I was cruising through Insideline today and i noticed that Honda is building a 800 million dollar plant in Mexico. Recently Mazda announced they were building a new plant in Mexico for the 6 and Ford also has a plant there for the Fusion engine(correct me if im wrong).
I was curious if this will affect your vehicle purchase decision. Me personally, i would prefer a US/Can built vehicle but if i really really wanted the particular vehicle i think i could live with the Mexican craftsmanship
Is this a more common thing for the future due to the UAW? I will give props to GM for their commitment to US plants they already have(Example using their Michigan plant for the 2014 Impala). A few other manufacturers have not bailed to Mexico recently and built plants in the US(Hyundai/VW)
What surprised me was the Subaru Legacy beat the Accord in mileage by 1mpg, for both 4- and 6-cylinder models. That was despite Subaru's AWD handicap.
I think Honda went big and may have miscalculated where the segment was heading.
To be honest, though, I think for the most part this segment has a bunch of very close competitors. The differences from best to worst are small, so that's why I think smart shoppers can get a deal on competent cars that are just victims of a crowded segment.
I was curious if this will affect your vehicle purchase decision. Me personally, i would prefer a US/Can built vehicle but if i really really wanted the particular vehicle i think i could live with the Mexican craftsmanship
My preference would be a car built in the US, regardless of who's logo is on the grille. But that's still secondary to how well the car fits my needs/wants/desires.
Interesting segment on WTOP news radio this AM that only 3% of our purchases are actually from China, some 88.5% are from the USA. I think they include food, though.
If you look at labels, it almost seems to be the other way around. They did mention the percentage of durable goods from China was much higher.
If you look at labels, it almost seems to be the other way around. They did mention the percentage of durable goods from China was much higher.
I know, tell me about it! I have four monitors at work. Two of them were made in Korea, but the other two, which are also the newest, were made in China. All three of my keyboards were made in China. My electric stapler was made in Japan, but it's also about 9 or 10 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if the newer ones are made in China.
Even disposable stuff like the staples we use, memory sticks, etc are made in China.
About the only thing I see on my desk made in the US is a bottle of hand sanitizer, and an old Texas Instruments business calculator.
Seems like just about every sneaker I see is made in China these days, although it seems like a lot of boots are still made in the US.
Also, I guess a lot of things that we take for granted and don't notice as much, but still count towards production, are still made in the US. For example, I'd imagine most of the materials that went into our building at work were made in the US. At least, I don't see any mold on the drywall yet! :surprise:
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I was cruising through Insideline today and i noticed that Honda is building a 800 million dollar plant in Mexico. Recently Mazda announced they were building a new plant in Mexico for the 6 and Ford also has a plant there for the Fusion engine(correct me if im wrong).
I was curious if this will affect your vehicle purchase decision.
To be honest, even tho I have had great luck with Hondas and they are still one of the companies I gravitate to when it's time to buy, I probably wouldn't buy one built in Mexico no matter how much I liked it. If it were Canada then it wouldn't bother me (my folks and I both had Acura MDX's which were excellent), but Mexico is one of those places that I just don't feel the same confidence with.
This one came from Mexico, and I also saw first hand the same thing happen to a different one on a road trip a few months back. I can't imagine being in a situation like this.
Here is what we all knew was the fact but some hesitate to even THINK the D3 are holding their own only due to lease sales.
Strip away the leases and the retail customers are still flocking to the competition despite the Japan Tsunami effect. The Koreans are blowing their doors/windows/fenders off!
And one thing is clear: Toyota and Honda’s tumble from the top was not disguised by a huge bump in fleet sales. Though retail volume at the top two Japanese brands dropped by between 20 and 30 percent, both cut way back on fleet sales as well which is a highly recommendable move when supply problems hit. After all, you have to squeeze every last penny out of the remaining volume until inventory levels even out. On the other hand, both Ford and GM cranked up fleet volume last month, with Ford’s fleet percentage leaping to an industry-leading 31%. That gives Ford the lowest retail percentage of all major automakers, with GM only five points ahead. Chrysler was the only other major OEM under 90% for the month, at 84%. So those who argue that domestics are taking over the industry need to dial back their expectations a bit for the moment: between the supply issues and the fleet picture, it’s too early to determine what exactly is going on in the industry. But if the domestics trim back on fleet and Toyota and Honda continue to lose volume over the month of August, then we can start talking about the kinds of seismic shifts that some are already reading in the sales numbers.
