More likely we'd get a Prius V or even a hatchy II than a Volt or Leaf. Lot cheaper than the Volt and maybe double the lifetime mpg of our minivan.
Then again, the auto reviewer at the WSJ called the Volt a "spark of genius" - "A bunch of Midwestern engineers in bad haircuts and cheap wristwatches just out-engineered every other car company on the planet."
Well, every article I read shows that the first 200,000 Volts will get the $7500 credit, so that helps with the price. Don't forget, with more EV's also means more L-ion batteries, which should help the price per KWh for the packs to go down.
GM's CAFE number sits at 30.6 mpg for 2010. Now, for 2011 you get the Cruze replacing the Cobalt, plus the 10-25,000 Volts. That should push them well over 31 MPG. Next yr., add the e-assist to ALL 4 cyl Lacrosses, giving it 25/37 MPG numbers (per Autoblog). Even if GM gets 50,000 Volts solt in 2011 and 2012, that alone would add about 1.5 MPG to the fleet average.
What does that mean?? The ability to sell more higher end V8 cars (which generally come with more goodies and a higher profit margin. Even if gas hits $5, then that means more sales for a car like the Volt, which increases their CAFE number even more.
I was following OK until the 20 cents for premium. Is the $1,300 the additional amount had the SUV been requiring premium over a 10 year period? $21500 vs $22800 for gas isn't much difference over 10 years.
I found my Riv had so little difference with premium that I just used regular. I still got 10% over old EPA mileage from it and have taken it from 88k to 180k miles so far. The engine still had enough power with regular to break the tranny with a couple thousand revs to spare at 163k. No real issues from using the regular all this time.
We got the ice storm, part I, last night and I left the Riv outside. About 3/8 inch of ice currently coats the entire car and we are due for part II this afternoon. I could have gone to work in the Malibu from the garage but the entire neighborhood had 3/8 inch of ice on the driveway and streets. Then I would have the Part II ice on the Malibu while I'm at work. I just took the day off to finish my taxes. I did put as frost shield over the Riv windshield but the driver's door will take 30 minutes to get open. This is the worst I've ever experienced.
In Venice, the price difference between regular/premiun at Shell is approaching $.0.30/gal..I guess the snow birds drive up the premium costs in the winter..I willing to pay up to .24 premium, but the mid-grade works just fine for the V-6 3.8-260 hp 2006 Pontiac..get back 5% on all gas purchases from Shell anyway..
The Pontiac and the Mustang GT are both hogs on gas, however the Stang uses regular and the MPGs fall between 20-23 in all types of Fla driving for both cars..Insurance for senior citizens over 75 parallel costs of teenagers, and many insurance companies will not write car insurance over the age of 75, Allstate is one in Fla..which I am familiar with on a woman that signed up at 74 and 30 mos later the premium was up 50%. no claims, no tickets, no problems..Went to Progressive..
My son-in-law had a 96 Riv, S/C w/sunroof, nice car, and I think it was broomed around 100k, was badly abused, my opinion!!, and always had an oil leakage..He was a stamping engineer in Detroit and said it was an ill-fitting oil pan..The funny part is that their 2 current cars also leak oil, Jeep Cherokee, and a Wrangler..Straight-6s..Not my problem..
If gas goes to $4.00/gallon no rush to buy any thing that the climate-nuts love..Just dig down and pay the piper.. just another $200/month, and maybe my cost of living increase on my SS check will cover the gas bill, you think???
Buy American and maybe Ford is the only true company left, for GM is heavy into Chinatown, and Chrysler is beyond hope..my opinion only, why is our govt dealing with bankrupt Fiat..Yep my son-in-law had a 1600 conv, Fiat, yes it leaked oil when stored in my garage over the Michigan winters..In fact it was a southern car which he paid around $3300 back in the mid-90s from Altanta, Ga..5 yrs later it was sold to 2 teenagers from Wisc, who hauled it away on a trailer for $1000.. It's a car we don't talk about at family gatherings, at least I keep my mouth shut..
It looks like the Silverado and the Impala were the big gainers and are the top 2 volume sellers. The Equinox is doing fairly well too. But the Silverado and Impala aren't exactly new models.
Now remember - GM posts a "sale" when they ship a vehicle to a dealer. A GM sale is not when a customer takes delivery from the dealer's lot. So in order to know what sales to a walking/breathing customer really are, you need to also include dealer inventories.
A new vehicle like the Cruze or Regal may have so many sales in the first month or 2, because dealers need to initially order some to have some in inventory. A dealer may initially order 10 vehicles, to sell a few and still have a few to show customers. After the initial order dealers will then order the replacement 1 or 2 as they get a sale.
".....What kind of sales is GM expecting from the Regal. I'm sure 2,300/mo is not what they had in mind."
I wonder if that has anything to do with the later rollout of the Turbo. Also (for another forum), Being built in Germany, I wonder how many are waiting for it to be built here.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the later rollout of the Turbo. Also (for another forum), Being built in Germany, I wonder how many are waiting for it to be built here.
I had this discussion with pro-Regal people over in that forum; basically asking why is a Regal needed. What I'm saying is there are already many vehicles in this size range, and the Regal is just one more entry. And being 4-cyl and heavy, and relatively expensive doesn't help. You can quibble about sheet-metal looks and slightly nicer materials than Chevy, but GM simply has more entry in an already crowded field.
