Next you'll be complaining that the Corvette doesn't have a V12 in it... Sheesh. I wouldn't!!! I LOVE vette's engine, best in the class. I am not big fun of turbo. I don't get why GM don't make an extra effort and makes Corvette flawless.
Heck, I'll pay that gas-guzzler tax for a high-performance, high HP V-8 in my Caddy! Dang! If I can't get a V-8 in a Caddy, I might just have to defect to Mercedes.
I already don't think much of that truncated Lincoln MKS with its dinky V-6 engine. I'd rather have a Town Car, even if it is a dinosaur.
Will Lexus be affected as they are part of Toyota?
Heck, I'll pay that gas-guzzler tax for a high-performance, high HP V-8 in my Caddy! Dang! If I can't get a V-8 in a Caddy, I might just have to defect to Mercedes.
I already don't think much of that truncated Lincoln MKS with its dinky V-6 engine. I'd rather have a Town Car, even if it is a dinosaur.
Well times are a changin. That dinky MKS Ecoboost v6 will smoke any v6 or v8 Cadillac that doesn't have a V on the end of it. Sure it doesn't sound like a v8, but they days of turbo lag are over. The current crop are incredible with torque curves that just can't be duplicated in a n/a engine w/o going with a large displacement v8, and with fuel and emission regs coming, I'm afraid the v8 is on thin ice.
I've not read anything on any further development of the Northstar v8, no talk of DI, or any type of other revisions to increase power, fuel economy, or emissions. Looks like they may be going the route of mating the 3.6 with a hybrid setup to get v8 like power and better efficiency.
Enough with the doom & gloom & phobia. Read George Friedman's "the next 100 years" and see nicely GM can fit into that future! The doom/gloom stuff about the very-large Asian countries is old news, old nonsense. To the extent it is relevant here, the more the doom&gloom crew are correct, isn't that better news for long term GM market share & future? "What's good for China is Good for GM." As for Taiwan not being part of China, that may change peacefully if the USA doesn't keep paying the weekly vig. (How well do Buicks sell in Taiwan currently?) Doesn't It all looks like 'market opportunity' for GM as well as USA in general?
That new Ecoboost does sound like an impressive engine, even if it doesn't have the sound of a V-8. I just wish the Lincolns were more impressive looking these days. Like Lemko, I don't really care for that new MKS. It seems like it's very well put-together, and it has a nice interior, but it just lacks presence, IMO.
I know it'll never happen, but I wonder what kind of result Lincoln would get if they took the Town Car and put an Ecoboost and 6-speed automatic in it?
Is this an advertisment from the Beijing Ministry of Propaganda? :shades:
China has been chosen for cheap exploitable labor and its lack of social and environmental standards above all else. This is why westerners worked so hard to open it during their ultra-criminal red times.
Like Lemko, I don't really care for that new MKS. It seems like it's very well put-together, and it has a nice interior, but it just lacks presence, IMO.
Yeah, it doesn't really do anything for me either, Lincoln has been kind of lost for a while.
I know it'll never happen, but I wonder what kind of result Lincoln would get if they took the Town Car and put an Ecoboost and 6-speed automatic in it?
Well, looks like Ford is going to offer the Ecoboost in just about everything that needs power. F150, Expedition, Taurus, Flex, MKX, MKS etc. Why not the Town Car? But it looks like they are letting it die a slow and painful death. The TC is so out of date overall I don't know where they'd start.
but I wonder what kind of result Lincoln would get if they took the Town Car and put an Ecoboost and 6-speed automatic in it?
A Panther platform car without a V8...blasphemy. Unfortunately, the Town Car and the Panther platform is all but dead. What I wish for from either Ford or the General is a large RWD car with a potent V6 (300HP with a V8 option) that can be had for upper 30s - 40. The G8 was a nice effort but not quite there for us luxo barge types. I know its been talked about here before but the G8s chassis would make a great new Impala or Buick Park Av/Electra. I guess with all the other things going on at GM a low volume large RWD car is just not feasible right now.
A Panther platform car without a V8...blasphemy. Unfortunately, the Town Car and the Panther platform is all but dead.
