Hope they beefed up the trans output shaft.... Weren't they failing in early stock Camaro SS's and only designed to handle roughly what the stock 6.2 was putting out.
Speaking of the G6, I am fairly certain the transmission has a flaw in it. 2008 4cyl G6. As it always, since new...shifts hard into the same 2nd or 3rd gear. Now, luckily I have a lease, bummer part is, someone else will inherit this problem. I am no way taking a hit for GM's problem. I have told the dealer, they really didn't see an issue. or choose to ignore it. They told me they would have to take it apart. No codes came back. So, I have told the dealer recently when asked, that everything is fine. I want out, but after I trade the thing in, I will tell them then about the issue. sounds mean, but its not my problem, its theirs. It's not like I didn't give them chances to help me out. That way they'll know. But, chances are... they'll sell it without revealing any issues. I am sure this happens all the time. I am done taking it to the dealer. Let what ever happens... happen.
It is pretty sad when I am not the only person at the dealer asking to get out of the car. Same salesmen, same day.
I had a 1979 Oldmobile Ninety-Eight Regency that went 148K miles before being demolished by a box truck. I would've kept my 1988 Buick Park Avenue which had 108K if the opportunity of buying my wife's aunt's 2005 Grand Marquis didn't materialize. I sold it to some kids and I still see it occasionally.
I usually trade my cars because I like the newer styles or just got tired of staring at the same dashboard all the time. It isn't because the cars are worn out and/or troublesome. I see us keeping the 2005 Buick LaCrosse a long time as my wife is a lot more sensible when it comes to buying cars. If it were up to me, she'd already have a sleek new 2010 LaCrosse CXS. I'll probably keep the Grand Marquis a long time just to see if it truly is as tough as those Crown Vic taxis and police cars.
You can't say that the Escalade is a clone of the Tahoe and then say that the ES350 isn't a clone of the Camry.
The ES350 doesn't even get a unique powertrain compared to the Camry but the Escalade does. They both get different sheet metal, different suspension tuning, better interiors and more sound deadening.
If the Escalade is a clone so is the ES350.
I would say that the highlander and the RX350 are also clones except the highlander does get a third row while the RX3500 does not.
“ . . .shifts hard into the same 2nd or 3rd gear.. . . I have told the dealer, they really didn't see an issue. or choose to ignore it.”
This is [ unfortunately ] one of the key issues for GM going forward. In my experience, the quality of their dealer service is [ ahem ] spotty.
I have had similar transmission issues. In once case, it was diagnosed & fixed in one visit – though out of service for 3 business days [ awaiting parts], with loaner provided.
In the other case, I had to ‘go around’ the dealer. Problem fixed – but a bit more hassle to arrive at the resolution.
GM still seems unable to reliably enforce a reasonable standard for the service experience in their dealers.
I have heard, though, that appliances tend to be less long-lived nowadays, because they use lighter, cheaper components that take less electricity to run.
I've gotten to where I hold off buying because I know the newer items you buy are usually junk. Maybe its the China factor? I think this less life, lousier quality stuff is another reason inflation is being misstated by the government (besides changing the index compositions!). If an item costs less, but lasts half the former length, then prices didn't really decrease, they were flat at best. But uncle counts it as a pure price decrease in calculating inflation figures.
A closer dealer downtown Cincy wouldn't even look at the car with its continual problems, since they didn't sell it. Nice customer service there, folks!!!
I had that problem with an Oldsmobile that was leaking water inside. After the selling dealer closed no other dealer wanted to touch it.
Not a problem to me. It may be an orphan now, but, its still an excellent car. At $12K out of pocket cheaper than a comparable Honda, the Aura was one of the best car deals I ever got. Even if it's virtually worthless when I trade it off some day, I still came out ahead.
I used to work at the Delco Moraine plant in Moraine City that was close to the old Frigidaire Plant. I had a buddy that worked for Chrysler Airtemp at the time as well - making HVAC equipment. When the "Big Frig" closed down, some of their people transferred into our plant. I left GM in 1978 and moved out of Dayton.
The name was bought by one of the conglomerates. White-Westinghouse may be the name. The last time I noticed a Frigidaire product it had the same interior layout as the others in the group. I kept on looking.
