"...It is about whether two identical people will get different levels of service..."
I don't freakin believe this! I left here four days ago and you people are still splitting hair over the same stupid thing.
Take it from me, I just flew Southwest to Florida and EVERYBODY seemed to be getting better service than me. Maybe they paid more or were in some secret club but I was always the last to be boarded and never got to sit with my family. The seats were too small and there was almost no food service (unless a bag of peanuts is food). It was horrible.
I do agree with Moo that he who pays gets. On check in you could pay a fee to have you bags checked at the curb. Us other poor wretches had to wait in line with the crying babies.
One particularly nasty episode occurred when upon arrival home on Veteran's day the flight attendant made an announcement that all vets would be allowed to de-plane first. A nice gesture I thought.
One vet got up and started down the isle only to be blocked by several young people pushing and shoving to get their carry-on bags out of the overhead. This set off a frenzy of similar selfish behavior and before you know it the whole mob was pushing all the vets out of the way in a scramble to get off. Disgusting! :mad:
Money might get you a better deal on the plane but service sure doesn't.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I am writing mainly because I am stopped at 2046 but it says there should be 2049.
But, let me say, this arguement has gone round and round. Sometimes when you pay more you get more, but sometimes you don't. I won't give examples because there have been plenty both ways here. Sometimes it isn't even more money that gets you more...what about the "squeeky wheel" theory?
No one at the dealership will put together the fact a car was sold at a high profit or a low profit. Once it is sold I doubt that is in the computer information on that customer - Right Moo? Or does the computer have a secret code; Car A sold low profit gets an L for low/ Car B gets sold at high profit, gets an S for Sucker?
What I think is once it is sold you call the service department for service and they don't have a clue what you paid for the car. That's my guess.
I agree with you on this, however I don't think Moo was talking about regular service on the car. I think he was talking about those little "extras" that can be doled out by the salesman. Things like a coffee mug, floor mats, etc.
I also don't even think that he was talking about the price of the car. I think it was more the attitude of the buyer. You all know the type. Works the other way around too, IMO. :shades:
I think he was talking about those little "extras" that can be doled out by the salesman. Things like a coffee mug, floor mats, etc
Thanks houdini, that would make more sense....but.....
A few hundred dollars savings could make a bigger difference than coffee mugs, key chains or mats. To save $500 I'll buy my own thank you very much.
IMO I think you would get more if you drove a reasonable but hard bargain (not necessarily being a grinder). You get respect and get treated more fairly. I think patsies get no respect and don't get extras.
Exactly, you do not have to be an A/H when you negotiate. Just respect the other guy, use common sense and get the best deal you can without being abusive or disagreeable.
Yep, both of them mentioned "GRINDERZ" when stating that they would probably get trashed on the survey and no way on any extras.
That reminds me of when I bought my Titan. On the dealer sticker it stated floor mats as a dealer add on. When I was waiting to get into F&I this customer service person approached me and asked if I was interested in purchasing floor mats as they don't come with the truck. I said sure I'll buy some but what will I do with the ones I'm being charged for that are in the truck now. He said those are the factory mats (carpeted) says the dealer also sells heavy duty rubber mats that you can place on top of the carpeted mats. Great don't own the truck yet and here I am looking at two sets of mats.
He said those are the factory mats (carpeted) says the dealer also sells heavy duty rubber mats that you can place on top of the carpeted mats. Great don't own the truck yet and here I am looking at two sets of mats.
That always gets me, floor mats to put over your floor mats. They should give you a choice; carpet mats with rubber in stategic places for warmer climates, and heavy duty rubber with a bit of carpet for bad winter areas or for heavy working vehicles.
Wouldn't it be nice to go and pick up your car, get your keys, and drive off with a list of extras you can think about. (rustproof, undercoat, tire insurance, extended warranty, mop n glow, etc etc.....the last thing you want is to go to the torture room and try to be sold on extras.....)
Exactly, you do not have to be an A/H when you negotiate. Just respect the other guy, use common sense and get the best deal you can without being abusive or disagreeable.