Ahh yes, I forgot about the fact that, over these 30+ years, there has NEVER been anything smaller than a V-8 in a Panther! Even at its lowest point, the early 80's, the base engine was a 4.2L/255CID V-8 with 112 hp.
I wonder what the police and taxi market is going to do when the Panther is finally put to rest? While the cars are getting outdated, they still have some good qualities that make them desirable to these markets, such as being durable, cheap-to-fix, can take a licking and keep on ticking, etc. A Hemi Charger or rebadged G8 police car might be great performers, but hop a few curbs with 'em, push a stranded car or two out of the way, etc, and they're probably going to be shot.
I wonder what the police and taxi market is going to do when the Panther is finally put to rest?
You can be sure they are going to miss them. They can take a beating. On New Years Eve the GF and I needed a taxicab ride home (for obvious reasons) and it was a 98 - 02 Town Car and the odometer read 485,XXX miles. I just have a hard time believing a FWD Impala or the Charger could do that.
You can be sure they are going to miss them. They can take a beating.
Yeah, they are probably tougher and more durable than most SUVs. My dad had a '92 Crown Vic that myself and my younger brother and sister all beat the hell out of. He finally got rid of it in '00 with 240k miles w/o many issues. Granted the engine was tired and burning oil and overall it was worn out.
Those were nice cars 20 years ago. But I wouldn't want one now. I remember really liking my dads CV back in the early 90's. But 10 years ago I had an opportunity to buy a '94 Grand Marquis with low miles and a low price from an estate sale in Florida. After a 20 minute drive I thought it sucked. Slow, sloppy, and well just old feeling. Certainly not something I would want now.
Actually the '04 and newer ones drive a bit better with the addition of rack and pinion steering. My Grandfather has a 04 Grand Marq and I must say I do enjoy driving it.
Enough with the doom & gloom & phobia. Read George Friedman's "the next 100 years" and see nicely GM can fit into that future!
100 Years! :confuse: :confuse: My advice to anyone here is you might have found an excellent forecaster if he even gets 50% correct of what's going to happen in the next year. And the accuracy would go downhill quickly after that. A sudden war, a government collapse, a major pandemic, bank collapses, or major technology breakthrough are examples of things that can change the world.
Learn from history of the foolishness of the predictions from famous people. If you want lots of GM-specific examples go back the last 30 years and get quotes from the executives of GM on how X and Y was going to make GM better. :P
Looks like I'll be hanging onto my 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS indefinately.
That's the car that you do most of your driving with, right? How many miles do you have on it now? I'm guessing that with only 10,000 miles on that new DTS, you'll probably have THAT one indefinitely!
I'm planning on driving my Park Ave until it drops...or it gets totaled. Hopefully I'll get at least a few good years out of it.
The Mercury is my everyday hooptie, especially for winter with all the salt and slop. Even when the ground is dry, the tires kick up all the salt dust and it adheres to the body sides.
The Grand Marquis has about 84K on it right now.If those stories about NYC Town Cars are to be believed, I could still have the car for some time.
I could have the DTS indefinately unless that XTS turns out to be as nice as the concept appears to be.
".....The case is not the same with the LaCrosse/XTS. Not only a V8 can't fit, but also the 3.8L, as both have an angle too wide for the new FWD orientation."
Not true. A look back at a C&D article on the Lacrosse proves this:
"......A quick look under the hood suggests—and a quick call to the powertrain engineers confirms—that two more cylinders are an easy fit up front. Sadly, the days of the gratuitous V-8 are probably gone for good."
Maybe for the Lacrosse, but a new Lucerne/ XTS off that platform??? A can do.
I don't think by just looking under the hood, one can tell whether a v8 will fit or not. But I haven't seen anything official on whether a v8 will or will not fit. The only thing I've read v8 wise is a new LS series is possibly being developed. So maybe a new push-rod LS v8 could be offered.
I don't care if there are Vettes that can run 10000 RPM all day long in the SCCA circuit, in a modern luxury flagship, people are going to want a smooth, refined DOHC motor with a wide powerband, not some overbearing, throwback to the 60's muscle car. Shoot, you might as well go ahead and Carb the thing if you go that route... :sick:
The LS460 should be the benchmark here, not a Camaro for the luxury market.
