I'll be dead honest. It would have to be a great car for me to buy a Buick. To me the Buick name means nothing good. My first though to hearing the name Buick is geriatrics. Now, I'm not closed minded. I never say never. So, I would at least drive one if I was looking to spend $30k on a sedan. I would also drive other sedans in the same price range and I'd buy the one I liked the best. But I'd guess I'd still be a bit biased against the Buick. It would really have to impress me.
Okay, I just went over the Regal website again. Now I'm more clear. I didn't realize the GS was only a concept car. Okay, that model looks very sweet with 255hp, manual trans and AWD etc. I have no doubt if this model is offered it's going to be pricey. Does GM have the balls to offer a manual trans Buick. I hope they do it, but they have to realize they're not going to sell many. I'm sick of GM bringing out something interesting, not improving on it then canceling it.
Fact is, a sport sedan with a manual trans from a non German automaker is going to be a slow seller. I think GM needs to offer an auto with the GS trim to help sell more and allow them to sell this model a bit cheaper. If Mazda couldn't sell many Mazdaspeed 6's no way can Buick sell many Regal GS's with a manual trans only. Not going to happen. While I'd buy the manual in heartbeat, most people won't. Granted most Buick owners probably started driving when all you had were manuals, so maybe nostalgia will help sell a few;) Could add a hand crank start option too. LOL
A Regal GS at $35K will be left on the dealers lots until the incentives arrive...and then the horrible residuals kick in and then....the usual GM failed strategy!
Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Co. is cutting prices and reworking ads to revive sales of two sedans that executives consider vital to meeting Chairman Ed Whitacre’s goal for a 2010 profit.
A little nervous about prices? Duhhh!
Malibu and CTS inventory reached a five-month supply in late 2009, more than double the industry average of roughly two months, Reuss said. The CTS was priced too high against models such as Bayerische Motoren Werke AG’s 3-Series, he said.
GM slashed CTS prices this week by as much as $3,000, said Steve Shannon, executive director of marketing for Cadillac. One popular version was pared to $39,990 from $42,255, with monthly lease payments dropping to $369 from $417, he said. BMW’s U.S. Web site advertises 3-Series leases for as low as $379.
Exactly - price is a big part of why GM's sales are down, and every other auto manufacturer! The economy has changed the last 2 years, and the effects are cerrtainly going to be around a while.
Specific GM overprice example: Everyone in this forum was probably aware that Pontiac and Saturn in their last days were offering $7,000 + any dealer discounts to move the last 40K or so Pontiacs and Saturns. Who here went and bought one? Why not? You couldn't find anything you liked at a price you could justify right? Then what chance does GM have of selling many of their similar vehicles in the other divisions near regular price?
I still wouldn't go look at a Cadillac CTS at $40K. Take $10K off and throw in a 5 yr bumper-to-bumper warranty w/all maintenance and I'd have a 50% chance of buying.
The economy is still in a whole-lot-of-hurt as yesterday's job numbers show, and consider when the government stimulus runs out (they can't keepe borrowing forever), what condition we're going to be in! The main-stream middle-class auto buyer pool is much smaller now due to layoffs AND the threat of future layoffs. Very few middle-income people are running out to put a $30K vehicle + all the taxes + all the insurance in their garages.
"The main-stream middle-class auto buyer pool is much smaller now"
the auto companies in general and GM in particular have no idea what is about to hit them. 10 million vehicles / year kind of market is here to stay. Any auto OEM who can not turn a profit at that level is going to die, very soon.
The better auto companies - those with better brand-image and/or better products at a decent price will be the winners of the existing market.
The companies that have lost the war in the U.S. need to reinvent themselves. Chrysler is on this track with Fiat, planning on dumping most of their current models and bringing in new Euro. models which really have few competitors in the U.S. (If you read the Chrysler-Fiat forum, you'll realize I'm a vocal critic of this happening with U.S. taxpayer $, and not Fiat or some other private source of $).
Anyway GM should be thinking about a major change in product, and stop taking U.S. taxpayer $ and doing the same old things they have done before, which failed before! That makes no sense. Bringing out another $30K 190", 3700 LB, 4-dr sedan with 250hp, just like Brand-X has not worked for various reasons. It didn't work 20 years ago and it didn't work 10 years ago, and guess what today - it won't work!
GM will continue to lose market-share and need government aid forever, with this strategy; given they are operating basicaslly the same way they have for many years of decline.
If GM wants to try and make $ on cars like Malibus and CTS'S they need to sell volume - keeping the factories humming. In order to do this, they need to make their vehicles comparable in quality and content as the competition. So if a Sonata is selling for $22K MSRP and actually sells for $17K on the street, GM had better sell that Malibu for less to get a high volume and push the competition out; or get out of the game.
why would anyone lease a CTS when a comparably equip'd BMW is about the same? it does not make sense to anyone with common sense but those folks at GM.
