I saw a Volt today, with "VOLT" in huge foot tall graphics on the side of it, not the sharpest decal I have ever seen.
I wonder if that was some kind of stupid dealer add on. I've seen a few volts on the road this year and I haven't noticed that. How tacky, the Volt is a $40k car not a cheap Grand Am.
How tacky, the Volt is a $40k car not a cheap Grand Am.
I remember back as a freshman in high school, walking home from the bus stop, just about every day a Chevette would pass by me. At the top of the windshield, in the area where the tint is, it had a big graphic that read "CHEVETTE".
I used to think dude, do you REALLY want to draw attention to that?
It must be dealer installed - I can't find it on any image searches, but it stuck out to me, like the lame "Hybrid" deals on the SUVs.
I knew a girl when I was in school who bought a (nearly) new car to replace her dying 80s Mustang - she chose a blue Grand Am with pretty bad 90s style wheels and "Pontiac" in big letters on the rear quarter panels. Class.
It must be dealer installed - I can't find it on any image searches, but it stuck out to me, like the lame "Hybrid" deals on the SUVs.
Yeah, that was horrible and they came from the factory like that. If I was actually dumb enough to buy one of those new, those decals would have been removed prior to leaving the dealership.
While evidence mounts that consumer demand for the Volt is not what it was projected to be, GM continues to blame supply rather than demand for the dismal sales performance.
The lack of demand for the Chevy Volt is not a well kept secret. The all-electric Nissan Leaf outsold the Volt by a margin of over 4-1 as it appears that GM overestimated the importance of curing "range anxiety." Reports are surfacing that confirm the fact that the Volt is not going over well with the average consumer. This has not influenced the tone of GM's rhetoric. (Arrogance?). It seems that the philosophy of the leaders at GM is to fool the majority of Americans, which are not paying attention, into believing that the Chevy Volt is a huge success.
Yeah, same here. The economics of the Volt just doesn't work and I don't know that they've got a situation right now where they can afford a halo car that no one buys.
I'd take a Cruze any day of the week with the prices what they are.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Cruze lease is $159 and you can seat 5, Volt is $349 for 4 seats.
I wonder if it would have done better badged as a Cadillac for the launch, though? The price would not be off-putting. In fact it would be almost entry level once the $7500 was factored in.
They'll still come out with one, but the problem is they'll have to price it a decent amount above the Volt.
IMHO is would be easier to lease a Cadillac for, say, $419, vs. leasing a Chevy at $349.
EV-only range is much less, at just 14.3 miles. But our new garage installed charging stations, so that could be 14 miles each way. At 1.5 hours for a full charge you could even top off while having lunch, if a charge station is available.
So the plug-in Prius would be cheaper to operate if your commute is 14 miles or less, and again once you cross the 35 mile range of the Volt.
That leaves a narrow target for the Volt - it would only be more efficient if your commute is more than 14 miles but less than 35 miles:
>I wonder if it would have done better badged as a Cadillac for the launch, though? The price would not be off-putting.
That's a very good point. I suspect the bean counters were behind choosing to place it as Chevrolet rather than Cadillac with some upgrades. The tenet would be a substantially larger number of sales saying it's a Chev.
I believe the pricing is the major problem. They were not able to price it at below cost, as a halo car, and sell at a loss. They could have done that if GM were a private company. But because the Gov. is involved, they had to price it to, hopefully, make money over a certain period of time in the projections.
>IMHO is would be easier to lease a Cadillac for, say, $419, vs. leasing a Chevy at $349.
To me, your point is validated even more by the popularity of the CT version of the Prius sold as a Lexus. A different set of buyers, completely.
A third point is that Ford is using a commercial to point out GM's connection with the Gov. (or is it the Gov.'s connection with GM) with a 150 owner saying they didn't like bailouts. But that person is probably using financial companies who were bailed out.
