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Subaru Crew - Modifications II

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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I personally have used and liked Pirelli P7000 Supersports, but all the posts I've seen lately on people comparing them to the new Dunlop SP 5000 make it sound like the Dunlop is quite a bit better tire.

    -Colin
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    north_twinnorth_twin Member Posts: 7
    All you R.S. junkies out there will find this site extremely interesting even if your not in the market for a tricked out car. AWESOME! http://home.europa.com/~trevor/impreza/

    Chris
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    north_twinnorth_twin Member Posts: 7
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    sorry to bug you, but you ARE the resident performance guru, it would seem. At least you're better at math, anyway.... :)

    IF you owned an Outback AND you were going to upgrade the wheel/tire package, would you

    a) get 16" rims with 215/60/16 tires (stock is 205/70/15), and would this require a 16x7 rim

    OR

    b) get 17" rims with 225/50/17 tires, and risk the rice look and fender rub?

    Just curious.......
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd personally go for the 16" rather than the 17" + possible Rub.

    -mike
    Isuzu Forum Spokesman
    Edmunds Isuzu Forum
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Yes, I am not interested in the car looking remotely ricey.

    Will 1998 RS gold rims bolt right on to the OB? or will I have offset issues? hmmm.....

    I have been thinking a lot about this BMW hunt, and I think I've decided to chuck it. Kirsten will need a new car in a year or so and wants to pick her own, not inherit the Soob. She REALLY wants a Mini, and I don't think I can get around it (sorry, Patti!). The Soob is too critical a part of daily life around here, so it must stay. That would leave me with a dedicated track car. Now, I don't think we can afford to keep three cars, and will I really have the time and money to be SO into going to the track as to justify a car soley for that purpose? Of course not.

    I know the OB is the wrong car for the track. I am tempted to trade it in for a new Impreza of some sort, but I honestly like this car a lot and it is the perfect size for us and our crapola. Plus, trading in now would be economically stupid; it is only a year and a half old. Besides, I do think, even in OB guise, that the Legacy platform is well sorted. I think I am going to take the $2500 or so I was going to spend on some 14 year old rust bucket and put it into the Soob (which I can do over time, instead of stroking one big check, BTW). It will be decent on tarmac, and I will stil learn a lot from it.

    first priority: Brakes. I had lots of fade out there. I need to figure out a way to keep them cooler, and maybe bigger, which wil probably require...

    Wheels and tires. Plus little things like better swaybar mounts.

    then there is the power issue. I think lastly I'll open up the intake and the exhaust, although I still have doubts about the wisdom of this, particularly with regard to my warranty.
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    ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    I know this shouln't be in this topic but I hang out here all the time.... anyways I shall post it at the event section as well.

    OK on the 23rd, the Toronto Subaru Club organized a winter driving school at the Mosport racing track. It was very well organsied.
    there were at least 30 Impreza among a few odd 2WD an a Forester (Subaru of Canada rep).
    THe condition was fabulous couldn't ask fro any better. THe track was covered with snow. We were divided to various classes depending on driving experiences ranging from Beginners, Novice, Intermediate and Expert. I was in novice due to my err.... limited Solo II experience. ANyways I doubt it matter.
    IT was well organised. Alot of Rally Masters showed up as instuctors including the 4 times Canadian Rally Champion and this year's champion Tom and Trish McGeer. ANd yes, they towed along their 375hp, 400lb/ft WRX! That thing is incredible! I parked next to it. Pictures will come later.
    It was a full day event. The morning was good as the track was still snowy. Then as the day wore on, the turns began to ice up abit. I spun out only once! Remarkable!!! =) I think all of us spun out at least once. hahahaha
    By the end of the day, we were pretty much flying down the track even though it as icy. However I a lone civic equipped winter tires (btw, due to conditions winter tire is a MUST!) got stuck quite a bit. It was also quite disheartening to see the poor FWD car spinning her front wheels trying to get up an icy incline of the track. But not a problem for us AWDers. ;-)
    The SOC rep also went out with his Forester. He was actually pretty good. Also he brought along some Subaru paraphenelia. No,there's no new WRX there.
    And then the time all of us has ben waited. Tom McGeer took out his rally WRX which itself is technically more powerful than Burn'scar! It was just phenomenal! We were in awe. So much power and control.
    The Clubbers were very mature bunch of folks even though alot of us were young ppl.No show offs. Just pure camaraderie.
    Anyhow, for $100CDN, it was a steal for the track time, learning experience from the instructors (they sat in yoru car and help you out during the sessions). I think it total we averaged about 30 over laps.
    I hope we will have another one next year. But I doubt the cost would be that cheap ever.
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    amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    OB wheels and tires: if anything I would be sticking with the stock 16" and putting better tires on it. There's very little clearance to begin with, which is pretty evident when it starts to snow - the slush piles up pretty quick, and there is constant rubbing on the tires on turns. Same thing happens in the mud. I think 17" rims + tires would barely fit.

