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Honda Civic: Problems & Solutions

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  • debs4debs4 Member Posts: 7
    it's very frustrating. Imagine every single time you go out to start your new 2002 car that you've only had for a couple of months, it won't start. That's what many of us are dealing with on a daily basis. I've been left stranded 5 times in a month because of this car that, in my opinion, isn't very reliable. Add on to that, Honda's stance that it's your fault that this is happening because they build "reliable" cars...so they tell the dealership to halt service to you because the problem is the driver not the car. Then there are the guys in the service centre at the dealership who ask you every time you bring the car in...are you sure you're not leaving your lights on? Are you using the right key to start your car? Are you turning the key in the right direction? Maybe you shouldn't have your heat and radio on at the same time...etc, etc, etc...

    I'm paying $400 per month for the car and $200 per month for insurance and I've spent more time on the bus and in a rental car during January and February than I have in my car.

    Another thing is that I didn't start having problems with mine until after 14,000 km...so for those of you with 2002s with less than that, you *could* be in our situation when you hit a certain number of km as well. Until you are dealing with this situation and you are dealing with a company like Honda that thinks it can do no wrong, you wouldn't understand.

    And I agree with Chacha, there seems to be A LOT of people complaining about the same problem. The sad thing is if you call Honda Canada or American Honda, they'll tell you that they have no record of this happening to anyone else.

    So I apologize if my post seems anti-Honda or angry, but I am very frustrated with dealing with this whole situation. I'm sure Honda's built in Japan or Honda's that were built pre-2002 are great cars...unfortunately I was sold a lemon that was built by North American Stupidity.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    A neighbor of mine has a 2000 Honda Civic that has a valve tap for the first five seconds on a cold engine start up. The vehicle has 22,000 miles, and the oil and filter has been changed by the Honda dealer every 3,000 miles. Does anyone out there in the world of "Honda" have any ideas or suggestions? -----Greg
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I have a slight pinging in my 01 Protege when the engine is cold (overnight at less than -5C). it goes away in less than a 3 minutes.

    My 93 Civic had a major case of pinging at 60.000miles, but was also a POS car - the famed Honda reliability did not find itself on that car.

    I would take it easy for 3-5 minutes after a cold start and no engine damage should occur.

    Also:

    Check oil level!
    Might wanna go to mid grade fuel.

    Dinu
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    A few people complaining on Edmunds does not constitute a lemon and does not mean that Honda builds bad cars. They sold almost 700,000 Civics in the US between 2001-2002 and even 100 people on Edmunds complaining (which there aren't) isn't a significant enough percentage to label all Civics unreliable. I have a 2002 with 12,000 miles and it starts every time, just like a co-worker with a 2002 HX, my first 02 SI which was totalled started every time, and another co-worker with a 2001 Civic has had no problems. For every person you find that says they have a starting problem I'm sure you can find 100 that do not.

    I actually bought a 98 Civic new in November of 1998. I had owned it for 3 months and had 4700 miles on it when I noticed there seemed to be evidence of paintwork on the rear of the car and the little piece beneath the rear tail light did not line up properly. I called Honda and after dealing with their District rep and their customer service dept I ended up getting a 1999 Accord EX for dealer cost and received $1000 check towards that purchase.

    They didn't have to do anything. There was no quality defect, the car ran fine, and someone else wouldn't even have noticed it. But they stepped up and I have been loyal to Honda since.
    I did buy a Protege ES but dumped it after 7 months because of the rough engine and the car seemed to be on a path towards self-destruction when it was cold.
  • debs4debs4 Member Posts: 7
    A little piece of the tail light not lining up and a car that never starts are just slightly different problems, dontcha think? That I could live with, a car that leaves me stranded, I can't.

    I'm assuming that you are in some way affiliated with Honda, hence the 'they can do no wrong' attitude, but even a handful of people with this problem is too many for a company that is known for their reliability.

