Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

hammersley

to the SUV-bashing... those of us with large enough families & need for that form of vehicle may benefit... demand goes down ----> prices go down----> *maybe* we can afford one!

Cheers!
Paul

rsholland

in addition to my two Subies, I too have an Explorer—not the greatest handling vehicle by a long shot. The reason we own it, because at the time of purchase, it did the things we needed better (IMO) than other products available at the time. I don't drive it with anywhere near the vigor I drive the Subies.

Having said that, I'm also aware, especially in light of the tire fiasco, of just how poorly this vehicle fairs when it does roll over. The "A" pillars seem to be made of tin foil. So, until I can replace this vehicle, I drive it with the same attitude I did when I was riding motorcycles: very defensively.

Bob

ateixeira

I think there were some suspension changes a little after '96 on the Jackaroo (I love that name), a wider track IIRC? CR acknowledged that in writing, but hasn't tested the newer ones.

reddeb1: sounds like a bad ECU, maybe?

Paul: speaking of silver lining, residual values on big SUVs (think Expedition) tanked with gas prices and all the recent bad press. So prices are already lower for used ones.

-juice

paisan

I looked it up, they changed the body pucks in '98 and dropped the body 1/2" onto the frame. I guess i shouldn't complain since I got mine for only $26,500 with the huge moonroof. This means that I may be able to get a Montero in a few years when the Trooper is no longer for sale, since 2002 will be the last year for the Trooper thanks to CU. Funny thing is that CU shows that the Trooper is one of the most reliable SUVs in it's class, I guess they can't fudge those #s

-mike

ateixeira

They are actually going to drop the Trooper? Or just the name?

-juice

tincup47

Killed the Trooper, not CU. Sales were never that high. CU might have caused a slight drop, but the fact there are at least 30 more SUV's that are more modern in design and carlike in ride is the main reason it is going away.

francophile

... since 2002 will be the last year for the Trooper thanks to CU.

Only a ten year run, prematurely axed because of a ten year old report. Right.

Eh, they're funny-looking trucks anyway ;-) Just kidding, I kind of like the Trooper's looks. Besides, I should watch what I say, because it could be worse - the Montero is *really* funny-looking!

-wdb

ateixeira

Sorry guys, I gotta side with my paisano on this one. Sales tanked when the CU article came out. And the case was only settled in 2000.

Although I don't agree that it's CU's fault - they are just reporting their findings and defending their right to do so.

Slower sales meant less money for R&D, so that affects future Troopers more than you'd think. Yes, the better-funded competition hurt too.

-juice

ateixeira

footnote: you could criticize CU's methods of testing. The test equipment itself likely affects the results. I remember they used to let go of the steering wheel at high speeds to test stability. Not so applicable to the real world, if you ask me.

lark6

In Ewing Township, bordering on Trenton and Lawrenceville. My PO was in Titusville, home of Janssen Pharmaceutica. If I absolutely HAD to move back to NJ, I'd try to go somewhere along the river from Titusville north into Hunterdon County - East/West Amwell or Delaware Twp.

Ed

PS: Drop me a line offline - I'm going to visit our ancestral homeland over the 4th.

dsackman

Come on Juice! Have you ever watched people driving these things? What about:
- Cell phones
- Dashboard cousine
- Kids in the back/front seat that needs attention
- Doing make-up / Shaving
- The ubiquitous coffee cup
- Reading a newspaper or a book
- Computer on the passenger seat
- etc.
I have observed all these actions personally. Letting go of the steering wheel is an every day event by a large number of people and is a very applicable test.

Where do you drive Juice?

Daniel

ateixeira

I stand corrected! Bring back those tests! :-)

Ed: PO = probation officer?

-juice

paisan

When you mention an Isuzu Trooper or Suzuki Samuri? They mention it rolls over.

The Trooper is actually quite a bit more advanced than you'd think, but I won't go into it here.

The replacement full size truck will be built on the yukon frame, and suspension, probably will tote an optional Duramax Diesel engine and have a whackier name than the Axiom.

My truck is at least $8-$10K cheaper than any other SUV in it's class, that alone makes it a great truck.

-mike

drew_

FWIW guys, about a year ago, a highly regarded auto magazine in Germany tested the Mitsubishi Montero. In their handling tests, one of which is similar to Consumer Reports emergency double lane change maneuver, they rolled the Montero. And now C.R is reporting the same thing...I think that there may be something to this. I don't recall if they tested the Trooper, but I'll see if I can find out.

IIRC, a 4X4 magazine that I read a while back was extremely impressed by the amount of articulation that the Montero's independent suspension provided and they praised it quite highly. I think that this may be part of the reason why it rolled; the suspension is great off-road, but it comes with a price.

