Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

p0926

"I just preferred the power and control of the 5-speed"

YES!!! Patti you're the epitome of a true Subaru enthusiast! (no offense Ross)

-Frank P.

miksmi

Patti, thanks for the review. It's a pleasure to read your prose.

mike, thanks for the heads up on RalliSpec. I met them at the 22B meet at MotorWeek in 99.. sharp and pleasant folk. Unfortunate.

..Mike

paisan

I keep trying to learn MT, but no one has one they'll let me learn on, and my mazda isn't registered. I guess I've been lucky since my entire driving career has allowed me to have nice torquey cars where the AT didn't get bogged down as much as on a 4-banger. As proof, I offer my last auto-x times, where with my AT XT6 I was able to beat the WRXs with MTs:)

-mike

armac13

I have always preferred MT over AT. I drove less than 3000 km with AT in 35+ years of driving and if knees and other joints allowed Rufus would have been MT. MT is simply more fun and, I feel, generally safer. 18 months ago I ruptured my achilles tendon. I live alone. Driving MT was, to say the least, "interesting". Given my druthers, I too would look down upon the lowly, uninformed AT driver. Alas, I no longer can. :~)

Ross

lark6

I saw that post on i-club. I visited them on a Saturday morning this spring and talked with Dave about designing and installing a 2.25" stainless catback for the Forester. My idea was to install it after the 30K service in the fall or when the 3/36K powertrain warranty expired. Dave was in the process of doing one for a guy on the West Coast (the only one they'll do, I guess) but took the time to give me the nickel tour of the shop.

I feel a little guilty in that I may have fallen into the category of "tire kickers" that helped lead to their withdrawal from the marketplace but I think I paled in comparison to the angry hordes of internet buyers.

Dave and crew are very knowledgeable and I only hope that their knowledge and expertise resurface somewhere in the Subaru aftermarket in the future.

Ed

p0926

Don't worry Ross, given your circumstances; I'd be driving an AT too. And although it may be true that I "look down upon the lowly, uninformed AT driver" on occasion, I do realize that the AT has definite advantages in some circumstances and is the logical and/or only choice for many drivers.

-Frank P.

kens

My Forester is with the dealer right now getting it's 60K mile service. I rented an OB Ltd. Sedan from them in the meantime. Nice, roomy, quiet and plush but it doesn't handle as well and it's an AT. One day and I already miss driving stick!

Ken

twrx

Just got the short throw lever for my WRX installed last week. There is a difference between the feel of it and the standard 5 speed lever in the WRX but not much. Why? I think a good reason is that the shifter in the WRX as is is awfully good to start off with. Good as a Honda. If that sounds like Subaru blasphemy you must understand I am a life long manual transmission driver (never have owned an auto in 32 years of driving) and I moved over from Hondas only 4 years ago when I bought a 98 Forester. Along the way I have owned some of the sportier ones including an Integra, a CRX and a Delsol. Fantastic shifters. Hate to say it but the shifter and clutch in the Forester weren't too much better than the Suzuki Sidekick that I traded in on it. (OK the only other Japanese car I have owned in addition to Honda and Subaru). The WRX is so much fun to drive that I even look forward tot he morning drive to work. If the shifter had not been fun then the whole effect of the turbo car would have been ruined. As is, unless you can't drive one, buy a 5 speed WRX. who whould have thought that the sporrties car of mine to date would be a station wagon?
TWRX

nygreg

get my wife to learn to drive a MT? My last MT was my 86 Mustang GT - lots of fun. I'm thinking when my kids get older and we can trade the minivan in, I can get back to the MT. Patience, patience.

Hey Patti, are you sure those two young men in the Honda were not checking you out and giving you the thumbs up? Hmmm, maybe I should consider a job at Subaru. I can be a Subineer.

Greg

subaru_team

Trust me - old folks like me do not get that level of attention - except - I did get road raged at yesterday for not running a red light. Seem's a man behind me in a Beemer thought I could have followed the car in front of me that ran the light. He got out of his car and really was screaming at me - the language was enough to make me bluster and that takes a lot. I actually got afraid. Luckily a fellow employee saw what was going on and we (both in WRX's) beat it out of there. The police were going to visit with him last night (I wrote down the tag).