Would you please give us a few examples of customers acting like A/H while negotiating?
Also, how can one possibly not be disagreeable while negotiating? The only way not to be disagreeable is to agree to seller’s asking price. How do you feel about Bobst method? He disagrees with your asking price, gives you a take or leave it offer and walks away.
Excellent work! Just for that, I'm going to see that your 2009 Edmunds.com membership fees are fully waived.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
One question I will pose to the consumers in this forum from a sales persons perspective: Is there ANYTHING and I mean ANY"FREAKIN"THING you buy as a consumer that you give any thought to or care one iota about what the profit margin your retail provider is making. Do you ask to see the invoice on that Prada bag you're buying? The TempurPedic deluxe pillow top,$5,500 Mattress you are in love with?How about a Tag Heuer or Rolex watch? Any idea or concern as to what the dealer paid for it?Are you even vaguely aware that the guy that sells you a new Restoration Hardware or Pottery Barn 5 piece bedroom set probably makes twice the profit a dealer makes selling you a $50,000 Convertible? and do you care? apparently not! Inside joke Whats the consumers definition of a good car deal vs. a bad car deal? A good deal is whatever I paid for my car,a bad deal is whatever you paid for your car.Everyone will lie about how much they paid for their home and how little they paid for their car!
"No, but I will respond with a question of my own."
Of course you won't. The fact that you refuse to answer a simple yes/no question is proof that your position on this issue is wrong and invalid.
The guy here was seeking advice for the invoice minus rebates deal he got. Your response was... "Ya, if they are offering that deal to you, don't worry about the profit they are making. They obviously just want to move some vehicles out."
Telling him not to worry about the dealer's profit goes directly against your premise/position that zero-profit customers do not get the same level of service as profitable customers.
If you position was accurate, you would have warned the guy to expect less service than if he were paying more, but you did the complete opposite.
Yes, I like to fish. Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with the topic we have been discussing. Whereas the question you won't answer is directly related to your argument/position.
One question I will pose to the consumers in this forum from a sales persons perspective: Is there ANYTHING and I mean ANY"FREAKIN"THING you buy as a consumer that you give any thought to or care one iota about what the profit margin your retail provider is making. Do you ask to see the invoice on that Prada bag you're buying?
Not the profit margin but I do research big purchases and look for the lowest price. I have been known to negotiate on items that are considered non-negotiable. may not get a lower price but I have gotten thing tossed in for free or additional services.
I personally could care less what a dealer makes or if they make any money. I negotiate a price that I am comfortable paying. I do all my research and number crunching before I finalize a deal. Plus there are so many ways that a dealer makes money on selling cars that I (and you) may not be aware of like manufacturer sales incentives.
Sensing from your post, it seems like you are frustrated with some of your customers. All I will say is either change your approach to be more adaptive to the individual customer (ie - the ones who have done their research, know all the options, etc., talk straight to them; the ones that need more hand holding, you know it is going to take some time and more patience on your part) or get out of the business? Retail sales is tough because you have to deal with all customers. I'll admit, some of us can be a pain the a** but it is your job to deal with it (within reason).
Basically, get over it and realize it is part of car buying process since so much information is available on the internet.
Enough. Seriously. E-NOUGH. We draw the line at harrassing other members to respond to questions or allegations. They don't have to. You don't have to. No namecalling.
End of this discussion.
I have a schnazzy belt and purse made from the hide of the horse that was beaten to death sometime during the course of this discussion. Further posts pursuing this line of conversation will be removed without notice.
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I personally could care less what a dealer makes or if they make any money. I negotiate a price that I am comfortable paying. I do all my research and number crunching before I finalize a deal. Plus there are so many ways that a dealer makes money on selling cars that I (and you) may not be aware of like manufacturer sales incentives.
Your attitude is certainly a very common one. Customers don't care what,if any profit we make and they still mistakenly believe that dealers have hidden ways to make money. Even after websites like this make it plain that dealers don't have these hidden revenue streams.
