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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The SUV usually comes out a year after a redesigned PU.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    GMAC wants to be part of federal rescue program
    WASHINGTON -- GMAC Financial Services wants to be part of the federal government's $700 billion rescue of the nation's financial system, the company said today.
    "GMAC has been in discussions with the government on a multidimensional level," said GMAC spokeswoman Toni Simonetti. "We are interested in exploring options that are available to us through the federal government's tool kit


    Wonder what cut GMAC will get? $25 billion? more? GM should get 1/2 of it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors Corp and Chrysler LLC's owners are discussing a merger that would keep some of Chrysler's operations intact and save jobs with the aim of securing U.S. government financial aid the high-stakes deal would require, people familiar with the talks said on Sunday.
    A merger under these terms would give control to GM but leave Chrysler's owner, Cerberus Capital Management, with stake of less than 10 percent in the combined company, according to the sources who were not authorized to discuss the talks publicly.

    Such a merger would shake up the U.S. industrial landscape and create an automaker with about a third of the U.S. car market by sales. But its immediate success would hinge on the willingness of the next U.S. administration to step up with billions of dollars in immediate aid.

    Costs and production would have to be slashed. But the merged company would also have to show it represented a less painful alternative for American workers and suppliers than the failure of one or both of the struggling auto giants.

    "It's clear that there are three parties at the table. There's GM, Cerberus and then there's the government," said one person briefed on the talks.

    Until now, attention has focused on the prospect of a GM acquisition in which the larger automaker would move quickly to cull Chrysler's slow-selling vehicle line-up and cut more than half of Chrysler's 66,000 employees.

    LENDER OF LAST RESORT?

    While a deal that keeps more operations afloat would risk deepening those problems of excess capacity, it could also win government backing and provide GM with much-needed liquidity.

    Analysts say GM would also almost surely opt to shut down Chrysler's separate supply of engines, transmissions and powertrain components and merge those with its own.

    GM sees a retained Cerberus stake as helping to align the interests of finance company GMAC with sales for its brands including Chevrolet and Cadillac, helping to bridge a widening gap between GMAC and GM's more than 6,500 U.S. dealers.

    Cerberus bought a 51-percent stake in GMAC in 2006 from GM as the automaker looked to raise cash for its restructuring.

    But under Cerberus, GMAC has pulled back hard on its auto lending, restricting loans to the most credit-worthy borrowers and costing GM sales in an already tough market.

    GMAC has cited tough credit markets as a reason for the tighter standards. But many dealers see it as a tactic by Cerberus to exert pressure on GM at the bargaining table.

    "This is an area where you can say the costs of prevention are less than the costs of a cleanup," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, which receives support from the industry.

    Cole estimated that up to 2 million U.S. workers will see their jobs threatened in the event of a bankruptcy by GM or rival Ford Motor Co as the knock-on effect topples suppliers and other related companies.

    "I think there is a 90 percent chance that both parties will realize what has to be done and do whatever it takes," Cole told Reuters on Sunday.

    Morgan Stanley and Evercore Partners are representing GM, while JP Morgan Chase and Citgroup are advising Chrysler and Cerberus, according to a person familiar with the talks
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Last thing GM management needs is to merge with Chrysler and keep some of Chryslers divisions up and running. They have enough trouble with their business.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    There is a heck of a lot more to it than just 3 marques. This is so convoluted it could work out that GM ends up with $50 billion in cash in one month. $20 in loans from the government and $30 from a Cererbus swap of Chrysler for GMAC.

    But it is so hard to see what is there from the outside. How much will GMAC get from the government $700 billion transfer of wealth from our pockets to the financial companies? How much will a GM/Chrysler merged company get out of the $50 billion government loan for the domestic auto industry? What is GMAC really worth? Can Cerberbus make all/most of the dealer franchises go away before it is "sold" to GM. They already are cutting 30% of the white collars and perhaps they will cut even more before the handover. And what is the Ram truck worth to Nissan? How about the VW version of the minivan? Will it be pulled from VW by GM? How about the other partnerships Chrysler has made for vehicles that compete with GM? What is it worth to kill the competing models?