    I'm happy that your car works well. It was probably one of the ones built in Japan or you just happen to be lucky. I have a 2003 Civic Sedan rental right now with under 3,000 km that starts every time too. I wish that the Civic Si that I'm paying for did too. And I wish Honda would take this seriously.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I wasn't comparing the issue with my car with the starting problems some are experiencing. My point was that I had a problem with my vehicle and Honda took care of me. They didn't have to do anything. The car would never have qualified as a lemon and there were no mechanical defects yet Honda stepped up for me.

    I am in no way affiliated with Honda on a professional level. I've owned plenty of their cars and due to those experiences I am extremely loyal to Honda. Maybe I just have good luck but I have yet to have a major problem (knock on wood) with any new or used Honda we have owned.

    I own a 2002 Si which was built in the Swindon, England plant. Our Accord was built in Ohio and it has been trouble-free as well. I am not saying that a problem does not exist in the vehicles here on Edmunds. But Edmunds is generally used as a complain forum and if you consider the number of Civics that have been sold since 2001, it is far from catastrophic, it is far from making the Civic a lemon, and it is far from making Honda any less reputable than before.
  • redsirredsir Member Posts: 34
    Not every dealer has good service. Go elsewhere till you find satisfaction.

    One local dealer has service so bad I don't know how they stay in business. Another plays "I don't care" sales games. No sale there!

    My current dealer is pretty good and when they make a mistake they always do a satisfactory job in the end. One brake service took four tries, but they gave me a free rental on the fourth day. Some times you have to vent a little to get their attention. Then say thank you when they get it right. You would be surprises how well this works. This is my third lease from this dealer.

    8200 Km on my 2002 Sir, very tight. Very satisfied. TMV tells the story if you want to compare.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    I'm sorry to hear about your problems.
    Complaining about Civic's reliability out of frustration is a big NO-NO even at the Civic Problems thread.
    I call it a "Honda superiority syndrome".
    Lots of folks here nourish the car reliability and resale value priorities as their biggest reasons for buying a Honda.
    They won't allow people like you to put even a slightest dent in that wildly spread public perception.
    ...Until they get problems of their own. But even then they'll probably blame themselves for not taking a better care of their precious "investment".
    Sorry for interrupting.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Even the national reliability studies don't like to admit what crap Honda builds. CR, Intellichoice, J.D Power all suck up to the powerhouse Honda. They are the richest automaker in the world ya know.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Here we go...
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    There's superiority syndrome, and then there's simple superiority. 'Tain't braggin when 'tis true.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    My sentiments exactly river. Now if we all drove a Ford Focus and tried to say there weren't problems THAT'S superiority syndrome at it's finest.

    If you will notice no one ever said that the people who are complaining aren't having the problems they describe. It's just not reasonable to then label Honda as unreliable just because your car has a problem. Most manufacturers would kill for a 1% defect rate and if even 1% of Civics sold between 2001-2002 are having the same problem that's 7,500 that would be complaining.

    Basically, if you think your Honda is unreliable then what else are you going to buy? A Ford Recall ,, I mean Focus? A Sentra? Pretty reliable but there's a few lemons there too and you have a rear axle. A Corolla? Reliable, just like the Civic, but again you have people who complain about it too. What else does that leave? A Protege is reliable but the engine is a bit buzzy, but there are people who have had transmissions replaced in their Pro's. Doesn't mean all of them are bad though. Outside of that you have the Neons, Cavaliers, Sunfires, and Elantras of the world. None of which are setting the world on fire with their reliability and/or safety ratings.
  • speedingticketspeedingticket Member Posts: 33
    Bitching and moaning about a Honda? My next car will be a Honda as I am FED UP with "the big 3". MY 2002 Chrysler Intrepid is a bucket of bolts, my 1997 Grand Am is one of the most fragile cars on the road and my dad's 1995 Taurus is on its 3rd engine and the car hasn't hit 100,000 km yet. Face it, The Amercians haven't figured out how to make a car that is reliable yet, do you think they ever will? The Yanks still haven't got a F***** clue!!!
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
  • gperrgperr Member Posts: 163
    Folks,

    Is anyone else having a problem with their 2002 Civic where the trunk just comes open at random times, or it won't close the first time you try to shut it???