And the turbo is not going to make this sporty like a Subaru STi, or EVO; or even my Mazdaspeed6. For > $30K the Buick Regal turbo should offer AWD. I'll stick with AWD, as the Regal would have to sit at the bottom of my driveway most of the winter. I'd buy a 1 year old Audi before I'd buy a new GM sedan.
"....I had this discussion with pro-Regal people over in that forum; basically asking why is a Regal needed. "
I know, we've discussed it there. I too, think that the Regal should be phased out if the Verano is that close in size.
As far as sporty, speed isn't everything. I will agree that AWD should be made available. I checked out the Audi at the Auto show. The interior trim was far better than the Regal, but at $52,000 no thanks. I'll go with a CTS.
You're all over the place. Stick to the reason the Regal should exist.
Sonata has more room and performance a la the 2.0T, interior a step below the Regal but at a discount to price as well.
GM has no other BMW fighter at the moment. The 3-series spanks the Regal (and anything GM has even dreamed of) and BMW is a desired brand in comparison to Buick (for the truly aware).
Who wants a Regal when the 328i provides a step above? At a very close price, all be it a slight premium, to the Regal?
Add the 335i? Regal is in the weeds. Period. Sure it's a huge premium but if you are an enthusiast, you can understand the trade off. To the rest, the 328i wins hands down. Why buy a Regal?
Load up the Regal with the Turbo and it it's $33K. Right in BMW Land.
GM needs to protect price foremost and they just do not get it.
You can argue but the competition has answered already.
The reason GM is selling it is because they only need to sell 10K a year, give or take, to make a profit on it. Remember that it's a virtually unchanged re-badged import from Europe and their only real cost is a little bit of advertising and the cost of the retrofit to DOT standards.
Is it wise from a marketing position as something to compete versus the competition? Of course not. But it's dirt cheap to bring excess foreign models to the U.S. as opposed to re-tooling an entire plant and/or spending a billion+ on an entirely new platform.
That said, the Verano *is* a better vehicle.(though honestly, WHO chooses these horrid names for Buick?) GM also is going to properly market the Verano as mid-size. It's what people should buy instead of the Regal as it is less expensive and quicker.
Of course not. But it's dirt cheap to bring excess foreign models to the U.S. as opposed to re-tooling an entire plant and/or spending a billion+ on an entirely new platform.
This is from Autoobserver, I haven't a clue whether it's accurate or not: General Motors announced an attractive price on its 2011 Buick Regal, which is generating a lot of positive buzz. But the automaker likely will lose money or at least not make much on every one it sells in the early going.
The Regal, which begins arriving in dealerships in spring, will start at just under $27,000. But pricing the Regal was tricky business.
The new Regal is based on the German-made Opel Insignia, and the earliest versions to be sold in the U.S. will be made in Europe. That means the dollar-euro exchange rate is highly unfavorable. The situation changes in the first quarter of 2011 when Regal production shifts from Russelsheim, Germany, to GM's plant in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
I was also under the impression GM lost money on the Holden imported GTO and G8 too.
Then again, if you go back more than a year, GM lost money on just about every they sold.
Their plan is to simply make a few hundred thousand extra over 5-8 years. They'll make a decent profit, (which they did on the Holden imports as well) since the cost to bring it to the U.S. market will be paid back in a year or two. 50 mil, tops, to make the changes and do some advertising online - that's paid back in a couple of years, easy.
And, to be honest, bringing over vehicles from overseas is a smart move as well since it consolidates their brands. IMO, it should be Chevrolet, Holden(bring over), and Cadillac. Toss GMC and Buick.
So you think it's only 50M to have made the changes to the Opel and make it a Buick? How many pieces on those vehicles are different? How much does it cost to retool the factory in Canada, where every tool they have in Germany, needs to be duplicated? How much does it cost to staff that factory with engineers, planners, managers, and UAW workers, which you wouldn't otherwise need?
You may be right, I don't care to go into the numbers. But I really think you're low-balling the costs. And knowing what I do about management's ways of costing, I bet GM executives don't have a very good idea of the total costs. Thus the poor costing data, leads executives to incorrect-conclusions. The proof of this is that GM a few years ago could probably show how each individual vehicle and brand were important and doing well, yet when all was said and done GM's market-share was eroded, and they had burned through so much cash - that they went BK at the next economic shock.
I do agree with you that Buick and GMC are superfluous, just being kept because GM can't free itself from the dealers, and because of the whole Buick-China success.
So you think it's only 50M to have made the changes to the Opel and make it a Buick? How many pieces on those vehicles are different? How much does it cost to retool the factory in Canada, where every tool they have in Germany, needs to be duplicated? How much does it cost to staff that factory with engineers, planners, managers, and UAW workers, which you wouldn't otherwise need?
Oh, don't worry, GM will find a way to make it profitable. Word on the street is they're already thinking about making a Chevy version called Monte Carlo, a high-spec Cadillac version called Eldorado, and they might even bring back Pontiac and Olds so they can do a trim shuffle and come up with Grand Prix and Cutlass Supreme derivatives! :P
On a more serious note, I don't think the G8 was all that expensive. Even though it was an Aussie design and they had to convert it from RHD to LHD, I'm sure there are European versions of that design that were already LHD.
The GTO was probably a bit more expensive though, as they had to move the location of the gas tank. It was originally under the trunk floor, behind the rear axle, the way the D3 made RWD cars for decades. But that wouldn't pass crash test standards anymore, since most cars don't have those long rear ends like back in the day, and they're designed as more of a crumple zone. In the old days, when a car got rear-ended, it would often buckle first where the frame rails went up over the rear axle. So even if the gas tank was only a couple inches off the rear of the car, it was usually spared (unless it was a Ford with the "drop in" gas tank)
So for the GTO, the fuel tank had to be relocated to inside the trunk, right behind the back seat, and it ate up a good deal of trunk space.
