Oh I don't mean "loser" in the sense that the Olds engine was a worse engine than the Chevy engine...poor choice of wording on my part. What I meant to say was that as a result of the Olds 350 shortage, the Delta 88 was probably the car most affected...most likely to end up with a Chevy 350.
Do you remember what kind of fuel economy you got with those two cars? My '76 LeMans is lucky to get 10 mpg around town, but out on a good highway run, can break 17 mpg.
I'm not a huge fan of the Acadia, but for some reason, from that angle, I think it looks pretty attractive. My biggest issue with the Acadia and its clones is that I just don't find the middle and back row seats to be very comfortable. Too small, too thinly padded, and too low to the floor. Like sitting in a kiddie seat.
If you don't need the third row seat, and I guess you'd give up some towing capacity, I actually prefer the Equinox, Terrain (except for the over-sized front-end) and the Caddy SRX (although it seems too inexpensive and downscale to be a Caddy). Even though these vehicles are smaller, I find them to be a lot more comfortable, both front and back.
Do you remember what kind of fuel economy you got with those two cars? My '76 LeMans is lucky to get 10 mpg around town, but out on a good highway run, can break 17 mpg.
I don't recall exactly. I remember the Olds actually got a mpg or so better than the Chevy despite the 4bbl and added weight. Maybe 12 or so in town and somewhere between 16 and 18 on the Interstate, the Chevy was probably more like 15 at hwy speed. The only big hassle on the Chevy was vacuum problems in the hoses that never were totally resolved. I will say they were both put together better than the 79 Monte Carlo I got later (it had a 305 4bbl but got mileage more like the old Malibu despite being smaller). The dealer assured me it didn't have the undersized Chevette transmission, but shortly after I dumped it I got court documents advising me that I had the litigated shortcoming - big surprise! I then got an 83 Olds Ciera that was without a doubt the worst car I have ever owned, but a friend got one at the same time that was great - GM quality control. I then moved on to Ford which was a mixed experience. Currently I'm Toyota and Honda, but considering the new Equinox or Explorer - VERY cautiously though!
Now I will respond. (Funny how hitting on GM touches the nerves of a few determined to keep GM squeaky clean!)
GM is an example of manufacturers who failed, after all. No escaping that....
Camaro is one name that was resurrected from a failed decision to remove it from unimpeded development from whence it was born. Idiots to discontinue, now you see the lost opportunities over the many years as the '80's Camaro was reduced to joke-like status due to the lack of ingenuity in design.
The 2008 Malibu was the best car for the masses GM created in decades. I am glad it rates well. (Similar to the SRX. About time Caddy makes a winner that people can crave.)
When the 2011 Sonata displaces the Malibu in monthly and annual sales, the numbers will change regarding depreciation.
Besides, Malibu sales are to those desperate to stick with GM and can't bear the fact that off-shore brands continue to enforce GM as a company in reverse in terms of value, style and marketing prowess. As an example, instead of offering a huge advancement to Malibu in 2011, GM continues to operate in an arrogant mode and continue as if a 4 year old design is perfectly competitive. Well, the competition operates very differently at the moment and GM will loose ground yet again.
The 2011 Elantra is the next model released from the Koreans which will ensure the Cruze sales stay low.
Remember when Lutz proclaimed 35mpg CAFE was impossible in 5 years? Not long ago. For GM, probably true.
My second trip ever to the Left Coast. tough to see when backing up but it had a video camera. It drove very nice. Mileage was barely 20 in 50/50 driving in Orange County. Came back home to 3 inches of new snow in Indiana.
Longer warm up times, lower tire pressure, friction of snow at tires, pile of snow on roof, hood, and rear deck, different gas, slipping tires on accel, slower speeds in lower gears, different gas blend. I see a 10% drop without tire change. In an ice storm, a 20% drop is normal. I once spent 20 minutes getting up an ice covered hill in the Sonoma. A coworker spent 2.5 hours Thirsday venturing 7 miles towards work and gave up and returned home. He was trying to drive in 6 inches of snow in a rwd sports car.