    I suspect the reason the 16" rims & tires have so little clearance is that the Legacy has 15" rims. Those seem to belong on the car better.

    Why would you replace the Subaru 16" rims anyway? I really like the way they look on the base model OB.

    I hear ya Lucien, about trading in an OB for a Impreza. I'm still debating it myself, because I'm really enjoying the Outback this winter up here. It is a fine car, with great handling, and decent speed, especially with a stick. I doubt the Impreza will be nearly as plush as the Outback either. Either way, no point thinking about it until we see the new ones!

    -- ash
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well the problem with the OB isn't the rims, I bleive it is the high side walls. If you went to 17" tires with a lower profile, you wouldn't have the rubbing problem. You could probably go to 17" and have even more clearance. Although the stock OB rims are decent IMHO.

    -mike
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...the 1999 OB runs 15" stock. That is the prob; if I had 16', I wouldn't be fretting it. I want to go to 16", with 215/60/16. I want to know if '98 RS rims (16x7) will bolt on or not.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    To my knowledge all of the subaru rims (5-bolt) are interchangeble from about '88->'01 I know I have Juice's '98 Forester rims on my '88 XT6 w/o a problem.

    -mike
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    kewl. Mebbe some Gold RS rims, a little sanding, and metallic silver paint will do the job.

    Now how exactly does the OB suspension differ from a regular Legacy? That it, how is the raised ride height achieved? I guess it is soley a spring issue, as aftermarket parts that lower a Legacy an inch have a more dramatic effect on the OB. O Well. Rims and tires it is, then.

    And before he gets there...

    ...those 16' rims will give me the clearance I need for the 22" swaybar, right Juice!? ;-)
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think it is partially because of the higher profile tires, and only slightly effected by a raised suspension. I'm not positive on that, but pretty sure.

    -mike
    http://www.iace.com/ia/trooper
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    ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Hi since, I am here all the time and I've told some of you that I am going to a rally school. So here's the pictures. I've posted it in the events page too. Juice, you can take these pictures and add them to your album if you want. ;)

    http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1262216&a=10681225
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    amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    is the white OB Sport yours Ramon? sharp looking. Couldn't help but notice all the Blue RSes though. Sure is a sea of those.
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    ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    i guess the snow must've made my silver OBS turned white. :D
    Yeah there's alot of RS that turned out. A few OBS showed up. They were in the beginners class however and I think they gave up since they came with stock tires. The race track was so full of snow and ice that winter tires are a must! A Forester got stuck too. It belongs to a Subaru of Canada rep who was really kewl.
    Of course all the 2WDs even with winter tires got stuck more than twice! A civic got stuck twice in one lap. hahahahah....
    It was truly fun though.
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    about what to do with my Outback. I got a pretty well thought out response:

    Hi Lucien,

    Thanks for your e-mail.
    It seems that you are wanting your Outback to handle better. We can do replacement coils that will not lower the car, these with better
    shocks will make the car handle better. Replacing the coils without better shocks will make the car handle worse.

