I saw Lemko's '88 Park Ave plenty of times, and sat in it a few times, and I liked it. The main thing I liked was that it had a nice, plush velour interior that seemed comfy and inviting. But, I can understand that not everyone likes that. Some people equate velour with luxury, others equate it with a cathouse. :P At least Lemko's was a nice dark blue though, and not bordello burgundy. His car also had full gauges...speedo, tach, oil, amps, temp, fuel, which was definitely a cut above what most cars like this were offering at the time.
Also, I think he only paid something like $1200 for it, so it was a steal!
I've generally found Buick's to be relatively comfortable, but I don't like the way they drive. To soft and numb for me. My Buick experience is primarily from my Grandpa's Buick's since I've been driving. That would be a '92 Roadmaster, and a '96 and '00 P/A. Just not my cup of tea. I certainly wouldn't buy one no matter how cheap. Just as lemko wouldn't buy a Camry no matter how cheap (I probably wouldn't either, as the a Camry is IMO is a Toyota version of a Buick numb and soft, but with a better performing v6)
BTW, my first car was a Buick, my grandpa was nice enough to give me his '75 Buick Regal when I turned 16. My first and probably last.
This kind of goes back to my thought of imports being more fun to drive but American cars really do to be a passenger in. Given that things like, say, the Gremlin, were American cars this is certainly not a hard and fast rule.
Oh, yeah, and I was in the back of my buddy's new Audi A8 and that can do passenger comfort with the best of them...
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Sometimes I think GM has cost cut too much and doesn't do enough test and development on its new models. The Equinox seems to be having a lot of postings about teething problems too.
i think in general GM tries too hard and makes too many models, with non of them selling in super great quantities. That being said, I think the whole industry is overly saturated.. for example in the mid size sedans we can easily name 15+ cars that serve about the same segment. (think of Camry/Accord/Altima/Mazda 6/Sonata/Legacy/Fusion/........and the list goes on) If the average price was $20k, and the average quantity was 100k per model, there doesnt appear to be any car maker willing to come out and say: I am going to take 50% of the market and sell 750k units per year. And I will build a $20k car and sell it for $13k and make a profit....
A personal opinion I think the Pilot is ugly. I actually like the look of the enclave. Hopefully Honda's transmission troubles don't come back on the pilot like the did on the MDX, Odyssey and TL.
I didn't like the current refresh when it was first introduced, but they have grown on me.
I drive a 2009 Pilot and it is the best vehicle I've ever owned. And I never used to be lemon buyer. I owned an Oldsmobile Cutlass, a Honda Accord, a Toyota 4Runner, and a Toyota Avalon. They were all reliable, even the boat-like Cutlass, but the Pilot is also supremely rigid, and gives you a sense of confidence unmatched for an SUV within this price. And you certainly can't beat the versatility and comfort. Transmission? Exceptionally smooth and handles the cylinder de-activation very well that the whole system is seamless. Hail Honda!
Oh the problems with that 5 speed auto in the various V6 application Honda/Acura do exist for sure. I have seen plenty of them and taken MDXs, TLs, Oddsseys and the like in trade that had Trannys on the way out or had already failed. When they fail they usually leave you with reverse so you can at least back it up to the transport truck.
A guy who I used to work with is a tech at an Acura dealer now. Prior to that he was a Land Rover tech and that is where I knew him from. He calls the MDX Acura's Freelander, for the transmission problems only mind you the rest of the car is ok, and has replaced many of them. Going from Land Rovers that are in general hard to work on to Acuras that are relatively easy to work on in comparison he is in heaven. After replacing so many Freelander transmissions he can bust out a MDX trans in nearly half of book time to make a killing.
To soft and numb for me. My Buick experience is primarily from my Grandpa's Buick's since I've been driving. That would be a '92 Roadmaster, and a '96 and '00 P/A. Just not my cup of tea.
My Buick experience of late has been limited to my Dad's 2003 Regal LS, a 2000 LeSabre Custom I test drove years ago, and my grandmother's '85 LeSabre. I could deal with Dad's Regal...it wasn't too bad. Probably sprung a bit more aggressively than a Century, which might have helped. I liked the way the Intrepid handled much better, though. The 2000 LeSabre just tried too hard to isolate the driver from the road. Some people like that, but I want at least SOME feedback on what the car is doing! However, it was the base model. I think the Limited is better in that regard. And Grandma's '85 LeSabre would be so far removed from the modern driving experience, that it's probably not even worth bringing up. Still, I thought it was fairly maneuverable and nimble for its size. The '79 Newport I had seemed to handle better, but rode a bit rougher. I ended up putting heavy duty shocks on the LeSabre, which helped a little.
Just out of curiosity, how did you like that '75 Regal at the time? I like my '76 LeMans and the way it handles, although it's a little slow from, say, 0-60. I imagine the 2.41:1 axle doesn't help out much. At higher speeds it seems to improve though, probably because the secondaries are kicking in. My LeMans has been beefed up though, with a stiffer suspension, shocks, and better tires than what it probably had when it left the factory.
Oh, speaking of Buicks, I might go look at a 2000 Park Ave Ultra with 56000 miles on it today after work. That 2000 Bonneville I found sold already. :-( I also found another Bonneville, an '04 SLE with 50000 miles on it, for $11,500. The Park Ave doesn't have a price listed, so I'm sure that means they want too much for it!
I was looking for another Park Avenue, preferably an Ultra, and they wanted insane money for high-mileage examples. I won't be surprised if they want about $10K for that 2000 you're going to look at. News flash: my wife's co-worker's husband passed away and he had a black 1990 Park Avenue. Dang, if I didn't have this Grand Marquis already, I'd be tempted to go look at it. I believe the 1990 model would've still been similar to my '88. I'm not sure if Buick went to the new style body in 1991 or 1992.
It was 1991 for the Park Ave (and Ninety-Eight), although I think Cadillac held off until 1994, as they had done a pretty substantial restyle for 1989. The LeSabre, 88, and Bonneville changed for 1992.