All anyone with a brain has to do is look around at all the dealers and manufacturers in trouble right now. There is going to be a HUGE readjustment in the auto industry over the next couple of years. Fully 1/3 to 1/2 of the dealers in business now could be gone in a few years or sooner. The reason why consumers have the upper hand isn't due to the internet, it is due to the fact that there simply are too many dealers cutting each others throats. Get the number of dealers under control and profits will rise. Yes, it will make cars more expensive for consumers,but frankly, cars are too cheap right now as it is. The manufacturers have created this bubble by making it easier and easier to buy cars. Same thing as what happened w/ housing.
I'll answer your question. The customer is gonna get diddley/squat.
why? Because customer service is entirely dependent upon the dealerships revenue stream. People who are the best at serving the customer want to go where they can make the most money. So, the dealer with a lower revenue stream simply has to hire people who they can afford to pay. Which is why there are so many complaints on this website about dealership behavior. Note that you almost NEVER hear anyone complain of the way they are treated in a Mercedes, or Lexus or Porsche store. Why? Because those people who work there are getting paid. Now, before you start splitting hairs about the 1 guy who paid good profit vs the 1 guy who didn't that doesn't matter. Things don't work like that. Your average mass market dealership doesn't have the ability to separate those people. What Moo is talking about is a dealership that does,like a Porsche store. Or a Lexus store, or a bimmer store or a Volvo store. Piss off the dealer and see how you are treated. At a Hyundai store, there simply isn't enough revenue potential to matter. But, someone who buys a lux car and pays real money and refers people and has a relationship w/ the store is gonna get his backside kissed, buffed and polished. The guy who buys the Hyundai is just a number today, nothing more. Chances are,his salesperson won't even be there should he ever need anything. I think if we are going to agree on anything, it is that you get what you pay for.
One question I will pose to the consumers in this forum from a sales persons perspective: Is there ANYTHING and I mean ANY"FREAKIN"THING you buy as a consumer that you give any thought to or care one iota about what the profit margin your retail provider is making.
OK I will answer, no not even cars. I really don't care how much money the dealership makes or doesn't make off of me. Same as I don't care how much wally world makes off of me or the restaurant or movie theater makes.
I do care about getting a good deal and not being overcharged. That is especially true for big ticket items. I will research and find out what are the best prices and what some retailers are selling for. I am also not afraid to try to negotiate a price, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Also, the "Grand Pooh Bahh" said no more posts on this particular subject. So, be prepared to have the Delete-O-Matic 5000 rainith down upon yo head. :surprise:
I don't disagree with you. I know it has been discussed before that no-haggle pricing is the best option. but as you mentioned, all you need is one dealer who decides not to play the game.......
The manufacturers have created this bubble by making it easier and easier to buy cars
While true, this has been the driving force for the sales volume. The problem the car industry is going to have is that people buy cars mostly based on want, not need. Most people don't need a new car every few years. Cars are built to last a long time, and if people keep them twice as long, then that would be alot fewer new car sales. Not to mention the people who could, but now can't get financing. The inability to get people with poor credit financed will be a huge loss to dealerships. They often tend to be the least informed buyers.
Hey all,I need some advice, my past experience buying a car was pretty disastrous. I walked in to buy a $4000 honda and walked out with a $10'000 Audi... a couple of years later, i'm back to shopping for a Honda, except now, I still owe $6000 on the audi, and trade-in looks like the best option. At a $4000 trade in value, what are my financing options should I find a car at 4k or less... could the difference be transferred over? Appreciate any input.
Man...'8sparkplugs' is a mind reader. He was talking to you in post 2080 before he was actually talking to you. :confuse: Some guys that hang out here are good!!
Your answer lies in that post. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2080"While true, this has been the driving force for the sales volume. The problem the car industry is going to have is that people buy cars mostly based on want, not need. Most people don't need a new car every few years. Cars are built to last a long time, and if people keep them twice as long, then that would be alot fewer new car sales. Not to mention the people who could, but now can't get financing. The inability to get people with poor credit financed will be a huge loss to dealerships. They often tend to be the least informed buyers"
sorry, can't find an answer there. Credit is not the problem, keeping the car is. It's over 100k miles, and I can tell you, this one doesn't look like it's built to last. The repairs never end, and I can't afford to keep it! anyone?