Edit: further search came up with an Ohio company (it must be good then). Search says sold by Lowes and Best Buy. I'll have to take a look next time I'm in Lowes (I dislike Best Buy).
Heck, Smith & Wesson still markets a .38 revolver to women as a Lady Smith. Anyway, when I bought my current place, the previous owner left behind a Lady Kenmore washer and dryer in probably the same ugly shade of green you described. I think these ones were even older - perhaps the mid 1960s. I have a Whirlpool washer and dryer I bought in 1997 that are still holding up. Of course I don't know how long they'll last with my wife who constantly uses them. Guys do laundry maybe once a month, but women constantly do it!
Whirlpools are really easy to take apart to service. I replaced control box on washer along with the dogs for the one-way agitator. On dryer replaced heater element and control box as well. Washer finally lots its transmission last month. 18 years and about $200 in parts to extend life. Now have energy super efficient Cabrio washer dryer by Whirlpool--electronic controls.
We had a Kenmore Elite top-loader die in 07. It was purchased in 99. When I mean die, it nearly caught the house on fire. Something must have locked up, because all I remember is smelling and seeing smoke bellow from the laundry room. I ran in there and the washer was making a loud sound similar to what an electric motor makes when it can't turn, along with the sound of wiring burning and melting. I immediately unplugged it. It was pretty scary. 8 years is not a long time, and their is no excuse for it being a fire hazard, but it did have a harsh live. It probably averaged a couple loads a day and it was moved to 4 different states during that time. It died within a week of our move from Kansas to Illinois, so maybe the last ride it had in a Semi jarred something.
Anyway, we replaced it and the drier with LG Trom front-loader/dryer and they have been great so far. Having two daughters ages 11 & 7 we easily do 10-15 loads a week.
In college I used to work for a Whirlpool packaging plant and it was amazing all of the different parts whirlpool made that were rebadged as other brands. Such as Kenmore, Kitchen Aide, and JennAir etc. Now Whirlpool also owns Maytag/Amana.
Mid-60s is a little too early for that awful avocado shade that became so popular (for a while). My recollection is the color started being used in cars in 1968 and immediately afterward in appliances.
In 1969, we had our family kitchen remodeled. My mother let me choose between 2 colors of ceramic tile to fill the space between the counter backsplashes and the cabinets above -- white or avocado. I picked white. She still lives in the same house and the kitchen is basically unchanged; can you imagine how awful avocado would look today?
The next big color for appliances was "harvest gold," which came out in the early or mid-70s. I was looking at some photos of one our old apartments in 1978 -- this was after I got married -- gaudy gold-patterned wallpaper in the dining room, orange shag carpeting, and that harvest gold refrigerator. No wonder we make fun of that decade!
".....The Terrain and Equinox were never top sellers although the redesigns make the old models worthless, afaic. The CR-V (#7 of 20) and RAV-4 (#9 of 20) sold a combined 179,000 units YTD Oct. No chance that GM can come close to those numbers for quite some time. "
That # equates to about 18,000 units/month for the Toyonda's. Last month, GM sold about 11,000 TerEquinox's. I'm not sure how many of the old models sold month to month, but if those 11,000 units are selling at a better price than the old models (probably because they are selling faster than the old models) then that is a good thing.
"......That says that the U.S. manufacturers need to work extremely hard to make cars that people will buy regardless of the hot air blown at the consumers. The best cars are winning! "
It's a well known fact that the public "discovered" that the Japanese models were better during the gas crises' in the '70's. GM has a lot of bad taste to dissipate amongst the buying public, so it remains to be seen if the "Best Cars" are truely winning. So far, I'm not aware of many (if any) car rags comparing small CUV's yet.
"..... But selling a guised up Equinox under the name SRX is a problem in my book. "
Don't get me wrong, as I have yet to pore over either model in person, but if the people who are looking at the SRX are impressed by it, and are buying them then it isn't a bad thing.
Here is a comment on a test drive of the 2010 SRX from autoblog:
".....The SRX uses a unique platform that combines bits and pieces from the Theta platform that also underpins the Chevrolet Equinox and the Epsilon II platform that sits beneath the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Company officials insists that it mainly uses components found on no other GM vehicle. "
That is a far cry from a "gussied up Equinox", don't you think???
