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Maybe they'll show up at the Chat tonight (9 ET, 6PT). :shades:
I think that the primary fuel savings is from a different axle ratio for th Cobalt.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
staff level that could result in the Chevrolet Volt range-extended
electric vehicle receiving a 100-mile-per-gallon fuel economy rating,
the company said.
GM spokesman Dee Allen said the rating is far from set, stressing that
what has been agreed to on a preliminary basis is that the Volt would be
classified as an electric vehicle for the purpose of fuel-economy
ratings.
If that is made certain, he said, then the Volt, due out in November
2010, would likely receive a rating of 100 miles per gallon or better.
So far this doesn't sit well with the EPA which considers the Volt a
hybrid and expects it to complete the test cycle with a charged battery.
GM and the feds have been going back and forth on this for months.
Reports out this morning on Bloomberg and the Detroit Free Press
indicated that GM and the EPA had reached an agreement that would
potentially see the Volt as the first car classified with a 100 mpg
rating are erroneous.
We called spokesman Rob Peterson to get the scoop, and it turns out that
GM has reached an agreement with the California Air Resources Board,
(CARB) on a unique classification for the Volt. Peterson told ABG that
this classification would reflect the Volt's true capability,
essentially treating it as an EV. According to Peterson, "the
classification helps us to optimize the Volt for what it does do,
instead of being put into the category with a normal hybrid." This will
potentially allow GM to run the Volt with the planned charge sustaining
mode rather than having to run the engine to fully recharge the battery
at the end of the test.
The agreement with CARB gives GM a bargaining chip in its talks with the
EPA, but Peterson cautions that the automaker and the federal agency
"still have a long way to go" to finalize any agreement. The Volt may
yet get that magic 100 mpg rating, but it's not there yet.
Sept. 26, 2008
From Detroit’s perspective, the 2008 presidential election is a
referendum on the efficacy of government support for the auto industry,
financed by the American taxpayer.
Except for the historic rescue of Chrysler Corp. almost 30 years ago and
its famous repayment of its government-guaranteed loans seven years
early, U.S. auto makers have not sought handouts.
But in times of crisis, the U.S. government has shown a willingness to
shore up companies vital to the economy, as evidenced by the proposed
$700 billion bailout of Wall Street investment firms.
For the auto industry, this too is a time of crisis, caused by a
confluence of factors: having a truck-heavy mix when more fuel-efficient
cars are becoming popular; funding health-care and pension benefits for
several generations of employees; and plunging vehicle sales due to
recession-like conditions making credit less available and hurting
consumer confidence.
Against the backdrop of an election year, Washington is aiming to help
in the form of low-interest loans worth $25 billion to auto makers and
suppliers to finance the development of more-advanced, fuel-efficient
vehicles, as well as the retooling of plants to produce them.
Detroit auto makers contend the money is necessary to help them achieve
the corporate average fuel economy of 35 mpg (6.7 L/100 km) by 2020, as
mandated by the federal energy act signed into law last December. The
low-cost loans were promised – but not allocated – as part of the
legislation.
In other parts of the world, governments routinely help their domestic
auto industries with tax breaks, reimbursement for research and
development, worker training funds and – perhaps most significantly –
state-sponsored health care.
“It would be hard to find a country that has less of a broad
infrastructure to support the auto industry than the U.S.,” says labor
and manufacturing expert Harley Shaiken, a professor at the University
of California-Berkeley.
“I think many of the countries we compete with in automotive have a more
significant investment in worker training, in broader forms of technical
training.
“Certainly Germany and Japan do,” Shaiken tells Ward’s. “Beyond that, I
think there is a broader understanding of the importance of a
manufacturing base to the health of an economy.”
In the U.S., the broadest indirect taxpayer support for the auto
industry came with the construction of the interstate highway system in
the 1950s, a massive federal program that boosted commerce, lengthened
commutes, spawned modern suburbs and fueled a spirit of freedom and
mobility enabled by affordable American cars.
Since then, industry observers point to the successful Chrysler bailout
28 years ago as the last time Washington really helped Detroit.
