GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    So do I. I dearly miss it. :cry: I shouldn't have been so hasty to replace it. If I had insane money, I'd have had it repainted professionally. It was a beautiful shade of blue and you can't find plush luxurious seats like those in any new car. It was great on gas and had a lot of pep! Stupid...stupid...stupid! :(
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Heck, I should've taken you up on your offer when that idiot light came on and you initially thought about getting rid of it. Down here in MD, it would've qualified for antique plates, and would never have to see the inside of an inspection or emissions station.

    I know you're kicking yourself over getting rid of it, but that Grand Marquis of yours is a nice car and should last a long time.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, and who knows, I'd get to see it every once in a while like a puppy who grew into too big of a dog to keep in a city apartment and now lives on a rural relative's farm.

    If what I see of police cars and taxis is true, I imagine that Grand Marquis will last a good long time. If only it didn't have that ugly roof!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    If what I see of police cars and taxis is true, I imagine that Grand Marquis will last a good long time. If only it didn't have that ugly roof!

    Someone in my Mopar club had a Dodge Mirada, with one of those fake convertible roofs. It was starting to come loose, and on his way to the Carlisle Mopar show one year, the thing tore completely off on the interstate! Unfortunately, the area underneath the top wasn't finished off, so it wasn't necessarily an improvement. :blush:

    One of my friends has an '04 Crown Vic LX. I forget how many miles he has on it...I want to say around 155,000? I remember he finally surpassed my Intrepid. We were both planning on driving our cars till they dropped, and were both curious to see which would last the longest. He had a '95 Grand Marquis GS prior to this car, and I think finally gave up on it around 175,000 miles. He had bought it with around 55,000 on it, and had it for about 5 years. Admittedly, it was getting tired. Check engine light was on, and it was burning oil. Valves were clattering. It was also starting to rust, at the seam where the top of the C-pillar joins the roof. There's a little rain gutter there, but these cars tend to be poorly painted in that spot. So maybe having that aftermarket roof on your car might be a blessing in disguise!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Perhaps, but I'm talking a LONG, Long time ago. When anything Buick or Oldsmobile had unbelievable power DESPITE the weight.



    Regards,
    OW
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Th author concludes that the Lacrosse has "worldly appeal" because the Chinese like it? First of all, they designed it but we have yet to see if they will buy it in significant numbers. Secondly, being liked by the Chinese will not, I don't think, impress folks in LA, Seattle, or New York of its "worldly appeal".

    It will be interesting to see if ES350 sales take a dip, since the CXS trim of this thing is pitched squarely at the Lexus.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "Gm is living on our taxpayer money.They just have insurmountable costs and can never ever be profitable.Why dont they just quit?Here`s a link which supports that:"

    Del, the link does NOT support that. It's only the ramblings of a bunch of crybabies who think there should be ZERO taxes, and that our country, states and municipalities will be protected by God knows who (maybe the Chinese will protect us from being invaded by the Mexicans---oh wait, too late for that!!!) This is a statement from the author of the article:

    ".....But that's only if, and we repeat if, the two companies fail before 2011 and don't repay their government loans. That's a big 'IF', if you ask us, but anyway."

    Why would the person from the auto press say That's a big IF???

    Speaking of the Mexicans, while we would all like our tax dollars back in our pockets, or at least going to something productive, if you MUST spend the money, why NOT give it to an American corporation, as opposed to a bunch of illegals?

    BTW I have a 2010 Lacrosse. Thanks for your 12 grand. I think I'll push it off a cliff and send you the carcass.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Anything over 3K pounds with a 4 banger GM engine is a no-go for performance. Adequate for the Buick set, I suppose. "

    Wait a minute. Here's the first drive:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/23/2011-buick-regal-first-drive/

    A comment;

    ".....The front-drive Regal will arrive next spring carrying a normally aspirated 2.4-liter four-cylinder packing 182 horsepower (at 6,700 RPM) and 172 pound-feet of torque (at 4,900 RPM) paired with a six-speed automatic that offers a +/– manual shift gate but no paddles. Soon thereafter, the 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injection Ecotec we drove will come on stream, delivering 220 hp (at 5,300 RPM) and a healthy 258 lb-ft. of torque from just 2,000 RPM. If that's not enough, GM officials pledge that a six-speed manual transmission will eventually be offered as well."