GM has a lot of bad taste to dissipate amongst the buying public, so it remains to be seen if the "Best Cars" are truely winning.
Considering that the 2 U.S. car companies when bankrupt, I think the point you make is mute. Post C-11 is still open, so to speak, therefore we will see as time goes by post-failure for GM.
I'll keep posing the top 20 month to month to see if the Asian domination in cars relinquishes. The 2 Chevys are doing well and have done so despite the Impala's obsolescent design, (IMHO, of course!). The fact remains that B.C./A.C (C=C11), the Malibu and the Impala have not won vs the Accord/Camry.
"......The 2 Chevys are doing well and have done so despite the Impala's obsolescent design, (IMHO, of course!). "
In looking at some local ads, it appears that the Impala LS is advertised for a mere $500 over a similarly equipped (LS) Malibu. That may explain it's brisk sales.
".....The fact remains that B.C./A.C (C=C11), the Malibu and the Impala have not won vs the Accord/Camry."
As far as the "best car" winning, if you go just by sales, does that mean a 1988 Taurus was better that the '88 CamCord?? C-11 complicates things as far as perception, and can hold back sales.
In looking at some local ads, it appears that the Impala LS is advertised for a mere $500 over a similarly equipped (LS) Malibu. That may explain it's brisk sales.
I'm willing to bet the Impala is a fleet queen, especially now the Grand Prix is gone. To get a retail sale, they have to give them away, to many better sedans on the market.
Regarding Equinox and SRX, I've seen both of them in the same building. I know GM claims they are on different platforms and the SRX does have a wheelbase about 1 inch less than that of the Equinox. Still, the vehicles are remarkably similar in their overall shapes, drivetrain, and interior details. Obviously, the SRX is more blinged out.
And we'll have to see if those initial sales numbers turn out to be harbingers of the future. Some cars do well right after introduction or redesign, then quickly fall out of favor.
That is a far cry from a "gussied up Equinox", don't you think???
Uh I'm not sure company officials are worth trusting at all. Well, all I can say is park those 2 next to each other and you'll see.
I got lucky since the import dealers they got near workplace put the 2 in the same row in the showroom (the SRX is offered for a heart stopping $80k, what the heck...)
C-11 complicates things as far as perception, and can hold back sales.
True it does to some degree. A lot of people I know stay away from GM due to 3 issues: 1. The fact that they took the bailout money 2. They're concerned with the prospect of the company under government control. 3. Lousy reliability (which according to CR isn't exactly fixed yet, as almost all GM models score below average for quality and reliability)
The other issue is still the need of a better car to compete with the more established models. It takes more than being competitive to Camcord, it needs to beat them. Tough homework ahead...
".....(the SRX is offered for a heart stopping $80k, what the heck...) "
Well, either you were looking at an Escalade, or the "import dealer" was pulling the wool over your eyes. The most I can option out an SRX for on Edmunds is $51K:
".....3. Lousy reliability (which according to CR isn't exactly fixed yet, as almost all GM models score below average for quality and reliability)"
Well, according to CR 20/48 GM models scored average or better. Nothing to write home about, for sure, but a FAR CRY from ALMOST ALL score below. Check your facts.
At least one thing with GM reliability. The way it is going now we are getting a clearer picture of what the problem has been. It seems to me that the new models are doing well while the old ones are more or less where they've been. It's the same guys putting them together so it looks to me that the terrible earlier models were not designed with reliability in mind. If GM is reaching a point where all new models will be designed with reliability in mind that will serve them well.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
The other issue is still the need of a better car to compete with the more established models. It takes more than being competitive to Camcord, it needs to beat them. Tough homework ahead...
You bring up a really good point. Trying to match the competitors is a losing game. Given GM's other negatives as you mentioned, GM should be trying to *clearly beat* its competition. Nobody who went to Toy/Hon is going to go back to GM if their vehicle is just as good.
That's what makes what Hyundai has done so impressive. They put out a vehicle like the Genesis and it is really outstanding at its price point.