I don't care if there are Vettes that can run 10000 RPM all day long in the SCCA circuit, in a modern luxury flagship, people are going to want a smooth, refined DOHC motor with a wide powerband, not some overbearing, throwback to the 60's muscle car. Shoot, you might as well go ahead and Carb the thing if you go that route... :sick:
No kidding. Unless GM engineers some advances to improve NVH of the OHV layout, that would be a huge mistake.
I've sampled a few 6.2s in the Denali/Escalade and luxury refined it is not. Not that it's a bad engine, far from it, but it doesn't purr, that's for sure.
This guy has got to go if the company wants to present a new and refreshed image. He keeps putting his foot in his mouth.
GM's Lutz: Higher gas tax would help
The vice chairman of General Motors is a frequent critic of fuel economy rules and once declared that global warming was a "total crock" of excrement, although he used a more common and colorful word in that description.
Lutz also declared in 2004 that hybrid cars didn't make sense to sell or buy. And just this week, as he and GM were hyping the new electric Chevrolet Volt, at Detroit's North American International Auto Show, he declared that internal combustion engines would dominate the auto industry for the next 20 years, no matter what advances were made in electric vehicles.
And you on this board wonder why market share keeps going down? :mad:
The Toyota Prius is the best-selling hybrid car in America. On its own, it accounts for more than half of all hybrids sold in America. It is Toyota's third best-selling model after the Camry mid-sized sedan and the Corolla compact car.
I don't think by just looking under the hood, one can tell whether a v8 will fit or not. But I haven't seen anything official on whether a v8 will or will not fit.
I forgot where I read that a V-8 wouldn't fit. I think it was on a Consumer Guide website, but not sure. However, I'm sure with enough time, effort, and money, a V-8 could be made to fit! After all, I've seen a 426 Hemi in a PT Cruiser, a 440 Wedge in a mid'70's Dodge Colt hardtop coupe, and a 351W in a Ford Focus!
Just takes a good imagination and a blow torch. :P
I forgot where I read that a V-8 wouldn't fit. I think it was on a Consumer Guide website, but not sure. However, I'm sure with enough time, effort, and money, a V-8 could be made to fit! After all, I've seen a 426 Hemi in a PT Cruiser, a 440 Wedge in a mid'70's Dodge Colt hardtop coupe, and a 351W in a Ford Focus!
Just takes a good imagination and a blow torch. :P
Don't forget Dodge's v10 motorcycle! I guess that wouldn't take as much cutting though.
Lutz also declared in 2004 that hybrid cars didn't make sense to sell or buy. And just this week, as he and GM were hyping the new electric Chevrolet Volt, at Detroit's North American International Auto Show, he declared that internal combustion engines would dominate the auto industry for the next 20 years, no matter what advances were made in electric vehicles.
And you on this board wonder why market share keeps going down?
Lutz also declared in 2004 that hybrid cars didn't make sense to sell or buy.
Well I guess he was 1/2 right. IMO, they don't make a whole lot of sense to buy (at current fuel prices and the prices in '04), but if people are willing to buy them, plus the government is willing to subsidize them, and it can help your reputation of being green (think Toyota) then maybe you have to listen to the market and build them.
Well I guess he was 1/2 right. IMO, they don't make a whole lot of sense to buy (at current fuel prices and the prices in '04), but if people are willing to buy them, plus the government is willing to subsidize them, and it can help your reputation of being green (think Toyota) then maybe you have to listen to the market and build them.
Plus, I think another reason the Prius sells so well is that for all intents and purposes, it IS the hybrid sedan market. There's really nothing else out there that competes with it. Everybody else tried to take existing sedans and hybridize them, usually giving up trunk space in the process. And none of 'em had EPA estimates anywhere near the Prius.
I guess Honda's making a more serious effort with the new Insight, although it's more of a compact than the Prius...plus it still doesn't get Prius economy...although it does come in at a lower price. And I guess the new Fusion is a good attempt at a mainstream sedan that's been hybridized...although it still doesn't get Prius-type numbers.
So my guess is that what you're seeing in Prius sales is pretty much the whole market for that type of car. Kinda like how the Mustang scores good sales because it's pretty much been the only ponycar game in town for years. Get more players in these niche markets, and you might see a small increase in total sales, but in the end, everyone just ends up with a smaller piece of the pie.