At to paying back taxpayer $, well, the "let's be honest" politicians wouldn't tell you this but your billions of bailout money in Chrysler / GM was long gone, and you shouldn't pray to get it back.
you are lucky if the government doesn't "invest", as the "let's be honest" politicians would so fashionably say, more of your money on your behalf in GM.
Yes, BMW gets my money before Caddy. I guess I'm not the only one either.
Funny thing is the D3 kept letting the competition best them in almost every category of car in the US except for the Corvette and the Mustang. Finally Ford has some answers but is along way from claiming victory but at least they aren't total failures like GM.
Just like the Camaro, GM is ALWAYS late to the game. Now it will be harder to price their derelict vehicles right to drive sales and make a profit because once again, they're late!!
Reuss said he’s using a page on the Facebook social networking Web site to keep in contact with customers and buff GM’s image one buyer at a time, if necessary.
“I’ve been here two weeks and I’m right in the middle of it,” said Reuss, whom Whitacre named to the post on Dec. 4. As to the CEO’s 2010 challenge for net income, Reuss said, “We’re going to make that, I think. I want to get the place profitable, I’m tired of it.”
Yeah I'd take an '11 Mustang over a Camaro also. Besides the bankruptcy image of GM hanging over it, Chevy gave the Camaro and some of its other vehicles a shot of ridiculousness by starring them in the Transformers movies. That's not quite targeting a more sophisticated image that GM needs!
"buff GM’s image one buyer at a time, if necessary. "
I am not sure who this Reuss fellow is. While he sounds like a nice guy, I would hate to pay him more than $20K/yr if he is indeed doing what he said he is doing: buff GM's image one buyer at a time.
Anything getting paid more than $20K should have figured out a far more efficient and effective way of approaching their customers.
"That's not quite targeting a more sophisticated image that GM needs!"
maybe GM is perfectly find selling to the redneck crowd? it sure sounds like a niche market and niche players make towns of money (BMW for example).
so by advertising in the Transformer, GM is simply retooling its market positioning and self-selecting out the sophisticated types that its new strategy doesn't want.
Funny, I'm considered Gen-X and I clearly remember the T-Types and Grand Nationals as well as Bobby Allison racing Buicks in NASCAR in the 1980s. My first car was a Buick when I was 16. Buicks have since then been very well-regarded by myself and my wife. Hey, if Boomers hate Buicks, that alone gives me another reason to love Buicks with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns!
My first thoughts upon hearing the name Buick is a solid, stately, dignified, respectable, powerful, durable, sensible, ultra-reliable car! To me, the only other automotive choice is a much more expensive Cadillac.
Not in my experience. GM cars tend to be less expensive and are dollar for dollar a much better bargain. The sales people are courteous and professional. I don't have to swim with the sharks and barracudas at the Toyota store who think they're doing me a favor.
Funny, I'm considered Gen-X and I clearly remember the T-Types and Grand Nationals as well as Bobby Allison racing Buicks in NASCAR in the 1980s. My first car was a Buick when I was 16. Buicks have since then been very well-regarded by myself and my wife. Hey, if Boomers hate Buicks, that alone gives me another reason to love Buicks with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns!
LOL, I'm originally from Indiana and have vivid memories of Buick's Turbo v6 leading the Indy 500 races until they blew up! I'd say the average late Gex-Xr wouldn't know a T-Type from a Calais. By the time I graduated from HS ('90) most of my friends had moved on to Civics, Accords, Preludes, and Mr2s.
That maybe partially why I've never cared much for GM back then either, I've always preferred a manual trans in a car. Not many desirable GM cars during the 80's could be bought that way (outside of a vette or Fbody) and the few that did always had a bad feeling shift linkage. Ford's have generally offered more manuals, and of course the asian makes almost always offered a manual. My wife and I never owned an auto until we "gulp" bought a minivan and now SUVs. When I buy another sedan, I would like a manual, that rules out about anything from GM (granted manuals are probably going away except for inexpensive compacts). I know it's a small market, but I still miss driving a stick.
I had a friend in high school that had an 86 or 87 T-Type, cool car up until it was stolen. Seems you couldn't keep a regal or cutlass long in the 80's. Thieves could steel them with a screw driver quicker than you or I could start them with a key. I know 3 people with those body style GM cars that had them stolen, my MIL had her '82 Cutlass stolen 3 times in 3 mos, the last time was the last time she saw it.
We have a small used car dealer up the road, they had an 87 Grand National for sale a few months ago. It was only on their lot 3 days until it was stolen and found it in Indianapolis. They did get it back pretty much unharmed. After that, I noticed they never left it outside when they were closed. Back in the late 80's I still preferred the T-Bird Turbo Coupe and the Tbird S/C. I just thought they were cool, they offered a manual, and they weren't a one trick pony like the T-Type and GN, they could offer a bit of handling and brakes, offered a manual trans, plus I just thought they were cooler (just my opinion of course) though sales of those T-birds and Cougars had to be much better than the Regals and Cutlass' back in the late 80's.