GM should take a lesson from Hyundai. As the product quality and reliabilty improves they should offer a free extended bumper to bumper warranty, not just drivetrain, to prove their point and reduce customer reliability fears. They should also price more aggressively to bring customers into the showrooms. I think those two actions cost Hyundai some initial profitablity, but they are paying big dividends in volume growth and customer conquests. It could also serve as a way GM is thanking America for bailing it out.
The GAO report says that for GM to repay its indebtedness in full, it would have to achieve a market capitalization of $66.9 billion, nearly 20 percent greater than the company was ever valued.
Neil Barofsky, the special investigator assigned by Congress as the watchdog for the $700-billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, said at a conference in Washington D.C. that while GM and Chrysler may pay back some of the approximately $65 billion extended to them, the U.S. probably won't ever see full payback.
"Tens of billions of dollars are likely to be lost on the automotive bailout," Barofsky said flatly.
This is not the first time Barofsky has expressed the same sentiment, and the downbeat opinion has been supported by other recent assessments.
Did that gold wallpaper have fuzzy velvet? I recall my mother had both a harvest gold refrigerator and oven. We also had avocado green shag carpet in the living room. Most frightening is the clothes Mom bought for us kids every fall for school from the Sears & Roebuck catalog. My wife's 5th grade picture shows her wearing a goldenrod turtleneck and purple beads! The '70s was truly a frightening decade for fashion!
As was pointed out above the SRX tops out a little over $50,000 and its main competitor the RX350 is a clone of the Toyota Highlander. They use the same platform, same drivetrain and nearly all the same components. The Highlander just has different suspension tuning, some different bodywork(both are incredibly ugly IMO) better sound deadening and a nicer interior plus a third row.
"General Motors said Monday, in releasing its first financial statement since emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy on July 10, it would make its first loan repayments to U.S. and Canadian taxpayers next month. At that time, it will pay back a total of $1.2 billion.
LOL no, no the $80k info was just for additional fun fact, nothing more. I'm currently assigned abroad for 2 years, so a Cadillac and Chevy are considered imports here (you did notice that I said imports dealer right?). Even the RX, called Toyota Harrier here, starts at $55k for a 4 cyl. version (that's right, there's a 4cyl version here). My eyes elmost popped out when I looked at the stickers. :P
Sure GM's gonna start paying debt, but the fine print makes me wanna laugh: "The company also says it will begin repaying $6.7 billion in U.S. government loans with a $1.2 billion payment in December. It could pay off the full amount by 2010, five years ahead of schedule, but the money will come from funds loaned by the government."
Getting loans to pay for loans, digging one hole to fill another.... :sick:
And did you notice that of the $65 billion loaned given to them, the amount they have promised to repay is only $6.7 billion, barely 10%?
And with losses like the one during the last quarter, which included the huge sales bump from C4C, how will they even make these measly $1 billion payments??
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No not getting loans to pay back loans. There aren't any new loans. They are taking money they were already loaned and instead of using that money to fund continuing operations they are using it to pay back part of the original loan.
They are generating more cash flow then the thought they would so they don't need all the money they were loaned.
Let me explain it in simple terms.
You want to start a business and you figure XXX,XXX amount of dollars to start the business and fund continuing operations till you get enough cash flow out of the business to cover you nut.
You take out a 500,000 dollar loan and the first 200,000 covers start up costs and you figure to use the rest to keep the business going till you get off the ground.
You start the business up and start doing better then you expected much better in fact. Why keep that full 500,000 dollars hanging over your head? You have $300,000 left over and you won't need all of it. Take $100,000 and pay down the principal now to save on interest charges.
Keep the other $200,000 for now while you continue to make regular payments on the loan. Next quarter if things are still going good make another $100,000 lump sum to save on interest charges again.
Now you have $100,000 left over but next quarter isn't as hot as the previous too so you skip that lump sum payment while continuing to make regular payments. The next quarter is also pretty good so you make another $50,000 lump sum payment.
Now a year down the road instead of having nearly the full $500,000 dollar loan hanging over your head, as the your regular payments would have been nearly all interest the first year, you have less then $250,000 left to pay off. On a 15 year loan at some slightly high interest rate of 7.9 you would pay $40,000 in just interest the first year.