    I am going to take it in for service, but I wanted to see if anyone else has had this problem.

    gperr
  • cwliangcwliang Member Posts: 54
    I had a problem with my trunk that was hard to close (temperamental-- sometimes it closed, sometimes it didn't). The problem was that the plastic latch in the back had become deformed, possibly due to cold weather, because it really wasn't a problem until the winter time. Fixed under warranty, the dealer replaced the trunk latch.

    Another problem people have had with the trunk is with the trunk release lever inside the car... it sometimes gets stuck in the up position, so when you think you've closed the trunk, it is actually not latched. I don't know if this would cause the trunk to open at random times, though.
  • jfigueroa1jfigueroa1 Member Posts: 209
    I had the same problem, I thought it was not right when one day I was driving and the trunk open by it self, and the same thing to close it is would have to be shut in a straight force directly down. took it to the dealer and they change the assembly.
    Greetings from sunny Miami.
  • jade00jade00 Member Posts: 7
    Hi Just saw your posts and we seem to be the only people with this problem! It is very annoying to say the least and many people notice the headlight dimming thing but very few accept my explaination about fuel economy etc (see post # 135 by dudka)Let me know if they ever figure out what it is and I will do the same for you!
  • jade00jade00 Member Posts: 7
    Hi I am having the same problems you mention with my 01 Civic Ex. Have had no luck getting it fixed. Have had my alternator replaced and nothing changed see my post jade00 "Honda Civic Owners: Service & Repair Issues" Jan 8, 2003 9:35am Let me know if they ever fix your problem and how! I'll do the same for you. As far as I can see we are the only people on this website with the problem.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I just put Yokohama Avid Touring tires on my 2000 DX hatch, and I love em. They are quiet, comfortable, and have been pretty good in snow for a non-snow tire.

    They also come with an 80,000 mile tread warranty.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Go to a junk yard and get one. Or, check out www.manhonda.com they have sell everything at pretty good prices.
  • akw3akw3 Member Posts: 14
    My Civic is a 2001 LX and my right front power window runs very slow either up or down. It was in the dealer twice and all they did was applied grease on the rollers but the problem didn't go away. Anyone experienced the same problem?
  • sfuzsfuz Member Posts: 4
    I have a brand new 03' Honda Civic Coupe. The day we picked it up (last week), we popped the trunk and then couldn't close it. Dealer explained that we have to close it with our hand directly in the center of the trunk...uh huh. I have an HX model, which comes with automatic door lock on driver-side. As I exited the car, I closed the door with the automatic door lock and then closed the door...went to check that it was locked, and low and behold, the door opened a crack. Seems these plastic latches have problems? Concerned and think we're going to take it to the dealer this weekend...surely that shouldn't happen. Anyone else have experience with this?
  • sfuzsfuz Member Posts: 4
    Just bought a brand new 03' silver coupe HX...has driver-side automatic door lock. When I use it, then close the door,and pick up the handle to make sure it is locked, the door actually opens a little, causing the interior light to come on. Locks fine when key-locking it from the outside. Very concerning since it's 1-week old. I had a Dodge Neon previously and never had a single problem...I got a Honda b/c of it's reputation, I hope it applies to my new Civic. Anyone else have this problem with the doors? Seems the plastic latch isn't catching maybe?
  • barbarian71barbarian71 Member Posts: 11
    I just traded my 97 CX hatch and I thought it might be interesting to some to report it's history...

    Bought it new, 97. Had all the usual issues...dome light working only intermittently after I had an aftermarket stereo installed...Fuel door release busted after some minor interior flooding, and seatbelt (driver) a bit iffy on the retract...