I don't know what happened to Buick after that. They never had much after the T-type or GNs after that. They haven't gained young buyers since. Maybe the new Regal can change that.
I don't have to swim with the sharks and barracudas at the Toyota store who think they're doing me a favor.
Anymore, i don't notice that anymore. They are all the same to me. My Ford dealer also owns Chevy, Buick, GMC, and Nissan all within the same complex. They have different building, but you can get to them all from the same parking lot.
I've dealt with service at Nissan, Saturn, VW, Chevy, Ford, Dodge and Buick. To me they are all the same and will clean your wallet quickly if given the opportunity.
The dealer my MIL bought her Toyota from had a Ford dealer basically in the same parking lot all under the same management. My FIL raves about their service. They give him $13 oil changes for as long as he owns the car.
When I bought my Nissan Pathfinder back in '01, that dealer had Jeep, Dodge, Nissan, Kia, and Hyundai. I went there to buy a Jeep Liberty, ended up test driving the Pathfinder, only to find to find it was 10x the vehicle of the Liberty so I bought it. They shared the same showroom and service dept.
By the time I graduated from HS ('90) most of my friends had moved on to Civics, Accords, Preludes, and Mr2s.
Well , I graduated in 1983. My best friend had several Chevrolets back then. He now has a Corvette and a Tahoe Hybrid. My wife had a 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 when she was in high school and now has a Buick LaCrosse. Another guy had a 1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo. He now has a Cadillac CTS. I had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. If anybody moved onto imports, it was Mercedes and BMW, no Asian makes.
When I buy another sedan, I would like a manual, that rules out about anything from GM
I believe the CTS has an available manual. Personally, I couldn't live with rowing through the gears in city traffic every day. I once had a girlfriend with a 1994 Jetta with a manual. I couldn't see how she could tolerate frequent gear-shifting in tight urban traffic.
Those Cutlass Supreme and Regal coupes were beautiful cars, but they were frequently stolen. I recall there was an aftermarket hardened-steel collar for the steering column where the ignition lock was located. This was to thwart thieves who would break the stock collar with a hammer and stick a screwdriver in the exposed ignition mechanism.
The worst fate I witnessed happen to a Grand National was the driver slamming it into the back of a crane truck merging onto US-1 North from Bensalem, PA in 1989.
Well , I graduated in 1983. My best friend had several Chevrolets back then. He now has a Corvette and a Tahoe Hybrid. My wife had a 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 when she was in high school and now has a Buick LaCrosse. Another guy had a 1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo. He now has a Cadillac CTS. I had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. If anybody moved onto imports, it was Mercedes and BMW, no Asian makes.
I remember all those cars you've mentioned, but in the 7 years that separate you and I, GM has lost a lot of customers. My wife and I are the only one's in our respective families that drive domestic. Just about all of our friends drive asian or german cars. If any have a domestic, it's a truck or SUV. I can't remember the last time someone I know personally has purchased a new GM car and all of our friends and family live in the midwest, it's not like we're from the west coast.
Personally, I couldn't live with rowing through the gears in city traffic every day.
I understand, but I still prefer a manual, even when I routinely drove in Chicago traffic. I just thoroughly enjoy a manual. I realize I'm in the minority.
I'm about 5 years younger than you, and I grew up on the west coast...but in podunk, so the cars I recall were more like lemko's memories. My first car was a 66 Galaxie 500, and being in a small town where there wasn't a big have vs have-nots drama, kids would drive anything they could get ahold of. I remember my friends having everything from big domestic pickups to lame 90s style lowered pickups to Civics and Escorts and anything inbetween...and a beater didn't cause shame, it was more fun than the bus! I remember one jerky guy drove a Citation (maybe that's why he was that way) and a friend of mine had an 80s Trans Am - he hated it, it was a hand me down, and the t-tops and rear glass leaked. Those are the only GM cars I remember at that time. My roommate and still good friend from college fixated on 80s Monte Carlo SS ...he owns a couple of period Montes, but only one is really in decent shape, and his "normal" car is a Mazda 6...he's not attracted to anything Chevy makes today, and he loathed the Lumina-Impala Montes. GM lost some people with such cars....just as my dad walked away from GM and never came back after buying a horrible S-10 Blazer.
I can think of only two relatives who drive GM cars, and they are both nearing retirement age. One drives a 10 year old LeSabre, the other an HHR. I wonder what that representation would have looked like 40 or 50 years ago.
I wonder what that representation would have looked like 40 or 50 years ago.
It would be a lot different no doubt.
