GM News, New Models and Market Share

cooterbfd

A car with a zit on it's forehead that's dying to be popped.

anythngbutgm

I actually though the nose of that thing looked like one of the Roswell aliens... :P

fintail

Toyota still doesn't quite "get" styling, I see.

And the new Lexus supercar looks like a catfish to me...

andre1969

It ain't too purty, whatever it is! But I agree, if it were me, I'd get that thing lanced!

anythngbutgm

link title

Swedish business site di.se has done some numbercrunching, and figured out that GM has lost SEK 35,000,- (eq aprox $ 5,100, at the current exchange rate) on each Saab sold the last 8 years. As many of TTAC’s readers have pointed out in various comments, GM never made money on Saab.

:lemon:

berri

What is pretty these days? I don't expect much of today's stuff to be considered classics in a couple of decades. You're right, Toyota and Honda aren't styling leaders. But geez, Fords look like they have orthodontia and Chevy's look like the got smacked in the mouth. Can we reincarnate Bill Mitchell?

andre1969

You're right, Toyota and Honda aren't styling leaders. But geez, Fords look like they have orthodontia and Chevy's look like the got smacked in the mouth.

I gotta admit though, for some reason, the Ford Fusion appeals to me. If I was shopping for a new car, the Fusion and Altima would probably be the top runners, although if that time comes, I'm going to keep an open mind. Actually, even the current Accord doesn't bother me, style-wise. I think my biggest issue is that it has no identity. From the back it looks like a Saturn L-series to me. The roofline is kind of a BMW ripoff. And the front makes me think a bit of the previous-gen Altima. I don't think it's ugly, but it just doesn't get me hot and bothered, either. But, overall, there's really nothing out there right now that really gets me excited, style-wise. Heck, I was looking around online at used cars today, fantasizing about replacing my aging, yet still-fairly-reliable, 150000 mile 2000 Intrepid, and the only thing that really grabbed me was, of all things, another 2000 Intrepid. It was a fully-loaded ES model with the 3.2, leather, sunroof, half the miles of mine, for something like $4995 asking. Sounds kinda silly though, replacing a 10 year old car with another 10 year old car!

As for that Camry Hybrid posted above, actually the only thing that bugs me is the ill-fitting grille. Plus, it's just too small. Hell, paint it up in Metallic Pea, and would sorta look like Clark Griswold's Wagon Queen Family Truckster. Hey, you may hate it now, but wait till you drive it!

Can we reincarnate Bill Mitchell?

Ooh, I only wish. Or perhaps Virgil Exner...pre-stroke, at least!

garrison16

The Intrepid that you described with a leather interior and a 3.2 liter engine is a
beautiful car.

circlew

This doesn't excite me in the least.



Even if it is a huge improvement over the previous generation, it hardly beats the competition aesthetically.

A 28 percent drop in GM’s U.S. deliveries overwhelmed benefits from lower expenses in the third quarter, tempering the automaker’s announcement that it plans an early start on repaying its government borrowing. Even as GM generated $3.3 billion in cash, it posted a $1.15 billion loss.

GM’s release yesterday of its first financial data since leaving Chapter 11 in July underscored the hurdles Henderson must clear to complete a turnaround. October’s increase in U.S. sales was its first since January 2008, and the biggest domestic automaker hasn’t posted back-to-back monthly gains since 2007.

“They still have to bring people into the showrooms,” said Mirko Mikelic, senior portfolio manager at Fifth Third Asset Management in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “The loss of market share still hasn’t stopped. They haven’t really made a U-turn yet.”

You can't bring savvy shoppers into a showroom with blah products. The Camaro and the 'Vette are the only cars in the Chevy dealer that are worthy of a look afaic.

Without FANTASTIC new products that blow away the competition, I don't see a sustained turnaround at GM, which is 60% Chevy in the good ole' USofA.

Buick will never save them. GMC is a joke. Caddy is a tiny portion of sales so it's really all about China, now, isn't it?

Might as well pack it in over here! :surprise:

Regards,
OW

circlew

I love Howie long with the lawn mower and the "Travers is bigger than the Pilot".

Too bad he doesn't let you know the Hodas will outlast the Chevies and after 6 years, your depreciation with Chevy is a "Traversty".

Commercials with sports commentator Howie Long to showcase Chevrolet vehicles against Toyota and Honda Motor Co. models “are not as good as they should be,” said Wolkonowicz, who is based in Lexington, Massachusetts.