Like many others here, personally I feel that the C.R tests are quite valid and do represent real world situations. I've had to do a double lane change avoidance maneuver (that is, a sudden swerve to the next lane, and then a swerve back again) to avoid a few huge blocks of ice that suddenly fell off the back of a truck traveling ahead of me. The ESP warning triangle definitely made a showing that day!


Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

ateixeira

Won't go into it here? Promise? ;-)

I think it has a good price/size ratio and TOD is pretty nifty.

Lessee, you got the VehiX, AXiom, seems like a lot of Xs and Vs in names lately. There's a Brazilian tribe called Xavante, pronouned "Sha-VAN-tee".

Nah, I like Jackaroo. They should use that, and rename the Axiom as the Jackaroo Sport.

-juice

paisan

They will continue to sell the Big Horn and Jackaroo outside the US, and it will be a true Isuzu derivative made in Japan. I think I'm moving to Australia!

-mike

ateixeira

What a Big Horn?

Drew - you're not talking about the guys that do the Moose avoidance test, are you? I think they were in Sweden, right?

-juice

drew_

No I'm not. This was a seperate test by a German magazine done about a year ago. In Sweden they also do something similar called a moose avoidance maneuver. You may recall rhat a few years ago, a couple Swedish journalists managed to roll a MB A-class during this test. MB immediately halted the sales of all of the A-classes, and provided alternate MB vehicles for existing A-class owners. They then retested the A-class, redesigned it and added ESP to it as standard equipment, and at no extra cost. All existing A-class cars were recalled and the owners were given the new versions. MB was extremely apologetic and embarrased by this and owners were also compensated in other ways in addition to getting the new cars.

FYI, I just read that the Montero tipped onto two wheels at about 37 mph. This is rougly the same speed that the Trooper and SLX tipped onto two wheels back in 1996. As a basis of comparison, the VSC-equipped Lexus RX300 ran the same emergency avoidance maneuver (albeit it with VSC stepping in and with a fair amount of body lean) at 50.5 mph...the same speed as the Audi AllRoad and the Volvo XC. The non-VSC equipped RX300 couldn't go through the cones that fast without skidding. The Acura MDX went through the maneuver at a maximum speed of 47.0mph. C.R. gave it a "fair" for emergency maneuvers because they found that its light rear end slid out quite early and easily. This would be consistent with what C&D and MotorWeek found.


Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

lark6

Although I did work w/probation officers in the Mercer Co. Prosecutor's Office for a while.

Ed

p0926

PO = probation officer? LOL!

Don't worry Ed, most folks translated it to be post office. My guess is Juice normally deals with a different class of people! :-)

-Frank P.

ateixeira

C'mon, I haven't been in trouble since college! ;-)

Drew - big and significant differences, then. I wonder how the Forester would fare - probably pretty well. Consumer Reports gave it the best score in accident avoidance among cute-utes.

-juice

lucien2

*sigh*

lucien2

Headline:

TAUZIN DECLARES WAR ON MITSUBISHI; DISCOUNTS REVIVAL OF ZERO-SEN

hammersley

I'm talking Suburban as a minimum! Excursion, perhaps! Expeditions are PUNY! MU HAH HAH HAH!

oops... sorry, gang... forgot my pill...

I'm late for my therapy...

Cheers!
Paul

koolerb

I thought this was the Subaru room.

paisan

I break into SUV topics every once in a while... Now onto my new vehicle... Anyone want to buy my '88 MX6? I'm buying an '85 300Z.

-mike

p0926

Don't know if y'all heard but there was a bad accident here in Atlanta last winter on a local interstate. A husband, wife and infant daughter were driving to the airport in their 98 Jeep Cherokee. They left early in order to beat the traffic so it was shortly after 6 AM when a Ford van a few cars in front of them lost a tire and hit the median. The Jeep and several other cars braked to avoid the debris and the husband was able to successfully stop in time. Unfortunately, further back, a young man in a Monte Carlo was not only speeding but also not paying attention. He skidded something like 70+ feet before nose-diving into the rear of the stopped Jeep at about 55-MPH. The impact caused the Jeep's gas tank to explode. The wife and daughter were trapped in the Jeep and died fairly quickly. Other drivers were able to get the husband out of the Jeep but he suffered burns over 70% of his body and died about a week latter in the hospital.

The driver of the van was cited for improperly maintaining his vehicle (or some such thing) and the driver of the Monte Carlo was cited for speeding and/or following to closely.

Now as tragic as this accident was, do any of you honestly think that DC & company are to blame? Well the relatives of the deceased family do cause they filed a lawsuit this week claiming design flaws in the Jeep. They claim that the gas tank wasn't sufficiently protected and that the doors jammed. So how exactly does an auto manufacturer design against the possibility of such a high-speed rear impact? Put the gas tank on the roof? Personally, I think it's just another ambulance-chaser type lawsuit with the plaintiffs going after DC with the hopes that a jury will give them a multi-million dollar sympathy award.

