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Comments
Thin paint? Are you sure? Or was it new technology in paint that PPG, and perhaps other sources, said would work. This also was the period of water-based paints that didn't give off those evil polluting volatile carriers that were organic based. Paint quality suffered in some cases. Deteriorating clearcoats are one symptom. I believe PPG also said that two coats would work instead of 3 for the color coat.
I can get a picture of a black Honda from about 1996 with deteriorating clearcoat. It belongs to a friend of ours.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The idea of pulling a Ferris Bueller and putting it on jack stands and leaving it in drive with a brick on the pedal has crossed my mind. LOL.
Just like the early touch screen and HUD setups the technology was just too new. I would swap as much of that out for an aftermarket radio or a full carputer system. Probably pull the stock wheel out and replace it with an aftermarket one too. No way all those buttons would still work after 20 years.
I think just about any car painted in the United States between approximately 1988-1988 is prone to that peeling. I've seen Accords do it too, and figured that's how you can tell the difference between the US-made Accords and the Japanese Accords!
My '89 Gran Fury had been repainted before I bought it, because the original paint had been peeling. And when I got rid of my '88 LeBaron, its paint was just starting to peel. It was around 10 years old at the time. Cars older than that, if they were metallic, would tend to fade as the little flakes got hot and burned the paint, and over time they'd start to crack and crows-foot, but the paint would usually hold tight. And if they were non-metallic, they'd usually buff back out without any trouble, although if you brushed up against one, you might get some of that paint on you! Whenever I scrape snow off my red Silverado or my midnight blue NYer, the snow pics up a hint of the color of the car. My 5th Ave is always garaged though, so its paint has held up much better.
Of course for really hideous designs you can't hardly beat 1958.
Wow!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yeah, I remember my wife's uncle having like a '89 or '90 Dakota that the clear coat started peeling within a few years. It was bad.
Well you definitely can't reduce mileage that way, but if you lift the drive wheels it should work. Granted, you'd get an ABS malfunction light and you'd have to deactivate the traction control. On some of the older cars with first gen traction control it probably wouldn't work as you couldn't turn off the T/C on some cars.
1970 was kind of a threshold year though, as it was about as good as things would get in many respects, until years later. For 1971, some of the high compression engines started getting their power cut, and it seemed like just about any car that debuted in 1971 or later managed to end up being worse than its 1960's counterpart.
Just as one example, my Mom had a 1968 Chevy Impala 4-door hardtop. My grandparents bought it brand-new, but in 1972 swapped with my Mom. They took her '66 Catalina convertible, that my Dad had trashed pretty thoroughly, and used it as a trade on a new '72 Impala 4-door hardtop. Mom drove that '68 Impala until 1975, when she got a new LeMans coupe. The Impala still looked good...decent paint and vinyl roof, no rust, engine and tranny were fine. But the rear end was starting to go out, and back then, I think people were just sort of programmed into thinking that after 7 years it was time for a new car, whether you really needed one or not. In contrast, I remember how the '72 Impala looked when it was about 7 years old. It was pretty rusty, although the paint was still shiny. The vinyl roof was starting to tear, and I think in 1977 or 1978 Granddad had to do a valve job on the car.
I wonder how long that '68 Impala would've lasted if Mom had just had the rear-end rebuilt?
Amen to that, I couldn't agree more. We can argue about whether "Greed" played a role, but that is exactly what happened to GM, and I am (slightly) sad to say that is more than likely what is happening to Toyota as we speak, unless they do a radical reversal of course in the next couple of years. These companies get so big they forget the customer first, then they forget the product and quality control, and 20 years down the line they wonder where all their customers went......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Some really bad cars in the early 70's. My dad had a '73 Grand Torino that by '78 only had 38k, needed a valve job, was rusted out, and the vinyl roof was all but gone.
We also had a '71 Mustang Convertible, which I thought was cool, but junk. Rust, engine issues, build quality issues. Man, I think the doors came from the factory sagging with the bottom portion sticking out a 1/2 inch from the rear qtr panel.