    This is one big spreadsheet that I surely cannot resolve w/o the data.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    China has the potential to produce about 45-49 billion gallons per year
    (BGPY) of cellulosic biofuels by 2030, given appropriate supporting
    economic incentives, according to presentations by both General Motors
    and Coskata at the 4th World Biofuels Symposium at Tsinghua University
    in Beijing, 19 - 21 October, 2008, organized by BBI International and
    with COFCO as the title sponsor.

    By comparison, the US Department of Energy’s Billion Ton Study estimates
    the annual biomass potential in the US at 1.33 billion tons by 2030 with
    an ethanol potential of 97.5 B gallons. A separate GM-University of
    Toronto study referenced by Lippert concluded that the US potential is
    0.625 – 1.2 billion tons, enough to produce 50 – 134 BGPY of ethanol.
    The current US Renewable Standard mandated by EISA 2007 calls for 36
    billion gallons of all biofuels by 2022, at least 16 billion gallons of
    which needs to be cellulosic biofuels.


    Coskata reports that the productivity of its fermenting bacteria
    (measured in grams of ethanol/liter/hour) have well surpassed its
    initial best case ($lt;$1/gallon). Inset chart shows data from January
    2008. Click to enlarge.
    Coskata. At the Platts Cellulosic Ethanol and Biofuels Conference in
    Chicago earlier in October, Coskata reported significant recent gains in
    the output (grams of ethanol per liter per hour) from its microorganisms
    that take it well below its early commercial target of an operational
    cost of The company declines to publish the actual
    production numbers for competitive reasons.

    GM and Biofuels in China. GM is pursuing a global energy strategy that
    includes improving the energy efficiency of existing motor fuels and
    developing alternative energy and alternative propulsion systems. The
    development and commercialization of sustainable biofuels, particularly
    non-food based, next-generation cellulosic ethanol, is an important and
    leading component of GM’s overall strategy. (Earlier post.) GM also
    identifies China as being among the first markets and production sites
    for alternative propulsion systems.

    GM said that it will continue to share with China the R&D results in the
    area of new energy from its research centers and partners around the
    world, including the R&D and market applications of next-generation,
    non-food based cellulosic ethanol. Chen said China can produce
    cellulosic ethanol on marginal lands from wood waste, energy crops such
    as switchgrass and even garbage, and China is in a good position to
    benefit from the development of such sustainable biofuels.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Looks like Chrysler will go bankrupt and sell the remainder to GM??

    If General Motors acquires Chrysler LLC, state franchise laws would
    impose tight limits on GM's ability to kill brands or dump large numbers
    of dealers.

    Under those laws, GM would have to honor Chrysler's dealer agreements
    and support its brands, franchise lawyers say. And if GM were to
    eliminate the Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep brands, the lawyers add, it would
    have to pay dealers for their investments.

    One more if: Should Chrysler declare bankruptcy as part of merger
    proceedings, franchise lawyers say, GM would have more freedom to trim
    Chrysler's dealership network.


    "You can't talk about the dealer network until something actually
    happens," GM spokeswoman Susan Garontakos said late last week. "It's all
    speculation right now."

    Many analysts predict that if the companies combine, GM would keep the
    Jeep brand and continue to supply Chrysler and Dodge dealers with
    vehicles, if only through badge engineering.

    Most state laws prevent automakers from yanking a franchise without
    "good cause," Charapp says. The laws generally require formal state
    proceedings when franchises are terminated, he says.

    At the same time, Charapp notes: "Bankruptcy law will trump state dealer
    franchise protection statutes. There is a legal basis in bankruptcy for
    a franchisor to turn its back on its dealer agreement obligations."

    When GM bought most of Daewoo's assets in 2000, the Korean automaker
    already had filed for bankruptcy. GM's purchase did not include Daewoo's
    U.S. distribution network. Daewoo's 501 U.S. dealers were left without
    product. GM renamed Daewoo models and sold them at U.S. Chevrolet and
    Suzuki dealerships.

    When an automaker eliminates a brand — as opposed to going bankrupt —
    dealers have more rights.

    Still, says Dan Goldberg, a Boston lawyer who represents automakers,
    most state franchise laws recognize that automakers must be allowed to
    adapt to changes in the marketplace.