Took the Malibu in for its first tire rotation and they had a Volt and a Sonic hatch in the showroom (Serpentini Chevrolet, Tallmadge, OH). I've seen Volts on the road and on transport carriers, but never up-close. I think it looks a hell of a lot nicer outside and in than a Prius, but being a cheapskate I can't justify that $41K price.
The Sonic underwhelmed me...but I'd much-prefer the regular sedan to that sawed-off hatchback. $16K for an LS automatic, 25/35 mpg ratings. The interior was a funky cloth that looked like somebody spilled something on it...that was in the design. Maybe the LT and LTZ will be better inside (probably).
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Just on general principles I hate to see the Crown Vic go.
"Ford is trying to corporate fleet operators on various alternative models as replacements -- from Transit Connect vans for taxi services to Lincoln MKT crossovers to limousine operators."
What do they figure to talk police departments into? Taurus I guess.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
After rebate it's around $33K base. Getting more like it but I'd still take the Cruze. I'm eager to see how a diesel Cruze works out.
One of the local churches does one of those 6 cars, limited number of tickets for $100 deals. Actually started out as 8 cars and over the years the number of cars has dwindled and the number of total tickets has slightly increased. Anyway, this year it is various Fords. One each of a Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Escape, Edge and a V6 Mustang coupe with an automatic.
If I win one of those I would bet I'd sell and take the money. Some of that may be related to the fact that I won't need a car for a few months but most is is that what I really want. nothing wrong with any of them but I'd like trading to say the Mustang as a convertible with a stick or the Fusion to a hybrid.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I have a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - the Crown Vic's slightly prettier sister. I'm sure used examples of Crown Vics and Grand Marquises will be highly sought after by those whose still appreciate a big solid body-on-frame car.
Not a surprise for me. Since it's the best Caddy in years, elder customers who want premium US steel are going to choose the CTS since it has the room and far more efficiency than it's predecessors. Given it's not a boat, I'll bet some of the customers were surprised regarding driving dynamics as well as far less stops for refueling needs!
Does anyone know the age demographic for Caddy these days? Looks like Buick might be passed up by Lincoln or Caddy soon by those that are wiser and richer!
One reason the average age of Buick buyers is dropping is that Lucerne production ended in June. Sales of the Regal are also bringing the average down, and sales of the Verano, which is coming in the fall, are expected to accelerate that trend.
By the way, in terms of brands preferred by old folks, Buick is first at 57.5%, Lincoln is second at 47.7%, Cadillac is third at 44%, Chrysler is fourth at 36.1%, GMC is fifth at 32.4% and Chevrolet is sixth at 31.2%.
Buick used to be #1 in Quality at one time. I believe the Enclave is bringing the brand lower.
The 2011 Buick Enclave reliability score of 6.0 out of 10 is the Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and Associates. This score is based on trending the past three years of historical initial quality and dependability data from J.D. Power's automotive studies, specifically the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) and the Initial Quality Study (IQS).
The Azera caught me a little but only because I didn't think it sold enough to make a ripple. But with that high a percentage of old folks buying them it's gotta be on the list.
I can understand the appeal.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I read about a month or so ago a few of the Caprices got into the hands of private citizens. Story is these folks found a loophole somehow and were able to order them through the dealer and paid for them - Chevrolet / GM found out and closed the hole.
I wonder if they did the old COPO thing...but more importantly if the story is actually true. :confuse:
I think Ford is wise to point out that they aren't in the same classless group as GM'
I dunno...it always gives me a bad vibe when someone tries to make their product look good by pointing out someone elses shortcomings. Kinda like if Chevy said "Buy our Vega! At least it won't blow like a Pinto if get gets rammed in the rear!"
It's one thing to say you have more horsepower, better fuel economy, back seat legroom, or scored tops in JD power ratings, or whatever, but when you point out someone else's shortcomings, it's like saying "We don't suck as bad as they do".
In Chevy's old ads, they would never mention the competitor by name...although you always knew it was Ford. It was always "Chevy's nearest sales competitor".
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
it's like saying "We don't suck as bad as they do".
