“Pontiac is doomed and the company pulled the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard: that it will re-ship the leftover G8s to be sold in Australia. Hello???? Australian cars have right side steering, meaning the cars will have to be re-modified for Aussie market, just how much will that cost???”
My understanding is that they were actually planning to build a limited run - from parts already stamped \ assembled in stock & still IN OZ. Planned for installation in G8s that will not now be built & exported to the USA.
Specifically, I’d guess, those parts [ hood, front bumper, grill, etc ] that would be the same for left or right hand drive. . .
"General Motor board of directors, meeting in Detroit Tuesday, has voted that the automaker keep its European subsidiary Adam Opel AG in light of the improving environment for GM and the importance of Opel and Vauxhall, its British entity, to its global strategy, the automaker said in a statement issued late Tuesday."
Is the symbol for OPEL with a horizontal lightening bolt really dorky looking? Or is it just my impression of it and others think it looks modern, cool, up-to-date?
I assume the other is VAuxhall with the bird going through the circle. It looks like an old Pontiac hood ornament from the 50s.
The one on the left is an Opel one from 1935 I think. I got it from Wikipedia. The one on the left should be the current one, but the link talks about them changing it again.
Is the symbol for OPEL with a horizontal lightening bolt really dorky looking? Or is it just my impression of it and others think it looks modern, cool, up-to-date?
I always thought it looked like some kind of logo that you'd see in a low-budget 1970's sci-fi movie. Maybe Roger Corman designed it? :P
Interesting. Can you see the irony? It all started as a union of 4 separate, distinct companies, and then slowly each began to lose it's identities until nothing is left but the rings that mark the union.
Can you see the irony? It all started as a union of 4 separate, distinct companies, and then slowly each began to lose it's identities until nothing is left but the rings that mark the union.
The irony is GM's. If Audi were GM they would have *retained* each of those 5 company names, putting out rebadges of the A3, A4, A5, A6, A8, S4, R8, Q5, Q7, TT, etc. under each name, for a total of over 40 models. They would have 5 sets of redundant dealerships who competed with each other. Then their reps would come on Edmunds and claim that the brand structure did not add any cost to their operation and that they brought in more buyers in different demographics that way.
"General Motors' (GM) decision to hang on to its European car unit Opel, including Vauxhall, was welcomed in the UK but met with anger in Germany.
German leaders and labour unions had favoured a sale, to Canadian car parts maker Magna, as the best way to save German jobs as it included a guarantee that no German factory would be closed."
But now this unionized company selling non-premium cars for premium money on US market (audi a3, audi a4 2.0T)
Okay, if you say so. It's been a while since I've sampled an A4 2.0T, but I had a coworker that owned an A3 and it was a very nice car, definitely premium in my book. I guess small = non-premium? Back when I owned a 2000 Jetta TDI the interior quality and fit-n-finish absolutely shamed my grandpa's 2000 Park Ave. I don't think you'll ever find a door seam/panel gap in a VW/Audi that you could put a finger in. I could nearly put my thumb into some of the gaps on that Park Ave.
My wife's 07 GP is nearly as bad, nothing lines up right and the gaps change as you walk around the car. Truely pathetic. Are things changing? I'm still not convinced.
Two months ago, Mark LaNeve, at the time G.M.’s vice president for United States sales, said quality issues at the assembly plant in Kansas City, Kan., were holding up delivery of the LaCrosse. In an e-mail message, Randal Fox, a Buick spokesman, said, “The issues are minor (mainly fit and finish), but we want to make sure the cars are right before they’re shipped.” Sounds like more of the same to me.
GM gives a 5 yr powertrain warranty to it's products, as opposed to the Japanese' 7yr warranty (some even give 8-10) or the Koreans' massive 10yr warranty.
It's a bit easy to see just how, uh, confident (or not) GM is with the longetivity of it's cars isn't it?
IMO, warranties are primarily a marketing gimmick. I've never bought a vehicle based on a warranty and I never will. Who wants to live with a lousy car for ten years regardless of what the warranty is.