I think his answer is to keep the car as you will just get yourself more upside down trading it in.
You say that the repairs never end but for $4k you might be getting another endless repair car (even a Honda). You may be going from the frying pan into the fire.
The question I have is what is your monthly car payment and average monthly repair bill? Would getting into another vehicle be less than that? Also if credit is not a problem why are you buying low end?
One final question, if you were looking for a $4k Honda why did you buy a $10K car?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You're better off buying another $2K beater car for cash than getting rid of the Audi on an upside downtrade - if you can get one these days. Sure the beater won't look so good in the driveway, but one of the two cars will always be running, while you look for the cheap way out on the repairs on the other. The beater only gets liability insurance and so will be cheap to insure. The Audi won't get so many miles on it and will be less likely to break down on you. Just drive it when you care what people will think of you when you pull up. Make it into the Saturday night/ Sunday morning car. This approach will cost you less in the short term and the long term than flipping what you owe on the Audi into a new loan. Think about it. If you owe money on the Audi when you trade it, that debt isn't going away. Add that debt on the the cost of buying the new car, and you're worse off than you were before because you're paying off two debts. You're probably already on a 60 month loan so you're not going to be able to stretch out the payments to get them lower each month.
Better to dig your way out this time than next time when you'll only be farther upside down.
At a $4000 trade in value, what are my financing options should I find a car at 4k or less... could the difference be transferred over?
Banks won't loan you $10k on a $4k car. Not these days. Lokki's idea is pretty good, buy a beater and drive the Audi less, or drive the beater and try to retail the Audi.
I still owe $6000 on the audi, and trade-in looks like the best option. At a $4000 trade in value,
Keeping a car that constantly needs repairs is a losing proposition....and getting a cheaper beater could give you a lot of debt and little use.
Sounds like if you trade in the Audi and get 4k but owe 6k you will have 2k of debt. If you are set on a Honda why not check out a 2 or 3 year old model. At least you will have a reliable car and won't be spending money on a car that is unreliable and will constantly need repairs. Another option would be to lease with a buy back option when you might get your finances in order.
My ideas are different than most. I have seen too many friends pour money into used cars, and every time they spend $1000 they say well this will be the last time I do it......but they keep doing it thinking it will be the last time. The money spent could have gone to buy a new or almost new car.
Cars are like bad movies. If a movie isn't good in the first 20 minutes it usually doesn't get better and I won't waste another 2 hours of my valuable life on it. Same with a car, when they start needing lots of money, it seldom gets any better.
The best bang for your buck would be a 4 or 5 year old Buick . Considering the amount of money to be spent, I would say a 8 year old Buick with medium miles, should be both reliable and inexpensive.
The best bang for your buck would be a 4 or 5 year old Buick . Considering the amount of money to be spent, I would say a 8 year old Buick with medium miles, should be both reliable and inexpensive
There's quite a few good reliable cars that you can buy pretty cheap...Buick is one. A guy at work (very careful with his money) just got a 2005 Ford 500 with 50,000 miles for $7200 and he can get a one year warranty for $450 - 2 year for $1000. These cars should hold up pretty good....larger models from GM and Ford usually rear wheel drive for simplicity and for a longer life. Not so sure about Chryslers though every once in awhile they come out with something that lasts...like K cars I still see around.