    Best thing we can suggest is:
    Front AND Rear swaybars BSF19 (20mm) or BSF19X (22mm)
    Anti-lift kit (KCA319)
    Front and rear heavy duty swaybar links (KLC20A AND KLC19 respectively)

    Each of these will improve the handling of your car.
    Once all these are done and you still need more out of your car, then look at coils and shocks. And of course we are assuming that you have good tyres.
    Last thing would be to change the wheels and tyre profile.

    trust that this helps.
    Regards
    Bob

    So I guess I'm going to leave the wheels alone for now, although I'll need tires soon. Regrettably, there are few options available for the car, since 70 series is getting rare. May have to go with a 215/65/15 and live with the bum speedo. I know SoA wouldn't endorse this, but the OEM tire has been discontinued already, and most of the other 70 series tires are actually low grip whitewall things for your father's Oldsmobile.
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    intrigue2intrigue2 Member Posts: 46
    i'm thinking of replacing the bridgestone re92's on my 2000 gt limited sedan with michelin pilot xgt h4's. has anyone had experinece with michelins,or any replacement tire for that matter. the bridgestones have 20,000 miles on them, but they don't feel as sur-footed as when they were new. i'd appreciate your feedback.
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Uh, did you have to post that in *every* Subaru forum? I replied in whatever one my subscription finds first.

    -Colin
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Hi Lucien I cannot understand the rarity of 70 series tires in the states there does not seem to be the same problem here in Canada. Almost all manufacturers have a tire in that size, however a 65 series tire is only a little smaller and should not make very much difference. If you are changing tires an excellent all around tire is the Michelin MXV4 i have a set on my 1993 accord wagon. They have great wet weather grip.smooth and quiet on the highway, and they are not too shabby in snow either as anyone who lives in Ottawa can attest we get ample opportunity to try tires in the most demanding conditions. alternatively you could go to a 16 inch tire and wheel size this is known as plus one sizing, this way you open up a world of selection as far as tires are concerned.
    Good luck in your quest Pat.
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I've just installed some new rear speakers in my 98 Forester. Crutchfield had a buy one get another for 1/2 off on Polk speakers so I went in on a set of EX501a 5" coaxials with a buddy. The total cost was $65/pair including shipping.

    Installation was a breeze. Pop open speaker grille, unscrew OEM speaker (which, by the way is a cheap excuse for a speaker and I have the Premium Sound System too), unplug the speaker, plug in new speaker and reverse process.

    The OEM speakers use whizzer cones and aren't real two way speakers. The result is very muddy sounding highs. The EX501a comes with a dedicated tweeter so it's a lot clearer and crisper.

    Ken
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The E-codes on my Miata turned out great. I'd venture to say they're now better than the Forester's lights. Both have the same Hella H4+30 Xenon bulbs, but the E-codes' pattern wins. The old Miata's lights were pitiful.

    ramon: awesome fun! If you didn't spin you weren't pushing hard enough! :-)

    Loosh: some wheels with big openings and/or fan blades can help keep the brakes cooler. You could also make a home-made duct for cooling.

    I'd go Plus One but not Plus Two. Too much added unsprung weight. Your stock 15" rims are already alloy, so 17" rims would add a LOT of weight.

    One more thing - smaller diameter tires will yield better gearing, so the 215/65R15s may not be a bad idea. Maybe even 225/60R15s.

    -juice
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    HI as any body who reads these posts knows I am now shopping for a used 1999 outback ltd I hope to own one in the next little while, however my question today is directed at anyone who has experience with the sound quality of subarus amplifier woofer combo I have a chance to pick one up at a very reasonable price and I wonder if this will be a worthwhile purchase, the first things I intend to swap out are the factory excuses for speakers as it has been my experience with every car I have owned the factory speakers are the cheapest junk to be found.
    Cheers Pat.
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Good job, Ken! I have a closet full of car audio gear that's never been installed in my Impreza because I became a weight-conscious autocross freak.

    Still, door speakers don't weigh anything of consequence, and yet I continue to suffer through those cheaper paper cones.

    -Colin
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    amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    the factory speakers in the 2K obs are still cheap paper cone junk, so I can't see them being any better in the 99s. Lucien should be able to tell you more though - he's got a '99 OB.