    However, I must say I was downright guilty about "abandoning" this sweet car that served me 150% every day I took her out of the garage...why? After 97,000 miles, I did nothing other than change the oil, and replace the tires. No sparkplugs, brake pads, coolant, nothing. AC was as cold as the day I bought it...now I realize that I should be arrested for such an egregious display of neglegance to a vehicle, but honestly, I have never owned such a tolerant car...but, she was just too cramped and noisy in the end, but served her purpose well which was to 1- never break down and 2- save me lots of money...mission accomplished.
     May she RIP, and forgive me...
  • dcddcd Member Posts: 25
    I think your problem is related to the "feature" Honda has of requiring the vehicle to be locked by the key in order to avoid locking the keys in the vehicle. It can be defeated by lifting the inside door handle while pressing the lock switch.
  • wrobelcwrobelc Member Posts: 45
    I have always done my own oil changes and have found that doing this on my 02 Civic LX is not easy because of the filter placement. I've heard about extender units that attach to the oil filter location and then extend so that you can screw on the oil filter to end of extender making it easily accesible. Does anyone know where to purchase these? Has anyone else used these extenders and if so what is your opinion of them?
  • sfuzsfuz Member Posts: 4
    You were right! It was the "Honda" feature...we tried it and found it in our car manual. We just wanted to say thank you very much for this info. It saved us a lot of time of having to bring the car to the dealership...which by the way, they didn't bother to mention this feature to us and when we told them, they acted like they didn't know what we were talking about. Anyway, thanks again, we really appreciate it!
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    GF has a '99 Civic hatch. She's always had trouble starting it when the fuel is below 1/4 tank, takes a few extra cranks for it to start.

    It sat for a week, and it wouldn't start at all on Sunday. Replaced the orginal battery since it had been on the way out anyway, but it still wasn't starting. A couple of bottles of dry gas and techron, and everything seems okay.

    Are there any known issues with the Civic fuel system? Pump/fuel filter?

    The check engine light is now on, thinking it was because of the battery disconnection. How many key cycles does it take for the error to be cleared? Is there anyway to check the codes without having a scan tool? I know I can check my codes with a on/off sequence with the ignition.

    Finally, there's a popping/squaking noise from the front right suspension area. Noise started after the tires were rotated. Thinking bump-stop or spring support issues, something out of place allowing metal-on-metal contact.

    Thanks for any and all advice!

    -B
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    49,000 miles

    Change the way you start the car.

    Turn the key to the on position until the check engine light turns off. Supposedly this pressurizes the fuel system.

    Then start the car. Mine starts on the first try every time, cold, hot, and low fuel, it doesn't matter.

    If you want to check codes you can buy a Helm manual for the car you are curious about. (Around $75 and it will tell you how to fix anything in the car. MUCH better than a Chiltons manual.)
  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    my post was blank when I checked for replies so here's my second attempt

    I recently purchased a 2000 civic lx automatic with appx 45000 currently
     I've put approximately 900 miles on it so far and have a few problems I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions or advice on

     1) I seem to be getting pretty bad mileage from the listed average
     my first tank averaged a dissapointing 31 mpg for appx 80-90% hwy miles but I had not had the 30 and 45 k service done the original owner only changed the oil and front brakes so I went ahead and had the combined 30 and 45k done at just over 44k
    my second tank following the service got a dismal 23mpg for approximately 50 50 city hwy I thought possibly due to the gas treatment and oil treatments the dealer used in the major service so I waited again and my 3rd around 29.7 mpg right now im at 137 miles and less than half a tank so i have a feeling its going to be bad again (I spoke to the dealer and they suggested the oxygen sensor but he said a maintenance light should be coming on)

    2)I've noticed a strange vibration after having the Tires rotated and balanced at the major service it seems to happen most prominently between 40-45 to 50-55 mph I think its a tire I tried some slow driving and turning doughnuts in a parking lot to try and figure out what it was and noticed what seemed to be a "dip" like one of the tires has a lump or something . I took it to the dealer and a mechanic rode with me but he said it seemed like road bumps to him its strange it seems to come and go and not happen every time I get in that speed range and at higher and lower speeds it isnt really noticeable it has been a bad vibration at times (makes me nauseated) any thoughts?

    3) and most important the brakes act funny I'll hit them and start applying larger amounts of pressure and then its like they "slip" and the car seems to gain momentum and then catch again any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated thanks
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Regarding #2 it could be:

    Bent wheel/rim
    Weight on wheel shifted or felt
    Tire pressure not the same in both front and both rear tires
    Worn-out tires (bulge, cut-off part of tire on thread or sidewall)
    Allignement off

    Dinu
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Check your axles - could they have been bent in an off-road escapade (read: running a curb, etc)?