Actually, there's a decent looking 1996 Park Ave for sale not too far away, but I dunno if I want to pay $4K for a 14 year old Buick with 109000 miles on it. Maybe, MAYBE, if it was absolutely perfect. But this one's showing some wear on the seat (normal for the age/mileage I guess) and the color's coming off the steering wheel Plus, I really prefer the restyled 1997 and newer Park Ave.
Just out of curiosity, how did you like that '75 Regal at the time? I like my '76 LeMans and the way it handles, although it's a little slow from, say, 0-60. I imagine the 2.41:1 axle doesn't help out much. At higher speeds it seems to improve though, probably because the secondaries are kicking in. My LeMans has been beefed up though, with a stiffer suspension, shocks, and better tires than what it probably had when it left the factory.
Overall I liked it. It had plenty of room for HS girls;) It was tan with a white landau vinyl top with white and tan interior, it even had an 8 track player. It had a 350 with a two barrel carb, so it probably only had 150hp at best probably. Yeah, it was relatively slow, but probably a good thing since I was 16 with a heavy foot. By the time I got it from my grandpa, it was 12 years old and had 130k miles on it. So it was tired and was hitting the stage of problems always arising. But it was primarily rust free as grandpa took it to Florida every winter. A few years back in NW Indiana winters caused the rust to pop up fast.
Dad's 2003 Regal LS, a 2000 LeSabre Custom I test drove years ago, and my grandmother's '85 LeSabre. I could deal with Dad's Regal...it wasn't too bad.
I've rented a few Regal's and LeSabre's of that vintage and while they are not bad, I certainly wouldn't want one. That's not to say they don't provide comfortable and reliable transportation.
$100 oil changes? For that it better be 18 yr old girls and some special dances included. Oil changes around here run from $18 at a Chrysler dealer w/a coupon (that's what they charge for my Jag as well) to about $30 (no special). If it needs synthetic I can do it in my garage for $30.
Yes, at least a 100 dollars for an oil change. Have you ever serviced a BMW at a BMW dealer? Ok lets say you don't take it to the dealer and take it to a regular shop that has the special tool to reset the BMW service interval light. You don't need to reset the light but it is annoying to drive around with a bunch of yellow and orange lights lit up in the dash.
If you want to do the 10,000 mile OCI then you have to use synthetic and not just any synthetic. You have to use a synthetic that meets BMWs minimum specs. Mobil 1 works, Valvoline synthetic should be ok, the German Spec Castrol works but not that garbage syntec they try to pass off as synthetic. Figure five or six bucks a quart maybe $4.50 if it is on sale and that X3 takes 6.5 or 7 quarts.
I used to run a service shop where about half our business was oil changes. No way would a X3 get an oil change with synthetic for less then 75 dollars. Our regular synthetic oil change with Amsoil, that meets the BMW specs, was about 55 dollars for five quarts of oil and a regular filter. The X3 takes more oil so add 7-10 dollars for that plus its filter is much, much more expensive then the standard spin on filter most cars use. Advanced Auto parts has the Purolator oil filter for a X3 at $18.69. That actually sounds a bit high to me but I haven't run that shop in a few years and we typically bought Oil filters at wholesale price then marked then up 10-15% which would be less then $18.69 on a part like that. Just checked autozone they are 15 some dollars for a STP or K&N filter but I think I would pay the extra three bucks for the Purolator they are good filters.
Lastly the X3 like many BMWs has a belly pan covering the underside of the car from the front bumper back to past the start of the from door opening. You can't change the oil without removing it because you can't get to the drain plug. It doesn't take all that long to remove but it does have to be done and a dealership is going to charge you three tenths or four tenths to remove it and put it back on.
You couldn't change the oil in a X3 with synthetic that meets the minimum specs for 30 bucks. The filter alone even on sale is going to eat up half your budget. The people leasing, key word here no one buys a X3 they are almost all leased, aren't going to change their own oil. Many of the people leasing the X3 couldn't afford a 40,000 dollar car if they weren't getting a highly subsidized lease.
Your point that people buying 40,000 dollar cars aren't going to quibble over slightly higher fuel or repair costs is simply incorrect. I sell cars double and triple that price and people still complain about repair/maintenance cost sometimes. Not as much as on lower priced cars when people have smaller budgets but they still complain. Sometimes they get upset enough that they even switch brands thinking they will have lower maintenance costs.
Driving 8,000 miles a year is so far from the average driver that of course your costs to maintain a vehicle will be far below the average. What kind of Jag do you have that you can get the oil changed for less then 30 bucks? A X-type? A Six cylinder S-Type?
I have a 15-degree 700' driveway in snow country - so it's AWD w/snow tires for me. An X-Type; bought it used, fully loaded for $18K. It goes to the Valvoline or Ford dealership for oil-changes.
I understand what you mean about dealer costs; I once took it to the Jag dealer for some free maintenance. I didn't realize a 4-wheel alignment wasn't included - $199!; mount and balance 1 tire $25. These aren't specialty type maintenance. The local mom-and-pop auto place performs these services for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
When I consider maintenance costs I'm certainly not considering taking vehicles to the dealer for basic services.
Another great example - I had a headlight go out on the X-Type. The local auto-parts service center had the (halogen) headlight on sale for $5 w/free installation. I said that's what I want. They ended up having to pull the battery to access the driver's side headlight! It was still free. So you do need to shop around, and not have the mind set you're going to the dealer for every little thing, and giving them $100 to walk in the door.
GM vehicles will typically have less expensive parts, but don't the luxury GM vehicles like Cadillac and Corvette have some fairly steep parts prices too?
I am sure you mean MAF(Mass Air Flow) or some other sensor and not MAP(Manifold Absolute Pressure) .
Full retail from GMParts direct for a Yukon MAP is only 94 bucks and online price is 49 bucks. Matches up about right with the autozone price.
Actually that price is so far above retail for even a MAF that a warranty company wouldn't pay half that price. They replaced something else entirely or you are reading the bill wrong or they just shafted a stupid warranty company.
The water pump and the air bag sensors are about right on though. IME airbag sensors are 350--600 bucks and new all water pumps for V8s aren't cheap either. Rebuilt or remanufactured is a different story.