Seems like some of GMs large cars held up much better than Ford's of those days. My grandpa always had a big Buick that seemed to hold up okay back then.
LOL! Seeing a Buick on the road has been such a rare experience in my neck of the woods for the last 15 years, if I had $1000 for every time I saw one I would be a poor man. Pontiacs would be the same, except for rental GPs and G6s. I do recall that my local Buick dealer still had an unsold '05 Park Avenue on the lot early last year, right before he folded.
I have always thought it would be intriguing to visit these parts of the midwest and east coast outside New York and New England where one actually sees lots of American cars on the road. I should make a trip. It was fascinating when I visited Chicago for exactly that reason - there were actually American cars (not trucks or SUVs) on the road at every corner.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe I just don't notice them. Now that it's on my mind, I'll probably see a dozen or more this weekend on my trek to the family get together.
I remember my grandpa having an early 80's T-bird demo, that the digital dash was broke within a week of being new. My aunt bought an '82 Mustang that literally died on the way home from the dealer. Within 10 minutes of driving it off the lot (my grandpa ordered it for her), it overheated, spewing out black smoke and fried the engine. My Grandma had one of the first Escorts, and it was so bad my Grandpa (a long time ford man) had to threaten lawsuits to get the car bought back, after transmissions and steering rack issues had kept the car at the dealer more than at home. I can go on and on about stories like that. Make me wonder sometimes how Ford is still in business, granted they were very close to bankruptcy in the early 80's. Go figure.
Man, things must really be bad out there! LOL
Who knows, the horn on the turn signal was on a lot of Fords until almost the mid 80's think. Just stupid.
The 255 v8 probably was no worse than GMs 260 and 301 v8s. Those were horribly under powered too, as were many early 80's and late 70's cars. Had a friend with a '79 Cutlass with the 260 and that might be a the slowest car I've ever driven, reliable though, he put like 260k on it. Looked cool with T-tops and the center console shifter and full gauges etc. Another buddy in high school had an '80 or so Trans Am with the 301 and it could barely outrun my '86 Escort with a 4speed. To 40 or so I'd beat him.
Have you ever had the luxury of driving a late 70's or early 80's GM diesel in the Oldmobiles and Cadillac's etc. Man those were slow. Had several of those in my neighborhood growing up. Not long though as everyone dumped them quick. A kid I know took a stop watch for his moms 98 Regency and it was close to 20 seconds to 60. That could get you killed today, at least you'd have some metal around you though.
Even in 2000 people still remembered the GM diesel fiasco. I still remember people asking me why I bought a diesel, getting the usual aren't they unreliable, stinky, and slow.
I remember waiting for the school bus in the winter and our neighbor had a late 70's or early 80's Toronado diesel. If it was under 20 degrees out, AAA was almost always there to give him a jump. Probably wasn't a good car to leave out side during northern Indiana winters.
That might partly be because there were still some recent Diesels like that around at that time! My uncle briefly owned a used 1994 GMC with a 6.5L TurboDiesel, and that thing was stinky, unreliable, and slow. He finally got fed up with it and traded it after about 6 or 7 months, dumping it for the 1997 4.3 Silverado that he still owns.
wouldn't the parts/service industries for the GM cars would continue for decades afterwards?
Did the car have the rain-sensing wipers? Those are sensitive to oily films on the windshield in the area of the sensor. Our 03 has an infrared sensor and needs a clean windshield to work right consistently--and it does. Otherwise, I would suspect a ground problem causing it to cycle when the connection to ground is remade.
>the hvac controls also had a mind of their own
Is this separate from the hot drivers side and cold passenger side? That's an actuator motor that moves the vane for the temperature unless it's in hot weather and AC is in use. In that case it's a low freon charge.
>intake issue at 80k,
That's not very likely since it was fixed during the 99 run of the 3800s. However a few did develop deterioration of the UIM EGR passage or coolant seals on passages to the throttle body. But it is possible.
