Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

gregb882

As I said in my previous post, I've never had a vehicle use oil between changes so any consumption would be very ABNORMAL to me. Although I'm on my first Ford product with my 02 Explorer XLT 6 cyl, I've had numerous Chryslers, GMs, and one Mitsubishi (actually a Plymouth Arrow, but made by Mitsubishi). None of them used ANY oil. I did a quick scan of the owner manuals for my 97 JGC and 02 Explorer and couldn't find any reference to oil consumption. I don't think there is any excuse for consumption unless it is a high mileage vehicle. I hope that has been your only consumption experience.

adc100

I'd say about one forth of all the many cars I have had over the years (40) have consumed what you would consider excessive. My '69 Camaro was the highest consuming and from day one used about a quart every 1500 mi. 100K later that number had not changed. My 88 Ranger 2.4L was about the same. 125K later-no change. I have always been uncomfortable with higher oil consumption though. But it is by no means uncommon. The best vehicle I have had here is my 01 Sentra. In 6K it uses maybe 2 oz. of oil. Now undoubtly that would be higher with non-syn oil. Theoretically Amsoil and my experience supports this: A sound engine should consume between 1 to 2 oz of syn per 1K- Max.

fleetwoodsimca

My worst was a 55 Chevy I had in college. I drove it 900 miles to see my parents one Xmas, and by the time I got there, it was burning a quart per hundred miles. My father and I tore it down in his garage and spent our "leisure" time that two weeks cobbling a rebuild together from junkyard and new parts. For the record, the oil burning stopped, and I got 20K miles out of that "quickie" repair. I sold it then, and got a 51 Caddie from my father.

malachy72

30 years ago what was the recommended oil drain interval. I remember vaguely that filters were recommended with every other change.

bottgers

mrdetailer

I've been told for years that "some" consumption is normal, and I believe it is. However, I've never had a new car, or a relitively new car that's used oil. All of the cars I've had that have used oil have had higher mileage. Consequently, I relate oil consumption with a worn engine. I suppose I would be alright with it if it doesn't get progresssively worse. I do plan to use the Maxlife, but in the 10-30 weight, because that's what's called for in my engine. I wouldn't just arbatrarily use a 10-40 without first trying the specified viscosity.

adc100

Undoubtedly consumption would be higher using a dino? Someone else posted earlier that switching to a syn in a high mileage engine causes more consumption. Why do these two statements sound like counterdictions?

yurakm

Less burnt, more leaked.

adc100

Syn will get around seals and gasketed joints easier especially those which have had dino. However it will not oxidize (burn) as readily, the lighter chain molecules will not flash off and vaporize as rapidly. I realize SLs are better. But the other thing which I don't think is 100% known is that it seals better around rings-possibly due to a higher affinity for metal. As I said I don't think the mechanism is known (not by me anyway). Right now I change oil in six vehicles (all Mobil 1). One used about a quart in 5K. one, a little less than 1/2 quart. One is erratic-I'm clueless. The other three use virtually no oil in 5K. I pick 5K bc that's when a new filter goes on-on the average.

mrdetailer

I've had friends whose new cars consumed a quart per 1000 miles and the manufacturer said that it was within specifications. Just another reason not to buy a certain popular euorpean brand. Now that's bad.

I do admit to owning older cars. I have 3 vehicles, 2 purchased with around 60K, and one with 90K. But adding 3/4 to one quart per 3000 miles has been extremely consistent on all vehicles. It has not increased at all.

I switched one car over to Maxlife last January. I did notice a reduction in consumption. It took 5,000 miles to add a quart. I check and top off monthly, but I know the usage because every vehicle takes a different weight. A pure synthethic is about the same on the one vehicle I tried it in.

I however believe that since hydrocarbons is considered a significant pollutant, that the LEV, and ULEV standards clearly call for less oil consumption. That standard is newer than any of my current rides. I expect lower consumption with newer vehicles for that reason alone.

My experience with synthetics was that it doesn't consume quite much, but if it happens to leak, it goes all over. Big mess.

10W-40 was recommended because STP might affect hydraulic lifters since it thickens the oil. Better to try a heavier weight first.

fleetwoodsimca

The STP might keep the hydraulic lifters pumped up, and stop the click-clack and even stop power loss due to "deflated" lifter bodies. I won't put money on it, though. I had an old Cadillac that required a specific grade of Shell motor oil to keep the lifters happy. No other oil on the market got the same result.

gregb882

OK, I have to admit. My statement about never having a vehicle use oil between changes was based upon "having" to add oil in between. It is entirely possible I've had an ounce or two consumed, but nothing like some of the stories I've read above. I'm beginning to think I've just been lucky!

bluedevils

Isuzu Trooper 3.2 and 3.5L V6 engines are well known to consume a quart of oil as frequently as every 1,000 miles. Our previous Trooper consumed oil, and our 98 Trooper has consumed a quart every 2000-2500 miles since we bought it at 7,000 miles. It doesn't bother me, and it hasn't gotten any worse. So 'a certain European brand' isn't the only company producing vehicles that consume oil when new.