On a more serious note, I don't think the G8 was all that expensive
It wasn't. I looked at it and it was on par with the Chrysler 300, Avalon and V6 Genesis. It offered alot and drove great, but the interior was just so blah... and lacking features. The seats didn't even offer a power recliner (just a 6 way power). To top it off the interior was only available in black.
The Opel that you can buy in Germany right now is virtually identical to the U.S. version. All they had to do was reprogram the GPS, fiddle with the computers and transmission a bit to alter it for torque and U.S. driving patterns, refit the airbags with U.S. ones, put lower speed tires on it, and replace the bumper and lights and so on with DOT approved designs.
Really almost no work at all - and something they apparently are doing right now with their existing factory in Europe.(and BMW, VW, Mercedes, and others do every day for U.S. versions they import here) If it doesn't sell well enough to build a production line in the U.S, they will continue with shipping excess production to the U.S. instead. It's smart and really doesn't cost them much at all, since it allows them to keep the factory in Europe running at full production despite declining sales.
Note - Honda and Toyota have done this for decades. We get their 3-5 year old designs as a rule so tht they phase in a car here as it is losing steam in Japan. If it takes off, awesome. If not, it's a few more sales while they re-tool at a slower speed. That GM and Ford are doing it is a sign that they are getting smart and no longer thinking like a U.S. company but a global one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Insignia It's made in Germany. Left hand drive is the norm and the U.K. version is the "swap". Smart move, considering the lagging German economy as of late.
>Note - Honda and Toyota have done this for decades. We get their 3-5 year old designs as a rule so tht they phase in a car here as it is losing steam in Japan. If it takes off, awesome. If not, it's a few more sales while they re-tool at a slower speed
Interesting. Must be a smart move for GM then if Honda and Toyota have done that for years. No one should criticize it.
They're not as awful as some state if you are driving around town or on an easy Interstate. They actually have decent driver's legroom compared to a lot of the newer stuff out there (but the back seat can be hell!).
I have short legs and have never ridden in the back of an '06 or later Impala, but I've had them for rentals and the seat bottom cushion seems short to me, and flat. I do like that you can get an Impala with column shift and fold-down center armrest, which I think gives the impression of more front-seat room. I'll risk ridicule and actually state that I think the styling is nice, especially with the aluminum wheels that are pretty common even on lower-line models now, that were part of the LTZ package when the car first came out.
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Well for 27 grand (I'll assume those were turbo models), that's pretty good compared to the Regal which starts at just under 27 before any options to match those found in those loaded Sonatas.
Is it the newer Impala or older generation. Both my wife and her father had the older car and I didn't think it was bad. The newer one has a much nicer interior, but I don't like it's "Return of the Lumina" styling as much as the older car.
Well, that was an experience to remember. Got about 2 miles from the motor pool when all the forward gears went out on the car. Had to drive it in reverse all the way back, just like Stacey Keach in "Moving Violation!" :surprise:
Okay, just kidding there! This is a new Impala, either a 2010 or 2011. It only has about 6600 miles on it. Base model, with plastic hubcaps. I did have a few issues with it, but they weren't necessarily all the car's fault. First, I tried to put the seat back, felt underneath for the lever, and it was gone. I thought maybe it had been broken off, but then, buried low on the side, I finally found the power adjust. It had a manual adjust for the recline, and even had a manual adjust for lumbar support, and then the typical 6-way power adjust (fore/aft, up/down, tilt forward/tilt back) Not bad for a base level car.
I was comfortable up front, but you wouldn't want to put anybody in the seat behind me! Quality-wise, I thought the interior was decent. I'm sure some people will say the Japanese cars are better, but they've been cost-cutting as well, so I'd call it a draw here, especially for a base level car. It really depends more on your preferences, than any real quality differences. It's not like I got the feeling the interior was going to fall apart, or anything like that!
The car was a really, really dark gray metallic, almost black, with a black cloth interior. GM really is doing a good job at making their hard plastics look just as good as the Japanese do with their hard plastics.
I didn't care for the way the steering felt...do these things have electric steering? It felt to me like it was trying to do a bad impersonation of my 2000 Park Ave. Ride was okay IMO though. It was pretty quiet. Didn't care too much for the visibility though. The cowl is pretty low, almost like what Honda was famous for back in the day, so visibility out the front was good...except for those mammoth A-pillars. And backing up was kinda hard, with the high decklid, thick pillars, and even the headrest blocking my view.
My biggest beef with the thing was the engine/transmission, although I wonder if there was just something wrong with this particular car, or if it hadn't been completely broken in yet. It had the 3.5 V-6, which I think has something like 211 hp and 216 ft-lb of torque. When I stomped on it, I could hear the engine revving up like it really wanted to go, but there seemed to be a several second delay before the transmission reacted. Once it finally took off, it was enough to put me back in my seat a bit, but that delay bothered me.
I'm kinda mixed on the Impala's styling. Overall, I do think it's attractive, but just a bit generic looking. I thought the 2000-2005 Impala wasn't as good looking, but it was more unique...if that makes sense?