    "The purpose of the laws is not to freeze in place existing dealer
    arrangements and locations as they existed at the time the statutes were
    enacted," Goldberg says.

    Some Chrysler LLC dealers say the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands are
    strong enough to survive a merger with GM. Others dealers are worried.

    "I'm very nervous," says Brian Hamilton, who sells GM and Chrysler
    brands in Kearney, Neb. "There's not much you can do when someone goes
    out of business. We'd all be faced with pretty major losses."

    Carlos Hoz de Vila, CEO of Condor Auto Group, concedes that some dealers
    would go out of business if GM and Chrysler merge. Condor, of suburban
    Philadelphia, owns eight dealerships, two of which sell Chrysler brands.

    Hoz de Vila says a GM-Chrysler merger would warrant federal oversight.

    "The government should make sure that the motives are pure," he says.
    "The merger should allow the companies to build better-quality product
    and serve the dealers better, not just allow GM to grab cash off
    Chrysler's balance sheet."

    Adds Hoz de Vila: "If the merger results in a stronger company, then it
    could be a positive."
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Again, GM, as all marques, have delayed as much as possible any engineering/investment for the next year to save money.

    The Pontiac G8 is one of General Motors’ freshest faces – at least here in America – but recent rumors have suggested that the superb sports sedan won’t be around in another five years. Pontiac has apparently heard enough from the rumor mill, and has decided to step in to clear things up.

    According to the Pontiac Under Ground blog, GM’s performance brand has no intentions of killing off the G8. Moreover, plans for two more G8-variants – the G8 GXP and G8 ST – are still on, with the high-performance GXP model expected to hit the market by year’s end.

    Despite the claim that the G8 is here to stay, the Australian-born sedan could still be on life support. The previous rumor had the G8 running its current life cycle, with no replacement planned beyond 2013. With stricter emissions regulations set to kick in right about that time, the G8 could still be a one and done, even if new models are planned over the next year and a half.

    The G8’s future seems hazy, at best, right now, so it’s pretty difficult to know for sure what GM has planned for its performance sedan. However, GM has developed a Buick model based on the G8 with a 2.0L turbo four for the Chinese market, so it’s quite possible new powerplants could keep the G8 alive in the U.S.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    To be down 81% in profit yet sales only down 10% means something is happening here. Honda has been doing relatively well because they sell very few larger vehicles. But it is pretty obvious that they were making a lot of their profit on the few larger/V6 vehicles they made and now that the cheaper, much less profitable Civic and 4 cylinder Accord are making up a much larger portion of their sales the profit has tanked. I think we will see a very bad quarter for GM and a very bad October.

    Despite Honda’s comparatively small drop in September sales - down just 1.1 percent - and increasing global demand for its products, the automaker’s operating profit fell nearly 81 percent in North America during the second quarter. Honda says that reduced demand - down 9.9 percent overall during the quarter - hurt its operating profit.
    Honda has revamped its North American production to focus more on the efficient Civic and four-cylinder Accord rather than its Odyssey minivan and Ridgeline pickup, but the automaker still expects 2008 to post a sales decline in North America.

    Honda expects North America to be the only market to decline in 2008 and current company estimates put the drop at about 6.6 percent lower than last year.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Profits are down but at least they are reporting profits and not losses. Plus Honda has the ability to reverse this trend rather quickly because of the flexibility they have in changing their production.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    To be down 81% in profit yet sales only down 10% means something is happening.

    A lot of businesses would have similar finanacial responses. Why you ask? Well the cost to manufacture anything depends on how many you make. Most of the costs Honda has are Fixed - meaning they still have to pay property taxes, R&D, payroll (they don't layoff), advertising, lights, administrative ... These are probably about 70% of their costs. The parts are the variable costs and if sales are down then the parts cost goes down.

    So a manufacturing company (or a restaurant) needs to sell X number of product to pay to open the doors. After that every item they sell is adding hugely to the profit. So it is those last 10% or so that affect the profit greatly.

    I think many in the Big 3 have failed to realize that as they cut operating costs & production each year, those legacy costs - pensions and benefits, become a larger cost/vehicle, on the remaining vehicles they sell.

    So the higher the Big 3's pension and health benefits become and the less vehicles they sell, the higher their costs go, they raise the prices, and voila they sell less, and on and on it goes, until they are losing $1B+/month AND losing market-share!