I can remember lots of beaters in HS too. Some kids had some nice classics, like old Camaro's and Chevelle's etc. I had a friend a few years older than me that had a late 60's Impalla SS with a 327 and powerglide trans and another kid who had a 69 Camaro 327 (I think) with a 4 speed. Their were a few mid 80's Mustang GTs, T/A's, and IROCZs etc. I really had the hots for a girl how had an 86 Mustang SVO, not a bad ride for HS. So I don't want to sound like no one drove domestics. But many of kids who's parents bought them newer cars (that wasn't a mustang or camaro)or those who were in a position to buy a new car within a year or two out of HS were not buying domestic compacts. Most were buying asian compacts.
and the t-tops and rear glass leaked.
Oh the memories. Those T-tops always leaked. I had a really good friend with an 81 T/A with a 301 v8. My 86 Escort with a 4 speed manual could beat it to about 50. It was very slow. The t-tops always leaked, it was definitely a POC, but hey it was fun.
Unfortunately,that is only TO YOU - not to the general public and that`s what that matters... Sorry,but GM is in the drain with no recourse.. Sad but true ! :shades:
Why??? The Lacrosse has been flying off the lots with only $1000, and the CXS routinely lists for $36-38K ( Mine listed for $38770).
Because you can get a BMW for the same $35K, among others (G37x included). That's why they are lowering the prices for CTS then Malibu. They are OVERPRICED from the start.
Besides, the LaCrosse will sell about 30K-40K units/yr., not exactly hard to keep up with producing that volume.
Probably more than 50% would have been GM. None of my immediate family owns a GM product anymore, not a single one. My brother had a Lumina "Euro" many years ago...that's as close as I can get. Now he drives a Toyota.
Old cars were seen as cooler in the small town than I think they would be in the city. A guy a couple years older than me had a gorgeous and bone stock 64 Impala, I thought it was beautiful, black on red. An acquaintance of mine had a 66 Mustang GT that he cleaned up and took good care of too, it was the same dark blue as my Galaxie...but I had the big 390. No kids running around in new BMWs etc. The nicest car in the lot was probably the 4WS Prelude driven by a doctor's daughter...both her and the car seemed really cool. The guy I knew with the TA actually preferred to drive the fancy model K-car his family had as a second car...better mileage, not a lot slower, and it didn't smell a little funny inside. I rode in it a few times...sitting very low, with that dashboard that seemed a mile behind the windshield. That TA was only about 10 years old then...cars sure aged faster even 15 years ago, especially GM cars. The Tempo my family had a second car aged much better...probably because I learned cosmetic maintenance on it, and always kept it detailed.
I was impressed with 30 mpg from the V6 Fusion rental recently, but very unimpressed with the road noise and overall noisiness of the Fusion with 45000 miles on it. It was quiet at a red light. My very limited experience with $25k+ msrp GM cars is that they are as quiet at 100k miles as when they are new. My last GM car like that was built in '95 or '96 and my friend tried to start it when it was already running last year.
My sister bought a new G35 in '03. She used it sparingly and sold it a year ago with less than 30k miles on it. She got about 75% of her money back. I sat in it in her garage once. I'd love to have got hers. She sold it about what a new Malibu LS stickers for.
New cars too expensive??? Not same for trucks. My '01 Silverado stickered for $31k. Two years ago I was looking at new ones and the new ones were about the same price as 6 or 7 years earlier. The new ones were bigger, had numerous new features on them, and came with a much longer warranty and the Gen 4 engines.
I didn't see the autotrac 4WD option on any of them that mine has. I got $8k discount off msrp when I bought mine. Not sure how doable that is these days. Unfortunately with $3500 in GM card earnings built up since, buying non GM means paying at least $2k more for the same trim level for me vs ford, hundai, honda, etc.
but that's more of a function of other OEMs got a lot better than where they were and than where GM was / is, not a function of GM getting worse.
Another way to put it, because buyers had limited choices then, they did not have a frame of comparison. That frame of comparison really came into place in the 1980s with the Japanese and throughout 1990s with both the Japanese and the Germans and then 2000 with the Koreans.
Cars buyers today know a lot better and have a lot more choices than those in the 1950/60s did.
To their credit, GM and the big3 make far better cars than they did back then. it is just that everybody else improved at a faster rate, which left GM behind.
I was impressed with 30 mpg from the V6 Fusion rental recently, but very unimpressed with the road noise and overall noisiness of the Fusion with 45000 miles on it. It was quiet at a red light. My very limited experience with $25k+ msrp GM cars is that they are as quiet at 100k miles as when they are new. My last GM car like that was built in '95 or '96 and my friend tried to start it when it was already running last year.
