, it would be good to let us know now so we can check further. The groan you mention does not ring any bells with me. I think we'd like to check it out further.

subaru_team

Hey, I think we all have our limits. Yup, good tires help, but a Hummer will go where a Sube won't bet you might have some sacrifices with the ride (aren't I PC with saying "might"). Your choice and I have already admitted my bias. But, I haven't gotten stuck yet (18 years) and I love to put them through their paces (I love my OB Sedan but I miss my 5speed).

lucien2

I remember once in NM, in the middle of a freak snowstorm near Santa Fe, there was an old soob wagon stuck in a ditch. Like a 1977 or so, you know, with the cool white mag wheels? The girl was so upset that her 4WD soob was stuck. We couldn't get it out so I gave her a ride in my Ford Tempo (!) (she was a caregiver, and she had to get the child in her care home for meds). Problem was.....her tires were SO bald!! I tactfully told her her tires were dangerously bald and that is why she got stuck.

originalbitman

Okay, so I did the lithium grease thing and that got rid of the groan. But now I have clunk emanating from the same area. It's not at very slow pavement transitions like the groan but at any speed... most noticeable up to about 30mph. Tar strips, turns, acceleration and braking all make it happen. Muffled sort of clunk.

Obviously I hit the right spot with the lithium grease but it just changed the characteristics of the problem. More obvious now than before.

I did a trip to the coast on a twisty road to work in the grease but it didn't change. Going to give it a little time to work. Can't ask my wife for another ride in the back seat with my head out the moonroof or she will surely drop me off at the nut house.

bit

originalbitman

Thanks for the tip.

bit

paisan

Well more like Trooper v. Outback...

My cousin has a 2000 OB, and last summer we took her car and my trooper on a few trails near our houses in the adirondacks, although I could go over bigger rocks faster than she did (she had to crawl over the rocks to save the front air-dam) on one trail she was able to go much further because she could make a smaller radius u-turn than I could ever have done with my trooper.

photos @ http://www.iace.com/ia/trooper

-mike

c_hunter

Guys, shouldn't you keep the tires at full inflation for mud? I always remember the following guidelines from way back: narrow tires with deep tread for mud and snow, and wide balloons for sand. I can see airing down for sand (to widen the footprint and spread the load), but mud? Please fill me in.

Bit: sounds like patching a leaky canoe -- fix one leak and another pops up. But, I think you're hot on the trail, so keep obsessing.

Craig

subaru_team

Hi WDB! FYI - I received a response this morning (our e-business group is really on the ball). They appreciate the feedback and advised that the site does give you the opportunity to "opt out" of promotional e-mails.


I'll be back tonight!

francophile

Thanks for following up on that. I did notice the email options, by the way. I sent an email to privacy@subaru.com, and in it I congratulated them on their email decision. Only one problem - the email bounced! Could I send a copy to you for forwarding? Contact me via email and let me know; wbaseley@hotmail.com

Cheers,
-wdb

kate5000

Took my Forester to body shop yesterday. They said, 5 weeks to fix it. So I'll get it back in the new millenium. Arrgggh...

ateixeira

Brett: yeah, guess nobbier tires are better off road. Problem is, they roar on pavement.

Craig: my Jeep buddies would always air down for mud/dirt/gravel/sand, but not snow.

Patti: the Soob will also go places the Hummer won't. Huh? Yep, the Hummer is so wide it simply won't fit on many narrow trails.

Bit: I'm guessing the moonroof tracks are out of alignment. Time for a dealer visit.

Kate: don't sweat it. Let them take their time. We're talking about frame realignment. They'll also probably order parts more than once, as they go along and find out what is damaged.

Still sorry to hear about that. How's your daughter feeling?

-juice

cberezin

I've had the 2k GT wagon for a week now. This car handles better than just about anything else I've driven and the ride is really nice without ever being harsh. As for power, it suits me just fine (5-speed). Just a few questions for those in the know:

1) what type of highway fuel economy should I expect (55-65 mph). Real world as opposed to EPA.

2) Tweeter kit - worth it or not?

3) do you wax the painted plastic bumpers on the exterior?