    As well as:

    ".....During our brief drive, we found that the 2.0T delivers plenty of muscle with minimal torque steer, spooling up quickly and offering good passing power. GM says the combination should be good for a 0-60 mph time in the mid seven-second range (a couple of tenths quicker than a TSX), a claim that strikes us as totally believable – if not a mote pessimistic. "
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Under 8 seconds 0-60 would be great, as long as the engine is smooth, it will be a good combo. I think I'd take it over the 3.0v6, for the torque alone
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    As some rags have it, the Lacrosse beats the ES350 in most points of interest. Hopefully for Buick, the customers agree.

    Anyone have data to show current sales comps between the two?

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Good passing power??? Against what?

    Besides, I read that review today. Those were test cars and Opels. We'll see a real slow car in actuality, I'm sure. Heck, a 2001 Regal GS stock does the quarter in low 15 seconds.

    Let's see if they have the guts to introduce the Euro suspension. Given 3,300 lbs. I estimate the US version will weigh, it will need a motor with 275 ponies and 275 lb.ft. to compete in it's class. With 220/258, the car would need to weigh 2,800 lbs. to beat the competition.

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Anything over 3K pounds with a 4 banger GM engine is a no-go for performance.

    Well how fast do you want grandpa to go? :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Guess I'll have to crosspost this over here:

    steve_, "Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)" #14359, 22 Nov 2009 11:06 am

    Grandpa goes 101. :shades:
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    These young ones wouldn't know what to do behind an Oldsmobile high compression 455 that pulls like a locomotive.

    Regards:
    OldCEM
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I believe I read that October sales, the ES sales were up signioficantly. Maybe the dealers are working with stronger incentives, but for the same price as a Buick, I'd pick the Lexus in a heartbeat. Better dealer service, better reputation and better resale. :shades:
  • gregagrega Member Posts: 31
    GM could NOT turn Pontiac into the "excitement" division with the GTO or G8, so what makes anyone at GM think they can turn Buick into a performance division... its just a stupid idea and should be a Chevy because thats where GM performance is "recognized" in the market.

    This is clear demonstration of that the new GM still doesn't know what the hell they are doing... looks like they are just throwing anything up on the wall to see what sticks... hardly a well concieved strategic plan... MGMT should be SHOT!!!

    The new Buick should be positioned as "entry luxury"... not 4-cylinder stick shift sudo-performance box... dumb, stupid, waste of our money!!!!!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Agreed. heck I'd rather choose a Hyundai genesis at the same price, at least I know for sure that Hyundai will still be around for a while.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yecch!!! Buying a Hyundai is like marrying a homely girl! In the case of a Genesis, an ugly girl with some money. Of course she'd be around a while. She has nowhere else to go! Like that ugly broad, I'd have to get ferociously drunk before I'd even approach a Hyundai!
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    I would definitely take a hyundai over a GM anyday. I almost leased one back in 06, but got an Accord instead. I was impressed! It was a Sonata. I have 08 G6, and I am soooo not impressed by the GM 4cyl engine in it. Will not lease a GM car again. Love the car though, its features, design. But, look to get my Honda back, such as a TSX, or a VW. Atleast, then I can have pride in its value.

    Never was a GM fan, gave them a chance, they blew it. I would give them a C- at this point for the whole experience. But, 3yrs is short enough for a car, but long enough when your not truly happy with it. Spring, might be a little more greener for me to get out the lease.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    As far as I'm concerned, GM is both my first and last choice when buying a car. I'm never in the market for a 4-cylinder anything. I just don't trust those revvy little engines over the long run. Gimme a big six or V-8 any day!