Just depends on the car I guess. I've not been in many under $25k cars that I'd say is quiet. My wife's GP is far from quiet. With nearly 60k, it's starting to squeak and rattle. The 3800 is far from quiet when pushed. I don't think it has much if any sound insulation, as a drive through a puddle sounds like the water is going to jet through the fenders. The biggest sound producer is the tires. The stock Eagle RS-A's were fairly quiet to about 30k, then they started getting really loud. Had them replaced and since it's a company car, we had no say on the replacements. They put on Daytons and they are loud to. The create a ton or road noise. My 07 Expedition is tomb quiet in comparison.
I didn't see the autotrac 4WD option on any of them that mine has.
I have not seen that option on many GM trucks or any pickups. I'd think most people would want it. It makes 4wd more usable. Heck, I think Ford still uses manual locking hubs and auto locking hubs is an option on the 3/4 and 1 tons. I don't know if it's still that way or not.
I've never driven a Fusion, but I have driven a couple of Mazda 6's which share platforms. I found the Mazda 6 to be a great handling and fun to drive car, but it did seem a bit loud and cheap. It didn't feel real solid to me. That was a few years ago and I've read that is an area that has been improved with the new 6 and Fusion.
Squeaks and rattles drive me nuts though. Just about every domestic I've owned has developed them at one point or another. My Suburban was bad. Everything from the dash back to the tail gate would rattle and squeak.
My Expedition is much tighter overall but it to has started to develop a couple of squeaks. One in in the dash that arises when it's about 85 degrees or so and the other is in the moonroof when it's below 20 degrees. Plus the power drivers seat creaks when I sit in it, move around, or hit a rough patch of road. It's annoying.
Probably the worst car we had was my wife's 92 Saturn SL2. It rattled like a maraca.
Just sit in the Camry and then check the noise.The Camry is the quietest family sedan out there today even on rough and bumpy roads. Personally,I just cant tolerate squeaks and rattles --just drives me mad. A car that rattles a lot indicates that it was built and assembled very poorly. I dont know if present day GM cars are quiet and rattle free,but I did drive a new 09 Fusion rental car with 3000 miles and it was good..Decent-yes,class leading - no way..The Camcord are much better in terms of fit and finish and the materials quality. Had a 98 Saturn long time back-typical GM car-poor at that time. Hopefully they are much better now.
My wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse is still squeak and rattle-free after 5 years and 46K+ miles and she drives it rather aggressively. Heck, I don't remember my 1988 Buick Park Avenue rattling or squeaking much after all that time.
Comments
bingo!
you hit the nail right in the head.
which gm has a long and well proven record of doing consistently.
Fact is, a sport sedan with a manual trans from a non German automaker is going to be a slow seller. I think GM needs to offer an auto with the GS trim to help sell more and allow them to sell this model a bit cheaper. If Mazda couldn't sell many Mazdaspeed 6's no way can Buick sell many Regal GS's with a manual trans only. Not going to happen. While I'd buy the manual in heartbeat, most people won't. Granted most Buick owners probably started driving when all you had were manuals, so maybe nostalgia will help sell a few;) Could add a hand crank start option too. LOL
A Regal GS at $35K will be left on the dealers lots until the incentives arrive...and then the horrible residuals kick in and then....the usual GM failed strategy!
Regards,
OW
That's bona-fide bad-[non-permissible content removed]! :shades:
They say late next year, but hopefully much sooner than that!
Wouldn't you get one for $16k?
Rusty
Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Co. is cutting prices and reworking ads to revive sales of two sedans that executives consider vital to meeting Chairman Ed Whitacre’s goal for a 2010 profit.
A little nervous about prices? Duhhh!
Malibu and CTS inventory reached a five-month supply in late 2009, more than double the industry average of roughly two months, Reuss said. The CTS was priced too high against models such as Bayerische Motoren Werke AG’s 3-Series, he said.
GM slashed CTS prices this week by as much as $3,000, said Steve Shannon, executive director of marketing for Cadillac. One popular version was pared to $39,990 from $42,255, with monthly lease payments dropping to $369 from $417, he said. BMW’s U.S. Web site advertises 3-Series leases for as low as $379.
What have I been saying?
Full Article: Too Expensive
Regards,
OW
Remember the EV1?
Specific GM overprice example: Everyone in this forum was probably aware that Pontiac and Saturn in their last days were offering $7,000 + any dealer discounts to move the last 40K or so Pontiacs and Saturns. Who here went and bought one? Why not? You couldn't find anything you liked at a price you could justify right? Then what chance does GM have of selling many of their similar vehicles in the other divisions near regular price?
I still wouldn't go look at a Cadillac CTS at $40K. Take $10K off and throw in a 5 yr bumper-to-bumper warranty w/all maintenance and I'd have a 50% chance of buying.