    Dinu
  • doverdamdoverdam Member Posts: 3
    My 2002 Honda Civic EX is not even a year old (I bought it in the end of March) and this past week I noticed a clunking sound when I turned a corner. It seemed to be worse when I was turning to the left, but also clunked when I turned to the right. Then with the car in Park and idling I took the steering wheel and turned it back and forth - and it clunked both to the right and left turns! So this afternoon I took it to the dealer and after inspection he told me it was the right front passenger side strut - and that they were on national backorder! From what I have read in these discussions these struts have been a problem since at least last year with the 2001 models. At any rate I talked to the manager in the parts dept. and they said they would take the strut out of one of their new cars (demo) and put it in mine so I would not have to go on the backorder list - they called every dealer in town first - no struts for the Civic. Being a woman, I was at their mercy and had to believe that I was getting a new strut replacement. They let me take a loaner car home and called me just one and a half hour later (they told me it would take at least two) and said the car is ready. It no longer clunks, but it makes me wonder about this fast replacement and from one of their new cars! This particular dealer is one of the most reputable in town and has been around for years. So I can only go on their word. It was under warranty, so I paid nothing. Before I got the Civic I had a Toyota Corolla for ten years and never had a strut or shock problem.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Stop worrying, it sounds like your dealer went out of its way to fix your car. Also, that is about the right amount of time to change a strut and you even got a rental. You have a great dealer, mine would have told me you are out of luck until the part comes in and no way would they give up a rental. My strut went bad on my 2001 Accord in less than a year too. Yes struts should last at least 80,000 miles or more, but sometimes you just get a bad part. Honda doesn't make struts, they come from a sub vender. Enjoy your car.
  • abc246abc246 Member Posts: 305
    I don't agree. They should have lasted longer than that and it does not matter if Honda did not make them. Get real! That is a lame excuse.

    What the heck is up with Honda quality lately? It seems the have gone down hill fast. I had a 92 Accord and it was not perfect but it was a great car. It had the original shocks when I sold it at 130k miles! I read the Accord posts with popping noises, engine problems. The civic posts are just as scary.

    My question is has to do with a 98 Civic EX with auto trans. This is a friend’s car. The check engine light is on and the transmission seems to be delaying shifts. The engine seems to rev higher than normal before the next shift. I plan to try to hook up my laptop with OBDII adapter, but have not done this yet to get the trouble code. Anyone have any ideas what is wrong or is there a common problem with this year?
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    My 93 Civic used to do the same (reving while in "D" like the clutch was fully in, but it was an AT) - scary when you lost all power for a second when making a left turn.

    I ended up selling the piece of junk after head gaskets blew twice and a cylinder head went the way of Enron. Also: the A/C and radiator went... It only had 125K kms.

    Dinu
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Sure, they should have lasted much longer. They didn't. The dealer did everything it could to rectify the situation. What more do you want?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    You need to get out more.

    I can tell you I have friends that have done NO maintenance and thier Civics are running fine. I've owned several myself and never had a failure. So I guess that would leave us right where we started.
  • jbx74205jbx74205 Member Posts: 1
    Hey guys. I'm new here. I got a 2002 Civic last August and unfortunately was involved in an accident in September. The accident involved the front end of the car (Mostly the right front) and the repairs included replacing the A/C condenser, the right front headlight and the bumper. Ever since I have had the car back, I've noticed that it makes a gurgling noise when I accelerate. Once the car gets moving it stops, but it is quite annoying. If I had to guess I would say that there is fluid somewhere that it's not supposed to be. I haven't taken it to a dealer yet because I can't afford to be without the car for an extended period of time. I was wondering if anybody might have an idea as to what was causing this problem.

    On another note, I have also been getting really lousy gas mileage. An average tank will get me about 25-27 MPG city driving. I know it's winter, but I don't think it should be this low. On a recent highway trip I only got about 33-34. Could this be related to my gurgling problem?