    If you're going for something else, stick with the Honda or TSX. Don't let the VW siren's song leave you dashed upon the rocks! A pretty face can hide an evil mind. If your GM experience was merely disappointing, a VW experience will have you on your knees begging for mercy and repenting your sins.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Yecch!!! Buying a Hyundai is like marrying a homely girl! In the case of a Genesis, an ugly girl with some money. Of course she'd be around a while. She has nowhere else to go! Like that ugly broad, I'd have to get ferociously drunk before I'd even approach a Hyundai!

    Of course, buying a GM vehicle is like that hot chick at the club. You get her to your apartment and you find out she has rolls of fat under her tight dress, she belches when she moves, and a couple of years late (if you knew her that long) she has gained 50lbs and become diabetic. :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I dunno, I've had my 1989 Cadillac Brougham for nearly 21 years and she's like a hot supermodel you met years ago, married, and is still beautiful, has an awesome personality, is fantastic in bed, is super-intelligent, rich, and a gourmet cook! :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    I'm never in the market for a 4-cylinder anything. I just don't trust those revvy little engines over the long run. Gimme a big six or V-8 any day!

    I used to have the same opinion of 4-cyl engines, but that is changing. My Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima is pushing 300,000 miles, on its original engine...a 2.4 I think. Now it is on tranny #2, but the first one puked up a long time ago, around 35,000 miles.

    I forget how many miles are on my uncle's '03 Corolla now, but probably over 180,000.

    And even though my recently-departed 2000 Intrepid was V-6, it was a tiny 2.7 that really had to rev for the power. Peak hp came at around 5900 rpm, and peak torque around 4900. I discovered though, that it would take off faster if you held it to around 4900. Take it to where it hit peak hp, and it would upshift almost immediately. Where's the fun in that? :P

    So I wouldn't be afraid of these smaller engines as far as durability goes. But they do take some getting used to, if you're not used to revving an engine to get to the power.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    Yes, I can understand wanting a fast engine, lol. I truly want a fast car after this experience. I do plan to look closely at the TSX.

    Regarding a VW, I already lease an 08 VW and it has been problem free. Along with my previous lease before it. No issues. I just don't get to drive that car. :(
    But, I can understand your reasoning behind your points. I guess it sorta like me, when I can't see me driving a GM, for the very same reasons you stated, but with a different brand. And look where it got me, the very issues that kept me from moving to a GM is happening to me. Lesson learned, to each their own right?

    I will not be back, and no "new" pretty face GM is going to convince me otherwise.
    See, that is how I see GM, just a pretty, glamorous appeal, but no true soul behind it. I don't feel my car has a true soul to it, and certainly have not connected to it like I did with my Honda. Big mistake, driving away from that accord.

    Sometimes, I feel like getting a baseball bat and just beating the crap out of the engine,.. Honestly! Is this what we deserve GM?

    Lesson: take your time when buying any car. Make sure all is well.

    We all like our certain brands, but GM and its lies and bashing is not adding class and appeal over any other brand...it just admits guilt. It does not have our interests at heart. only $$.

    Buy what you want...just my personal opinion about it all.
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    4-cyl engines doesn't have enough power for the fun to drive. I6/V6, twin-turbo or even V8 twin-turbo must to have for me:-)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Recently-departed? Have you pulled the plug on the 'Trep? Hmmm! Now's the time to be eyeing-up a 6.1 Hemi SRT8 or that awesome G8 GT! My co-worker loves her 5.7 Hemi Charger. She talks about it like I do my Cadillacs.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Too funny! Here's a look a some that returned their "hot chicks at the club"!

    Since GM launched its marketing program that offered buyers the ability to take a special $500 cash incentive or be given the option to return the vehicle within 60 days, GM has sold 222,000 vehicles. Of the 222,000 vehicles sold, 653 customers opted for the money-back guarantee ability over the cash incentive, and of those 193 have returned their vehicles for their money back.

    GM’s heavily advertised campaign has generated significant media buzz and blended well with its simultaneous campaign, “May the best car win.”

    What wasn’t heavily advertised however was the fact that the money-back guarantee program was only available for buyers that opted out of an optional $500 discount from the purchase price.

    The $500 incentive returned a 99.7% take rate, with only 653 customers choosing the added security of the money-back guarantee over the extra cash. Of the 653 who opted for the ability to return their new GM vehicles for no charge, 193 handed the keys back in and walked away with their money back.