Today, many in Washington treat the domestic auto industry with the same
kind of disdain they reserve for the Tobacco industry, and many U.S.
industry executives view the federal government not as an ally but as a
generator of politically motivated regulations that are expensive and
unrealistic.
Most other industrialized countries are far more supportive of their
automotive sector.
In France, automotive represents the second-largest industry, behind
agriculture, and both sectors enjoy the same level of state support, the
maximum allowed under European rules.
As a rule, the European Union limits government investment to regions
with high unemployment, which makes entire countries in Eastern and
Central Europe eligible.
But France, as with Germany and the U.K., has areas of high unemployment
where up to 15% of a major investment can come from a mix of federal,
regional and local governments and can include exoneration from certain
taxes. For small companies, government support can represent up to 35%
of revenues.
The French government solidly supports research and development within
the auto industry, particularly through a new tax-credit system that
reimburses 50% of R&D costs in the first year. Philippe Favre, president
of the Invest in France agency, calls it “the best R&D tax-credit system
in Europe.”
In specific industries such as automotive, France organized three years
ago what it calls “competitiveness clusters” to group companies,
universities and research centers in a geographical area, encouraging
them to collaborate on research projects that then get funding from the
minister of the interior.
Since then, the Mov’eo transportation cluster has created 45 funded
projects representing E160 million ($234 million) of research investment
that involve 109 large companies, 31 small firms and 147 research
centers.
Although the Japanese government’s role in funding R&D remains small,
several government agencies support research in such fields as safety,
sensors, clean diesels and recycling.
Their efforts receive support from affiliated organizations such as the
New Energy and Industrial Technology Development Organizations or the
Japan Petroleum Energy Center, both of which focus on alternative fuels.
Although Japanese auto makers collaborate with these organizations in
various research projects, the companies themselves conduct most
automotive R&D.
Michael Flynn studied the Japanese automotive market in the 1980s during
his 18 years at the University of Michigan’s Office for the Study of
Automotive Transportation. He retired in 2005.
Flynn says the Japanese auto industry now outshines the rest of the
world on the R&D front, which he attributes to the cultural view that,
when it comes to research, many heads are better than one.
“Cooperative research is much more characteristic of the Japanese
economy, in general,” he says. “The government is more tolerant of
things that, for us, would verge on antitrust issues. In Japan, they are
seen as reasonable, rational cooperative efforts.”
Earlier this year, Jim Press, a former senior executive with Toyota in
North America and now vice chairman at Chrysler LLC, told BusinessWeek
the Japanese government funded development of the enormously successful
Prius hybrid-electric drivetrain. Toyota called Press’ comments
“inaccurate,” insisting it had developed the Prius entirely on its own.
Perhaps in response to joint-research efforts in other parts of the
world, the U.S. auto industry appears to be following suit with
organizations such as the U.S. Council for Automotive Research.
USCAR is an umbrella organization for collaborative research by General
Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler. Its U.S. Advanced Battery
Conso
Clearly the EPA does not know how to deal with this.
As what makes sense to me, when the Volt's engine is running, what power is not used by the electric drive will recharge the battery. However, this will be slow. read the link for more info.
Anyway the way it really works per GM is the best way. Once the battery gets down to 30% the engine kicks in and keeps it charged above 30% while the car continues to do what it is asked to do.
No, it's gonna be fun to see how people like their Volt's and like the Volt's reliability, performance, gas savings, etc. This thing is gonna cost somewhere around $40,000? Ouch, the thing is, Mitsubishi's new i-MIEV for 2009 in Japan and 2010 for America, will be an all-electric that will run somewhere around $30,000. Hopefully less some government rebates and such. So these new "green" toys are not going to come cheap, by any stretch.
I would say the Volt should be a hit with American people, though, people could use some rebate help with it as well.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Looks like the first 250,000 units will get a $7500 tax credit from Uncle Sam and in some states perhaps a state credit. That will mean the vehicle will sell for a bit under $30k. So with the gas savings this could be a bunch closer to a financial breakeven vehicle.(Assuming gas does not continue down, $3.40 around here now) Of course the price is gonna drop after the 2nd year with the battery improvements and cost efficiencies. By 2013 it sounds like EVERYONE is gonna be selling vehicles with the large Li-Ion batteries. But who really knows. Lithium may become scarce and cost prohibitive. We will have to wait and find out.