    It is too late to turn this around without bankruptcy, or unless the government gives them a blank check.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Agreed that a profit is a profit, but if it is down due to people "cheaping out" and buying less expensive versions of their vehicles, how do they reverse that trend??
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "GM will offer "something" in the future that will address the needs of full-size SUV owners."

    GM to kill full-size SUVs! Ah... not so fast...
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    You know, with the Suburban having been around since 1936, and being a derivitave of the truck, it would be foolish to drop it altogether. I mean, if the pickup market shrunk to what it was 25 years ago, there would still be a need for the Suburban, and I can't imagine it would cost all that much more to incorporate it into the truck assembly line.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I think many in the Big 3 have failed to realize that as they cut operating costs & production each year, those legacy costs - pensions and benefits, become a larger cost/vehicle, on the remaining vehicles they sell.

    So the higher the Big 3's pension and health benefits become and the less vehicles they sell, the higher their costs go, they raise the prices, and voila they sell less, and on and on it goes, until they are losing $1B+/month AND losing market-share!


    No, the big 3 has known this for awhile. As I have said this is one of the reasons there are no large manufacturing companies left in this country. All others have fired the US workers and either gone out of business or moved manufacturing overseas. The big 3 have done well vs. everyone else.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Now that is a decent solution IF they can get the towing capacity up.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    62,

    I had thought as I wrote my last post about crew cab pickups making the Suburban (and Tahoe) obsolete, but I believe there is value in that "closed bed" that the the pickups can't offer, even with a cap.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Easy, instead of making Ridgelines, Elements and Odysseys, they can produce more Civic LX, Civic hybrids or Accord LX.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "GMAC has been in discussions with the government on a multidimensional level," said GMAC spokeswoman Toni Simonetti. "We are interested in exploring options that are available to us through the federal government's tool kit

    Are they kidding? Because it isn't funny. The government doesn't have a "toolkit", it just has handing them our (taxpayers') money! :mad:

    None of the domestic automakers is "too big to fail" until they have proven that the bankruptcy court won't work for them.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    See, that's the problem. If, say they sold approx. 275,000 4 cyl Accords and 125,000 higher margin V-6 Accords, and now people are "cheaping out" this year and they sell say 225,000 fours and 60,000 sixes while the rest downgrade to a lower margin Civic, they still sell nearly as many cars and trucks, but profits suffer.

    Another way of looking at it. A loaded Pilot can reach over $40 grand. A loaded Tahoe, $50 g's. 2 people who own those say I don't need this big thing and dump them for a mid sized sedan. Pilot owner spends $24 grand on an Accord, Tahoe boy buys a Malibu for the same money. GM and Honda STILL make a sale, but they "lose" money, as these 2 may have bought a new SUV if the market was still ripe for that.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I am glad you saw the light! I know of a number of families that tow a trailer that the only vehicle really possible is a Suburban. 2 kids with luggage, etc. and they would not like throwing the stuff in a bed, even with a cap.

    I can easily see a unibody suburban if it can pull a large trailer. Now I also know a lot of families that get the sub's just for hauling the kids but I cannot believe how many Lambdas there are out there. They are everywhere.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I can easily see a unibody suburban if it can pull a large trailer. Now I also know a lot of families that get the sub's just for hauling the kids but I cannot believe how many Lambdas there are out there. They are everywhere.

    Yeah, I see lots of Lambdas too. Really, it you don't over 4000 lbs or so or need the ruggedness of a Tahoe, one the Lambda's makes a lot more sense.

    I wonder how much weight a unibody Suburban would save? A Tahoe only weighs about 300lbs more than a Mercedes GL450 that has a unibody is roughly the same size.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I wonder how much weight a unibody Suburban would save? A Tahoe only weighs about 300lbs more than a Mercedes GL450 that has a unibody is roughly the same size.

    If it's beefed up and used for towing, it would probably weigh more than a Suburban that was pure body-on-frame to begin with. A "true" unit-body vehicle would be utterly useless for anything heavy-duty, which is why so-called "unit-bodies" really aren't. Witness the Honda Ridgeline:
    image

    It's unit-body in the sense that the bed is integrated into the body...something that Ford tried unsuccessfully with pickup trucks back in the early 60's. And the front-end clip seems to hold itself together just fine without a frame underneath. But still, what's that ladder-looking thingie up underneath? Why, it's a FRAME!!

