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see y'all in a bit
Rando
Mobil1 filter is about 12 dollars now, so I would put it as the most expensive.
Fram Penzoil, QState and STP are all inexpensive filters.
Champion is above them.
Later
Lessons (I think)...
1. A vehicle, especially with a low tech, low reving engine can easily do high mileage with a dino. oil.
2. Running many miles a day rather than short trips certainly helps.
3. If a vehicle can do a million miles on 3K changes, it can probably do 200K on 4K changes. Do you want to go way out of your way to make the engine last a lot longer than the car as a whole?
"Pennzoil-Quaker
State Company Releases Initial Report on Million-Mile Engine
HOUSTON (February 7, 2001) ; Regularly changing the oil every 3,000 miles contributed to keeping the engine of a 1995 pick up truck in near optimal condition even after a million miles of severe driving. This is the observation reached by researchers at Pennzoil-Quaker State Company's Technology Center in The Woodlands, Texas, following a detailed inspection and rating process performed on this million-mile engine.
Pennzoil-Quaker State Company [NYSE:PZL] obtained the million-mile pick up truck in August 2001 from William White of Lawrenceville, Georgia. Mr. White had driven his truck, a 1995 Chevrolet, approximately 800 miles per day while delivering newspapers to several cities in North Carolina and Tennessee. Every four workdays, Mr. White took his truck to a local fast lube, Lube 3000, to have his oil changed, always insisting on
Pennzoil® brand motor oil.
On August 29, 2001, the truck's odometer turned over to 1,000,000 while driving into the Lube 3000 oil-change bay. Pennzoil-Quaker State Company officials were on site to congratulate Mr. White, and take possession of the million-mile truck in exchange for a new pick up. The million-mile truck was then transported to Pennzoil-Quaker State Company's technology center for study.
"The million-mile truck engine is in excellent mechanical condition," said Jeffery Hsu, senior research engineer. "The engine exhibited very minimal wear considering that it was operational for more than one million miles." Of particular importance, "the million-mile engine is very clean in the category of sludge and varnish."
Rating & Measurements:
To rate and measure the million-mile engine for sludge, varnish and wear, CRC (Coordinating Research Council) rating practices were carried out utilizing CRC manuals 12, 14 and 16. The scale of rating is from 1-10, 10 being a part that has not been used and 9.9 being the highest score a clean part can be assigned. The sludge rating of all oil parts had an average of 9.33 with nothing lower than an 8.60, which were recorded on the valve covers. Wear measurements were carried out on applicable lubrication parts with four measurements observed per part and the average being recorded. When possible, the original specification measurements from the manufacturer were used to estimate wear. For example, the cylinder wall measurements averaged 4.001 inches versus the factory new cylinder wall specification of 3.9995 to 4.0025 inches. The wear was so minimal that an average of 11.9 percent of the original crosshatch honing marks were still present.
Comments:
The engine seems to be in excellent condition; both by visual rating for cleanliness and instrumentation measurements for wear. The condition of the engine is indicative of an engine that was well maintained with regular oil changes. This is evidenced by only trace amounts of sludge and the light coloration of varnish. Sludge is usually formed from harmful contaminations accumulating in used oil (fuel, moisture, and blow-by gases). Varnish coloring is associated with temperature; the darker the varnish coloring the more the oil has experienced high temperatures.
Highway driving conditions are typically classified as "normal" driving; however, this vehicle was loaded with bulk papers. The driving cycle of ~ 800 miles a day kept the oil temperature in a very favorable condition where many of the contaminants could be boiled off. The owner's diligence in changing his truck's oil every four days or about 3200 miles provided the engine with fresh lubricant that protected moving parts from sludge accumulation and kept the varnish to a minimum.
Pennzoil® brand products are manufactured and distributed by Pennzoil-Quaker State Company [NYSE:PZL], a leading worldwide automotive consumer products company, marketing over 1,300 products with 20 leading brands in more than 90 countries. Jiffy Lube, a wholly owned subsidiary of Pennzoil-Quaker State Company, is the world's largest fast lube operator and franchiser. For more information about Pennzoil-Quaker State Company, visit its website at
http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com."