You also have to remember that a lot of people use an unexpected repair or two as an excuse to "need" a new car. I don't know if that's the case here, but I see that a lot with my friends and co-workers.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Certainly you jest. The K car had to be one of the biggest POS they ever made. Don't know why but when you mentioned K car, oldfarmer came to mind. Hmmm.
jipster wrote : "Doesn't seem fair though does it? If I'm sitting on a plane next to some guy who paid a couple hundred bucks less than me... I'd want a little preferential treatment. Maybe, have a lovely stewardess fluff my pillow... trim my toenails. Our sales friends at least keep things fair with the way they do business. Please elucidate your sales experience. (i.e those that pay more get more), and I can't complain about that. " Peace all. Schnazzy, ya gotta like it. Rhymes with, oh hell it doesn't matter. And your point regarding car sales is exactly what? Now back to real car sales from real car salesmen. Btw they are called flight attendants these days, far be it fom me to be sexist.
"...The K car had to be one of the biggest POS they ever made...oldfarmer came to mind..."
What made you think of me? The mention of K cars or POSs?
For what it's worth I think the K car was built VERY cheaply and most of them fell apart or rusted pretty quick. The drive train was a lot more robust. My son had one with a rusted out floor but which ran until he tore the oil pan out. Almost made it home that night even without oil in the engine. A friend of mine has another K car that he has been driving for over a year with a crack in the block. Just keeps the oil topped off and it's fine.
That car did save Chrysler though. Still see quite a few 20 year old models chugging around.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That car did save Chrysler though. Still see quite a few 20 year old models chugging around.
I mentioned K-Car because I saw one yesterday and I thought how many 20 year old cars are there driving around? And yet, here is this crappy K-Car - you would expect if someone paid 3X as much for a Caddie they would have tried to keep that going.
If any one thinks government money or Lee Iacocca saved Chrysler they would be wrong.....some designer was sketching out mini vans and with the oil shortage happening at just the right time...Chrysler with a lot of luck had the right vehicle at the right time - a perfect storm. (Note for Boomer; like your manager said, they were fortunately prepared for the opportunity when it appeared)
Had a customer yesterday who made a low offer on an Accord and wouldn't budge. He kept telling me about how they were on a tight budget and about how every dollar had to count.
Of course, he HAD to have the navagation, leather etc.
Comments
I don't freakin believe this! I left here four days ago and you people are still splitting hair over the same stupid thing.
Take it from me, I just flew Southwest to Florida and EVERYBODY seemed to be getting better service than me. Maybe they paid more or were in some secret club but I was always the last to be boarded and never got to sit with my family. The seats were too small and there was almost no food service (unless a bag of peanuts is food). It was horrible.
I do agree with Moo that he who pays gets. On check in you could pay a fee to have you bags checked at the curb. Us other poor wretches had to wait in line with the crying babies.
One particularly nasty episode occurred when upon arrival home on Veteran's day the flight attendant made an announcement that all vets would be allowed to de-plane first. A nice gesture I thought.
One vet got up and started down the isle only to be blocked by several young people pushing and shoving to get their carry-on bags out of the overhead. This set off a frenzy of similar selfish behavior and before you know it the whole mob was pushing all the vets out of the way in a scramble to get off. Disgusting! :mad:
Money might get you a better deal on the plane but service sure doesn't.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But, let me say, this arguement has gone round and round. Sometimes when you pay more you get more, but sometimes you don't. I won't give examples because there have been plenty both ways here. Sometimes it isn't even more money that gets you more...what about the "squeeky wheel" theory?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hold on! So you are saying for that person not to worry about the profit the dealership is making!?!?!?
But haven't you been saying that customers who don't pay a profit will get less service/perks!?!?!
So based on your approach, you will not provide your best service to this customer, correct?
What I think is once it is sold you call the service department for service and they don't have a clue what you paid for the car. That's my guess.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I also don't even think that he was talking about the price of the car. I think it was more the attitude of the buyer. You all know the type. Works the other way around too, IMO. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Thanks houdini, that would make more sense....but.....
A few hundred dollars savings could make a bigger difference than coffee mugs, key chains or mats. To save $500 I'll buy my own thank you very much.
IMO I think you would get more if you drove a reasonable but hard bargain (not necessarily being a grinder). You get respect and get treated more fairly. I think patsies get no respect and don't get extras.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Can't take credit for that one. It was mikefm58's example.
hint, hint... ideal time to kiss up to me
Surely you don't order your drinks, right? They get brought to you.