Isuzu claims a quart every 1,000 miles is acceptable. I wish our Trooper didn't consume oil, but I am at peace with it.

Someone posted here a while back that it's not the consumption that indicates a problem, it's whether the rate of consumption INCREASES as the vehicle ages.

armtdm

I also have a Izusu 97 3.2 L V6, 77,000 miles

Doesn't appear to use any via burning but have about 4 seepage areas, rear seal, somewhere by the alternator, above oil pan etc. However, even these seepages do not amount to 1 quart in my 7,500 mile change cycle. Purchased at 57,000 converted to synthetic 10W30. Leaks were present before conversion.

baveux

I can tell by experience that cheap oil can increase the oil consumption.

I've leased a Lumina LS with the 3.1 for 3 years, this car never burn or leak oil, level always at the full mark even if I was following the extended maintenance schedule.

I was due for an oil change the last one before returning the car. Since I'm a cheap guy, I decided to put the cheapest oil I could find.
At canadian tire here you have basically 3 quality of dino, they are all showing the symbol required. So I put the cheapest one and ran the car for about 3200 miles and I was a quart low !!! That never happenned to me before and the car wasn't leaking.

I'm pretty sure that evaporation plays a big part, meaning that you have a steady consumption of crankcase fumes through the pcv system, on the other hand it consume the oil so slowly that it is almost unnoticeable.

dudleyr

Just filled up my 2.2l Honda engine with oil (synthetic) while the car was still a little warm. Anyway the rest of the oil drained down, and when I checked later I was .2 quarts too high. I know you are not supposed to run too much oil in a vehicle, but is .2 quarts going to be O.K., or should I try to drain a little?

csandste

but 2 quarts is way too high. Your oil will foam and additional pressure (if the foaming doesn't wreck your engine) can blow out seals, etc.

My daughter did that on her car. Started by running it dry and when I reminded her to check oil, dumped in a quart at every oil change until she had two quarts too many in there. Oil light came on at idle, but was corrected with some STP, and the engine has 170K anyway, so it's essentially a beater.

malachy72

dudleyr

It is .2 quarts or about 6-7 ounces. That period before the 2 may be hard to see.

csandste

sorry, eyes aren't what they should be. If manufacturers made engines so tight that a slight overfill ruined the engine they'd all be in trouble. Mine is probably .2 over on the last oil change.

dudleyr

Thanks for the reassurance - didn't feel like crawling under to let a few ounces out. Next time I will let the engine sit longer before adding oil.

rhmass

Is there any merit in changing oil at 1,000 miles as part of the new car break-in procedure? The service manager at the dealer suggested this for engine longevity. Is there any truth in this in view of the advancement of the modern engine?
This oil change is not listed in the manual.

adc100

I would however change at no longer than 3K the first time. I switched to syn at 30 miles so I'm a fine one to talk.

fleetwoodsimca

I change the oil in new cars anywhere from 600 to 1500 miles on the "factory" oil.

pdalpsher

came free with the car from my dealer. It is a good hook to get you in the shop and the price was right

zimonawhim1

I have discovered a source for Synthetic ATF and am curious as to whether mixing this the conventional fluid in my car can cause problems. Since about half of automatic transmission fluid stays in the car during a change(and I'm not dropping the torque converter!) would I be asking for trouble? I could always stick to conventional since that's lasted 88k without a change, but I'm still curious.

mrdetailer

Not usually a problem. Manufacturers sell or have blends quite often as an original fill.

malachy72

that you are going to have an oil analysis done from your post on Bob's board. I hope you will post the results of the Chevron SL analysis here as well.

bottgers

I will.

malachy72

have any info on valvoline's synpower oil additive? It claims to have the most advanced anti friction, anti wear formula (moly?). I've e mailed them with this question but I do not expect a reply for some time due to holiday.

Happy 4th everyone, enjoy , cherish and protect freedom!

malachy72

I was able to get to the spec sheet, and it does include 'organomolybendum'

adc100

I would go with syn. If you have a GM vehicle you are beginning to push the envelope. The filter should be changed. Again if it a GM, I would drop the pan-change the filter. Run it change it-run it and change it again. Now you have at least 90% new oil in. Its cheap insurance compared to a 1K (at least) rebuild.

jinsong_liu

Hello:

I have browsed through few hundred meaages. still can not find a answer.

I have a 1999 Toyota and a 1999 Nissan. both have about 70K. I have been using castrol GTX for more then 2 years. but thinking about to switch to valvoline or valvoline maxlife. any suggestion?

Thanks

Jinsong

tex6

I am no expert, but would recommend staying with Castrol, do not go beyond 3K oil changes. If either vehicle is using oil, then you may consider going to the maxlife.

Castrol is used by most Toyota dealers. If you read the back of the bottle, it states "Japanese wear test"

As stated, the key is how your vehicles are performing with Castrol. 3K oil changes are important with non-synthetic oil.

csandste

Any SL oil should easily be able to exceed 3K. If you stretch to 5K (miles, not KM) I would invest in oil testing-- at least once. A 4K change cycle shouldn't stress any oil.