Curious thing is, the Chevrolet display at the Philadelphia Auto Show didn't have an Impala on the floor. I wonder if Chevy is phasing it out or soon replacing it with a new version. The Impala would be out of place in the new Chevrolet lineup. The Cruze and Malibu have much nicer interiors. I also don't recall seeing an HHR.
Well if it was cloth and was 27k there must've been some serious addons or some sort of dealer markup on those particular models. The Turbo Sonata with cloth is the "SE" trim and according to their website, the price rings up at $24,865. A Turbo Sonata in "Limited" trim is $27,045 and has all the bells and whistles including leather and the standard moonroof.
I can understand their not showing the Impala at the auto show. It is a really long in the tooth model and they have lots of other things to show off.
That said I agree with uplander that it's still attractive. It's a nice design and its primary flaws are things like andre mentioned - tight space for that size of car. Wouldn't be a problem in my family where long legs are in short supply.
I don't recall seeing anything of a replacement vehicle in teh works. That's something they really need.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I think they plan to run with it for a year or two more and then bring over one of the Holden models instead. The G8 was the one car that everyone was sad to see get killed along with Pontiac, because it really didn't deserve it. To date, it's the second best thing GM makes after the CTS. Everyone at GM wants to bring it back, but something in the Chevy lineup needs to die/need replacing first. The W body FWD platform needs to be put to rest and by now, the Impala isn't impressing anyone except rental companies.
Even Nascar is planning to replace the Impala as the (at this point, merely visual) basis for their vehicles.
Re-badging the Commodore (G8) as an Impala would be a smart move. There also is a V8 version (with manual if you want it) - There's your SS model with simply a few emblems to change.
When I stomped on it, I could hear the engine revving up like it really wanted to go, but there seemed to be a several second delay before the transmission reacted. Once it finally took off, it was enough to put me back in my seat a bit, but that delay bothered me.
It must be a Marketing ploy - recalling 80's turbo lag! And GM manages to do it in a non-turbo car! Overall though your review doesn't sound bad. But then again nothing you said makes me feel like getting up out of my chair, and considering spending $20K+. It's about as exciting as considering buying paper towels.
Nascar? Last time I checked they change rules every day, or every time the wind changes direction. Old V8's, carbs, "sedans" that are now coupes? Please, what a waste of time.
It must be a Marketing ploy - recalling 80's turbo lag! And GM manages to do it in a non-turbo car!
Yeah, it made me think of turbo lag a bit. It also made me think of how my '79 Newport started acting, just before the transmission gave out. :surprise:
Overall though your review doesn't sound bad. But then again nothing you said makes me feel like getting up out of my chair, and considering spending $20K+. It's about as exciting as considering buying paper towels.
Yeah, that's just it...there's nothing really compelling about the car. It's not horrible, but just not that great, either. I'd definitely get a Charger or Taurus before I'd go for an Impala. But, I guess if I just wanted a cheap car that was fairly reliable, it might not be bad. Might not make a bad used car, once someone else has taken the depreciation hit. Unfortunately, that's not gonna help General Motors. :sick:
Yeah, that's just it...there's nothing really compelling about the car. It's not horrible, but just not that great, either. I'd definitely get a Charger or Taurus before I'd go for an Impala. But, I guess if I just wanted a cheap car that was fairly reliable, it might not be bad. Might not make a bad used car, once someone else has taken the depreciation hit.
I test drove an Impala SS a couple years back, and, at the time, I didn't like the car all that much.
After thinking on it, I'm thinking it would be nice to pick up one of these used. 4-speed auto? Low tech, but also simple to fix, and with the torque the engine puts out, 4 forward gears would still mean low rpm's for highway cruising. Ditto for the 5.3L V8. 303HP is what many V6 sedans are now putting out, but there's nothing like the burble of a V8. An aftermarket exhaust would spice up the aural attraction.
Comfortable - at least for those in front. Wife liked the interior and the seat comfort. Enough trunk space for a week's worth of clothes on vacation, or a golf bag or two.
Yeah, filling the tank would hurt, but if that's the only real downside, that's not too bad.
Here's a nice example with decent miles for about 60% of sticker after 2 years. Might even get some money off the asking price if you negotiated hard enough.
I'll confess, that when my Intrepid got totaled and I was looking for another car, I mildly entertained the idea of an Impala SS. I actually don't mind the idea of a 4-speed automatic, as long as it works with the engine the way it should. The one in my 2000 Park Ave, which has 240 hp and I think 280 ft-lb of torque, seems to work pretty well. It was much more responsive than the unit in that gov't Impala.
I was gonna say that what that Impala SS V-8 might lack in hp (303), it may make up in torque. But, looking at the specs, only 323 ft-lb. I thought it would be more. Still, that probably out-torques most V-6 engines.
I think I found an '08 Impala SS with around 20K miles on it, for around $18.9K back then. Kinda tempted, but I was swayed by the $7500 Park Ave that I could simply write a check for, and is a more comfortable car for my needs. Still, that Impala was a bit tempting.
Well, that was an experience to remember. Got about 2 miles from the motor pool when all the forward gears went out on the car. Had to drive it in reverse all the way back, just like Stacey Keach in "Moving Violation!"
Don't even joke about that. A certain poster will bring this up later as fact, and maybe add that you saw the person who drove it after you along the side of the road, with the car in flames.
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Yeah, there is a following for the big older GM sedans. A Park ave or DTS can be had for next to nothing 4-5 years old and will provide a good decade more of service. But it is a very small following. Large FWD cars are rapidly falling out of favor.