That reminds me of when I bought my Titan. On the dealer sticker it stated floor mats as a dealer add on. When I was waiting to get into F&I this customer service person approached me and asked if I was interested in purchasing floor mats as they don't come with the truck. I said sure I'll buy some but what will I do with the ones I'm being charged for that are in the truck now. He said those are the factory mats (carpeted) says the dealer also sells heavy duty rubber mats that you can place on top of the carpeted mats. Great don't own the truck yet and here I am looking at two sets of mats.
That always gets me, floor mats to put over your floor mats. They should give you a choice; carpet mats with rubber in stategic places for warmer climates, and heavy duty rubber with a bit of carpet for bad winter areas or for heavy working vehicles.
Wouldn't it be nice to go and pick up your car, get your keys, and drive off with a list of extras you can think about. (rustproof, undercoat, tire insurance, extended warranty, mop n glow, etc etc.....the last thing you want is to go to the torture room and try to be sold on extras.....)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You keeping missing the point repeatedly. If you could, you would have got it by now.
madmanmoo -
Could you please answer the very simple question I asked, and will repeat below?
In that example, would the customer have received a lower level of service from you than what a more profitable customer would have received?
Thanks
Would you please give us a few examples of customers acting like A/H while negotiating?
Also, how can one possibly not be disagreeable while negotiating? The only way not to be disagreeable is to agree to seller’s asking price. How do you feel about Bobst method? He disagrees with your asking price, gives you a take or leave it offer and walks away.
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Inside joke Whats the consumers definition of a good car deal vs. a bad car deal? A good deal is whatever I paid for my car,a bad deal is whatever you paid for your car.Everyone will lie about how much they paid for their home and how little they paid for their car!
No, but I will respond with a question of my own.
Do you like fishing?
Of course you won't. The fact that you refuse to answer a simple yes/no question is proof that your position on this issue is wrong and invalid.
The guy here was seeking advice for the invoice minus rebates deal he got. Your response was...
"Ya, if they are offering that deal to you, don't worry about the profit they are making. They obviously just want to move some vehicles out."
Telling him not to worry about the dealer's profit goes directly against your premise/position that zero-profit customers do not get the same level of service as profitable customers.
If you position was accurate, you would have warned the guy to expect less service than if he were paying more, but you did the complete opposite.
I asked you a very simple and clear question about fishing that you refused to answer. That means that everything you've ever said is wrong.
You must be about 12 years old.
Yes, I like to fish. Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with the topic we have been discussing. Whereas the question you won't answer is directly related to your argument/position.
Not the profit margin but I do research big purchases and look for the lowest price. I have been known to negotiate on items that are considered non-negotiable. may not get a lower price but I have gotten thing tossed in for free or additional services.
I personally could care less what a dealer makes or if they make any money. I negotiate a price that I am comfortable paying. I do all my research and number crunching before I finalize a deal. Plus there are so many ways that a dealer makes money on selling cars that I (and you) may not be aware of like manufacturer sales incentives.
Sensing from your post, it seems like you are frustrated with some of your customers. All I will say is either change your approach to be more adaptive to the individual customer (ie - the ones who have done their research, know all the options, etc., talk straight to them; the ones that need more hand holding, you know it is going to take some time and more patience on your part) or get out of the business? Retail sales is tough because you have to deal with all customers. I'll admit, some of us can be a pain the a** but it is your job to deal with it (within reason).
Basically, get over it and realize it is part of car buying process since so much information is available on the internet.
We draw the line at harrassing other members to respond to questions or allegations. They don't have to. You don't have to. No namecalling.
End of this discussion.
I have a schnazzy belt and purse made from the hide of the horse that was beaten to death sometime during the course of this discussion. Further posts pursuing this line of conversation will be removed without notice.
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Your attitude is certainly a very common one. Customers don't care what,if any profit we make and they still mistakenly believe that dealers have hidden ways to make money. Even after websites like this make it plain that dealers don't have these hidden revenue streams.