    As for the subwoofer, unless its a steal or you need to save space, you can always nearly get better boom for buck aftermarket.
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Yea, the stock system isn't great. I upgraded to a Blaupunkt head, with JBL and Blaupunkt speakers. The improvement over stock was, um, noticeable (although now my passenger side speaker sounds as if it is blown. Too much Ill Communication and OK Computer). I haven't heard the Subaru kit, so I dunno.
    I am considering a plus one upgrade but don't want to spend the money on wheels. $600 for a set of 16" RS wheels, a bit less for GT wheels. I may wait for people to start crashing 2000+ Outbacks and pick up a set of those 16" rims at some point. Dunno. Cash is scarce right now. Which brings me to...

    ...Juice! WAAZZUPPP?!? Sorry, I know it is SO played, but I never get tired of it... I ain't too sure 225/60/15 will fit on a 15x6.5 rim, or will it look tres dorky? I suspect the plus zero will be the way for me. Sometimes I REALLY want to spend some cash on the car, other times I feel like it ain't worth it, since I won't ever have time to be an auto-x type, and who would take an OB to the auto-x anyway? conflicted, that would be me. Time to start playing Lotto again, I spose.....
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Lucien $600 for rs wheels? Subaru dealer here quoted a friend of mine $500 PER RIM FOR rS WHEELS if you can buy them in the states for $6oo a set jump on them.
    Cheers Pat.
    ps do you have the 99 outback or the outback ltd I believe the head unit in the ltd is actually pretty decent it is a combo cassette and cd head unit, actually the most bang for the buck is to install a set of decent speakers. I have found good speakers can make even the most pathetic head unit sound pretty decent.
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    It's all relative, I suppose. Used RS rims are $600 a set. Cheaper than new? Sure. Do I have $600 for rims? Not really. Not yet, anyway. Wouldn't be such a big deal, but the dog just got ANOTHER knee operation, which set us back a cool 1K. This 2 months after her 1st one, which was 1.5K. So no rims for me.

    I don't have a limited, just a plain jane OB. AWD, 5-speed, 2.5 DOHC, $20,000, no waiting. ;')
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Pat, if you meant that your dealer was asking CDN$500 for each rim, that is about the same as the US full retail. Used they go for the ~$150 each like Lucien said.

    I have a line on a well-used but straight set of '98 RS rims, maybe $300. The paint is chipped pretty bad in places, but I figure I'll bead blast 'em and smooth the chunked outer flange some (careless tire mounting monkey) and they will be fine for race tires.

    -Colin
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Hi Colin I can buy aftermarket rims made by konig, asa,einki.adp, and other well knowm aftermarket rims for around $200 Cdn.each.

    I would never consider buying factory rims as accessorys the cost is always out in left field. As for the used rims you have a line on I don;t know about your area but up here you could have those rims stripped, repaired, and either machine finished or polished for around $100 Cdn. per rim that would be a hell of a deal brand new factory rims polished for around $500US. total.
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    seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    intrigue: I replaced a set of bridgestone's on my 96 legacy sedan with yokohama avid t4's. the yoko's are really sticky and I can feel the difference. on corners where I could feel the awd kick in before, I don't feel it now.(I did sacrifice tire longevity for grip). personally I would wait until the spring to get some tires for performance. unless you live in and area where where you rarely get snow.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It costs a lot of $ to get better alloys than the stock subaru rims, from what i've heard the stock subie rims are outstanding quality and there are tons of other options to explore with your $500-$600. Just my opinion. Then again I bought Juice's rims to put auto-x tires on! :)

    -mike
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Subaru has an unorthodox bolt pattern, so there aren't going to be tons of choices from Einkei, etc. And the offsets are unusual too.
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Hi Lucien Subaru bolt pattern is 5x100mm with a 40mm offset this is actually quite common, used by GM. for the sunfire and cavalier as well as alot of other models in that line, VW> also uses this bolt pattern as does Chrysler on the neon and sebring, there is a site www.acealloywheel.com that you can go into and find the bolt pattern and offset for just about any modern car made.
    Cheers Pat.
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    crashton6crashton6 Member Posts: 245
    I was about to go aftermarket for rims but desided just for yuks to check with Subaru. I got 2000 OBS rims for $85.00 ea. I don't think I could've found ones in the aftermarket that cheap & they came with the correct offset. They are stampted on the inside Enkie made in USA. Got them at WWW.libertysubaru.com. You may want to try them out for your rims.