My parents bought a 1981 Buick Regal with a 265 cu. inch V8 engine new in April 1981 that we kept until January 2001 when my mom decided she wanted a new 2001 Mercedes C240. I drove the Buick for it's last ten years and liked the soft ride as well as the 119 horsepower engine. I am a gentle driver. I think different cars whether Detroit 3 or import have their unique ride and handling characteristics. Personally I like the variety of all the different cars I have owned whether Honda, Toyota, Buick or Mercedes.
The truck stalled out when driving intermittently, almost causing my wife to have an accident twice. The brains at the local PBGMC dealer had it in twice without repair and then the 3rd time, I envoked the Lemon Law.
All of a sudden they called GM Engineering and figured out the deffective manifold absolute pressure sensor.
The point is GM parts ain't cheap so it's no big deal to buy Honda or Toyota since most models are built here anyway and parts are on par with the GM prices.
So, "May the Best Car Win" might actually help the Asians gain market share considering the parts on U.S. cars fail much more frequently! :surprise:
So, "May the Best Car Win" might actually help the Asians gain market share considering the parts on U.S. cars fail much more frequently!
They do? Why is it the low beam headlamp bulb I replaced in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue was stamped FEB 7 88? Why is it that I just replaced the original alternator that was in my 1989 Cadillac Brougham after 158K miles and 20 years? Dang! I guess some archaeologist is going to dig up a Camcord alternator after 3,000 years and put it on his Jetsons-style flying space car and it's going to still work?
Why is it the low beam headlamp bulb I replaced in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue was stamped FEB 7 88? Why is it that I just replaced the original alternator that was in my 1989 Cadillac Brougham after 158K miles and 20 years?
GM would be horrified to give you bad parts, that's why! Why, you're their best customer, aren't you, after all?
The parts in my Dad's '88 FWB went like wildfire BEFORE 70K miles!!!!! Since GM never cared about my family like you, we defected FOREVER! :shades:
General Motors probably didn’t have time to print up business cards and stationery for Michael Richards, who has quit his post as Buick GMC General Manager after just nine days in office. Richards’ departure marks the second high-profile leadership shift in less than 24 hours for the Detroit automaker after Chevrolet General Manager Brent Dewar announced his retirement plans yesterday.
“We wish him the best,” Susan Docherty, GM’s vice president of sales, service and marketing, told the Detroit News.
Richards was reportedly considering a major counter offer from his former employer, Austin, Texas-based industry sales agency Trilogy. It is unclear if he accepted that position. The Detroit News reports that Richards was looking closely at the offer based on last week’s major management shuffle by GM Chairman Ed Whitacre that ousted CEO Fritz Henderson, among others.
...or, maybe not. The job security has thinned out at GM unless you are UAW! Regards, OW
They do? Why is it the low beam headlamp bulb I replaced in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue was stamped FEB 7 88? Why is it that I just replaced the original alternator that was in my 1989 Cadillac Brougham after 158K miles and 20 years? Dang!
Well, maybe the previous owner was the age of the typical Buick owner and never drove at night. I'm not joking, my grandpa never drove his P/A's at night because he had a hard time seeing when it was dark out..
My wife's 07 GP has burned out both rear brake lights already. My 07 Expedition has burned out one tail light too.
GM DRL lights on their full size trucks and SUVs are the worst though. I couldn't keep a DRL in my Suburban for more than 3-6 mos. Doesn't look like they've improved them either as I've seen many GMT-900s running around with one or both DRLs burned out. Not a big deal but annoying none the less. Plus those quickie lubes want $20 to change the bulb! The bulbs at Autozone are like $2. I changed so many I could change the bulbs in 5 minutes with my eyes closed.
My LeMans has a Pontiac 350-4bbl. All 165 hp of it. My mechanic put a higher performance distributor on it and an aluminum intake manifold, and did some other odds and ends to it recently. Plus, it had gotten some beefing up from one of its previous owners, and ended up with a dual exhaust along the way. So it probably has a bit more than 165. But with that loafy 2.41:1 axle, it just can't do much with it I guess, until you get to higher speeds.
My grandmother's cousin has a 1989 Coupe DeVille, which might have around 110-120,000 miles on it by now. It's showing its age now, but honestly, it hasn't been a horrible car. I think by that time, once they had the 4.5 V-8, they had most of the kinks worked out.
Funny, there's one thing we can agree on. Those ridiculous shrunken FWD 1985-88 Cadillacs were pure junk. I was a junior in college when those came out. I was afraid I'd have nothing to which to look forward when I finally got my degree. If Cadillac kept building cars like those, I guarantee you I'd be driving something other than a Cadillac today.
By the way, I had the new style 1994 Cadillac when they first came out. I bought it Monday, November 23, 1993. Mine was Carmine Red Metallic with a Parchment leather interior. I drove it for 8 years and replaced it with a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS.
In my experience it's not so much the parts, but the labor. I just had a bunch of work done on my Expedition at a Ford dealer (which is also a buick/pontiac dealer), the total bill was $1700 including tax. Labor was $1,000. The idea that domestic vehicles are automatically cheaper to maintain, I would seriously disagree with. It pretty much was the same with my Suburban. When something went wrong, it was rarely under a $500 bill. The trans and A/C both were over $1k repairs on a vehicle with less than 65k miles.
I've had 2 X-Types. Just a word of caution - most Mom & Pop's can't align these AWD cars correctly. In addition, I now use the Jag dealer to balance my tires - he uses a road force balancer and gets them perfect - Mom & Pop use a spin balancer and get them "close" but no cigar. While you're using Valvoline and the Ford dealer for oil changes - make sure your transfer case cooling duct doesn't disappear because its too much trouble to put it back on. I now have an S-Type, and, Mom & Pop admit they can't align it properly. I once used Mom & Pop to mount and balance 4 new tires on my X Type. They scratched the hell out of my alloy wheels, it took three tries to get the balance even close, and I had to stand over the guy to make sure he didn't over torque my lugs.
MAP Sensor: $800 Water Pump: $350 Air Bag Sensor: $550
He specifically said those prices didn't include labor. Labor rates for most dealers around here run 85-105 dollars an hour doesn't really matter what kind of dealer it is. A tech working on a Ford or Chevy needs to be just as skilled as someone working on a Toyota or Honda plus your fixed costs at the dealership are the same for the same geographic area no matter what you sell.