Ironically, Ford has probably one of the worst warranty's in the market, yet according to several sources (CU, JD Power, etc), their reliability is better than GM and Chrysler overall and is approaching Toy/Honda levels. That's not to say their cars are better, as reliability doesn't always equal desirability.
It's perfectly understandable that the German government is up in arms over the Opel thing, given all the money they plowed into it. GM basically broke its word here, and also broke its word to the American government, as the sale of Opel was one of the conditions of exiting bankruptcy so quickly.
We are setting a really really bad precedent here with the things we have allowed, even helped, GM to do. Not to mention, have paid for through the nose with taxpayer money. Banks and corporations will forever expect to be given a free pass by the government whenever they get into trouble, and really with what we did for GM and Chrysler (and AIG) why wouldn't they?
It will certainly keep me out of GM and Chrysler products for life, although I may be tempted by the 500 Abarth next year if that makes it here.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Here's another interesting note: it's looking forward to layoff about 10,000 more employees, including Opel's, to save money. I wonder how Opel and German government would react :P
BO did the bailout as a "social medicine" thing. So many lives affected by such a mass casualty of losing so many GM jobs. I agree, though, that sets a schmaltzy example of what the Federal government is really for. We've pretty much beat that dead horse up ad naseum on Edmunds already, IMO.
GM should've been allowed to fail on it's own. Same with Chrysler. Neither has really done me so well that I would cry many tears over their demise. I have purchased several Fords though and would miss them a lot more.
Ray, I know you only buy great cars and the G8GT is one of them. But GM continues to price wrong and really only has a few desirable cars at the moment. To say "May the best car win" is a great marketing statement but from the mouths of a bankrupt company on taxpayer relief, we really need to see a whole lot more before I for one shop them again. AFAIC, they will be playing catch up to some stiff competition so the best cars WILL win but will not be GM in almost all categories save pick-up trucks.
There are recent cases such as the botched release of the first Camaro that was plagued with problems. The LaCrosse would have been the same except they admitted they needed to hold it up to fix some "fit and finish" issues.
Axing the G8 was brilliant, continuing 5 brands and cloaking the "war of the clones" (Eqinox/Terrain/SRX - Acadia/Traverse/Enclave), speaks with a forked tongue from my pov.
".....GM gives a 5 yr powertrain warranty to it's products, as opposed to the Japanese' 7yr warranty (some even give 8-10) or the Koreans' massive 10yr warranty."
So, what Japanese company gives a 7, 8 or 10 year warranty? And if you buy a 2 yr old used Korean car, do you get to keep the warranty?
The problem with 5/100 is that most people don't drive 20K miles per year, so they'll run out of time well before the 100K mile mark. 5/60 or 6/70 are far more realistic for most.
It's true that Hyundai-Kia's 10/100 powertrain warranty drops to 5/60 for second owners, but that's still in line with the other Asian companies' nonluxury models.
If it is just reliability then sorry they are just wrong. Who knows more about reliability CR, JD Powers, True Delta your Aunt Mildred or the warranty company that has to pay out when something breaks?
Obviously the warranty company is the only one with real skin in the game. Sure if CR gets something really wrong they might get a dinged reputation or lose a few subscribers but they won't lose any real revenue.
Your using the same ridiculously idiotic argument that idiots used before to claim Big 3 resale values were almost or just as good as foreign cars. They kept pointing to the lease guides that supposedly could predict "resale value" because the banks leasing guides had "skin in the game" as you say.
So why did Chrysler and GM/GMAC lose so much money in their financial divisions? The leasing values were supposed to be infallible? Why did they stop leasing cars? It is because they were falsely predicting artificially inflatedly high values for big 3 vehicles, just like the appraisers of houses were providing falsely inflated appraisals of homes. It's all a big fraud.
JD Powers is nothing but a paid for advertisement and is 100% worthless, also, they are often dead wrong.
CR is the only scientifically sound source of reliability information, and has been historically accutate with real people's real experiences.