Exactly so. I think Ford is far better off touting their product. Everybody knows the score. It either bothers them or it doesn't and they'll make their choices accordingly.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
It was a 2LT silver for mid-high 17's. About $3000 less than a loaded Cruze that was $20,900. Both were 6 speed autos. The Sonic specs are close to a Mazda3. Mazda has 1.5 cu ft more interior volume. foot and head room are within a quarter of an inch either way. Mazda3 i Touring stickers for $19,745 but only has a 5 spd auto. The Sonic engine is 10% smaller and has 7% less power but the extra gear might be the equalizer.
Was that Sonic 2LT a hatch or sedan? I just can't get past the hatch's styling. Like the sedan a lot better, but only saw one at the Cleveland Auto Show earlier this year.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
For the most part, I think small cars look better as a hatchback, anyway. I've only seen the Sonic in pictures, and the sedan actually doesn't look too bad. But I think the hatch seems to work better.
Coming back from Utah the other day, I spotted a new Sonic hatchback. IMO the headlights look kinda funky but the rest of the car was just alright. It was red and had some funky-[non-permissible content removed] decals on the sides. Much too small for my needs, but I think it will sell well alongside the new Fiesta, though I think that particular car looks a bit better. Instead of playing "Slug Bug" my wife and I kept count of new '11 Jeep Grand Cherokees. We counted 34! Much more than any Bugs, Cruzes, or new Explorers. Did see a slew of new Durangos, though. As far as comfort and ease of driving, our new '11 GC did very well, better than the 4Runner we had previously. Though the DIC said, at one time, a high of 26.1 mpg, I did the math and came up with 23.6 for a high of 11 fill-ups. Not bad considering the crap my wife packed. And then, coming back, she made me stop at a Rock Shop. She bought about 15 lbs. of pretty rocks. As if that wasn't bad enough, she made me pull over on the side of the road in Brian Head, UT, where she pillaged 2 large stones. I told her they were river rocks placed there for drainage purposes, but she wouldn't hear it. I tell you, the things we husbands do to keep our marriages happy! We had a great trip and we both fell in love with that part of our great country. I'm ready to go back!
sedan. I wonder if 2LT is the trim level to get alloy rims from Chevy, regardless of the car.
Wore my self out today washing and waxing cars. With manning out, I skipped out of watching most of the Colts game. Today they were underdogs to a team that has lost 5 in a row.
Comments
Weren't they the ones putting the psychedelic flower stickers on their VW Bugs and buses?
Funny the Volt ever made it, all things considered.
I saw a Volt today, with "VOLT" in huge foot tall graphics on the side of it, not the sharpest decal I have ever seen.
I wonder if that was some kind of stupid dealer add on. I've seen a few volts on the road this year and I haven't noticed that. How tacky, the Volt is a $40k car not a cheap Grand Am.
I remember back as a freshman in high school, walking home from the bus stop, just about every day a Chevette would pass by me. At the top of the windshield, in the area where the tint is, it had a big graphic that read "CHEVETTE".
I used to think dude, do you REALLY want to draw attention to that?
No kidding.
I knew a girl when I was in school who bought a (nearly) new car to replace her dying 80s Mustang - she chose a blue Grand Am with pretty bad 90s style wheels and "Pontiac" in big letters on the rear quarter panels. Class.
1 diesel engine.
1 gas engine.
1 electric engine.
Hybrid x 3!
You use the deisel and electric on the highway for eco mileage, and turn on the gas engine for the track and twisties!
LOL. Nevermind the weight disadvantages.
Yeah, that was horrible and they came from the factory like that. If I was actually dumb enough to buy one of those new, those decals would have been removed prior to leaving the dealership.
There's a local Volt that has a decal that EVERY Volt owner should get.
It's a bumper sticker that says "NOT a Prius!"
I see it at least once a week, and I still
While evidence mounts that consumer demand for the Volt is not what it was projected to be, GM continues to blame supply rather than demand for the dismal sales performance.
lol, supply...