One explanation for lower fuel economy is the "winter blend" gasoline with a higher than ordinary ethanol content. I clear all snow off my vehicles before venturing out. I believe it is the law in either or both PA and NJ to remove all snow and ice from your vehicle.
Here's a question. I'm sure people here have heard of "dry gas" that you put in the tank to prevent fuel line condensation and freezing. I still put a bottle of dry gas in all four vehicles as a winter ritual. but now heard it is unnecessary due to the way modern gasoline is formulated.
I haven't looked at a can of those for years, but I thought they were methanol. And that is good at adsorbing the water but is hard on the components of the fuel system.
The big "BOMB" in the 15 yr old so far is a $168 starter motor at just 168k miles. Had to do brakes once so far in 179,600 miles. Also still has the battery I bought it with in 2003 with 88k miles on it.
>so far is a $168 starter motor at just 168k miles.
Yup. I've had to put a starter motor in my 1998 (12 years) with 180,000 miles. It has had little expense for maintenance. I'd buy another one today if it were available new. GMs do great.
All else being equal, reportedly one could get better mpg with a 4bbl if one "stayed out of the secondaries" because the 2 primaries on the 4bbl were usually/always smaller than the two jets on a 2bbl. I saw mpg results consistent with that idea with an 85 305 4bbl 5-spd Z28, 2.73 rear gear.
Steve, with all due respect, there are people who post on this site, under the guise of "GM news" (you and they know who they are) with no intention of "discussing" said news, just lobbing a bomb, so to speak. Yet we who DO want to discuss "GM news" are left with no other choice but to "defend" rather than "discuss". Maybe all those "posts" should be removed.
Well, SOMEBODY has to say it. It's one thing to have an axe to grind with GM and want to discuss the issues, but to throw a bomb over a 1262 vehicle recall and just say that their death is iminent over that, is an embarassment of a post to begin with. It should be removed BEFORE somebody responds to it.
Couldn't agree more, but then you have to get rid of the foreign bashers, particularly Toyota, that are on those discussions b/c there are people on both sides who just come on to bash the other!
General Motors Co. is recalling nearly 100,000 vehicles in two separate campaigns — over concerns airbags could fail to deploy in crashes and rear axles could lock up.
Hmm, in the past, I remember many GM recalls forced a la Toyota today. I will never let GM off the hook because Toyota pulls the same tricks. Shame on Toyota but double shame on GM. Why? Because they claim to be the best and are far from it.
Case in point:
The side saddle fuel tank design installed in over 10 million trucks - all 1973-87 General Motors full-size pickups and cab-chassis trucks (pickups without beds) and some 1988-91 dual cab or RV chassis - is the worst auto crash fire defect in the history of the U.S. Department of Transportation. Based on data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (formerly known as the Fatal Accident Reporting System), over 1,800 people were killed in fire crashes involving these trucks from 1973 through 2000. (Attachment A is a list of fatal C/K fire crashes by state since 1993.) This is more than twenty times as many fatalities as in the infamous Ford Pinto. Despite a voluntary recall request from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in April 1993 (Attachment and an initial defect determination by Transportation Secretary Federico Pena in October 1994 (Attachment C), GM stubbornly refused to initiate a recall.
I was just comparing apples to apples. If you were in the market for something like a CX-9 and test drove both the CX-9 and the Acadia with no badging and not knowing who the manufacturer was I assure you the CX-9 will not be on your list for long.
As for breaking new ground I don't remember any vehicle doing that well maybe those self accelerating/self parking Toyotas.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them were 350's.
You're correct. Everyone I knew who owned one had the 350. Come to think about it the 403 was nothing to write home about either. By the mid 70s emissions had pretty much killed the performance big blocks.