MSN autos is worthless too, as they seem to follow JD POwers pay-for-performance ratings method. I don't want the spin, I want the truth, and CR is the only one I trust.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Mitsubishi gives a 10 year and 100,000 mile Warranty on all of their cars. I have one on my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. And last I heard Mitsubishi is a Japanese automaker.
If you are getting 60K miles and 4 years out of your tires, you're not driving it nearly hard enough.. Maybe it's driver's like me, that drive their vehicles hard that require foreign quality. If Big 3 cars need to be babied to survive, I'm not signing up for one anytime soon.
So far the only lemon I've owned was one from Chrysler's (PRE DAIMLER) days in the mid 90's.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Mitsubishi gives 10yr powertrain warranty for one. Subaru gives 6, and I'm sure Toyota is said to give 7yr powertrain in CR, perhaps I'm mistaken then.
And yes, Korean brands warranties get cut in half when transferred to a second owner. But we're not talking used here are we? :shades:
Warranty costs are hard to find, but while this is not current it shows differences did exist in warranty costs between domestic and asian automakers.
This is from warranty week in 2004:
In the year just ended, automotive experts say roughly 16.68 million new vehicles were sold in the U.S. Warranty Week projects domestic U.S. auto warranty claims of roughly $7.9 billion, meaning an average of just under $476 in claims per vehicle sold in 2003.
Using the warranty claims and accrual rates observed earlier in 2003 for each manufacturer, and applying those rates across a full year's sales, Warranty Week expects General Motors Corp. to spend roughly $537 on claims per vehicle. Ford Motor Co. will spend around $541. DaimlerChrysler AG will spend around $628. Their weighted average will be around $560 per vehicle across all their brands and product lines.
Japanese imports, meanwhile, will average only $226 per vehicle in warranty claims, with Toyota/Lexus at $233 and Honda/Acura at $216 per vehicle sold in the U.S. Deservedly, these automakers are perceived to be manufacturers of high-quality vehicles that experience relatively few warranty claims. But not everything they make is top-rated, and not everything made in Detroit is at the bottom of the rankings. What's surprising is how wide the gap is between actual and perceived quality.
Here is a more recent article on warranty costs and if Warrantyweek's calculations are correct, the domestics as of 07, still spend nearly 3 times as much on warranty claims per vehicle than Toy/Honda.
Granted I still don't think it's a complete apples to oranges comparison as I'm sure GM/Ford/Doge commercially used diesel trucks etc. probably skew the numbers a bit. Regardless, interesting numbers to chew on and I'm sure Lemko will say the differences are due to the Asian auto refusing claims. LOL
Interesting that Toyota's warranty costs per car shot up into 07 coinciding with the new Tundra and Camry which both had teething issues from what I've read.
If you are looking at warranty data and then add the other incentives on the market today, Hyundai seems to be the best choice out there in my view.
The quality perceptions still favor the Asians hands down but the recent huge issue at T will no doubt make a big difference when the issue is disclosed on the acceleration recall. The T response smells of GM-type con-artist denial at the moment. Didn't any of these companies remeber the huge brand goodwill J&J got relating to the 1982 Tylenol scare? Sheesh! Look's like the GM accountants that lost their jobs migrated to infect Toyota!
GM remains an also ran afaic, many notches down the shopping list. Inflated prices and then shell-game tactics at the dealers = no change. Ford is getting better and C-Fiat is off the chart on all considerations. :sick:
How many cars did Mitsubishi sell last year again? If they don't turn things around quickly they won't even be in the US market anymore so as far as I am concerned they are a non-factor.
You said...
GM gives a 5 yr powertrain warranty to it's products, as opposed to the Japanese' 7yr warranty (some even give 8-10) or the Koreans' massive 10yr warranty.
And that is absolutely false.
Just look at the links again. Toyota doesn't give a seven year powertrain warranty. Even Lexus only gives a six year 70,000 miles powertrain warranty.
The link to Subaru shows they give a five year 60,000 mile warranty not a six year warranty.