As far as battery types go, you're right, improvements are on the way. It is in a state of flux and change, but it sounds like the Volt is a good and solid design. That's why I am curious to see how these cars hold up under day-to-day use. Performance and reliability is what I'm curious about with the Volt. Heck, I may give it a harder look as time goes by, it seems to have a good body design, too.
What is now my top choice, subcompacts and compacts like my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, may some day give way to cars like the Volt. I have undergone a change in thinking as to the future of automotive, it happened for me around the change of the new year into 2008. I grew bored and tired of continual talk about dependence on foreign oil, warring over oil, running out of oil, etc., and it became hideously clear that we need to look elsewhere for our propulsion methods for our new automobiles. Cars like the Volt are fitting the new world bill, I do believe.
I think I'll start researching the Volt a lot more, GM probably has a separate website for the Volt, I would think.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
September 2007. Chrysler LLC may suffer the worst drop in recent memory,
down 36.5 percent from 2007 September figures, Edmunds says. Ford Motor
Co. sales could be down 25.1 percent compared with September 2007, and
General Motors could drop 23.9 percent.
they did not seem to guess on the others. I predict they will be hurt just as bad. Honda will come out the best.
The only GM dealer in the actual city of San Francisco, a dealer that has been around FOREVER, is closing its Pontiac Buick GMC franchise, but will keep Chevy, Cadillac, and Saab for now. The nearest new Buick to me keeps getting further and further away...
They all blame several years of slow sales that have now ceased entirely as a result of the credit crunch this year.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I guess GM car sales are holding their own in this down market.
Chevrolet Malibu retail sales up 192 percent;
Pontiac Vibe up 61 percent compared with last September
Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook crossover total sales up 10 percent;
72,500 Chevrolet Silverado, Avalanche and GMC Sierra pickups sold; beats industry trend as segment-leading vehicles grab market share
GM's market share estimated at 27 percent, marks second consecutive month of market share gains
Total Q3 sales up 4 percent compared with Q2, with market share improving by more than 3 percentage points
GM trucks were down 20%. Much better than total industry of 27%.
link title
It's only going to get worse considering tight credit.
Regards,
OW
The Chevrolet Cruze, a roomy and stylish compact sedan, will be built on at least four continents and become the face of GM's effort to transform Chevrolet from a parochial American brand into a global powerhouse like Toyota, Ford and Volkswagen.
"The Cruze is much more important to GM than the Volt," the celebrated extended-range electric car Chevrolet will launch in 2010, said Stephanie Brinley of consultant AutoPacific. While the revolutionary Volt has generated reams of positive publicity for GM, it will initially sell in small numbers and almost certainly lose money.
"It's a real step up in looks and content," said Rebecca Lindland of analyst Global Insight. "This is a small car they can get more money for."
In addition to stylish lines reminiscent of the hot-selling Chevrolet Malibu, the Cruze will offer more interior space and better fuel economy than any other compact car sold in America,
American Chevrolet dealers may eventually get a compact minivan like the Cruze-based Orlando concept car shown in Paris Wednesday. The Orlando could top 30 m.p.g. on the highway, Peper said.
"Chevrolet's vehicles are becoming exponentially better," said Joe Phillippi, principal of AutoTrends Consulting, Short Hills, N.J. "I'm very impressed by the Orlando. It's gotta be somewhere in the product plan."
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081002/BUSINESS01/810020411/10- 02/BUSINESS
Kretz just dealt her boss a fourth straight ace. The 2009 Chevrolet Traverse completes a lay-down hand and gives Chevrolet its best family hauler in decades.
Buoyed by an exceptionally clean and attractive design, appealing features, good fuel economy and a competitive price,
Prices for the 2009 Traverse start at $28,555 for a base LS front-drive model. The least-expensive all-wheel drive model is a $30,255 LS. The top-of-the line all-wheel drive LTZ costs $41,075 and includes leather upholstery, a navigation system and memory seats. All prices exclude destination charges.