Anyway - I learned to drive a stick by throwing my hubby out of the car and trying over and over again in a parking lot. After about 1/2 hour, I had it down. I "taught" my son the same way. Mike - we gotta get you a car to do this in!!

Patti

nygreg

Was bicycle riding near my house when the bicycle path crossed a road. A truck stopped to let us cross and the car behind him started leaning on the horn and actually drove around the trunk on the grass and across the path. I was with my daughters and needless to say I had some nice things to say to her. An OB going in the other direction stopped to let us go.

Greg

lark6

Greg: Your handle provides some clue into the source of the road rage.

I used to think that the Northeast Corridor/ "Megalopolis" was ground zero for the road rage phenomenon. Too many people trying to go and do too much in a very limited amount of space and time. Combine that with the false sense of entitlement that comes with a higher than average personal income and/or living beyond one's means vehicularly (see "what is this 'BMW thing'?" forum) leads to a whole bunch of arrogant, self-centered people behind the wheel.

Having traveled around the country in the last few years I see that's not the case. Impatient, road raging drivers are encountered in almost every big city and even in suburbia and nearly rural areas. Atlanta is a prime example; even though its highways and mass transit systems were not well planned it was still a much friendlier, if not pleasant, place to drive in the mid- to late-80's when I lived there.

I have to wonder if the phenomenon isn't a manifestation of our collective frustration with the pace and pressures of modern society. Seems like turbocharged engines aren't the only things in need of a blowoff valve.

Wow, can't believe I wrote that. Off the soapbox.

Ed

nygreg

not any worse than other areas. NYers can be a little more aggressive, but not necessarily more arrogant or "rage prone". Recently spent 3 hours in traffic at the Whitestone bridge at 1:00 AM and everyone waited their turn, no cutting, no horns, suprised the h___l out of me. I guess at that time there is no where you need to be (your point). Anyway, I hear Texas is possibly the most curteous state for driving. Should check it out some day. Related? I experienced the traffic in my OB.

Greg

lark6

Greg: I didn't mean to offend but I've found NY, NJ, CT, PA and MA the worst in the country when it comes to rude and raging drivers. Had a really bad incident above Albany toward the VT line years ago. TX is fine as is AZ and NM. California is no fun and Seattle, despite nasty traffic, is okay as well. I think taking a ferry as part of your daily commute can add a calming effect.

In rural areas you don't deal so much with road rage as you do with bored guys looking to have some fun at your expense. That and the unexpected appearance of slow-moving farm equipment around blind curves.

Ed

1subydown1togo

You haven't been down here in the Fort Lauderdale area...they are all crazy here!

paisan

I have to say they are the worst.

I've been cut off or otherwise irritated by Jersey Drivers in the following places:

1) Grand Rapids, MI (nearly the middle of nowhere)
2) East Jabib NC/Western VA border (can we say Deliverance?)
3) Fort Lauderdale, Fl
4) Way Upstate, NY

-mike

lark6

1subydown: I've had enough of Florida driving for my lifetime - Miami, Jax, the Keys, Tampa, Gainesville, Panama City - take it all away. I find that anywhere large numbers of retirees and NJ refugees congregate, you'll find bad driving and road rage. Florida is no longer alone in this regard as many of them have invaded coastal areas of the Carolinas and Georgia (in reverse fire ant fashion).

Ed

miksmi

Patti,

I learned to drive a stick by throwing my hubby out of the car and trying over and over again in a parking lot.

That's rich. Glad my then girlfriend, now wife (and 5MT GT owner!), didn't think of that, though that would have made it more, um, pleasant for her.

Greg,

I hear Texas is possibly the most courteous state for driving.

Not if you're a pedestrian. My wife was hit crossing the street in Dallas last year (thankfully nothing major, just a broken collar bone and the associated pain).