    I don't care what they want to market it as, but that sucker still screams "Body-On-Frame" to me! I'm sure any Suburban-type vehicle meant for heavy towing would have to have something similar slipped underneath it. And as long as they're still making full-sized pickups, might as well just keep basing it on the full-sized pickup. Most advantages of the unit-body decrease when you move towards bigger vehicles, anyway.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    So, I estimate the BOF SUV's will go away as we know them unless the hybrid technology improves to increase power and torque and meets CAFE. I believe you can get over 30 MPG from an advance electric system supported by a small ICE. Each motor would be an in-whell design producing 170 HP x4. I realize we are talking 20 years from now.

    Too bad no one is even planning this in any of the small 3 because they are on life support.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Andre, I agree with you. The Ridgeline looks like it has a unibody on top of the frame.

    For towing, BOF is the best way to go. I use to tow my 4500lb boat with an 01 Nissan Pathfinder, which at the time had what Nissan called a monoframe, basically a unitized on frame design. It was great for creating an extremely strong and tight chassis, but it had one major side effect when towing. No isolation from the trailer. I could fell everything the trailer was doing thru the entire vehicle. Every bump or vibration from the boat trailer was fed directly through the hitch and to the tow vehicle. That got old quick on long trips. Tough SUV though.

    Sometimes a little flex is good to provide isolation and a smooth(er) towing experience. Look at a semi that can have gross weights of 80k lbs. C channel frames. If they were tubed frames and unitized the frame would either break or beat the driver to death.

    As for a unibody type frame for a Suburban. I don't see it being able to save enough weight to drastically increase fuel economy. It would be a stretch to assume they could save 500lbs. What would that save, maybe 5%. Wow, it go from a 20mpg hwy to 21. The only way to really save weight is to either make it smaller, or use lighter materials, which is expensive.

    Really, if you look at the fuel economy of a Suburban/Expedition type vehicle, they don't get much poorer fuel economy vs. the midsize BOF (TrailBlazer/Explorer) or large crossover SUVs.
    CU reported 16mpg overall with a GMC Acadia, the Suburban was returned 14 overall. Yawn, that might cost $50 more per month. That difference will be even closer when GM starts offering the 6 speed trans in the Suburban. That should add another MPG to the Suburban.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    ...looks like it's a done deal!

    General Motors and Cerberus Capital Management, parent of Chrysler, have resolved the major issues in a proposed GM-Chrysler merger, though the final deal is dependent on financing and government support, unnamed sources told Reuters news service Wednesday.

    Reuters also picked up a story out of Japan that claims GM is expected to ask for Toyota's help in turning around its business, Kyodo News reported on Wednesday, citing sources familiar with the plan.

    A merged GM-Both sides have agreed that GM CEO Rick Wagoner would lead the combined automaker, the sources said. A merged GM/Chrysler would be the largest automaker by global vehicle sales.

    GM reportedly is seeking some $10 billion in U.S. government aid to support the deal.


    The report from Kyodo claims Wagoner is considering visiting Japan soon and meeting with Toyota's leadership to discuss the plan. The Kyodo news report said Toyota was expected to consider quick fixes for the cash-strapped GM, including buying up its assets and helping it secure sufficient business funds.

    Merger All But Final

    Imagine, GM asking Toyota for help! It's about time. Do you think he wants to discuss a NEW BUSINESS MODEL??

    Regards,
    OW
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    If this goes through, this will make for some interesting reading over the next few days. I better cancel some of my appointments so i have time to read all of this.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Absolutely, lot's of reading. The deal could be announced this week if financing is settled.

    Let's get ready to rumble!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    CU reported 16mpg overall with a GMC Acadia, the Suburban was returned 14 overall. Yawn, that might cost $50 more per month. That difference will be even closer when GM starts offering the 6 speed trans in the Suburban. That should add another MPG to the Suburban.