My Dad had bought an '86 with the V6. After taking it around the block had decided to buy an '86 Maxima no comparison. That 3 speed with the V6 in the Cutlass pretty much killed the car. The body design of the '86 had some nice lines the problem was once you started it.
I know I probably shouldn't encourage your Hyundai-hugging, especially in a GM forum, but that Elantra's actually pretty sharp looking! Looks a bit like a baby Sonata, but I think it actually looks better, because the headlights and grille treatment aren't so overdone.
I think the Lacrosse is way overdone with the chrome trim (looks more overdone than the Sonata styling IMHO).
The Malibu and the Lamdas were PRE- C11, correct?
I agree the Cruze looks like the best smaller car GM has ever put out. I understand that it is a bit underpowered, but to me that is less important than the interior and the refinement, which I understand are top notch. I did sit in one and it was very nice inside.
Corrected. Lambdas and the 'Bu were before. But the 'Bu still looks the same and that's the thorn with GM.
Judging from the past Buicks, I'll take the excessive styling of the new Lacrosse rather then the lifeless designs churned out year after year after year.
I guess the top sales guy at Chevy is afraid the bean counters will de-content the 'Bu if a refresh is instituted. :sick:
I went down to my local Chevy dealer the other day to claim my $50 Target giftcard, as I had received an e-mail that I could get 1 for taking a Cruze for a test-drive. Let's just say I didn't get much of a test-drive, though I did sit in it. It seemed fairly nice, but the sticker was over $20K, which is a non-starter for me. I'm not really in the market for a new value now anyway (sort of a waste for GM to be pushing $ at people like me).
If I were in the market for a compact-mid-size vehicle I'd be starting with the Hyundai Elantra which I believe is a couple of thousand $ less, has better mpg (regular version), a more powerful engine, and a longer warranty.
On another topic - I see Ford announced today thast it's 2012 models will be offered with a "shut-down" system when the vehicle stops, to save fuel. I guess with the bankruptcy and all the changes at GM, they really haven't had time to get out-in-front on this. I'm sure GM will announce "their system is coming", to save face.
On another topic - I see Ford announced today thast it's 2012 models will be offered with a "shut-down" system when the vehicle stops, to save fuel. I guess with the bankruptcy and all the changes at GM, they really haven't had time to get out-in-front on this. I'm sure GM will announce "their system is coming", to save face.
Do you think we will see the "shut down" dancers at the auto shows for a few years in advance of actual product? :P
Someone mentioned that GM recalls were voluntary vs. Toyota and others which had to be forced.
Particularly when you are trying to recover from a bankruptcy, perhaps this could have been administered more customer-centric at the new and improved GM. :mad:
".....Malibu was the first in 2008 that showed promise but long in the tooth, it needs a refresh that's long overdue. One of my lingering peeves with GM.
That let Hyundai take market share from Chevy like Madoff took billions from the Rich!"
See, THAT is a statement that "belongs" here. Posting about a recall "belongs" here. But a factless statement like;
"HMMM............miles to go before GM sleeps!!!!"
and
"World Junk "
Don't.
BTW, I know what's in the article, but your statement was about the trucks:
"2011 and axle issue on the "World Class Division"?????? "
1262 out of what, 500,000 full sized pickups and SUV's???
As far as airbag deployments, ther have been recalls for years on the Acura's
".....I'm sure GM will announce "their system is coming", to save face. "
Ummmm, they DID, back in November. It's called eAssist, and will be standard on all 2012 4 cyl Lacrosses. Not sure if it is yet going to extend to other models yet.
Like I said, slobbering statements of defending GM ain't gonna come from me
Actually this is a news and market share discussion. And news about new models We don't need bashing posts any more than we need Calvin peeing on Ford posts.
For New Years, let's all resolve to keep more on the topic eh?
On another topic - I see Ford announced today thast it's 2012 models will be offered with a "shut-down" system when the vehicle stops, to save fuel.