It's amazing that vehicular traffic doesn't respect those with less armament (motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians, children!). Sorry to hear about your experience.

..Mike

nygreg

Sorry your wife had to endure that. I've only driven through the northern part of Texas, so I can't really comment on the types of drivers. As for a MT, well. I can't wait to get back into a car with one. I enjoyed my test drive in a MT WRX a few months back. Oh, well.

Greg

texsubaru

Texans: As a native Texan, I'll partly come to my state's defense. I think that rural Texans, or Texans who've at least spent a good chunk of their lives driving across the state off the major highways, are probably more-than-average curteous drivers. That's because it's a big dang state, with a lot of driving required to get much of anywhere out in the country, and much of that driving, off the big highways, is on a lot of little two-lane state and county roads, so it takes a bit of patience and experience for drivers, farm equipment, livestock, etc., to coexist peacefully. You learn to cope with it all and play nice with others to get where you're going. But in the cities, Texas urban drivers probably aren't any different than anywhere else, plus, since the mid-1970s, a lot of the motorists moved here from elsewhere and may have brought bad driving habits with them. Finally, alas, it's true we don't have real healthy attitude toward pedestrians. Most folks in Texas, urban or rural, just don't walk much of anywhere, so you don't really learn to watch out for pedestrians. Plus, there's probably actually a bit of a subconscious bias that dates back to the 19th-century vaquero/cowboy/Comanche culture; to quote an old Texas horseman saying, "A man afoot is only half a man."

ROAD RAGE: Worst place I've ever driven was the Boston area; worst even than NYC. Motorists there seemed very aggressive, rather short-tempered and just plain impolite. I suspect the city's utterly baffling and overtaxed road system, combined with a lack of adequate parking, might just slowly drive Bostonians mad.

CORVAIRS: Never owned one myself, but was heavily exposed to them in my formative years. My dad owned two of them, back to back, so from when I was a toddler until I was in junior high, our primary family car was a Corvair. I always really liked the way they looked, but seem to recall the smell engine fumes in the back seat (where my parents, naturally, never had to ride themselves), being a problem.

amishra

you folks have to try driving in London, England. I've done it 4 times now, and I swear I get more grey hairs (I'm 27) each time I do it...

ash

bat1161

Patti: smart move in getting away from that jerk, and a good use of the WRX!

I have driven a livery cab in NYC, and driven in Boston, Detroit, and even in rural England, but the one place I won't drive is London. I think they are the craziest drivers around, although a friend says that Rome will really scare the pants off you. Road rage will happen any place there is major congestion, but especially in major metropolitan areas.

As for MT: if you really want to learn, and don't want to kill the clutch of whomever is teaching you, take a lesson from a driving school. That's what I did 13 years ago when I got my first car (76 Toyota Corolla for $75). This way you kill their clutch:) MT all the way!

Mark

paisan

Oh I know how to drive stick, just not the finer points.

-mike

p0926

Texsubaru- I think your summation of Texas drivers was excellent. It's been a number of years now but I can still remember being amazed by how courteous rural Texas drivers were as they pulled over onto the shoulder to let faster traffic pass. Of course while that is possible in Texas, in most other states the secondary roads don't have those accommodatingly wide shoulders.

Patti- Yikes! I can't believe that he actually got out of his car. I know I'm always amazed here in Atlanta when I go thru a "pink" light thinking that I really should have stopped only to look in the rear view mirror to see 2 to 3 more cars right behind me!

Speaking of running red lights... what does everyone think of the debate regarding mounting cameras at intersections to catch violators? I remember them in Germany and they were very effective (they certainly made me think twice).

-Frank P.

armac13

I know what you mean about the "pink light " phenomenon. That situation is very common here in Vancouver where we do have some of the intersection cameras. Their use is somewhat of a controversy. I have no hard information, but observationally, I haven't noticed any real improvement since their introduction.

Ross

bluesubie

It's funny how people that have been to the same destinations have different perceptions.