    So, 193 returned their mistakes back to the club...the rest like plastic chicks that decay real fast! :blush:

    Those 460 lost $500 on their decision to opt out of the discount while taking those supposedly "hot chicks" home.. :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Recently-departed? Have you pulled the plug on the 'Trep?

    Yup. As of about 20 minutes ago. The insurance company called and said it's a total. The local Cadillac dealer does have a couple of slightly-used G8 GT's, priced around $27-28K I think.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, I married my "hot chicks" and I'm extremely happy with them! These girls are showing very little signs of decay. They are as solid as a mountain made of solid granite.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What's the really awesome G8? Is it a GTX or something like that?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It looks like the end of the road for Saab, just as the long-overdue new flagship 9-5 was in sight. Swedish supercar maker Koenigsegg's effort to buy Saab has fallen apart, leaving GM with few options beyond shutting down the money-loser.

    Another "hot chick" bites the dust!

    Regards,
    OW
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    "I just don't trust those revvy little engines over the long run."

    The "long run"? Pretty much anybody can make a 4-cylinder engine which will run for well over 200,000 miles these days. Aside from a few well-documented instances of poor parts suppliers, the engines themselves are all reasonably trustworthy.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I never thought of Saab as a "hot chick." More like the unusual-looking chick that was attractive in her own way. Still, they have a following.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    seeing a new black lacrosse in the parking lot. Noticed they were all 3 liter for $35,500 to 40,500 before the $599 scotchguard pkg. Isn't it cheaper to just get leather?

    Since I don't have a Lexus to trade in, the $2800 sales tax is quite a bite.

    Suprised by Ford
    I recently rented a Fusion V6 for a 400+ mile one way. I thought it was a 4 cyl until I checked under the hood. It had delivered me 29.82 mpg on the 395 miles between top offs. About 20% city, 80% hwy. It changed my mind about needing a 4 cyl to get 30 mpg combined.

    A huge difference between it and my SC3800 is the reason I thought it was a 4 cyl. It took the Ford V6 about 1500 more revs to feel like the 3800 under hard accel, though they are probably comparable in max HP. The Fusion engine was noisy except at idle, and revs were 2300 at 69 mph to the Buick's 1900 revs at 69 mph. The Buick would have matched the mpg about evenly.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    I think that really hot one is the GXP? And no, I probably won't be getting one of those!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't think I could live with a four-cylinder engine that long. It's like having a pet turtle. They live a long, long time, but they're kind of a boring pet. The longest-lived engine I personally knew about was the 350 V-8 in a friend's 1970 Chevrolet Impala. It went 700K miles. Another friend of mine has a 1988 Cadillac Brougham with 300K+ miles on it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh, the GTX was a Plymouth. I thought that one we tried out at GM Carlisle was pretty nice. Was that just a six?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't like the facelift on the Fusion. I thought the old car was better-looking. Heck, I had a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and it delivered about 29 MPG with a 3.8 V-6. My wife's 2005 LaCrosse also has a 3.8 and delivers great fuel economy.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM fails again --- even at selling a failing brand!

    It was SOOOOO important to have all of those divisions like Saturn, Hummer, Saab....
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I had a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and it delivered about 29 MPG with a 3.8 V-6. My wife's 2005 LaCrosse also has a 3.8 and delivers great fuel economy.

    My wife's current 07 GP company car with the 3.8 returns about the same mileage as her previous company car an 06 Ford 500 with the 3.0 Duratec with CVT, right around 22-24 mixed driving. The only real difference I noticed was the 3800 was much quicker to about 30mph and the Ford was quicker past 40. The CVT did a good job of keeping the Duratech pegged at it's power peek when floored. Neither engine is what I'd consider refined, but the Duratech would pull nicely beyond 4k rpm where the 3800 falls flat on it's face past 4000rpm. Personally I'd avoid either engine as their are much better v6's available.