The Traverse's key competitors include the Ford Flex, Honda Pilot, Hyundai Veracruz, Mazda CX-9 and Toyota Highlander.
The Traverse I tested falls in the middle of the price range for comparable models of those vehicles. It surpassed them for looks, comfort and practicality, making it an ace in the hole for stylish kid-carrying.
Like the other seven- and eight-seat crossover SUVs, the Traverse also aims to compete with minivans like the Dodge Grand Caravan, Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna by offering kid-friendly room, ease of entry and luggage space without the baggage that comes with minivan looks.
Style, value, practicality and comfort. That's another four aces, and this hand has been played. The Chevrolet Traverse wins.
Competing automakers can push their chips to the middle of the table and wait for the next deal.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081002/COL14/810020412/1002/BU- SINESS
GM expects gain
General Motors Corp. said in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday that it expects to record a significant accounting-adjustment gain from revaluing the cost of future UAW retiree health costs in the quarter ended Tuesday. The automaker said it has now received the necessary court approvals and regulatory review of its accounting treatment to transfer UAW postretirement health care to an independent trust -- known as the voluntary employee beneficiary association -- effective Jan. 1, 2010. With that approval, GM will terminate GM retiree health coverage for UAW retirees on Jan. 1, 2010. That means it can reduce on its balance sheet the amount it previously needed to count as a health care liability.
The share did not come with the expense of incentives, which he said averaged only $100 per vehicle more than in August and were flat from July to August despite the monthlong employee pricing offer, LaNeve said.
Incentive spending was reduced, he said, because GM did almost no leasing during the month
Light truck demand at GM fell 19 percent in September, as sales of the Trailblazer dropped 31 percent and demand for the Tahoe fell 52 percent. sales of Chevrolet full-size pickups fared comparably better, edging down just 5.5 percent.
GM's car sales slid 10 percent, as a 17 percent drop in Cobalt sales and combined declines of more than 30 percent for both Cadillac and Buick cars off set a 68 percent jump in Malibu sales and 17 percent increase in demand for its Impala.
"An increasing number of dealers are simply closing their doors because sales have plummeted, credit has dried up, the overall retail environment is increasingly challenging and potential investors are sitting on the sidelines," said Paul Melville, a partner with Grant Thornton LLP, which issued the forecast.
"In addition, the domestic automakers who badly need retail consolidation are not spending much of their scarce capital on the problem because the economy is doing it for them," he said.
The loans range from 36 to 60 months, depending on the model.
In a statement, Toyota called the program unprecedented for the Japanese automaker as it sought to "take aim" at the credit squeeze inhibiting U.S. auto sales.
GM’s Oshawa Car Plant Honored with “Founder’s Award”
Last Friday GM’s Oshawa Car Plant was presented with the prestigious J.D. Power and Associates “Founder’s Award” in recognition of their commitment to quality and a solid track record of industry-leading performance.
The Founder’s Award is a discretionary award presented by J.D. Power and Associates, recognizing individuals or companies that demonstrate dedication, commitment and sustained improvement in serving customers. In the 40-year history of J.D. Power and Associates, only 22 companies or individuals have received the award.
To learn more about Oshawa’s accomplishments, please read the press release.
Tech Talk
GM’S Boost in Efficient Four-Cylinders Includes More Turbos
GM will double its global production of small four-cylinder engines (1.0L to 1.4L) by 2011, with more than half of the increase coming in North America. The 1.4L Turbo enables great vehicle performance and fuel economy. One-third of GM’s North American engine volume will be four-cylinders by 2011, and 21% of the four-cylinder volume will be turbocharged – a seven-fold increase over today’s volume of turbo engines.
For more details, please see the press release.
GM and OnStar Create Technology to Help Save Lives
Yesterday, General Motors of Canada and OnStar demonstrated technology that assists in the safe recovery of subscribers’ stolen vehicles. Stolen Vehicle Slowdown sends a signal to a subscriber’s stolen vehicle to reduce engine power slowing the vehicle down gradually. Research has shown that 95% of OnStar subscribers want the Stolen Vehicle Slowdown service available on their cars and trucks.