Now the Lux brands tend to be closer to the 105 dollar mark but that is about the only difference.
The water pump in my uncle's 1997 Silverado went out on him earlier this year. I can't remember now what the total cost was, but it was cheaper than when the water pump went out on his 2003 Corolla back in 2007. I think the Corolla was around $500-550 total, while the Silverado might've been around $375-400? Now these costs include parts + labor.
I think the last time I replaced a water pump, it was in my 1969 Dodge Dart slant six, maybe back in 1990 or 1991. I did it myself, and the part was a whopping $25 or so. I have had water pumps fail since then, though, but they did at the point where it was sort of the last straw, so it prompted me to "retire" the car. One was a 1979 Newport that went out around 250,000 miles, and the other was that car's replacement, a 1989 Gran Fury that went out around 118,000. Looking back, I probably should have just replaced the Newport's water pump...or even paid to have it replaced if I didn't feel like trying to deal with it. In the long run, it would've cost less than that damn Gran Fury ended up costing!
Well, 4x4s are expensive to maintain no matter who makes them. Dealerships are the most expensive places to take any car and I don't even believe they're better than my local mechanic around the corner. He can do just about all the repairs on my 1989 Cadillac Brougham and 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I only take make 2007 Cadillac DTS to the dealer just so there's an electronic and paper record of maintenance if an issue develops.
The last time I changed out a water pump was on my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. It cost me $15 or $20 for the part and took only 20 minutes to do the job.
I now have an S-Type, and, Mom & Pop admit they can't align it properly.
Yep some really small places may not have the latest equipment. But there are a lot of chain places like - Firestone, Sears, Penske, and places that deal with Tire Rack that can perform common maintenance.
Or as I did the other day I simply use a different dealer. I had a coupon for a free front-end alignment from a Chrysler/Jeep dealer, and I paid for the rears to get aligned. After any shop fees and taxes, I paid a whopping $28.50 for a 4 wheel alignment on my Mazdaspeed 6 (and that included courtesy transport to work, but no donuts).
Shop around these days, you'll find a lot of bargains!
GM: I saw an ad last night stating that the Malibu starts at $22K+ Wow! I really think GM needs to figure out how to sell more cars in the $15K range; that's where the market is at in this economy. GM has lost the war by trying to go head to head with similar vehicles and pricing, competing against Toyota/Honda/Ford/Koreans. To continue this strategy is simply going to mean lowere and lower market-share with continued $ losses. They really need to do something different, quickly.
GM: I saw an ad last night stating that the Malibu starts at $22K+ Wow! I really think GM needs to figure out how to sell more cars in the $15K range; that's where the market is at in this economy.
Yeah, that is a bit much for a base price. Just for a comparison, in car shopping online, I've been able to find brand-new Altima 2.5SL models, with sunroof, alloys, power seat, leather, etc, for about $23K, although the MSRP on something like that is more like $27K I think!
Kinda makes me wonder though, what kind of deal you could actually get on a hypothetical $22K Malibu?
That's it! The only way I buy another GM is for Lemko to purchase it for me! No parts will ever fail and I am guaranteed to have a flawless GM for at least 15 - 20 years!!.
Well, 4x4s are expensive to maintain no matter who makes them. Dealerships are the most expensive places to take any car and I don't even believe they're better than my local mechanic around the corner. He can do just about all the repairs on my 1989 Cadillac Brougham and 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I only take make 2007 Cadillac DTS to the dealer just so there's an electronic and paper record of maintenance if an issue develops.
I've had 3 4x4 vehicles in a row and really haven't found them to be that much more to maintain. An occasional transfer case fluid change (and both differentials, but most people seem to skip those), that's been about it. I did have to replace the 4 wheel drive selector switch on my Suburban (very common problem on the '00-06 full-sizers), but it was under a $100 parts and labor at the dealer. That's the only non routine problem I've had with 4x4 drive system so far. No doubt the additional components can lead to more repairs.
The main reason I took the Expedition into the dealer was due to the engine having a miss when cold, it ran fine warmed up, but it did set the "check engine light" and I was still within the powertrain warranty. So I thought there was a slight possibility it would be covered, since it was a coil pack, it wasn't covered. The coil only cost $70, it was the spark plug removal that cost so much. Over $500 in labor to extract the plugs due to 3 of them breaking in the process. I probably could have waited on the plugs and taken it to a independent shop, but with the problem Ford is having with these plugs, I didn't want to risk somebody who wasn't aware of the TSB doing something wrong which could create a much more expensive issue.
When the A/C compressor died on my Suburban the dealer was only $100 more than the local shops around me to replace it, plus the dealer gave a much better warranty on the replacement parts. Since it was a $1300 repair, the extra hundred wasn't a big deal to me.
The transmission was an area where a independent shop was quite a bit cheaper. The dealer wanted to replace the trans for over $3k, I had a good local trans shop do a rebuild to better than OEM for $1600 and he provided a 3 year unlimited mile warranty.
I just did the Edmund's TMV on a V-6 Malibu LT2 (2nd highest trim) w/sunroof and most options, and came up with a TMV after rebate of $27,500. MSRP was $29K+
With any fees, registration and taxes, and financing, I'd be looking at $500+/month for 60 months; on a Malibu. And THAT"S why GM is having trouble moving cars.
That's a lot of money for a modest car from a bankrupt company, with an average warranty. People are having trouble paying their utility bills and going out to eat once/week, are not going to commit to that sort of purchase!
Just for kicks I tried pricing one with the 4-cyl, and came out with a TMV of $25,935. Meanwhile, I tried it on an Altima 2.5SL with sunroof and a few other odds and ends (spoiler, sunroof wind deflector, fog lights) and came out with a TMV of $25,198.
And while the Malibu is a decent car, the Altima just seems like so much more for your money. For one thing, its 2.5 will blow away the Malibu's 2.4. And the Altima is a bit roomier inside. And what is the world coming to, when you have to pay extra for a spare tire?!