But who the hell wants it? Let's see, its 20 below and the car keeps shutting down while its trying to warm the engine up on initial driving - that ought to help durability. Its 103 outside (or just 90 and humid in Houston) and it keeps shutting down and turning the A/C off. Ford better have an override option, or I won't consider the vehicle equipped that way. Let the consumer decide which way they want it. All this will do is get the government in our face mandating the dumb idea.
Yeah, that shut-down system sounds pretty stupid when you look at it that way! I'd be pretty upset if my car kept turning itself off if I'm stuck in traffic. How does it know that it won't be the time you need to punch it to get through some short stoplight with a notoriously long wait time?
Any questions, you'll need to go to the members of the failed management.
IMHO Wagoner should be in jail for the amount of money he took from GM while he drove it into the ground. He was so clueless that only a few months before BK he insisted GM was turning around.
He should be sharing jail with the banking execs who put us into this mess.
The article I read (believe on USA Today) was that the Ford system kept the AC and other systems running when the vehicle was stopped. I'm sure the software is being written not to shutdown the engine when the engine is outside a certain temperature range, and to restart the engine if the battery is being drained too low.
I'll have to lookup what Buick's EAssist system is.
Comments
Do you remember what kind of fuel economy you got with those two cars? My '76 LeMans is lucky to get 10 mpg around town, but out on a good highway run, can break 17 mpg.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you don't need the third row seat, and I guess you'd give up some towing capacity, I actually prefer the Equinox, Terrain (except for the over-sized front-end) and the Caddy SRX (although it seems too inexpensive and downscale to be a Caddy). Even though these vehicles are smaller, I find them to be a lot more comfortable, both front and back.
Of course we drop them as fast as possible. :shades:
Regards,
OW
and a ridiculously high price for what??
Regards,
OW
I don't recall exactly. I remember the Olds actually got a mpg or so better than the Chevy despite the 4bbl and added weight. Maybe 12 or so in town and somewhere between 16 and 18 on the Interstate, the Chevy was probably more like 15 at hwy speed. The only big hassle on the Chevy was vacuum problems in the hoses that never were totally resolved. I will say they were both put together better than the 79 Monte Carlo I got later (it had a 305 4bbl but got mileage more like the old Malibu despite being smaller). The dealer assured me it didn't have the undersized Chevette transmission, but shortly after I dumped it I got court documents advising me that I had the litigated shortcoming - big surprise! I then got an 83 Olds Ciera that was without a doubt the worst car I have ever owned, but a friend got one at the same time that was great - GM quality control. I then moved on to Ford which was a mixed experience. Currently I'm Toyota and Honda, but considering the new Equinox or Explorer - VERY cautiously though!
GM is an example of manufacturers who failed, after all. No escaping that....
Camaro is one name that was resurrected from a failed decision to remove it from unimpeded development from whence it was born. Idiots to discontinue, now you see the lost opportunities over the many years as the '80's Camaro was reduced to joke-like status due to the lack of ingenuity in design.
The 2008 Malibu was the best car for the masses GM created in decades. I am glad it rates well. (Similar to the SRX. About time Caddy makes a winner that people can crave.)
When the 2011 Sonata displaces the Malibu in monthly and annual sales, the numbers will change regarding depreciation.
Besides, Malibu sales are to those desperate to stick with GM and can't bear the fact that off-shore brands continue to enforce GM as a company in reverse in terms of value, style and marketing prowess. As an example, instead of offering a huge advancement to Malibu in 2011, GM continues to operate in an arrogant mode and continue as if a 4 year old design is perfectly competitive. Well, the competition operates very differently at the moment and GM will loose ground yet again.
The 2011 Elantra is the next model released from the Koreans which will ensure the Cruze sales stay low.
Remember when Lutz proclaimed 35mpg CAFE was impossible in 5 years? Not long ago. For GM, probably true.
May the Best CARS win! Go Hyundai!