The economy is still in a whole-lot-of-hurt as yesterday's job numbers show, and consider when the government stimulus runs out (they can't keepe borrowing forever), what condition we're going to be in! The main-stream middle-class auto buyer pool is much smaller now due to layoffs AND the threat of future layoffs. Very few middle-income people are running out to put a $30K vehicle + all the taxes + all the insurance in their garages.
the auto companies in general and GM in particular have no idea what is about to hit them. 10 million vehicles / year kind of market is here to stay. Any auto OEM who can not turn a profit at that level is going to die, very soon.
Hopefully, UAW will die with them as well.
The companies that have lost the war in the U.S. need to reinvent themselves. Chrysler is on this track with Fiat, planning on dumping most of their current models and bringing in new Euro. models which really have few competitors in the U.S. (If you read the Chrysler-Fiat forum, you'll realize I'm a vocal critic of this happening with U.S. taxpayer $, and not Fiat or some other private source of $).
Anyway GM should be thinking about a major change in product, and stop taking U.S. taxpayer $ and doing the same old things they have done before, which failed before! That makes no sense. Bringing out another $30K 190", 3700 LB, 4-dr sedan with 250hp, just like Brand-X has not worked for various reasons. It didn't work 20 years ago and it didn't work 10 years ago, and guess what today - it won't work!
GM will continue to lose market-share and need government aid forever, with this strategy; given they are operating basicaslly the same way they have for many years of decline.
If GM wants to try and make $ on cars like Malibus and CTS'S they need to sell volume - keeping the factories humming. In order to do this, they need to make their vehicles comparable in quality and content as the competition. So if a Sonata is selling for $22K MSRP and actually sells for $17K on the street, GM had better sell that Malibu for less to get a high volume and push the competition out; or get out of the game.
why would anyone lease a CTS when a comparably equip'd BMW is about the same? it does not make sense to anyone with common sense but those folks at GM.
At to paying back taxpayer $, well, the "let's be honest" politicians wouldn't tell you this but your billions of bailout money in Chrysler / GM was long gone, and you shouldn't pray to get it back.
you are lucky if the government doesn't "invest", as the "let's be honest" politicians would so fashionably say, more of your money on your behalf in GM.
Funny thing is the D3 kept letting the competition best them in almost every category of car in the US except for the Corvette and the Mustang. Finally Ford has some answers but is along way from claiming victory but at least they aren't total failures like GM.
Just like the Camaro, GM is ALWAYS late to the game. Now it will be harder to price their derelict vehicles right to drive sales and make a profit because once again, they're late!!
Reuss said he’s using a page on the Facebook social networking Web site to keep in contact with customers and buff GM’s image one buyer at a time, if necessary.
“I’ve been here two weeks and I’m right in the middle of it,” said Reuss, whom Whitacre named to the post on Dec. 4. As to the CEO’s 2010 challenge for net income, Reuss said, “We’re going to make that, I think. I want to get the place profitable, I’m tired of it.”
Well, HELLO....SO ARE WE!! Pay up or SHUT UP!
Regards,
OW
I am not sure who this Reuss fellow is. While he sounds like a nice guy, I would hate to pay him more than $20K/yr if he is indeed doing what he said he is doing: buff GM's image one buyer at a time.
Anything getting paid more than $20K should have figured out a far more efficient and effective way of approaching their customers.
how do you know the devil is willing to buy your soul from you?
maybe GM is perfectly find selling to the redneck crowd? it sure sounds like a niche market and niche players make towns of money (BMW for example).
so by advertising in the Transformer, GM is simply retooling its market positioning and self-selecting out the sophisticated types that its new strategy doesn't want.
Regards,
OW
What's wrong with a nailhead??? I have one in my Buick, and it's been purring like a kitten for 45 years. That's why it's called a Wildcat.
It won't matter. If you build it, and they like it, they will buy it.
Why??? The Lacrosse has been flying off the lots with only $1000, and the CXS routinely lists for $36-38K ( Mine listed for $38770).
He bought yours.......... :shades:
link title
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That "wild" in the "Wildcat" means something totally different.
that's correct.
your Buick comes with an automatic AARP membership, paid for by GM.
yes, except that GM's are more expensive than others. that's why they tend to be left on the lot to stink.
LOL, I'm originally from Indiana and have vivid memories of Buick's Turbo v6 leading the Indy 500 races until they blew up! I'd say the average late Gex-Xr wouldn't know a T-Type from a Calais. By the time I graduated from HS ('90) most of my friends had moved on to Civics, Accords, Preludes, and Mr2s.
That maybe partially why I've never cared much for GM back then either, I've always preferred a manual trans in a car. Not many desirable GM cars during the 80's could be bought that way (outside of a vette or Fbody) and the few that did always had a bad feeling shift linkage. Ford's have generally offered more manuals, and of course the asian makes almost always offered a manual. My wife and I never owned an auto until we "gulp" bought a minivan and now SUVs. When I buy another sedan, I would like a manual, that rules out about anything from GM (granted manuals are probably going away except for inexpensive compacts). I know it's a small market, but I still miss driving a stick.