Now getting into used cars, I can start seeing more value in the domestics. For example, I had found a 2008 Altima 2.5S with about 38000 miles on it for $14,900. Fairly basic car...no alloys, no sunroof, no leather. I also came across a 2009 Saturn Aura XE, with the 2.4 and 6-speed automatic, 32000 miles, for around $11,900. And again no sunroof, leather, or alloys, so I'd say they're comparable.
Now in this case, if forced to choose, I'd probably take the Aura. I still might think the Altima is a better car, but not necessarily $3,000 better. I'm actually thinking about taking the Aura out for a test spin sometime and see if I like it. But tonite, I'm going to try getting a hot date with a 56000 mile 2000 Park Ave Ultra, and see how it suits me!
With any fees, registration and taxes, and financing, I'd be looking at $500+/month for 60 months; on a Malibu. And THAT"S why GM is having trouble moving cars.
Well, isn't much of Whitacre's mantra sell more cars with less discounts? Add in his need for outsiders and replacing older mangers with youth... heck, add "do market research" and you'd have a new undergraduate business student's first solution to a textbook case! Meanwhile GM continues to rapidly burn through its bailout dollars. Bottom line, GM seems to have replaced insiders with mediocre results with outsiders relying on business school theory. I'm predicting that it won't be long before there are fire sale prices like the airlines to keep afloat by bringing in cash flow at any cost. Sorry, but I just don't see much Mullaly in Whitacre so far.
With any fees, registration and taxes, and financing, I'd be looking at $500+/month for 60 months; on a Malibu. And THAT"S why GM is having trouble moving cars.
I browsed through the car ads on Sunday and pretty much every payment quoted was for 72-84 mos. That's pretty crazy IMO, if you have to stretch it out the long it's time to buy something cheaper.
Lets see, Malibu spec'ed out like you did or...a 010 Hyundai Sonata (more interior room, 1 MPG less than Malibu) - Price with all options: $20,454.
Maybe for a GLS 4cyl, but the SE v6 and Limited v6 start at $22k and $24k, I didn't mess with options. The current Sonata is it bit old now, so I'd like to think your getting more car with the Malibu.
Really how did you manage that? Did you add up all the different metallic paint charges or something? I got to a TMV of $26,871 after the $1500 rebate from a $29,485 MSRP.
I added one of the metallic paints and then all other options but the block heater, compact spare tire, colored side moldings and premium mat package. Those aren't options that have any equivalent for a Camry or Accord so I didn't add them. They aren't typically equipped options and I think they are options that most people wouldn't care about.
A Camry SE with as close the same equipment as I can get has a MSRP of $30,445 and a TMV of $28,079.
A EX-L V6 accord comes out to MSRP $29,815 and TMV of $27,793.
So the Malibu is $1,000 or more cheaper then the two highest volume competitors. with similar equipment. Its less money I mean what else do you want? Do you want it to be 5,000 dollars less? 10,000 dollars less? That is just not going to happen.
Average price of a new car in the US is still around 30,000 dollars. You say GM should concentrate on the $15,000 and under market but what would you sell in that price range? Edmunds has 12 unique sedans in the price range or under. Most of them are built in Korea because that is the only way you are going to get a new sedan with the safety and other standard equipment the US market requires to the market for under 15,000.
Honda has no model in that price range and Toyota has one the Yaris. Chevy has two the Aveo and the Cobalt. Are they class competitive cars??? Ehh maybe not as they aer both due for redesigns right now. but they are competing in that segment they just need to do better. We will have to see how the Cruze and Spark do when they come out.
>So the Malibu is $1,000 or more cheaper then the two highest volume competitors. with similar equipment. Its less money I mean what else do you want? Do you want it to be 5,000 dollars less? 10,000 dollars less? That is just not going to happen.
Thank you for the realistic comparison. For years people complained GM was too high on their price. Then it was they were too low because of incentives. Then it's that they should sell more cars at lower price. Then it's that they should make more money to pay back their loan.
I don't think people really know what they think GM should do. It's just a chance to vent about something they don't like about GM.
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Also, I think he only paid something like $1200 for it, so it was a steal!
BTW, my first car was a Buick, my grandpa was nice enough to give me his '75 Buick Regal when I turned 16. My first and probably last.
Oh, yeah, and I was in the back of my buddy's new Audi A8 and that can do passenger comfort with the best of them...
i think in general GM tries too hard and makes too many models, with non of them selling in super great quantities. That being said, I think the whole industry is overly saturated.. for example in the mid size sedans we can easily name 15+ cars that serve about the same segment. (think of Camry/Accord/Altima/Mazda 6/Sonata/Legacy/Fusion/........and the list goes on) If the average price was $20k, and the average quantity was 100k per model, there doesnt appear to be any car maker willing to come out and say: I am going to take 50% of the market and sell 750k units per year. And I will build a $20k car and sell it for $13k and make a profit....
They had enough money to hire the "Volt dancers" for the LA Auto Show! :P
I didn't like the current refresh when it was first introduced, but they have grown on me.
I drive a 2009 Pilot and it is the best vehicle I've ever owned. And I never used to be lemon buyer. I owned an Oldsmobile Cutlass, a Honda Accord, a Toyota 4Runner, and a Toyota Avalon.
They were all reliable, even the boat-like Cutlass, but the Pilot is also supremely rigid, and gives you a sense of confidence unmatched for an SUV within this price. And you certainly can't beat the versatility and comfort. Transmission? Exceptionally smooth and handles the cylinder de-activation very well that the whole system is seamless. Hail Honda!
A guy who I used to work with is a tech at an Acura dealer now. Prior to that he was a Land Rover tech and that is where I knew him from. He calls the MDX Acura's Freelander, for the transmission problems only mind you the rest of the car is ok, and has replaced many of them. Going from Land Rovers that are in general hard to work on to Acuras that are relatively easy to work on in comparison he is in heaven. After replacing so many Freelander transmissions he can bust out a MDX trans in nearly half of book time to make a killing.