Making just one $100,000 lump sum payment in January would shave over four years off the loan schedule. Another $100,000 dollars the next quarter would take another four years off and knock about $10,000 in interest charges off for the first year.
You still have the $50,000 dollars as a cushion at the end of that first year too.
By making the lump sum payments you pay less then $100,000 in interest of the course of the loan instead of $350,000 in interest.
This repayment is a joke, designed to make Americans think that GM is making progress, IMO, within 5 years GM will dump its pension plans on the U. S. taxpayer, terminate its contracts with the UAW, and move all of its operations to China. Chrysler will cease to exist, as John McCain stated. That will leave Ford as the only surviving American car company, and I plan to give them all of my support.
No fuzzy stuff on the wallpaper, but still was incredibly gaudy. I'm in the photo with a blue striped long-sleeved shirt and light blue slacks feeding my 6-month-old son.
And did you notice that of the $65 billion loaned given to them, the amount they have promised to repay is only $6.7 billion, barely 10%?
Ack, I didn't notice the dot next to 6... :sick:
@Rover: I understand, thanks for the explanation. However, in the end it's still (in another way) using loans to pay for loans. How are they gonna pay for the government loans after that? Not to mention, as Nippononly pointed out, GM only promised to pay back roughly 10% of the bailout. What's next, more loans? :sick:
GM is running in circles and it can't fool anyone. People aren't stupid, Fritz...
Your example is fine for a company starting out that needs a loan to get started, with the strong expectations that they will make a profit in the near-future.
GM however is a company that used many, many billions to stay alive and then went bankrupt. The new GM is only a slightly pared down version of the old, with the same product, and business models and methods as the old GM. It is not just about short-term cash-flow problems. GM has long-term profitably problems. You need profits in addition to cash-flow to be viable. GM has cash-flow because they have a loan to cover their better than expected losses. Big deal. If GM continues losing $ then cash-flow again becomes a problem.
After seeing the positive forecast "spins" inherent in prior and necessary for current executives to keep their jobs, I have no faith in any projections of profit by these guys. What the U.S. public is being fed is PROPAGANDA. Propaganda to 1) make people feel that GM is succeeding, so that people will have a positive attitude of GM, and 2) to take the heat off of the people in office who voted for these massive giveaways, that have little prospect of ever getting payback.
If I start a business, can I get a government loan for $10M? And I promise to pay them back $1M in May, and probably $1M every 6 months after? I make no guarantees though, as it will be tough going, with me and my family making decent salaries and bonuses in this company. If I can't pay it back, I'll just have to list all the economic circumstances beyond my control which kept my business from being successful. Oh well, at least that $10M government loan kept me and my family off the unemployment rolls, and rippled through the economy. :P
So there we go - the road to success for every American. Mr. Obama give every family a $10M loan! We'll all go out and hire everyone, and we'll all go spend a lot, and be happy forever after. We need to be fair - give every American citizen the same deal. :P
Comments
I've heard that too - "durable" goods aren't so durable anymore. I think it's more cost cutting than trying to meet Energy Star ratings though.
One bonus thing about all the complaints about GM pushrods and "badge engineering" is that engine swaps are more bolt up mods:
Hennessey HPE700 LS9-Powered Chevy Camaro 700 as in HP. (Straightline)
It is pretty sad when I am not the only person at the dealer asking to get out of the car. Same salesmen, same day.
I usually trade my cars because I like the newer styles or just got tired of staring at the same dashboard all the time. It isn't because the cars are worn out and/or troublesome. I see us keeping the 2005 Buick LaCrosse a long time as my wife is a lot more sensible when it comes to buying cars. If it were up to me, she'd already have a sleek new 2010 LaCrosse CXS. I'll probably keep the Grand Marquis a long time just to see if it truly is as tough as those Crown Vic taxis and police cars.
The ES350 doesn't even get a unique powertrain compared to the Camry but the Escalade does. They both get different sheet metal, different suspension tuning, better interiors and more sound deadening.
If the Escalade is a clone so is the ES350.
I would say that the highlander and the RX350 are also clones except the highlander does get a third row while the RX3500 does not.
link title
This is [ unfortunately ] one of the key issues for GM going forward. In my experience, the quality of their dealer service is [ ahem ] spotty.