    Something wrong with that data but it is close. I drive strictly city and get 15 mpg. If I go on the expressway and reset the odo I can get 24 on long trips. My wife drives hers pretty mcuh 50/50 since she drives on an expressway to work and gets around 19 or so. No way a sub is gonna get close to that. When I do drive a sub in the city only I get around 12. Is that a big difference (12 vs 15)? I will leave that to others but it is a 25% improvement. And if you add some hybrid tech it can get quite a bit higher.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I agree hybrid tech is the way to go if the torque is high enough. Like I said, the game changes as the electric technology is developed.

    image

    The motors would be in all 4 wheels and can generate enough power for a Suburban to be both highly efficient and utilitarian. This version is a FWD Volvo concept.

    Here is the 4 wheel Mitsu concept in 3 possible configs.

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    When I do drive a sub in the city only I get around 12

    When I had a Suburban, the only time my fuel economy would be in the 12 range in the city was in the winter (more idling) I usually got 13-14 city 16-17 hwy, but that was a 2000 model. My 07 Expedition with a 6 speed trans usually gets 14 in town and 18-19hwy and it rated to tow 9000lbs. A crossover doesn't entice me for only 3-4 mpg with less room and much less towing capacity, but I use my SUV to tow. If it wasn't for our camper and boat, I'd drive a car or minivan if I needed the room.

    I took another look at CUs data. On the hwy segment they showed 24mpg for the Acadia, and 20 for the Suburban, but on the 150mile trip they take every vehicle they test on, they got 19 and a Suburban got 17 on the same trip.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    To me this makes sense. Early buyers are always buy loaded vehicles. The V6 will increase in the next year.

    We would guess that General Motors didn't see this one coming, but early reports indicate that out of 6,000 Camaro orders that the automaker has already received, 84 percent are for models powered by the massive V8 engine. This is a huge surprise, given that GM went to great lengths to ensure that its pony car was both just as stylish and an excellent performer in its standard V6-powered guise. That six cylinder engine is the same powerplant that sits under the Cadillac CTS's well-creased hood and produces something just north of 300-horsepower, which is more than enough to get the modern muscle car moving.

    There have been numerous people suggesting that the performance car era has officially come to an end. We're not ready to make an judgments based on 6,000 early adopters, but perhaps this just continues to prove that there will always be some number of consumers out there that are willing to pay a premium for performance. Our bet is that these numbers even themselves out over the next year and that the ratio of V6s to V8s adjusts to something more in line with what you'd expect. [Source: Camaro5]

    Go to: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/28/rumors-of-the-v8s-death-apparently-untru- e-84-of-camaros-are-s/
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Surely did not see this in the media.

    In Japan, the global financial crisis seems to have singled out some of the world's best-known and best-managed companies for an especially bloody thrashing.

    Consider Toyota Motor Corp., whose stock has lost almost two-thirds of its value since February of last year. Like many Japanese exporters, Toyota has been doubly clobbered this fall, first by collapsing consumer demand in the United States and Europe, and then by the exploding value of the yen against the dollar and the euro.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Toyota has also been hard hit by the fact that the Japanese car market has been dismal overall. They are getting the triple punch!

    Is it true that Rick Wagoner is on his way over there to ask Toyota for money and help getting GM's ship righted?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Reuters also picked up a story out of Japan that claims GM is expected to ask for Toyota's help in turning around its business, Kyodo News reported on Wednesday, citing sources familiar with the plan. An AutoObserver source suggested the report is overreaching."

    But "Toyota and the Japanese government are known to be fearful of the political ramifications that the demise of one or more of Detroit's automakers might have on Japan-U.S. trade, Japanese automakers and specifically Toyota." So they may offer to buy some of GMs assets.

    GM, Cerberus Still Talking About GM-Chrysler Combo (AutoObserver)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Yeah, it's been rough. Wish I owned VW stock. Since Porche has announced taking a larger stake in VW it created a short squeeze of an unimaginable magnitude and VW stock briefly went to over 1000 Euros/share. That's right, VW is our atleast was the largest company in world in terms of market cap value for a brief amount of time.

    It will drop back down, but those who were unfortunate enough to be shorting the stock when it was around 200 Euro's have been caught by the "short hairs" so to speak. Ouch.