“What they should be doing is letting people know how fabulous GM cars really are,” he said. “It’s not OK to say ‘We’re bigger than the Toyota Highlander,’ because that then glorifies the Toyota Highlander.”

Still buisness as usual. They really are letting the best cars win at the end of the day.

Dear GM:

WAKE UP. THE PRODUCTS SHOULD SELL THEMSELVES! WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET IT???

We are paying for these commercials. At least the CTS commercial has a beautiful woman driving it. Stick to passion. Honda will kill you in practicality. PERIOD.

Regards,
OW

anythngbutgm

Meh, rental fodder...

That has got to be the dumpyest looking rear end of any car on the market right now. Looks inspired by a 1996 Nissan Maxima.

Other than that, the rest of the car, especially the front profile could pass for a camry twin IMO. So while the Toyota haters will call the Camry a pig, this car ain't much different. It just proves the glaring bias out there. :sick:

lemko

...and Harley Earl, but not that impostor that was in the Buick ads a few years back. The real Harley Earl would never stop throwing up if he saw what passed for Buick styling on monstrosities like the Rendezvous.

lemko

Yeah, the Hondas will outlast the Chevies around here...provided you don't drive them in the winter and hit anything sturdier than a plastic garbage can! :P

andre1969

I think the rear end is the Malibu's worst feature. I think it's too flat, and the tail lights just have a look to them, like the stylists really didn't know what to do.

Otherwise, I don't think it's a horrible looking car. You're right though, the front-end does have a bit of a bulge to it, giving it a swollen look similar to the Camry. I think the Camry's look might be exaggerated by where they put the logo, though. It makes me think of a rhino that had its tusk broken off.

lemko

The Malibu, or Chevelle, always seemed to be at a loss for rear styling. The rear of the classic '60s Chevelles always seemed a bit uninspired compared to the full-size Chevrolets. The only years the Chevelle/Malibu had an interesting rear was 1971-72. The 1973 model may also be included.

andre1969

Or even Hal Sperlich. One of the creative geniuses behind the original Mustang, the first Mopar minivans and...wait for it...the 1979 Mopar R-body! :P

lemko

Who designed the downsized 1977-era GM B and C body cars? Were they the last of Bill Mitchell's designs before he retired?

andre1969

Yeah, I thought the 1973 Chevelle/Malibu looked good, with the two round taillights on either side. The 1974-77 models often seemed oddly-shaped, poor-fitting, or a bit of both. I thought they looked good on the downsized '78-83 models, which shared a strong resemblance to the full-sized Caprice.

andre1969

Who designed the downsized 1977-era GM B and C body cars? Were they the last of Bill Mitchell's designs before he retired?

They probably were designed by Bill Mitchell. Or, at least, by a committee that was headed up by him. What year did Mitchell retire? I do remember reading about him talking about the 1980 Cadillac Seville, how people accused him of ripping off Jag. He made a comment along the lines of "Jag? Hell, I ripped off Rolls Royce!! If you're going to rob a bank, might as well go for Fort Knox instead of some kid's piggy bank!"

lemko

I think what killed the rear styling of those cars was the addition of 5-mph bumpers to the rear as well as the front in 1974. The 1973 Impala seems to have better integrated styling compared to the 1974-76s.

lemko

Bill Mitchell had a way with words as well as with styling. He said, "Styling a small car is like tailoring a dwarf!" There's an article on the 1980-85 Cadillac Seville in the current issue of Collectible Automobile. Shame this controversial car was saddled with such crappy drivetrains. It was a really nice car to ride in. It also spawed a few imitators in the 1981-83 Imperial and 1982 Lincoln Continental.

imidazol97

> Camry. I think the Camry's look might be exaggerated by where they put the logo, though. It makes me think of a rhino that had its tusk broken off.

Or a kid's nose with a booger hanging out.

bvdj84

The new camry does look sorta weird. Not sure where they were going with it. The new Malibu does look nice, but have to agree its rear is a bit odd. All flat! Most of the interior is all inherited from is brother and sister cars too. Not that there is anything wrong with sharing. Such as the seats, they are from the Saturn Aura, Pontiac G6. Just add a line of stitching and you have a slightly different look to it. A few of the buttons are also being used from these all models. And, you see similar items used for years, but just different placement. Now mind you, its fine, but all of these features have been used for years. So essientially, you can't exactly say the Malibu is new. I would say the Malibu is based on more old than what would be used to create a new model than most other cars I've seen. I don't see older seats, buttons, etc in say the Camry or the Accord. Though it would be a way to keeps costs down.
GM with that extra money, what did you use it on?
Nothing wrong with what they did, sounds small, but noticed. I would say it was a good move. Though, I think the extra $$ saved should be used to create a much better 4cyl engine. Honda and Camry will most definitely be the better fit in that regard. That engine is pretty stale, and makes you wonder why so many opt to get the V6.