    Chuck
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    5x100mm is fairly common but no one uses as much positive offset (backspacing) as subaru. Use GM and VW wheels at your own discretion!

    -Colin
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Good link; I was wrong about the bolt pattern, thanks. All in all though, this is an Ouback we're talking about, and I think, IMHO, that most of the designs from the companies you mentioned are going to look a little rice-a-roni on this car. That is another reason I am looking into OEM wheels from another model.

    Colin:

    Do I have anything to gain by using a Stromung muffler (sans snorkus), or is the only gain to be had from opening up the intake and the exhaust cat-back? Rallispec's cat-back is nice, but awfully loud for an OB daily driver. Their intake is REAL nice, but pricey. I wonder if an intake and a muffler will give me anything, or whether I need to do the pipe also. Or just forget all of it and keep thinking about wheels instead. Can't afford both.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Remember, guys, I paid $75 per rim for 16"x7". That's $300 for a full set, brand new, and they fit beautifully.

    Chuck got a good deal, but those are 15" and he still paid more.

    I missed an even better deal, though. There was a set of 16"x7.5" for the same $75 I paid, but I hesitated. Talk about some nice, wide rims!

    Shop around. FWIW, if you're wondering about quality and weight, my 16"x7" alloys with bigger tires weighed the same as my 15"x6" steel wheels (both about 44 lbs or so with tires). They are still in perfect condition, not a ding to be found.

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    PS The Forester S rims are 16"x6.5", but I think the RS has 16"x7" wide rims. The 2000 Outback's are also 7" wide, but I'm not sure about the GT.
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Juice, no offense but the acceptable fender clearance on a Forester is WORLDS different from a Impreza or Legacy. You can fit low offset rims much easier.

    -Colin
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Agreed. My point is just that he should explore all the alternatives.

    Call around. Discount Tire Direct, Tire Rack, whoever.

    -juice
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Hi Colin, I did not mean to suggest just taking rims from any make of car and slapping them on an outback, however as a matter of interest I checked with my local performance shop that I use from time to time, he checked through his manuals and found GM. use,s the same offset with a 16 inch rim on the 2,000 Z24 Cavalier.
    Cheers Pat.
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    ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    the Outbacks uses what sort of offsets?
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Ramon my source tells me the offset is 40mm. this source is a performance and speed shop, they are actively involved in preparing customers cars for racing and high performance so I am generally inclined to heed their advice.
    Cheers Pat.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Pat,
    I don't doubt your enthusiasm, but not only this board, but on the i-club there has been much discussion over what rims go on subies, and they are few and far between...

    -mike
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    hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    There's always the Darlene option... OEM wheels at or near cost, and free shipping... hard to beat!

    Cheers!
    Paul
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Pat, that is the correct backspacing for a 6" wide wheel. Yes, the Z24 only comes with a 16x6.

    A 6" wide wheel would result in a less-than-desirable fit for a 205mm tire (compared to 7").

    -Colin
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Colin Z24 comes with 205x55x16 goodyear eagle rsa tires check it out next time you are around a GM car lot.
    My neighbour has just bought one actually thats what got me started comparing lug patterns with subaru and it snowballed from there.
    Cheers Pat.
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I didn't say it couldn't be mounted, I said that it is a less desirable fit than a 7" rim.

    Then try mounting up a set of 225/50-16s!

    -Colin
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    225s would bulge out like crazy on a 6" wide rim. You would lose whatever performance gain you were hoping for.

    If you're gonna swap rims, get the widest you can find and afford.

    -juice
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