Oh - concerning the Holden/possible future Impala replacement, check out these two pictures:
Sans the goofy Pontiac front end, it looks like a proper sporty sedan.
Top Gear America was complaining about needing a big station wagon this season - "please make this car". Well, they DO already in Australia. In fact, it looks eerily like the concept art they had drawn for them on the show. They just didn't realize it. :
It's not a single vehicle - it's an entire range of them made from this one platform. And it's exactly what GM needs. Bring over(don't even have to make something new!) what makes people happy and forget about trying to please the rental companies and eco-freaks.
Don't even joke about that. A certain poster will bring this up later as fact, and maybe add that you saw the person who drove it after you along the side of the road, with the car in flames.
LOL! Sorry, I didn't even think of that but yeah, this is the interweb, and we know how things can get blown out of proportion!
FWIW, We turned that car back in to the motor pool this morning. It turns out this was going to be a second gov't Impala for us to use. We already have one that's white, and I was under the impression that it ended up at the motor pool somehow, and needed to be picked up. But, no, we ended up wrangling a second one for "official gov't use", and I guess, last minute, the powers that be decided we didn't need two Impalas.
Up at the motor pool, I noticed they also had a couple of Ford Fusion hybrids, and a new-ish Dodge Caravan. The vast majority were Impalas though. They're still a big step up from what we used to have to contend with, though. I remember back in 1996 or so, we got a bulk rate deal on some Olds Achievas, for $13K apiece. And I'd still see an occasional Corsica running around, until fairly recently.
I actually don't mind the idea of a 4-speed automatic, as long as it works with the engine the way it should.
I hear you on that!
I remember back in the mid-80's when 4-speed autos were brand new. My boss had an '82 or '83 Tercel that had the 3-speed auto. Driving around in it was quite noisy.
The ION has a 4-speed auto, and with the 2.2L 4-cyl isn't awful. Most of my driving is around town, and it works perfectly fine. The only thing that bugs me is that there are only three choices on the shifter for forward gear selection - D, I (intermediate) and L. Intermediate switches between 2nd and 3rd gear depending on the speed.
Because the area where I live is hilly, and prone to frequent snow, I use the gearbox to get engine braking when going downhill. It's annoying to get to a certain speed while in "I" and have the transmission downshift from 3rd to 2nd.
Both the wife's '08 VUE and the daughter's '10 MINI have 6-speed autos, and the difference is like night and day. Both have a manual selection that allows you to choose what gear you want to be in. But, in a car like the Impala, 4 speeds ought to be enough.
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More likely we'd get a Prius V or even a hatchy II than a Volt or Leaf. Lot cheaper than the Volt and maybe double the lifetime mpg of our minivan.
Then again, the auto reviewer at the WSJ called the Volt a "spark of genius" - "A bunch of Midwestern engineers in bad haircuts and cheap wristwatches just out-engineered every other car company on the planet."
More fun quotes in this Washington Post review:
Gene and the Machine: The shocking truth about the electric Volt
If you wait for the 2013 edition, the gas motor is supposed to run mostly on ethanol. Either way, you don't get range anxiety.
GM's CAFE number sits at 30.6 mpg for 2010. Now, for 2011 you get the Cruze replacing the Cobalt, plus the 10-25,000 Volts. That should push them well over 31 MPG. Next yr., add the e-assist to ALL 4 cyl Lacrosses, giving it 25/37 MPG numbers (per Autoblog). Even if GM gets 50,000 Volts solt in 2011 and 2012, that alone would add about 1.5 MPG to the fleet average.
What does that mean?? The ability to sell more higher end V8 cars (which generally come with more goodies and a higher profit margin. Even if gas hits $5, then that means more sales for a car like the Volt, which increases their CAFE number even more.
I found my Riv had so little difference with premium that I just used regular. I still got 10% over old EPA mileage from it and have taken it from 88k to 180k miles so far. The engine still had enough power with regular to break the tranny with a couple thousand revs to spare at 163k. No real issues from using the regular all this time.
We got the ice storm, part I, last night and I left the Riv outside. About 3/8 inch of ice currently coats the entire car and we are due for part II this afternoon. I could have gone to work in the Malibu from the garage but the entire neighborhood had 3/8 inch of ice on the driveway and streets. Then I would have the Part II ice on the Malibu while I'm at work. I just took the day off to finish my taxes. I did put as frost shield over the Riv windshield but the driver's door will take 30 minutes to get open. This is the worst I've ever experienced.
The Cruze looks to be selling well.
The Pontiac and the Mustang GT are both hogs on gas, however the Stang uses regular and the MPGs fall between 20-23 in all types of Fla driving for both cars..Insurance for senior citizens over 75 parallel costs of teenagers, and many insurance companies will not write car insurance over the age of 75, Allstate is one in Fla..which I am familiar with on a woman that signed up at 74 and 30 mos later the premium was up 50%. no claims, no tickets, no problems..Went to Progressive..
My son-in-law had a 96 Riv, S/C w/sunroof, nice car, and I think it was broomed around 100k, was badly abused, my opinion!!, and always had an oil leakage..He was a stamping engineer in Detroit and said it was an ill-fitting oil pan..The funny part is that their 2 current cars also leak oil, Jeep Cherokee, and a Wrangler..Straight-6s..Not my problem..
If gas goes to $4.00/gallon no rush to buy any thing that the climate-nuts love..Just dig down and pay the piper.. just another $200/month, and maybe my cost of living increase on my SS check will cover the gas bill, you think???