My Buick experience of late has been limited to my Dad's 2003 Regal LS, a 2000 LeSabre Custom I test drove years ago, and my grandmother's '85 LeSabre. I could deal with Dad's Regal...it wasn't too bad. Probably sprung a bit more aggressively than a Century, which might have helped. I liked the way the Intrepid handled much better, though. The 2000 LeSabre just tried too hard to isolate the driver from the road. Some people like that, but I want at least SOME feedback on what the car is doing! However, it was the base model. I think the Limited is better in that regard. And Grandma's '85 LeSabre would be so far removed from the modern driving experience, that it's probably not even worth bringing up. Still, I thought it was fairly maneuverable and nimble for its size. The '79 Newport I had seemed to handle better, but rode a bit rougher. I ended up putting heavy duty shocks on the LeSabre, which helped a little.
Just out of curiosity, how did you like that '75 Regal at the time? I like my '76 LeMans and the way it handles, although it's a little slow from, say, 0-60. I imagine the 2.41:1 axle doesn't help out much. At higher speeds it seems to improve though, probably because the secondaries are kicking in. My LeMans has been beefed up though, with a stiffer suspension, shocks, and better tires than what it probably had when it left the factory.
Oh, speaking of Buicks, I might go look at a 2000 Park Ave Ultra with 56000 miles on it today after work. That 2000 Bonneville I found sold already. :-( I also found another Bonneville, an '04 SLE with 50000 miles on it, for $11,500. The Park Ave doesn't have a price listed, so I'm sure that means they want too much for it!
Actually, there's a decent looking 1996 Park Ave for sale not too far away, but I dunno if I want to pay $4K for a 14 year old Buick with 109000 miles on it. Maybe, MAYBE, if it was absolutely perfect. But this one's showing some wear on the seat (normal for the age/mileage I guess) and the color's coming off the steering wheel Plus, I really prefer the restyled 1997 and newer Park Ave.
Overall I liked it. It had plenty of room for HS girls;) It was tan with a white landau vinyl top with white and tan interior, it even had an 8 track player. It had a 350 with a two barrel carb, so it probably only had 150hp at best probably. Yeah, it was relatively slow, but probably a good thing since I was 16 with a heavy foot. By the time I got it from my grandpa, it was 12 years old and had 130k miles on it. So it was tired and was hitting the stage of problems always arising. But it was primarily rust free as grandpa took it to Florida every winter. A few years back in NW Indiana winters caused the rust to pop up fast.
Dad's 2003 Regal LS, a 2000 LeSabre Custom I test drove years ago, and my grandmother's '85 LeSabre. I could deal with Dad's Regal...it wasn't too bad.
I've rented a few Regal's and LeSabre's of that vintage and while they are not bad, I certainly wouldn't want one. That's not to say they don't provide comfortable and reliable transportation.
Yes, at least a 100 dollars for an oil change. Have you ever serviced a BMW at a BMW dealer? Ok lets say you don't take it to the dealer and take it to a regular shop that has the special tool to reset the BMW service interval light. You don't need to reset the light but it is annoying to drive around with a bunch of yellow and orange lights lit up in the dash.
If you want to do the 10,000 mile OCI then you have to use synthetic and not just any synthetic. You have to use a synthetic that meets BMWs minimum specs. Mobil 1 works, Valvoline synthetic should be ok, the German Spec Castrol works but not that garbage syntec they try to pass off as synthetic. Figure five or six bucks a quart maybe $4.50 if it is on sale and that X3 takes 6.5 or 7 quarts.
I used to run a service shop where about half our business was oil changes. No way would a X3 get an oil change with synthetic for less then 75 dollars. Our regular synthetic oil change with Amsoil, that meets the BMW specs, was about 55 dollars for five quarts of oil and a regular filter. The X3 takes more oil so add 7-10 dollars for that plus its filter is much, much more expensive then the standard spin on filter most cars use. Advanced Auto parts has the Purolator oil filter for a X3 at $18.69. That actually sounds a bit high to me but I haven't run that shop in a few years and we typically bought Oil filters at wholesale price then marked then up 10-15% which would be less then $18.69 on a part like that. Just checked autozone they are 15 some dollars for a STP or K&N filter but I think I would pay the extra three bucks for the Purolator they are good filters.
Lastly the X3 like many BMWs has a belly pan covering the underside of the car from the front bumper back to past the start of the from door opening. You can't change the oil without removing it because you can't get to the drain plug. It doesn't take all that long to remove but it does have to be done and a dealership is going to charge you three tenths or four tenths to remove it and put it back on.
You couldn't change the oil in a X3 with synthetic that meets the minimum specs for 30 bucks. The filter alone even on sale is going to eat up half your budget. The people leasing, key word here no one buys a X3 they are almost all leased, aren't going to change their own oil. Many of the people leasing the X3 couldn't afford a 40,000 dollar car if they weren't getting a highly subsidized lease.
Your point that people buying 40,000 dollar cars aren't going to quibble over slightly higher fuel or repair costs is simply incorrect. I sell cars double and triple that price and people still complain about repair/maintenance cost sometimes. Not as much as on lower priced cars when people have smaller budgets but they still complain. Sometimes they get upset enough that they even switch brands thinking they will have lower maintenance costs.
Driving 8,000 miles a year is so far from the average driver that of course your costs to maintain a vehicle will be far below the average. What kind of Jag do you have that you can get the oil changed for less then 30 bucks? A X-type? A Six cylinder S-Type?
I understand what you mean about dealer costs; I once took it to the Jag dealer for some free maintenance. I didn't realize a 4-wheel alignment wasn't included - $199!; mount and balance 1 tire $25. These aren't specialty type maintenance. The local mom-and-pop auto place performs these services for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
When I consider maintenance costs I'm certainly not considering taking vehicles to the dealer for basic services.
Another great example - I had a headlight go out on the X-Type. The local auto-parts service center had the (halogen) headlight on sale for $5 w/free installation. I said that's what I want. They ended up having to pull the battery to access the driver's side headlight! It was still free. So you do need to shop around, and not have the mind set you're going to the dealer for every little thing, and giving them $100 to walk in the door.
GM vehicles will typically have less expensive parts, but don't the luxury GM vehicles like Cadillac and Corvette have some fairly steep parts prices too?