Speaking of V6, the new terrian, heck it gets better mileage than my GM 4cyl engine. My 06 Accord 4cyl got quite a bit better mileage too!! Oh wait, it might be the half lemon of a transmission... :lemon:

circlew

Here's the 2011 Sonata. Only a matter of time...







Sorta blows away the Malibu...May the Best Car Win!!

Regards,
OW

andres3

wow, that sonata looks good, kinda like a Mazda 6 cross bred with the Accord.

2012aveo

Another vehicle for GM to worry about. The Hyundai sort of reminds me of past Lexus ES350's, a car I also like. Based on sales numbers I do not think the general American car buying public find the Camry's styling bad. I think the Malibu's styling is different but neither better or worse than the Camry's.

sellaturcica

I bet all this appliance talk is all anecdotal. I'd be surprised if current appliances aren't more reliable than 20 years ago. Cars certainly are.

210delray

Looks nice and sleek overall, and it doesn't have the much-copied Hofmeister kink from BMW on the C-pillar. But I bet that's the top-of-the-line model AND those side windows are too small. I'll be so glad when the gunslit window trend ends.

I hope it also doesn't have a bigmouth chrome grille, another current fad that's past its "sell by" date.

andre1969

I think it looks gorgeous in that rump shot. However, I'm not so crazy about that view looking down on it. Looks a bit disproportionate, and actually makes me think a bit of the new Chrysler Sebring! The grille/headlights make me think of the Lexus ES330, with the headlights going for that peeled-back look.

anythngbutgm

Very impressive.

imidazol97

>I'll be so glad when the gunslit window trend ends.

I agree with that!

>I hope it also doesn't have a bigmouth chrome grille, another current fad that's past its "sell by" date

Agree. But the overhead front shot looks like it might not be as graceful and pleasing as I'd like.

We need to see shots from more direct front and rear from a distance to see. These seem to have a wide angle lens with some perspective distortion. But the trunk shape and taillight lens design looks really good; it doesn't suffer the odd look the Toyota Camry, Avalon, and ES group have.

fintail

Only a matter of time until the headlight and taillight assemblies are stretched so far they meet somewhere around the B-pillar? :shades:

I can be negative and say I am not held in awe by the squashed-Audi greenhouse, taillight shape from the same school, Lexus school dash layout (I guess some like that kind of thing) and pano roof that appears to be fake (in the middle photo created by "photoshop for dummies"...but seeing how blandiose the current Sonata is, the one that pays homage to the 03 Accord, this is certainly a step up. Just not the second coming of the CLS that some fanboys might claim :P

lemko

I dunno. Looks like it has the rear of an old Camry, the front end of a recent Lexus ES350 and the dashboard of a Buick LaCrosse.

elias

a theory is that the huge doors / tiny windows are occurring both because of form & function.
as far as function goes - maybe it's due to increased door strength/T-bone-collision requirements, such as those that went into effect for 2007 model year, forcing all manufacturers for USA market to design-in an extra metal 'beam' into each door - or
to discontinue the model/platform.

cooterbfd

".....Too bad he doesn't let you know the Hondas will outlast the Chevies and after 6 years, your depreciation with Chevy is a "Traversty". "

Well, Chevy has always done well with the "trucks" inspite of the problems you have had.

As far as resale is concerned, the same applies. GM's trucks have always done well in resale. The only hit they have taken has been because of high gas prices, but considering the fuel economy of both these vehicles, the both should bear the same hit in that area.

According to kbb.com, a comparably equipped 2008 GMC Acadia will get you about $32,500 at trade-in right now, as opposed to $27,300 for the '08 Pilot, assuming excellent condition and 30,000 miles.

cooterbfd

".....Sorta blows away the Malibu...May the Best Car Win!!"

2011,eh?? The Malibu will be 4 model years old and due for a refresh in 2011 or '12, so we'll see.

cooterbfd

Turbo 2 liter, and a 6 speed:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/19/breaking-buick-confirms-2011-regal-2-0t-to-co- me-with-manual-tra/#comments

michaellno

Is this the GM corporate 2L turbo, last seen in the Cobalt and HHR SS?