So my guess is that what you're seeing in Prius sales is pretty much the whole market for that type of car. Kinda like how the Mustang scores good sales because it's pretty much owned the ponycar market for years. Get more players in these niche markets, and you might see a small increase in total sales, but in the end, everyone just ends up with a smaller piece of the pie.
That's pretty much how I see it too. It will be interesting to see what happens as gas creeps back up around $3/gal. Will people panic and take a $10-15k hit on their trade so they can save maybe $2k/yr on gas...LOL.
>So my guess is that what you're seeing in Prius sales is pretty much the whole market for that type of car. Kinda like how the Mustang scores good sales because it's pretty much been the only ponycar game in town for years.
I think Prius is actually one of their bigger sellers in Japan. Lutz may have been referring to the fact that current hybrids include a combustion engine component. Pure electrics with a popular price and decent range on a charge are probably a way off. Plus, if they become the main power source down the road there will probably have to be power grid infrastructure updates and big hikes in electricity bills. You can't win, someone will have their hand in your pocket.
So, if BMW's CAFE average came in at 26.5 mpg and sold 300,000 cars in the US, they'd get fined $1.5M, or $50 per car. BMW, prior to the recession at least, was profitable enough that they'd just pay the fine, rather than try to meet the standards. I dunno if they can still afford to do that though.
The bill last year was $6.5 million (or was that for MB? It was one of the two), and they paid it. Just passing along the costs to the consumer dontcha' know.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
".....The case is not the same with the LaCrosse/XTS. Not only a V8 can't fit, but also the 3.8L, as both have an angle too wide for the new FWD orientation."
Not true. A look back at a C&D article on the Lacrosse proves this:
"......A quick look under the hood suggests—and a quick call to the powertrain engineers confirms—that two more cylinders are an easy fit up front. Sadly, the days of the gratuitous V-8 are probably gone for good."
Maybe for the Lacrosse, but a new Lucerne/ XTS off that platform??? A can do.
Sure, a V-8 can fit if it is 60-degree. That is what Ford did with 1996 Ford Taurus SHO, 2003 Volvo XC90 and 2007 S80. All three needed 60-degree engines as a regular V-8 wouldn't fit. That's why Ford had to buy them from Yamaha, the only manufacturer that build compact 60-degree V-8's. I can assure you that Ford's upcoming excellent twin-cam 412-hp 5.0L V-8 from the Mustang will not fit in any Lincoln available in the market right now, not even the gigantic MKT, which shares platform with the Volvo XC90/S80/Taurus/MKS. Ford will need to build a new platform for Lincoln to make use of that engine.
Oops...I just realized I made a boo-boo in that little hypothetical calculation I did. If they got fined $50 per car and sold 300,000, they'd get hit for $15M, not $1.5M. Slight error on my part. :P
$6.5M would come out to $21.67 per car if they sold 300K units, $32.50 per car if they sold 200K units, and even if they only sold 100K units, it would only be $65 per car.
Of course, these costs are getting passed on to the consumer, but in BMW's price bracket, I doubt it most buyers would even notice, or care. But with cheaper, more mainstream cars with less profit margin, it would make a lot more difference.
That's why Ford had to buy them from Yamaha, the only manufacturer that build compact 60-degree V-8's.
Those were a 2.5 duratec design with two extra cylinders and a balance shaft I believe. IIRC, Ford built the blocks and they were shipped to Yamaha to be built. Plus, I think Yamaha designed the heads and valvetrain.
"I can assure you that Ford's upcoming excellent twin-cam 412-hp 5.0L V-8 from the Mustang will not fit in any Lincoln available in the market right now, not even the gigantic MKT, which shares platform with the Volvo XC90/S80/Taurus/MKS. Ford will need to build a new platform for Lincoln to make use of that engine."
Or resurrect the tooling from the Lincoln LS [ edit: 3.9L DOHC ] V8? - Ray Former Lincoln LS V8 Sport driver......
I don't care if there are Vettes that can run 10000 RPM all day long in the SCCA circuit, in a modern luxury flagship, people are going to want a smooth, refined DOHC motor with a wide powerband, not some overbearing, throwback to the 60's muscle car.