    My wife is very upset that her employer has decided she has to keep her POS Grand Prix until around 80k miles. Ugh, we just want it to be gone.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, what does she expect her company to give her - a Mercedes S-Class? I figure getting A car at all is quite a perk. What else do they offer? She must've liked something about the Grand Prix if she chose it in the first place.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    You've obviously never driven a good 4 cylinder. I don't think there is another person on earth who would call a Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, Celica, WRX or Mitsu EVO a "boring pet" ;)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    What else do they offer? She must've liked something about the Grand Prix if she chose it in the first place.

    We were relocated and someone was nice enough to order the GP for her. The previous year ('06), she ordered a 500 that she picked over an Impala and GP, but she had to leave the 500 behind at her replacement back in Kansas. I don't drive the GP much, but I'm starting to get tired of having to listen to her complain about it. She hates it.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    You've obviously never driven a good 4 cylinder.

    Considering Lemko prefers GM products, that should answer your question.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Dieselm I'm not sure if its any consolation or not, but my father retired an 04 Grand Prix a while back. I think he put 220 or 240k miles on it and it gave him little trouble (cracked intake manifold about 2 months after he got it and a transmission hiccup for the last 100k which he never got fixed). But man what a dull, boring drive huh? I remember it wasn't very well put together either and the rear seats wer ethe most ergonomicly screwed up seats I've ever sat in. Oh, and the HAL computer with its 2 bit graphics was laughable. But it was appliance reliable I guess.

    Be aware of the S/C ones though. GM recalled all of them earlier this year due to the potential for this:

    image

    This happened to a buddy of mine from college. His was a S/C Grand Prix.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Mmmkay, maybe I should scratch that supercharged Park Ave I just found off of my list of potential Intrepid replacements. :surprise:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    But man what a dull, boring drive huh? I remember it wasn't very well put together either and the rear seats wer ethe most ergonomicly screwed up seats I've ever sat in. Oh, and the HAL computer with its 2 bit graphics was laughable.

    LOL, The graphics are comically bad and yeah, the seats are awful. After an hour in it my back is killing. The fit-n-finish would be considered poor even if were built in a 3rd world country. Just taking a walk around the car, you can see obvious panel gap issues. Nothing lines up right. The trunk lid gap is probably a 1/4 inch wider the passenger side vs drivers side. I probably can stick my finger between the front bumper and headlight assembly. The top of the driver's door sticks out about 1/4 inch from being flush with the passenger door. It's almost comical it's so bad.

    The interior is equally bad. This car is only two years old with 55k miles on it and the finish of several radio button have worn off, so when the lights are on the light bleeds through and shines every where. Come on, that is sad. Imagine how bad it will be by 100k. The buttons will be completely translucent. LOL.

    But it really isn't that surprising, my Suburban was just as bad. Well the seats were fairly comfortable, but the fit-n-finish was non-existent. Everything pretty much felt like it would fall apart at anytime, and much of it did.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Mmmkay, maybe I should scratch that supercharged Park Ave I just found off of my list of potential Intrepid replacements. :surprise:

    A friends parent's mid 90's or so Regal almost burned their garage down. It had a non-supercharged 3800 and it caught on fire right after starting the engine. BOOM!. IIRC, it was a intake issue that caused the fire.

    Ask them to take 50% off and throw in a box of marshmallows.

    Andre, their is a recall on the 3800's so as long as the recall has been performed, is shouldn't be an issue. I didn't realize how big that recall was, but it covered like 1.4mil cars. Why settle on a P/A when their are so many better cars to be had.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Why settle on a P/A when their are so many better cars to be had.

    Eh, I just like 'em because they're fairly big, roomy, and comfy, and I always liked the looks. FWIW, here's that supercharged '98 Park I found. Nice looking car, but at $6495 kinda pricey IMO. Wonder if they'd take more like $3500 or so? I can't imagine a 12 year old Buick, no matter how nice, being worth all that much.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Yeah, it looks to be pricey, but from the pics, it looks extremely clean. Looks like it's been well taken care of. If you like the looks, you probably owe it to yourself to drive it and see if you like it.

    It's hard to tell from the pics, but the interior looks to be in exceptional shape. Certainly might be worth some heavy negotiating.
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