1900 units on the ground
The lack of demand for the Chevy Volt is not a well kept secret. The all-electric Nissan Leaf outsold the Volt by a margin of over 4-1 as it appears that GM overestimated the importance of curing "range anxiety." Reports are surfacing that confirm the fact that the Volt is not going over well with the average consumer. This has not influenced the tone of GM's
rhetoric. (Arrogance?). It seems that the philosophy of the leaders at GM is to fool the majority of Americans, which are not paying attention, into believing that the Chevy Volt is a huge success.:sick:
I'd take a Cruze any day of the week with the prices what they are.
I wonder if it would have done better badged as a Cadillac for the launch, though? The price would not be off-putting. In fact it would be almost entry level once the $7500 was factored in.
They'll still come out with one, but the problem is they'll have to price it a decent amount above the Volt.
IMHO is would be easier to lease a Cadillac for, say, $419, vs. leasing a Chevy at $349.
The plug-in Prius may end up being cross-shopped.
EV-only range is much less, at just 14.3 miles. But our new garage installed charging stations, so that could be 14 miles each way. At 1.5 hours for a full charge you could even top off while having lunch, if a charge station is available.
So the plug-in Prius would be cheaper to operate if your commute is 14 miles or less, and again once you cross the 35 mile range of the Volt.
That leaves a narrow target for the Volt - it would only be more efficient if your commute is more than 14 miles but less than 35 miles:
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/14/2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-hybrid-frankfurt-20- 11/
The plug-in Prius will also be at least $3500 cheaper.
Volt performs better, though not by much.
I say wait for the diesel Cruze if you want a fuel miser from GM, the economics on that may actually make sense.
End of An Era
That's a very good point. I suspect the bean counters were behind choosing to place it as Chevrolet rather than Cadillac with some upgrades. The tenet would be a substantially larger number of sales saying it's a Chev.
I believe the pricing is the major problem. They were not able to price it at below cost, as a halo car, and sell at a loss. They could have done that if GM were a private company. But because the Gov. is involved, they had to price it to, hopefully, make money over a certain period of time in the projections.
>IMHO is would be easier to lease a Cadillac for, say, $419, vs. leasing a Chevy at $349.
To me, your point is validated even more by the popularity of the CT version of the Prius sold as a Lexus. A different set of buyers, completely.
A third point is that Ford is using a commercial to point out GM's connection with the Gov. (or is it the Gov.'s connection with GM) with a 150 owner saying they didn't like bailouts. But that person is probably using financial companies who were bailed out.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Sonic underwhelmed me...but I'd much-prefer the regular sedan to that sawed-off hatchback. $16K for an LS automatic, 25/35 mpg ratings. The interior was a funky cloth that looked like somebody spilled something on it...that was in the design. Maybe the LT and LTZ will be better inside (probably).
That point about releasing the Volt as a Caddy is really good. I think there's a huge "$40K+ for a Chevy?" thing going on. Heck, that's how I feel.
I will say if I won a Volt in a church raffle or something I'd absolutely keep it which is more than I can say about a whole host of other cars.
"Ford is trying to corporate fleet operators on various alternative models as replacements -- from Transit Connect vans for taxi services to Lincoln MKT crossovers to limousine operators."
What do they figure to talk police departments into? Taurus I guess.
I think it's fine to tout their own strength, but hold the cheap shots.
What's the price after the government rebate?
>I will say if I won a Volt in a church raffle or something I'd absolutely keep it
I was even willing to accept a Corolla if I won a raffle here at the school for a fundraiser a couple of years back.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One of the local churches does one of those 6 cars, limited number of tickets for $100 deals. Actually started out as 8 cars and over the years the number of cars has dwindled and the number of total tickets has slightly increased. Anyway, this year it is various Fords. One each of a Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Escape, Edge and a V6 Mustang coupe with an automatic.