When you get into the upper end of the automotive world, they precisely DON'T want that. They want howling exhaust, a big V8 or V12, and 400-600HP with tire smoke and a top speed of 150mph+.
Last I checked, Mercedes and BMW sell every last one of their AMG and M series models. And I've seen huge V8s stuffed into things like a C class, so it's easily possible to put a V8 in a midsize Buick or Cadillac.
A V8 is an absolute requirement for the top end segments, even if it's only an option. And also, the new "muscle cars" like the Camaro and the Mustang are about the only things lately that are showing good sales figures. Seems Americans love their big engines and don't really care that much about 3-4mpg if the car is 2-3x the fun to drive.
Well, Ford is bragging the new 5.0 GT will get 25 mpg hwy and has the perfect sized v-8 cranking 412hp/390 lb-ft. (If the 5.0 fits in a Mustang, it's laughable if they can't get into a modern day Lincoln.) Beat that, GM.
What's even more ironic is how the CEO's of American Auto made statements like "It's impossible to achieve 35 MPG CAFE regs." These guys don't deserve to run U.S. car companies. Find a way! It's your job.
While pricing and exact sale date are still to be announced (the current GT starts at $28,345), with the announcement Ford has taken the latest swing in its decades-long rivalry with Chevy’s Camaro. It will also surely give Mustang enthusiasts new reasons salivate, and may just prompt a new remix of “Ice, Ice, Baby.”
Well, Ford is bragging the new 5.0 GT will get 25 mpg hwy and has the perfect sized v-8 cranking 412hp/390 lb-ft. (If the 5.0 fits in a Mustang, it's laughable if they can't get into a modern day Lincoln.) Beat that, GM.
Actually, it's possible. The Mustang is RWD and mostly hood, so there's enough room for a V-8. The MKS is FWD and has a transverse engine, and depending on how the engine bay is designed, there might not be enough room between the wheel wells for a V-8.
Well considering the Lincoln MKS is based off a Volvo platform and Volvo had to use a 60 degree V with the 4.4l v8 for it to fit (it has to be mounted transversely). The 5.0 Mustang 90 degree v8 probably won't fit. Plus being a fwd/awd platform, I don't know of anyone that has a transaxle that can handle the power and torque of the 5.0 v8. I'm guessing the ecoboost v6 is probably pushing it to its limit. But I don't know what the max is on Ford's 6f-55 transaxle. Plus, I'm sure AWD would be a must with that kind of power, so 25+ mpg in a 4500lb AWD vehicle powered by a 400HP v8 is probably is not going to happen, as even with the Ecoboost 355hp direct injected turbo v6 is rated at 24. That's far from 35mpg.
What's even more ironic is how the CEO's of American Auto made statements like "It's impossible to achieve 35 MPG CAFE regs." These guys don't deserve to run U.S. car companies. Find a way! It's your job.
Considering that Ford and GM sell a high percentage of fullsize trucks and SUVs, it will be extremely difficult to have a 35mpg fleet average. The new compacts are going to have to sell well for that to be a possibility.
Cars are going to have to get lighter. Seems like everything midsize or up is pushing 2 tons.
Comments
AFAIC, GM (part of Motors Liquidation) will eventually be a Chinese owned business globally.
Regards,
OW
India will be the next IT giant with heretofore innovations in cold fusion and anti gravity technologies. Indeed, a new today is dawning
Cold fusion? Anti gravity? Boy, I can't wait :shades: .
I wouldn't!!! I LOVE vette's engine, best in the class. I am not big fun of turbo. I don't get why GM don't make an extra effort and makes Corvette flawless.
I already don't think much of that truncated Lincoln MKS with its dinky V-6 engine. I'd rather have a Town Car, even if it is a dinosaur.
Will Lexus be affected as they are part of Toyota?
I already don't think much of that truncated Lincoln MKS with its dinky V-6 engine. I'd rather have a Town Car, even if it is a dinosaur.
Well times are a changin. That dinky MKS Ecoboost v6 will smoke any v6 or v8 Cadillac that doesn't have a V on the end of it. Sure it doesn't sound like a v8, but they days of turbo lag are over. The current crop are incredible with torque curves that just can't be duplicated in a n/a engine w/o going with a large displacement v8, and with fuel and emission regs coming, I'm afraid the v8 is on thin ice.