    About a week ago I saw in BusinessWeek about VW surpassing Toyota in market cap. Hard to believe VW is worth that much.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    General Motors said Wednesday that its global sales fell 11.4 percent in the third quarter, increasing the likelihood that GM would lose its title as the world's largest automaker to Toyota this year.

    GM said it sold 2.11 million vehicles in the quarter, compared with 2.38 million a year ago, as slumping demand in North America and Europe offset smaller gains in other regions.

    For the year so far, GM has sold 6.65 million vehicles, almost 400,000 fewer than the 7.05 million vehicles that Toyota of Japan sold in the period.

    With sales plunging in North America, GM's international sales grew as a percentage of its overall volume.

    During the third quarter, GM sold 1.28 million vehicles outside of the United States, accounting for 61 percent of its total sales compared with 56 percent a year ago.

    We're No. 2

    I'm sure all of those international customers feel the same way about GM that some on this board feel about Toyota!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Is it true that Rick Wagoner is on his way over there to ask Toyota for money and help getting GM's ship righted?

    I read that. He is in Washington trying to work out a deal. Instead of going over to Japan why doesn't he just ask Jim Press? Oh yea, he is running Chrysler now.

    I think Cerberus did bring in Press and others to fix up Chrysler for sale in a couple years. But the s*** hit the fan and they gave that up. I wonder if Press will be gone in a week or so?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors Corp (GM.N) and Cerberus Capital Management (CBS.UL) have resolved the major issues in a proposed GM-Chrysler merger, but the final form of any deal would depend on the financing and government support available, sources familiar with the talks said on Wednesday.

    Both sides have agreed that GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner would lead the combined automaker, the sources said.

    A merged GM-Chrysler would be the largest automaker by global sales, but analysts have cautioned it would struggle to turn around the overlapping Detroit-based operations of two companies that have seen mounting losses tied to a global downturn in sales.

    Chrysler, now in a dead heat with Honda Motor Co (7267.T) for the No. 3 spot in the U.S. market, has been hardest hit by the slump because of its dependence on the U.S. market for some 90 percent of sales.

    Chrysler's sales have fallen 25 percent through September, while GM's sales are down 18 percent. Industry-wide sales are expected to drop near 30 percent in October.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    GMAC Financial Services, the troubled financial arm part-owned by
    General Motors Corp., will get federal help to access the locked-down
    commercial credit markets.

    A GMAC spokeswoman said Tuesday the company was recently granted access
    to new short-term funding facility created by the Federal Reserve to
    help alleviate the ongoing credit crisis.

    "We did apply and we were approved to participate," GMAC spokeswoman
    Gina Proia said, declining further comment. The development was first
    reported by Bloomberg News.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    just started using firefox and the bold/italics/etc. do not work. Any solution?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    My first year vehicle line up after working out issues:

    Chevrolet: add Dakota/Nitro/Sprinter/Caliber/Charger/Voyager, drop trailblazer/Colorado

    GMC/Buick/Pontiac/Chrysler/Jeep: add T & C, 300, Challenger, all Jeep, drop Canyon/Envoy,

    Cadillac/Saab: no change

    Saturn: one guess is that perhaps they will combine Saturn with Jeep but I doubt it.

    Sell the entire Ram/ full sizeSUV truck line to Nissan. If they do not sell it then make them GMC's and drop the old full size truck line at GMC. If they sell the full size truck line then there will be some issues with part sharing on the large Jeep so that would have to be worked out.

    Continue to try and find a buyer for Viper as Chrysler was doing. Hummer also.

    The above all hinges on how GM works out the dealer issues. So the above may not happen if the dealers need to keep their models but sooner or later there will be consolidation.

    In the long term, or perhaps bite the bullet today, revise the premium dealership line to an all new name while somehow keeping the traditional marques.

    Now I did not spend anytime looking at volumes and assumed what they were but I could be keeping some that just are not selling and others that are but I hope a pretty good guess.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    has happened so quickly, I wonder how the folks at Ford are feeling about it? We will stop using the "big 2.5" term and from now on it will just be the Big 2. Should Ford be quaking in its boots, or should they be quietly celebrating at the news of what will almost certainly destroy their largest competitor in the long run?