Buy American and maybe Ford is the only true company left, for GM is heavy into Chinatown, and Chrysler is beyond hope..my opinion only, why is our govt dealing with bankrupt Fiat..Yep my son-in-law had a 1600 conv, Fiat, yes it leaked oil when stored in my garage over the Michigan winters..In fact it was a southern car which he paid around $3300 back in the mid-90s from Altanta, Ga..5 yrs later it was sold to 2 teenagers from Wisc, who hauled it away on a trailer for $1000.. It's a car we don't talk about at family gatherings, at least I keep my mouth shut..
Now remember - GM posts a "sale" when they ship a vehicle to a dealer. A GM sale is not when a customer takes delivery from the dealer's lot. So in order to know what sales to a walking/breathing customer really are, you need to also include dealer inventories.
A new vehicle like the Cruze or Regal may have so many sales in the first month or 2, because dealers need to initially order some to have some in inventory. A dealer may initially order 10 vehicles, to sell a few and still have a few to show customers. After the initial order dealers will then order the replacement 1 or 2 as they get a sale.
2010 - 155,389 sold.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the later rollout of the Turbo. Also (for another forum), Being built in Germany, I wonder how many are waiting for it to be built here.
Honestly, I don't think many are aware of it.
You can quibble about sheet-metal looks and slightly nicer materials than Chevy, but GM simply has more entry in an already crowded field.
And the turbo is not going to make this sporty like a Subaru STi, or EVO; or even my Mazdaspeed6. For > $30K the Buick Regal turbo should offer AWD. I'll stick with AWD, as the Regal would have to sit at the bottom of my driveway most of the winter. I'd buy a 1 year old Audi before I'd buy a new GM sedan.
I know, we've discussed it there. I too, think that the Regal should be phased out if the Verano is that close in size.
As far as sporty, speed isn't everything. I will agree that AWD should be made available. I checked out the Audi at the Auto show. The interior trim was far better than the Regal, but at $52,000 no thanks. I'll go with a CTS.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=293070475&dealer_id=8062017&ca- - - r_year=2010&doors=&systime=&model=A4&search_lang=en&start_year=2010&keywordsrep=- - - &keywordsfyc=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=300&min_price=&- - - drive=&rdm=1296686884851&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&- - - sownerid=1187769&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2010&showZipError=y&make2=- - - &certified=&engine=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transm- - - ission=&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&max_mileage=&address=03431&color=&sort_- - - type=priceDESC&max_price=&awsp=false&make=AUDI&seller_type=b&num_records=25&card- - - ist=151&standard=false
8000 miles??? I'd have to say that's an excellent deal.
And they say GM's lose value.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=292947005&dealer_id=68102&car_- year=2010&systime=&doors=&listingCounter=0&adModel=LACROSSE&search_lang=en&start- _year=2010&highlightFirstMakeModel=&rdm=1296687695249&drive=&marketZipError=fals- e&advanced=&keywords_display=&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&spotlightCounter=0&mak- e2=&certified=&engine=&adBodyStyle=&transmission=&useBIRF=true&sort_type=priceDE- SC&max_price=&adClassSeries=&make=BUICK&useImpressions=true&useJSON=true&model=L- ACROSSE&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&search_type=both&distance=0&min_price=&fuel=&l- istingPriority=30&flip=a&end_year=2012&showZipError=n&page_location=findacar::is- psearchform&body_code=0&default_sort=&max_mileage=&address=03431&color=&adMake=B- UICK&videoSpotlightType=a&awsp=false&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=57
$30595, and it says REDUCED!!!!
Sonata has more room and performance a la the 2.0T, interior a step below the Regal but at a discount to price as well.
GM has no other BMW fighter at the moment. The 3-series spanks the Regal (and anything GM has even dreamed of) and BMW is a desired brand in comparison to Buick (for the truly aware).
Who wants a Regal when the 328i provides a step above? At a very close price, all be it a slight premium, to the Regal?
Add the 335i? Regal is in the weeds. Period. Sure it's a huge premium but if you are an enthusiast, you can understand the trade off. To the rest, the 328i wins hands down. Why buy a Regal?
Load up the Regal with the Turbo and it it's $33K. Right in BMW Land.
GM needs to protect price foremost and they just do not get it.
You can argue but the competition has answered already.
Regards,
OW
Is it wise from a marketing position as something to compete versus the competition? Of course not. But it's dirt cheap to bring excess foreign models to the U.S. as opposed to re-tooling an entire plant and/or spending a billion+ on an entirely new platform.
That said, the Verano *is* a better vehicle.(though honestly, WHO chooses these horrid names for Buick?) GM also is going to properly market the Verano as mid-size. It's what people should buy instead of the Regal as it is less expensive and quicker.
This is from Autoobserver, I haven't a clue whether it's accurate or not:
General Motors announced an attractive price on its 2011 Buick Regal, which is generating a lot of positive buzz. But the automaker likely will lose money or at least not make much on every one it sells in the early going.
The Regal, which begins arriving in dealerships in spring, will start at just under $27,000. But pricing the Regal was tricky business.
The new Regal is based on the German-made Opel Insignia, and the earliest versions to be sold in the U.S. will be made in Europe. That means the dollar-euro exchange rate is highly unfavorable. The situation changes in the first quarter of 2011 when Regal production shifts from Russelsheim, Germany, to GM's plant in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
I was also under the impression GM lost money on the Holden imported GTO and G8 too.
Then again, if you go back more than a year, GM lost money on just about every they sold.