Thanks

Chip

Juice- I'll try and get a picture to you. May take a few weeks because I have to do it the old fashioned way.

p0926

Kate- FIVE WEEKS?!?! Yikes! Why so long?Replacement parts for the 2001 model not in the supply pipeline yet? You probably don't want to hear it but if they're saying 5 weeks now....

Juice- Of course Kate's sweating it. How'd you like to be without Sandy for 5+ weeks? :-(
FYI: speaking from experience, with the proper equipment, frame realignments don't take any time at all.

Kate again (OT)- read in today's paper that 30% of national sales of homes for more than a million dollars are in the Bay area! Guess where I'm not moving!

-Frank P.

p0926

Chip- Congratulations on your new GT!

1. MPG varies significantly due to driving habits, gas formulation, time of year, altitude etc. On my Forester, I've found the EPA's figures to be pretty accurate.

2. Tweeter kit. Definitely worth it and is pretty simple to install yourself (order from Darlene when she gets back form being sick).

3. Yes, wax the bumpers also. They aren't subject to rust (obviously) but the paints the same as on the rest of the vehicle and it still needs protecting.

-Frank P.

originalbitman

Chip -

Yeah! Another GT wagon.

I have a 00 GT wagon with 5 speed and did an 8,500 mile road trip in Sept/Oct. Over the 7,600 miles that I kept track of mileage I averaged 28.3mpg. Mostly highway 55-80mph with a third or so using cruise. But it also included a lot of mountain passes, rural 2 lane and some urban driving.

Love my GT.


bit

originalbitman

Have it and I think it is worth it.

bit

ateixeira

Chip: mpg varies from 22 to 30 or so, but for highway average I'd expect 25-28.

Let me know about the tweeters, since I'm also mildly interested. The ones on my Miata seem to make a big difference. Too bad the CD skips.

Yes - wax all painted surfaces. Even wheels if they're painted (vs. polished).

-juice

tincup47

As someone who has dealt with body shops for years, parts are not the only cause for long delays. Most shops are small to medium businesses that may have 1 or 2 people qualified to do major repairs.

ateixeira

Since this is a "Meet the Members" topic, I'd like to announce our newest Crew Member. My Outback-driving cousin had a baby boy, Eric, who was just driven home from the hospital in, you guessed it, her '99 Outback.

Soon we'll know if three baby seats fit in back. It's their 3rd!

-juice

ateixeira

PS I tried and tried to convince her to name her son "Dave", but no luck!

originalbitman

Called SOA CS (thanks Patti) and yes the groan is a 36/36 warranty thing since it doesn't seem to be a wearable part.

Also did a little more sleuthing with the help of friend and pro sheet metal bumper. He listened then pointed to a spot inside the roof (through the open moonroof) were the inner and outer roof panels begin to converge. We wedged a little piece of foam rubber in there. No groan and no clunk. So I am still going to visit the dealer and tell them whats up and ask for their blessing just in case. But at the very least this saved pulling the headliner for now.

bit

paisan

Hey bit, I wonder if patti can arrange for you to get paid 1/2 the amount of labor cost it would have been to drop the headliner? hee hee, now THAT would be service!

-mike

c_hunter

Excellent work!! I'm glad to hear you figured it out; it gives hope to all us OCD types . . .

Maybe Patti can relay this to the factory -- sounds like they need an extra squirt of glue up there.

Craig

originalbitman

Thanks. We'll see if it sticks. At least I know where it is coming from. I can remember a few other post way back when of wagon owners with mysterious thuds or rattles in the right rear of their cars... I just wonder? This sounded like it was from the rear, even almost suspension like when it started clunking. It is amazing that the slightest little pressure or twist can make such an unusual sound. I suspect it is two flat sheet metal surfaces ever so slightly rubbing together. I could make it happen by just the slightest thumb push on the roof by the moonroof cut out.

I'll keep my OCD fingers crossed. I think my marriage survived this one though I am sure I am one step closer to being committed.

bit

francophile

1) 22-28. In my ever-so humble opinion the car will get better mileage if you keep the revs above 2500.

2) Yes! Consider the powered sub too. Both are a noticeable and valuable improvement in sound quality, more than sufficient for those of us with less than audiophile eardrums.

3) Yes.

Cheers,
-wdb