I'm hearing crickets sort of like when someone posted Warranty expense figures comparing the Big 3's high cost on warranty claims to the lower Japanese 3 who spend little on warranty work (thanks to more flawless or close to flawless vehicles).
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Careful with that word...it's dangerous, and you might jinx yourself.
Plus, there's no such thing. I've been in used cars people claim are in good condition and noticed squeeky brakes, pull to one side, and noisy wheel bearings. Obvious stuff.
I'm very surprised that Toyota's and Honda's numbers are so low...this is likely a short-term phenomenon.
Looking at July 2010 Honda was 2% fleet then, so it's not a short term phenomenon, Honda has always had low fleet sales. Toyota dropped from 6% in July of 2010 to a Honda like 2% in July '11. Once Toyota ramps up production I'd guess they'll be back around 6%. Still low compared to the domestics, but not surprising or that big of a deal IMO.
Most companies are going to buy domestic vehicles particularly with trucks. I'm kind of surprised Hyundai is so low, but I guess they don't sell much outside of rental fleets.
I'm hearing crickets sort of like when someone posted Warranty expense figures comparing the Big 3's high cost on warranty claims to the lower Japanese 3 who spend little on warranty work (thanks to more flawless or close to flawless vehicles).
I used to have access via a friend for Automotive news and they would occasionally report warranty expenses by mfg. and no doubt the D3 was far higher per vehicle than the Asian makes.
I'd guess trucks are a large portion of warranty claims. HD trucks in commercial fleets get abused big time, plus diesels are not cheap to fix. Toy/Honda don't have that issue. Probably no way to find it, but removing warranty costs for trucks and only comparing cars would be interesting.
yes, but Honda has to deal with young people making GO FAST modifications, special exhaust systems, intakes, FAST N' furious stuff and although modifications MAY take away a warranty, it doesn't necessarily make it so. Add to that the fact that you can UNMODIFY modifications when you need warranty work done before you take it into the dealer.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Best Malibu was 2011 and it's 6.3 seconds (not bad, but not great).
So let's be honest here, we can all quote different sources, but when the same standards are used, the Accord is about 7% better performing than the Malibu thanks to sheer Horsepower.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Honda always has minuscule fleet numbers. I've never been offered one as a rental. I did get a Camry - once.
Now, I haven't gotten into either but having looked pretty closely from the outside I think I actually like the Cruze better than the new Focus. I wasn't expecting that. At one point I'll ahve to manage actually driving both and seeing what I think.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Volt: 14 per state are unsold. Indiana has 78 counties. 64 counties may not have one available. Back when I worked on them, GM made 57 Small Block V8 powered full size trucks per day, per state, including on Christmas. That's one for nearly every county in Indiana, every day. So, the odds of one of the hundreds of Chevy dealers in a given state having a Volt available being 1 in about 10 isn't 'sold out'? Some counties have 8 dealerships and some have 1 or 2. Indiana is an average state, having 2% of the US population. Would you stand up in front of a GM marketing manager and tell him that plenty of Volts are available?
Has the Volt even been released to all states yet? I don't think so. Last I looked national rollout is in November. Only in target markets at the moment.
I see 40 of them within 100 miles of here at the Jersey shore. That 100 mile radius would include New York and Philadelphia.
They are all selling in the mid $40K range . Too rich for my blood. I'd take a Cruze and live with still pretty good mileage. On the other hand we need the early adopters to bring the price down.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
yes, but Honda has to deal with young people making GO FAST modifications, special exhaust systems, intakes, FAST N' furious stuff and although modifications MAY take away a warranty, it doesn't necessarily make it so. Add to that the fact that you can UNMODIFY modifications when you need warranty work done before you take it into the dealer.
Same thing with the diesel pickups. These guys are installing boost controllers, exhaust systems etc, allowing these diesels to put out insane amounts of power. I wouldn't be surprised if a higher percentage of diesel pickups are modified vs civics.