Sunday on CBS at 7:00 pm.
General Motors Corp. said Friday it will shut down its
SUV assembly plant here on Dec. 23 as the company shifts focus to
smaller vehicles.
GM spokesman Chris Lee said employees gathered in the plant Friday
afternoon were informed of the closing date. Some 1,100 remaining
workers are affected.
The automaker earlier this year announced plans to close the plant by
the summer of 2010 or sooner, then accelerated shutdown plans as part of
companywide cost-cutting moves.
way into the media only rarely because the California survey firm guards
it to avoid embarrassing clients.
So when Power's 2008 Initial Quality numbers for midsize cars leaked
recently, they warranted some further scrutiny. And parsing the numbers
reveals some surprising developments
As long as I can remember, Japanese manufacturers have been regarded as
the gold standard in quality. No more. This year's IQS winner in the
midsize segment, by a healthy margin, is the Chevrolet Malibu, with a
mere 80 problems per 100 customers. That's an excellent showing for a
car in its first year of production, when assembly plants are still
learning how to put the pieces together.
Other non-Asians also did well. The Ford Fusion finished third with 88
problems, the Volkswagen Passat ranked fourth with 94, and the Buick
LaCrosse came in fifth with 96. Buick traditionally scores well in these
surveys, but Ford and VW are both moving up the charts.
To be sure, two Japanese models, the Mitsubishi Galant and Toyota Camry
also finished in the top five. But the Nissan Altima finished below
average, as did, shockingly, the Honda Accord. Nissan is typically an
also-ran in quality, but Honda has been a leader in the past. The 2008
Accord - another model in its first year of production - fell all the
way from second in last year's midsize survey with 22 more defects per
100.
Bringing up the rear in the midsize quality ranks was the Subaru Outback
Wagon - another historical also-ran - and two Chrysler products: the
Dodge Avenger and the mechanically identical Chrysler Sebring. They
recorded 171 and 183 defects respectively, more than twice as many as
the Malibu.
A couple of conclusions can be drawn from this data. One, it is possible
for American mass-producers to equal or better the quality of their
overseas competitors. And two, it still makes sense to avoid purchasing
a car during its first year of production - even though that car may
carry a famous Asian name on the trunk lid.
Again even a media person gets it wrong. Century won this award about 8 years ago and many other GM products have beat out Camry/Accord over the years since.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
GM is running short on Chevrolet Cobalt cars despite adding a third shift this summer at its Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant.
GM spokesman Chris Lee said the company hopes the weekend work at Lordstown will deliver sufficient supply by next year. The factory will run two shifts every Saturday for the rest of the year, except for the Thanksgiving and Veterans Day holiday weekends, he said.
Cobalt sales fell 17% last month from a year earlier, a drop GM attributed to short supply. Still, Cobalt sales for the year are up 6%, while GM's sales overall have fallen 18% in a weak U.S. auto market.
Sales of the compact Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic models also fell last month.
Dealers across the U.S. have fewer than eight weeks' worth of the Cobalt, Corolla and Civic in stock, according to Wardsauto.com. The industry norm is to have at least a 10-week supply. The Ford Focus, with roughly a 13-week supply according to Wards, saw a 5% bump in sales last month.
GM has no plans to build car-assembly plants or convert truck factories and instead will manage increasing demand for cars by adding shifts at existing locations.
GM is building a small-engine plant in Flint, Mich., scheduled to open in 2010. An engine shortage at GM's Tonawanda, N.Y., plant forced the auto maker to cancel overtime shifts at the Lordstown factory last month, according to United Auto Workers officials.
If not, I don't how to make sense of that claim.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, without cooling. Even though all production Volt will have a cooling system for their batteries, these test units had run their entire lifetime with it disconnected. Yet, they purred (OK, so batteries don't "purr" per se, but you get the automotive analogy) along at a room-temperature 25 degrees Celsius. The packs just down the hallway running with full cooling? Well, they ran but two degrees cooler. That's why Mr. Dauch just laughs when he reads media reports of the problems that GM's development team must be undergoing.