MAP Sensor: $800
Water Pump: $350
Air Bag Sensor: $550
Not cheap. Lucky I bought an extended warranty at 35K miles on this low dependability puppy.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Full retail from GMParts direct for a Yukon MAP is only 94 bucks and online price is 49 bucks. Matches up about right with the autozone price.
Actually that price is so far above retail for even a MAF that a warranty company wouldn't pay half that price. They replaced something else entirely or you are reading the bill wrong or they just shafted a stupid warranty company.
The water pump and the air bag sensors are about right on though. IME airbag sensors are 350--600 bucks and new all water pumps for V8s aren't cheap either. Rebuilt or remanufactured is a different story.
I think different cars whether Detroit 3 or import have their unique ride and handling characteristics. Personally I like the variety of all the different cars I have owned whether Honda, Toyota, Buick or Mercedes.
The truck stalled out when driving intermittently, almost causing my wife to have an accident twice. The brains at the local PBGMC dealer had it in twice without repair and then the 3rd time, I envoked the Lemon Law.
All of a sudden they called GM Engineering and figured out the deffective manifold absolute pressure sensor.
The point is GM parts ain't cheap so it's no big deal to buy Honda or Toyota since most models are built here anyway and parts are on par with the GM prices.
So, "May the Best Car Win" might actually help the Asians gain market share considering the parts on U.S. cars fail much more frequently! :surprise:
Regards,
OW
They do? Why is it the low beam headlamp bulb I replaced in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue was stamped FEB 7 88? Why is it that I just replaced the original alternator that was in my 1989 Cadillac Brougham after 158K miles and 20 years? Dang! I guess some archaeologist is going to dig up a Camcord alternator after 3,000 years and put it on his Jetsons-style flying space car and it's going to still work?
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/catalog/frameset.cfm
I have no idea how you are figuring that the part would cost 800 dollars but it is just not possible.
GM would be horrified to give you bad parts, that's why! Why, you're their best customer, aren't you, after all?
The parts in my Dad's '88 FWB went like wildfire BEFORE 70K miles!!!!! Since GM never cared about my family like you, we defected FOREVER! :shades:
Regards,
OW
General Motors probably didn’t have time to print up business cards and stationery for Michael Richards, who has quit his post as Buick GMC General Manager after just nine days in office. Richards’ departure marks the second high-profile leadership shift in less than 24 hours for the Detroit automaker after Chevrolet General Manager Brent Dewar announced his retirement plans yesterday.
“We wish him the best,” Susan Docherty, GM’s vice president of sales, service and marketing, told the Detroit News.
Richards was reportedly considering a major counter offer from his former employer, Austin, Texas-based industry sales agency Trilogy. It is unclear if he accepted that position. The Detroit News reports that Richards was looking closely at the offer based on last week’s major management shuffle by GM Chairman Ed Whitacre that ousted CEO Fritz Henderson, among others.
...or, maybe not. The job security has thinned out at GM unless you are UAW!
Regards,
OW
Well, maybe the previous owner was the age of the typical Buick owner and never drove at night. I'm not joking, my grandpa never drove his P/A's at night because he had a hard time seeing when it was dark out..
My wife's 07 GP has burned out both rear brake lights already. My 07 Expedition has burned out one tail light too.
GM DRL lights on their full size trucks and SUVs are the worst though. I couldn't keep a DRL in my Suburban for more than 3-6 mos. Doesn't look like they've improved them either as I've seen many GMT-900s running around with one or both DRLs burned out. Not a big deal but annoying none the less. Plus those quickie lubes want $20 to change the bulb! The bulbs at Autozone are like $2. I changed so many I could change the bulbs in 5 minutes with my eyes closed.
What engine is in Your LeMans?
Regards,
OW
My grandmother's cousin has a 1989 Coupe DeVille, which might have around 110-120,000 miles on it by now. It's showing its age now, but honestly, it hasn't been a horrible car. I think by that time, once they had the 4.5 V-8, they had most of the kinks worked out.
By the way, I had the new style 1994 Cadillac when they first came out. I bought it Monday, November 23, 1993. Mine was Carmine Red Metallic with a Parchment leather interior. I drove it for 8 years and replaced it with a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS.
I gotta love the poster's effort to try to smear the GM image with ultra high prices!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards:
OldCEM
MAP Sensor: $800
Water Pump: $350
Air Bag Sensor: $550
He specifically said those prices didn't include labor. Labor rates for most dealers around here run 85-105 dollars an hour doesn't really matter what kind of dealer it is. A tech working on a Ford or Chevy needs to be just as skilled as someone working on a Toyota or Honda plus your fixed costs at the dealership are the same for the same geographic area no matter what you sell.
Now the Lux brands tend to be closer to the 105 dollar mark but that is about the only difference.
I think the last time I replaced a water pump, it was in my 1969 Dodge Dart slant six, maybe back in 1990 or 1991. I did it myself, and the part was a whopping $25 or so. I have had water pumps fail since then, though, but they did at the point where it was sort of the last straw, so it prompted me to "retire" the car. One was a 1979 Newport that went out around 250,000 miles, and the other was that car's replacement, a 1989 Gran Fury that went out around 118,000. Looking back, I probably should have just replaced the Newport's water pump...or even paid to have it replaced if I didn't feel like trying to deal with it. In the long run, it would've cost less than that
damnGran Fury ended up costing!Yep some really small places may not have the latest equipment. But there are a lot of chain places like - Firestone, Sears, Penske, and places that deal with Tire Rack that can perform common maintenance.
Or as I did the other day I simply use a different dealer. I had a coupon for a free front-end alignment from a Chrysler/Jeep dealer, and I paid for the rears to get aligned. After any shop fees and taxes, I paid a whopping $28.50 for a 4 wheel alignment on my Mazdaspeed 6 (and that included courtesy transport to work, but no donuts).
Shop around these days, you'll find a lot of bargains!
GM: I saw an ad last night stating that the Malibu starts at $22K+ Wow! I really think GM needs to figure out how to sell more cars in the $15K range; that's where the market is at in this economy. GM has lost the war by trying to go head to head with similar vehicles and pricing, competing against Toyota/Honda/Ford/Koreans. To continue this strategy is simply going to mean lowere and lower market-share with continued $ losses. They really need to do something different, quickly.