And, to be honest, bringing over vehicles from overseas is a smart move as well since it consolidates their brands. IMO, it should be Chevrolet, Holden(bring over), and Cadillac. Toss GMC and Buick.
You may be right, I don't care to go into the numbers. But I really think you're low-balling the costs. And knowing what I do about management's ways of costing, I bet GM executives don't have a very good idea of the total costs. Thus the poor costing data, leads executives to incorrect-conclusions. The proof of this is that GM a few years ago could probably show how each individual vehicle and brand were important and doing well, yet when all was said and done GM's market-share was eroded, and they had burned through so much cash - that they went BK at the next economic shock.
I do agree with you that Buick and GMC are superfluous, just being kept because GM can't free itself from the dealers, and because of the whole Buick-China success.
Oh, don't worry, GM will find a way to make it profitable. Word on the street is they're already thinking about making a Chevy version called Monte Carlo, a high-spec Cadillac version called Eldorado, and they might even bring back Pontiac and Olds so they can do a trim shuffle and come up with Grand Prix and Cutlass Supreme derivatives! :P
On a more serious note, I don't think the G8 was all that expensive. Even though it was an Aussie design and they had to convert it from RHD to LHD, I'm sure there are European versions of that design that were already LHD.
The GTO was probably a bit more expensive though, as they had to move the location of the gas tank. It was originally under the trunk floor, behind the rear axle, the way the D3 made RWD cars for decades. But that wouldn't pass crash test standards anymore, since most cars don't have those long rear ends like back in the day, and they're designed as more of a crumple zone. In the old days, when a car got rear-ended, it would often buckle first where the frame rails went up over the rear axle. So even if the gas tank was only a couple inches off the rear of the car, it was usually spared (unless it was a Ford with the "drop in" gas tank)
So for the GTO, the fuel tank had to be relocated to inside the trunk, right behind the back seat, and it ate up a good deal of trunk space.
It wasn't. I looked at it and it was on par with the Chrysler 300, Avalon and V6 Genesis. It offered alot and drove great, but the interior was just so blah... and lacking features. The seats didn't even offer a power recliner (just a 6 way power). To top it off the interior was only available in black.
Good car, just executed poorly IMO.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Really almost no work at all - and something they apparently are doing right now with their existing factory in Europe.(and BMW, VW, Mercedes, and others do every day for U.S. versions they import here) If it doesn't sell well enough to build a production line in the U.S, they will continue with shipping excess production to the U.S. instead. It's smart and really doesn't cost them much at all, since it allows them to keep the factory in Europe running at full production despite declining sales.
Note - Honda and Toyota have done this for decades. We get their 3-5 year old designs as a rule so tht they phase in a car here as it is losing steam in Japan. If it takes off, awesome. If not, it's a few more sales while they re-tool at a slower speed. That GM and Ford are doing it is a sign that they are getting smart and no longer thinking like a U.S. company but a global one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Insignia
It's made in Germany. Left hand drive is the norm and the U.K. version is the "swap". Smart move, considering the lagging German economy as of late.
Or black and red - like mine - for 2009.
- Ray
G8 GT driver...
Interesting. Must be a smart move for GM then if Honda and Toyota have done that for years. No one should criticize it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Discount??? What a pantload that is. The 2 I saw at the car show were both $27 grand.
Okay, just kidding there! This is a new Impala, either a 2010 or 2011. It only has about 6600 miles on it. Base model, with plastic hubcaps. I did have a few issues with it, but they weren't necessarily all the car's fault. First, I tried to put the seat back, felt underneath for the lever, and it was gone. I thought maybe it had been broken off, but then, buried low on the side, I finally found the power adjust. It had a manual adjust for the recline, and even had a manual adjust for lumbar support, and then the typical 6-way power adjust (fore/aft, up/down, tilt forward/tilt back) Not bad for a base level car.
I was comfortable up front, but you wouldn't want to put anybody in the seat behind me! Quality-wise, I thought the interior was decent. I'm sure some people will say the Japanese cars are better, but they've been cost-cutting as well, so I'd call it a draw here, especially for a base level car. It really depends more on your preferences, than any real quality differences. It's not like I got the feeling the interior was going to fall apart, or anything like that!
The car was a really, really dark gray metallic, almost black, with a black cloth interior. GM really is doing a good job at making their hard plastics look just as good as the Japanese do with their hard plastics.
I didn't care for the way the steering felt...do these things have electric steering? It felt to me like it was trying to do a bad impersonation of my 2000 Park Ave. Ride was okay IMO though. It was pretty quiet. Didn't care too much for the visibility though. The cowl is pretty low, almost like what Honda was famous for back in the day, so visibility out the front was good...except for those mammoth A-pillars. And backing up was kinda hard, with the high decklid, thick pillars, and even the headrest blocking my view.
My biggest beef with the thing was the engine/transmission, although I wonder if there was just something wrong with this particular car, or if it hadn't been completely broken in yet. It had the 3.5 V-6, which I think has something like 211 hp and 216 ft-lb of torque. When I stomped on it, I could hear the engine revving up like it really wanted to go, but there seemed to be a several second delay before the transmission reacted. Once it finally took off, it was enough to put me back in my seat a bit, but that delay bothered me.
I'm kinda mixed on the Impala's styling. Overall, I do think it's attractive, but just a bit generic looking. I thought the 2000-2005 Impala wasn't as good looking, but it was more unique...if that makes sense?