Regards,
OW
Longer warm up times, lower tire pressure, friction of snow at tires, pile of snow on roof, hood, and rear deck, different gas, slipping tires on accel, slower speeds in lower gears, different gas blend. I see a 10% drop without tire change. In an ice storm, a 20% drop is normal. I once spent 20 minutes getting up an ice covered hill in the Sonoma. A coworker spent 2.5 hours Thirsday venturing 7 miles towards work and gave up and returned home. He was trying to drive in 6 inches of snow in a rwd sports car.
Here's a question. I'm sure people here have heard of "dry gas" that you put in the tank to prevent fuel line condensation and freezing. I still put a bottle of dry gas in all four vehicles as a winter ritual. but now heard it is unnecessary due to the way modern gasoline is formulated.
It could be that, or that dry gas is actually alcohol based, as is the ethanol
HMMM............miles to go before GM sleeps!!!!
faulty rear axle cross pin.
World Junk
Regards,
OW
I haven't looked at a can of those for years, but I thought they were methanol. And that is good at adsorbing the water but is hard on the components of the fuel system.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The big "BOMB" in the 15 yr old so far is a $168 starter motor at just 168k miles. Had to do brakes once so far in 179,600 miles. Also still has the battery I bought it with in 2003 with 88k miles on it.
Dry gas is still necessary for me.
Yup. I've had to put a starter motor in my 1998 (12 years) with 180,000 miles. It has had little expense for maintenance. I'd buy another one today if it were available new. GMs do great.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The topic is GM news. Not GM bashing or bashing each other. Please put that in your New Year's resolution.
I heard on the radio that an airline pilot bought the first Chevrolet Volt in New Jersey on the New Jersey radio station I listen to every morning.
General Motors Co. is recalling nearly 100,000 vehicles in two separate campaigns — over concerns airbags could fail to deploy in crashes and rear axles could lock up.
Go Hundeee!
Merry Christmas!
Read the entire article and then tell me it's about a small universe of trucks.
The issues remain post-failure but they are a little more global now that GM sells more off shore than here in the USA.
Regards,
OW
RELAX! It's not about me or anyone else. I still own one of the bombs!!
Regards,
OW
NOT to GM!! JK.
Regards,
OW
Case in point:
The side saddle fuel tank design installed in over 10 million trucks
- all 1973-87 General Motors full-size pickups and cab-chassis trucks
(pickups without beds) and some 1988-91 dual cab or RV chassis - is the
worst auto crash fire defect in the history of the U.S. Department of
Transportation. Based on data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System
(formerly known as the Fatal Accident Reporting System), over 1,800 people
were killed in fire crashes involving these trucks from 1973 through 2000.
(Attachment A is a list of fatal C/K fire crashes
by state since 1993.) This is more than twenty times as many fatalities
as in the infamous Ford Pinto. Despite a voluntary recall request from
the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in April 1993
(Attachment
by Transportation Secretary Federico Pena in October 1994 (Attachment
C), GM stubbornly refused to initiate a recall.
Only 1,800 deaths. :sick:
Regards,
OW
As for breaking new ground I don't remember any vehicle doing that well maybe those self accelerating/self parking Toyotas.
You're correct. Everyone I knew who owned one had the 350. Come to think about it the 403 was nothing to write home about either. By the mid 70s emissions had pretty much killed the performance big blocks.
My Dad had bought an '86 with the V6. After taking it around the block had decided to buy an '86 Maxima no comparison. That 3 speed with the V6 in the Cutlass pretty much killed the car. The body design of the '86 had some nice lines the problem was once you started it.
I think the Cruze is THE best small car from GM....EVER. Corvette is still on my dream shopping list.
So, the positive results continue but there are gremlins from the pre-bankruptcy GM alive and well.