I've not read anything on any further development of the Northstar v8, no talk of DI, or any type of other revisions to increase power, fuel economy, or emissions. Looks like they may be going the route of mating the 3.6 with a hybrid setup to get v8 like power and better efficiency.
The doom/gloom stuff about the very-large Asian countries is old news, old nonsense.
To the extent it is relevant here, the more the doom&gloom crew are correct, isn't that better news for long term GM market share & future?
"What's good for China is Good for GM."
As for Taiwan not being part of China, that may change peacefully if the USA doesn't keep paying the weekly vig. (How well do Buicks sell in Taiwan currently?)
Doesn't It all looks like 'market opportunity' for GM as well as USA in general?
I know it'll never happen, but I wonder what kind of result Lincoln would get if they took the Town Car and put an Ecoboost and 6-speed automatic in it?
China has been chosen for cheap exploitable labor and its lack of social and environmental standards above all else. This is why westerners worked so hard to open it during their ultra-criminal red times.
And not everyone believes the honesty of their economic figures, either...I've seen more than one credible investment figure expressing doubts.
Not seeing much mechanical innovation out of India just yet, not much out of China either.
Yeah, it doesn't really do anything for me either, Lincoln has been kind of lost for a while.
I know it'll never happen, but I wonder what kind of result Lincoln would get if they took the Town Car and put an Ecoboost and 6-speed automatic in it?
Well, looks like Ford is going to offer the Ecoboost in just about everything that needs power. F150, Expedition, Taurus, Flex, MKX, MKS etc. Why not the Town Car? But it looks like they are letting it die a slow and painful death. The TC is so out of date overall I don't know where they'd start.
A Panther platform car without a V8...blasphemy. Unfortunately, the Town Car and the Panther platform is all but dead. What I wish for from either Ford or the General is a large RWD car with a potent V6 (300HP with a V8 option) that can be had for upper 30s - 40. The G8 was a nice effort but not quite there for us luxo barge types. I know its been talked about here before but the G8s chassis would make a great new Impala or Buick Park Av/Electra. I guess with all the other things going on at GM a low volume large RWD car is just not feasible right now.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Ahh yes, I forgot about the fact that, over these 30+ years, there has NEVER been anything smaller than a V-8 in a Panther! Even at its lowest point, the early 80's, the base engine was a 4.2L/255CID V-8 with 112 hp.
I wonder what the police and taxi market is going to do when the Panther is finally put to rest? While the cars are getting outdated, they still have some good qualities that make them desirable to these markets, such as being durable, cheap-to-fix, can take a licking and keep on ticking, etc. A Hemi Charger or rebadged G8 police car might be great performers, but hop a few curbs with 'em, push a stranded car or two out of the way, etc, and they're probably going to be shot.
You can be sure they are going to miss them. They can take a beating. On New Years Eve the GF and I needed a taxicab ride home (for obvious reasons) and it was a 98 - 02 Town Car and the odometer read 485,XXX miles. I just have a hard time believing a FWD Impala or the Charger could do that.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Yeah, they are probably tougher and more durable than most SUVs. My dad had a '92 Crown Vic that myself and my younger brother and sister all beat the hell out of. He finally got rid of it in '00 with 240k miles w/o many issues. Granted the engine was tired and burning oil and overall it was worn out.
Those were nice cars 20 years ago. But I wouldn't want one now. I remember really liking my dads CV back in the early 90's. But 10 years ago I had an opportunity to buy a '94 Grand Marquis with low miles and a low price from an estate sale in Florida. After a 20 minute drive I thought it sucked. Slow, sloppy, and well just old feeling. Certainly not something I would want now.
Actually the '04 and newer ones drive a bit better with the addition of rack and pinion steering. My Grandfather has a 04 Grand Marq and I must say I do enjoy driving it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Its amazing that things just don't start falling off NYC taxis with the abuse they endure.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
100 Years! :confuse: :confuse: My advice to anyone here is you might have found an excellent forecaster if he even gets 50% correct of what's going to happen in the next year. And the accuracy would go downhill quickly after that. A sudden war, a government collapse, a major pandemic, bank collapses, or major technology breakthrough are examples of things that can change the world.