They are all selling in the mid $40K range . Too rich for my blood. I'd take a Cruze and live with still pretty good mileage. On the other hand we need the early adopters to bring the price down.
You're not kidding, the Volt lease is $349 while the Cruze lease is $159.
Plus that already takes the $7500 into account.
The comparison is fair because the Volt is based on the Cruze platform. Cruze is actually bigger and seats 5 vs. 4. You're not going to spend $190 more per month to fuel a Cruze, not within the lease's mileage limits.
You never reach a break-even point with the Volt, basically.
I had a co-worker of mine who inquired about buying one for gits and shiggles and there is apparenly a clause in the lease agreement that when you trade it in, you must pay for a new battery at the tune of 8000 bucks.
I don't know if it's true or not but it would certainly explain the 349 lease rate on a 43 thousand dollar econobox. :sick:
Those acceleration figures at that site aren't necessarily coming from the same source. They get them from all over the place, but mainly old Motortrend, Car and Driver, and Road and Track tests. And those times can be all over the map depending on weather conditions, temperature, what driver is testing the car, sample error (one Accord or Malibu might be tuned a bit better than another Accord or Malibu)
I doubt the $8000 battery story...maybe if you neglect it or something.
Any how, the $349 lease makes sense because the government is paying for the first $7500 in depreciation.
Example. Let's say you compare a Volt with a $43k BMW. Just for kicks, assume the residual on both, after 36 months and 36k miles, is 50%. So you pay half of $43k, or $21.5k, for your usage.
But...with the Volt you get the full $7.5k credit, so you really only pay $14k. That's why the lease is about 2/3rds the price of the similarly priced Bimmer.
Look at it another way, the $7500 credit amounts to $208 per month before we even factor in interest. So that $349 lease would really actually be closer to $559 plus or more.
Still, any way you look at it, a Cruze will always cost less and offers more space to boot.
Survey: U.S. automakers start disappointing customers again
After putting themselves back in the race with the likes of Toyota and Honda, Detroit's Big 3 automakers are starting to fall behind again, a new customer satisfaction survey finds.
While domestic sales have increased (the exceptions are the Chrysler and Lincoln nameplates with negative year-to-date sales growth), lower customer satisfaction could impede Detroit's comeback.
I would be curious as well. I have no interest in the Volt myself so I won't waste my time going to a dealer to find out but like I said, it was an inquiry by a co-worker. He was livid about it.
Dealer required a 5000 dollar down payment (refundable of course) just to drive it as well...
Toyota and Lexus tied Caddy for first place with 87, but Ford's 85 is close and GM's 84 average is also pretty close.
Don't mean the shoot the messenger, but that story seems to be slanted. GM and Ford both did quite well, easily beating the average. Here's a more complete list:
Toyota 87 Cadillac 87 Lexus 87 Lincoln 86 Mercedes 86 Honda 85 Ford 85 Buick 85 Nissan 85 VW 84 BMW 83 Hyundai 83 Kia 81 Chrysler 78
Chrysler bringing up the rear is not news. They've been doing that since two bailouts ago. If anything, they are good at being consistently bad. They are magnificent at being the worst.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
To be fair to Hyundai, it seems a lot of their recent purchasers and owners came from Honda, and probably have some buyer's remorse for picking the wrong company that starts with an H.
It may be cheaper initially, but how much is satisfaction during ownership worth to you?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
>but how much is satisfaction during ownership worth to you?
You mean like not having Honda tell you that your AC went out and the whole system's parts have to be replaced. It's been years and they still don't built them right?
Or do you mean like having your automatic transmission NOT fail every 20-30,000 miles on your Odyssey at $4000-$5000 to have a rebuilt replacement that has the same failure as the originals built in?
I'd say that's quite a bit of value for me.
And less road noise which Honda and devotees pass off as a sign of quality.
I've heard of Ford making engines with a lifespan of less than 40,000 miles, blowing at just past the 36K mile warranty. Of course, no goodwill from Ford, 36,001 miles lifespan is ACCEPTABLE for them.
This is from the late 90's or early 2000's, not ancient history.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I've heard of Ford making engines with a lifespan of less than 40,000 miles, blowing at just past the 36K mile warranty. Of course, no goodwill from Ford, 36,001 miles lifespan is ACCEPTABLE for them.