I have had similar transmission issues. In once case, it was diagnosed & fixed in one visit – though out of service for 3 business days [ awaiting parts], with loaner provided.
In the other case, I had to ‘go around’ the dealer. Problem fixed – but a bit more hassle to arrive at the resolution.
GM still seems unable to reliably enforce a reasonable standard for the service experience in their dealers.
[ sigh ]
- Ray
Not a mechanic . . .
I've gotten to where I hold off buying because I know the newer items you buy are usually junk. Maybe its the China factor? I think this less life, lousier quality stuff is another reason inflation is being misstated by the government (besides changing the index compositions!). If an item costs less, but lasts half the former length, then prices didn't really decrease, they were flat at best. But uncle counts it as a pure price decrease in calculating inflation figures.
I had that problem with an Oldsmobile that was leaking water inside. After the selling dealer closed no other dealer wanted to touch it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Regards:
Oldengineer
Regards:
Oldengineer
Frigidaire = GM
Philco = Ford
Airtemp = Chrysler
Kelvinator = Nash/American Motors
I have a Frigidaire refrigerator I bought 2 years ago. Have no idea who now makes them. Probably some plant south of the border these days.
Edit: further search came up with an Ohio company (it must be good then).
Search says sold by Lowes and Best Buy. I'll have to take a look next time I'm in Lowes (I dislike Best Buy).
Type: Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Aktiebolaget Electrolux
Address: 6000 Perimeter Drive, Dublin, Ohio 43107, U.S.A.
Telephone: (614) 792-4100
Fax: (614) 792-4776
Web: http://www.frigidaire.com
Employees: 1,428
Sales: $3.5 billion (1996 est.)
Incorporated: 1916 as Guardian Refrigerator Company
SIC: 3524 Lawn & Garden Equipment
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Anyway, we replaced it and the drier with LG Trom front-loader/dryer and they have been great so far. Having two daughters ages 11 & 7 we easily do 10-15 loads a week.
In college I used to work for a Whirlpool packaging plant and it was amazing all of the different parts whirlpool made that were rebadged as other brands. Such as Kenmore, Kitchen Aide, and JennAir etc. Now Whirlpool also owns Maytag/Amana.
top 100e
Also, they deemed the Honda Accord as the most reliable car in the UK over the last decade. Is it surprising that Asian cars occupied the top 10 list.
gizmag
I'm not clear on how accurate the data sample is as cars with extended warranty's may not be included in the results, whatever that means.
In 1969, we had our family kitchen remodeled. My mother let me choose between 2 colors of ceramic tile to fill the space between the counter backsplashes and the cabinets above -- white or avocado. I picked white. She still lives in the same house and the kitchen is basically unchanged; can you imagine how awful avocado would look today?
The next big color for appliances was "harvest gold," which came out in the early or mid-70s. I was looking at some photos of one our old apartments in 1978 -- this was after I got married -- gaudy gold-patterned wallpaper in the dining room, orange shag carpeting, and that harvest gold refrigerator. No wonder we make fun of that decade!
That # equates to about 18,000 units/month for the Toyonda's. Last month, GM sold about 11,000 TerEquinox's. I'm not sure how many of the old models sold month to month, but if those 11,000 units are selling at a better price than the old models (probably because they are selling faster than the old models) then that is a good thing.
"......That says that the U.S. manufacturers need to work extremely hard to make cars that people will buy regardless of the hot air blown at the consumers. The best cars are winning! "
It's a well known fact that the public "discovered" that the Japanese models were better during the gas crises' in the '70's. GM has a lot of bad taste to dissipate amongst the buying public, so it remains to be seen if the "Best Cars" are truely winning. So far, I'm not aware of many (if any) car rags comparing small CUV's yet.
Don't get me wrong, as I have yet to pore over either model in person, but if the people who are looking at the SRX are impressed by it, and are buying them then it isn't a bad thing.
Here is a comment on a test drive of the 2010 SRX from autoblog:
".....The SRX uses a unique platform that combines bits and pieces from the Theta platform that also underpins the Chevrolet Equinox and the Epsilon II platform that sits beneath the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Company officials insists that it mainly uses components found on no other GM vehicle. "
That is a far cry from a "gussied up Equinox", don't you think???