    This is sheer, desperate lunacy for GM.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    This is sheer, desperate lunacy for GM.

    I don't see it either. A merger does not get rid of the union-problems, the huge future pension costs, the supplier and dealer agreements, or the perception that most of the vehicles are rental image/quality.

    A merger will also require many of the workers in these 2 companies to take on extra work and projects to integrate these 2 organizations, AT the same time they are laying off a good percentage of the white-collar staff. Until they layoff these people, and everyone will be worried (writing their resumes and such). And I can't imagine there is much goodwill right now with the 401K-match being discontinued!

    I think this merger is going to be a temporary psychological boost for these companies making investors, taxpayers and workers feel like they have a chance. It is also a way to get government loans and other money thrown into their corporate pot. I firmly believe the intent of all this is to buy some time in which this money is going to be divvied up amongst the major players in this deal.

    Anyone want to guess how much Dan Quayle's going to make on this? Or his friends? Or the bonuses and stock options that will go around to the executives?

    In the end they will walk away with taxpayer money, they will leave the companies broke, and the taxpayers will assume the responsibility of the pensions.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    just started using firefox and the bold/italics/etc

    That's funny - I've been playing with IE8 Beta 2 and the IMG and URL buttons weren't working, and scrolling in 125% view wasn't smooth, so I switched my forum reading to Firefox.

    But yeah, the Italic is messed up for me in Firefox - I can't highlight text and hit the I button to italicize it. I have to hit the I button twice (to open and close the italics) and then paste the text in the brackets.

    It's always something - I'll pass this along. Check out Forums Software! Your Questions Answered... too.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Chevrolet: add Dakota/Nitro/Sprinter/Caliber/Charger/Voyager, drop trailblazer/Colorado

    Have you looked at a Caliber? The thing is a plastic factory inside. The Cobalt, though not any where near the civic is a better car than the Caliber. With the Aveo and Cobalt-why would Chevy need the Caliber?

    I haven't seen too many Nitros around. GM doesn't need all the Chrysler models. If Chrysler can't sell these cars, what makes you think GM can?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I was just looking at the size. Never been in one. Seems like a cool SUV type compact that some like. Is it not selling? At first I dropped the HHR but left it in since it should have a couple years left. But if the Caliber is that bad and not selling drop it.

    I thought I pretty much decimated the Chrysler products!! Tried to fill in holes at each dealer group. Like a Muscle retro for the premium group to counter the Camaro at the Chevy group. A midsize truck/SUV for Chevy. RWD large car for Chevy.

    And again in the future rationalize the line ups with common platforms/powertrains and drop more models. What to do with Hemi though? Sure would not put it in the Vette.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Do not know about Chrysler but the UAW is pretty much taken care of in both wages (2 years I believe for full effect) and health care (UAW supplies). Pensions at GM are over funded. Perception is correct but that is what needs to be changed because the product sure has.

    Execs will not get any bonus's unless they start showing a profit.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors’ Buick brand is in need of a freshening, which will come in the form of the next-generation LaCrossee. Although the next-gen LaCrosse has been put on hold for a few months, new details have surfaced on the near-luxury sedan, which should give us a pretty good idea of what to expect from the LaCrosse — whenever it finally takes the show stage.

    According to GM Inside News, the 2010 Buick LaCrosse will be offered with two powerplants – a base 3.0L V6 and an up-level 3.6L V6.

    The LaCrosse’s base motor is all-new for GM, but won’t be skimping on high-level features. The new powerplant will feature direct-injection, which will aid in both performance and fuel economy. Expect the 3.0L to produce 250 horsepower but still return about 30 mpg on the highway.

    The LaCrosse’s step-up motor will be a version of the Cadillac CTS’s 3.6L V6. It too will feature direct-injection, but will be slightly detuned from CTS-guise, putting out a still healthy 290 hp. Both powerplants will be mated to GM’s 6T70 six-speed automatic transmission.

    The LaCrosse is also set to feature a plethora of luxury content, such as HID headlamps, a rear-view camera and a heads-up display. All-wheel drive is also said to be part of the mix, but no word if the LaCrosse’s AWD option will be reserved for 3.6L cars.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Always click down one line before you highlight...the format buttons do not work on the first line.

    Regards,
    OW
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