This is from the late 90's or early 2000's, not ancient history.
You don't have to go back that far. Just google 6.0 powerstroke or 5.4 2v and 3v. The problems are endless, the powerstroke alone cost Ford almost a billion dollars in warranty claims back in 04 or so. Granted not every engine has problems, but I've been burned by the spark plug fiasco on the 3v 5.4. Now that I've got 90k miles on it I'm crossing my fingers I don't get the dreaded cam phaser issue that seemed to be all to common.
GM isn't innocent of problems either.
I'm willing to bet the average Honda is more reliable than the average Ford, GM, and or Dodge. I'm not a Honda fan boy, I've never owned one and probably never will.
I'm willing to bet the average Honda is more reliable than the average Ford, GM, and or Dodge. I'm not a Honda fan boy, I've never owned one and probably never will.
I already bet 250 Benjamin Franklin's that Honda would prove more reliable than my Dodge ownership experience. That was AFTER all of CA's high taxes, fees, and surcharges were added to the vehicle in November of 2002.
I was proven right and Honda even stood by my side when something big did finally go wrong even though I was past the warranty period at 42,000 miles. Even if they hadn't of stood behind the product, it would have still been 1,000 times more reliable and dependable than the Dodge.
To top it off, 50 months and 65,000 miles later, someone paid me back 132.5 Benjamin Franklins to take it off my hands and go have more fun by purchasing an Audi A3. I believe one of the low ball offers on the Dodge with the same mileage was only 8 Benjamin's. Yes, I said eight.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Since the Big3 DWARF the Koreans in size, it seems rather obvious the US manufacturers should have the firepower to delight customers. Not so and it is current data that infuriates you!
Seems they are slipping yet again and you can't handle it. That's understandable.
See the First Year % Change and then tell me Hyundai is not gaining customer satisfaction compared to Chevy.
>If only GM's were as reliable as your return to these tired points
Are you saying those are not true points? Do I need to give you links to CRV ACs and to Odyssey forum here for transmissions? They are current. Whoopee! :P
>It's just that there have been a lot more issues with GM so it is less noteworthy.
Aaaaah. Just as noteworthy. But what's always interesting is the constant degrading of GM in a positive GM titled discussion by a few.
Actually what's even funnier, to cite Lutz's CarGuys book is how the foreign car owners passed off failures in their own vehicles as a minor or trivial problem. While they and the media roundly criticized each GM item as a problem. E.g., look at the shock some toyota folks endured when they found toyota had been misleading the NHSTA about the problems in their beloved toyotas since 2002.
I find little more amusing than the current posts in some foreign car topics cited where owners now claim loudly they'll never buy another (insert favored, beloved brand) and they've bought (insert number of past purchases of said brand) of these and (favored brand) has lost a customer. Sounds like a few posting alleged experiences in GM discussions in the past.
How about a reality check here about the past experiences with the other brands? Amusing as well is reading through a discussion and someone posts a problem with their beloved vehicle and the response from a regular, seemingly knowledgeable poster that "that's a known problem with these cars.
That further supports Lutz's tenets about blind love on the part of media and owners of their vehicle. Of course, it's hard for someone who chose their foreign vehicle to admit it has shortcomings.
You don't have to go back that far. Just google 6.0 powerstroke or 5.4 2v and 3v. The problems are endless, the powerstroke alone cost Ford almost a billion dollars in warranty claims back in 04 or so.
Comments
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I was curious if this will affect your vehicle purchase decision. Me personally, i would prefer a US/Can built vehicle but if i really really wanted the particular vehicle i think i could live with the Mexican craftsmanship
Is this a more common thing for the future due to the UAW? I will give props to GM for their commitment to US plants they already have(Example using their Michigan plant for the 2014 Impala). A few other manufacturers have not bailed to Mexico recently and built plants in the US(Hyundai/VW)
I think Honda went big and may have miscalculated where the segment was heading.
To be honest, though, I think for the most part this segment has a bunch of very close competitors. The differences from best to worst are small, so that's why I think smart shoppers can get a deal on competent cars that are just victims of a crowded segment.