Yeah, that is a bit much for a base price. Just for a comparison, in car shopping online, I've been able to find brand-new Altima 2.5SL models, with sunroof, alloys, power seat, leather, etc, for about $23K, although the MSRP on something like that is more like $27K I think!
Kinda makes me wonder though, what kind of deal you could actually get on a hypothetical $22K Malibu?
Regards,
OW
There! I said it!
Regards,
OW
I've had 3 4x4 vehicles in a row and really haven't found them to be that much more to maintain. An occasional transfer case fluid change (and both differentials, but most people seem to skip those), that's been about it. I did have to replace the 4 wheel drive selector switch on my Suburban (very common problem on the '00-06 full-sizers), but it was under a $100 parts and labor at the dealer. That's the only non routine problem I've had with 4x4 drive system so far. No doubt the additional components can lead to more repairs.
The main reason I took the Expedition into the dealer was due to the engine having a miss when cold, it ran fine warmed up, but it did set the "check engine light" and I was still within the powertrain warranty. So I thought there was a slight possibility it would be covered, since it was a coil pack, it wasn't covered. The coil only cost $70, it was the spark plug removal that cost so much. Over $500 in labor to extract the plugs due to 3 of them breaking in the process. I probably could have waited on the plugs and taken it to a independent shop, but with the problem Ford is having with these plugs, I didn't want to risk somebody who wasn't aware of the TSB doing something wrong which could create a much more expensive issue.
When the A/C compressor died on my Suburban the dealer was only $100 more than the local shops around me to replace it, plus the dealer gave a much better warranty on the replacement parts. Since it was a $1300 repair, the extra hundred wasn't a big deal to me.
The transmission was an area where a independent shop was quite a bit cheaper. The dealer wanted to replace the trans for over $3k, I had a good local trans shop do a rebuild to better than OEM for $1600 and he provided a 3 year unlimited mile warranty.
With any fees, registration and taxes, and financing, I'd be looking at $500+/month for 60 months; on a Malibu. And THAT"S why GM is having trouble moving cars.
That's a lot of money for a modest car from a bankrupt company, with an average warranty. People are having trouble paying their utility bills and going out to eat once/week, are not going to commit to that sort of purchase!
And while the Malibu is a decent car, the Altima just seems like so much more for your money. For one thing, its 2.5 will blow away the Malibu's 2.4. And the Altima is a bit roomier inside. And what is the world coming to, when you have to pay extra for a spare tire?!
Now getting into used cars, I can start seeing more value in the domestics. For example, I had found a 2008 Altima 2.5S with about 38000 miles on it for $14,900. Fairly basic car...no alloys, no sunroof, no leather. I also came across a 2009 Saturn Aura XE, with the 2.4 and 6-speed automatic, 32000 miles, for around $11,900. And again no sunroof, leather, or alloys, so I'd say they're comparable.
Now in this case, if forced to choose, I'd probably take the Aura. I still might think the Altima is a better car, but not necessarily $3,000 better. I'm actually thinking about taking the Aura out for a test spin sometime and see if I like it. But tonite, I'm going to try getting a hot date with a 56000 mile 2000 Park Ave Ultra, and see how it suits me!
Well, isn't much of Whitacre's mantra sell more cars with less discounts? Add in his need for outsiders and replacing older mangers with youth... heck, add "do market research" and you'd have a new undergraduate business student's first solution to a textbook case! Meanwhile GM continues to rapidly burn through its bailout dollars. Bottom line, GM seems to have replaced insiders with mediocre results with outsiders relying on business school theory. I'm predicting that it won't be long before there are fire sale prices like the airlines to keep afloat by bringing in cash flow at any cost. Sorry, but I just don't see much Mullaly in Whitacre so far.
I browsed through the car ads on Sunday and pretty much every payment quoted was for 72-84 mos. That's pretty crazy IMO, if you have to stretch it out the long it's time to buy something cheaper.
I understand they need to be competitive but they should remove ALL of the incentives and cut prices to the bone. That'll never happen!
Lets see, Malibu spec'ed out like you did or...a 010 Hyundai Sonata (more interior
room, 1 MPG less than Malibu) - Price with all options: $20,454.
Until GM takes the price plunge, it's curtains afaic.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
room, 1 MPG less than Malibu) - Price with all options: $20,454.
Maybe for a GLS 4cyl, but the SE v6 and Limited v6 start at $22k and $24k, I didn't mess with options. The current Sonata is it bit old now, so I'd like to think your getting more car with the Malibu.
I added one of the metallic paints and then all other options but the block heater, compact spare tire, colored side moldings and premium mat package. Those aren't options that have any equivalent for a Camry or Accord so I didn't add them. They aren't typically equipped options and I think they are options that most people wouldn't care about.
A Camry SE with as close the same equipment as I can get has a MSRP of $30,445 and a TMV of $28,079.
A EX-L V6 accord comes out to MSRP $29,815 and TMV of $27,793.
So the Malibu is $1,000 or more cheaper then the two highest volume competitors. with similar equipment. Its less money I mean what else do you want? Do you want it to be 5,000 dollars less? 10,000 dollars less? That is just not going to happen.
Average price of a new car in the US is still around 30,000 dollars. You say GM should concentrate on the $15,000 and under market but what would you sell in that price range? Edmunds has 12 unique sedans in the price range or under. Most of them are built in Korea because that is the only way you are going to get a new sedan with the safety and other standard equipment the US market requires to the market for under 15,000.
Honda has no model in that price range and Toyota has one the Yaris. Chevy has two the Aveo and the Cobalt. Are they class competitive cars??? Ehh maybe not as they aer both due for redesigns right now. but they are competing in that segment they just need to do better. We will have to see how the Cruze and Spark do when they come out.
Thank you for the realistic comparison. For years people complained GM was too high on their price. Then it was they were too low because of incentives. Then it's that they should sell more cars at lower price. Then it's that they should make more money to pay back their loan.
I don't think people really know what they think GM should do. It's just a chance to vent about something they don't like about GM.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,