Learn from history of the foolishness of the predictions from famous people. If you want lots of GM-specific examples go back the last 30 years and get quotes from the executives of GM on how X and Y was going to make GM better. :P
I might just break every single one of my rules about buying a car
That's the car that you do most of your driving with, right? How many miles do you have on it now? I'm guessing that with only 10,000 miles on that new DTS, you'll probably have THAT one indefinitely!
I'm planning on driving my Park Ave until it drops...or it gets totaled. Hopefully I'll get at least a few good years out of it.
The Grand Marquis has about 84K on it right now.If those stories about NYC Town Cars are to be believed, I could still have the car for some time.
I could have the DTS indefinately unless that XTS turns out to be as nice as the concept appears to be.
Not true. A look back at a C&D article on the Lacrosse proves this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q3/2010_buick_lacrosse_cxs-short_take_- road_test
"......A quick look under the hood suggests—and a quick call to the powertrain engineers confirms—that two more cylinders are an easy fit up front. Sadly, the days of the gratuitous V-8 are probably gone for good."
Maybe for the Lacrosse, but a new Lucerne/ XTS off that platform??? A can do.
I don't care if there are Vettes that can run 10000 RPM all day long in the SCCA circuit, in a modern luxury flagship, people are going to want a smooth, refined DOHC motor with a wide powerband, not some overbearing, throwback to the 60's muscle car. Shoot, you might as well go ahead and Carb the thing if you go that route... :sick:
The LS460 should be the benchmark here, not a Camaro for the luxury market.
No kidding. Unless GM engineers some advances to improve NVH of the OHV layout, that would be a huge mistake.
I've sampled a few 6.2s in the Denali/Escalade and luxury refined it is not. Not that it's a bad engine, far from it, but it doesn't purr, that's for sure.
Regards,
OW
GM's Lutz: Higher gas tax would help
The vice chairman of General Motors is a frequent critic of fuel economy rules and once declared that global warming was a "total crock" of excrement, although he used a more common and colorful word in that description.
Total Crock
Lutz also declared in 2004 that hybrid cars didn't make sense to sell or buy. And just this week, as he and GM were hyping the new electric Chevrolet Volt, at Detroit's North American International Auto Show, he declared that internal combustion engines would dominate the auto industry for the next 20 years, no matter what advances were made in electric vehicles.
And you on this board wonder why market share keeps going down? :mad:
The Toyota Prius is the best-selling hybrid car in America. On its own, it accounts for more than half of all hybrids sold in America. It is Toyota's third best-selling model after the Camry mid-sized sedan and the Corolla compact car.
Regards,
OW
I forgot where I read that a V-8 wouldn't fit. I think it was on a Consumer Guide website, but not sure. However, I'm sure with enough time, effort, and money, a V-8 could be made to fit! After all, I've seen a 426 Hemi in a PT Cruiser, a 440 Wedge in a mid'70's Dodge Colt hardtop coupe, and a 351W in a Ford Focus!
Just takes a good imagination and a blow torch. :P
Just takes a good imagination and a blow torch. :P
Don't forget Dodge's v10 motorcycle! I guess that wouldn't take as much cutting though.
And you on this board wonder why market share keeps going down?
He is their best and brightest. :P
Well I guess he was 1/2 right. IMO, they don't make a whole lot of sense to buy (at current fuel prices and the prices in '04), but if people are willing to buy them, plus the government is willing to subsidize them, and it can help your reputation of being green (think Toyota) then maybe you have to listen to the market and build them.
Plus, I think another reason the Prius sells so well is that for all intents and purposes, it IS the hybrid sedan market. There's really nothing else out there that competes with it. Everybody else tried to take existing sedans and hybridize them, usually giving up trunk space in the process. And none of 'em had EPA estimates anywhere near the Prius.
I guess Honda's making a more serious effort with the new Insight, although it's more of a compact than the Prius...plus it still doesn't get Prius economy...although it does come in at a lower price. And I guess the new Fusion is a good attempt at a mainstream sedan that's been hybridized...although it still doesn't get Prius-type numbers.
So my guess is that what you're seeing in Prius sales is pretty much the whole market for that type of car. Kinda like how the Mustang scores good sales because it's pretty much been the only ponycar game in town for years. Get more players in these niche markets, and you might see a small increase in total sales, but in the end, everyone just ends up with a smaller piece of the pie.