Question...
1. Given the fact that Pz/QS is a Texas company, are there any such things as Pennsylvania oils any more?
2. If they're not really Pennsylvania oils, did they used to be? Was that a good thing or a bad thing?
3. Is paraffin good or bad in an oil?
60*8*300*7 = 1,008,000 miles.
Parafin refers to straight chain hydrocarbons, as opposed to cyclic (circular shaped) molecules of hydrocarbons. Candle wax is just one form of parafin wax. These days the oil comes out of the ground and gets extremely processed/reacted into whatever it needs to be as a final product...years ago alot of it was just seperated by distillation and solvents and then used as is.
see ya
good mornin
Rando
parfinic
napthetic
aromatic
Parafins increase the flash point, and firepoint, but solidify at lower temperatures.
All natural oils have all three elements to some degree.
Visc. 40c 73.2 67.0 69.1 65.3 70.8 70.0 71.7
Visc 100c 11.0 10.5 10.5 10.5 10.5 10.4 10.5
Visc. Indx 140 160 139 138 135 134 132
Flash-F 410 430 410 430 421 392 408
Pour-F -29 -33 -22 -17 -33 -33 -33
Low Pumping-C -25 -30 -22 -30
Don't know what (if anything this proves). All oil sheets up to date except for the Wal-Mart-- still SJ although new SL oils have been introduced.
1. Wal-Mart house brand isn't any of the three PZ/QS brands but is as good as most of them.
2. Pennzoil looks superior for low pour point.
3. Wolf's Head looks inferior for low pour point.
4. Mobil looks inferior for low flash point.
I also didn't receive a SuperTech tech sheet on their synthetic or syn. blends although I did request one. Just an SJ dino. spec. sheet-- even though all grades are now SL, at least in the St. Louis market.
like, is the cheapest oil on the market today better than "the best" was 5 years ago??
I bet some of these oil upgrades are just marketing hype
Some folks prefer the 10W for summer because it offers a little more protection when the engine is warming up and because it has fewer additives to make it a 30 weight at operating temperature. The 5W or 0W give better flow on startup for winter.
As 87ranger2 indicated, the synthetic 10W-30 is a very good choice because a synthetic 10W pumps as low as a 0W conventional oil for winter purposes and is a better natural lubricant at 30wt than conventional oil. As was mentioned 3K drain intervals are overkill with syn.
Did oil change today. To my big surprise, the oil looks so different from Pennzoil. Color is extremely light and clear, versus dark brown of Penn., and it pours so easily and oil seems so slippery. Pennzoil is much thicker and takes longer to empty a bottle.
It seems hydrocracking group II+ does make difference, at least on the appearence alone.
I did do a quick comparison of Bobistheoilguy's beloved Schaeffer's and it was significantly better in most areas, not suprising since it's a syn. blend.
Typical Test Data
SAE Grade 5W-20 5W-30 10W-30 10W-40 20W-50 30 40
CPS Number 220135 220013 220019 220059 220060 220002 220011
MSDS Number 8407 6717 6717 6717 6717 6717 6717
API Gravity 32.2 32.4 30.5 30.8 31.9 29.6 29
Viscosity, Kinematic
cSt at 40°C 49.2 66.1 74.8 98.9 174.4
cSt at 100°C 8.6 11 10.8 14.4 19.1
Viscosity, Cold Crank,
°C/Poise
-30/53
-30/63
-25/64
-25/64
-15/80
—
—
Viscosity Index 154 159 135 148 124 114 112
Flash Point, °C(°F) 224(435) 224(435) 234(453) 234(453) 250(482) 240(464) 250(482)
Pour Point, °C(°F) -43(-45) -43(-45) -38(-36) -38(-36) -35(-31) -30(-22) -24(-11)
Sulfated Ash, wt % 0.86 0.86 0.86 0.86 0.86 0.86 0.86
Base Number, ASTM D 2896 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.1
Phosphorus, wt % 0.098 0.098 0.098 0.098 0.098 0.098 0.098
Zinc, wt % 0.109 0.109 0.109 0.109 0.109 0.109 0.109
Typical test data are average values only. Minor variations which do not affect product performance are to be expected in normal manufacturing.