The only japanese non-lux make that does give a warranty longer then five years is Mitsubishi but again who really cares about Mitsubishi.
I liked Mitsubishi as a brand back in the 80s and 90s they had lots of interesting cars that were good alternatives to the other Japanese brands. Now the only thing they have interesting is the upper end Lancers and the EVO.
Well, the new vehicle warranty for my 2010 Lacrosse says;
"......Buick backs your new vehicle with its no-deductible, Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty. The entire vehicle is warranted for repairs, including parts and labor, to correct problems in materials or workmanship, for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first (except normal maintenance). The warranty covers towing to the nearest Buick dealership, and there is no deductible for warranty repairs during the warranty period. The warranty transfers automatically with vehicle ownership during the warranty period."
However, Mitsubishi's and Hyundai's says that the Audio systems, amps, nav systems dvd players or cd changers are only covered for 3/36.
Furthermore, the refrigerant charge was only good for 1/12.
Again, my warranty covers EVERYTHING (except normal wear items) for 4/50, and the powertrain for 5/100.
Was offered Malibu LS's all thru past year in the $18's. If this was bad pricing, then Accords and Camry's are in the what, $17's? I'll go price an Accord 4 cyl auto now for kicks.
Was offered Malibu LS's all thru past year in the $18's. If this was bad pricing, then Accords and Camry's are in the what, $17's? I'll go price an Accord 4 cyl auto now for kicks.
Can't imagine you'd get much of a car for $18k regardless if it's an Accord, Camry, or Malibu. Heck, a Civic can easily go for nearly $20k. Chevy.com shows the Malibu starting at $21,800. Granted, I didn't build one or look at rebates etc. Accord is $21k. Would have to look at standard equipment to get any kind of apples to apples comparison.
with some fine new products, including their all-electric i-MiEV. A new smaller SUV with AWD is in the works and the continuing success of the new Lancer and Sportback Lancer, and Outlander SUV. Eclipse and Galant are not selling real well, true.
So it's not true that nobody cares about Mitsubishi. You could really say that someone like me really doesn't care about Toyota. That statement would be true for all intents and purposes. There's always gonna be people like myself who appreciate good and interesting and exciting and fun to look at and drive cars. Mitsu fits that bill nicely. Indeed my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS has performed flawlessly and that car is the car I want to drive the most. Out of all cars made on the face of the earth today. That is the one. And I am a happy owner of one of those Lancer's. Life is good. I'm not worried about Mitsubishi staying around. I read all of their press releases and they're staying for the Long-Haul.
They just won an award for excellence in design for their new i-MiEV all-electric car from the Japanese Automotive Hall of Fame. They're doing just fine. Too many dorks in the U.S. are severely corn-fused as to what a good car is and is not and that's the real problem here. I'm serious.
Mitsubishi relies on it's parent Mitsubishi Company to keep its automotive company going through thick and thin. As of now their CEO states they're staying in the U.S. market. I'm pleased as punch to know that, car-nuts. :shades:
I think the pricing difference for the Malibu represents the uncertainty that, regardless of how good the car is, that the parent company will still be a viable concern in a year or two.
The last time Mitsubishi had anything worth considering was the early Diamantes and the 3000GT. The Eclipse is something a doting father buys for his daughter and the Evo is the darling of boy racers who don't know how to modify a Civic.
I'd buy a LaCrosse in a New York second. I'll wait until I have my Caddy paid off and surprise my wife. Can I still get a LaCrosse in that striking Sapphire Blue Metallic like her current ride? I got to see my first 2010 LaCrosse in the wild Friday after work. This one was a light metallic silver. What color is your car? Do you have the CX,CXL, or CXS?
Always get the CXS/Super. Much much better than the others.
Get the CXS Super, the touring package, and ambient lighting.. Don't get the Xenon lights/HUD - don't work much better and are more expensive to replace). Skip all of the other options.
I have a friend who bought a 2009 Civic over the summer. I think it was an EX-L model? Leather seats, sunroof, alloys, etc. I think it's fully loaded except for Nav. He said it ended up costing him about $20,000, out the door, with tax, tags, title, everything.