    Thanks for any help you can give!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Get real! That is a lame excuse. Nice comments when all I did was state facts. Her dealer did go out of the way to get her back on the road and as I clearly stated, struts should last 80,000 miles or more. The actual life span depends on to many variables to mention, but I can confidently state that all you did was sell your 130,000 Honda to someone with worn-out struts. They don't last forever and they don't have to leak to be bad. I guarantee I could have shown you they were performing out of spec. Years ago we didn't have bulletin boards like we use now to share issues, so now it seems like cars have more issues. Just like if you watch the news a lot, you might get the feeling murders are up, when they have actually been declining. I own a 2001 Honda and a 91 Nissan which I bought new. I'm not thrilled will Honda Service, but it is a good car. It's not perfect and parts do fail, they always will on any car. I will say I think Hondas are better than most for failure rates, but it would be nice if they would back their cars up with the standard 5 year/60 mile power train warranty that every other Japanese car offers along the the basic 3/36.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    The murder rate's down only because trauma care has improved. The number of serious assualts is actually up, as is crime in general.
  • leigh4uleigh4u Member Posts: 1
    Hi everyone... I have just bought a 2003 Civic LX Coupe 2 weeks ago and only have 1000kms on it..Was just wondering if anybody knows what this is...When I drive my car on the Highway, once in a blue moon I get this screeching noise coming from under the dash?? and I can't pin point it from where it is coming from...It goes on untill I slow down or play with one of the dash buttons, Could this be some sort of electrical problem??
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Actually I know it hard to believe, but according to the latest FBI data, most violent crime is down. Good point on murder though, I should have used a better example. It's that old over publicized thing again.

    But back to Honda problems. An intermittent sound like that coming from the dash can be a tough one to solve. You may have to wait until it gets a little more predictable, so you can get the dealer to try to isolate and fix it. Call your service manager and ask, maybe you will get lucky. Hopefully it can easily be solved while you have a warranty. Good luck
  • mukkumukku Member Posts: 1
    I bought a civic LX last July. I have only about 3500 miles on it. I noticed that I am getting an average of 24-26 mpg. I travel within the city (no highway) almost all the time. I have taken it to the dealer two times for oil change (at 3 months and six months).

    Further, I noticed that the maximum gas I can fill is about 10 gallons as opposed to the 13 gallon gas tank.

    I will be grateful to any replies and remedial measures.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    If you can't fit 13 gallons in, you aren't using 13 gallons, you're using 10. Pretty simple stuff. If you don't use it, you don't have to replace it.
  • m6owneronedaym6owneroneday Member Posts: 23
    My 2001 Civic has glazed rotors with only 12K miles on it. Now I get this annoying squeak at a certain brake pressure. Not sure what is going on with Honda quality. My dad's '92 Accord has 130K on it and just replaced the rotors for the first time with no glazing. I am seriously considering other makes for my next car. Honda's still make decent vehicle but the problems I am getting with newer Honda's raises some concern.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Quality has nothing to do with glazing. That's operator error/misuse. The manual plainly states use the brake lightly in the first few hundred miles and you will have longer brake life. Maybe your dad has a different driving style most importantly during the break in of his brakes.
  • m6owneronedaym6owneroneday Member Posts: 23
    All my cars are broken into easy for 1000miles. Plus I have been through a few cars already. Drove a '92 Accord, '92 Tercel,'97 BMW 528i no glazing problems in any of those cars. The '99 and '01 Civic's had glazed and/or Warped Rotors. Even my friend's '98 Civic warped in 22k driving around LA. I don't think its drive error/misuse if I have been in and out of 5 cars and only had issues with 2 Civic's. Not saying its a bad car but the brakes could use some work. Bigger rotors would be nice. Even Car & Driver said the '03 Civic Si had a good amt of brake fade. For a car that's suppose to be sporty, brakes shouldn't fade as much as they said it did.

    Quality has a lot to do with what the rotors can and can't take. BMW designed there rotors to sightly wear so that brakes don't glaze. Honda is suppose to me more fun to drive than a Toyota but what fun is there if you can't drive it hard every once in a while. ;-)

    Looks like Brembo cross drill rotors will replace them soon.
This discussion has been closed.