If so, hmmmm. 260HP and a stick, with limited slip, is intriguing in a vehicle that would have a Buick badge.

So long as none of the other GM brands gets something similar, Buick might have something here.

cooterbfd

So far, none. The Regal will be a shortened, Epsillon 2 car. The Cobalt and HHR are old school now, and will be built on the Delta archetecture in the future (the Cruze).

cooterbfd

..... it is rumored to NOT have a V6 offered, as ALL the competition, foreign and domestic does. The DI 2.4 liter 4 will have about 198 hp and 182 ft/lbs tourque, a FAR CRY from the competition's 6's.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/27/report-2011-hyundai-sonata-wont-offer-a-v6/

british_rover

It is the Ecotec 2.0 but the tubo version of that engine came in many different power levels. The 2.0t in the 9-3s was around 190ish and the 2.0T was 210. The Cobalt and HHR got the 260 hp version with direct injection and variable valve timing that GM wouldn't put in the more premium SAABs for some reason.

210delray

It should be a Malibu SS, not a Buick. The LaCrosse should be the smallest car in the Buick lineup.

cooterbfd

But the Lacrosse is a pretty big car as is. Now, I don't think I would go as small as the Delta based "Baby Buick" destined for China, but 3 cars (Regal, Lacrosse, and Lucerne sized) plus any coupe variants (Riviera??) should be fine, as well as the Enclave.

BTW, I think any Malibu SS variant should be RWD.

tjc78

it is rumored to NOT have a V6 offered,

Got to find a way to sell the Azera I guess....with the Genesis and the current Sonata V6 the Azera is caught in the middle.

On a Buick note, I saw a new LaCrosse today. It was a light Taupe color. Very, very sharp. If it had been out when I leased my Genesis in May I certainly would have given it a look.

plekto

Nope - it's a detuned Cobalt SS engine with about 30 less HP and 500 extra pounds of weight added. It's dog slow as a result. Oh, and the combination of massive front weight, front wheel drive, turbo lag, and slow driving matched with soft suspension and zero low-end torque... A manual is a waste in this car.

GM... FAIL.

cooterbfd

What it REALLY needs is AWD, the magnetic shocks, and the Hennessy 425 hp, twin turbo 3.6

british_rover

Now hold on a minute. The Opel Insignia that the new Regal is based on weighs about 3,300 lbs. The SAAB 9-3 which comes with a 210 hp version of the 2.0T ecotec weighs about the same and is not a dog at all. It has almost zero turbo lag and with a manual is a very fun car to drive.

The Cobalt SS weighs almost 3,000 lbs so of course it will be faster with the extra 50 hp but it is a hot sport compact not an entry level lux sport sedan. It should be faster.

The 2.0T in the 9-3 makes 221 ft-lbs of torque at 2,500 rpms which is plenty strong for a car its size.

Most of the cars in that class are FWD or AWD with a FWD bias. The only one that is not is the 3 series and it is a whole lot more money then any of the others.

I think it could do just fine if marketed properly and if offered with an up level AWD trim.

nippononly

this new Regal will be shorter than a Malibu, but longer than a Cobalt? Sort of Passat-sized?

plekto

The new vehicle is stated to range between 3450 and 3600 lbs depending on trim and the motor is de-tuned from the Saab version so as to use regular gas. It's a softer, less powerful and, heavier "Americanized" version of the Insignia and it's going to just not work at all on U.S. highways and with the way we drive.

I test drove that Saab 9-3 with that motor as well - and it was Toyota Corolla boring - it felt like everyone else's 4 cylinder econobox - though with better suspension and interior(500lbs more than a Civic for instance makes a huge difference that 30-40 extra HP doesn't cover). Strip that interior down a notch, soften the suspension to Camry levels and well, it's going to be a follower instead of a class leader. The bigger V6 engine version of the 9-3 though was nice and something I'd have bought if it wasn't FWD.

GM really needs to stop putting small engines in big cars. Americans hate it and won't buy cars like that.

I'm sure it will be a "nice" car. But it's going to not impress the press or the marketplace, so it will be a failure for GM.

m4d_cow

Well, it's basically either a rebadged or slightly altered Opel Insignia, which I probably prefer the former as Insignia gets good reviews from European mags.

American brand with German technology, much like the majority of decent models in GM lineup. So much for American "advanced technology"... good thing that GM decided to keep Opel (although Opel itself might be furious since GM's laying off a lot of it's employees there) :P