And I remember last year, one of my officemates bought a 2008 Accord. I think he got a total stripper model...LX sedan, I want to say. IIRC it was around $20K. And for a stripper, it wasn't bad. Still had an automatic, ABS, folding rear seat. I tihnk it had a pull-down armrest back there too. Nice sound system. He also bought it late in the year though, like August I think. And within a few months decided he wanted more car, so he traded for a fully-loaded 2009 V-6 model.
In my opinion, the Accord is more car than the Malibu. Not to say the Malibu is a bad car...I think the current model is pretty good. But the Accord has just grown up so much it's crazy! I'd expect to pay more for an Accord than a comparably equipped Malibu...even without the perceived quality adantage/resale value of Honda.
Midnight blue is very dark. I wonder if saphire blue is more medium. I had something like that on a 300 rental with a light tan or beige interior, it was actually pretty sharp looking.
In my opinion, the Accord is more car than the Malibu. Not to say the Malibu is a bad car...I think the current model is pretty good. But the Accord has just grown up so much it's crazy! I'd expect to pay more for an Accord than a comparably equipped Malibu...even without the perceived quality adantage/resale value of Honda.
I agree. I'm not a Honda homer, but my dad's 09 Accord EX-L v6 is unbelievably nice for what he paid for it. He got it for 26k, and the only thing it doesn't have is Nav. The powertrain is unbelievably smooth, and the fit-n-finish is flawless for a car in that price range. I don't think the Malibu is in the same league, but that's my opinion.
I get a kick of the Chevy commercial that pokes fun of Honda because they make lawnmowers. I guess GM just doesn't get it, I think Honda puts more effort into a lawn mower than GM does into a car.
On a serious note, the fact that Honda makes great products in every category, whether it's a lawn mower, generator, outboard marine engine, jetski, motorcycle, and ATV, or whatever else they make is very impressive. I've driven honda's 225hp outboard that is basically the same 3.5 v6 found in an Accord and it's unbelievable how smooth and composed it runs and it can easily handle running full throttle at over 6000 rpm for hours at a time. It doesn't even sound like it's working. That's why you almost always see nothing but Honda's powering any government agency boat.
I think you're right about that. I found this pic of a blue LaCrosse (warning...HUGE picture!) Kind of medium/dark, but nowhere near midnight. And seems to have sort of a glow to it. Lemko, is this the color of your wife's LaCrosse?
Comments
My understanding is that they were actually planning to build a limited run - from parts already stamped \ assembled in stock & still IN OZ. Planned for installation in G8s that will not now be built & exported to the USA.
Specifically, I’d guess, those parts [ hood, front bumper, grill, etc ] that would be the same for left or right hand drive. . .
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009/large-passenger/holden/commodore/exclusive-- - pontiac-g8-revived-in-australia-16339
- Ray
G8 GT driver. . .
I thought all of those were turned in under the "cash for clunkers" program?
GM Board Votes to Keep Europe's Opel (AutoObserver)
Is the symbol for OPEL with a horizontal lightening bolt really dorky looking? Or is it just my impression of it and others think it looks modern, cool, up-to-date?
I assume the other is VAuxhall with the bird going through the circle. It looks like an old Pontiac hood ornament from the 50s.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ah, it's the "Zeppelin" Opel logo from 1937. link
I always thought it looked like some kind of logo that you'd see in a low-budget 1970's sci-fi movie. Maybe Roger Corman designed it? :P
It's only natural though. Without Opel GM is practically doomed.
The irony is GM's. If Audi were GM they would have *retained* each of those 5 company names, putting out rebadges of the A3, A4, A5, A6, A8, S4, R8, Q5, Q7, TT, etc. under each name, for a total of over 40 models. They would have 5 sets of redundant dealerships who competed with each other. Then their reps would come on Edmunds and claim that the brand structure did not add any cost to their operation and that they brought in more buyers in different demographics that way.