My choice of great cars from GM since C-11:
2010 Lacrosse
2010 SRX
Lambdas
2008+CTS
Cruze
2008+ Malibu
Malibu was the first in 2008 that showed promise but long in the tooth, it needs a refresh that's long overdue. One of my lingering peeves with GM.
That let Hyundai take market share from Chevy like Madoff took billions from the Rich!
Regards,
OW
2010 Lacrosse
2010 SRX
Lambdas
2008+CTS
Cruze
2008+ Malibu
I think the Lacrosse is way overdone with the chrome trim (looks more overdone than the Sonata styling IMHO).
The Malibu and the Lamdas were PRE- C11, correct?
I agree the Cruze looks like the best smaller car GM has ever put out. I understand that it is a bit underpowered, but to me that is less important than the interior and the refinement, which I understand are top notch. I did sit in one and it was very nice inside.
Judging from the past Buicks, I'll take the excessive styling of the new Lacrosse rather then the lifeless designs churned out year after year after year.
I guess the top sales guy at Chevy is afraid the bean counters will de-content the 'Bu if a refresh is instituted. :sick:
Regards,
OW
If I were in the market for a compact-mid-size vehicle I'd be starting with the Hyundai Elantra which I believe is a couple of thousand $ less, has better mpg (regular version), a more powerful engine, and a longer warranty.
On another topic - I see Ford announced today thast it's 2012 models will be offered with a "shut-down" system when the vehicle stops, to save fuel. I guess with the bankruptcy and all the changes at GM, they really haven't had time to get out-in-front on this. I'm sure GM will announce "their system is coming", to save face.
Do you think we will see the "shut down" dancers at the auto shows for a few years in advance of actual product?
Particularly when you are trying to recover from a bankruptcy, perhaps this could have been administered more customer-centric at the new and improved GM. :mad:
ARE YOU LISTENING, GM??
Should G.M. Have Recalled Saturn Ions for Steering Failures?
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. We won't be fooled again!
Regards,
OW
That let Hyundai take market share from Chevy like Madoff took billions from the Rich!"
See, THAT is a statement that "belongs" here. Posting about a recall "belongs" here. But a factless statement like;
"HMMM............miles to go before GM sleeps!!!!"
and
"World Junk "
Don't.
BTW, I know what's in the article, but your statement was about the trucks:
"2011 and axle issue on the "World Class Division"?????? "
1262 out of what, 500,000 full sized pickups and SUV's???
As far as airbag deployments, ther have been recalls for years on the Acura's
Ummmm, they DID, back in November. It's called eAssist, and will be standard on all 2012 4 cyl Lacrosses. Not sure if it is yet going to extend to other models yet.
Any questions, you'll need to go to the members of the failed management.
Point of the GM recall article is that there are "miles to go" before these examples do not repeat. How's that? Better?
BTW, Acuras vs. Caddy???
Take a look at the 2010 JDP IQR:
Initial Quality 2010
Many more miles, afaic.
Anyhow, That's me. No offense intended. Just keeping it real.
Regards,
OW
Actually this is a news and market share discussion. And news about new models We don't need bashing posts any more than we need Calvin peeing on Ford posts.
For New Years, let's all resolve to keep more on the topic eh?
But who the hell wants it? Let's see, its 20 below and the car keeps shutting down while its trying to warm the engine up on initial driving - that ought to help durability. Its 103 outside (or just 90 and humid in Houston) and it keeps shutting down and turning the A/C off. Ford better have an override option, or I won't consider the vehicle equipped that way. Let the consumer decide which way they want it. All this will do is get the government in our face mandating the dumb idea.
GM share is in half and the news is half good.
Happy New Year! :shades:
Regards,
OW
IMHO Wagoner should be in jail for the amount of money he took from GM while he drove it into the ground. He was so clueless that only a few months before BK he insisted GM was turning around.
He should be sharing jail with the banking execs who put us into this mess.
Oh, you must mean market share. The stock price is up a buck and a half from the November IPO.
I'll have to lookup what Buick's EAssist system is.