Maxlife is a very good oil with quite a lot of group 2+ or group 3 stock. Probably has a higher synthetic rate than most syn. blends which are about 10% synthetic.

Lots of people hate Castrol because Syntec is Group 3 and not real synthetic. I think this dislike has bled to other Castrol oils. Personally I think this is some slick reverse marketing on Mobil's part, but lots of folks take it very seriously. That being said, Maxlife is probably a better deal given the superior basestocks for not a lot of extra bucks as compared to Castrol dino.

tex6

Toyota engines, as recent sludge problems indicate. These are tight, hot-running engines with DOHC and oil is more apt to shear quickly.

csandste

I don't think there were any reports of Corollas "gelling" up with 4K changes, but if I had one of the offending vehicles I'd certainly go out of my way to avoid sludging.

As far as the Nissan is concerned, think it could easily go 4K.

wain

Yes I am in the 4k camp too on Toyotas.
i think the 3k is driven by Jiffy Lube Marketing.
Yeah 3k protects your engine, but so does changing at 2 k.
3k wastes a lot of oil in America

beer47

I use MB1 in my 2000 Trooper 2 yrs old with 65K. I change every 10k w/isuzu factory filter. The MB1 in my estimation can take the mileage but I do worry about 10K on the filter. But, so far so good. Troopers can easily go 200K and I hope to do the same. I also just bought my wife a 2002 Toyota Sienna. I negotiated lifetime oil change into the deal, which I'm sure will be dino. I'm not sure what Toyota reccommends for intervals but I will follow their mileage reccomendation since all I have to do is pay for filter. My point is sometimes you do different oil things with different cars. The main thing I believe is to check your level frequently and change with regularity.

fleetwoodsimca

Organomoly, eh? That makes Valvoline Synthetic sound very interesting.

For those that are worrying about 3K oil changes depleting our World reserves, etc, please don't. As it stands, the left over petroleum from gasoline production is the stuff that motor oil is made from. Any that is not needed is now wasted. There is plenty of room to go 3K per oil change, considering that.

csandste

I'd be at the dealers for those free oil changes, insisting on a 3K change cycle.

(I'm sorry--geling, not sludging)

cutehumor

I checked my oil yesterday, the oil level was close to full but I smelled gasoline in the oil..very strong. Should I be worried? how can I correct this? btw, I use valvoline maxlife, I did have an oil burning problem about a quart every 1500 miles using regular conventional. With maxlife, a quart every 3000 miles.

caesarslegion

In school we were all taught that oil is nothing more than dinosaurs that died millions of years ago and rotted into a smelly stuff we use to run our cars and economy. I think that maybe oil is a product produced from the center of the earth and it slowly leaches to the surface and fills in the under ground caverns that we tap and use. I also think we will never run out of oil because the empty wells will refill over time. As long as the earth has a molten core we will have oil. Saudi Arabia could pump it self dry but would eventually refill those under ground wells. The only question is how long does it take?

adc100

Art Bell. But U are right it is a crazy theory.

fleetwoodsimca

I won't comment on the claim-to-theory by caesarslegion, but I will mention that a latter day theory is gaining popularity for explaining recent discoveries in distribution and volume of petroleum-- discoveries that don't fit the old dinosaur theory so well. The thought is that methane gas remaining deep in the Earth continues to form complex hydrocarbons that eventually seep toward the surface. Et cetera.

malachy72

on the spec for SUPER TECH SJ rated dino. Has anybody gotten info on the S-T SL dino?

caesarslegion

Art bell? Im a free thinker and I dont really believe that I burn dead dinos and plant life in my cars. Im not the kind to fall in line with every one else on this. I could be wrong but its good to exercise the grey muscle now and then. Unlike you I like to comment and share ideas. Its good to know you believe every thing the oil industry tells you.

fleetwoodsimca

Seems like you are right on that. Somebody got sheets, but was that synthetic?

csandste

several posts up. I got them a few days ago and reposted on Bob's board. Don't know how they were obtained since I requested them of PZ/QS and received only the SJ dino sheets.

Someone may want to try bothering them again-- Pennzoil has a new web page. SuperTech dino is actually produced by the old Specialty Petroleum blending plant in Shreveport. Johnny over on Bob's board has a lot of info. on all things Pennzoil.

adc100

If you want to exercise your brain: Take the time to research ideas that are important to you. If you have any understanding of chemestry you would know that your idea is not possible. But first read up on "Cold Fusion". Another idea developed by the academic fringe which was discredited. BTW I have heard your theory long ago. At least try to use your own ideas.

On another subject: Edmunds Web Pages are a joke. Frequently they are so slow that I don't bother coming here. I would say to contact the Webmasters or the Host. But I have done that many times to no avail. Later guys.

caesarslegion

Edmunds is a top notch board that doesnt need you or your friend fleetus trying to flame and incite trouble. I use my own ideas and trust me when I say I dont really care what you think. As long as you believe and do what others say and think you will make a fine drone. Im sure edmunds got your post and will address it.-cheers.

malachy72

it's quite a treat. Going to their new site the specs on the SL oils are as impressive as Chevron if my eyes are right.