All anyone with a brain has to do is look around at all the dealers and manufacturers in trouble right now. There is going to be a HUGE readjustment in the auto industry over the next couple of years. Fully 1/3 to 1/2 of the dealers in business now could be gone in a few years or sooner. The reason why consumers have the upper hand isn't due to the internet, it is due to the fact that there simply are too many dealers cutting each others throats. Get the number of dealers under control and profits will rise. Yes, it will make cars more expensive for consumers,but frankly, cars are too cheap right now as it is. The manufacturers have created this bubble by making it easier and easier to buy cars. Same thing as what happened w/ housing.
The customer is gonna get diddley/squat.
why?
Because customer service is entirely dependent upon the dealerships revenue stream. People who are the best at serving the customer want to go where they can make the most money. So, the dealer with a lower revenue stream simply has to hire people who they can afford to pay.
Which is why there are so many complaints on this website about dealership behavior. Note that you almost NEVER hear anyone complain of the way they are treated in a Mercedes, or Lexus or Porsche store.
Why? Because those people who work there are getting paid.
Now, before you start splitting hairs about the 1 guy who paid good profit vs the 1 guy who didn't that doesn't matter. Things don't work like that.
Your average mass market dealership doesn't have the ability to separate those people. What Moo is talking about is a dealership that does,like a Porsche store.
Or a Lexus store, or a bimmer store or a Volvo store. Piss off the dealer and see how you are treated. At a Hyundai store, there simply isn't enough revenue potential to matter. But, someone who buys a lux car and pays real money and refers people and has a relationship w/ the store is gonna get his backside kissed, buffed and polished. The guy who buys the Hyundai is just a number today, nothing more. Chances are,his salesperson won't even be there should he ever need anything.
I think if we are going to agree on anything, it is that you get what you pay for.
OK I will answer, no not even cars. I really don't care how much money the dealership makes or doesn't make off of me. Same as I don't care how much wally world makes off of me or the restaurant or movie theater makes.
I do care about getting a good deal and not being overcharged. That is especially true for big ticket items. I will research and find out what are the best prices and what some retailers are selling for. I am also not afraid to try to negotiate a price, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
To tell the truth I think the steak I had last night came from the same horse. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I liked moo's answer better. :P
Also, the "Grand Pooh Bahh" said no more posts on this particular subject. So, be prepared to have the Delete-O-Matic 5000 rainith down upon yo head. :surprise:
While true, this has been the driving force for the sales volume. The problem the car industry is going to have is that people buy cars mostly based on want, not need. Most people don't need a new car every few years. Cars are built to last a long time, and if people keep them twice as long, then that would be alot fewer new car sales. Not to mention the people who could, but now can't get financing. The inability to get people with poor credit financed will be a huge loss to dealerships. They often tend to be the least informed buyers.
my past experience buying a car was pretty disastrous. I walked in to buy a $4000 honda and walked out with a $10'000 Audi... a couple of years later, i'm back to shopping for a Honda, except now, I still owe $6000 on the audi, and trade-in looks like the best option. At a $4000 trade in value, what are my financing options should I find a car at 4k or less... could the difference be transferred over?
Appreciate any input.
Man...'8sparkplugs' is a mind reader. He was talking to you in post 2080 before he was actually talking to you. :confuse: Some guys that hang out here are good!!
Your answer lies in that post. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
sorry, can't find an answer there. Credit is not the problem, keeping the car is. It's over 100k miles, and I can tell you, this one doesn't look like it's built to last. The repairs never end, and I can't afford to keep it!
anyone?
You say that the repairs never end but for $4k you might be getting another endless repair car (even a Honda). You may be going from the frying pan into the fire.
The question I have is what is your monthly car payment and average monthly repair bill? Would getting into another vehicle be less than that? Also if credit is not a problem why are you buying low end?