That said I agree with uplander that it's still attractive. It's a nice design and its primary flaws are things like andre mentioned - tight space for that size of car. Wouldn't be a problem in my family where long legs are in short supply.
I don't recall seeing anything of a replacement vehicle in teh works. That's something they really need.
Even Nascar is planning to replace the Impala as the (at this point, merely visual) basis for their vehicles.
Re-badging the Commodore (G8) as an Impala would be a smart move. There also is a V8 version (with manual if you want it) - There's your SS model with simply a few emblems to change.
The question is: Do they have the guts to do it?
It must be a Marketing ploy - recalling 80's turbo lag! And GM manages to do it in a non-turbo car!
I know its popular, just dont know why.
Yeah, it made me think of turbo lag a bit. It also made me think of how my '79 Newport started acting, just before the transmission gave out. :surprise:
Overall though your review doesn't sound bad. But then again nothing you said makes me feel like getting up out of my chair, and considering spending $20K+. It's about as exciting as considering buying paper towels.
Yeah, that's just it...there's nothing really compelling about the car. It's not horrible, but just not that great, either. I'd definitely get a Charger or Taurus before I'd go for an Impala. But, I guess if I just wanted a cheap car that was fairly reliable, it might not be bad. Might not make a bad used car, once someone else has taken the depreciation hit. Unfortunately, that's not gonna help General Motors. :sick:
Regards,
OW
I test drove an Impala SS a couple years back, and, at the time, I didn't like the car all that much.
After thinking on it, I'm thinking it would be nice to pick up one of these used. 4-speed auto? Low tech, but also simple to fix, and with the torque the engine puts out, 4 forward gears would still mean low rpm's for highway cruising. Ditto for the 5.3L V8. 303HP is what many V6 sedans are now putting out, but there's nothing like the burble of a V8. An aftermarket exhaust would spice up the aural attraction.
Comfortable - at least for those in front. Wife liked the interior and the seat comfort. Enough trunk space for a week's worth of clothes on vacation, or a golf bag or two.
Yeah, filling the tank would hurt, but if that's the only real downside, that's not too bad.
Here's a nice example with decent miles for about 60% of sticker after 2 years. Might even get some money off the asking price if you negotiated hard enough.
I was gonna say that what that Impala SS V-8 might lack in hp (303), it may make up in torque. But, looking at the specs, only 323 ft-lb. I thought it would be more. Still, that probably out-torques most V-6 engines.
I think I found an '08 Impala SS with around 20K miles on it, for around $18.9K back then. Kinda tempted, but I was swayed by the $7500 Park Ave that I could simply write a check for, and is a more comfortable car for my needs. Still, that Impala was a bit tempting.
Don't even joke about that. A certain poster will bring this up later as fact, and maybe add that you saw the person who drove it after you along the side of the road, with the car in flames.
Yeah, but then someone else will come in and say it's designed to do that....
Oh - concerning the Holden/possible future Impala replacement, check out these two pictures:
Sans the goofy Pontiac front end, it looks like a proper sporty sedan.
Top Gear America was complaining about needing a big station wagon this season - "please make this car".
It's not a single vehicle - it's an entire range of them made from this one platform. And it's exactly what GM needs. Bring over(don't even have to make something new!) what makes people happy and forget about trying to please the rental companies and eco-freaks.
LOL! Sorry, I didn't even think of that but yeah, this is the interweb, and we know how things can get blown out of proportion!
FWIW, We turned that car back in to the motor pool this morning. It turns out this was going to be a second gov't Impala for us to use. We already have one that's white, and I was under the impression that it ended up at the motor pool somehow, and needed to be picked up. But, no, we ended up wrangling a second one for "official gov't use", and I guess, last minute, the powers that be decided we didn't need two Impalas.
Up at the motor pool, I noticed they also had a couple of Ford Fusion hybrids, and a new-ish Dodge Caravan. The vast majority were Impalas though. They're still a big step up from what we used to have to contend with, though. I remember back in 1996 or so, we got a bulk rate deal on some Olds Achievas, for $13K apiece. And I'd still see an occasional Corsica running around, until fairly recently.
I hear you on that!
I remember back in the mid-80's when 4-speed autos were brand new. My boss had an '82 or '83 Tercel that had the 3-speed auto. Driving around in it was quite noisy.
The ION has a 4-speed auto, and with the 2.2L 4-cyl isn't awful. Most of my driving is around town, and it works perfectly fine. The only thing that bugs me is that there are only three choices on the shifter for forward gear selection - D, I (intermediate) and L. Intermediate switches between 2nd and 3rd gear depending on the speed.
Because the area where I live is hilly, and prone to frequent snow, I use the gearbox to get engine braking when going downhill. It's annoying to get to a certain speed while in "I" and have the transmission downshift from 3rd to 2nd.
Both the wife's '08 VUE and the daughter's '10 MINI have 6-speed autos, and the difference is like night and day. Both have a manual selection that allows you to choose what gear you want to be in. But, in a car like the Impala, 4 speeds ought to be enough.
But, hate to break it to you happened to a co-worker at my old company back about a year ago. It was a non-S/C model.
Evacuated the building and everything.
The recall applies to the 1997-2003 Buick Regal; 1998-2003 Chevrolet Lumina, Monte Carlo and Impala; 1998-99 Oldsmobile Intrigue; and 1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix, GM said in a filing with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
A total of 1,497,516 vehicles, all equipped with a 3.8 liter engine, are involved in the recall.
But hey, it's all just made up B.S. right?
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