My preference would be a car built in the US, regardless of who's logo is on the grille. But that's still secondary to how well the car fits my needs/wants/desires.
Interesting segment on WTOP news radio this AM that only 3% of our purchases are actually from China, some 88.5% are from the USA. I think they include food, though.
If you look at labels, it almost seems to be the other way around. They did mention the percentage of durable goods from China was much higher.
I know, tell me about it! I have four monitors at work. Two of them were made in Korea, but the other two, which are also the newest, were made in China. All three of my keyboards were made in China. My electric stapler was made in Japan, but it's also about 9 or 10 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if the newer ones are made in China.
Even disposable stuff like the staples we use, memory sticks, etc are made in China.
About the only thing I see on my desk made in the US is a bottle of hand sanitizer, and an old Texas Instruments business calculator.
Seems like just about every sneaker I see is made in China these days, although it seems like a lot of boots are still made in the US.
Also, I guess a lot of things that we take for granted and don't notice as much, but still count towards production, are still made in the US. For example, I'd imagine most of the materials that went into our building at work were made in the US. At least, I don't see any mold on the drywall yet! :surprise:
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I was curious if this will affect your vehicle purchase decision.
To be honest, even tho I have had great luck with Hondas and they are still one of the companies I gravitate to when it's time to buy, I probably wouldn't buy one built in Mexico no matter how much I liked it. If it were Canada then it wouldn't bother me (my folks and I both had Acura MDX's which were excellent), but Mexico is one of those places that I just don't feel the same confidence with.
Car fire extinguished on I-94 in Pittsfield Township
This one came from Mexico, and I also saw first hand the same thing happen to a different one on a road trip a few months back. I can't imagine being in a situation like this.
Let's just say I'm hesitant...
What happened to
"they can't build them fast enough"?
"dealers are taking orders they can't fill"
"Ramping up production to meet increasing demand"
Could it be propoganda? No way!!!
Seems pretty easy to get one if you want to
Strip away the leases and the retail customers are still flocking to the competition despite the Japan Tsunami effect. The Koreans are blowing their doors/windows/fenders off!
And one thing is clear: Toyota and Honda’s tumble from the top was not disguised by a huge bump in fleet sales. Though retail volume at the top two Japanese brands dropped by between 20 and 30 percent, both cut way back on fleet sales as well which is a highly recommendable move when supply problems hit. After all, you have to squeeze every last penny out of the remaining volume until inventory levels even out. On the other hand, both Ford and GM cranked up fleet volume last month, with Ford’s fleet percentage leaping to an industry-leading 31%. That gives Ford the lowest retail percentage of all major automakers, with GM only five points ahead. Chrysler was the only other major OEM under 90% for the month, at 84%. So those who argue that domestics are taking over the industry need to dial back their expectations a bit for the moment: between the supply issues and the fleet picture, it’s too early to determine what exactly is going on in the industry. But if the domestics trim back on fleet and Toyota and Honda continue to lose volume over the month of August, then we can start talking about the kinds of seismic shifts that some are already reading in the sales numbers.
Regards,
OW
I realize they're not the best sales, but you go get economies of scale.
I'm hearing crickets sort of like when someone posted Warranty expense figures comparing the Big 3's high cost on warranty claims to the lower Japanese 3 who spend little on warranty work (thanks to more flawless or close to flawless vehicles).
Careful with that word...it's dangerous, and you might jinx yourself.
Plus, there's no such thing. I've been in used cars people claim are in good condition and noticed squeeky brakes, pull to one side, and noisy wheel bearings. Obvious stuff.
No car is anywhere close.
Regards,
OW
Looking at July 2010 Honda was 2% fleet then, so it's not a short term phenomenon, Honda has always had low fleet sales. Toyota dropped from 6% in July of 2010 to a Honda like 2% in July '11. Once Toyota ramps up production I'd guess they'll be back around 6%. Still low compared to the domestics, but not surprising or that big of a deal IMO.
Most companies are going to buy domestic vehicles particularly with trucks. I'm kind of surprised Hyundai is so low, but I guess they don't sell much outside of rental fleets.