Check the following, this is the Chevron oil page, you can click on the "data sheets" on the left.
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/nafl/auto/content/motoroils.shtm
Wayne
I'm sure some of the auto parts stores carry it, but I can't recall which ones off-hand. Seems like AutoZone might, but Murray's doesn't. But I'd rather pay Wal-Mart prices for this stuff anyway. The auto parts stores are usually 50 cents a quart higher.
The other SL-rated conventional oil I've heard good things about is Citgo SuperGard. It seems to be even less well-known than Chevron Supreme, but has a similar pedigree (hydrocracked base stocks or whatever) and reputation. Both are among the cheaper brand-name dino oils in my area. My garage shelves are stocked with about 20 quarts of each.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Perhaps the Chevron web site lists some retailers.
fleetwoodsimca,
We don't have CSK auto parts stores around here.
I would like to try the Chevron oil after my supply of Mobil 1 is gone, but may have to try the Citgo stuff instead. Thanks.
Wayne
My car is '01 odyssey, wife's car is '00 Accord v6, parents' is '97 Accord I4.
Before all cars use Pennzoil 5w-30. My previous experience with Pennzoil is that after oil change, only I4 will have detectable smoother and quieter operation.
This time change 2 V6s with Chevron and I4 with left over Pennzoil. After change instantly feel 2 V6s engines are very distinguishly smoother and quieter, revving is easier and looser. The difference is greater than Pennzoil change on the I4. What a pleasent surprise. Since this is the first time I use Chevron, I'm going to keep eye on its performance throughout till next oil change.
I want to thank a lot people's input on this forum that helped me made the switch.
On the lighter grades, in order to meet the higher anti sludge properties, it must use high grade class II and III stocks. These reduce volitility and make the newer oils run smoother.
I found the same difference when I switched from Quaker State SJ to a Valvoline SL.
I'm not disputing it at all, just curious to know your source(s).
Sorry that I didn't make it clear in my post, the Pennzoil I bought since later last year are all SL. I live in San Francisco bay area(silicon valley). Our local Wal-mart Pennzoil is $1.71 a quarts. Chevron costs $10.99 a case at Costco, which is $0.92 a quart.
The pleasant surprise to me is that I believe I found a better oil(Chevron 5w-30), rather than a better service grade(SL), even though it is better than SJ.
I studied the SL specifications and consulted with tech support of at least 3 oil companies to get that information.
The old SJ requires a 60 hour survival on the old sludge test with no more than 250% thickening. The SL standard requires 80 hours with no more than 50% thickening. Standard oil can't do that in the lighter weights so the more durable hydrocracked stocks must be added. Don't know in what percentages.
gye
I didn't want to say it before, but your experience has also been mine. My switch to Valvoline in 2 cars has also been accompanied by a quieter smoother engine. I listened to this site about the base oil not being as good and tried Valvoline. My Mazda specialist mechanic also said that their experience is that the valve trains wear out faster on pzl/qs than Valvoline. So on that car the switch will be permanent.
The QS synthetic is a PAO and is excellent. It also quieted the engine. I will keep running it in the vehicle that used it in the past.
I have no doubt the Chevron is also an excellent brand. All of the newest ones I see at the auto stores list it as SL with Isosyn (I assume their name for higher grade stocks since at that price I can't see them adding a PAO.) I took a vacation recently and I put in Chevron gas when I could because it is the smoothest and most consistent when traveling. I wouldn't be surprised that they took the same care with their motor oils. Sounds like a good deal.
So why would Mobil-1 have to make changes to meet the same standards that even the cheapest SL dino oils were meeting?There used to be a big gap in volatility between dino and synths.Seems like the gap is narrowing ......A LOT!