-sigh-

-Frank P.

paisan

It's cases like that that make me wonder if the legal system here is just plain messed up.

-mike

drew_

Out of curiosity and not to steer too far off-topic, where is the gas tank located in the Cherokee? The plastic, German military grade fuel tank is located ahead of the rear axle, just below and slightly rearwards of the 2nd row seats in the M-class. It's plastic so that it will most likely deform rather than split open or spark if there is an accident.

Mike, what happened to the MX6? Not auto-X worthy enough for you? ;-) How about another Subie?


Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

pattim3

Good Morning!

This isn't an "exact" definition:

Techncial Service Bulletins - Usually apply when there are a limited number of problems or, in some cases where repair advise is needed. One that comes to mind is "wheel bearings". A widespread defect wasn't found in the bearings,but a concern was found with the way they were being repaired.

Service Program/Campaign - Not a safety or emissions problem, but something that causes a high degree of dissatisfaction and we feel something needs to be done, even if if is way out of warranty (i.e., our current alternator program on high mileage '96, '97, an '98 Legacy models). These are expensive, but they are the "do the right thing" type of issue.

Recalls - always involve a widespread safety or emissions concern.

That's my take.

Patti

paisan

Well getting an outstanding deal on the 300z from a friend of a friend. The 300z is more of a sports car than the mx6 and has 30K less miles.

-mike

ateixeira

I don't know if any of us OCDers could own such a big SUV. Acres and tons of things that could go wrong...

Is that Z also a manual?

Bryce Resort was pretty cool. It's a ski/golf resort, though we did neither. The kids got a nice little pony ride, and we did a little hiking, plus got to visit a man-made lake up there. Funny thing is their favorite activity was bathing in the huge jacuzzi.

The roads were custom-made for Subies. I mean perfectly suited - all gravel, steep inclines, even a creek crossing. We had all 3 Soobs in the family with us, and went everywhere all the time without any doubt we'd be fine.

We got heavy rains both afternoons, and were still able to get around on the horse farm and the very steep (probably 30 degrees but it felt like more) climb up some of those roads. You could hear some FWD cars spinning their tires and tossing gravel around, while our Soobs quietly made it up without a fuss.

The road up to the Resort was sweet - twisty in a way you pray to find. Seriously nice zig-zagging for several miles coming in. Absolutely loved it, especially when you throw in the gorgeous view of the Blue Ridge mountains and the Shanendoah Valley.

During his visit, my brother used Sandy a lot, and when I asked him if he liked it, he said "Oh yeah, very nice!" Glad she took good care of him, but I'm even happier to have her back.

-juice

PS Our toddler got one of those rechargeable Jeeps for her b-day, but I think I'm going to use some Subaru stickers I have instead of the provided Jeep ones. he he

paisan

The Z is a 5-speed. No turbo, but only 52K miles, leather, t-tops, timing belt, tranny, and clutch have been replaced recently, and it's only been here from CA for about 2 years of which it wasn't driven. So if you guys in the NE know anyone interested in a good commuter car, the MX6 is up for sale.

-mike

ateixeira

Even if I needed one, a 3 to 1 Mazda to Subaru ratio would be a no-no. ;-)

Now I did manage to convince my wife that the space in the Montana was useful, so the 2005 SUW looks better and better. If a drop-top SVX shows up, I could have an exclusively Subaru fleet.

-juice

lucien2

Look, a lot of either have one right now or had one at some point (Although I don't think anyone here has gone beyond trooper size). The difference is we're all soob owners, and the demographic that goes along with that- we have a higher probability of really understanding the physics of vehicle dynamics. This means we aren't likely to be the ones tipping, rolling, folding, spindling, or mutilating the things.

As for Mike's lament about the Cherokee lawsuit..... this is our legal system folks. A lot of thought went into constructing it, and I daresay the theories and principles that underpin it are quite sound. Lawyers don't award million dollar product liability suits...juries do. Your neighbors and co-workers. The results that come out of the jury system are merely reflections of our society as a whole.

locke2c

Drew, you would be hard pressed not to find a gas tank in a modern car / truck that doesn't match the description you gave.

-Colin

paisan

Our society is going down the tubes... I think that there are just too many frivolus(sp) lawsuits flying around today. It is better than any other system so I guess that's a good thing. Usually the only winners in those type cases are the lawyers who get paid exhorbinently(sp) fees.

-mike

bluesubie

I think this discussion was recently in the Future Forum, but I decided to post this here.