I used to have access via a friend for Automotive news and they would occasionally report warranty expenses by mfg. and no doubt the D3 was far higher per vehicle than the Asian makes.
I'd guess trucks are a large portion of warranty claims. HD trucks in commercial fleets get abused big time, plus diesels are not cheap to fix. Toy/Honda don't have that issue. Probably no way to find it, but removing warranty costs for trucks and only comparing cars would be interesting.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Honda-Vtech-0-60-mph-Times.html
says I can win with an '08 Accord over the Malibu.
0-60 in 5.7 seconds!
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Chevrolet-Chevy-0-60-mph-Times.html
Best Malibu was 2011 and it's 6.3 seconds (not bad, but not great).
So let's be honest here, we can all quote different sources, but when the same standards are used, the Accord is about 7% better performing than the Malibu thanks to sheer Horsepower.
Now, I haven't gotten into either but having looked pretty closely from the outside I think I actually like the Cruze better than the new Focus. I wasn't expecting that. At one point I'll ahve to manage actually driving both and seeing what I think.
What's the lease makup of the retail sales? (Fleet sales to banks)
Less total cars were sold to the shrinking economy, but GM gained back lost market share.
I see 40 of them within 100 miles of here at the Jersey shore. That 100 mile radius would include New York and Philadelphia.
They are all selling in the mid $40K range . Too rich for my blood. I'd take a Cruze and live with still pretty good mileage. On the other hand we need the early adopters to bring the price down.
Same thing with the diesel pickups. These guys are installing boost controllers, exhaust systems etc, allowing these diesels to put out insane amounts of power. I wouldn't be surprised if a higher percentage of diesel pickups are modified vs civics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE3VH6cHm24
I don't think the Honda service manager has to worry about this.
Bingo, they're offering free access for a week if you register:
http://www.autonews.com/
I got an Accord for a wedding we went to in Tampa. They're out there, just not as common as others.
Decent, if a little boring, car. Road noise was too high, though.
You're not kidding, the Volt lease is $349 while the Cruze lease is $159.
Plus that already takes the $7500 into account.
The comparison is fair because the Volt is based on the Cruze platform. Cruze is actually bigger and seats 5 vs. 4. You're not going to spend $190 more per month to fuel a Cruze, not within the lease's mileage limits.
You never reach a break-even point with the Volt, basically.
I don't know if it's true or not but it would certainly explain the 349 lease rate on a 43 thousand dollar econobox. :sick:
Any how, the $349 lease makes sense because the government is paying for the first $7500 in depreciation.
Example. Let's say you compare a Volt with a $43k BMW. Just for kicks, assume the residual on both, after 36 months and 36k miles, is 50%. So you pay half of $43k, or $21.5k, for your usage.
But...with the Volt you get the full $7.5k credit, so you really only pay $14k. That's why the lease is about 2/3rds the price of the similarly priced Bimmer.
Look at it another way, the $7500 credit amounts to $208 per month before we even factor in interest. So that $349 lease would really actually be closer to $559 plus or more.
Still, any way you look at it, a Cruze will always cost less and offers more space to boot.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/15/electric-chevy-camaro-tears-down-the-1-4-mile- -in-10-08-seconds/
It's eerily quiet, too.
First I have heard of anything like this.
Can anyone confirm this?
- Ray
Just very curious...
Retail Sales? Same Old, Same Old.
Survey: U.S. automakers start disappointing customers again
After putting themselves back in the race with the likes of Toyota and Honda, Detroit's Big 3 automakers are starting to fall behind again, a new customer satisfaction survey finds.
While domestic sales have increased (the exceptions are the Chrysler and Lincoln nameplates with negative year-to-date sales growth), lower customer satisfaction could impede Detroit's comeback.
Dissapointing Customers Again
Don't worry! Fleet Sales will Save the Day!
Regards,
OW
Dealer required a 5000 dollar down payment (refundable of course) just to drive it as well...
Toyota and Lexus tied Caddy for first place with 87, but Ford's 85 is close and GM's 84 average is also pretty close.