I had a friend in high school that had an 86 or 87 T-Type, cool car up until it was stolen. Seems you couldn't keep a regal or cutlass long in the 80's. Thieves could steel them with a screw driver quicker than you or I could start them with a key. I know 3 people with those body style GM cars that had them stolen, my MIL had her '82 Cutlass stolen 3 times in 3 mos, the last time was the last time she saw it.
We have a small used car dealer up the road, they had an 87 Grand National for sale a few months ago. It was only on their lot 3 days until it was stolen and found it in Indianapolis. They did get it back pretty much unharmed. After that, I noticed they never left it outside when they were closed. Back in the late 80's I still preferred the T-Bird Turbo Coupe and the Tbird S/C. I just thought they were cool, they offered a manual, and they weren't a one trick pony like the T-Type and GN, they could offer a bit of handling and brakes, offered a manual trans, plus I just thought they were cooler (just my opinion of course) though sales of those T-birds and Cougars had to be much better than the Regals and Cutlass' back in the late 80's.
I don't know what happened to Buick after that. They never had much after the T-type or GNs after that. They haven't gained young buyers since. Maybe the new Regal can change that.
Anymore, i don't notice that anymore. They are all the same to me. My Ford dealer also owns Chevy, Buick, GMC, and Nissan all within the same complex. They have different building, but you can get to them all from the same parking lot.
I've dealt with service at Nissan, Saturn, VW, Chevy, Ford, Dodge and Buick. To me they are all the same and will clean your wallet quickly if given the opportunity.
The dealer my MIL bought her Toyota from had a Ford dealer basically in the same parking lot all under the same management. My FIL raves about their service. They give him $13 oil changes for as long as he owns the car.
When I bought my Nissan Pathfinder back in '01, that dealer had Jeep, Dodge, Nissan, Kia, and Hyundai. I went there to buy a Jeep Liberty, ended up test driving the Pathfinder, only to find to find it was 10x the vehicle of the Liberty so I bought it. They shared the same showroom and service dept.
you don't want to or you cannot?
I love swimming with the sharks. I guess it is a man thing?
It depends on where you live. if you live in a more progressive part of the country, yes you are right.
if you live in the backwoods (aka "Deliverance"), ...
Well , I graduated in 1983. My best friend had several Chevrolets back then. He now has a Corvette and a Tahoe Hybrid. My wife had a 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 when she was in high school and now has a Buick LaCrosse. Another guy had a 1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo. He now has a Cadillac CTS. I had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. If anybody moved onto imports, it was Mercedes and BMW, no Asian makes.
When I buy another sedan, I would like a manual, that rules out about anything from GM
I believe the CTS has an available manual. Personally, I couldn't live with rowing through the gears in city traffic every day. I once had a girlfriend with a 1994 Jetta with a manual. I couldn't see how she could tolerate frequent gear-shifting in tight urban traffic.
Those Cutlass Supreme and Regal coupes were beautiful cars, but they were frequently stolen. I recall there was an aftermarket hardened-steel collar for the steering column where the ignition lock was located. This was to thwart thieves who would break the stock collar with a hammer and stick a screwdriver in the exposed ignition mechanism.
The worst fate I witnessed happen to a Grand National was the driver slamming it into the back of a crane truck merging onto US-1 North from Bensalem, PA in 1989.
she is too young to drive THAT car.
I just took a look at it on youtube. OMG!!!!
I now do think GM's new strategy of focusing on certain niche market makes tons of sense. Those buyers deserve those GM cars.
everybit of it.
I remember all those cars you've mentioned, but in the 7 years that separate you and I, GM has lost a lot of customers. My wife and I are the only one's in our respective families that drive domestic. Just about all of our friends drive asian or german cars. If any have a domestic, it's a truck or SUV. I can't remember the last time someone I know personally has purchased a new GM car and all of our friends and family live in the midwest, it's not like we're from the west coast.
Personally, I couldn't live with rowing through the gears in city traffic every day.
I understand, but I still prefer a manual, even when I routinely drove in Chicago traffic. I just thoroughly enjoy a manual. I realize I'm in the minority.
I can think of only two relatives who drive GM cars, and they are both nearing retirement age. One drives a 10 year old LeSabre, the other an HHR. I wonder what that representation would have looked like 40 or 50 years ago.
It would be a lot different no doubt.
I can remember lots of beaters in HS too. Some kids had some nice classics, like old Camaro's and Chevelle's etc. I had a friend a few years older than me that had a late 60's Impalla SS with a 327 and powerglide trans and another kid who had a 69 Camaro 327 (I think) with a 4 speed. Their were a few mid 80's Mustang GTs, T/A's, and IROCZs etc. I really had the hots for a girl how had an 86 Mustang SVO, not a bad ride for HS. So I don't want to sound like no one drove domestics. But many of kids who's parents bought them newer cars (that wasn't a mustang or camaro)or those who were in a position to buy a new car within a year or two out of HS were not buying domestic compacts. Most were buying asian compacts.
and the t-tops and rear glass leaked.