I've been trying to find the old email from SoA that mentioned the VC being able to vary anywhere from 90/10-10/90. I couldn't find the actual email but I found the post I made on the vmag forum when I received the email in Nov. '97. edit: email was from Beth Sinclair based on info she received from the tech area. http://4x44u.vmag.com/forum/subaru/messages/712.html

Another interesting post of mine is my first low-rpm hesitation post from Feb. 98.
http://4x44u.vmag.com/forum/subaru/messages/3118.html
SoA finally came through with a TSB on that in Jan. 99. I never got it fixed because of a dealer that was probably unaware of the problem and another dealer that diagnosed it as a loose vacuum hose.

Overall, it's interesting to read one of the first Subaru Bulletin Boards (other than the early newsgroups). Including Kevin Thomas asking about Nitrous. I'm sure he didn't imagine at the time that his OBS would run a 13.03 1/4 mile 3 years later.

Dennis

hypov

"but she was the John Mergen of her time"...
Hmmm... Ms. B. Sinclair?

bluesubie

You're good! I actually just checked around some other posts on that board and edited it.

kate5000

Is such thing as a seller's remorse? I've sold my old Loyale. It gave me 9 years and 115K trouble-free miles, ran great, but I got tired paying a full insurance on it (while keeping my Forester in the garage). And with my luck, I did not dare to drop collision coverage from it.

I sold it through newspaper to a very sweet octagenarian couple. It was a b-day present to wife from husband, on her 80s birthday.

I got a good (=asking) price for it. New owners promised to take a good care of it. My Forester is very pleasant on a daily commute. Yet my driveway looks sooo empty w/o poor Loyale.

nygreg

I traded my 92 Camry with 180K miles. The car was unstoppable and was running as well as it did when it was new. Still wonder if I did the right thing. It was "our" first car purchased together and served the family for years and years, mile after mile. I have mixed feelings too. Love my OB, but feel like I betrayed my Camry.

Greg

francophile

I still miss the Peugeot I traded in for my Legacy GT. Good car.

-wdb

nvy

That had to be painful.

I'm not looking forward to the day when I sale/
trade my 89 GL 4x4 194k. I'm so proud of it.
Yet, Kate shows us how its done. Did you get
visitation rights? HaHa:)

Later

ateixeira

At least she's got a good new home. Look at it this way - better for her to be appreciated by someone else, than sit around not being used.

Having said that, we have 3 cars in our fleet and I love it. The spare comes in handy more often than I thought. Several times so far: when the Miata's antennae broke, then when the Miata got hit, then to fix Sandy's damage from that collision, then so my brother could borrow a car while he was here.

The insurance costs about another $500 per year, but we rented a minivan in Orlando and paid more than that for just one week!

-juice

PS Forgot - my dad also borrowed it while his Taurus was in the shop to get a new A/C compressor, and that's not the first time either

bobo39

Been mostly lurking here for a few weeks while trying to decide between a Forester S and a CR-V EX.

Signed the papers for the '02 Forester S with the option group that included the auto dimming mirror and compass yesterday and have already put 120 miles on her. The all weather package and more towing were the deciding factors for us in Minnesota. Just wish the outside temp guide went to -40... No, I don't want to know when it really does gets that cold. All in all...I love this car

Question #1 to the group is: in a month we are taking a long trip. How should we break it in over this period before the trip? We could conceivably put .5 to 1K on it (mixed city and country driving, very little freeway) by the time we leave? What should we get inspected/ done before we leave?

Question #2: The trip is a 4 1/2 week vacation to the Pacific Northwest - plan to put 4.5 to 6K on it for this trip. What service would be recommended while on this trip or immediately upon returning?

Any and all help is always greatly appreciated.
Bobo39

originalbitman

The manual says 1k is the break in period within which you should keep it under 4k RPM and vary the speed as much as possible. No harsh stops or hard launches if possible and try not and lug it. I would change the oil at 1k and again at 3k if it were mine. We did a 9k road trip last year in a brand new (1k) Legacy GT wagon. Best trip I ever took. You might want the windows tinted too...

Have fun.

bit

nygreg

Congratulations and welcome!! Check the manual. As for breaking it in - keep it under 4000 rpms and vary your speed. I also like to keep it at or below 55 mph. All of this is to be done for the first 1000 miles, so it sounds like you will technically have it broken in before your trip. Also, first couple hundred miles you should go easy on the brakes to break them in (or is it "brake" them in...hee hee, I kill myself sometimes) It might be good to get the oil changed just before you leave and then half way through your trip at a Sub dealership. Make sure they do not overfill the crank which seems to be a common mistake.

Good luck and enjoy our beautiful country,
Greg

nygreg

brain washed or what?

originalbitman

The manual says 1k is the break in period within which you should keep it under 4k RPM and vary the speed as much as possible. No harsh stops or hard launches if possible and try not and lug it. I would change the oil at 1k and again at 3k if it were mine. We did a 9k road trip last year in a brand new (1k) Legacy GT wagon. Best trip I ever took. You might want the windows tinted too...

Have fun.

bit