Don't mean the shoot the messenger, but that story seems to be slanted. GM and Ford both did quite well, easily beating the average. Here's a more complete list:
Toyota 87
Cadillac 87
Lexus 87
Lincoln 86
Mercedes 86
Honda 85
Ford 85
Buick 85
Nissan 85
VW 84
BMW 83
Hyundai 83
Kia 81
Chrysler 78
Chrysler bringing up the rear is not news. They've been doing that since two bailouts ago. If anything, they are good at being consistently bad. They are magnificent at being the worst.
It may be cheaper initially, but how much is satisfaction during ownership worth to you?
You mean like not having Honda tell you that your AC went out and the whole system's parts have to be replaced. It's been years and they still don't built them right?
Or do you mean like having your automatic transmission NOT fail every 20-30,000 miles on your Odyssey at $4000-$5000 to have a rebuilt replacement that has the same failure as the originals built in?
I'd say that's quite a bit of value for me.
And less road noise which Honda and devotees pass off as a sign of quality.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is from the late 90's or early 2000's, not ancient history.
This is from the late 90's or early 2000's, not ancient history.
You don't have to go back that far. Just google 6.0 powerstroke or 5.4 2v and 3v. The problems are endless, the powerstroke alone cost Ford almost a billion dollars in warranty claims back in 04 or so. Granted not every engine has problems, but I've been burned by the spark plug fiasco on the 3v 5.4. Now that I've got 90k miles on it I'm crossing my fingers I don't get the dreaded cam phaser issue that seemed to be all to common.
GM isn't innocent of problems either.
I'm willing to bet the average Honda is more reliable than the average Ford, GM, and or Dodge. I'm not a Honda fan boy, I've never owned one and probably never will.
If only GM's were as reliable as your return to these tired points, they might have not gone bankrupt! :P
I already bet 250 Benjamin Franklin's that Honda would prove more reliable than my Dodge ownership experience. That was AFTER all of CA's high taxes, fees, and surcharges were added to the vehicle in November of 2002.
I was proven right and Honda even stood by my side when something big did finally go wrong even though I was past the warranty period at 42,000 miles. Even if they hadn't of stood behind the product, it would have still been 1,000 times more reliable and dependable than the Dodge.
To top it off, 50 months and 65,000 miles later, someone paid me back 132.5 Benjamin Franklins to take it off my hands and go have more fun by purchasing an Audi A3. I believe one of the low ball offers on the Dodge with the same mileage was only 8 Benjamin's. Yes, I said eight.
Seems they are slipping yet again and you can't handle it. That's understandable.
See the First Year % Change and then tell me Hyundai is not gaining customer satisfaction compared to Chevy.
D3 Customer Satisfaction Slipping....As Usual
That's ALL Folks! :shades:
Regards,
OW
Are you saying those are not true points? Do I need to give you links to CRV ACs and to Odyssey forum here for transmissions? They are current. Whoopee! :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No, I'm saying I see these points brought up with complete reliability!
It's just that there have been a lot more issues with GM so it is less noteworthy.
Aaaaah. Just as noteworthy. But what's always interesting is the constant degrading of GM in a positive GM titled discussion by a few.
Actually what's even funnier, to cite Lutz's CarGuys book is how the foreign car owners passed off failures in their own vehicles as a minor or trivial problem. While they and the media roundly criticized each GM item as a problem. E.g., look at the shock some toyota folks endured when they found toyota had been misleading the NHSTA about the problems in their beloved toyotas since 2002.
I find little more amusing than the current posts in some foreign car topics cited where owners now claim loudly they'll never buy another (insert favored, beloved brand) and they've bought (insert number of past purchases of said brand) of these and (favored brand) has lost a customer. Sounds like a few posting alleged experiences in GM discussions in the past.
How about a reality check here about the past experiences with the other brands? Amusing as well is reading through a discussion and someone posts a problem with their beloved vehicle and the response from a regular, seemingly knowledgeable poster that "that's a known problem with these cars.
That further supports Lutz's tenets about blind love on the part of media and owners of their vehicle. Of course, it's hard for someone who chose their foreign vehicle to admit it has shortcomings.
Have a good day.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM to to source components worth US$ 1bn from India over next 2 years
:sick:
Yeah, I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Ford's Powerstroke, but if nothing else, at least it provides some humor for the Mopar/Cummins crowd! :P