Oh the memories. Those T-tops always leaked. I had a really good friend with an 81 T/A with a 301 v8. My 86 Escort with a 4 speed manual could beat it to about 50. It was very slow. The t-tops always leaked, it was definitely a POC, but hey it was fun.
Because you can get a BMW for the same $35K, among others (G37x included). That's why they are lowering the prices for CTS then Malibu. They are OVERPRICED from the start.
Besides, the LaCrosse will sell about 30K-40K units/yr., not exactly hard to keep up with producing that volume.
REgards,
OW
Old cars were seen as cooler in the small town than I think they would be in the city. A guy a couple years older than me had a gorgeous and bone stock 64 Impala, I thought it was beautiful, black on red. An acquaintance of mine had a 66 Mustang GT that he cleaned up and took good care of too, it was the same dark blue as my Galaxie...but I had the big 390. No kids running around in new BMWs etc. The nicest car in the lot was probably the 4WS Prelude driven by a doctor's daughter...both her and the car seemed really cool. The guy I knew with the TA actually preferred to drive the fancy model K-car his family had as a second car...better mileage, not a lot slower, and it didn't smell a little funny inside. I rode in it a few times...sitting very low, with that dashboard that seemed a mile behind the windshield. That TA was only about 10 years old then...cars sure aged faster even 15 years ago, especially GM cars. The Tempo my family had a second car aged much better...probably because I learned cosmetic maintenance on it, and always kept it detailed.
New cars too expensive???
Not same for trucks. My '01 Silverado stickered for $31k. Two years ago I was looking at new ones and the new ones were about the same price as 6 or 7 years earlier. The new ones were bigger, had numerous new features on them, and came with a much longer warranty and the Gen 4 engines.
I didn't see the autotrac 4WD option on any of them that mine has. I got $8k discount off msrp when I bought mine. Not sure how doable that is these days. Unfortunately with $3500 in GM card earnings built up since, buying non GM means paying at least $2k more for the same trim level for me vs ford, hundai, honda, etc.
but that's more of a function of other OEMs got a lot better than where they were and than where GM was / is, not a function of GM getting worse.
Another way to put it, because buyers had limited choices then, they did not have a frame of comparison. That frame of comparison really came into place in the 1980s with the Japanese and throughout 1990s with both the Japanese and the Germans and then 2000 with the Koreans.
Cars buyers today know a lot better and have a lot more choices than those in the 1950/60s did.
To their credit, GM and the big3 make far better cars than they did back then. it is just that everybody else improved at a faster rate, which left GM behind.
Just depends on the car I guess. I've not been in many under $25k cars that I'd say is quiet. My wife's GP is far from quiet. With nearly 60k, it's starting to squeak and rattle. The 3800 is far from quiet when pushed. I don't think it has much if any sound insulation, as a drive through a puddle sounds like the water is going to jet through the fenders. The biggest sound producer is the tires. The stock Eagle RS-A's were fairly quiet to about 30k, then they started getting really loud. Had them replaced and since it's a company car, we had no say on the replacements. They put on Daytons and they are loud to. The create a ton or road noise. My 07 Expedition is tomb quiet in comparison.
I have not seen that option on many GM trucks or any pickups. I'd think most people would want it. It makes 4wd more usable. Heck, I think Ford still uses manual locking hubs and auto locking hubs is an option on the 3/4 and 1 tons. I don't know if it's still that way or not.
Squeaks and rattles drive me nuts though. Just about every domestic I've owned has developed them at one point or another. My Suburban was bad. Everything from the dash back to the tail gate would rattle and squeak.
My Expedition is much tighter overall but it to has started to develop a couple of squeaks. One in in the dash that arises when it's about 85 degrees or so and the other is in the moonroof when it's below 20 degrees. Plus the power drivers seat creaks when I sit in it, move around, or hit a rough patch of road. It's annoying.
Probably the worst car we had was my wife's 92 Saturn SL2. It rattled like a maraca.
nor would you see that in those supercars either.
But the camry I4 is very quiet, even at high way speed.
not sure why that's preferable, though.
Personally,I just cant tolerate squeaks and rattles --just drives me mad. A car that rattles a lot indicates that it was built and assembled very poorly. I dont know if present day GM cars are quiet and rattle free,but I did drive a new 09 Fusion rental car with 3000 miles and it was good..Decent-yes,class leading - no way..The Camcord are much better in terms of fit and finish and the materials quality.
Had a 98 Saturn long time back-typical GM car-poor at that time. Hopefully they are much better now.