Considering that the 2 U.S. car companies when bankrupt, I think the point you make is mute. Post C-11 is still open, so to speak, therefore we will see as time goes by post-failure for GM.
I'll keep posing the top 20 month to month to see if the Asian domination in cars relinquishes. The 2 Chevys are doing well and have done so despite the Impala's obsolescent design, (IMHO, of course!). The fact remains that B.C./A.C (C=C11), the Malibu and the Impala have not won vs the Accord/Camry.
Regards,
OW
In looking at some local ads, it appears that the Impala LS is advertised for a mere $500 over a similarly equipped (LS) Malibu. That may explain it's brisk sales.
".....The fact remains that B.C./A.C (C=C11), the Malibu and the Impala have not won vs the Accord/Camry."
As far as the "best car" winning, if you go just by sales, does that mean a 1988 Taurus was better that the '88 CamCord?? C-11 complicates things as far as perception, and can hold back sales.
I'm willing to bet the Impala is a fleet queen, especially now the Grand Prix is gone. To get a retail sale, they have to give them away, to many better sedans on the market.
And we'll have to see if those initial sales numbers turn out to be harbingers of the future. Some cars do well right after introduction or redesign, then quickly fall out of favor.
Uh I'm not sure company officials are worth trusting at all. Well, all I can say is park those 2 next to each other and you'll see.
I got lucky since the import dealers they got near workplace put the 2 in the same row in the showroom (the SRX is offered for a heart stopping $80k, what the heck...)
True it does to some degree. A lot of people I know stay away from GM due to 3 issues:
1. The fact that they took the bailout money
2. They're concerned with the prospect of the company under government control.
3. Lousy reliability (which according to CR isn't exactly fixed yet, as almost all GM models score below average for quality and reliability)
The other issue is still the need of a better car to compete with the more established models. It takes more than being competitive to Camcord, it needs to beat them. Tough homework ahead...
Well, either you were looking at an Escalade, or the "import dealer" was pulling the wool over your eyes. The most I can option out an SRX for on Edmunds is $51K:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2010/cadillac/srx/101181425/optionsresults.html?actio- n=2
Base price of a base SRX is about $3500 less than an RX:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/08/review-2010-cadillac-srx/
".....The SRX starts at $34,115 while the base RX comes in at a more sobering $37,675 with delivery."
Well, according to CR 20/48 GM models scored average or better. Nothing to write home about, for sure, but a FAR CRY from ALMOST ALL score below. Check your facts.
How much will the fact that a huge chunk of bailout money will NEVER be repaid affect their performance?
Regards,
OW
You bring up a really good point. Trying to match the competitors is a losing game. Given GM's other negatives as you mentioned, GM should be trying to *clearly beat* its competition. Nobody who went to Toy/Hon is going to go back to GM if their vehicle is just as good.
That's what makes what Hyundai has done so impressive. They put out a vehicle like the Genesis and it is really outstanding at its price point.
What makes you so sure that will NEVER happen???
The GAO report says that for GM to repay its indebtedness in full, it would have to achieve a market capitalization of $66.9 billion, nearly 20 percent greater than the company was ever valued.
When Pigs Fly the F-22
Neil Barofsky, the special investigator assigned by Congress as the watchdog for the $700-billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, said at a conference in Washington D.C. that while GM and Chrysler may pay back some of the approximately $65 billion extended to them, the U.S. probably won't ever see full payback.
"Tens of billions of dollars are likely to be lost on the automotive bailout," Barofsky said flatly.
This is not the first time Barofsky has expressed the same sentiment, and the downbeat opinion has been supported by other recent assessments.
Regards,
OW
Toyota, Honda, Ford, Hyundai and others did not need bailouts and salvation by the likes of our financial experts because they make better products.
This is a good chart that explains the huge task GM faces to succeed.
2010 Predicted Reliability
Regards,
OW
As was pointed out above the SRX tops out a little over $50,000 and its main competitor the RX350 is a clone of the Toyota Highlander. They use the same platform, same drivetrain and nearly all the same components. The Highlander just has different suspension tuning, some different bodywork(both are incredibly ugly IMO) better sound deadening and a nicer interior plus a third row.