"The battery technology is simply not the challenge anymore," says Dauch with a certain amount of frustration, "Normal engineering crap is what we spend much of our time working on. Are they going to make the connectors in time for production? Can they reduce the number of fasteners needed since fewer parts means greater reliability? These are the kinds of things that worry us."
Finally, Mr. Foster objects to the Volt's projected price that educated guesses place squarely in low $40,000 range. And, yes, Mr. Foster is right; this is definitely more than a similarly-sized vehicle with the same equipment would cost if it were powered by traditional gasoline engine. But does Mr. Foster really expect the first-generation of any ground-breaking technology to cost no more than the outgoing? Does he really think that Toyota made a profit on all those firstgen Priuses it blew out the door at US$19,995?
And if the technology is too expensive for anyone to build at a profit, is Mr. Foster really suggesting GM abandon its alternative fuel strategy? Mr. Foster's voice would be very faint indeed compared to the howls protesting that Detroit should be forced to make alternative-fuel vehicles at any price.
So, yes, General Motors will soon be selling what is, compared with today's vehicles, a car that's overpriced for its performance, size and equipment. But what Mr. Foster didn't tell you is that all auto manufacturers are going to have to put out some sort of over-priced (or profitless), under-equipped, alternative-fuel, "green" vehicle. And after my sojourn to GM's test labs, I'm convinced that Chevy's Volt will prove the most useful of the lot.
The group of 15 carmakers requesting the funds - those that make up the Brussels-based European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) -- include Volkswagen, PSA Peugeot Citroen, Fiat and Renault as well as General Motors, Ford and Toyota.
The automakers also are urging the European Union to provide consumers with incentives to scrap cars that are more than eight years old in order to accelerate purchases.
Car sales in Western Europe are forecasted to fall to 12.4 million in 2009, the lowest level since 1995 and down from 14.8 million last year.
Regards,
OW
At least the Traverse is a fine automobile. That makes the TB's death something I can swallow.
Can GM and Ford Scrape By?
Regards,
OW
Talk about scraping by. Bankruptcy is beginning to look pretty good by comparison...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wish them good luck, just like all the financial institutions that all of a sudden were blindsided.
Like I said, K.I.S.S. What the heck is a derivative security anyway? I'd have soon invested in those as buying another vehicle from GM!
Regards,
OW
If you read the words it says they are getting a review. Do you not think that every OEM is doing the same? Times are real tough and it will get worse. Yes some programs may get a delay and some may even be cancelled but nowhere is there any real facts that something is getting cancelled. Business Week loves to play up the words into something. BUT you can bet the Board is looking for cuts and ways to save money. There are always programs that can be delayed that will not mean much to the bottom line but I really doubt the Malibu will be delayed much if at all. Then again it is just out and I do not know when the next one is due.
I think this country is in for bad times. We keep sending out borrowed money that purchased items not made in this country. That surely cannot last long. Sooner or later the lending countries are going to start tightening their strings.
This is an evolving crisis. I am sure you are correct that ALL auto manufacturers are reviewing their programs and probably will delay or cancel some of the more risky or non-cost effective programs.
GM, Ford and Chrysler will never be the same again. I am absolutely certain of that. In all of this smoke and fire, it is the one certainty that will rise out of the ashes. The market will ensure whatever companies make it to the other side will be viable and poised for growth. It's the Circle of Life. It never ends.
Regards,
OW
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
J.D. Power cut its 2008 U.S. light vehicle sales forecast to 13.6 million units and said it expects sales to fall to 13.2 million units in 2009. Global Insight on Wednesday cut its 2008 U.S. auto sales outlook and warned that a recovery toward more normal levels may not occur until 2013.
Citigroup also cut GM and Ford Motor Co to "sell" ratings on Wednesday.
Ford shares fell 20 cents, or 7.5 percent, to $2.46 on Thursday. Ford stock had reached its lowest level in a quarter century on Wednesday, falling as low as $2.10.
GM shares were off $1.01, or 14.6 percent, at $5.90.
Regards,
OW
Gas or GM/Ford stock? The word is that it will be difficult to get investors back into these stocks.
There must be a light at the end of the tunnel. Now I know what they mean by a perfect storm.
Regards,
OW