German leaders and labour unions had favoured a sale, to Canadian car parts maker Magna, as the best way to save German jobs as it included a guarantee that no German factory would be closed."
German fury over GM Opel U-turn (BBC)
Okay, if you say so. It's been a while since I've sampled an A4 2.0T, but I had a coworker that owned an A3 and it was a very nice car, definitely premium in my book. I guess small = non-premium? Back when I owned a 2000 Jetta TDI the interior quality and fit-n-finish absolutely shamed my grandpa's 2000 Park Ave. I don't think you'll ever find a door seam/panel gap in a VW/Audi that you could put a finger in. I could nearly put my thumb into some of the gaps on that Park Ave.
My wife's 07 GP is nearly as bad, nothing lines up right and the gaps change as you walk around the car. Truely pathetic. Are things changing? I'm still not convinced.
Two months ago, Mark LaNeve, at the time G.M.’s vice president for United States sales, said quality issues at the assembly plant in Kansas City, Kan., were holding up delivery of the LaCrosse. In an e-mail message, Randal Fox, a Buick spokesman, said, “The issues are minor (mainly fit and finish), but we want to make sure the cars are right before they’re shipped.” Sounds like more of the same to me.
@tlong: LMAO so true...
It's a bit easy to see just how, uh, confident (or not) GM is with the longetivity of it's cars isn't it?
Ironically, Ford has probably one of the worst warranty's in the market, yet according to several sources (CU, JD Power, etc), their reliability is better than GM and Chrysler overall and is approaching Toy/Honda levels. That's not to say their cars are better, as reliability doesn't always equal desirability.
We are setting a really really bad precedent here with the things we have allowed, even helped, GM to do. Not to mention, have paid for through the nose with taxpayer money. Banks and corporations will forever expect to be given a free pass by the government whenever they get into trouble, and really with what we did for GM and Chrysler (and AIG) why wouldn't they?
It will certainly keep me out of GM and Chrysler products for life, although I may be tempted by the 500 Abarth next year if that makes it here.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
GM should've been allowed to fail on it's own. Same with Chrysler. Neither has really done me so well that I would cry many tears over their demise. I have purchased several Fords though and would miss them a lot more.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
May the best car win... :shades:
Regards,
OW
Um - what exactly is so easy to see
that leads you to that conclusion?
- Ray
Apparently 'easy to con'.....
There are recent cases such as the botched release of the first Camaro that was plagued with problems. The LaCrosse would have been the same except they admitted they needed to hold it up to fix some "fit and finish" issues.
Axing the G8 was brilliant, continuing 5 brands and cloaking the "war of the clones" (Eqinox/Terrain/SRX - Acadia/Traverse/Enclave), speaks with a forked tongue from my pov.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
Regards,
OW
So, what Japanese company gives a 7, 8 or 10 year warranty? And if you buy a 2 yr old used Korean car, do you get to keep the warranty?
There you go
Scroll down to the warranty tab about 2/3s of the way down.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda all give 3 year 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a five year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.
The same as Ford by the way.
Corrosion warranty is the same across the board. Ford gives a longer road side assistance program then anyone else.
I just added Subaru in there for the legacy. They have the same warranty as all the others.
link title
Luxury car comparison all the Japanese makes and Caddy.
None of them have a 7 year warranty.
They all have six year 70,000 mile power train warranties but caddy is five year 100,000 miles.
Depends on how you drive if it is better to have the one extra year or the 30,000 miles.
It's true that Hyundai-Kia's 10/100 powertrain warranty drops to 5/60 for second owners, but that's still in line with the other Asian companies' nonluxury models.
Obviously the warranty company is the only one with real skin in the game. Sure if CR gets something really wrong they might get a dinged reputation or lose a few subscribers but they won't lose any real revenue.
Your using the same ridiculously idiotic argument that idiots used before to claim Big 3 resale values were almost or just as good as foreign cars. They kept pointing to the lease guides that supposedly could predict "resale value" because the banks leasing guides had "skin in the game" as you say.