>blew a head gasket by 90k
A mechanic working on 3800s or anyone on H-body discussions will tell you that's extremely low in frequency. Most likely it leaked around the lower intake seals on the manifold to heads. Usually oil seeps at the ends or coolant leaks around the head to LIM contact and bleeds into the cylinders causing misfires and check engine light or hydrolock if leak continues under pressure after car is stopped. Head gasket to block failures are extremely rare and usually only after overheating.
Did your grandpa buy this car new? Or
usedabused by someone?2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here is one you can talk about, however.
Regards,
OW
Resale needs to be compared with selling price, not MSRP. The Hondas in this area would have been priced above MSRP most of the year because they were considered "special" by the dealers. The Park Avenues would have been discounted as well a factory rebate.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
R.I.P.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Yeah it did, but with the wiper switch on off, the wipers would work occasionally turn on by themselves for a swipe or two.
Is this separate from the hot drivers side and cold passenger side? That's an actuator motor that moves the vane for the temperature unless it's in hot weather and AC is in use. In that case it's a low freon charge.
I don't remember what caused it, but I know it was going be expensive to fix and it was stuck that way year round.
I know what your talking about because I had that happen in my Suburban, but the heat wasn't stuck on all the time. I had to have the actuator replaced along with a damper because cold air was always allowed to enter the passenger compartment. I think the dealer nailed me for like $600 on that fix.
IIRC, the intake and head gasket issue happen close to each other. I don't know if it overheated causing the the head gasket or not. That is certainly possible.
I think he bought the '00 used in '01 with like 10k miles on it. I know he bought it from his favorite Buick dealer, but he problems didn't really start until 60k. By 110k it was in really bad shape.
Like AIG? :P
meanwhile, pontiac is still sending me their quarterly performance magazine.
hmm, could there be a "cadillac performance magazine too ?!
I say boycott GM to make the government fail in the car business. That means to boycott the other Fed owned car company, Chrysler. I say this as a concerned taxpayer. Hopefully shoppers of GM cars will feel guilty about buying a GM car now.
Socialism.
The thing is that a great many people already believe that the money was flushed down the toilet. They need no further evidence.Several GM SUV owners at work (and one PT Cruiser owner) have already said to me that when the time comes for replacement, they will avoid Chrysler and GM because of the bailouts.
I don't support or oppose their POV, but I can understand it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wait a minute, so basically you're saying we need to spend money on them so they can return 10% of the money we already spent on them? Blah, no thanks. :mad: Anything taking bailout is a no no in my book.
Well that would depend. Apples and oranges comparison IMO, but if someone loses their job, and they had car payments on a couple of expensive cars, a 400k mortgage and no savings, then yeah, I'd consider that person an idiot. If a family member wants to bail them out that's fine, they are not putting me on the hook for it. Unless of course that family member borrows the money to lend and then defaults on it, raising the cost of borrowing for all of us.
My real problem with the GM bail out is GM has been making stupid decisions for nearly 40 years. During the 30 years I've followed the auto industry GM has continued to over promise and under deliver. Most of the country doesn't like their products and I don't want to be blackmailed to support GM with overly exaggerated job losses due to GM closing up. GM's bankruptcy risk has been an issue for over a decade, when is the last time they had a good credit rating? Just think of how many other ways that money could have been used to better Michigan's economy and that of the US. I do hope it works out now, as we are up to our eye balls in this mess.
And I know many blame GM and Ford' problem on imports, but my god, how bad would our cars be today if the competition would have been kept out or essentially kept out of the market with tariffs and taxes. If GM vehicles were good enough, the consumer would have kept buying them.
Interestingly, the Nytimes had an article about how the University of Michigan saw the righting on the wall in the mid 70's. They realized back then the state wasn't going to maintain it's income status relying on it's manufacturing base. So instead of letting U of Ms budget go down the toilet like the rest of Michigan, the university began pursuing income from private sources and today only 7% of the U of Ms budget comes from the state of Michigan and it's being debated if they will even stay as a state funded school at all. Unfortunately, they seek students from abroad that can pay expensive out of state fees which leaves the many kids from Michigan out, but that has allowed U of M to maintain it's near Ivy league status.