I've been to Boston three times and found it was much more laid back driving than NYC. Sorry paisan, but NJ doesn't even come close to NY for wacky drivers :-p.

After making two trips to SC this year, I feel that NY/NJ is mellow compared to MD. I've never seen so many unsafe lane changers in one place. Most of the drivers didn't signal either.

Dennis

bat1161

NY has had the cameras for a few years now. I have mixed feelings about them. On the one hand, they certainly do reduce the number of people running lights. The problem I see is that people who are about to go through a red light, slam on the brakes, making it dangerous.

Mark

paisan

Even people from NJ that I know, hate NJ Drivers. Almost all the people i personally know from NJ say "And these people wonder why we pay so much for insurance? Look at how they drive!"

-mike

bluesubie

has the highest insurance as a state. But NYC insurance is higher. ;-)
I think NJ has bad drivers because of all of the NY'ers that have moved here. :-D

Dennis

miksmi

Tex,

Hope you didn't take any offense. No one looks out for pedestrians (or children, until you procreate). I think Ed hit the nail on the head -- crowded conditions create stress (road and all the other rages).

Ed> Seems like turbocharged engines aren't the only things in need of a blowoff valve.

hehe

Frank: I was in Weisbaden for two weeks of active duty in the mid-80s and remember the cameras. In many US municipalities (including MD, DC &VA), a private contractor evaluates photos and issues tickets for a percentage (50%) of revenue (installation is "free") so there is incentive to err on enforcement. Since it's a revenue generator (nothing wrong with that) and implementation doesn't require new taxes, I think municipalities should buy and administer the cameras. I bet they could even (gasp) replace the cameras with officers in the flesh and still come out ahead (I heard $30 million fines in 18 months.. a lot of officers).

The land of the free gets its undergarments in a twist over some odd things.

Graham/Gus, what's the story down under?

..Mike

paisan

I think NJ has a much higher collision insurance rate, but NYC's theft rate is higher than NJ. Which portion are we speaking of? I'm talking about collision, theft isn't relevant to being a poor driver

-mike

locke2c

Hey Ash, I'm coming to London on business in a week and a half assuming my passport gets expedited successfully. I'll be in for just a week, might be heading on to the Netherlands afterwards.
____

Red light cameras are revenue machines first, and safety devices much later. I'm unconvinced that they make a positive impact on safety as well.

-Colin

1subydown1togo

Having lived in Italy, I can certainly agree with Mark regarding drivers in Rome...the first time I was there and on my way back to the states, I took a taxi from my friend's place to the airport. The driver was completely nuts, coming within inches of cars at 90 kmh at least 8 times in a frenzied drive to get to the airport. I thought for sure I was going to die on the way there! Living in Bologna, I didn't find as much craziness there; maybe in the north, they are much calmer...must be the wonderful food up there. I drove in Paris once and was trying to exit from the circle around the Arc de Triumph..I ended up circling 4 times before I was able to exit; the cars coming into the circle just wouldn't let me out.

evilizard

Having been to Taiwan and many places in China I can attest that it is MUCH worse than the worst here the the US. Things like lanes, one way streets, sidewalks and such have no meaning, they are just obstacles to overcome. Its truley insane. I hear from a co-worker that Korea is just as bad but they get out the tire irons when there is a wreck (and not to fix their cars).

Texsubaru's Texas analysis is pretty good. I think another factor in Texas temperment is the heat. Anyone who has worked outdoors in the summer understands that you just have to slow down and take your time. Of course in the big cities we have lots of people who have recently moved to the state who just don't get it (many of these people have never lived or worked outside of air-con either).

Texas country roads are not for the impatient driver. I can't count the number of times I've been stuck behind a Tractor/Cattle truck/Horse Trailer.

rsholland

American drivers are very lucky, when it comes to driving safety. Every time I've been out of the country, I've always felt that the "local" drivers are absolutely nuts.

Bob

p0926

Korean drivers only follow one traffic rule: Yield to tonnage (I.e. the larger vehicle has the right-of-way regardless). They treat a red light as merely a warning to look both ways before proceeding thru an intersection.