Yeah, they do have a nice muscular exhaust note.
That's pretty much how I see it too. It will be interesting to see what happens as gas creeps back up around $3/gal. Will people panic and take a $10-15k hit on their trade so they can save maybe $2k/yr on gas...LOL.
A bit of logic that's right on target.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The bill last year was $6.5 million (or was that for MB? It was one of the two), and they paid it. Just passing along the costs to the consumer dontcha' know.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not true. A look back at a C&D article on the Lacrosse proves this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q3/2010_buick_lacrosse_cxs-short_take_- - - - - road_test
"......A quick look under the hood suggests—and a quick call to the powertrain engineers confirms—that two more cylinders are an easy fit up front. Sadly, the days of the gratuitous V-8 are probably gone for good."
Maybe for the Lacrosse, but a new Lucerne/ XTS off that platform??? A can do.
Sure, a V-8 can fit if it is 60-degree. That is what Ford did with 1996 Ford Taurus SHO, 2003 Volvo XC90 and 2007 S80. All three needed 60-degree engines as a regular V-8 wouldn't fit. That's why Ford had to buy them from Yamaha, the only manufacturer that build compact 60-degree V-8's.
I can assure you that Ford's upcoming excellent twin-cam 412-hp 5.0L V-8 from the Mustang will not fit in any Lincoln available in the market right now, not even the gigantic MKT, which shares platform with the Volvo XC90/S80/Taurus/MKS. Ford will need to build a new platform for Lincoln to make use of that engine.
$6.5M would come out to $21.67 per car if they sold 300K units, $32.50 per car if they sold 200K units, and even if they only sold 100K units, it would only be $65 per car.
Of course, these costs are getting passed on to the consumer, but in BMW's price bracket, I doubt it most buyers would even notice, or care. But with cheaper, more mainstream cars with less profit margin, it would make a lot more difference.
Those were a 2.5 duratec design with two extra cylinders and a balance shaft I believe. IIRC, Ford built the blocks and they were shipped to Yamaha to be built. Plus, I think Yamaha designed the heads and valvetrain.
Or resurrect the tooling from the Lincoln LS
[ edit: 3.9L DOHC ]
V8?
- Ray
Former Lincoln LS V8 Sport driver......
When you get into the upper end of the automotive world, they precisely DON'T want that. They want howling exhaust, a big V8 or V12, and 400-600HP with tire smoke and a top speed of 150mph+.
Last I checked, Mercedes and BMW sell every last one of their AMG and M series models. And I've seen huge V8s stuffed into things like a C class, so it's easily possible to put a V8 in a midsize Buick or Cadillac.
A V8 is an absolute requirement for the top end segments, even if it's only an option. And also, the new "muscle cars" like the Camaro and the Mustang are about the only things lately that are showing good sales figures. Seems Americans love their big engines and don't really care that much about 3-4mpg if the car is 2-3x the fun to drive.
What's even more ironic is how the CEO's of American Auto made statements like "It's impossible to achieve 35 MPG CAFE regs." These guys don't deserve to run U.S. car companies. Find a way! It's your job.
While pricing and exact sale date are still to be announced (the current GT starts at $28,345), with the announcement Ford has taken the latest swing in its decades-long rivalry with Chevy’s Camaro. It will also surely give Mustang enthusiasts new reasons salivate, and may just prompt a new remix of “Ice, Ice, Baby.”
Regards,
OW
Actually, it's possible. The Mustang is RWD and mostly hood, so there's enough room for a V-8. The MKS is FWD and has a transverse engine, and depending on how the engine bay is designed, there might not be enough room between the wheel wells for a V-8.
What's even more ironic is how the CEO's of American Auto made statements like "It's impossible to achieve 35 MPG CAFE regs." These guys don't deserve to run U.S. car companies. Find a way! It's your job.
Considering that Ford and GM sell a high percentage of fullsize trucks and SUVs, it will be extremely difficult to have a 35mpg fleet average. The new compacts are going to have to sell well for that to be a possibility.
Cars are going to have to get lighter. Seems like everything midsize or up is pushing 2 tons.