If I win one of those I would bet I'd sell and take the money. Some of that may be related to the fact that I won't need a car for a few months but most is is that what I really want. nothing wrong with any of them but I'd like trading to say the Mustang as a convertible with a stick or the Fusion to a hybrid.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/16/toyota-plug-in-prius-priced-at-32-000-prius-v- -starts-at-26-40/
$32k, so $29.5k once you factor in the credit.
The Volt is $33k, so there's a $3500 premium for it, and it's smaller. May be a tough sell.
I think these will be cross-shopped a lot.
Of course whoever chose an SUV as a taxi should be shot...
The killer is if I bought a Buick now GM would hate that because I'd bring their average buyer age up!
Impressive videos, such a small car absorbing so much punishment with no harm to the passengers.
Also gets 29/40 EPA numbers, which are competitive.
Odd that the Cruze Eco manages 42mpg, though.
Not a surprise for me. Since it's the best Caddy in years, elder customers who want premium US steel are going to choose the CTS since it has the room and far more efficiency than it's predecessors. Given it's not a boat, I'll bet some of the customers were surprised regarding driving dynamics as well as far less stops for refueling needs!
Does anyone know the age demographic for Caddy these days? Looks like Buick might be passed up by Lincoln or Caddy soon by those that are wiser and richer!
One reason the average age of Buick buyers is dropping is that Lucerne production ended in June. Sales of the Regal are also bringing the average down, and sales of the Verano, which is coming in the fall, are expected to accelerate that trend.
By the way, in terms of brands preferred by old folks, Buick is first at 57.5%, Lincoln is second at 47.7%, Cadillac is third at 44%, Chrysler is fourth at 36.1%, GMC is fifth at 32.4% and Chevrolet is sixth at 31.2%.
Buick used to be #1 in Quality at one time. I believe the Enclave is bringing the brand lower.
The 2011 Buick Enclave reliability score of 6.0 out of 10 is the Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and Associates. This score is based on trending the past three years of historical initial quality and dependability data from J.D. Power's automotive studies, specifically the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) and the Initial Quality Study (IQS).
Regards,
OW
I can understand the appeal.
I read about a month or so ago a few of the Caprices got into the hands of private citizens. Story is these folks found a loophole somehow and were able to order them through the dealer and paid for them - Chevrolet / GM found out and closed the hole.
I wonder if they did the old COPO thing...but more importantly if the story is actually true. :confuse:
There was nothing CHEAP about the bailouts.
I think Ford is wise to point out that they aren't in the same classless group as GM.
I dunno...it always gives me a bad vibe when someone tries to make their product look good by pointing out someone elses shortcomings. Kinda like if Chevy said "Buy our Vega! At least it won't blow like a Pinto if get gets rammed in the rear!"
It's one thing to say you have more horsepower, better fuel economy, back seat legroom, or scored tops in JD power ratings, or whatever, but when you point out someone else's shortcomings, it's like saying "We don't suck as bad as they do".
Exactly so. I think Ford is far better off touting their product. Everybody knows the score. It either bothers them or it doesn't and they'll make their choices accordingly.
Instead of playing "Slug Bug" my wife and I kept count of new '11 Jeep Grand Cherokees. We counted 34! Much more than any Bugs, Cruzes, or new Explorers. Did see a slew of new Durangos, though.
As far as comfort and ease of driving, our new '11 GC did very well, better than the 4Runner we had previously. Though the DIC said, at one time, a high of 26.1 mpg, I did the math and came up with 23.6 for a high of 11 fill-ups. Not bad considering the crap my wife packed. And then, coming back, she made me stop at a Rock Shop. She bought about 15 lbs. of pretty rocks. As if that wasn't bad enough, she made me pull over on the side of the road in Brian Head, UT, where she pillaged 2 large stones. I told her they were river rocks placed there for drainage purposes, but she wouldn't hear it. I tell you, the things we husbands do to keep our marriages happy!
We had a great trip and we both fell in love with that part of our great country. I'm ready to go back!
Wore my self out today washing and waxing cars. With manning out, I skipped out of watching most of the Colts game. Today they were underdogs to a team that has lost 5 in a row.