I read in the news yesterady that a CA judge had thrown out 800 red light camera tickets because the cameras were run by a private contractor. I certainly disagree with the for-profit approach although the contractor has now offered to provide the service at a flat rate.

-Frank P.

rsholland

I remember driving down some 2-lane road (with a dashed line down the middle) in the England once; when, to my surprise, some on-coming driver pulls out and decides to pass the guy in front of him—right in front of me! This joker split the lane, driving right down the dashed line, and could care less about on-coming traffic (me!).

Bob

kate5000

talk about crazy traffic! BTW, in Mexico City you can legally buy driver license w/o taking any exam. It's just more expensive than one with the exam. I think anyone who made it on its own to the DMV office in MC should be awarded a license on the spot.

bluesubie

paisan - I think it's overall. I did a quick search on Google and found this:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nyp-coming_to_ny.htm
NJ had been the highest but it looks like NY is catching up and passing. My rates are resonable. $2,212 annually for a 97OBS, wifes 99OB and a 17 y.o. female to drive both. That's cheaper than my 35 y.o. female friend in Queens and hers is only for an 01 Legacy GT.


Oh yeah, I forgot about Korea. I was there in '86. I remember standing on a pedestrian overpass watching the traffic chaos.


Dennis

bat1161

I've always said NYC has a higher rate than NJ for insurance. I'm paying $1600 for complete coverage on my 00 OB, and I'm the only driver, with every type of discount I could find. My co-workers always say Jersey is more, but I have the higher premium. Go figure.
Mark

jfl

In CA, the camera tix are over $100. Having been in an accident because the other driver ran the light, I appreciate anything that will get drivers to obey the lights.

paisan

I'm never concerned about the $ of the ticket. It's the points that really hits your pocketbook. Heck it would cost me well over $100 to go fight a ticket, no reason to fight it for $50-$200.

-mike

p0926

Hey Mike, who's your insurance company again? I know that we all like to keep our rates as low as possible but not being completely honest with the insurance company drives up the rates for everybody else. ;-(

-Frank P.

brekke

I remember reading an article in the NYTimes that said that NY insurance rates are catching up/passing NJ rates because of the ease of pulling off insurance fraud in NY, what with the no-fault and what not. I could swear they mentioned organized crime being involved. The insurance companies went crying to Albany because they want to raise the rates in NY because of this.

I believe that NJ had instituted some changes to try to reduce fraud, unlike NY.

bluesubie

Caroline, that's pretty much what it says in the link I posted above from the NY Post. No mention of "friends of ours" though.

Dennis

paisan

Yep in NYC now the big thing is to have a fender bender, then have the person go to a doctor out in brighton beach (russian mob place) and then claim all kinds of $ from the insurance companies.

-mike

brekke

Sorry, Dennis, I hadn't read the article. Now that I have, I'm steamed! GRR!

ffsteve

I am strongly in favor of red light cameras. I live in San Diego where they have deactivated the 11 cameras because "they were run by a for profit company" that was paid by the city for every fine. 300 pending citations were canceled.

There was a lot of strident discussion on each side, but many appeared to think that they would get nabbed if they were in the intersection when the light turned red, when actually the system triggers a violation if the vehicle ENTERS the intersection after the light change. Of course, there was also the charge that the timing of the yellow light was decreased on intersections with the cameras installed, supposedly to lull drivers into trying to beat the light.

Have noticed that, since the cameras were deactivated, running of red lights is more prevalent than ever before. I NEVER jump the green anymore, but always wait a tick before moving into the intersection.

And I stop on yellow too, although no one behind has yet gotten out of their car to complain! That would really blow. My feelings are with anyone who has had to experience that kind of idiocy.

Steve

paisan

Also here in NYC and the east coast in general, our light don't simultaneously change from yellow on one side and red on the other to Red/green, there is a 1 or 2 seconds of Red/Red in both directions.

-mike

paisan

How do red light cameras deal with right turn on red? Here in NYC we don't have that issue since right on red is illegal.

-mike