So why did Chrysler and GM/GMAC lose so much money in their financial divisions? The leasing values were supposed to be infallible? Why did they stop leasing cars? It is because they were falsely predicting artificially inflatedly high values for big 3 vehicles, just like the appraisers of houses were providing falsely inflated appraisals of homes. It's all a big fraud.
JD Powers is nothing but a paid for advertisement and is 100% worthless, also, they are often dead wrong.
CR is the only scientifically sound source of reliability information, and has been historically accutate with real people's real experiences.
MSN autos is worthless too, as they seem to follow JD POwers pay-for-performance ratings method. I don't want the spin, I want the truth, and CR is the only one I trust.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Maybe it's driver's like me, that drive their vehicles hard that require foreign quality. If Big 3 cars need to be babied to survive, I'm not signing up for one anytime soon.
So far the only lemon I've owned was one from Chrysler's (PRE DAIMLER) days in the mid 90's.
And yes, Korean brands warranties get cut in half when transferred to a second owner. But we're not talking used here are we? :shades:
This is from warranty week in 2004:
In the year just ended, automotive experts say roughly 16.68 million new vehicles were sold in the U.S. Warranty Week projects domestic U.S. auto warranty claims of roughly $7.9 billion, meaning an average of just under $476 in claims per vehicle sold in 2003.
Using the warranty claims and accrual rates observed earlier in 2003 for each manufacturer, and applying those rates across a full year's sales, Warranty Week expects General Motors Corp. to spend roughly $537 on claims per vehicle. Ford Motor Co. will spend around $541. DaimlerChrysler AG will spend around $628. Their weighted average will be around $560 per vehicle across all their brands and product lines.
Japanese imports, meanwhile, will average only $226 per vehicle in warranty claims, with Toyota/Lexus at $233 and Honda/Acura at $216 per vehicle sold in the U.S. Deservedly, these automakers are perceived to be manufacturers of high-quality vehicles that experience relatively few warranty claims. But not everything they make is top-rated, and not everything made in Detroit is at the bottom of the rankings. What's surprising is how wide the gap is between actual and perceived quality.
warrantyweek
Here is a more recent article on warranty costs and if Warrantyweek's calculations are correct, the domestics as of 07, still spend nearly 3 times as much on warranty claims per vehicle than Toy/Honda.
Granted I still don't think it's a complete apples to oranges comparison as I'm sure GM/Ford/Doge commercially used diesel trucks etc. probably skew the numbers a bit. Regardless, interesting numbers to chew on and I'm sure Lemko will say the differences are due to the Asian auto refusing claims. LOL
Interesting that Toyota's warranty costs per car shot up into 07 coinciding with the new Tundra and Camry which both had teething issues from what I've read.
The quality perceptions still favor the Asians hands down but the recent huge issue at T will no doubt make a big difference when the issue is disclosed on the acceleration recall. The T response smells of GM-type con-artist denial at the moment. Didn't any of these companies remeber the huge brand goodwill J&J got relating to the 1982 Tylenol scare? Sheesh! Look's like the GM accountants that lost their jobs migrated to infect Toyota!
GM remains an also ran afaic, many notches down the shopping list. Inflated prices and then shell-game tactics at the dealers = no change. Ford is getting better and C-Fiat is off the chart on all considerations. :sick:
Regards,
OW
You said...
GM gives a 5 yr powertrain warranty to it's products, as opposed to the Japanese' 7yr warranty (some even give 8-10) or the Koreans' massive 10yr warranty.
And that is absolutely false.
Just look at the links again. Toyota doesn't give a seven year powertrain warranty. Even Lexus only gives a six year 70,000 miles powertrain warranty.
The link to Subaru shows they give a five year 60,000 mile warranty not a six year warranty.
The only japanese non-lux make that does give a warranty longer then five years is Mitsubishi but again who really cares about Mitsubishi.
I liked Mitsubishi as a brand back in the 80s and 90s they had lots of interesting cars that were good alternatives to the other Japanese brands. Now the only thing they have interesting is the upper end Lancers and the EVO.