Still, the new GM reported a loss of $1.15 billion in its first 83 days of operation. However, that was an improvement from last year.
"
GM Will Make First Government Loan Repayments in December (AutoObserver)
Sure GM's gonna start paying debt, but the fine print makes me wanna laugh:
"The company also says it will begin repaying $6.7 billion in U.S. government loans with a $1.2 billion payment in December. It could pay off the full amount by 2010, five years ahead of schedule, but the money will come from funds loaned by the government."
Getting loans to pay for loans, digging one hole to fill another.... :sick:
loanedgiven to them, the amount they have promised to repay is only $6.7 billion, barely 10%?And with losses like the one during the last quarter, which included the huge sales bump from C4C, how will they even make these measly $1 billion payments??
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They are generating more cash flow then the thought they would so they don't need all the money they were loaned.
Let me explain it in simple terms.
You want to start a business and you figure XXX,XXX amount of dollars to start the business and fund continuing operations till you get enough cash flow out of the business to cover you nut.
You take out a 500,000 dollar loan and the first 200,000 covers start up costs and you figure to use the rest to keep the business going till you get off the ground.
You start the business up and start doing better then you expected much better in fact. Why keep that full 500,000 dollars hanging over your head? You have $300,000 left over and you won't need all of it. Take $100,000 and pay down the principal now to save on interest charges.
Keep the other $200,000 for now while you continue to make regular payments on the loan. Next quarter if things are still going good make another $100,000 lump sum to save on interest charges again.
Now you have $100,000 left over but next quarter isn't as hot as the previous too so you skip that lump sum payment while continuing to make regular payments. The next quarter is also pretty good so you make another $50,000 lump sum payment.
Now a year down the road instead of having nearly the full $500,000 dollar loan hanging over your head, as the your regular payments would have been nearly all interest the first year, you have less then $250,000 left to pay off. On a 15 year loan at some slightly high interest rate of 7.9 you would pay $40,000 in just interest the first year.
Making just one $100,000 lump sum payment in January would shave over four years off the loan schedule. Another $100,000 dollars the next quarter would take another four years off and knock about $10,000 in interest charges off for the first year.
You still have the $50,000 dollars as a cushion at the end of that first year too.
By making the lump sum payments you pay less then $100,000 in interest of the course of the loan instead of $350,000 in interest.
OK - Chrysler's singular example in the 80s aside...
Ack, I didn't notice the dot next to 6... :sick:
@Rover:
I understand, thanks for the explanation.
However, in the end it's still (in another way) using loans to pay for loans. How are they gonna pay for the government loans after that? Not to mention, as Nippononly pointed out, GM only promised to pay back roughly 10% of the bailout. What's next, more loans? :sick:
GM is running in circles and it can't fool anyone. People aren't stupid, Fritz...
GM however is a company that used many, many billions to stay alive and then went bankrupt. The new GM is only a slightly pared down version of the old, with the same product, and business models and methods as the old GM. It is not just about short-term cash-flow problems. GM has long-term profitably problems. You need profits in addition to cash-flow to be viable. GM has cash-flow because they have a loan to cover their better than expected losses. Big deal. If GM continues losing $ then cash-flow again becomes a problem.
After seeing the positive forecast "spins" inherent in prior and necessary for current executives to keep their jobs, I have no faith in any projections of profit by these guys. What the U.S. public is being fed is PROPAGANDA. Propaganda to 1) make people feel that GM is succeeding, so that people will have a positive attitude of GM, and 2) to take the heat off of the people in office who voted for these massive giveaways, that have little prospect of ever getting payback.
If I start a business, can I get a government loan for $10M? And I promise to pay them back $1M in May, and probably $1M every 6 months after? I make no guarantees though, as it will be tough going, with me and my family making decent salaries and bonuses in this company.
So there we go - the road to success for every American. Mr. Obama give every family a $10M loan! We'll all go out and hire everyone, and we'll all go spend a lot, and be happy forever after. We need to be fair - give every American citizen the same deal. :P
May the best car win!
Regards,
OW