One final question, if you were looking for a $4k Honda why did you buy a $10K car?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This approach will cost you less in the short term and the long term than flipping what you owe on the Audi into a new loan. Think about it. If you owe money on the Audi when you trade it, that debt isn't going away. Add that debt on the the cost of buying the new car, and you're worse off than you were before because you're paying off two debts. You're probably already on a 60 month loan so you're not going to be able to stretch out the payments to get them lower each month.
Better to dig your way out this time than next time when you'll only be farther upside down.
Banks won't loan you $10k on a $4k car. Not these days.
Lokki's idea is pretty good, buy a beater and drive the Audi less, or drive the beater and try to retail the Audi.
Keeping a car that constantly needs repairs is a losing proposition....and getting a cheaper beater could give you a lot of debt and little use.
Sounds like if you trade in the Audi and get 4k but owe 6k you will have 2k of debt.
If you are set on a Honda why not check out a 2 or 3 year old model. At least you will have a reliable car and won't be spending money on a car that is unreliable and will constantly need repairs. Another option would be to lease with a buy back option when you might get your finances in order.
My ideas are different than most. I have seen too many friends pour money into used cars, and every time they spend $1000 they say well this will be the last time I do it......but they keep doing it thinking it will be the last time. The money spent could have gone to buy a new or almost new car.
Cars are like bad movies. If a movie isn't good in the first 20 minutes it usually doesn't get better and I won't waste another 2 hours of my valuable life on it. Same with a car, when they start needing lots of money, it seldom gets any better.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There's quite a few good reliable cars that you can buy pretty cheap...Buick is one. A guy at work (very careful with his money) just got a 2005 Ford 500 with 50,000 miles for $7200 and he can get a one year warranty for $450 - 2 year for $1000. These cars should hold up pretty good....larger models from GM and Ford usually rear wheel drive for simplicity and for a longer life. Not so sure about Chryslers though every once in awhile they come out with something that lasts...like K cars I still see around.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Certainly you jest. The K car had to be one of the biggest POS they ever made. Don't know why but when you mentioned K car, oldfarmer came to mind. Hmmm.
"Doesn't seem fair though does it? If I'm sitting on a plane next to some guy who paid a couple hundred bucks less than me... I'd want a little preferential treatment. Maybe, have a lovely stewardess fluff my pillow... trim my toenails. Our sales friends at least keep things fair with the way they do business. Please elucidate your sales experience. (i.e those that pay more get more), and I can't complain about that. "
Peace all. Schnazzy, ya gotta like it. Rhymes with, oh hell it doesn't matter.
And your point regarding car sales is exactly what?
Now back to real car sales from real car salesmen.
Btw they are called flight attendants these days, far be it fom me to be sexist.
What made you think of me? The mention of K cars or POSs?
For what it's worth I think the K car was built VERY cheaply and most of them fell apart or rusted pretty quick. The drive train was a lot more robust. My son had one with a rusted out floor but which ran until he tore the oil pan out. Almost made it home that night even without oil in the engine. A friend of mine has another K car that he has been driving for over a year with a crack in the block. Just keeps the oil topped off and it's fine.
That car did save Chrysler though. Still see quite a few 20 year old models chugging around.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I mentioned K-Car because I saw one yesterday and I thought how many 20 year old cars are there driving around? And yet, here is this crappy K-Car - you would expect if someone paid 3X as much for a Caddie they would have tried to keep that going.
If any one thinks government money or Lee Iacocca saved Chrysler they would be wrong.....some designer was sketching out mini vans and with the oil shortage happening at just the right time...Chrysler with a lot of luck had the right vehicle at the right time - a perfect storm. (Note for Boomer; like your manager said, they were fortunately prepared for the opportunity when it appeared)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I get tired of the inane postings too.
Had a customer yesterday who made a low offer on an Accord and wouldn't budge. He kept telling me about how they were on a tight budget and about how every dollar had to count.
Of course, he HAD to have the navagation, leather etc.
LOL. You always complain and I am quite "inane"... we make the perfect team don't we? :P
Did you think that was a spelling mistake...left out the "s" after the 1st "n"? :P
Actually if you two do get together I think there are other sites for that kind of thing, if you know what I mean......
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
just curious...