"......Buick backs your new vehicle with its no-deductible, Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty. The entire vehicle is warranted for repairs, including parts and labor, to correct problems in materials or workmanship, for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first (except normal maintenance). The warranty covers towing to the nearest Buick dealership, and there is no deductible for warranty repairs during the warranty period. The warranty transfers automatically with vehicle ownership during the warranty period."
However, Mitsubishi's and Hyundai's says that the Audio systems, amps, nav systems dvd players or cd changers are only covered for 3/36.
Furthermore, the refrigerant charge was only good for 1/12.
Again, my warranty covers EVERYTHING (except normal wear items) for 4/50, and the powertrain for 5/100.
No "exceptions"
Not understanding the bad pricing thing
Can't imagine you'd get much of a car for $18k regardless if it's an Accord, Camry, or Malibu. Heck, a Civic can easily go for nearly $20k. Chevy.com shows the Malibu starting at $21,800. Granted, I didn't build one or look at rebates etc. Accord is $21k. Would have to look at standard equipment to get any kind of apples to apples comparison.
So it's not true that nobody cares about Mitsubishi. You could really say that someone like me really doesn't care about Toyota. That statement would be true for all intents and purposes. There's always gonna be people like myself who appreciate good and interesting and exciting and fun to look at and drive cars. Mitsu fits that bill nicely. Indeed my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS has performed flawlessly and that car is the car I want to drive the most. Out of all cars made on the face of the earth today. That is the one. And I am a happy owner of one of those Lancer's.
They just won an award for excellence in design for their new i-MiEV all-electric car from the Japanese Automotive Hall of Fame. They're doing just fine. Too many dorks in the U.S. are severely corn-fused as to what a good car is and is not and that's the real problem here. I'm serious.
Mitsubishi relies on it's parent Mitsubishi Company to keep its automotive company going through thick and thin. As of now their CEO states they're staying in the U.S. market. I'm pleased as punch to know that, car-nuts. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Get the CXS Super, the touring package, and ambient lighting.. Don't get the Xenon lights/HUD - don't work much better and are more expensive to replace). Skip all of the other options.
And I remember last year, one of my officemates bought a 2008 Accord. I think he got a total stripper model...LX sedan, I want to say. IIRC it was around $20K. And for a stripper, it wasn't bad. Still had an automatic, ABS, folding rear seat. I tihnk it had a pull-down armrest back there too. Nice sound system. He also bought it late in the year though, like August I think. And within a few months decided he wanted more car, so he traded for a fully-loaded 2009 V-6 model.
In my opinion, the Accord is more car than the Malibu. Not to say the Malibu is a bad car...I think the current model is pretty good. But the Accord has just grown up so much it's crazy! I'd expect to pay more for an Accord than a comparably equipped Malibu...even without the perceived quality adantage/resale value of Honda.
I still haven't seen a LaCrosse in its natural habitat yet. Just what we saw at the auto shows.
I agree. I'm not a Honda homer, but my dad's 09 Accord EX-L v6 is unbelievably nice for what he paid for it. He got it for 26k, and the only thing it doesn't have is Nav. The powertrain is unbelievably smooth, and the fit-n-finish is flawless for a car in that price range. I don't think the Malibu is in the same league, but that's my opinion.
I get a kick of the Chevy commercial that pokes fun of Honda because they make lawnmowers. I guess GM just doesn't get it, I think Honda puts more effort into a lawn mower than GM does into a car.
On a serious note, the fact that Honda makes great products in every category, whether it's a lawn mower, generator, outboard marine engine, jetski, motorcycle, and ATV, or whatever else they make is very impressive. I've driven honda's 225hp outboard that is basically the same 3.5 v6 found in an Accord and it's unbelievable how smooth and composed it runs and it can easily handle running full throttle at over 6000 rpm for hours at a time. It doesn't even sound like it's working. That's why you almost always see nothing but Honda's powering any government agency boat.
PS: you forgot to mention Asimo, currently one of, if not the, best human-like robot out there.
I completely forgot about ASIMO.